Shapiro supports vouchers. That makes him a no for me.

[Nevilledog]

https://apnews.com/article/school-choice-voucher-josh-shapiro-pennsylvania-governor-2e4f893b76efa1c5919c7fe482f950d0

[Emile]

1. That would kill support from unions.

[Jose Garcia]

14. PA's state teachers' union backed Shapiro

https://www.psea.org/issues-action/key-issues/key-issue-school-safety/covid-19/keeping-connected-newsletter/week-of-8.1.2022/

[Emile]

17. What choice did they have?

Last edited Wed Jul 24, 2024, 04:33 PM - Edit history (1)

He ran unopposed.

[Cha]

67. TY!

[BlueTsunami2018]

23. My union is super tight with Josh.

At the meeting last night, our BM said it was very likely Shapiro will be the choice, which is a huge boon for us. We get along great with him and his office.

[Emile]

26. What's the name of your union?

[BlueTsunami2018]

31. Local 98 I.B.E.W.

Electrical workers.

We’re the ones who help get the vote out for Democrats in Philadelphia.

[Emile]

46. Don't look like they care for him.

https://whyy.org/articles/after-a-few-rocky-years-ibew-local-98-has-more-campaign-cash-than-ever/

[BlueTsunami2018]

47. Well, being that I'm a member.

And a steward, I think I know a bit more about it. We have a great relationship with him.

That article is from 2022.

[Emile]

53. Did you read the article?

From the article

In the gubernatorial race, the question of which candidate to fund is, seemingly, less complicated: Attorney General Josh Shapiro is running unopposed for the Democratic nomination.

But Shapiro has also taken a harder line on Local 98 than most people in Pennsylvania politics.

Continued at the above posted link.

[BlueTsunami2018]

57. I did, two years ago.

You have to understand what was going on at the time. He had to be standoffish because of some legal issues that our previous business manager had. Once he was gone we repaired the relationship and are now very close allies.

[Wiz Imp]

64. BlueTsunami2018 says they are a steward for the union

I would trust what a union steward for that union is telling me over some random 2 year old newspaper article.

[Emile]

68. As a father of a union public high school teacher

I take this charter school funding seriously.

[Fiendish Thingy]

2. Unfortunately, I agree.

This is but one of the minuses that subtract from his strength in helping win PA.

[polichick]

3. That, and the last thing we need is the war back in the spotlight...

Shapiro is a talented politician but not right for this imo.

[tritsofme]

5. The war would be in the "spotlight" because he is.....Jewish?

[polichick]

8. Because of his positions/statements about protests at the time.

[tritsofme]

9. Uh-huh.

[polichick]

11. Google is your friend ;)

[tritsofme]

12. The OP may be a good reason to oppose his candidacy, making pretenses to reject him because he is a Jew

is something else entirely.

[Behind the Aegis]

36. Lots of (((sad))) abounds around the conjecture that Shapiro could be the VP.

Some things NEVER change.

[tritsofme]

43. They are not fooling anyone at all.

[Behind the Aegis]

44. No, but they love their propaganda, games, strawman, and other logical fallacies.

It is as it has been for centuries.

[Sky Jewels]

37. The only reason someone would oppose a pro-Gaza genocide candidate is because they're Jewish, huh?

What utter B.S. You can pretend that opposition to Netanyahu's genocide is anti-Semitic, but everyone sees through that nonsense. Plus, it's been many months. It's getting quite old. Also, it's very insulting to the many, many, many Jewish people who vigorously oppose the fascist war criminal Netanyahu's policies, including Bernie Sanders and Jerry Nadler.

[Celerity]

81. the poster's correct that it could create a flashpoint due to his statements and actions on the war & protests

The One Vice Presidential Pick Who Could Ruin Democratic Unity

Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro is a leading candidate to be Kamala Harris’s running mate. Selecting him would fracture the party.

https://newrepublic.com/article/184151/one-vice-president-ruin-democratic-unity-josh-shapiro

snip

Unfortunately, Shapiro also stands out among the current field of potential running mates as being egregiously bad on Palestine. It’s not just that he, like many Democrats, is an outspoken supporter of Israel—though he certainly is, having championed Israel’s war against Hamas consistently and without any apparent concern for Palestinian civilians. Shapiro has, moreover, done far more than most Democrats to attack pro-Palestine antiwar demonstrators, in ways that call into question his basic commitment to First Amendment rights. In his previous role as Pennsylvania attorney general, Shapiro championed the state’s constitutionally dubious anti-BDS (boycott, divestment, sanctions) law against Ben & Jerry’s after the ice cream maker refused to license its product for sale in Israeli settlements. “BDS is rooted in antisemitism,” Shapiro wrote in a statement in 2021, as he condemned a company named for its two Jewish American founders. “The stated goal of this amorphous movement is the removal of Jewish citizens from the region and I strongly oppose their efforts.”

As governor, Shapiro’s particular animus against pro-Palestine activism has only grown more apparent and troubling. Last December, he played an active role in the GOP-orchestrated sacking of University of Pennsylvania President Liz Magill. During a visit to Goldie, the popular Philadelphia restaurant co-owned by the Israeli-born celebrity chef Michael Solomonov, Shapiro condemned Magill’s testimony on alleged antisemitism on the Ivy League campus before Representative Elise Stefanik, the MAGA right’s grand inquisitor. “That was an unacceptable statement from the president of Penn,” Shapiro said, referring to Magill’s unwillingness to accept Stefanik’s slippery framing on what constitutes antisemitism. “Frankly, I thought her comments were absolutely shameful. It should not be hard to condemn genocide.” Magill resigned four days after her testimony and three days after Shapiro’s statement, legitimizing the GOP’s wider assault on academic freedom, which would be repeated successfully against Harvard President Claudine Gay weeks later.

In April, Shapiro’s office baselessly claimed that a peaceful pro-Palestine encampment on the Penn campus threatened student safety. “If the universities in accordance with their policies can’t guarantee the safety and security and well-being of the students, then I think it is incumbent upon a local mayor or local governor or local town councilor, whoever is the local leadership there, to step in and enforce the law,” Shapiro told Politico at the time. In May, he urged Penn to shut down the encampment completely. “The University of Pennsylvania has an obligation to their safety,” he said, once again alluding to nonexistent threats to the physical well-being of Jewish students. “It is past time for the university to act, to address this, to disband the encampment, and to restore order and safety on campus.” The university complied; one day and 33 arrests later, Shapiro’s office said Penn “made the right decision.”

That same week, The New York Times profiled Shapiro as one to watch in his party with the headline “A Rising Democrat Leans Into the Campus Fight Over Antisemitism.” In that piece, Shapiro made clear the low regard in which he holds pro-Palestine campus activists. “If you had a group of white supremacists camped out and yelling racial slurs every day, that would be met with a different response than antisemites camped out, yelling antisemitic tropes,” he told the Times. (This echoed a statement made in an earlier interview in which he compared campus protesters to the Ku Klux Klan.) Then, in an executive order, Shapiro updated his administration’s code of conduct to forbid state employees from engaging in “scandalous or disgraceful” behavior, a vaguely worded instruction that civil libertarians immediately interpreted as threatening pro-Palestine speech.

snip

[lapucelle]

89. A flashpoint for whom?

From your link:

For rank-and-file leftists, however, any goodwill Biden might have banked on domestic policy had long since been squandered. [... ] These activists never wanted Trump to return to power and, for the most part, understood he would be at least as bad as Biden on Palestine—and worse on everything else. Still, it was impossible to muster any grassroots enthusiasm for reelecting “Genocide Joe”

snip------------------------------------

Shapiro is an observant Jew with personal ties to Israel; on October 7, he tweeted, “Our family has shared many special moments in Israel and our hearts break for those living this horror now.” If selected as Harris’s running mate and subsequently elected, he would become the first Jewish vice president in American history (a distinction narrowly missed by the late Joe Lieberman when Republicans stole the 2000 election).

https://newrepublic.com/article/184151/one-vice-president-ruin-democratic-unity-josh-shapiro

[obamanut2012]

27. What war?

[obamanut2012]

28. What war?

[obamanut2012]

29. What war?

[obamanut2012]

25. The US is not at war with anyone

[Jerry2144]

4. Same here but

The Convicted Felon is a bigger no for me. I’m eagerly voting for VPOTUS Harris no matter who her veep is. We can’t afford to let the Felon back in the White House and must keep as many Trumpies out of other offices we can.

I’m still voting for her even is she picks a moldy tuna sandwich as running mate

[BlueKota]

60. Same. I could probably find a few issues that I disagree

with other Democrats on. However to quote Stephanie Miller, I don't hate them, "with the heat of a thousand white hot suns," like I hate Donald Trump and all the magats in magatville.

Concentrate on beating the fascists in our own country until after the election. Infight and worry about other countries after, because if the orange asshole wins it's not going to be good for any of us or our allies over seas.

[Ocelot II]

6. Vice presidents don't make policy; they support the policies of the president.

Whether he supported school vouchers as a governor is pretty irrelevant to what he might bring to the ticket. If he can bring Pennsylvania that's a very big deal. All of the likely choices probably have things about them that some of us won't like, and I trust Harris and her advisors to choose someone who will bring the most to the ticket and who could best act as president if that became necessary. If she chooses Shapiro will you not vote for her?

[GPV]

16. I'll vote for her, but as a public school educator, this smarts.

[Nevilledog]

24. I will absolutely vote for her. That doesn't mean I support Shapiro as VP choice.

[Cha]

69. TY!

[Beachnutt]

7. Hmmm, He talks about investing in public schools here

?feature=shared

[Big Blue Marble]

10. I hope this takes him out of consideration.

It is a very divisive issue in our Party, especially to the teachers' union.

[Emile]

13. Exactly, it's not freedom taking money away from public schools

and giving it to private charter schools.

[pwb]

15. We want to win right? We are a big tent of many thoughts.

Whoever helps us win is who I want.

[Captain Zero]

61. So how much did Lieberman help Gore?

In the south?

Clinton and Gore started some democratic inroads into the south. Then it all was lost in 2000

We have recent success in VA and NC.

I vote for Harris+vp regardless, but realistically it might be asking a lot in the south. Unless it's ok to just write it all off.

[pwb]

65. Did I mention names or areas?

Not following how I triggered your response.

[republianmushroom]

18. Believe he is history. IMO

[gab13by13]

19. Your article is from January 2023.

Here is an update I got from my web pilot,

Governor Josh Shapiro has shown support for charter schools, but his stance is nuanced. Recently, he proposed a budget that includes significant cuts to cyber charter school funding, aiming to save public schools about $262 million annually1. This move has been praised by public school officials but has caused concern among cyber charter school administrators1.

If that's his big flaw I'm OK with it since he seems to be fixing his flaw.

Find something more significant for me to investigate.

[Nevilledog]

62. That's when the budget was being discussed.

[BootinUp]

20. I couldn't care less who VP Harris selects or is convinced

To select by our overlords. But I just want to point out that positions a D party State official has taken mean very little in terms of what he will do as a VPOTUS candidate or VP.

[madaboutharry]

21. He ended up vetoing the bill but seemed to have made an unnecessary problem for himself.

This wasn't a good look at all. The possibility that his support for vouchers could have been tied to a big money donor is further evidence of the need for campaign finance reform.

However, this isn't a deal breaker for me. I can name things that bother me about every politician. That is why it is called politics. (FWIW, I like Mark Kelly.)

From the article at the link in the OP:

In the end, House Democratic opposition prompted Shapiro to agree to veto the $100 million program from wider budget legislation — drawing angry recriminations from Republicans and school choice allies.

Yass, in a letter published by The Wall Street Journal, accused Shapiro of flip-flopping, siding with “radical education activists,” throwing poor children “under the bus” and “cowering before his union financiers.”

The episode has left an uneasy feeling among both voucher opponents and advocates. In an interview last month with WURD radio in Philadelphia, Shapiro shrugged off the fallout.

[Nevilledog]

77. He's getting push back

Link to tweet

Beth Lewis, SOSAZ 🆘 🏜🎓
@AZBethLewis
·
Follow
👏🏽👏🏿👏🏻 A broad coalition of public ed advocacy groups across the US - and ALL battleground states - OPPOSE a VP nomination for PA Gov. @JoshShapiroPA due to his position on #vouchers

Read the letter to @KamalaHarris ➡️ http://bit.ly/NoShapiroVP
Image
Image
1:53 PM · Jul 24, 2024

[Emile]

78. +1

[madaboutharry]

79. That is something to take very seriously.

It may actually turn out to be the thing that takes him out of consideration.

[videohead5]

22. Well, what if Harris losses

Pennsylvania because he was for a small voucher program. Sorry, no one is going to be perfect on every issue and this will have no bearing on what happens in a Harris Presidency.

[Nanjeanne]

35. We can't win PA without a VP from that state? Our policies won't win voters? Or support of

workers rights, middle class, voting rights, healthcare? Obama won PA. Hillary lost rural white PA. Beshear, Cooper, Walz can all talk to that constituency I think.

[videohead5]

52. I want Kamala

To have the best chance to win. When a second Trump term is staring down at us, I don't want to take chances.

[Nanjeanne]

56. Then don't lose Michigan

[Sky Jewels]

30. The more I learn about Shapiro, the less I like him.

Picking him would be a terrible error for the Harris campaign, IMO.

[BlueTsunami2018]

38. What exactly are you learning that you don't like?

He’s pretty popular in the state and he’s a great ally to the building trade unions here.

He vetoed the school vouchers thing.

[Sky Jewels]

40. Support for Netanyahu's genocidal response, his protester criticism, and this voucher issue bungling.

He'd be a terribly divisive and dispiriting pick, and Kamala Harris does NOT need that. And we need her to pick someone who helps unite us and ramp up the excitement and enthusiasm even more.

[BlueTsunami2018]

45. I disagree.

But that’s fine. I think he’d be a great pick but I also don’t want to lose him as my governor. He’s been fantastic so far for us.

I think we can take PA without him though. I’m leaning toward Cooper. Getting North Carolina would be huge.

[Behind the Aegis]

48. As I understand it, Cooper would mean Mark Robinson would ascend to governor.

That is a BIG NO!

If that is incorrect, then, yes, Cooper would be a good choice too.

[BlueTsunami2018]

51. That's not the case.

He wouldn’t have to resign his office to run and he’s in his last year. That imbecile Robinson is running for his seat though, he wouldn’t take office until next year if he somehow wins.

If Cooper helps Harris win the state, I’m betting coattails will keep Robinson out as well.

[Behind the Aegis]

55. Well, that is a relief!

I was seeing comments stating what I had heard about his having to resign, which would put that bigot into the seat.

I have NO idea if you (or anyone reading this) has any stats about the "picking a governor from such and such state adds to the ticket. I hear it all the time, but I haven't ever really seen anything in hard facts.

[onenote]

82. Cooper wouldn't have to resign, but Robinson would become acting governor every time Cooper leaves the state

Per the NC Constitution.

[videohead5]

41. What if she can't

Win Pennsylvania without him? He vetoed the bill. Are you ready to throw away democracy over one issue that he has reversed course on?

[DemocratInPa]

76. I laugh at some here..

I hear all the time how people like Mary Peltola and Marie Gluesenkamp Perez have to do things to win, but Shapiro is also in a 50/50 battleground state gets crucified for doing certain things someone might be against.

[obamanut2012]

32. He vetoed the bill

Your link is 18 months old.

[Nevilledog]

63. He didn't veto it because he changed his mind, it was because of Dem push back.

https://apnews.com/article/school-choice-voucher-josh-shapiro-pennsylvania-governor-2e4f893b76efa1c5919c7fe482f950d0

HARRISBURG, Pa. (AP) — In the partisan politics of education funding, the school choice movement has pressed states for decades to send taxpayer money to private and religious schools and long had to concentrate its efforts on states where a Republican governor was an ally.

That suddenly changed over the summer.

Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro — a first-term Democrat seen by his party as a rising star nationally — forcefully put his weight behind a Republican-backed proposal to send $100 million to families for private school tuition and school supplies.

Shapiro would later back down in the face of House Democratic opposition, but his support has raised Pennsylvania’s profile in the national voucher debate and given advocates optimism that the program will eventually become law.

*snip*

[Pisces]

33. If he's the best candidate to get Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, maybe Ohio I'm for him. She will set

The policy and he would be VP enacting her policies. We need those states and those undecideds who are more moderate. The goal is to win and have a say over new Supreme Court Justices.

Shapiro may be the best way to get there.

[In It to Win It]

34. I also disagree with him on vouchers... but that doesn't make him a 'no' for me. I still like him

[gab13by13]

39. Yeah, I remember I was told that Fetterman was too liberal for Pa.

by someone not from Pa. We were told we needed to nominate the moderate, Lamb. I knew how Pa. felt about Fetterman, even a few of my Magat acquaintances liked him.

I don't know if the people attacking Shapiro over this charter, and or voucher support are from Pa. but I am from Pa. I know this, that Pa. loves Shapiro. He just cut funding to charter schools and vetoed a voucher bill. It seems to me to be a heck of a lot of smoke and no fire. Where's the beef?

[bucolic_frolic]

42. He is the product of private schooling

[ananda]

50. So am I, and I am totally against vouchers.

I support public education all the way.

[onenote]

85. So is Pete Buttigieg.

And Mark Kelly voted against a ban on assault weapons. I'm pretty sure someone could find something to object to in the background of most if not all the folks being considered for VP.

It's not as if Biden and Harris were perfectly aligned when he chose her as his VP.

[CTyankee]

49. Uh oh, I didn't know that. I can't support that.

Then I will support Kelly. I like his life story and he seems very personable. As a team, I think he and Kamala would be tough to beat, but we know Cheato....god knows what he'd do (or unleash) in his rage.

[epreic01]

54. He's one of my last picks

For me it’s a lack of experience. I’d be happy with him, but don’t think he’s the best of the best.
My last pick is probably Cooper.

[Wiz Imp]

58. While he has voiced support for vouchers, it is apparently a very nuanced position.

He's now signed 2 budgets without including vouchers even though it is one of the republicans highest priorities. And the budgets have significantly increased money for public schools ($1 billion this year). The latest budget also added a $100 million line item that will route additional money to public school districts that have resident students enrolled in cyber charter schools. It also includes a list of new oversight requirements for charter and cyber charter schools. These include classifying their administrators as public employees, which will require them to file statements of financial interest with the state. The rules also bar administrators from awarding contracts if they have a conflict of interest, and require the dismissal of administrators convicted of crimes including felonies, fraud, or thefts. The budget doesn’t create a taxpayer-funded private school voucher program favored by legislative Republicans.

This really should be a non-issue

https://www.spotlightpa.org/news/2024/07/pennsylvania-legislature-budget-deal-education-spending-public-schools-josh-shapiro/

[alarimer]

59. Yes, vouchers are bad.

Not the way to improve public schools. I don’t know why so many Democrats support them or charter school (which are mostly a grift).

[Deminpenn]

66. Here is the truth

Last edited Wed Jul 24, 2024, 08:31 PM - Edit history (1)

In 2023, Shapiro said he supported vouchers, then line item vetoed it when the budget came to him for signature.

The recently signed budget doesn't include school vouchers. SpotlightPA has a nice capsule budget breakdown: https://www.spotlightpa.org/news/2024/07/pennsylvania-budget-public-schools-economic-development-scholarships-josh-shapiro-legislature/

The new budget includes 100M new funding for public schools and 20M to help reimburse them for cyber charter school tuition when their students choose to attend one of them.

PA does already have kind of a voucher program that's run as a business tax credit if a business decides to contribute to a program intended to provide vouchers to parents of students in under performing schools.

Last, several years ago, the PA Supreme Court ruled the system under which public schools are funded is unconstitutional. No one really knows exactly how to fix the inequality, but increased state funding will have to part of the solution.

[FlyingPiggy]

70. Doesn't matter. You should be voting for Kamala Harris regardless.

Or are we pulling a susan sarandon circa 2016?

[ColinC]

71. Kamala won't go anywhere. We need him to win 2024, that's it.

But I would be lying if I said this didn’t effect my enthusiasm for him

[gab13by13]

72. I want people to know this

I am from Pa. And Pa loves Shapiro in spite of the opposition research done on him here.
When I watch TV Magats are pumping a boat load of money into Pa. When I watch the Pirates game tonight there will be at least 5 or 6 campaign ads for president and Senator. There may be 1 campaign ad for Dems.
If Kamala picks Josh for VP I will breathe a sigh of relief that we win Pa. Did I mention that we in Pa love Shapiro?
There has not been sufficient evidence presented here to convince me that Shapiro is pro-voucher, pro-charter, to the detriment of public education.
Shapiro has been endorsed by teachers.

[TomIrish]

73. Bigger picture

Vouchers appeal to demographics Kamala needs. If Shapiro appeals to them so much the better. Avoid litmus tests and focus on the big picture.

[Blue Full Moon]

74. Heritage Foundation

Wrote the universal school bills. If he is supports that then absolutely NO.

[onenote]

86. By "absolutely no" do you mean you won't support Harris if she chooses him?

If not, what exactly does "absolutely no" mean?
People here are saying he's not "their pick".

Well, he's not ours to "pick" -- it's Harris's pick and I'm behind her no matter who she picks.

[Blue Full Moon]

91. Should not be considered at all

[Blue Full Moon]

92. She needs to think about

Why would she pick someone who supports any of Project 2025?

[gab13by13]

75. This opposition research is about education in Pa.

My daughter has the money and means to send my grandson to private schools. She does her research, she is sending him to public school in Hampton township, Weyland elementary school because that public school system is the best.

[returnee]

80. I am dead set against vouchers.

I wouldn’t call it a deal breaker because I’m voting for the Dem ticket no matter what. The real issue is we need to improve public education all around. No one would feel the need for vouchers if our public schools were up to snuff. And no tax breaks for religious schools and same educational standards for them.

[gab13by13]

83. What specifically has Shapiro done, not said.

About vouchers and charter schools?

I know he vetoed vouchers and cut money from charter schools, what am I missing that he did, not said?

[Nevilledog]

87. I posted this letter from educators elsewhere in the thread

Shapiro supports vouchers and only vetoed because of Dem backlash.

[gab13by13]

90. Your letter doesn't answer my question

I can give 2 examples of what Shapiro did, not said; he vetoed vouchers and cut funding from charter schools.

All I am asking is to provide 1 thing that Shapiro did regarding vouchers and charter schools.

Your letter claims that Shapiro supports Project 2025 and yet he vetoed vouchers and cut money to charter schools. How did Shapiro mirror Project 2025? Give 1 example is all I am asking.

My grandson goes to public school in Pa. and his parents are happy with the public school system.

What school systems in Pa. are specifically affected?

I have seen no data.

[Nevilledog]

94. He supports vouchers. The fact he didn't get it passed because of fallout doesn't change that.

Shapiro recommits to school vouchers during 'Business Matters' interview

https://www.lehighvalleynews.com/state-regional-news/shapiro-recommits-to-school-vouchers-during-business-matters-interview

[surfered]

84. Did not know that. Thank you

[Crunchy Frog]

88. All I want...

is whoever is most likely to get the ticket elected.

Everything else is really low on my list. A VP doesn't make policy anyway.

[Efilroft Sul]

93. Our VP choices are waaaay better than the GOP's, so let's not let make the perfect the enemy of the very effing good.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

95. I agree

Vouchers and charter schools are big negatives

[Dem4life1234]

96. Not every kid is meant to go to public school or even a bricks and mortar school!

Not a deal breaker for me.