Wray casts doubt Trump struck by bullet

[Pototan]

The FBI's director has cast doubt on whether Donald Trump was struck by a bullet during the attempt on his life at a Pennsylvania political rally.

Christopher Wray was updating Congress about the assassination attempt on Trump in Butler on Wednesday when he made the explosive statement.

'With respect to former President Trump, there’s some question about whether or not it’s a bullet or shrapnel that hit his ear,' Wray said.


Link;
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13669813/FBI-director-Christopher-Wray-doubt-Trump-SHOT-assassination-attempt.html

[gab13by13]

1. When TSF said he was hit by a bullet,

I knew he was hit by shrapnel.

[former9thward]

4. Shrapnel from what?

Nothing was broken between the shooter and Trump.

[LisaL]

7. That's not accurate.

There were other people injured by shrapnel at that event.

[former9thward]

11. What was broken between the shooter and Trump's head?

And did you see the photo of the bullet headed towards Trump's head?

[fargone]

18. The photo with the streak,

Shows the streak behind his head. I cannot tell if that is a bullet or some other particle. Whatever it is, because of the geometry of the situation, it is not heading toward Trump’s head but away from it. Since multiple shots were fired that missed the target, there is no guarantee that the photo streak was the object that grazed his ear. I have seen no detailed diagram of the bullets' potential paths including where they struck audience members. There has been no report of where the bullets were recovered. If members of the audience were struck by non bullet objects it behooves the investigation to tell us what those objects were and where the persons were located when hit. Secret Service agents may be quick but they were not on top of Trump before the shooting ended.

[SunSeeker]

42. There was tons of sound equipment on the stage, not to mention the metal stands themselves that could send off shrapnel.

The Trumper, Comperatore, who got his head blown off, was to the left of Trump, between Trump and the shooter. I'm not sure where the 2 Trumpers who took bullets in the torso were sitting. Very high velocity AR-15 bullets rip right through bodies and don't stop. Bullets probably hit the bleacher seats around Comperatore and the other 2 and sent metal shards flying.

The four Pittsburgh police officers who were standing near Trump got hit with metal or plastic shrapnel, suffering minor injuries, like Trump.

From WPXI News out of Pittsburgh, PA:

“Four Pittsburgh police officers assigned to the former president’s motorcade...suffered minor injuries during the shooting...the officers were just feet away from Trump when shots rang out...the officers were hit with either plastic or metal fragments when the bullets struck objects nearby."

[Brenda]

72. Excellent post, thanks!

This is the first detailed report I've seen about "plastic or metal fragments," ie. shrapnel.

About 10 days after Chump was "hit" he lost the giant pad and now wears a band-aid with no visible injury around it.

Now will those calling shrapnel a conspiracy stfu?

[former9thward]

120. No, I will not stfu.

I will believe the investigations, not the CTs being spread.

[Brenda]

125. Exactly what CTs are being spread about "shrapnel"?

News reports say Pittsburgh PD has minor injuries due to "shrapnel" and they stood feet from Chump.

Why would it be a CT to think Chump's minor injury could also be from shrapnel?

I never said not to investigate but a whole lotta people here are saying get over it, it doesn't matter, it's a conspiracy theory, etc.

Hmmmmm.

[Pototan]

8. I'm gonna guess

that FBI Director Wray has a little more information than you do.

[former9thward]

10. Really?

Then why didn't he answer the question? And did you challenge the poster who said "It was shrapnel"?

[Pototan]

12. When confronted with Trump's truthfulness

and I have to choose on whether or not Trump is lying about an important event concerning him, I choose that he's lying. Just like a witness with no credibility, he needs to produce irrefutable evidence to corroborate his position for me to believe him.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

15. That's the logical fallacy known as Appeal To Authority -- "He says so, so there!". . . . .nt

[The Magistrate]

79. That's Not Always A Fallacy, Sir

There's no one better positioned to know the results of investigation to-date than the agency's chief.

That he says he isn't certain if it was a bullet or not is not quite stating it was not a bullet, but it suggests real difficulties with a bullet being the explanation. They know where the shots were fired, and say they know where each bullet wound up. If one went near the sick fuck's head trajectory tracks ought to show so clearly.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

81. Yes, but it is a fallacy in this case. Though the chief knows more than us, there is

... there is nothing to indicate that his agency has completed the investigation and reported to him. Hence his claim that he does not know the exact cause of the wound, yet. He is just using cautious language. He has not been officially told the cause or where the shots were fired or where each bullet wound up. The investigation is ongoing.

Thus it is an appeal to an authority because the authority (the chief) is not certain of the cause of the wound and yet the implication the poster wants us to take away is that the chief knows and that the chief saying "there is some question" is a kind of proof that it wasn't a bullet wound.

The appeal was in response to:

Shrapnel from what?
Nothing was broken between the shooter and Trump.

The assertion about "broken" may or may not be correct. The chief clearly stated that he didn't know ("some question" is not a resolution). So the authority (the chief) had no authoritative thing to say about shrapnel.

Hence the appeal to authority was empty and thus introduced the fallacy.

[Katcat]

20. A light wasn't it?

My bad, a teleprompter was what was said

[summer_in_TX]

24. Scripps News fact-checked the teleprompter theory.

Pics from right after the assassination that included the teleprompters were examined. No damage.

[Retrograde]

56. Bits of plastic, wood from the stage

bone fragments from the man who was killed, bits of fragmented bullet - not having access to anything not published - and not being a forensic medical person - I can't say

[thatdemguy]

106. The man who died was behind rump from the direction of the shooter

Not in front of him.

[Groundhawg]

2. it doesn't matter.

[newdeal2]

3. Why not?

I would like to know the full facts.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

67. The main fact is that there was an attempt to assassinate tRump

It was unsuccessful. Whether he got hit by some kind of shard or a bullet does not really matter since the main fact dominates all the other facts of the event put together.

It is a lie that it was glass.

[radius777]

147. It does matter. Trump says the bullet grazed his ear,

yet he won't release the medical reports. So it clearly matters to him that the narrative be that the bullet itself is what caused his injury.

[Skittles]

5. FACTS MATTER

END OF STORY

[Pototan]

6. It may not matter to you

but if Trump knowingly lied to exaggerate his injury, it matters to me and I'm going to bet it matters to a lot of other people.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

17. Wow, you've really done it now. You've caught tRump telling a lie! Finally!

Well, not really. Just because tRump says the sky is blue we should say he is lying and the sky is green? Nope. You can, not me.

To automatically disbelieve tRump is as much an error as automatically believing tRump.

We should automatically discount what tRump says and look for other sources of information.

[charliea]

32. Not Really

Possibly prejudicial but not an error. Given a decades long history of lying, cheating, and sexual assault, an assumption that he's lying now, with only his statement of fact to support it, is heuristically correct.

I haven't heard of any evidence except something from Rep. Ronny Jackson (aka Dr. FeelGood) and no images of the "horrific wound". If it was there he'd use in his fundraising. (* I took a bullet for you *)

If the guy he appointed to the FBI is uncertain or the case, as a voter I'd really like to know if TSF is telling another tall tale.

If the Orange One said the sky is blue, I'd go look for myself...

[Bernardo de La Paz]

62. "no images"? The pictures of the wound are available all over the web. . . . nt

[Pototan]

60. An absolutely absurd hypothetical

and, as a result, which of our replies is more convincing?

My reply (No. 6): 29 recs as of 3:33 AM

Your reply (No. 17): Zero at 3:33 AM

[Bernardo de La Paz]

63. Oh, so now glass truthers think this is a popularity contest. Go right ahead and believe "recs" are truth. . . nt

[Pototan]

65. We post to convince others

here on DU. We can assume these are likeminded people and not adversaries.

I am just glad that my opinion seems to carry the day, this time, here on DU.

I don't know you or anyone else here on DU, personally. So, it's far from a "popularity contest". The recs, in my opinion, mean an individual agrees with the post or the reply. What else could it mean?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

66. What happens is glass truthers attract glass truthers who "rec"

Fact based realists don't have time to refute basic points for the 23rd time.

Don't expect me to hang around refuting them for the 24th time.

[Pototan]

68. The OP does not even have any text from me

It's a very recent news story of FBI Director Christopher Wray's (a Trump appointee) testimony, under oath. For the first time.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

69. Are you implying that we are not allowed to reply to you? Nonsense. "Doubt" is not "fact". . . . nt

[Pototan]

71. Look, I don't know what you're driving at

First off, I have great respect for you. As a relatively new DUer, I assess those who reply to me by using whatever criteria I am privy to.

You have substantial longevity on this site. Far more than I do. You have a gold star, which means you made a financial contribution to this site, as I did. And you have nearly 50,000 posts, which means that people here at DU are more familiar with you than they are with me.

So please don't take our interaction as a negative. It's a debate on a very important subject in which we have differing opinions. I firmly believe that if it turns out Trump lied and exaggerated his wounds on July 13, it will change the narrative on the subject and have a substantial, negative affect for him in this election.

If the medical report comes out and confirms a bullet nick, it only confirms what almost everyone believes already, especially his supporters. But if it proves he purposely and knowingly lied for effect, that makes for a far different story, especially for Independents.

I have never said I know what caused the wound. It's just that I'm skeptical when Trump hides the truth by not approving the release of the medical records from the Doctors who treated him immediately following the shooting. I have a theory, but I concede that theory is not fact. He was OK with Ronnie Jackson making an assessment, so he doesn't want to keep the record secret, just that Trump and his team want to control the narrative.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

74. OK, thank you. Skepticism is fine, but so much of the glass truther writing accepts as facts things that are not. . .nt

[Meowmee]

77. I agree

I already had my doubts because of the small damage to his ear and how he acted when his ear was hit by whatever it was. If he is lying it needs to come out. Show us the medical records. I presume they will show the truth, but who knows- can they tell with that type of wound if it is shrapnel vs a bullet grazing his ear?

He has a life long history of lying about everything. I will never forget the crazy doctor who was interviewed on tv with his wife at some point to say you know who was not lying about the doc saying he was the healthiest person in the world etc.

[canetoad]

9. Yes it does

If trump lied about his injury, knowing the truth, the voting public need to know. And why.

[Cha]

34. Yes it Most Certainly Does Matter.

[BoRaGard]

102. au contraire

thou may well be lacking in the POWER OF BE-LEAF.

[BluesRunTheGame]

13. My theory is a KFC chicken bone fragment was stuck in his hair.

When the secret service heard the shots they wrestled him to the ground and the chicken bone scratched his ear and caused a little bleeding.

We all know how much he likes KFC. He probably uses chicken grease on his hair. I imagine there’s always a few chicken bone fragments in his hair. It just makes sense!

[FrenchCitizen]

14. DRUMPF IS AN ACTOR

He has access to special effect tools like blood squibs.

Not saying it didn’t happen

But let us THINK CRITICALLY about what kind of person dRumpf is…would he create chaos to distract from his own legal troubles????

[Prairie Gates]

16. Trump wasn't hit by a bullet

Come on, now.

And yes, it fucking matters.

[calimary]

38. And the timing matters.

When did this happen? Saturday anfternoon, July 13th, while he was giving a speech, just two days before the Republican Convention, which formally opened Monday July 15th at 9am. Helluva lead-in, if you ask me.

[Generic Brad]

19. Does he still have an ear?

Clearly it’s still there. I highly doubt his ear was shot. More like he cut it with his fingernail by accident when he dropped to the ground.

[Bluethroughu]

21. Show us the ear, the first pics after it happened

Looked as if blood was beginning to come from the inside crease toward the top, and the corner of the glass on the teleprompter was broken...I think it was as serious as the bone spurs.

He had a white middle class trump suppoter/ or former trump supporter shoot at him. Hopefully the FBI finds out why.

[Ms. Toad]

50. The teleprompter was not broken.

What initially appeared to be a break was a reflection on the glass that made the corner appear different from the rest of it.

[SunSeeker]

84. There was a lot of other equipment for the bullets to hit (metal bleachers, speakers). Shrapnel definitely went flying.

From WPXI News out of Pittsburgh, PA:

“Four Pittsburgh police officers assigned to the former president’s motorcade...suffered minor injuries during the shooting...the officers were just feet away from Trump when shots rang out...the officers were hit with either plastic or metal fragments when the bullets struck objects nearby."

Trump should release medical info about the shooting injury. If he were hit by a bullet that close to his head, the impact could cause concussion/cognitive issues. He Has been totally mum other than saying he “took a bullet for Democracy.”

[Brenda]

99. Again, thanks for providing a news report of evidence of shrapnel.

I guess you could post that WPXI quote a hundred times and certain posters will still ignore it.

[SunSeeker]

87. The teleprompter was not the only piece of equipment on the stage.

There were speakers, mics, and the metal bleachers surrounding Trump that all could have sent shrapnel.

[Ms. Toad]

138. I wasn't disputing that.

Just correcting the viral misinformation that the teleprompter was broken.

[Bluethroughu]

96. The corner was, I saw it in a still picture on David Packman program.

Not broken off, the glass on the inside upper corner facing the orange one was shattered about two inches.

[Ms. Toad]

137. Find a better picture and zoom in.

What appears to be broken of us simply a reflection.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

64. The glass was not broken. Facts don't matter to glass truthers

[SunSeeker]

85. We're not talking about glass. We're talking about metal or plastic shrapnel.

From WPXI News out of Pittsburgh, PA:

“Four Pittsburgh police officers assigned to the former president’s motorcade...suffered minor injuries during the shooting...the officers were just feet away from Trump when shots rang out...the officers were hit with either plastic or metal fragments when the bullets struck objects nearby."

It appears likely that the shrapnel that hit the cops surrounding Trump was also what hit Trump. It is very unlikely that Trump's ear was hit by an AR-15 bullet, since his ear is still on his head. Snopes really dropped the ball on this story. I think with Wray's testimony, Snopes needs to edit their analysis.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

86. Yes, the truthers are. I was responding to post 21 which claims the teleprompter was broken. . . . nt

[SunSeeker]

92. Being skeptical of Trump's claim is not being a "truther." Wray isn't a truther.

It's Wray's testimony we're talking about. Maybe the glass of the teleprompter wasn't broken, but there were a lot of other parts and equipment, like the metal stands themselves, that definitely did send shrapnel.

It is now confirmed that shrapnel did fly.

I have seen the pictures that poster is talking about, where the upper right corner border of the teleprompter looks missing. Not the glass, but the frame., which is what I understood post #21 was talking about.

[Bluethroughu]

98. Thank you.

[oldmanlynn]

22. The fact that the doctors haven't spoke out

The fact that the doctors haven’t spoken out about the injury to give the press some information says everything about this situation

[summer_in_TX]

25. Actually all it probably reveals is that they were threatened if they revealed anything.

[SilasSouleII]

31. Just like all medical workers are defacto threatened

with penalties if they violate HIPPA rules and regulations.

[summer_in_TX]

33. Exactly.

[Skittles]

49. first, it is HIPAA

and if Trump was really hit by a bullet he'd release his records in a heartbeat

[Ford_Prefect]

23. Until they release the medical report we do not know what his injury was or what caused it.

AFAIK Trump doesn't have the capacity to tell the truth. He also could not know what hit his ear. Unless there were fragments of whatever it was in the wound, or characteristic damage such as torn flesh rather than sliced skin, there's no useful way to know. Only the person who cleaned and bandaged the wound could answer that.

[CentralMass]

30. Whas that Dr Vinny Boombatz Jackson who treated him ?

[Bev54]

26. This is what happens when people declare something before having all the facts

as often happens. They insist they know better than those who are actually investigating and before the investigation is even started. It boggles my mind sometimes.

[pat_k]

27. What's the big deal?

Might be important for crime scene investigators to map out the whole story, but frankly, I don't care. A bullet close enough to either graze him, or hit something that broke apart creating shrapnel that grazed him, is horrific. Either way, we are looking at an assassination attempt that came frightening close to being successful.

[Pototan]

39. In 2004

John Kerry was accused of embellishing his injuries that earned him a purple heart.

The Repukes didn't contest that he fought in the Viet Nam War or that he was in charge of a crew of a swift boat, or even that he was wounded. They ran ads that said he exaggerated the severity of his wounds. The counter narrative, which ran in ads, was so effective, it became known in political advertising as "swift boating".

That's why it matters.

[OAITW r.2.0]

46. +1

[pat_k]

52. Not sure it is an apt comparison.

The orchestrated swiftboating of Kerry, and the fact they were getting away with their crooked campaign, was heart-wrenching to live through.

I hate feeling like I'm defending Trump, but has he made out the injury to be bigger than it is? I can't look at the man, but I haven't gotten the impression it was more than a little nick. Not really even a graze, whether from shrapnel or a bullet. I guess I don't really see how he could know what hit him. But he's Trump, so of course he'd assume it was a bullet. His mental illness requires every event be interpreted in a way that boosts his eggshell ego.

[GigiLeigh]

54. Fun fact

TFG's campaign manager is Chris LaCivita , who ran the "swiftboat" attack against Kerry.

Maybe not so much a fun fact as it is a fact.

[Pototan]

57. Good point

Maybe that's why the release of the phony medical assessment by that quack, "DR." Ronnie Jackson stipulating a bullet wound, days after the attack.

I believe this is an attempt to inoculate Trump and his team if serious questions are asked.

They obviously see the exposure of this lie as a political vulnerability.

[SunSeeker]

41. The big deal is he LIED and said he "took a bullet for democracy"--to get sympathy votes.

It's fucking disgusting.

The lying sack of shit got hit by metal or plastic bits from the stage equipment that was hit by bullets. The police who were standing right by him reported getting hit with such pieces and suffering minor injuries. If Trump’s ear had been pierced with an AR-15, he wouldn't have an ear. As soon as I saw his ear, I knew he was lying.

Plus, the reason we have lunatics terrorizing the country with AR-15s is because Republicans, and Trump in particular, refuse to ban them, even though assault rifles used to be banned before Republicans lifted the ban. So it is just fucking galling that he is trying to elicit sympathy by falsely claiming he was shot by an AR-15, when he and his party are the reason people are shooting AR-15s.

[pat_k]

45. I get your point, however...

... how could he know what he was grazed with?

Even if he somehow does know and is lying, it just doesn't strike me as a particularly nefarious lie -- not when compared to some of the others among his countless lies.

[SunSeeker]

51. He's using a lie to get votes. It's election fraud, like lying about Stormy.

But sure, he's done worse. But that doesn't mean we should let it go.

And of course he knew he didn't get hit by a bullet. That's why he is refusing to release his medical records from the incident, and why he wore that ridiculous huge bandage on his ear at the convention, so people would not see his ear was fine.

[pat_k]

53. OK.

I guess, in general, I'm just sick of the focus on the man. I like the balance in Kamala's speeches. Make short shrift of the guy and focus on reminding people they have the power to shape a government we can be proud of. Remind Americans of our shared values. Remind Americans we can move toward a brighter future if we engage with each other. We've really got to find a way out of this destructive us. v. them death spiral.

Endlessly demonizing Trump isn't accomplishing anything but alienating people who support him -- and people are supporting him for all sorts of reasons. We can reach some of those people if we talk to their concerns and inspire some hope for the future. Many have turned to Trump because they believe we hate them. And hating on the candidate they are leaning toward reinforces that.

[Groundhawg]

75. even that wouldn't change anything.

[SunSeeker]

82. Acting like it's nothing certainly won't change anything. nt

[Bluethroughu]

105. While children take bullets at schools because he advocates for high capacity guns

For all, along with the not so Supreme 6.

[thatdemguy]

109. I posted this before, youtubers are testing this

The screenshot below is from an asshole from texas' video. Its right after the bullet hit the ballistic gel ear, and while gel is a close over all approximation of flesh ears are not flesh like muscle. There are other youtube videos of people testing this as well. Including one who shot a bullet thru a 1 inch thick piece of gel, the after effect to the gel is a tiny little hole.

There is enough info on this screen shot for you to find the video if you want but I wont like to it for many reasons.

https://imgur.com/a9Twd3I

[SomedayKindaLove]

44. Because Trump is a cult leader

And saying you got hit by a bullet and survived is way more bad ass than saying you got some glass stuck in your ear. It’s manna for his cult followers.

Once, if ever, Trump is found to have lied about his wound, it will be a big deal. He and his play doctor will be shown to be in conspiracy to dupe the public.

[Skittles]

48. FACTS SHOULD MATTER

END OF STORY

[moniss]

28. In GQP/MAGA world it has

grown in legend to be a howitzer round.

[myohmy2]

29. doesn't matter...

...since when did facts and truth matter when it comes to trump...?

...he could have been hit with a piece of hard dogshit and they would have him surviving an artillery shell...

...unlike Joe, trump is so foul and obnoxious that two weeks after an assassination attempt nobody much cares...

...at least I don't...

[Brother Buzz]

35. If the marmalade shartcannon was struck by an actual bullet.....

He'd have been tooting his horn by parading the twenty seven eight-by-ten color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one.

That is, if he didn't first try to monetize it by selling autographed copies


Occam's razor, Baby!

[KS Toronado]

36. Has anybody seen a close-up actual photo of his ear?

Knowing the way he operates playing the victim, I'd think he'd be showing it off with a "vote 4 me"

[Bernardo de La Paz]

88. Yes. The photo is readily available on the internet. . . . .nt

[KS Toronado]

100. For your 50,000 show us the ear , Congratulations on your milestone

[Bernardo de La Paz]

101. Thank you :)

[Bernardo de La Paz]

107. Ear closeup. You can see a bit of white cartilage and two wounds, consistent with the trajectory of the bullet

[edhopper]

123. In the last photo

that bullet is too low to hit the upper ear where he is bleeding.
Also, in an interview after the convention, with no bandage, his ear does not show damage.
What you see as cartilage, others see as debris.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

124. Nope. His right ear is in perspective lower than his left ear, because the camera is below ear level. . . nt

[edhopper]

126. I understand that

but the perspective would not have been that much for that short a distance between the ears.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

127. The angle of the lens is considerably below the plane of ears, so yes, it would be that much

It's not a shallow angle of a degree or two, but rather more like 30 degrees below the plane.

[edhopper]

130. I worked it out

you can see the angle based on the cap, whose sides would have been the same height..
You can see the perspective line from the cap and where the perspective would have to be for the bullet to hit the top of the ear on the other side.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

139. It's possible, but I think the angles are not quite what you measure

I looked to try to find another photo from a slightly different angle. Perhaps I should try to get some still frames from the video to at least get some better angle info, unlikely to find the bullet in video but the angle there is head on (telephoto video), and it might help.

Except, ... I've spent too much time on this topic as it is, so I probably won't.

[edhopper]

140. You and me both

in the end it is trivial. Just something that was bugging me.

[edhopper]

132. Mind you

I think Trump got hit with something because of the shots fired at him. I think Crook was trying to kill him. I just don't think it was the actual bullet.

[misanthrope]

141. Comparative photo

This is from a July 25 rally in Charlotte, N.C.

https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-1000w,f_auto,q_auto:best/rockcms/2024-07/240725-donald-trump-se-1220p-c22332.jpg

[SunSeeker]

37. If an AR-15 bullet had pierced his ear, he wouldn't have an ear. I knew he was lying as soon as I saw his ear.

He is such a lying, self aggrandizing piece of shit.

[Dave Bowman]

55. Yep, his ear would have been turned into a bloody mist.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

89. Nope. An ear is not an apple shot head on. Here's a side head wound. Head did not explode, no "mist"

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324749000_Telescopic_removal_of_bullet_in_a_challenging_case_of_gunshot_injury

[Dave Bowman]

91. So you agree with tRump that it was a bullet instead of a shrapnel?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

93. It was a bullet. I have not depended on his statement, but tRump is not automatically wrong

The photo of the bullet, the closeups of the ear, the video of his reaction, ... they are all consistent with being struck by a bullet.

Your attempt by using the Guilt By Association fallacy is utterly misguided.

[Doc Sportello]

108. So you're a bullet truther

The FBI can't say it was or wasn't but you are doing the same thing as those you disparage as glass truthers with the above claim. The fact is we don't know and that includes you. You are just speculating and treating your opinion as if it's fact, just like the "glass truthers". They should hold off on those claims until it's known, as should you. Your opinion is not fact, no matter how much you believe it is.

[Brenda]

110. Good post.

The fact that some people keep denying "shrapnel" (which has been established to EXIST - at least for the other people hit) is telling.

[Doc Sportello]

112. Thanks

It is just is funny to me that the FBI director said "we don't know" whether it is a bullet or shrapnel, yet some get on here claiming they do. And then put down others for making the same claim with absolutist certainty on the opposite side. Maybe not so funny as a sad indicator of human behavior.

[Brenda]

114. Well, DU has a reputation about "truthers."

If you know what I mean.

It's crazy that with all of the technology today - all the cell phones at that rally, all the security there, we're still arguing about basic facts.

To me, the fact that the Pittsburgh cops who were very close to Chump had minor injuries due to shrapnel is pretty convincing evidence that HE TOO could have been hit with shrapnel for his OBVIOUSLY minor injury - not the actual bullet.

[Doc Sportello]

116. I would assume the FBI will figure it out

But maybe not. Anything to do with dump seems to be kept under wraps.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

111. The FBI CAN say, but not yet, since investigation is ongoing

The bullet is consistent with the videos, the bullet trajectory as shown by the bullet photo, and the ear closeups showing two wounds to the ear in line with the trajectory inconsistent with shards from the stage.

Shards do not as fully explain the photographic evidence.

When the FBI has completed analyzing and writing up the report we will know more. Until then they are saying nothing. Wray's statement simply says he does not know. By saying there are questions he is being appropriately cautious for a high public official.

I could be wrong about the bullet but I am very confident the evidence seen so far supports it strongly and the event is nothing like a headon shot at a watermelon.

[Doc Sportello]

113. You're just repeating the same speculations

I'm not arguing one way or the other. I am pointing out that you mock others with putdowns like bullet truthers while making an absolutist claim the opposite way yourself. Nor do you know what Wray was thinking or what stage the investigation is in. Just more speculation. At least here you admit you could be wrong. So if an investigation proves it was shrapnel will you apologize to those you mocked?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

115. I could be wrong, but the photos and videos support the bullet but not shard. . . .nt

[Doc Sportello]

117. So you're "trutherish"?

Repeating for the final time: my post was about obvious hypocrisy on your part. But I see why you'd ignore that point and repeat the same speculations as truth. And of course you wouldn't answer the question about admitting you were wrong if that turns out to be the case.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

121. Obviously on an opinion forum it is an opinion. I do not need to state that

But instead of dealing with the evidences I post, people instead resort to name calling; here you are calling me a hypocrite, which is a very severe personal attack not welcome on DU, and nothing like the "truther" tag I have used which only indicates a passion for a particular view, a particular view I believe is contradicted by the evidence.

By contrast, I have in multiple posts dealt with all the assertions the shard advocates use.

[Brenda]

118. Notice no apology forthcoming.

Same as it ever was.

[Doc Sportello]

119. Yep

Pointless to continue on this. People can believe or speculate all they want. I just don't like the putdowns, especially when the poster is doing the same exact thing.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

122. "bullet truther"? See your post #108. YOU are the one mocking with the phrase "bullet truther", not me. nt

[SunSeeker]

142. There is NO WAY that hole was from an AR-15. Looks like a very small caliber handgun, or maybe a BB gun.

Come on. The dead guy, Comperatore, who took an AR-15 bullet to the head, splattered brain bits on the stands, since it took the top of his head off. AR-15 bullets hit at much higher velocity. They're made to turn enemy soldiers into hamburger.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

143. There is no magical depth where less than it, little damage is done and more than it heads explode

Do this thought experiment:

1. Bullet flies by, one millimetre outside of ear. No damage.

2. Bullet path is now 2 mm closer. Thus one mm of the ear will be damaged (blown away). Not more than that because the ear is knocked out of the way.

If you think one mm would blow off the whole ear, then do the thought experiment at 1/2 mm deep or 1/10 mm deep.

The point is that there will be some deepness that yields the damage photographed. There is no jump transition in deepness where one depth does almost no damage and some fraction of mm totally blows the ear away. It is going to be an increasing graph of damage, gradually increasing as the depth gets deeper.

Thus there is some depth that will make the damage photographed.

[SunSeeker]

144. I don't need to do a "thought experiment." What AR bullets do to the human body is well documented.

Last edited Fri Jul 26, 2024, 10:12 AM - Edit history (1)

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/04/health/parkland-shooting-victims-ar15.html

That is not an AR bullet hole in your picture. Nor is the little nip in Trump's ear an AR bullet hole. Trump was hit with shrapnel. And then lied that it was an AR bullet hole.


Oh, and speaking of experiments...here's one specifically showing what an AR does to an ear (damage shown at the end of the video snippet):

Link to tweet

[Bernardo de La Paz]

145. Pro anatomy tip: ears have cartilage, no bone. Even tRump's ear. It makes a big difference

Do the exercise. It is a logical exercise. It is only called a thought experiment because it is unethical to do the actual experiment which is no way expected to deviate from the results I outlined. Call it a logical exercise.

It is a form of logical argument, point being there is no magical ear depth of nicking that jumps from minor damage to blow the ear off.

That video is useless on two counts: 1) The shot goes through the ear and does not nick it. Not comparable. 2) The material is not specified. It seems to be a gel.

[SunSeeker]

146. Pro tip: quit insulting your fellow Democrats.

We should be united now.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

90. Nope. See post #89

[SunSeeker]

95. Please provide a link. It's hard to find posts by number when on a phone. Thanks. nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

97. It's right there between your post and the one I replied to

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19235489

[Cha]

40. Wow and this is the head of the FBI

saying it. A bush appointee.

And No TSF hasn't earned any "respect".

[Pototan]

73. Actually, Wray is a Trump appointee

as FBI director.

Aloha

[Cha]

135. Oh Sorry.. I searched and it said "Bush"..

got some bad info.

That's even better.. a TSF Appointee and he's questioning the "bullet" story?!!

TY!

[PufPuf23]

43. Was watching MSNBC when the attempted assassination occurred.

First thought was that something happened inside his head and blood came out of the ear as a result. Second thought was about time for his head to explode.

Did not observe people behind Trump scatter from bullets.

Be interesting to see where the person who was killed and the two wounded and others hit by debris were located.

Have worried that some in the Secret Service are or were compromised by Trump.

The assassination attempt is fading fast towards nothing. I'd be more worried if Trump was assassinated and by whom was still a mystery. Looks like the event is what has been reported and even better nothing that boosts Trump into martyrdom or worse.

[Skittles]

47. so is Trump not screaming about this yet

hmmmmmmmmm

[Skya Rhen]

58. Trump doesn't give passes to anyone except for his attempted assassin - what a saint

[Skittles]

59. well he was a white male, and one of the GOP's own gun humping creations

yup

[MFM008]

61. Maybe

The man killed was behind him.
Remember when JFK was killed bullet went through him and either that or shrapnel went through and almost killed the Texas Governor.
Bullet and or bone pieces might have done the same thing in this case.

[SunSeeker]

94. The man killed was not behind him but to his left, between Trump and the shooter. nt

[Mike Nelson]

70. He has not approved...

... a medical report. Given the importance in a public figure and former President, that should have been done immediately. Yes, pictures show teleprompters still there after the shooting. But those bullets are powerful. Something from the ground could have been hit and ricocheted up to his ear. It could be a dozen things. The photo with a "bullet" whizzing by doesn't look like, to me, like an object that contacted Trump.

[Think. Again.]

76. So the only fact we have is...

trump was shot at by a rightwinger using a gun rightwingers made legal.

That's enough for me, moving on...

[rzemanfl]

78. I have always thought a supersonic bullet that close to his ear

would have damaged his hearing.

[marble falls]

80. Who care? It's time to get over it.

[SunSeeker]

83. I'll never get over Trump's lies. NEVER.

[Ferrets are Cool]

103. IF the medical report had stated "bullet wound"

Asswipe would have plastered that shit everywhere. The fact that he hasn't is all the proof that I need to know he is lying.

[Sibelius Fan]

104. D response should be "it is terrible that tRump was shot at, and it's important that we know

“what he was hit by if we are to better protect political candidates.”

[D_Master81]

128. Have a hard time believing

I have a hard time believing that it was actually a bullet fired from an AR rifle that hit his ear and he’s out of a bandage and looking normal again in a couple weeks. .223s would’ve had to have the slightest grazing of the skin for that to be the case. In fairness to Trump it doesn’t take away from the attempt on his life, but I don’t believe he was actually shot with a bullet

[republianmushroom]

129. And, so have many others.

Bullet of .223 cal., my a$$.

[edhopper]

131. Why the bullet captured in the photo

could not have hit Trump's ear.
The cap shows us the perspective of the photo. We can follow th bullet line.
You can see where the ear would have to be for the top to be hit. And the cap shows us the angle is wrong for the ear to be that low in the photo.

[gab13by13]

133. With all the confusion, I read the shooter fired 8 times,

he hit a lot of stuff. He hit a hose on a lift truck that spewed hydraulic oil over people that I don't see reported.

My take is that TSF was standing sideways and his ears do not stick out very far, if his ear was hit by a bullet he is one lucky motherfucker.

Also, since Wray won't confirm it was a bullet means it may not have been a bullet. Also, if TSF says it was a bullet I must believe the opposite.

[Brenda]

134. That's the first I heard about the hose on a lift truck hit and spewed

But yeah, lots of shrapnel reported yet some people here are calling it a CT to logically conclude it was shrapnel that hit Chump considering his tiny boo-boo. The big bandage was an absurd cover-up.

[malaise]

136. A Wray of Hope that

We get to the truth