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[rDigital]

This message was self-deleted by its author (rDigital) on Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:21 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[MotherPetrie]

1. Calling the Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaahmbulance for you!

[Yupy]

39. He should talk about people like you and how to AVOID your NON-SENSE COMMENTS

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

112. +1 :) n/t

[roguevalley]

148. yeah. fuck that guy for giving five minutes to discuss an epidemic when

the football game was on.

[Great Caesars Ghost]

117. Or just call the family of Nancy Benoit

Armed or not, it wouldn't have made a difference.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

2. Classic example of jock culture

Arguably more damaging than the so called gun culture.

[11 Bravo]

56. I am very much a product of the "jock culture", and I'm also a proud progressive.

We return you now to your regularly scheduled stereotypical broad-brush attack.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

68. Me too.

It's sad that there are those on DU that find the two incompatible.

[Arcanetrance]

86. Same here played football ans graduated second in my high school class

[ProgressiveProfessor]

105. Sorry the sarcasm was lost on some

There are any number of people blaming the gun culture for all sorts of things. Then someone posted black vs white gun crime stats yesterday and the argument went racial. Just thought I would push back some

There are issues with the jock culture in both high school and college at places. Think Columbine. Professional athletes have been getting away with murder (literally) for some time. Its misogynist and exploitative.

I too was a student athlete, but thanks to very down to earth mother and well trained father, never took it to seriously. When I had to make a choice in college, I left athletics in favor of academics.

[roguevalley]

149. actually, he was addressing the murder death of two people by guns

given that there is exactly about ten minutes a year given over to discussing the violence of guns in America which is the leading cause of death in some demographics, I applaud his guts. Now go back to the game.

[radicalliberal]

218. I wonder if nonathletic boys who have no interest in sports are ever subjected ...

... to marginalization or broad-brush attacks. No, that couldn't be true.

[CreekDog]

3. oh, so he doesn't quote you, so you consider him stupid

[rDigital]

127. Yes. nt

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

175. I quoted him and I'll be he's not happy with me either:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021929633

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

176. VVVVVVVVVV

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021929633

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Oy...

911 what is our emergency?

We need a wwaaambulance.

[rocktivity]

16. Wrong number

You're supposed to call WHINE-one-one!


rocktivity

[rDigital]

100. Comments like these are far more effective with an accompanying illustration.

[IMG][/IMG]

[graham4anything]

5. You may be 100% correct about Costas, but, Sometimes, it takes a moron to move things Forward

Politics is life. Life is Politics
Football is life. Life is a football game (or is it baseball)

and football is our national pasttime

I think the repubs took Janet's wardobe malfunction and used that singular event to get rid of Dan Rather later on.

Plus ESPN hired Rush Limbaugh (though quickly fired him when he couldn't control his racism).

Plus Hank Jr. one of the most rightwing of rightwingers, sang the theme for decades and getting good face time on tv and keeping his name in view, and his views front and center

I have been to many concerts in my life

and mostly the crowd is with the singer, being that they paid good money to see them

but a few years ago, seeing Springsteen, all of a sudden a new kind of thing happened

Some(not many) yelled out- we paid our money to hear you sing, so sing and don't politic here
when he sang his "41 shots" song.


As Billy Joel sang "We didn't start the fire"
but it takes a spark to make a fire
and as Archduke Ferdinand found out sometimes sparks come in the most unobvious of places.

or as George Carlin posit'd "Football vs. Baseball"
In a war, anything goes. And football is war

(IMHO)

[WinkyDink]

6. There is always another topic to address in this godforsaken nation. But Costas said what he felt.

That he didn't please YOU is kind of neither here nor there.

[rDigital]

102. We all have our opinions. That's why we're here : ). nt

[kelliekat44]

7. If you don't love the gun, that makes you a moron??? nt

[PavePusher]

107. Yeah, that's exactly what he said....

sure....

[Spazito]

8. LOL!

Bob Costas doesn't reflect your view of the world of guns ergo he is a "moron". Wrong.

[joeybee12]

9. Unrec...he advocated for a very good cause...

Unrec to high heaven your stupid OP.

[BainsBane]

53. +1

[Lightbulb_on]

94. Would you be as excited if he had advocated for what others believe...

... to be a "very good cause" but you find abhorrent?

Perhaps an anti gay marriage speech in the prop 8 days?

or a pro-Romney speech a few months ago?

Some folks think that those are really important and valid. It doesn't mean that football is the place for it.

[jorno67]

10. Fail!

Costas spoke from the heart in front of everyone knowing damn well that he'd take some lumps from knee jerking, mouth breathing, shallow thinking, gun toting Umercans. Hell he put his job on the line to do so! That makes him a hero! I'm sure he is truly sorry he didn't mention you or your pet project during his limited allotted time.

[99Forever]

11. He's a moron because he doesn't share your fetish?

That's nice.

[bluestate10]

22. There are many purist on DU that can't see a larger picture. Domestic violence is

a problem that must be solved, but guns are often used in that violence. Gun control is part of many solutions. Costas was exactly right.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

24. Hear, hear!

Wish the OP was able to grasp the connection.

[JaneyVee]

12. He was doing a story on a sports related tragedy. Railing against war on drugs seems more political.

Or anything else you listed would seem more political than a story about a NFL tragedy.

[rDigital]

131. You're right, Mental illness and the NFL's cult of violence would have made better topics. nt

[BainsBane]

169. Because violence and guns are entirely unrelated.

[rDigital]

173. I see what you are saying.

Last edited Wed Dec 5, 2012, 04:22 AM - Edit history (1)

Note that Russia has literally zero civilian handguns and their murder rate is in excess of 3x our murder rate. People will use what is available, but it's not the objects, it's the people doing the killing. A whole lot of them.

[BainsBane]

178. But guns are far more efficient

At killing than other methods. They make it easier, which is both their purpose and their problem. Sure the football player might have used a knife, but it's far less likely, particularly for suicide. There is far greater access to murder because of guns.

I'm not advocating to take your guns away. The court has ruled on the issue. But I don't have to like how common guns are in American society.

[rDigital]

179. I can appreciate your perspective and I respect it. Here's more of mine.

Japan's suicide rate absolutely trounces our total murder & suicide rate combined at 23.8 per 100k(Our suicide rate is 12 and our murder rate is 5.22). South Korea is even higher at 31.2.

They have no legal civilian handguns and almost no other civilian legal guns of any kind.

I think the media makes the problem seem bigger than it is. I think readily accessible mental healthcare is a more productive solution than whack-a-mole with our rights.

[BainsBane]

180. I am all for access to mental health care

Sounds like a good start to me.

[rDigital]

181. A few of my high school friends might still be with us if they had received the proper care. : (

[Wait Wut]

13. I don't think that what he did was moronic.

I think it was courageous. Saying that he could have addressed some of the other issues you mentioned misses the point. A football player did not die from poverty, inequality or the war on drugs. Possibly mental illness.

I may or may not agree with what he did, but I wouldn't call it moronic. Probably career suicide, though.

[rDigital]

128. May he go the way of Hank Williams Jr. nt

[srican69]

14. Oh my - Gun toting tough guy is complaining about hurt feelings...

If need a licence ( that needs periodic renewal) for a car - then I should damn well have the same requirements for operating a firearm. There are too many idiots with guns in this country and that is a FACT.

[PavePusher]

108. You don't need a licence to buy a car, or to operate it on private property.

Just when you take it out on public roads.

I also don't see much about vehicles in the Constitution....

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

116. Other things not in the Constitution:

The Air Force
Congressional Districts
The Electoral College
Executive Order
Executive Privilege
Freedom of Expression
(Absolute) Freedom of Speech and Press
"From each according to his ability..."
God
Immigration
Impeachment means removal from office
Innocent until proven guilty
It's a free country
Judicial Review
Jury of Peers
"Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness"
Marriage
Martial Law
No taxation without representation
Number of Justices in the Supreme Court
http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html

[rDigital]

129. You're so pleasant. I wish that DU had more posters of your caliber. nt

[Tommy_Carcetti]

15. It was hardly a "cheap shot."

It was a message that needed to be communicated.

The fact you didn't want to hear it? Well that's your own damn fault.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

17. Attention...um....world. Got a message?

Make sure it is thoroughly vetted by Democratic Underground user rDigital to ensure it conforms with his/her belief and value system.

That is all.

[rDigital]

97. We all have opinions. :) I'm no authority, it's all good. nt

[FSogol]

18. Unrec. With everything going on in the world, you get upset over a sports yakker

insulting guns?

[rDigital]

132. Unrec. Your not caring doesn't make my point irrelevant. Also, note the recs. nt

[mfcorey1]

19. I respectfully disagree. nt

[rtassi]

20. more then appropriate

for Bob to use half time to editorialize ... it was after all related to persons involved in the very sport being broad casted .. to say nothing of the suicide taking place on the property and in front of his organization. It will never be determined to anyones satisfaction if the killings would have taken place had a gun not been present or readily accessible ... but that it was, is evidence enough of the inherent dangers of emotionally unstable persons having access to guns ... professional athletes or not ...
I applaud Bob for the courage it took, knowing that the reactionary and fearful would blow a gasket and view football as exempt from societal commentary ...

[Comrade_McKenzie]

21. I'd be pissed too if a sportscaster had more common sense than I did. nt

[BainsBane]

54. LOL

Seriously though, I think some sportscasters are brighter than their counterparts in the news division.

[rDigital]

139. Why would anyone be mad about that? nt

[Hoyt]

23. Costas is just over-the-head of gun culture. Kind of like those who saw climate change, bigotry,

the earth is not flat, etc., before others.

I applaud him for making something of his "position" other than just sports.

[regjoe]

25. Yes, he is a moron for preaching his fears and politics during a sporting event

on national television.

If he felt he had to open his trap, he should have blabbed about what this event was truly about: violence against women.

It's funny: costas whines about a Constitutional right and whines about government not taking it away, but posters say you are the one who needs the waaaaaaaaambulance. LOL!

[joeybee12]

32. Unrec for stupid NRA talking points...nt

[regjoe]

40. Ah, the notorious "UNREC"

Used often by those unable to dispute facts.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

47. Facts?

You mean the epidemic problem with gun violence in this country?

Those kind of facts?

[Archae]

52. As Michael Moore pointed out...

Canadians have nearly as many guns as those in the US do.

So why does Canada have so many fewer deaths?

I'm sick and tired of this "If we have gun control, everything will be all hunky-dory!"

Criminals who BY LAW aren't supposed to have guns, are arrested with them.

Guns do not cause violence.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

55. Canada also has much stricter gun control laws than the U.S.

So that would make perfect logical sense.

But nice try.

[Archae]

59. If Canada does, why are there as many as there are in the US?

And what exactly are those laws?
And which of those laws have counterparts in the US, like felons being forbidden from having guns?

[Tommy_Carcetti]

61. Just a brief sample:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Canada

Individuals who wish to possess or acquire firearms in Canada must have a valid possession-acquisition, or possession-only, licence (PAL/POL); either of these licences allows the licensee to purchase ammunition. The PAL is distributed exclusively by the RCMP and is generally obtained in the following three steps:
1.Safety training: To be eligible to receive a PAL, all applicants must successfully complete the Canadian Firearms Safety Course[15] (CFSC) for a non-restricted licence, and the Canadian Restricted Firearms Safety Course[16] (CRFSC) for a restricted licence; the non-restricted class is a prerequisite to the restricted licence. The RCMP publishes information on the locations and availability of these courses.[17]
2.Applying for a licence: Currently only one type of licence is available to new applicants, the possession-acquisition licence (PAL). People can request a PAL by filling out Form CAFC 921.[18]
3.Security screening: Background checks and investigations are performed. All applicants are screened, and a mandatory 28-day waiting period is imposed on first-time applicants, but response time may be longer.[19]

Licences are typically valid for five years and must be renewed prior to expiry to maintain all classes. Once licensed, an individual can apply for a firearm transfer;[20] and an authorization to transport[21] (ATT) for restricted firearms.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

The NRA would crap its pants if we ever suggested doing something similar over here.

[Archae]

66. The NRA no longer has the power it once did.

This was shown quite emphatically in how much the NRA spent on this election, and how badly they did.

Those laws look like they make sense, and should be put into place here in the US.

And fuck the NRA and their hysterics.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

69. Good, then we agree on something.

So if not the NRA, what's stopping states from enacting measures similar to those in Canada?

[Archae]

72. What's stopping them?

Hysterics from gun nut groups like the NRA.

And believe it or not, the NRA is not the worst.

Just look up "Gun Owners of America" and their leader, Larry Pratt.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

73. I'm not getting you.

On the one hand, the NRA doesn't have the power that it used to.

But on the other hand, common sense gun control measures are being blocked because of opposotion of the NRA and other gun advocacy groups.

Can you elaborate? I'm not being sarcastic; I'm just curious as to your angle here.

[Archae]

74. Mostly they are blocked due to bought-and-paid-for politicians.

There's also a great deal of hysterical propaganda being spread by the gun nut groups, just look how a UN bill to stop the trafficking across borders of guns has in the eyes of Wayne LaPierre, morph into a "UN plot to grab our guns."

[PavePusher]

109. So they do have power. Got it. n/t

[frylock]

64. probably wouldn't hurt to do some basic research before arguing against something

[Spazito]

60. We have sensible gun control...

NO conceal/carry; severe restriction on handguns; etc, etc, etc. You actually make a good point FOR sensible gun control by pointing out the vast differences in the number of deaths per capita between Canada and the United States even though your intent was the opposite.

[graham4anything]

79. Because Canada didn't come from the wild wild west idolize the gun culture

the stereotyped Cowboys beating the indians with their gun vs. the bow and arrow

I don't remember Dudley Doright having a gun though

People in Canada had Canadian Mounties, but not the image of the gunslinger

as Johnny Cash sang"I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die&quot c)

Guns kill directly.

and its legal guns that make illegal guns impossible to get rid of

most of the major events were from legal guns, betcha this one was too

The tea party showed what it showed.
Can anyone imagine if the Rev. Farrakhan's million man march had 1 million people stroking their guns like the tea party did outside town halls (and then Gabbie Giffords was almost killed and a judge was)

It is the glorification in America of the gun

the entire issue needs to be reframed

[BainsBane]

172. Men cause violence

Are you suggesting we get rid of them?

[frylock]

63. what you posted was opinion..

there was nothing factual in anything you posted.

[regjoe]

88. Nothing?

Fact: Costas preached his fears and politics during a sporting event on national television.
Fact: Control over a woman was the cause of this tragic event and violence against a woman was the result.
Fact: The 2nd Amendment is a Constitutional right.
Fact: Pro 2nd Amendment supporters fear losing their right. Anti rights people fear inanimate objects.

Debatable opinion: Costas is a moron.

[frylock]

147. opinion; opinion; fact; opinion

i give you another week here, tops.

[BainsBane]

177. So why are you so fucking afraid

Of hearing anything that states the obvious: guns kill. No one is taking away your guns. You people are messianic. It's not enough that you have personal arsenals and that thousands of people die every year so you can play with your guns. But you feel you shouldn't have to be subject to hearing the views of others. You won. The court places your right to bear arms above my right to safety. We don't like it but there is nothing we can do about it. So you hear some bitching once in a while. Deal with it. WTF are you complaining about anyway? What more do you want? Mind control?

[regjoe]

200. Hmmmm?

Not sure where you get that I am afraid, but I am not.

Anti rights people can preach all they want, but they should use facts, not their personal opinions. Halftime of a football game is not the time or place to preach your fears.
Yes, the court has maintained that our 2nd Amendment right, which has been around since our founding btw, is above your fear.

I deal with your fear on a daily basis and, to be quite honest, I find it amusing. But that in no way means that I aim to prevent you from your whining. I know the 2nd Amendment isn't going anywhere.

What am I complaining about? Costas preaching anti 2nd Amendment rhetoric on national television during football and trying to pass it off as fact. If he want to preach his political opinions he should do it on political shows.

[BainsBane]

217. Why is it anti rights

To make the obvious statement that guns kill people? There is never the right place as far as you folks are concerned. Why not be honest? You don't believe anyone should be able to say anything about your sacred guns ever.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

188. "Inanimate" objects that have the capability of becoming quite animate.

As in having the capability to shoot a sharp projectile at the speed of sound which has the ability to cut through human flesh. That's pretty damn animate to me.

And that's not just an unintended consequence of the purpose of this so-called "inanimate object." That's its intended purpose.

We aren't talking about a stepping stool, or a toaster over, or a--I'll say it--car. (Because I know how much all you gun enthusiasts love to draw comparisons between car deaths and gun deaths as if they were any way remotely similar.) We're talking about an instrument which is designed exclusively for killing, injuring, or the simulation of killing/injuring.

You talk about fear of guns, and maybe that's you gun enthusiasts' problem. You don't think we should be afraid of them. Not even a healthy, logical, rational fear. Anything that has the ability to take a human life should be viewed with a bit of caution. And anything that was designed with the specific purpose of having the ability to take a human life should be viewed as extreme, as out of the ordinary, as something not to be trifled with except in only the most exceptional of circumstances. Collecting guns as if they were baseball cards, carrying them around as if they were your wallet in your pocket, chalking it off as simply your "right" without regard to potential consequences or problems down the road--it is an unhealthy obsession, a delusion.

So forgive me if I have just a little fear of your precious "inanimate object."

[MountainMama]

202. Bravo!!

+infinity

[regjoe]

204. "Gun enthusiast?" LOL!

Yes, it is an inanimate object. It cannot cause harm on its own, but it can be used to cause harm.
I'm not the type of person to trivialize your fears and desires with comparisons or what if scenarios. Guns are designed to be used to kill and are used to kill. But, as Americans, we have ALWAYS had the Constitutional right to have them. So the question is, do we strip that right from all in order to please the few? I say no. Especially seeing how the places with the strictest gun laws are also the ones with the most murders.

Seems to me that the people who are so paranoid about what MIGHT happen, but more than likely won't happen, are the ones with an "unhealthy obsession or delusion." Living in constant fear that SOMEBODY, SOMEWHERE, may be "collecting" guns or, heaven forbid, "carrying" one around.

Look, the fact is that the 2nd Amendment really is simply our right and its not going anywhere. With rights come consequences. Yes, there are some holes we can fill, but it's one of our most regulated and controlled "rights."
If it really does scare you that much, then by all means work to get rid of it. It will be a wasted effort, but at least it might make you fell better.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

212. The problem is, folks like you cry bloody murder on the "regulated and controlled" aspect.

You say it's a regulated and controlled right, but if anyone attempts to regulate or control guns, you'll go on and on about infringement and gun grabbers and so on and so forth. The fact of the matter is very few here or anywhere are advocating for a total 100% ban on all firearms. But many of us want restrictions, whether that be in the types of weapons a private citizen can own, the steps one must go through to obtain one, the steps one must go through to keep one, for some perhaps the amount of guns a private citizen can own, where that gun can and cannot be carried. There's not necessarily a consensus, except amongst the most fervent gun enthusiasts, and that is that it is all bad, and we're all a bunch of pansy "nanny staters" yada yada yada.

And you talk about fear, but it seems to me the ones living their lives in fear the most are the gun enthusiasts. Everyone's a potential robber, every person is a potential mass murderer, and you and only you can be John Wayne and save the day with your trust old sidearm forever at your side. It's thinking like that where you see a 17 year old unarmed kid dead for no reason other than he was wearing a hoodie in an unfamiliar neighborhood. That's fearful thinking for you.

On the other hand, I choose not to have a gun in my house. I know I live in a safe neighborhood with very little history of violent crime and the likelihood of a violent home invasion in my home is slim to none and does not justify me bringing in an instrument specifically designed to cause death or injury into my house, which I share with my wife and two young children. And I know in that very slim chance of such an event, I do have a 34 inch solid aluminum Easton baseball bat under my bed that I'm quite comfortable in using. And it's cheap, doesn't require a license, and probably wouldn't attact the curiousity of any children using it for any reason other than a pickup game of stickball

And yes, I will call folks like you "gun enthusiasts." It's what one calls a euphemism. My preferred phraseology involves the combination of the word "gun" and a certain crunchy organic snack food found in bowls at bars and such, but I'd rather keep it civil here.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

41. Unrec for using the term 'talking points"

[BainsBane]

58. he didn't mention the constitution or gun control

He made the simple observation that as long as guns are ubiquitous, lots of people will die. Guns kill. That is what they are created to do, and they perform the task quite efficiently.

[BainsBane]

171. He didn't talk about any of that

Paranoid much?

[BeyondGeography]

26. He's a smart guy

He might even be smarter than you.

[Archae]

67. So why did Costas do so badly during the London Olympics?

I just wanted him to shut up.

[HappyMe]

27. Unrec.

Because I'm sick of the gungeon crawling into GD.

[phleshdef]

28. Good thing you don't GET to decide what issue he cares about and when he talks about it.

As for the accusation that he is a moron, I'm inclined to used the word "projection" and leave it at that.

[rDigital]

125. Samesies! nt

[rDigital]

143. No, just that I feel the same way as you do. Happy Tuesday. : ) nt

[MindMover]

30. Grow up ... he gave his personal opinion and I happen to agree with him ....

[rDigital]

130. I'm giving my personal opinion and I disagree with him.

[quinnox]

31. says the former gungeon member

So, missing the gungeon a little? You won't find as pleasant an atmosphere here for the gun types.

[dionysus]

33. he went after the precious, yes he did....

[fredamae]

34. Regardless;

He Spoke The Truth! Like it or not.

[Viking12]

35. Don't you have a War on Christams to wage...

or some other made up outrage?

[Ian David]

36. Dennis Miller would never have done that, right, Cha-Chi?

[rDigital]

134. Dennis Miller is another moron, but not the subject of this OP. nt

[Paladin]

37. Quit Whining. You've Still Got FoxNews On Your Side. (nt)

[VOX]

38. But you're okay with the late Charlton Heston's public posturing for guns, guns, guns?

Costas' choice to say what/when he did was appropriate to the immediate tragedy and the corrosive gun culture that cheapens life in this country.

The only people who would flip out at Costsa' common-sense remarks would be an NRA nut.

[rDigital]

135. You present a poor argument and a false dichotomy to boot. nt.

[Dirty Socialist]

42. Post And Run

He's gone now.

[rDigital]

137. Back now, did you want something? nt

[Capt. Obvious]

43. I want to hear more about the suicide states for former NFL players

It must be huge

[rDigital]

138. I guess it's not a big deal for you, but the suicide rate for men

who have played in the NFL is 6x the national average.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/04/opinion/bruni-pro-footballs-violent-toll.html?_r=0

[sarisataka]

44. I don't know if I would say moron

and I am sure he spoke his opinion with the full knowledge and approval of the network. I believe he had a greater failing in reading someone else's words rather than his own. That I would have respected more.

And I agree there is a massive disconnect in the NFL. They push players to deliver the most exciting (violent) product they can deliver while claiming to be concerned for their health. I believe that concern ends when the player's career ends. They disavow any long term problems or when the violence spills from the field into a player's personal life.

The players are further enabled by the NFL, their teams and the legal system for the slap-on-the-wrist treatment we see a dozen or more times each year when they get in trouble with drink, drugs or 'altercations'.

I would have had far more respect for Costas if he advocated against domestic violence or the culture of violence in America.

Agree completely, even to add that guns are not solutions to everyday problems and must be handled with the utmost care would have been ok. To say that neither would be dead if not for a gun and the implication that the gun made him do it is merely excusing the violent action and avoiding the tough question of 'why'

[DefenseLawyer]

45. First rule of Gun Club

Don't talk about Gun Club. Thanks for the reminder, Gun Guy, I almost forgot.

[Lex]

48. Great, get yourself a show and then you can decide what topics YOU'D like to discuss.

[malaise]

49. Whatever - but he was 100% correct to speak out about guns and violence n/t

[The Magistrate]

50. Just For The Record, Ladies and Gentlemen, Check Out the Tons O' Fun Transparency Page

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=269047&sub=trans

[BainsBane]

51. Crushing poverty didn't kill the NFL player and his girlfriend

a gun did. Costas' point was entirely appropriate. What is astounding is how rare such observations have become in this country. The rest of the world, rightfully, believes the US is insane in its profligate distribution of weapons. Naturally thousands of people die over meaningless arguments--like loud music--when people have guns. It's an obviously point. What is moronic is that you pretend otherwise.

Americans have little choice in these matters. SCOTUS has ruled the Second Amendment means your right to arms is more important than my right to safety. But that doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

57. I thought this was sarcasm when I saw the title.

Looks like no one agrees with you.

[Politicub]

62. Looks like he got to you

Good. Means his message is cutting through the clutter.

[otohara]

65. Football Rules - 32,000 Dead American's MEH!

expendable people, expendable jobs, expendable children, nobody gives a shit so shut your mouth, USA USA USA!

[hifiguy]

70. Wow.

That is just sad. And so are you.

[Little Star]

71. Last night Lawrence O'Donnell said something along the line of...

How many home runs could Babe Ruth have hit without a bat?

[Electric Monk]

75. I love how gungeoneers FAIL here when they get brave enough to wander out of the gungeon.

You're not the first, and I'm sure you won't be the last.

Welcome to the rest of DU

[mike_c]

76. do not reinstate....

For obvious reasons.

[watercolors]

77. I APPLAUD HIM FOR HIS STATEMENT!!

[Chorophyll]

78. "His own political ends?" Is he running for office or something?

I guess you don't agree with him, but he's not a moron.

[4_TN_TITANS]

80. As an obvious football fan

the irony of him talking about gun violence while taking a break from football violence was completely lost on me. Costas is not a moron, but point well taken.

[GoneOffShore]

81. UnRec for you and your comment.

[Kalidurga]

85. Awesome thread....

After the last couple of days watching people sniping on each other it's good to see an OP bring DU back together again.

[rDigital]

103. Thanks, somebody had to do it. : ). nt

[Skittles]

87. LOLOL

you poor, POOR baby

[Demonaut]

89. whatever...............nt

[DevonRex]

90. So the culture around a game is more violent

than the culture around machines designed specifically to kill.

Got it.

[SomethingFishy]

91. Wow.. it sounds like the horror of his opinion

has scarred your fragile little mind.

He should commit hari-kari right now!

[rDigital]

174. How about we all just order sushi and call it a night ? : ) nt

[spanone]

92. bullshit. it was a football player who committed the murder/suicide....i wasn't insulted one bit.

[rDigital]

153. Not really. He went whole hog on handguns while simultaneously ignoring

the darkside of The NFL. It's a Pot-meet-Kettle kinda thing.

[Great Caesars Ghost]

93. Here is a name he overlooked. Chris Benoit.

[rDigital]

95. The Pro Athlete who killed his whole family with his bare hands. : (

[Great Caesars Ghost]

110. exactly, it would be no different if Joven didn't have a gun.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

96. If your definition

of moron is "intelligent, articulate, interesting, compassionate, and well-informed" then yeah--what a fucking moron.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

104. Obviously, Bob Costas isn't on the same level of such world renowned intellectuals

like Ted Nugent, John Lott, Mary Rosh, Masaad Ayoob, Larry Pratt, Glenn Beck ect...

He's only a respected journalist and the face of an entire network's sports division (what a loser!). Apparently, anyone who wants to be taken seriously in the gun nut community needs to deal in blatant falsehoods, false-equivalencies, and right-wing conspiracy theories.

[Hoyt]

114. +1.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

115. Exactly! And it also helps if they're psychotic jerks.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

119. There is no such thing as a respected journalist...they are entertainers, just like the team members

The NFL hates controversy and this is controversy...

Costas has already backpedaled somewhat: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021927990

If he was truly concerned about domestic violence in sports, he could have started with his ex broadcast partner

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

121. An OJ reference?

I've noticed citing an 18 year old incident is the go-to argument for gun nuts who don't want to discuss the issue at hand.

Best part of all this is seeing idiot gun worshipers become further unhinged over the fact that they can't get NBC to discipline or fire one of the most respected men in his profession. Another welcome example of how the worst segments of society are losing control and influence.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

123. I had not seen a OJ reference previously, but am not paying the story much mind

I hate how badly LAPD screwed up the case. They took what should have been a binary case and mucked it up so badly that it will never be settled.

One of the joys of being a large black male is that you have to live with the public perception of large black men. Bad deeds by black athletes have direct personal consequences for me.

I have zero respect for "journalists" Its a non profession, never has been. They are entertainers, often with agendas of all stripes.

I have little tolerance for professional entertainers, including athletes. I accord them no deference or respect I don't give the person next door. Drives some in their entourages nuts. Been a couple incidents over the years.

The key organization will be the NFL who hates controversy. If this dies away, I doubt anything will happen. The game yesterday was one of the first I have seen in quite some time, the show has come a long way

[TheKentuckian]

99. You aren't likely to find anyone more favorable to the right to keep and bear arms than me

and I don't mean on DU, I'm fairly comfortable saying I might leave the NRA behind on that one but that doesn't mean I think Costas is even in moronic's vicinity. Smart people of good faith can disagree though I agree that the triage of problems is off base.

Costas went on a limb for this but is silent on much more pervasive and pressing issues and I am left wondering why this is so important when it is statistically small bore.

Moron? Not at all.

[fishwax]

101. I think what he did was fine. I think the complaining about (gasp!) social discussion in a football

broadcast is kind of silly. It isn't as though he was creating the issue out of thin air. It was the topic of the day in the NFL on Sunday.

On edit: And I would think that even if his commentary had gone the other direction, pointing out that the day before Belcher tragedy there was another murder suicide, in which a man--in this case, without a handgun--committed two murders and then killed himself on a community college campus in Wyoming.

[alarimer]

106. Why does he have less of a right to speak than, say, Limbaugh?

He was quoting someone else, anyway, and I largely agreed with what he said.

How many fucking deaths is it going to take? How many people have to die before we wise up?

This is a two-fold problem: domestic violence and guns. Too much of both.

The fact is that women who are murdered are murdered by their partners.The constant availability of guns does not help the situation.

[rDigital]

113. He's allowed to have an opinion. Now he's paying for it. nt

[sarcasmo]

111. Gun nuts need guns.

[Downtown Hound]

118. I must have missed the part where Costas was required to check with you

about what he should talk about.

Oh and, fuck your respect. I don't need it and sure doubt Costas does either.

[rDigital]

126. You definitely missed it. nt

[Berserker]

120. Fuck Costas

And welcome to the real DU where people think and not act like assholes in lockstep.
Thanks again rDigital for posting this. Most of the posts sound like 3rd graders and about the same mentality. Sorry if I offended any third graders in here posting.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

122. As opposed to the stunning intellect you've just demonstrated here.

Bravo. Bravo indeed.

[-..__...]

124. To Bob the Blowhard...

my deepest wish that this destroys your career in TV, sports, journalism forever.

Granted... it probably wont (we can only hope), but just the same, you still need a fastball to the face.

[frylock]

155. well you can wish in one hand and shit in the other..

costas isn't going anywhere just because a few meatheads are butthurt over an editorial.

[Electric Monk]

184. You got lucky. A jury voted 3-3.

just the same, you still need a fastball to the face.

TOS violation for advocating violence. I hope admins take note. You're long overdue for a pizza.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

189. Yes. Let's Dixie Chick Bob Costas for speaking his mind on an important topic.

And wish him physical harm to boot.

You disgust me.

[dionysus]

207. uh oh.. costas doesnt like the precioussssssss, no he doesn't...

[bongbong]

133. Guns!

The Delicate Flowers (gun-nuts) need their guns. They're too scared to walk out the door without one.

[rDigital]

140. It's been a while, BB. Good to hear from you. nt

[rDigital]

144. He's a public figure. There's no need to get personal. nt

[AnotherMcIntosh]

141. This is news?

[rDigital]

145. It's always something. nt

[SHRED]

150. The NFL doesn't give a shit

Neither do the Chiefs.


Because they still played the game.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

157. They do only to the point it impacts the brand and the gate

Then and only then will they give a damn

[crazyjoe]

151. don't forget rape.

[patrice]

152. Football players CHOOSE their violence. Guns are such that your personal choices can have little

to do with whether your suffer from the use of guns.

[rDigital]

163. I can definitely understand this sentiment. Solid post. nt

[WillyT]

154. Project Much ??

[rDigital]

160. No, not really. nt

[Warren Stupidity]

164. You defended your position in that thread.

And you restated it another thread.

1. http://www.democraticunderground.com/117284156#top

2. http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1240&pid=162303

And you did not answer the question.

[Arugula Latte]

161. Nope. He's right.

Truth hurts.

[rDigital]

162. Thank you for participating in the conversation. : ) nt

[MightyMopar]

166. The tipping point on guns might finally be at hand

[rDigital]

167. In which direction? In the last 30 years concealed carry went from an obscurity in a couple states

to being the rule of law in 49 states.

[tularetom]

168. I disagree with almost everything Costas said

But he had every right in the world to say it. If you have a problem with sportscasters pontificating about non sports related topics your mute button can be your best friend.

You need to do a better job of choosing your battles. Don't try to defend the 2nd amendment by attacking the 1st.

[rDigital]

170. I'm not saying that it should be illegal for him to say anything, just that it was ill advised and

that it wasn't the right place. Sports are an escape from politics and all of the other stuff in life. Don't bring politics into sports, is my main idea.

[Iggy]

185. Yes... BY All Means, Let's Not Let Reality

like a football player becoming unhinged, killing his girlfriend, then himself (right in front of his coach).. let's not interject THAT-- into the football game and interfere with our need to distance ourselves from reality.

Moving on....

[freshwest]

182. He should have mentioned all of that. But now to the industry he makes his living yakking about,

I'm sure he has been well schooled on not doing that on the air. If he had, it would have been his last network gig. It's like the veil of illusion between an actor and the audience. He's part of the magic show, and must not destroy the illusion.

The underbelly of sports scandals, the way tthe industry of the privately owned sporing franchises use public money for bringing along athletes to get into the professionals; the milking of property tax levees for decades and sales taxes for a private venue for private profit that the majority of people cannot afford, yet pay taxes on; the drugs and injuries and the reason players unionized and demand high salaries, as they are unable to do their work as long as other workers, and few survive in any condition to enjoy retirement.

It's out of balance, but that misery is supposed to be taken care of the unions and communities, but the game remains the same.

As far as crime, mental illness and poverty/inequality and the war of drugs, those are factors in violence of all kinds. Not just the 'sexy' crime with the gun or knife or fist; but the crime of lack of sane social policy and human rights. That is beyond Costa's pay grade and can't be brought up to people a half-time. Since they are there to have an 'experience,' not learn anything but some stats of how the teams that the public doesn't profit from watching, but diverts their minds from all those dreadful life lessons.

I don't think he's a moron. He's simply a symptom of the insanity of America, that millions or billions are being spent for this diversion, when the country's infrastructure is crumbling, schools are being lost, the environment destroyed and everyone's cheering and yelling for a ball they also don't own tossed by people they don't know, in a stadium they pay for and it goes on and one. There's a bit of the Roman sports arena in all of this, and it's all overhyped.

He didn't. by the criteria you are using here, dishonor the sporting industry, for the reasons you and I have just given here. He did bring up what has been on people's minds because of daily events and the media inducing fear.

This is not the beginning of confiscating the guns. That would be the only reason I'd see worth getting upset over.

[rDigital]

183. Agreed. Another breath of fresh air from the freshness factory. Always a pleasure, FW. : ) nt

[Judi Lynn]

186. So glad to have seen your post. Thank you. n/t

[Tommy_Carcetti]

193. What media inducing fear? nt

[freshwest]

194. Oh, here's one of them:

All of the we're-all-gonna-die! sort whose policy is to keep their viewers in a constant state of vigilance in order to make them less able to reflect and more open to right wing brainwashing.

You know, those guys. And most of the networks are just Faux-lite.

[MrMickeysMom]

187. Can't disagree with those 4 things...

The 4 things listed, I agree.

However, the fact that guns kill more people in one year than Americans that were killed in Viet Nam and that the NRA has bought our legislators is the true crime.

[LanternWaste]

190. A most standard response

"... is a moron."

A most standard response when faced with ideas which may impugn our sacred cows. Zesty.

[DainBramaged]

191. The gun lobby has been hijacking America for its own political ends for too long.

Sorry your culture is showing.

[Raffi Ella]

192. cheap shot? ha, right.

Remember something for me will ya', rDigital?

The electorate has changed; After Obama there will be Hillary; the Gun control discussion? it's gonna happen.

[Pacafishmate]

197. Discuss all you like, the issue has already been decided.

[apocalypsehow]

195. Do you still believe that gun control supporters are holocaust enablers?

Jury: poster has specifically stated this and has had a post hidden claiming just that. See here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=269047&sub=trans

This is not a "call out" or some kind of personal attack: it is a legitimate question based on the poster's own past replies.

[Rex]

199. .

[Kolesar]

205. "holocaust enablers"

fIll iN tHe bLank really is fucked in the head. His thread was total flame bait. I see that he has lots of deleted posts.

[apocalypsehow]

216. Yep - and that isn't even the HALF of it. n/t.

[apocalypsehow]

196. ...

[apocalypsehow]

198. ...

[liberal N proud]

201. Last I checked, this country still has freedom of speech

He had the microphone and took the opportunity to provide "HIS" opinion.

You may disagree with him and that is OK too, but because he used the tools he had to say what he wanted doesn't make him a moron.

It was a pertinent topic given the shadow the events of the previous day over the whole game.

Sports is what Costas does and his world was stunned, so he spoke out.

Can't blame him for that! All you can do is disagree with what he said.

[rDigital]

203. Agreed, and I am simply doing the same as he. He's a public figure, harsh criticism is expected. nt

[Kolesar]

206. You're not a public figure. You're a gungeoneer with a significant number of hidden posts

Having a good old time agitating on a Democratic message board

[rDigital]

208. Thread disruption is not appreciated. If you have a problem.

Take it to meta.

[Kolesar]

209. Go outside and play basketball or something

You need to clear your head.
How about a tourney that lasts a year or two?

[rDigital]

210. Sure.

[apocalypsehow]

215. +1,000. n/t.

[liberal N proud]

211. What you are doing is hanging a tag on him because you don't like what he said

Calling someone a moron might as well call them something else no difference.

Your OP would have been far better received had you simply said you disagreed with what he said and made your case. You chose to go the name calling route which goes nowhere.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

213. Exactly.

I don't like most of what George Will has to say (except perhaps about baseball.) But I know he's no moron.

[rDigital]

214. I can appreciate your perspective. nt

[ellisonz]

219. It's been 12 days and I still think this post is moronic. n/t