General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf Trump was hit by a bullet of that caliber?
His ear would have been a dangling mess and moreover he wouldnt be alive! Period! The guy behind him was killed! The only logical explanation for the blood was flying glass!
I know what damage that caliber of bullet can do. I was in a field artillery company in the Army. I drove a truck yes, but I move ammunition around to the different areas of Ft Benning, GA. I saw the damage done to targets with only one shot!
The only thing that might have happened for Trump to have a bloody ear? When they Secret Service agents jumped on him? They could have cut his ear? End of story!
Yes, he was shot at and they right and media are talking about is how the bully was shot!
GreenWave
(12,641 posts)gab13by13
(32,324 posts)I read that a wooden speaker was hit, a hydraulic hose on a lift truck was hit that spewed hydraulic oil over people. There were several types of debris that could have hit TSF.
I said all along that the way TSF was standing, and that the way his ear does not stick out, if he was hit by a bullet there would have been a very small window for that to have happened. Debris just made more sense to me, was more logical.
The clincher for me that TSF was not hit by a bullet was when he said he was.
Joe Cool
(1,094 posts)My first reaction was that Trump was not hit by a bullet, he was reacting to something near his ear.
PatSeg
(53,214 posts)Like if a bee or a mosquito flew near his ear or touched it.
I saw head of FBI say yesterday that he believed it was shrapnel that hit trump and not a bullet.
SimplyHadEnough
(86 posts)"The clincher for me that TSF was not hit by a bullet was when he said he was." that makes sense, because when ever he opens his mouth to speak. He's lying.
SoFlaBro
(3,790 posts)Joe Cool
(1,094 posts)Butler, PA resident here. Only watched it because the rally was local to me.
My first reaction when I saw it was there was gunfire but Trump didnt get shot, he was reacting to something by his ear.
Until the actual medical records are released, no one can say for sure.
gab13by13
(32,324 posts)just looking at probability and odds based on TSF's history, when he claimed to be hit by a bullet the probability and odds of that being true went way down.
oldsoftie
(13,538 posts)allegorical oracle
(6,480 posts)but stage-craft drama.
aggiesal
(10,804 posts)so they can brag about it.
Siwsan
(27,834 posts)He's a bit of a gun aficionado and has serious doubts about the cause of the convicted felon's ear boo boo. He agrees that something like a glass shard is the likely cause. of the ear abrasion.
niyad
(132,446 posts)Siwsan
(27,834 posts)The father in the movie 'My Big Fat Greek Wedding' would have sprayed it with Windex.
notemason
(572 posts)My mom would've used Iodine.
niyad
(132,446 posts)mercuryblues
(16,413 posts)The 1st thing I did was get Boo-Boo Bunny to stop the crying. I'm not calling trump a toddler, well, yeah, I am.

Captain Stern
(2,253 posts)I guess someone could die if they were shot in the ear with a poisonous dart. But, nobody is going to die just from their ear getting hit by a bullet.....regardless of the caliber.
doc03
(39,086 posts)about the AR15. It is not any magical weapon that will decapitate someone hit in the ear. Enough with this bs about him not being shot. He may or not have been and it could be easily solved if we had a medical report. With all the conspiracy theories we sound as nutty as the MAGAs.
DeepWinter
(931 posts)Apparently are not considering a graze from a 0.22 or a .45 is still just a graze. Both still leave just a surface scratch. The muzzle energy is not transferred. Full impact is a different story. (Like to poor guy behind Trump.)
Imagine this exact situation happened to Biden. No one here would be questioning a thing. The desire to just want to hate is sadly strong.
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)oldsoftie
(13,538 posts)Bucky
(55,334 posts)The whole shooting thing is inconsequential. Dredging it up at this point only feeds right wing delusions of significance
gab13by13
(32,324 posts)The right has used propaganda to convince the vast majority of Americans that a fence is a wall. One may say that is not consequential, but a wall is something more powerful and impressive than just a fence. It is easier to convince people that a wall will stop people from crossing the border than a fence, a wall makes a better argument for building a barrier. So is it consequential or not to call a fence a wall?
sir pball
(5,340 posts)I've seen, up close and personal, the damage done to flesh and bone by everything from a .22 to a .416. It takes a little bit of penetration for a bullet to start to expand/tumble/fragment and make a big hole; hitting something as flimsy as an ear isn't going to affect the bullet much at all, it's like hitting a piece of cardboard a nice round little hole, no gaping cavity.
Now, it it had been a half inch off and hit bone
there's a phrase in the varmint shooting community, "the pink mist". Pretty self-explanatory, that one.
Probatim
(3,286 posts)There are literally hundreds of videos on YouTube showing how ballistic gel reacts to different calibers. A little education goes a long way when you don't have firsthand experience.
A few more posts and we'll have it settled.
sir pball
(5,340 posts)I swear some people think that "it was an AR, it TOUCHED his EAR, he should be HEADLESS!"
I have piercings in my ears that are damn near bigger holes than that
NoMoreRepugs
(12,076 posts)Solomon
(12,644 posts)happened he brought his right hand up to his ear and as a consequence his hand was "covered in blood" however when you look at all the photo ops his right hand is doing fist pumps in the air the point being his hand and white shirt sleeve are as clean as a whistle?
I was watching it live and I didn't think he was hit by anything. For all we know the SS could have caused that injury trying to protect him.
The question nobody wants to ask for fear of being shunned is what lengths do you think Trump would resort to in order the win this election. Wasn't he the one to bring up assassination out of the blue just a week or two before this happened when he said out loud that maybe the Biden administration put the authorization to use necessary force in the search warrant to assassinate him? Isn't he the one who knows he will probably go to jail if he loses this election?
I'm not saying he staged it and as a result had someone killed. But I do believe there's enough questions about the incident to ask more about it.
CoopersDad
(3,332 posts)I didn't realize he was down that long because I wasn't watching it live.
sop
(18,626 posts)Meowmee
(9,212 posts)to be elected and as you stated the most powerful motivation is maybe to escape jail/consequences. But really at this point since the supreme court has given him immunity I doubt any of these cases will go anywhere and he will never even be sentenced in the recent trial he was convicted in. I predicted something like what has happened would happen and he would escape justice in all of these cases.
He did bring his hand up to his ear, but it looked more like he was bitten by a bug or maybe hit by shrapnel to me, from his overall reaction.
birdographer
(2,937 posts)"All hell is going to break loose"--or words to that effect about "all hell"-- at that rally. I thought at the time that that was an odd thing to say.
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)The videos show he touched his ear only briefly, at the instant so no time for much bleeding and not much transfer. The fist pumps were after the scrum with the agents, where he might have wiped his hand a bit, automatically. Further, there is a photo of him with his arm and hand on the jacket coat of the woman agent (not this photo). Blood could have easily come off with his hand on the stage or others or his own clothing, just by a glancing brush with it.

Meowmee
(9,212 posts)to me it looked like a bug bit his ear or something of that nature from his reaction. I am not sure about the bullets, never having used any guns. My brother thought that it is possible with the gun used, he looked up the size of the bullets used in it, that it grazed his ear and did little damage. I still question it. Something is off about the whole thing. I think also he would have hearing damage from the sound etc.
Happy Hoosier
(9,535 posts)It may have been a bullet fragment.
I'm gonna get technical, and yes, I am firearms enthusiast, and anyone that wants to ctiticize that can get fucked. I'm not a gun-toting nut.
That caliber is know for shooting a very fast bullet. One way it causes such a horrific woud is because when the bullet strike a person, it tend to rotate as it passes through the body.... because of the speed of the bullet, it can actually dramtically fragment ("explode"
causing just a terrible wound. That's why so many AR-15 wounds look like the bullet exploded.... they kinda did.
If the bullet struck an object before getting to Trump, it very well could have gragmented, so a piece of the bullet (most likely part of the copper "jacket"
hit trump's ear. It could have been a fragment of whatever the bullet hit as well, but I'm thinking jacket fragment just because those fragment are sharp and tend to cause superficial wouds that will bleed a lot but cause no real damage.
Just my observation.
StClone
(11,869 posts)global1
(26,507 posts)And when the SS jumped on him and brought him down - maybe it was yanked from his ear and caused the wound & blood.
They did react rather roughly - as Tr**p is a weighty guy. They needed a lot of brute strength to bring him down.
Also remember - his shoes were knocked off. It wasn't the bullet that shot his shoes off. They most likely came off in the scrum of SS - that jumped on him and tried to protect him and ultimately brought him back up to his feet to whisk him away to safety.
Emile
(42,293 posts)imanamerican63
(16,178 posts)LuckyCharms
(22,650 posts)Theoretically, the bullet could have nicked him by 1/1,000,000 of a millimeter.
underpants
(196,501 posts)Link to tweet
?s=46&t=3VBm1LJ8j8qLp6JTs_8J2A
Zeitghost
(4,557 posts)A bullet has to impact something that provides resistance in order to transfer it's energy and create damage. Grazing an ear does not impart the energy needed to cause a significant energy, most of which is left in the bullet as it keeps going. The wound on Trumps ear is entirely consistent with a slight grazing hit by a 5.56/.223 round fired from an AR-15. 1/4" over and he loses a chunk of the ear, 1/2" over and it hit's his skull and he's dead.
thatdemguy
(620 posts)They shot thru ballistic gel, and it did not blow his head off. The problem with their videos is that gel while a good overall tissue simulator does not equal what an ear is made of.
The question is was rump lucky and not take it in the head or was the shooter lucky to hit him all.
I wont post a link due to the asshole whos channel it is but there is enough info in the image for you to find it. This is a screen shot taken from the video right after the bullet hit the ear.
https://imgur.com/a9Twd3I
sl8
(17,110 posts)sarisataka
(22,695 posts)would have shattered is like a melon. It is only pure luck the bleachers did not go up in a flaming explosion. I have heard there is a report being suppressed that the shooter was actually killed by the recoil, not the sniper....,
Any other bullshit we can add? I do wonder, outside of a slightly smaller that .25" hole, what damage did you see done to a target by one shot?
As a combat vet, I will posit your experience with targets is insufficient to make bold statement what the effects a 5.56 can do to a human body.
oldsoftie
(13,538 posts)When I read the title line I thought "oh for Pete's sake!!"
sarisataka
(22,695 posts)that even a miss can cause damage.
oldsoftie
(13,538 posts)"Just get it close, men!"
William Seger
(12,443 posts)If so, did it make a "loud whizzing sound" as Trump described, or did it sound like a bullwhip? (Not a combat vet myself, but I'm remembering my "crack-thump method" training from Army AIT.)
sarisataka
(22,695 posts)while working the targets on the range. A clear shot will make a crack, a deflected one will make a whizzing sound because it is not in stable flight. When being shot at, your senses start changing their focus, such as tunnel vision. Hearing can do the same so it is possible he didn't register hearing the crack sound.
IMHO the wound is consistent with a bullet graze but could have been caused by debris as well. Focusing on the actual mechanism simply keeps this in the news and it would be better to simply acknowledge someone shot at him. If he wants to claim a bullet- fine, he is still a felon and unfit to be President.
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)Here is a side shot near the ear. It is nothing like a head on shot to an apple, which naturally explodes. In this case, no dangling ear, not bloody mist, not dead,
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324749000_Telescopic_removal_of_bullet_in_a_challenging_case_of_gunshot_injury

Bluesaph
(1,026 posts)Apples oranges.
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)I posted a side head shot near the ear that was not as dangerous as a head on shot, such are commonly shown with apples or watermelons.
tRump's side head shot to the ear was even less dangerous because 1) Ears are flexible, 2) No bone was impacted, 3) only a few millimetres (width, depth) of flesh were impacted.
A side shot is not a head-on shot.
Bluesaph
(1,026 posts)And it did not say what type of gun or ammo. From my understanding this is important.
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)A side skull shot is less dangerous than a head on shot.
An ear nick by bullet is less dangerous than a side skull shot.
Here is the bullet from the skull. The man survived.

Bluesaph
(1,026 posts)Are just wrong. But this is still apples oranges.
My argument is not his head being blown off. Its that the damage from an AR15 bullet would cause a lot more damage than what Trump received.
Small bullet = apples
AR15 = oranges
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)1. Bullet flies by, one millimetre outside of ear. No damage.
2. Bullet path is now 2 mm closer. Thus one mm of the ear will be damaged (blown away). Not more than that because the ear is knocked out of the way.
If you think one mm would blow off the whole ear, then do the thought experiment at 1/2 mm deep or 1/10 mm deep.
The point is that there will be some deepness that yields the damage photographed. There is no jump transition in deepness where one depth does almost no damage and some fraction of mm totally blows the ear away. It is going to be an increasing graph of damage, gradually increasing as the depth gets deeper.
Thus there is some depth that will make the damage photographed.
Orrex
(67,111 posts)A fairly straight shot to the bony side of the head would seem to cause different damage compared to an impact on a soft, cartilaginous mass external to the skull, no?
Disclaimer: Personally I think it likely that he played up a minor injury for the sake of a photo op, whatever the source of the injury.
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts).... and a side skull shot, though damaging enough, is not as damaging as a shot head on the way the exploding watermelon shots are.
And he plays up everything, but he is spectacularly lucky in this case.
If doG saved him, it was so that he could live to be defeated by a brown-skinned female prosecutor.
Orrex
(67,111 posts)W_HAMILTON
(10,333 posts)Because if it was, yes, that guy's head would have exploded like an apple.
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)3) It was millimetres of flexible ear that does not absorb the energy because it was only millimetres and the ear is flexible because it has cartilage (visible in the photos), not bone.
W_HAMILTON
(10,333 posts)I can guarantee you that the type of gun and bullet used in your photo is nowhere near what was used in the PA shooting and comparing the two is foolish.
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)Comparing those with a glancing nick on flexible ear is foolish.
The point of the head wound photo is that just because it was a bullet doesn't mean heads explode and doesn't mean they always hit bone, as the head wound did.
W_HAMILTON
(10,333 posts)...to use that photo to make any comparison to the PA shooting.
Bernardo de La Paz
(60,320 posts)Peregrine Took
(7,583 posts)That's why we have not had a report from the medical people who treated him - the truth would come out...the last thing he wants.
OMGWTF
(5,131 posts)The ear diaper at the RNC CONvention was a nice touch. Weird that his ear looks like nothing ever touched it though. RELEASE THE MEDICAL REPORT. If there even is one.
Bluesaph
(1,026 posts)I posted a video demonstrating exactly your point which was made by Wray yesterday and some sensitive member alerted in me and a jury agreed I was trafficking in a cooky conspiracy!
Donald Trump did NOT take a bullet. Period. And if anyone wants to they can find several YouTube demonstrations now. At the time there was only the one not several others have used ballistics dummies to demonstrate what would happen to an ear if it was grazed by an AR15.
orangecrush
(30,261 posts)Is this satire?
No, 5.56 mm are not "magic bullets" that will cause death if they so much as touch you, and I believe you already know that.
What you have posted is what right wing militia types stereotype Democrats as believing out of lack of basic knowledge on the subject.
Someone made a video replicating the shot on a ballistics gel head, complete with ears.
The bullet actually penetrated the upper earlobe, which is more than Trump got, which was apparently a graze. In slow motion, you can see the shock from the .22 diameter projectile opened a hole in the upper earlobe that expanded to the size of a nickel instantly and then retracted to the projectiles diameter (even the video maker was amazed by this), but the head did not explode, or incur any other major damage.
That said, not being a doctor, I would guess that Trump's hearing on that side could be affected, nerve damage to the face, and other complications.
Trump did come within inches of having a mouth where his nose used to be.
On a normal person, this might cause some self evaluation, with Trump, it just ballooned his psychosis even further to enhance his belief in his own invincibility and unaccountability.
MichMan
(17,151 posts)70sEraVet
(5,482 posts)(or like a gay symbol 50 years ago) and call it a day.
jujubeets
(80 posts)Please let the assassination attempt fade away. It does not help our candidate. To that end, I will support posts above by confirming some facts learned with firsthand experience.
The ammunition likely used by the shooter acts like a high speed ice pick unless it hits something substantial like thick bone. The ear would just have a caliber sized hole in it or be torn.
The gun used by the shooter was not suited to the task. Using that style gun with that kind of sighting system made for a difficult shot, and adding high stress level made for an extremely difficult shot. Even if the shooter had done well, the system wasn't accurate enough to be sure of success. Which is to say had the shooter been right on the money with his aim, the bullet could still have easily wandered that far off.
Honestly, I'd probably just delete any reference to it having happened at all unless some new findings tie it back to Trump.
Bluesaph
(1,026 posts)edhopper
(37,370 posts)click on "Copy Image Link"
Post that link in the body of your post here.
William Seger
(12,443 posts)I've posted this several times now, apologies, but high-powered rifle bullets don't make a "whizzing" sound when they fly by you. They sound exactly like a bullwhip, and for the same reason: small objects moving faster than the speed of sound make a mini "sonic boom." I firmly believe that if an AR-15 bullet passed that close to Trump's ear, it would have caused temporary hearing damage, at least. But under no circumstances can I image anyone describing it as a "whizzing" sound. It was a piece of debris or possible a bullet fragment.
Orrex
(67,111 posts)oldsoftie
(13,538 posts)The guy killed was probably hit with a different shot. A photographer caught a shot of a bullet going right by Trump's head. I'd bet THAT one was the one that nicked him.
Dont buy into conspiracies thats what THEY do
edhopper
(37,370 posts)to hit the top of his ear.
Probably one that went by him to hit one of the attendees.
?quality=75&auto=webp&disable=upscale
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,869 posts)Donald Trump, the oldest presidential nominee in American history, has been reluctant to disclose basic details about his health. That's a problem.
Link to tweet
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/biden-spotlight-trumps-age-fitness-health-2024-election-rcna163226
It was, and is, a fair point and as a new Washington Post report makes clear, the spotlight is turning in ways the GOP nominee might not like.
After weeks of intense focus on President Bidens health and age that ended with his withdrawal from the campaign on Sunday, the script has flipped: Former president Donald Trump is now the oldest presidential nominee in history and one who has been less transparent about his medical condition than his former opponent.
The Posts report went on to note that Trump is a 78-year-old with a history of heart disease and obesity, who has not shared any updated bloodwork results or other specific information during this campaign to help experts assess his ongoing medical risks.
To be sure, the Republican has long had a problem with transparency. He promised to release his tax returns, for example, and then went back on his word. His White House also abandoned public access to visitors logs. Team Trump was also less than forthcoming when it came to readouts of the then-presidents conversations with foreign leaders, and at times, those close to the Republican even tried to hide information about his golfing habits.
But its Trumps secrecy surrounding his health thats relevant anew not just because hes now the oldest presidential nominee in American history, and not just because hed turn 82 while in office if elected to a second term, but also because he was recently shot during an assassination attempt, and Trump and his team have been reluctant to share even basic details about the care he received after the incident.
It's against this backdrop that the former president, just this morning, published an item to his social media platform that read, "I dont know who said it, or where it came from, perhaps the Radical Left, but I never discussed, or thought of, Jamie Dimon ... for Secretary of the Treasury."
It was just last month when Trump sat down for an interview with Bloomberg and said he'd consider JPMorgan CEO Jamie Dimon for Treasury secretary.
HarryM
(464 posts)That the bullet went in one ear and out the other.
Silent Type
(12,412 posts)and I'm sure not voting for him now.
rampartc
(5,835 posts)as part of their trump rally like 'rasslemanias the 'rasslers often bleed red substance profusely with little ill effect.
the entire event may not have been a stunt, but that was no kind of "injury"
"give him his purple heart and send him back to the front" maj frank burns 4077 mash
oldsoftie
(13,538 posts)If you ever watched him hot McMahon you'd see he cant even throw a good slap
rampartc
(5,835 posts)in a great video on line. but penn catches the bullet in his teeth. lol.
ashredux
(2,928 posts)It seem more likely that he was hit by a piece of the plexiglass teleprompter that was hit. That big bandage was for show .it is more like just a Band-Aid that was needed.
thatdemguy
(620 posts)Wednesdays
(22,603 posts)So, he was either hit with something, or he was faking it.
My money is on some sort of shrapnel or debris hitting him (not necessarily glass from the monitor).
Kaleva
(40,365 posts)One can read numerous wartime accounts of soldiers who were nicked by a bullet and just needed a bandage
aggiesal
(10,804 posts)I don't know what caliber of bullet was used, but if someone knows, can that bullet make a 4/5'' almost a 1'' wound?
sarisataka
(22,695 posts)is the 5.56x45mm NATO, also known as the .223 Remington (there is a very minor technical difference but are 99.9% interchangeable). A crazing wound by any caliber bullet can make a wound of that length
republianmushroom
(22,326 posts)FBI director suggests Donald Trump may not have been struck by bullet during assassination attempt at rally
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143278831
that is what happens to an ear hit by a .223 round.
republianmushroom
(22,326 posts)Report BLOWS HOLE In Trump's CLAIM That He Got Hit By Bullet
Why people think the Trump shooting was a conspiracy | If Youre Listening | ABC NEWS
DetroitLegalBeagle
(2,504 posts)Grazes don't mangle anything. They are basically cuts or deep scrapes. I've been grazed with a bullet larger then what trump was shot at with and the only damage was the graze and all it required was a bandage. He didn't take a direct hit, he got the gun shot equivalent of a paper cut.
Mike_in_LA
(192 posts)He reacted and cupped his ear BEFORE they took him down.
Definitely shrapnel of some sort, but a legit cut.
mucholderthandirt
(1,783 posts)As much as head wounds bleed, this was barely wet. Not a huge amount of blood by any measure. And he touched his ear, looked at his hand and then belly-flopped to the stage. The SS took far too long to reach him to have done him any damage.
The dumb fucker was hit by debris. He can claim his purple heart from the Bandaid stash left over from John Kerry's day. That's all it merited, it's all he deserves, if even that.
And yes, if this had been Biden, I would say the same thing. It was no worse than a shaving cut, in the grand scheme of things. But, Joe Biden wouldn't be acting like Trump. He probably would have pressed a gauze to his ear and said to stop worrying about him, he was fine. He's an adult. Trump is a whiny fucking baby.