It's not going to be Shapiro. There are many people who will say his Judaism and Zionism is political suicide right now

[DFab420]

Last edited Fri Aug 2, 2024, 07:15 PM - Edit history (2)

Its just too much of a hot button topic right now. If you want to win Michigan you need the white working class but ALSO the large Muslim population.

You ALSO want the youth vote and for whatever reason the youths have embraced Palestinian politics are part of their issue packages

Shapiro will remain in PA and run in 8 years.

It’s going to be Kelly.

Edit: please don’t just read the headline of my post. Read the whole thing. I’m simply pointing out what is already being discussed in the media at large for the love of God stop calling me an anti Semite it’s fucking gross.

[calimary]

1. I like Kelly well enough, but it'd pretty much be an all-West ticket.

But if he’s “it”, then he’s MY “it” too.

[questionseverything]

2. Shapiro would be political suicide

[getagrip_already]

105. There is very strong chattering class natter about dont put two firsts on a ticket....

A first black woman and a first jew. Or a first black woman and a first gay man.

While the country could easily elect a jew or a gay candidate, runing a combination of firsts at the same time is very risky.

And this not a conventional election. It is openly racist, openly homophobic, openly anti-semitic, openly only christian.

At least that is the consensys of the flapping jaws.

[PeaceWave]

148. I cannot, in good conscience, eliminate someone from consideration based on their religion.

First or no first.

[getagrip_already]

150. Nor should you...

I wasnt speaking for myself, just explaining a pov ive heard that makes some sense.

Other perspectives make equal if not more sense.

Certainly we should be well beyond this one by now. I hadnt even considered being jewish as a flash point until it was brought up. Probably ip inspired, which makes it even worse.

[BamaRefugee]

191. What about Joe Lieberman? Wouldn't he be the "first Jew"?

I know we're not supposed to bash Democrats but that guy was a terrible pick.

[getagrip_already]

197. He was, but gore wasnt a first anything....

Yeah, he was a vietnam vet, but there were other veteran presidents.

There was nothing unconventional about gore. And having lieberman on the ticket didnt seem to hurt his candidacy.

The supreme court is what hurt him. That, and that jerk running third party in florida.

[Diraven]

215. Everyone tries to forget about Lieberman

[kelly1mm]

251. The 1st time with VP Gore or the 2nd time with Sen. McCain? Or both? nt

[Upthevibe]

254. getagrip_already.........

As a gay woman, I COMPLETELY agree with you.

I'm leaning toward Kelly or Tim Walz.....

[chicoescuela]

3. You are probably right about Shapiro, though he is energetic and charismatic.

Kelly might be the safe way to go and everyone loves astronauts, but Pete is so friggin smart and quick on his feet. He easily destroys the right wing crazies on the Fox. This may not be a solid reason to select him however.

[DFab420]

244. I just wanted to take a second to thank you for seeing this post as intended and not attacking me personally like

so many today have been doing.

I didn't reply on Sunday but apparently the Friday night crew here is much angrier than the weekend posters.

[chicoescuela]

249. You're welcome. That's not my style. We need to get behind this ticket

no matter who is the VP nominee. I trust Harris to make the decision that is best for her and whipping up on tsf.

[edhopper]

4. I hate to agree

But that is the country we have.
Doug being Jewish, people will say she is surrounded by Jews.
It's a sad state of affairs.

[DFab420]

27. Sad but true.

[TnDem]

5. Yeah

It might be good for the electoral votes in PA, but not good for Democratic voters in Dearborn. I think it would cause more problems intra-party than it would solve.

There are less contentious choices.

[MichMan]

15. Dearborn would love a VP Tlaib.

[LeftInTX]

74. That's about the only place that would love her!

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

155. I would have liked an alternative in the MI-12 primary.

She ran unopposed. There were other contenders, but they didn't survive to get on the ballot.

So, MichMan, I respectfully disagree with you.'

[msongs]

16. the democratic voters in dearborn can just get over it IMO nt

[meadowlander]

22. This is where I'm getting myself.

Standing in a booth, how many Muslims are going to say "Four more years of Trump. He's the one to sort out Gaza."?

And if we get Pennsylvania and Georgia, we don't need Michigan.

[iemanja]

25. They can lodge protests votes

and many were planning on it. The question is if Biden's dropping out changes that.

[catbyte]

132. I hope they know that that thing promised to reinstate the Muslim ban to the US if he's elected.

If they think that thing would help the situation in Gaza, especially after his meeting with Netanyahu, they're nuts.

[Sky Jewels]

73. But it's not like there aren't other great options

who don’t come with controversy, like the school voucher thing. We need Gen Z to be enthused. Why put a damper on that when it isn’t necessary to do so?

[Demsrule86]

93. Shapiro can deliver Pennsylvania...a much win state...we need someone to help with the rustbelt.

I would also say some comments on this post are both anti-semitic and not supportive of Democrats.

[Upthevibe]

260. Demsrule86.....

I don't agree with you. I'm looking at the spirit in which the post was presented.

I don't think two firsts is the way to go this time (at all). I'm a gay woman and I think Pete is too iffy (as much as I love him).....It's just my opinion. I'm not anti-Semitic or homophobic.

[Lonestarblue]

121. I keep mentioning Andy Beshear. He doesn't bring a state, but he's amazing for being a winning Democrat in Kentucky.

[epreic01]

182. Agree

I feel like Andy could get us Penn MI WI, but could help deliver North Carolina, Georgia, maybe Iowa and Indiana?
I would be elated for almost any of them. Shapiro worries me. fair or unfair there’s too much noise against him. IMO let’s keep the momentum going…
But ultimately I trust her judgement.

[Ontheboundry]

227. Being from KY, how does Andy

Deliver anything at all outside Kentucky? I mean, Indiana? Georgia? Georgia Cam be won, but Andy won't move the needle at all there

Where is the connection there ? Shapiro gives you PA, Andy gives you....nothing as far I can see

[Demsrule86]

160. Shapiro delivers PA and why should allow a few anti-semitic protesters to tell us who our VP will be.

I think they are actually hurting peace efforts.

[Brenda]

195. NOT just the school voucher thing. Anyone here remember "Gasland?"

The 2010 documentary “Gasland” where one scene showed a resident lighting his tap water on fire?

The public water line for Dimock residents was part of a plea agreement reached by then-Attorney General Shapiro with the company involved, Coterra Energy, in 2022. Two years later, some Dimock residents still do not have clean running water. Kemble’s anger is not just about the water line, it’s also about the quiet decision by the Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection to lift a 12-year moratorium on fracking in the town the day after the agreement was announced, allowing Coterra to drill in the area once again.

Now, with Shapiro reportedly on Vice President Kamala Harris’ shortlist of potential running mates, Kemble and others in Dimock want the American public to know what happened to them—and why they feel betrayed by the governor.

From his handling of Dimock to his economic development plan supported by the American Petroleum Institute to a partnership with the fracking company CNX Resources, many environmental activists in the state are disappointed by Shapiro’s track record as governor. That disappointment is magnified by the tough stance he took on oil and gas companies as attorney general.

Since he became governor in 2023, Shapiro has “radically changed his environmental policy priorities and began to court fossil fuel companies,” Physicians for Social Responsibility Pennsylvania wrote this week in a new fact sheet about Shapiro’s “startling reversal on climate issues.”

In February 2023, the Conservation Voters of Pennsylvania heralded the election of an “environmental champion” as governor. Less than a year later, the same group was criticizing Shapiro’s economic plan as “a repackaging of the fossil fuel industry’s playbook in Pennsylvania.” Meanwhile, the American Petroleum Institute’s Pennsylvania arm endorsed Shapiro’s “shared goal” of “ leveraging our state’s abundant natural gas resources to help accelerate economic growth.

”https://insideclimatenews.org/news/26072024/potential-vice-presidential-pick-josh-shapiro-environmental-record/

[DFab420]

213. Yea that was a thought I had too.

Also thank you for not calling me antisemitic or a terrorist supporter. The vitriol here has kind of bummed me out.

[marybourg]

6. Kelly's wife is Jewish.

[Funtatlaguy]

11. Kamala's husband and step children are Jewish.

[marybourg]

12. Yes. But they aren't being compared to Shapiro. Kelly is.

[madaboutharry]

38. Doug's children are not Jewish.

Their mother is not Jewish, they were not raised in the Jewish faith, and most importantly neither of his children identify as Jews.

People are making an assumption that is not a fact.

[getagrip_already]

108. In the jewish faith, the mother determines your religion

The children would not be considered jewish unless they went through a formal conversion process.

Which they havent.

The jewish faith does recognize those children as jewish.

[marybourg]

117. Reform and conservative Judiasm are much

more liberal than that.

[getagrip_already]

122. Maybe.....

Ive been told reformed rabis will marry interfaith couples as long as the wife is jewish.

But we had to have a civil ceremony because im not jewish. And that was a reformed synagogue, so much so they no longer did bar mitzvahs. The rabi flat out refused to even participate in the civil ceremony.

Reality versus theory can be quite different.

[marybourg]

123. Yes, it can be very variable. But much less rigid

than Orthodox Judiasm. Especially in the last few years with something like 70% of Jews out marrying. Hence the large % of current (Christian) political figures with Jewish in-laws.

[DFab420]

30. Right but she won't be Vice President either...

[Cha]

67. And, Kamala's Husband is Jewish!

I think the OP is Offensive!.

[LAS14]

99. Why is it "offensive?" It's not denigrating Jews. nt

[Mountainguy]

134. "Judaism is political suicide"

Is incredibly offensive.

And arguing with someone who is Jewish saying they are offended by that isn't much better.

[Cha]

147. Thank You, MG... I'm not gong to reply

to that.. TY for your excellent response.

[lapucelle]

172. Given that every single VP contender is a Zionist, as are Biden and Harris,

the issue seems to hinge on the fact that Shapiro is a Jew.

Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel.

https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/zionism

[tavernier]

7. Walz is suddenly moving up.

Great sense of humor.

[BComplex]

76. Walz is now my first choice. Since I've been seeing videos of him giving speeches, I'm totally in with him.

Nothing controversial about him for the most part. Just good midwestern humor and totally qualified.

[WiVoter]

185. Same Here

[NBachers]

77. I've gone from "Walz? Who's he?" to "Walz is my first choice." The way he communicates is a total winning ticket.

[spooky3]

127. I like him and Buttigieg. Nt

[onecaliberal]

8. How is this allowed to stand? Really DU?

This place keeps going downhill.

[DFab420]

24. Yes how can we allow hard conversations about politics on this political website

I mean, give me a break.

[onecaliberal]

29. Read the tos.

[DFab420]

32. Show me where I'm violating the ToS.

[VMA131Marine]

187. Trashing a Democratic politician!

Clear violation.

[Demsrule86]

107. I am sorry...but this is bigotry. We are Democrats...we don't do that.

[Demsrule86]

174. Attacking a popular governor for his religion is not a hard conversation.

[Demsrule86]

98. I don't know. I find it disgusting.

I understand and I am sure Kamala understands how important Pennsylvania is. We can't win without it. And I don't want to hear that we need to practice anti-semitism in order to gain voters anywhere. Some of the protestors carried pro-Hamas signs and burned American flags. I have no desire to cater to them. Our party doesn't do that. I can't believe this thread is trying to see who is Jewish so they can be eliminated from the VP choice...it is sickening.

[LAS14]

100. What, precisely, is wrong with the OP? It does not denigrate Jews. It just states...

... an opinion about the way the world works which might be based in reality.

[Demsrule86]

109. What we are going have litmus test if one is Jewish or not? I find it disgusting and has no place in the Democratic

Party.

[JohnSJ]

131. Yes it is. There is absolutely no difference between the policies President Biden and

VP Harris. Did anyone listen to her speech on the middle east?

Those same young people who are calling President Biden "genocide joe", are going to feel the same way about a President Harris. The reality is a large percentage of those protesters do not think Israel should exist.

The comment, "Democrats are going to lose the young people's vote if she chooses a Jewish VP", is comparable to those who are saying if Pete Buttigieg is chosen, we will lose also.

President Obama would have never been President as the first African American President if we listened to the argument made by some.

In 2000, and more so 2016, we were so afraid of losing because of the greens and those on the far left, that we opened the door to Cornell West, and other non-Democrats to be on the DNC rules committee. That worked out real. After Hillary won the nomination, Cornell West immediately left and endorsed Jill Stein. That was shortly followed by Nina Turner, David SIrota, Brihana Joy Gray, etc., all who had prominent positions as part of the challengers' campaign for the Democratic nomination to proclaim they would not vote for the Democratic nominee in 2016.

When you start playing that game, you will get bogged down playing both sides, and no one will be happy.

According to the polls there are as many as 5-10% supporting rfk jr. With that logic I guess we need to appeal to the anti-vaxer, conspiracy laden community.

Anyone who refuses to vote for VP Harris because of her choice of VP, is voting for trump. It is as simple as that.

[Demsrule86]

177. Excellent post John .I agree completely. And Nina Turner is one of the 'leaders'. She and her followers will never vote

for us...ask Jamal Bowman how important the Palestinian protest vote is.

[Demsrule86]

178. The only difference between Shapiro and the others if that he is Jewish. I find it disgusting.

I rec'd you post. It was excellent. Thanks.

[NH Ethylene]

130. People are talking about political calculations.

The Isreal-Palestinian conflict is a sensitive topic nationwide and it's important the VP choice doesn't alienate entire groups of people.

[Demsrule86]

164. Who decides that?

[NH Ethylene]

171. The VP pick is decided by Harris.

I'm sure she is receiving lots of input.

[Demsrule86]

181. That is true...so why is sliming a popular Democratic governor a good thing...and it sure as hell looks like

anti-semitism to me...all the candidates are 'zionists'...so why is Shapiro singled out...Is it because he is Jewish?
'

[onecaliberal]

217. This.

[TBF]

212. It literally makes me ill.

I'd love to do an OP stating I don't think both the president and VP should be Christian, it would just be too much, and see how folks would react. I'm sure THAT would be hidden.

[marybourg]

9. So we have come to this. We can't have a Jewish V.P.

But it isn’t REALLY antisemitism. And they aren’t REALLY Hamas supporters. It’s just . . . just. . .

[DemocratInPa]

18. He has alot of baggage, that will be a huge topic..

I have no issue if this was the a regular election, but this close to the election, I just don't want to take a chance..

Look what the media did to Biden.

[emulatorloo]

28. 'under-30 voters listed "Israel/Palestine" 15th among the 16 "major issues" they were asked to rank"

May 2: Gaza and the 2024 Presidential Election
by Ed Kilgore, May 2nd, 2024 5:50 PM EST

https://thedemocraticstrategist.org/2024/05/may-2-gaza-and-the-2024-presidential-election/

But is the Israel-Hamas war a voting issue — or a reason not to vote at all — for enough people to greatly affect the outcome of the November election? The available data on issue saliency doesn’t provide much evidence that it’s top of mind for that many voters.

A March 29 Gallup survey asked respondents to identify “the most important issue facing the country today.” “War in the Middle East” tied for 13th with just 2 percent.

Perhaps the most startling data comes from the very credible large-sample Harvard Youth Poll released on April 19:

“Poll results showed that two issues closely associated with under-30 voters — the Israel-Hamas war and student debt relief — may not be especially consequential ones when it comes to casting votes.

To be more specific, under-30 voters listed “Israel/Palestine” 15th among the 16 “major issues” they were asked to rank in importance. Pew’s March survey on the subject noted low interest and information levels on the Middle East in the same age cohort:

“Just 14% of those under 50 say they are following the war extremely or very closely, roughly half the share among those over 50 (30%). Consistent with their lower levels of attention, younger Americans are also less likely to know key facts about the ongoing war, based on their responses to three knowledge questions included on the survey.”

[Uncle Joe]

54. I believe it all depends on how severe the slaughter or genocide in Gaza becomes by November

We're well above 40+thousand now with famine and disease coming on.

If the current dynamics continue, what's the ceiling?

There were 2.3 million Palestinians in Gaza on October 7th.

[elias7]

88. 40+ thousand innocents? Or is that the totality of all deaths including Hamas and civilians killed by Hamas misfires?

Why are American Jews being punished for the Israel-Palestinian conflict? As a Jew, should I be thinking of leaving the country? Where do you propose I go? Back to the Jewish empire that colonized the Middle East?

[Uncle Joe]

139. The fresh water infrastructure has been destroyed along with virtually every hospital in Gaza; an area roughly the size

of Philadelphia wherein the Palestinians are being told multiple times as they're experiencing both famine and disease to move to so called "safe zones" only to be bombed or shot there as "fish being shot in a "barrel."

The doctors, medical community, aid workers and journalists have been deliberately targeted.

The Jewish people in Israel and here in the U.S. are not in any danger of facing genocide or expulsion, Israel is the best armed nation in the region with nuclear weapons and the United States as its' strongest ally.

As they're literally facing facing extinction now by IDF the question today is where should the Palestinians go?

Maybe Jared Kushner; *rump's son in law, former shadow diplomat, post Presidential recipient of 2+ billion dollars of MBS's Saudi money and long time family friend of Netanyahu has some ideas?

[elias7]

267. I don't know where you get your intel from, but Israel is NOT targeting civilians

Quite frankly, cause it would not have a water or food problem if they used the millions and millions of dollars sent to them by Iran and other countries for infrastructure rather than diverting them to greeting the world’s largest terror base. People have been accusing the Jews of genocide for decades while the Gaza and West Bank populations explode. Israel is just not good at genocide. A lot has to do with the fact that they keep announcing that they’re going to bomb occupied buildings so that innocent civilians can get out in time.

But you can do your own fact checking, since Israel is either a) warning civilians by knocking on rooftops, spreading leaflets, text messages, phone calls before bombing domiciles, hospitals, schools that Hamas uses to stage attacks from OR b) they are not. They have lost more than their share of IDF conscripts who have gone into Gaza by ground so as not to level the place and be targeted in their war. You can probably fact check that too if you’re inclined to see past a radical Islamist propaganda agenda.

A llittle research into urban warfare and using citizens as shields would reveal that Israel has gone above and beyond any other country in modern history in trying to avoid collateral damage. Of course, that would require getting news from somewhere other than Palestinian sympathetic sources.

When you say the Jewish people here in the US are not in any danger of facing exposure or genocide, I might differ with you. I am sending a daughter to college this fall and I’m very nervous given the degree of antisemitism on campus these days. Perhaps you haven’t come across the right news sources, but most Jewish students in the university setting are facing extreme levels of bullying and harassment, which would not seem to be related to the Israel/Gaza problem unless of course, anti-Semitism.

[Demsrule86]

128. Too bad. If you want to consider funding and the amount of votes in play...consider there are larger population of

Jewish Americans. And without these votes, we would surely lose. They have already pulled votes and money from some who embraced 'antizionism'. It goes both ways.

[Demsrule86]

165. These protesters do not get to decide who our VP is. I am not impressed with much of their behavior:

Harassing Jewish students, having pro-Hamas signs, and burning American flags.

[LeftInTX]

170. I know . Gallup poll from 2019

I like Shapiro. I do wish he had some experience in federal govt.

Kamala is gonna improve turnout among AA and younger voters in Michigan.
This should cancel the loud voices out.

[Torchlight]

92. Media really did use a lot of meritless criticisms about Biden's age.

I'm sure though, they'll never stand in front of those criticisms at this point in the game, and just continue to cower behind those implications.

[Demsrule86]

112. His religion or lack there of...is not nor ever will be baggage...not in my Democratic Party.

[Cosmocat]

140. Huh?

He has no more "baggage" than any other candidate.

[debm55]

144. Care to list his baggage. I live in PA and know of none. I know as AG of PA during the last election Josh did not give

in to Trump's goons and called the state for Biden. PS I voted for Shapero

[crimycarny]

240. Google "Shapiro sexual harrassment"

The media is already trying to make this a huge deal out of this. There are articles as recent as today.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/aide-josh-shapiro-allegedly-invoked-pennsylvania-governors-threat/story?id=112455873

https://penncapital-star.com/government-politics/womens-group-says-kamala-harris-should-consider-how-pennsylvania-josh-shapiro-handled-2023-sexual-harassment-complaint-against-aide/

A new lawsuit by a news outlet requesting more information was filed on July 14th.

As we all know, it doesn't matter to the media what the facts are. They love exaggeration and innuendo and are drooling for a chance to stir up drama.

[Demsrule86]

158. What baggage? I know of none...I used to live in PA and now live in Ohio...I can almost walk to PA.

Support Democrats.

[Demsrule86]

186. He does not despite the lies and innuendo being tossed about here...and of course the out and out lies.

And if he is the nominee, I hope you will support him completely. It is not our choice. It's our newly minted Nominee, no longer the presumptive nominee's choice. She has the votes!

[crimycarny]

243. When has that ever mattered to the media?

I'm not as concerned about those on "pro-Palestinian" side as I am of criticisms about his handling of a sexual assault victim. The victim herself just came out stating that her abuser told her:

"You are going to continue to be nothing by the time Josh and I get done with you," the woman quoted Vereb as saying, telling ABC News that she was left "shaken" by the way in which Vereb "freely" referenced others in power.

This is in an ABC report posted just 3 hours ago.

The ABC article further states:

News of the alleged 2018 incident, which has not been previously reported, comes as Shapiro emerges as a leading contender to become Vice President Kamala Harris' presidential running mate on the Democratic ticket.

The media is already digging up dirt for a smear campaign and they will innuendo to the hilt an alleged "cover-up" by Shapiro. It doesn't matter how untrue it is, it has all the sexy gossip the media LOVES. I don't want to see Harris/Shapiro start out on defense.

[emulatorloo]

23. +++++

[PeaceWave]

26. Thank you for saying this. I too can't believe what I'm reading...

Being Jewish is NOT a liability. Just as being gay is NOT a liability for Mayor Pete. We want to live in a merit based society.

[brush]

72. A ticket with a woman as pres., a Black woman at that, and a Jewish VP?

Last edited Mon Jul 29, 2024, 02:16 AM - Edit history (2)

We do live in America, where misogyny, racism and antisemitism still exists among many voters. That's three factors that increase the difficulty of getting VP Harris elected to the presidency. All those factors of course don't exist in all of those voters, but we do need to pick up some of them IMO so it's smarter not to include all of those factors on our ticket.

Standing on principle is a good thing, in principle, but it's not pragmatic in this case.

We want to win, not feel good individually about ourselves for standing on principle. Let's take one for the Democratic team.

[Demsrule86]

161. Serioiusly? I am beyond disgusted by many of the posts I read here....Shapiro is out campaigning today and

knocking it out of the part. He is likely the VP nominee.

[brush]

163. Be disgusted. But vote for whoever VP Harris picks from our deep bench of choices.

[Demsrule86]

184. I always do...but I would hope the despicable posts from some...not saying you stop.

[LAS14]

101. That's right. It's not anti-semitism. And hamas supporters? Is that the kind..

... of rational conversation a lot of us look for on DU?

[Sugarcoated]

10. I think its going to be Shapiro

His assets outweigh his deficits. He and Harris are close friends and I think that's going to be the decider. My opinion.

[MaryMagdaline]

13. Dearborn is important but so is Bloomfield Hills.

Lots of suburban white women worry about Israel. They don’t like Netanyahu and they might want a Two State solution but they’re not comfortable with anti-Jewish bias.
It’s a tough, tough call.

[democrattotheend]

14. OTOH, putting Shapiro on the ticket could give Harris cover to be a little less pro-Israel than Biden or Trump

If, as it appears, she is staking out a position that's more sympathetic to the Palestinian cause, putting Shapiro on the ticket could help reassure Jewish voters, who are also important, especially in Pennsylvania.

[DFab420]

33. That's actually an interesting point I hadn't considered

[karynnj]

143. Very well said, but consider the Evangelicals.

I hadn't thought of that, but Harris with a religious Jewish VP and a Jewish husband would be difficult to paint as antisemitic, although Trump already went there.

One problem is that supporting Israeli Likkud policy is more an evangelical issue than a Jewish one. Netanyahu realized years ago that he has more knee jerseys support among evangelical Americans than American Jews

[democrattotheend]

151. True, but many of us left-wing Jews who oppose Netanyahu still feel uncomfortable

With the anti-Israel boycotts and anti-Semitic (oh sorry, I meant "anti-Zionist&quot rhetoric from some parts of the left. In 2003, I wanted to go to anti-war protests but ended up never going because they always got hijacked by anti-Israel speeches that I just didn't feel comfortable lending a body to. Even my grandma, who was further left than I was and more secular, felt uncomfortable after going to one of the rallies. The fact that some of that rhetoric is now becoming more mainstream is scary for many of us, even though we despise Netanyahu and Likud.

[karynnj]

156. I get what you are saying, but do you have a problem with Harris or any on the VP rumor lost?

[democrattotheend]

167. No, I trust her enough on Israel

I wish she would have mentioned the human suffering on both sides after her meeting with Netanyahu Thursday, but I still trust her to be supportive enough of Israel. But that's just me, and I also do not vote solely (or even primarily) on this issue.

I'm not sure what the rest of your question was?

[Demsrule86]

159. You do know Israel was attacked by Hezbollah? Also Zionism just means Israel has the right to

exist...so those who claim to be anti-Zionist think Israel has no right to exist. It is anti-semitic and I never thought I would see it here.

[democrattotheend]

166. That was exactly my point

That some people say they have nothing against Jews, just Zionists. But most Jews, even those of us on the left, consider ourselves Zionists, so it feels like thinly veiled anti-Semitism.

[DFab420]

179. It's insane how people don't seem to understand how scary it's been

I’ve got people on this very board attacking me as anti semitic and a Hamas supporter and its like… dude I’m Jewish, can we all maybe calm down a bit??

Thats why I think Shapiro’s pick would amp up the hostility towards jewish folk in the country. You know trump would seize on it in a heart beat

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

17. I believe there are a lot of Jewish voters. nt

[marybourg]

20. A lot of whom are nervous and ambivalent about stirring up

the very kind of antisemitism we’re starting to see and are not particularly rooting for Shapiro for that reason.

[democrattotheend]

71. I'm Jewish and I don't completely disagree

This is going to sound silly now, given how much of a letdown he ended up being, but I'll never forget how proud and excited I felt at age 16 when Gore picked Lieberman to be his running mate. But I feel more scared now of anti-Semitism than I did then, and there's a part of me that doesn't want Shapiro to be picked because I don't want to have to deal with more anti-Semitism from the far left as well as the far right.

OTOH, given that Kamala seems more sympathetic to the Palestinians than Biden, part of me would feel better having a VP who was more strongly pro-Israel like Shapiro.

[marybourg]

120. Hence "ambivalent ".

[Demsrule86]

162. So...you think Jews are stirring up antisemitism. Tell me how Jews should behave? I suppose they should keep silent...

Do you understand what you just said? Judaism is a religion. And Americans can worship as they choose and they don't have to live in fear of 'drawing' attention to themselves.

[marybourg]

169. I don't know if you purposely misunderstood my post,

or if I don’t express myself as well as I should, but here is another persons take on the subject:

“But Jews being Jews, naches (pride) and shpilkes (anxiety) often go hand in hand. Some are worried about feeding into tropes about Jewish power. Or they don’t want to cost their party the election, should voters balk at a ticket that includes a woman of color and, in Shapiro’s case, an observant Jew.

Ultimately, it’s a question of whether such visibility is (you knew it was coming) good for the Jews.”


https://www.jta.org/2024/07/23/politics/heres-why-jews-are-excited-and-nervous-about-a-democratic-ticket-that-could-include-another-jew?utm_source=JTA_Maropost&utm_campaign=JTA_Sunday_Ideas&utm_medium=email&mpweb=1161-75204-20856

[DavidDvorkin]

19. Shapiro has historically had a very good relationship with Pennsylvania's Muslim community

Which is second in size in the US to Michigan's.

[elleng]

31. Yes, posted earlier: from Forward: Shapiro's position on Gaza tests close bonds with Arab, Muslim community.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/122315591

[DavidDvorkin]

63. Huh. That's probably where I read it.

[Cha]

69. Oh Good to Know.. TY!

[LAS14]

103. I've been wondering if this might not be the case, knowing nothing of Shapiro up to this point. nt

[gab13by13]

21. Think I read that

Shapiro and Gretchen Whitmer are campaigning together in the Philly suburbs for Kamala, I think tomorrow.
What does that do for Michigan?
Maybe I read it wrong?

[DFab420]

37. Cool, campaigning for a candidate isn't the same as being on the ticket.

[LostOne4Ever]

34. Shapiro is a great VP pick

Trying to say that he is a bad pick because he is Jewish (or as other OPs have claimed that Pete is a bad pick because he is Gay) is bullshit.

This is the Democratic Party! We fight against bigotry. The type of people who wouldn’t vote for a ticket because a candidate is Jewish or Gay wouldn’t ever vote Democratic in the first place.

[DFab420]

39. There are aspirations and then there are real world politics

Just pointing out the current temperature of the political situation in this country

[LostOne4Ever]

43. The real world implication is that the type of people who would be swayed by that...

…won’t EVER vote Democratic in the first place.

They will vote either Republican (the traditional antisemites) or Green (tankie antisemites). Nothing we do will change that.

[DFab420]

45. Or youth votes who won't vote for people with pro-zionism politics

Or Muslim votes etc.

[emulatorloo]

48. Did you read the polling article or the quotes I posted? Did you read the posts about Shapiro's relationships w muslim

groups posted by David and Ellen. I understand you have your mind made up, but there are facts in evidence that counter that.

Polling shows I/P isn’t as big an issue (even with young voters) as you may feel it is.





Here are links to Ellen and David’s posts. Back in a sec!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19254708

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19254826

Ellen links to:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/122315591

[LostOne4Ever]

50. Those youths are the tankie antisemites I mentioned

They won’t ever vote democratic. They vote green.

Actual young liberals and progressives (the ones who will vote for us) have a more Bernie Sanders view…and he endorsed Harris!

[ColinC]

51. It's driving me crazy. Nobody questioned it when we had two Christian runningmates for more than 200 years.

[DFab420]

36. Me pointing out difficult issues doesn't make me antisemitic and

The personal attacks are pretty obnoxious

[emulatorloo]

40. See my post #28. I believe you are overstating the importance of I/P to most voters, including youth

youth voters.

Also several people have pointed out to you the good relationships Shapiro has with muslim communities.

X and Twitter excessive noise don’t necessarily reflect real world voters.

[tenderfoot]

41. He's all about private school vouchers which is a minus imho

Last edited Sun Jul 28, 2024, 11:56 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm bewildered as to why so many Democrats support such a thing.

[emulatorloo]

42. His position is private school vouchers CANNOT and WILL NOT affect PUBLIC SCHOOL FUNDING.

So that’s significantly different than the way you have characterized it.

[elleng]

44. I think you'll find out he is NOT 'all about private school vouchers,'

his success goes much further than that.

[lapucelle]

176. Shapiro line-item vetoed a voucher provision in the PA state budget.

Shapiro ultimately line-item vetoed the funding amid a budget impasse between the Democratic-controlled state House and the GOP-controlled state Senate.

To date, Shapiro has not signed any voucher legislation into law.

https://www.cityandstatepa.com/politics/2024/07/shapiros-stance-school-vouchers-comes-under-focus-amid-vp-speculation/398333/

[Cha]

209. Mahalo lapucelle! I'm saving this for my journal.. TY!

Last edited Fri Aug 2, 2024, 06:24 PM - Edit history (1)

Shapiro ultimately line-item vetoed the funding amid a budget impasse between the Democratic-controlled state House and the GOP-controlled state Senate.

To date, Shapiro has not signed any voucher legislation into law.

https://www.cityandstatepa.com/politics/2024/07/shapiros-stance-school-vouchers-comes-under-focus-amid-vp-speculation/398333/

From your link.. Snip..

To date, Shapiro has not signed any voucher legislation into law.

Manuel Bonder, a spokesperson for Shapiro, highlighted the governor’s accomplishments on public education in a statement.

“In his time in office, Governor Shapiro has consistently delivered historic increases in public education funding and finally, after decades of inaction, moved Pennsylvania towards adequately and equitably funding our public schools,” Bonder said. “Despite being the only Governor in the nation with a divided legislature – and despite bad faith attacks from all sides – Josh Shapiro has been a champion for public education and delivered real results.”

In the state's most recent budget, signed into law on July 11, Shapiro championed and celebrated increases for public education funding, including a $225 million increase in basic education funding through the state’s Fair Funding Formula, bringing the state’s total basic education funding allocation to $8.1 billion. The budget also included a $100 million increase in special education funding, as well as new “adequacy” and “tax equity” allocations of $493 million and $32 million, respectively.

Mahalo for Shining the Light, lapucelle.. Once again.

[lapucelle]

219. Mahalo, Cha. Governor Shapiro is being examined under a microscope

and this is the best that oppo researchers can come up. It's pretty week sauce.

By the way, ALL of the VP contenders, as well as President Biden and Vice President Harris, are Zionists, so the headline that Shapiro's Zionism is "political suicide" dead wrong on that count.

[Cha]

224. Yeah "Zionist" only means we believe Isarael has a right to Exist.. Who

Doesn't believe that?! Never mind.. I know.

💙

[Nimble_Idea]

46. so you equate Judaism with political suicide

got it..........

I saw that same sentiment on another site.........where was that...........hmm..........

[DFab420]

62. A complete misrepresentation of my position but go off G.

[Nimble_Idea]

90. nah brah, it's exactly what you wrote

not sure why anyone is engaging with you if you can't even reference your own writing.

ignored.

[Demsrule86]

113. Those were your words.

[emulatorloo]

125. That's what you wrote in your thread title though.

[Hekate]

206. Do you listen to yourself?

[onecaliberal]

137. Comment was allowed to stand. Let that sink in.

[ColinC]

47. I'm sorry but these "he's too Jewish to be vp" posts are coming off really anti semitic

A person’s religion has NOTHING to do with their policies!

[tritsofme]

138. They are not just coming off as anti-Semitic, they are anti-Semitic.

[LexVegas]

49. Anti-Zionism is antisemitism. nt

[LAS14]

106. ????????????????????? nt

[Demsrule86]

115. It is code for anti-semitism.

[LAS14]

118. Unless it's not. nt

[Demsrule86]

126. It is exactly the same.

So if some opine at great length about anti-zionism...know that they really are antisemitic...it is code...they think it makes their bigotry OK, it doesn't.

[Tribetime]

52. I think it will be Walz

[emulatorloo]

56. Walz would be good! Pretty much any of them will be good, and I trust VP Harris to pick the right one.

[Tribetime]

57. I agree 100 %

[orthoclad]

53. Zionism?

More info, please.
Judaism is not Zionism, and vice-versa, though there is overlap.
Then there are the xristian evangos who want Israel to slaughter the indigenous, and talk about God's Chosen People.
We should know more about his views on genocide.

[marybourg]

58. I'm sure he abhors genocide, as do most people who support Israel's

right to defend itself from an existential threat.

[orthoclad]

60. Doesn't answer my question, thanks

[marybourg]

61. I answered it, but I guess it wasn't the answer you wanted.

[Haggard Celine]

83. They're taking a literal view

of a series of allegories and running their lives according to the myths they read about in the Bible's pages. They have no real knowledge of the Bible and its stories, at least the don't have a symbolic knowledge of the Bible. Those little stories they taught us in Sunday School are just about all that most people get, and never is there any hint of a deeper meaning to some of the stories. Of course, the person teaching the Sunday School for children probably has about as much knowledge as one of the children.

[orthoclad]

129. I get the general idea of Zionism,

I was wondering about Shapiro's take on it. Not very familiar with him. I should have been more specific.

btw, a long time ago I read that some early Zionists (1800s) had proposed Texas for a location. If only... But there would still have been an indigenous issue.

btw btw, I recently re-read Leviathan. "This is the dawning of the age of Bavaria..." . Lake Totenkopf, indeed. Deutsch for Deadhead, literally, but translates as "skull". I like your handle.

[FeelingBlue]

55. Can we afford ...

To lose a Dem in the Senate?!?!

[marybourg]

59. We won't be losing a Dem. He will be replaced by a Dem.

[elocs]

114. With a special election in '26 and then another election in '28 at what would have been the end of Kelly's

original term. It's a consideration.

[MyMission]

64. As a Jew, I agree with you

Shapiro is great. I really appreciate the support I've seen for him as VP. And I know he is not the best VP candidate, because he's Jewish. Especially given the war in Israel and the strong anti-Israel sentiment which too often translates to antisemitism. It will turn more people off than folks realize.

I think the country is more ready to elect a young gay man, who is a veteran.
I also like Walz, as he is a veteran too.
Kelly, another veteran rounds out my top 3, although he's not as charismatic as the other 2.
I like Shapiro, but I don't think the country is ready at this time.

I thank you for pointing out what is obvious to me. I wish it wasn't so.

[DFab420]

65. I do too! I wish we weren't in a place where it matters but

It just unfortunately does.

I believe he will continue to serve the people of PA well and someday soon has the potential to be a history making POTUS

[JI7]

70. Based on the same voters that the OP is worried about we would have to exclude Buttigieg also.

[LeftInTX]

75. They will go vote for a Jewish VP before they vote for a gay VP

I hear you about Gaza etc, much of it is directed at Biden. Harris is different. She is black. There is this weird black-muslim alliance that goes back to the Nation of Islam and Malcom X. If Muslims turn on Harris, they could disrupt this old alliance.

[Celerity]

79. No. There are around 200 million black Muslims, almost none are in the Nation of Islam. It's a tiny AF (less than 50,000

members) group of racist, misogynistic crackpots who are despised by the VAST majority of Muslims, who hold them (NOI) to be in a state of apostasy.

As a mixed race black female myself, I find what you said here:

Harris is different. She is black. There is this weird black-muslim alliance that goes back to the Nation of Islam and Malcom X.

to not only be ill-informed but downright offensive. (and I am trying my best to not really say what is on my mind).

This board just kills me at times.

[LeftInTX]

80. Nation of Islam is a black religious group in the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beliefs_and_theology_of_the_Nation_of_Islam#:~:text=The%20Nation%20of%20Islam%20(NOI,as%20a%20new%20religious%20movement.

Louis Farrakhan is their current leader.

The NOI teaches that there has been a succession of mortal gods, each a black man named Allah, of whom Fard Muhammad is the most recent. It claims that the first Allah created the earliest humans, the Arabic-speaking, dark-skinned Tribe of Shabazz, whose members possessed inner divinity and from whom all people of color are descended. It maintains that a scientist named Yakub then created the white race. The whites lacked inner divinity, and were intrinsically violent; they overthrew the Tribe of Shabazz and achieved global dominance. Setting itself against the white-dominated society of the United States, the NOI campaigns for the creation of an independent African American nation-state, and calls for African Americans to be economically self-sufficient and separatist. A millenarian tradition, it maintains that Fard Muhammad will soon return aboard a spaceship, the "Mother Plane" or "Mother Ship," to wipe out the white race and establish a utopia. Members worship in buildings called mosques or temples. Practitioners are expected to live disciplined lives, adhering to strict dress codes, specific dietary requirements, and patriarchal gender roles.

Farrakhan blames Jews for the slave trade, plantation slavery, Jim Crow, sharecropping and general black oppression. Farrakhan’s tone grew more belligerent in June 2010, when he sent letters to several leaders of the Jewish community as well as the Southern Poverty Law Center demanding that they acknowledge the evils they have perpetrated and that they work to further Farrakhan’s goals. The letter ended with a threat to “ruin and destroy your power and influence here and throughout the world” if his terms were not met. https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/louis-farrakhan

[Celerity]

82. Do not condescend to me please. I know exactly who and what the Nation of Islam is.

They are a very tiny, overall powerless (to any remote degree) group of racist, misogynist cranks.

Your attempt to tie us black folk, plus Muslims in general, plus Vice President Harris into some fantasyland expansive scheme of control is ridiculous and, I repeat, offensive to me (and I am sure a lot of other black folk as well as Muslims of any racial or ethnic background).

[LeftInTX]

84. The Arabs know if they lose black support it will hurt them significantly.

They are pulling the same stuff with Latinos also.

Latinos are convinced that the people in Gaza are "like Latinos". Trust me. I know alot about the Latino community.

Hence some of the protests are likely to settle down with Kamala campaigning. I have not heard any complaints from the Gaza protesters about Kamala. They sure complain about Biden. I didn't hear them complain after she met with Netanyahu.

[Celerity]

86. None of that has a anything to do with the lunatic fringe Nation of Islam.

Also, in terms of raw numbers, there are far more white Americans who take offence with what the ultra RW Netanyahu regime is doing in Gaza and the West Bank than there are black and Latino Americans who do. Many black and Latino Americans are pretty conservative Christian (religiously conservative Catholic and/or southern black evangelical) and thus often (obviously not always though) default to support of Israel.

I feel pretty confident that you could add in Arab Americans in terms of total numbers (obviously not percentage though) as well, as they only number around 3.5 million or so in toto.

[LeftInTX]

87. Religion isn't the main issue. It's a weird thing.

Arabs try to equate Palestine with slavery. This has been going on for a very long time and for many decades it was completely fringe, but it has been quietly seeping through society. It's been a way for Arabs to get support. It started in the 1960s.

[MyMission]

135. I think it's the opposite

I think more people would vote for a gay VP over a Jewish one.

I'm a numbers person.
We have 3 times as many LGBTQ as Jews in the US population, as I discovered when I googled.

A 2022 Gallup poll concluded that 7.1% of adult Americans identified as LGBT.

As of 2020, the American Jewish population is estimated at 7.5 million people, accounting for 2.4% of the total US population.

Both groups have friends and family who are supportive advocates, but by virtue of the numbers the LGBTQ community has more.

Both groups are immersed throughout our society. The majority of Dems would support either candidate. Non-Dems (and non voters) may be swayed based on the VP pick. As a Jew, I am sadly familiar with antisemitic tropes, and I must point out the "Jews secretly in control" trope which would cause (too) many to not vote for Shapiro. The fact that Kamala's husband is Jewish is tolerable to some who would not want vote for another Jew, lest we have too much power.

If the war in Israel hadn't happened, or if i still lived in NYC where I was born and raised, I might believe the US is ready to elect a Jew to such a high office. Not this time around, but hopefully in the future. May i live to see the day! Odds are good.

[LeftInTX]

153. Homophobia is much more ingrained. I've seen it from my kids.

Last edited Mon Jul 29, 2024, 03:54 PM - Edit history (2)

Just spoke with a friend last night. She refuses to let people at her work know because she's afraid of harassment.


The protestors are a very loud but a very small group.


The percentage who support Israel in the war (80%) are more than who would support a gay president. (50%) And this a freak'n unpopular war.
https://thehill.com/policy/international/4629597-americans-israel-hamas-gaza-student-protests-poll/
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/30/pete-buttigieg-gay-president-poll-061350

Update, found support for a Jewish president from 2019. It's 93% versus 74% for a gay president. The support for a Jewish president is higher than support for an evangelical president!

[MyMission]

157. Who do the haters hate more?!?

Sadly they have enough hate to spread it liberally.
I appreciate the statistics you provided.

We have no say in who they choose as a VP candidate, Kamala and her advisors. Or maybe the DNC is polling members.
Still, we can't help ourselves voicing opinions. My biggest hope is they will pick a veteran.
I'm sure they're looking at many factors, taking a lot into consideration.
So many good ones to choose from!

Whoever it is, I will support the ticket.
I feel like I'm waiting for the big reveal.
I'm excited about finding out who it will be and moving forward, campaigning for the ticket!

Until then I have my favorites and least favorites for various reasons, as we all do here.
Anticipation...is keeping me waiting!

[questionseverything]

214. The poll you posted was about supporting Israel over Hamas

So I am really surprised it was only 80%

[Brenda]

198. Thank you for putting it into perspective with numbers.

It's really disgusting that a handful of people are trying to make this about antisemitism which it obviously is not.

[lees1975]

66. Kelly's wife, like Harris' husband, is Jewish.

I think the question isn't whether he's Jewish or not. So is Bernie Sanders, and he's one of the most vocal opponents of Netanyahu and the Gaza War. It's where does he stand, as a Democrat, when it comes to his position on Israel/Gaza and the war.

[LAS14]

111. How does Shapiro's position get known as well as Sanders'?

I'm not saying it can't be. I'm just saying it would be a good thing if it could be. If it is a balanced as people up thread have said. Given the stupidity of the American electorate, I'm wondering if someone with the name "Sanders" has an easier time projecting his position that a peson with the name "Shapiro." Really wondering, not trying to hide my opinion in a question. I'd like to know how professional campaigners weigh these things.

[JI7]

68. We should stop supporting lgbt rights becsuse those same voters

actually stopped supporting Biden before the Oct 7 attacks becsuse of their opposition to lgbt rights. Check out who was protesting books on lgbt in schools.

Biden won Jewish voters and black voters and many other groups. Would these people ever refer to Biden as genocide joe if they were upset with Biden ?

Most of these people are supporting Trump or someone else.

And there are Jewish people in Michigan also.

I can understand reasonable opposition. For example Shapiro's position on vouchers and Kelly on unions. But fuck the bigots. And based on wanting to apoeal to this same group we would have to exclude Pete Buttigieg also.

[RandySF]

78. Stop

[FlyingPiggy]

81. I disagree. No one candidate will be perfect. I admit I am not familiar with Shapiro so I will hold judgement.

I’m going to trust her and her team’s decision for VP.

[OnDoutside]

85. And that's it, there's no one candidate who has a perfect

résumé or ability, though they're all very capable in their own way.

Michigan might be an issue but Pennsylvania is a critical state too.

[elias7]

89. Not a good time to be a Jew in America. Oh well, it was good while it lasted. Back to square one.

[Demsrule86]

91. What you just said does not support Democrats...And calling Shapiro a Zionist is bigtoted. How dare you?

[LAS14]

94. I've been wondering why I hadn't seen any mention of this. nt

[DFab420]

141. I mean, I've been called a Hamas supporter and an anti-semite

Just for pointing out the very same political arithmetic that others have.

[Demsrule86]

173. Your posts could be viewed as antisemitic..although I am not saying they are. I do feel it is a needless attack on a

Democrat. If as I expect Shapiro is the nominee, you and others will have to dial it back. We must support our candidates. Personally, I believe the attacks on Shapiro---a popular Democrat are wrong. One can prefer another and not be snarky about different candidates. If you look, you will see that I have refrained from saying anything bad about anyone on the VP shortlist, and will work my ass off to win-no matter who is the VP. That is and always was Kamala's decision. This is not a primary.

I think having PA in the bag would be good since it is a must-win state and we can turn our attention to other states we need. And I am not necessarily talking about you when I say that the snark has turned into unnecessary attacks on a good Democrat. Hopefully, a decision will be made soon and then we will support both of our nominees...regardless of who they are. This sort of thing is not conducive for party unity.

[DFab420]

175. I'm literally just pointing out weaknesses other politicial watchers are pointing out

I’m not attacking him I’m pointing out weakness in candidate choices. Just because a majority of people here can’t seem to participate in political discussions without bring emotional responses isn’t my fault.

I guess I just made the mistake of thinking people here had an interest in politics as an exercise not just knee jerk reactions to trigger words.

[pwb]

96. Using religion to divide

is a puke play. IMO.
Ones religion matters not in our big tent.

[honest.abe]

97. So the Trump/Vance position on Israel is better??

[OneGrassRoot]

102. Please share YOUR definition of Zionism here, all who are reading this. Thanks!

Because now that it's a hot-button issue and people of various generations are discussing it, I often think people have different definitions from the long-accepted definition of Israel having the right to be an independent state.

[DFab420]

228. It's not MY definition of Zionism that is concerning. It's the youth, the progressive wing and the upper midwest Muslim

and Arab population that now seem to think that Zionism = Colonialism.

Which is insane and incorrect but also unfortunately part of the current climate in this country.

[kentuck]

104. Bernie is Jewish.

And he did OK. I don't think he lost because he was Jewish?

[BlueTsunami2018]

110. Why should we cater to these fringe, extremist Hamas supporters?

Those people who trashed the capitol last week? Fuck them. They aren’t us and I don’t want them associated with us. We should condemn those people as fervently as we do the Nazis on the right. There’s very little difference as far as I can see.

I don’t think we should be held hostage to people who aren’t even Democrats to begin with.

[kentuck]

124. I think most are outside agitators.

Just my opinion.

[TheKentuckian]

250. It is pointless because they aren't voting for Democrats anyway

They are not obtainable votes.

They will be hollering Kill em All Kamala, Pogrom Pete, ExTIMination, Murder Mark, and Beshear the Butcher in T minus one second.

At each step made in a vain effort to placate the goalposts will be on the move until they just happen to fail to make it to the voting booth but will have plenty of time to fluff Hama...errr...protest.

[CanonRay]

116. I'm still hoping for Walz.

He can connect to rural voters everywhere.

[JohnSJ]

133. I guess no one has listened to VP Harris speech on the Middle East, but she made

it clear she has the same policies as President Biden, and is a Zionist, that is supports the right of Israel to exist, and defend itself. She also is for a ceasefire, release of all hostages, and a two-state solution.

Those same "genocide joe" protesters, will not vote for VP Harris either, and a good number of those protesters do not believe Israel should exist.

I will vote for her VP Harris regardless who she chooses for VP, and anyone who refuses to VP Harris, is the same as voting for trump. It is that simple.

[Happy Hoosier]

136. I prefer Kelly, but I despise excluding a Jew because he's a Jew. Dusgusting. NT

[pinkstarburst]

146. Sort of like how people are excluding Buttigieg all over DU because he's gay?

[TheFarseer]

142. Shapiro also supports school vouchers

So he’s a “no” for me. Kelly is one of the most conservative candidates so I’m not huge on him either. Give me Walz!

[Sugarcoated]

145. Those people aren't going to vote for Kamala no matter who she picks

They are voting for Jill Stein

[LAS14]

149. To those who objected to the OP on grounds of anti-semitism.

Why is it that when people talk about the risks and benefits of black or female or gay candidates, no one assumes (well, dunno, "hardly anyone?&quot that they're racist or misogynist or homephobic? But this OP is accused by many of being anti-semitic. I don't get it.

[democrattotheend]

152. Someone did recently accuse those opposed to Buttigieg of being homophobic

There was a thread with a flame a few days ago about that.

[DFab420]

196. THANK YOU! I feel like it's open season for personal attacks against me just for participating in

good faith political discussion.

[BrianTheEVGuy]

154. I'm torn on this one...

... Part of me wants to win big with any means necessary.

The Jewish and gay part of me wants to say "well, if someone being Jewish, or Zionist, or Black, or a woman, or gay means you won't support them, you deserve four more MAGA years and EVERYTHING Trump will do to you."

Of course, the problem with the latter position is that the rest of us are stuck with MAGA too.

[LeftInTX]

168. You are overblowing this issue

In a 2019 gallup poll, more voters supported a Jewish president over an evangelical president..LOL





The genocide Joe group is a super small fringe. Yes, they may hurt Michigan if it is a very close race. However, Kamala will increase turn out among AA and younger voters.

I'm not concerned about him being Jewish.

I am concerned that he isn't as experienced as some of the other candidates. (He does not have federal govt experience. He is also in his first term as governor)

[DFab420]

211. Oh very interesting points! I hadn't seen this poll.

Yea Kamala's draw in the AA community could fend off the Muslim vote slide in the upper midwest true.


Just feels like a risky bet.

We shall see!

[GaYellowDawg]

180. I think you're overblowing the youth sentiment.

Last edited Fri Aug 2, 2024, 06:27 PM - Edit history (1)

While there are definitely some radicalized protestors on some college campuses, they by no means define "the youths."

I've edited this. My first reaction was that the statement sounded anti-Semitic. I've had a little time to think about this and while I disagree with your point and I think it could have been worded much differently, I went too far with my response and I want to apologize for that.

[DFab420]

183. Calling a jew an anti semite is pretty peak online behavior

Nicely done. Also is a personal attack. Alerted

[GaYellowDawg]

190. Not my intention

Last edited Fri Aug 2, 2024, 06:32 PM - Edit history (1)

I meant to say your post sounded anti-Semitic, not you. But just as I criticized your wording, I have to be open to the same criticism about mine.

I'm sorry for hitting that hard. I should treat other posters on here better than that, especially when they're making a point I disagree with. Even more so when it's something as tragic and emotionally fraught as feelings about Israel and Palestine.

[DFab420]

226. I really appreciate you. Thank you for seeing me.

This was big of you and I know we spoke privately but I wanted to make sure to publicly commend you on your words.

[GaYellowDawg]

230. Thank you for accepting. I can do better.

It's too easy for me to forget that there are real people behind these posts. I wouldn't have treated you like that in person and there wasn't any excuse to do so here.

[PlanetBev]

188. I agree with you, and I'm Jewish

I like Shapiro, but given the current conditions in the Middle East, I think it’s might poke too many voters in the eye.

[DFab420]

193. Glad someone understands what I was saying.

[Hekate]

189. Amazingly enough, antisemitism is always a hot-button topic. Just when you think we've outgrown it...

…here it comes again, out from under rocks and bridges.

[Demsrule86]

192. I don't think so.

DVRacer (728 posts)
Fri Aug 2, 2024, 04:45 PM
2
Recommend
Philly Mayor announced Josh Shapiro as VP
Her social media team accidentally published a video that was not yet supposed to be posted. Oops



https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219277251

[DFab420]

194. Well if I was wrong than it's also an exciting and historic ticket I can't wait to support.

But let's see if this leak is authentic first!

[Demsrule86]

200. That is how I feel...whoever it is has my full support. I have no idea if it true...there seems to more

folks predicting it will be Shapiro online but who the hell knows?

[DFab420]

204. Yea this was more a post to discuss the political theory of the times but people seemed to blow it out of proportion.

[BlueTsunami2018]

199. It's really not. Most people couldn't care less.

The pro-Hamas people and their lemmings are certainly loud but they aren’t anywhere near an overwhelming majority in the party or in society in general.

Almost none of those clowns are even Democrats and we shouldn’t be associated with them in any way. The display they put on at the Capitol last week was an absolute disgrace and so has their behavior been throughout all of this.

Bowing down to them would be a sure sign of weakness.

[DFab420]

203. I don't think it would bowing down, and I'm not really talking about those assholes at the capital last week.

I'm thinking more about the large Muslim American populations throughout the upper midwest who have already said they weren't gonna vote for Biden due to his stance on Israel.

I was thinking about the right wing/MSM complex that feeds into it's own narratives oroborous style and how they are starved for drama and you know if Trump digs in on Shapiro they will run with it, which will amplify the worst in people's nature.

I would love for us to be in a place where Shapiro could be it, and would be thrilled if he was, I just was discussing the theory of the political times that we live in and was hoping for a cogent discussion on that pros and cons the candidate would bring.

[BlueTsunami2018]

245. Every single VP prospect supports Israel.

The only difference is that Josh is Jewish. That’s the bridge too far for those stumping against him. That’s the thing they don’t like. It sickens me. He’s an excellent governor enjoying a high approval rating even among Republicans. He’s a tremendous friend to Union labor. He had a stellar record as AG and he’s never lost an election. He’s highly qualified and a skilled orator. He checks all the boxes.

How is Тяцмр going to attack Shapiro on this issue? Is he suddenly going to turn on Israel? Become an advocate for Palestine and call for an end to the fighting? Not a chance.

If we have to cater to people who aren’t going to vote for him and let Trump win just because the guy is Jewish, how can we trust them to support anyone we pick?

I’ll be happy with whomever is picked but I don’t like this angle of attack on Shapiro.

[DFab420]

246. Trump literally, today, made a play for the Palestinian/Arab/Muslim vote due to Shapiro even being mentioned

Trump will use every racist, antisemitic trope, dogwhistle whatever he can find.

We're also already seeing article coming about Shaprio's IDF service, his comments about the campus protests. All these things, that if we lived in a perfect world, he wouldn't have to explain, but because we live in a backwards ass country where 1/3 of the country maintains racist views, they will use his Jewishness and his beliefs that Israel rightfully should be allowed to exist as a cudgel to attack Harris

Trump holds no allegience to previous opinions, the media will let him get away with saying whatever he wants.

I'm not happy with this line of attack either, and it's not one that I am waging myself. I am simply pointing out what is happening out there in the world.

[Sugarcoated]

201. Josh Shapiro ROCKS

I really hope she picks him!

[DFab420]

208. It would be an exciting and historic ticket if she did!

I was just doing some political theory crafting about the current times we live in.

[honest.abe]

202. You do realize this decision is entirely in the hands of Harris and her vetting team.

And they know a helluva of lot more than you do about what is or us not political suicide. You would be best advised to tone it down. You will have a hard time walking this back if Josh is selected which appears very likely.

[DFab420]

207. Yes I do, I was engaging in political discussion about the pros and cons of candidates. I don't have to walk anything

back since this was just theorizing.

I guess I misunderstand the general tenor that this board has taken over the years. Used to be you could engage in the actual craft of politics here and not just post memes and twitter posts.

like OBVIOUSLY they know more lol this was just a thought exercise to engage in online discussion for crying out loud.

[DFab420]

223. What a weird and creepy, ominous way to threaten me

All I’m doing is pointing out the same things that are being pointed out in the media structure right now. These are not views that I hold personally, they are simply part of the political discussion in an unfortunate reality of the current climate of this country.

I’m honestly super disappointed in all of the ridiculously over the top emotional comments here

[honest.abe]

225. Then stop posting this crap.

[RandySF]

205. This is just gross

[DFab420]

210. I don't agree, I think people are just replying in an emotional manner to a political discussion.

There are already attack articles out there about Shapiro, and I think the campaign won't pick him to avoid the toxic nature of the current US sentiments towards Israel and unfortunate antisemitism that has crept into the far left and the white working class.

These aren't points I SUPPORT obviously, but I was just trying to discuss them in a frank and open way, because I thought that's what people who are into politics do.

Now obviously I could be wrong, and if it is Shapiro it would be even more of an exciting and historic ticket, but with Pelosi pushing for Walz, and VP Harris getting hit on the border, I think Kelly also has a leg up.

Flame me all you want but I'm just trying to discuss what's going on out there.

[jujubeets]

216. This is very disappointing

Why can't anyone mention Jews without violent Zionist this or Talmudic that. Most Jews are nothing like that and practically no one knows what they are talking about anyway. It's just more disgusting identity politics, not sticking to the issues. We are better than this!

[DFab420]

218. I'm literally just pointing out what is being talked about in the political spheres.

Like these are things that are out there in the zeitgeist right now and I think it's healthy to participate in political theory-crafting.

[BannonsLiver]

236. It also presupposes that Gaza is the most important issue to a huge swath of voters.

[DFab420]

239. Not a large swath, just enough in key states to damage our chances of winning

[yardwork]

220. I think you should self-delete this post. It's awful.

[DFab420]

221. Why? These aren't views I hold these are views that are being discussed in the media writ large.

All I’m doing is pointing out a pro and cons and trying to engage in political discussion on a political discussion board

[yardwork]

232. Right. Yawn.

[DFab420]

233. Ok you can continue to be rude if you want. I've explained my position and how you've misinterpreted my post.

[Celerity]

234. Because you a going after him for HIS RELIGION, ffs

Your OP is being used to smear many DUers here like me who do not give a toss about his religion but are concerned over his stances and actions being a real source of schism within our Party and our voting base.

You OP allows bad faith posters here a chance to try and falsely smear our absolutely legitimate (and non Shapiro's religion-based) concerns (and thus us as people as well) as being antisemitic.

Many of us concerned about Shapiro's schism potential (again NOTHING to do with his being Jewish) are practicing Jews, or partially of Jewish descent (like myself), and/or support another Jewish VP option (Pritzker), yet your targeting Shapiro's religion helps put a false target on our backs. Multiple posters point to your OP when they are having a go at us.

You should pull this shit down.

You have done real damage here.

[DFab420]

235. I'm NOT going after his religion. I AM POINTING OUT OTHERS WILL. Did you even READ my post or just the title?

Honestly I LITERALLY spelled it out in the post.

You have the youth voting bloc who thinks Zionism = Colonialism

You have the Arab/Muslim voting bloc in the upper midwest who have already said they have issues with Biden/Harris's closeness to Israel

You have reporting that Josh Shapiro's comments against the college campus protests will be used as a hammer. ( Comments I totally support by the way, if you cared to know)

I'm not targeting SHIT, I'm simply pointing out the POLITICAL nature of the current climate of this country.

Quite frankly I am stunned at the lack of comprehension by a large portion of the members here who seem to only want to react in an emotional level rather then participate in political discussions on a political discussion website.

ON EDIT: I'm also Jewish and how dare you accuse me of putting a target on anyones back. If there are people here who would ATTACK you for being Jewish I doubt HIGHLY my post was the permission they needed to be terrible.

[Celerity]

237. do not try and gaslight me

you said

It's not going to be Shapiro. His Judaism and Zionism if political suicide right now

Its just too much of a hot button topic right now.

It is NOT his Judaism!

Pritzker is Jewish and he would not trigger a schism anywhere near what Shapiro may cause, and that schism potential is because of Shapiro's stances and policies, NOT his Judaism.

You should pull this OP down.

[DFab420]

238. Holy shit, me explaining myself is NOT gaslighting, you're just throwing out buzzwords.

I didn't mention Pritzker because he was never a serious consideration that I saw being discussed.

Also if you can't see that in this fucking country, a country that had a hard time voting for a CATHOLIC, and for a white woman, wouldn't also have a hard time voting for someone of the Jewish faith, considering the deep running river of antisemitism that exists in the country, than you should pull the rose colored glasses off and join us in the real world.

[Celerity]

241. No person of good faith is making Shapiro's religion the reason for not supporting him, it is his stances on policies

and issues, (including some that have nothing to do with Israel whatsoever) potentially causing an intra-party rift.

Fetterman is not Jewish and he would face the same thing (minus school vouchers, which Fetterman opposes).

If a person is against Shapiro simply because he is Jewish, then that person will very likely also have issues over Harris being married to a Jewish man, and also would be very unlikely to support Pritzker as VP as well.

That type of person can fuck off, and I also posit they are small in number and not likely to support many (perhaps any) Democrats in general.

[lapucelle]

247. EVERY DEMOCRATIC VP CONTENDER IS A ZIONIST,

as is President Biden and Vice President Harris.

Quite frankly, I'm stunned at anyone's failure to recognize that simple fact.

Exactly what "youth bloc" thinks that Zionism = Colonialism?

[DFab420]

248. Literally every Gen Z voter.

It's all over Tik Tok, Instagram, everywhere.

[lapucelle]

261. So the claim is that "literally every Gen Z voter" thinks "Zionism colonialism",

and the evidence for the categorical claim is that "it's all over Tik Tok"?

[TwilightZone]

263. "Literally every Gen Z voter"

You have a different interpretation of the word "literally" than the rest of us.

There is zero evidence that literally every Gen Z voter has the same stance on *anything*, much less this issue.

The assertion itself is laughable; your insistence that social media is proof makes it doubly so.

[DFab420]

264. You just need to go a see for yourself. Look at what happened on campuses

Look at how that Houthi pirate went viral for a hot minute.

I’m telling you man the kids are not alright. Tiktok is poison fed directly into their brains. It’s all “free Palestine” this and “Israel is an apartheid state” that

Its out there, and its real, whether you choose to believe it or not

[Blaukraut]

242. Thank you.

I was open to any of the possible choices, but OPs like this make me WISH for Shapiro. In terms of the I/P issue, I fall right in the middle, and I suspect most of the electorate does, too.

[valleyrogue]

229. I know she took herself out of the running,

but I really wish it would be Gretchen Whitmer if for no other reason that having two women on a presidential ticket is a giant "fuck you" to the status quo and patriarchy.

[DFab420]

231. Yea could've been exciting but I think we were already hearing, unfortunately, lots of worry the country wasn't ready

I think the majority of Democratic power players still have cold feet on a double female ticket from the insane misogyny the Trump era has awoken in men of voting age.

[RandySF]

252. At the risk of getting flagged

This is shameful.

[DFab420]

256. I really wish you would at least attempt to treat me like a person

And see that we're just trying to discuss what is a real political discussion in media circles etc.

I'm not advocating this position, or bad mouthing Shapiro, I'm simply bringing up what is already being talked about.

[onecaliberal]

265. And yet...

[epreic01]

253. No fighting please.

We all have our preferences and we can share our concerns openly while trusting that everyone here wants to win an election.
I have concerns about uniting the party behind Shapiro in the time we have between now to early voting to Election Day itself. I don’t think he’s a monster and time will prove that. But we just don’t have the luxury of time.

[DFab420]

258. I'm not the one fighting, I was simply framing what is being said in the media

I thought this was a website that participated in political discussion about the Democratic party because people here were interested in politics.

That seems to have fallen on deaf ears among some and they have called me antisemitic and even a support of Hamas just for pointing out stuff that isn't even my own point of view, just what is being said writ large.

[epreic01]

262. My apologies

That wasn’t meant to be directed to you. Just trying to keep everyone in good spirits. I like being on here and I trust that most people on this platform are open minded people that are interested in the advancement of progressive values.

[Eko]

255. Personally I'm for Mayor Pete but past that

[Upthevibe]

257. DFab420..........

I COMPLETELY understand the spirit in which your post was written and I agree. I'm a gay woman and I think (as brilliant as he is) Pete's iffy as well.

I'm leaning towards Kelly or Walz.

[DFab420]

259. Thank you, I really really appreciate you. It's been a crazy few hours of personal attacks

I know we're all just user names on a website but it hurt more than I anticipated.

[BannonsLiver]

266. Bookmarking

We shall see.