Serious question

[malaise]

What explains the contempt so many men have for women? Who taught them this crap?
Perhaps we should start with religious institutions. Our socialization is seriously effed up.

[SocialDemocrat61]

1. It's cultural in many ways

Some learn it from their fathers or their friends or their school or church. Or just society in general.

[no_hypocrisy]

2. In my case, families.

My mother had six years of college (Bachelors and Masters) in 1952. She matched my father who went to medical school, perhaps had an edge on him in critical thinking skills.

Yet my father often discounted and minimalized my mother when she tried to exert equality in the marriage and raising the kids. Denigrated her sometimes. Same thing with me. My father refused to recognize my intelligence and skills.

Fortunately, this did not influence my brother, who has become a wonderful husband and member of our family.

[malaise]

7. Same with us

Mum actually taught dad to drive - she was well qualified and spoke three languages. She played down her own brilliance and strengths to please him. Of course her Catholicism was a major part of the problem.
Still she refused to stay home - she worked.

That said, she told me years after he died that she wished she had my guts and accepted my atheism to maintain our relationship.

[Kev80]

110. Mum

I thought I was the only one who called their mum “mum”. She’s from Ireland and I call her everyday. “Mum, what are you up to?” I used to get made fun of as a kid calling her mum. My friends would say it’s “mom”. No it’s mum.

[malaise]

111. You answered it

Your Mum is not American. We both have links to British colonialism😀😀

[Rebl2]

44. My father

was totally opposite. He always wanted the best for his three daughters and never said girls can’t do—fill in the blank. He was the best girl Dad a young woman could want.

Miss you Dad.

[hamsterjill]

118. I had that kind of father, too.

Never once told any of his daughters they couldn’t do something because they were female.

It made an impact because I’ve never believed that I (or any other woman) should ever be less than a man. I’m in my sixties and very different than a lot of my contemporaries who did not have that.

[bucolic_frolic]

3. This whole worship of some grand outside presence

be it God, mom, dad, siblings, food, money, television ... these are not helpful in empowering the self and setting firm boundaries for the self. No wonder so many have issues. Trust the self, respect others, learn to enjoy .... these are absent. It's worse since consumer culture took hold post-War (WWII). In my mind anyways. I had all the fakes thrown at me. For some reason they fed my piggy bank for successful potty training. This was humor as well as motivation to them. So you think DUers don't reveal ... ha!

[AltairIV]

4. god given rights

It upsets, what they believe to be, the god given power structure of mans dominance over all creatures and dominion over earth. F*ck them.

[Attilatheblond]

17. Cop pal told me about his mentor/partner when he was a rookie Chicago cop

Mentor/partner to my pal on their way to a domestic dispute call: Do you know what the most dangerous item in a home is?

My pal, then rookie replied: Knife? Gun?

Older, wiser cop replied: Nope. The most dangerous thing you will face in a domestic dispute call is a big ol family bible on the coffee table.

Years later, my now seasoned LEO said he has since found that to be true.

edited for typo in headline

[malaise]

26. Profound

Rec

[Think. Again.]

5. religion is usually the root cause...

...of widespread social evils.

[ancianita]

19. Not so. Power was stripped from women before religions were formed. Prior to Abraham, and way before the Greeks,

Sumerian and other Mesopotamian cultures had female gods, as India does today. Patriarchy isn't a Western invention but since Abraham, and the presentation of his God as male, patriarchy has used religion and violent means to create hierarchies of wealth and power that now make the West and its religions the richest and most powerful on the Earth. That's not a good thing.

[Think. Again.]

20. You just proved my point.

[Farmer-Rick]

33. There are indications that it started with agriculture

Agriculture is seriously labor intensive. Men are lazy. Women are easier to threaten, being weaker and fearing for their children. Women were forced to labor in the fields.

There were ancient societies that had no word for male slave. To be a slave was to be a woman. Women were thought of as animals and property. That attitude was picked up by religions to justify their way of life and abuse.

Of course men eventually learned they could force anyone into slavery. But that attitude of abuse towards those weaker and less powerful is constantly on display in a capitalist society.

[YodaMom2]

43. Much of this began when men figured out they had something to do with conception.

Before that, female deities were common and powerful: the Mother goddess, the source of life and abundance.

Then, some dudes made the connection between sex and conception. All of a sudden it was the Father god, the strong Daddy who was in charge. Women ceased to be the blessed givers of life and became nothing more than vessels, the fields where men would plant their magical seeds. Men became extremely, even violently, controlling of female sexual behavior - after all, what man wants to provide for some other guy’s bastard? And all of this control, this valuing of female “virtue”, this suspicion of and contempt for women, this misogyny, became central to male-centered monotheism.

And here we are.

[BlueSky3]

76. Yes. The book, When God Was a Woman,

explains life pre-patriarchy. I stopped taking my daughters to a mainline Christian Church as I sat listening to the Methodist liturgy that essentially worships the male gender. How could they not believe that the little boy sitting next to them was closer to God than they were?

[OMGWTF]

48. That stupid fking story about Adam & Eve

and the talking snake was the birthplace of misogyny.

[ancianita]

49. That's not what the story of Adam and Eve was about at all. It was about free will having one parameter

Last edited Wed Jul 31, 2024, 03:29 PM - Edit history (1)

set by God, their creator. The serpent was a symbol of the first temptation of free will to BE equal to God. There's a lot more to the story, and breaking that free will parameter being broken led to their learning of good and evil, but the story was certainly never about misogyny, only breaking trust in the Creator.

[2naSalit]

93. It has always been used...

To justify misogyny regardless of its intent.

[ancianita]

95. Sure. I hear you. Whether or not the Bible is misused

isn't the Bible's fault. It's a fact -- misogyny doesn't exist in any of the Bible's 66 books.

Misogyny is misogynists' fault. Women adapt. Many of us might call hating or being indifferent to women some abstract name, but it persists because of other fearful, distrusting, irrational humans.

[summer_in_TX]

96. Agree in part.

Whether or not the Bible is misused isn't the Bible's fault.

Misogyny is misogynists' fault. Women adapt. Many of us might call hating or being indifferent to women some abstract name, but it persists because of other fearful, distrusting, irrational humans.

I think you miss the mark with this: "It's a fact -- misogyny doesn't exist in any of the Bible's 66 books."

While there aren't places in the Bible that I've found where men denigrate women or the work they do – and at least one of the Proverbs (31) extols all a wise woman accomplishes – I think the failure to recognize women as disciples and apostles by the men shows they had some blind spots. Paul does praise Lydia and mentions the apostle Junia, but for the most part they are limited by gender expectations in the roles described and their agency is not described for the most part, with the exception of Mary. At least in the New Testament.

[Beartracks]

98. Well, the Bible as we know it today was assembled by men who decided...

... which books and gospels to include, and which to leave out. I imagine other manuscripts might have included the testament and tales of more women in the early Church, but their omission from Bible canon relegates those books to heresy status, officially, I think.

[summer_in_TX]

99. That's quite possible.

[ancianita]

102. True.

And then the Qumran Scrolls found in the Dead Sea area in 1948 confirmed many OT books. The Book of Ezra was found in them. It writes of the Nehilim described in Genesis, which has rearranged modernscholars' thinking about how the Essenes sect lived and the existence of God's "heavenly hosts" and their roles and activity on Earth.

At the time when early church fathers were authenticating the records of Jesus' life in order to form the biblical canon, scrolls and books of dubious origin that were left out of the Bible were called apocrypha

[ancianita]

100. Thanks for your post. Well, then,

please quote the book, chapter and verse. Because I've been studying both OT & NT daily, not just reading them, for over a year.
Paul's words make up a lot of the New Testament, which is about spreading Jesus life, teachings and the new covenant He made to humans.
Paul was a Roman citizen, Pharisee, and Christian persecutor who jailed wayward Jewish believers, and oversaw the killing of Stephen, the first Christian martyr. And yet when Jesus appeared to him on the road to Damascus 6-7 years after Jesus' death, and Paul fell down blinded by the sight of Him, but still mercifully forgiven, Paul's gratitude was shown by his travels to start churches in Gentile lands, cities of Greece and other places, and even while jailed, writing letters that exhorted and encouraged his church elders who oversaw doctrinal worship and prayer in the new churches. I read his acknowledgments of Lydia and Junia, his words on women's roles in those churches, but I think that staying true to Jesus teachings in the new churches was his main concern, along with keeping peace, love and order by clarifying doctrine among novice believers, and not so much the promoting of agency of women at that time. What you describe is not what misogyny is, so there's no mark to miss.

[summer_in_TX]

125. I went back to the definition of misogyny and realize you are right.

There's no hatred or animosity toward women ever expressed throughout the whole Bible and certainly not in the New Testament.

Point taken.

[Backseat Driver]

58. Followed soon afterwards by the failure of male

responsibility to the Higher Power of men's belief - blaming their "wisdom" on what the losers were content to share with their tribe, the wealth of the planet.
The greed and the lust for power in the form of abundance; this worked better when the blame could be placed on females - nurturers of life itself. In our acceptance or "willful ignorance" women accepted the biblical requirements of the "virtuous woman."

The addiction of M-O-N-E-Y is the root of all evil in a populated world of gender orientation and identity on the spectrum of human uniqueness and how humans process knowledge.

Why? - Both Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge. When "free will" requires competition, WHY NOT blame others. Competition needs winners and losers; hence JD Vance's "childless women." They "bring nothing to the table" and why "pay for the cow when one can get the milk for free."

[JI7]

124. Japan is a very anti female society.

[Lonestarblue]

6. I wish I had answers but I suspect that religion, superstition about menses, and ignorance are all in play.

Here’s an old UK article (from 2018) that raises some interesting points about learned misogyny.

https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/men-hating-women

Dr Loretta Trickett of Nottingham Trent University tells me, “This has consequences for girls and young women. I don’t think the boys who do it realise the impact of what they do. Sexualised street harassment often involves older men targeting much younger girls.”

“If I were to go in search of this dark matter, that thing inside men that makes them treat women as two-dimensional characters in their three-dimensional narratives, I would have to look deep into the hidey-hole of the unconscious mind. There is a reason that the phrase “Tell me about your mother” is shorthand for the sprawling landscape of psychoanalysis. Adam Jukes is a writer and therapist of more than 40 years who, for half of that time, specialised in treating men who abused women. The author of Why Men Hate Women and What You've Got Is What You Want Even If It Hurts shares a common belief that it is the trauma of childhood and, most crucially, the relationship between a boy and his mother-figure that steers the course of male psychology.

“For the vast majority of people all over the world, the mother is a primary carer,” Jukes explains. “There’s an asymmetry in the development of boys and girls. Infant boys have to learn how to be masculine. Girls don’t. Masculinity is not in a state of crisis. Masculinity is a crisis. I don’t believe misogyny is innate, but I believe it’s inescapable because of the development of masculinity.”

[malaise]

8. Bookmarked for tonight

Thanks

[SilverDawg]

9. Patriarchal religions over

the centuries has played a role. After all, their god is a MAN; therefore, men are like gods in the scheme of things.

[malaise]

11. Classic illustration here

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19265188

[cachukis]

10. Hormones?

[58Sunliner]

12. The age old question.

Media has a large part to play. How many of us had a father who truly respected their mother? The core values of socialization has been said to be formed by age 5. The older a child gets the more he acts on those beliefs that are supported in society. A third of all women will be assaulted. Males are taught to be aggressive and see that reflected in the media as desirable. Trump is only a symptom.

[Ferrets are Cool]

13. Ding ding. We have a winna!!!

[KarenS]

14. I read a book about this subject,,,, many years ago now.

I don't remember the book's title.
But it reminded readers that the ancient civilizations had both gods and goddesses.
It's the more modern civilizations that have only a single male diety.

[twodogsbarking]

15. You ask such difficult questions. Effed up describes it.

[cyclonefence]

16. Cavewomen

should never have told cavemen where babies come from. That's where we lost power. Think about it: we bleed (regularly) and don't die, and every now and then we make a new human. Who wouldn't be threatened by a person wielding such power?
And then we told them, and next thing you know you've got the Bible, with Eve as causing the Fall of Mankind.

[malaise]

24. I have long felt that men fear our power over

Birthing life.
There is no them without us - that rib shit is just that- religious shit promoting patriarchy.

[MontanaMama]

36. There's a load of truth in this simple notion, imo.

We hold the keys to life. It is scary as shit for some of them.

[malaise]

38. So they want to control it

with abortion laws
We are not going back

[Eliot Rosewater]

52. With most right wing men they have a hard time getting with

Decent Women for obvious reason so they just end up hating them all.

[ancianita]

18. I recommend people read the 4 volume world history of women by Marilyn French. The only one of its kind.

It is about women, and also about how men stole power from their equals long ago to form the eff'd up patriarchal power systems we suffer under.

[malaise]

27. Wow

Never read that - thanks

[Silver Gaia]

61. More books...

The Chalice and the Blade by Rian Eisler

and

When God Was a Woman by Merlin Stone

feminist authors, classic feminist herstory work

[malaise]

64. Thanks

[Silver Gaia]

80. You are most welcome.

[Prairie_Seagull]

42. It's about time to ban some more books.

What came first...

[Bumbles]

21. I was told by my high school guidance counselor in high school in 1959 . . .

. . . when researching two fields I was considering, architecture and law, "women don't go into those jobs." I wasn't strong enough nor did I know myself well enough to "buck the system." So instead, I wrote about teaching and being a stewardess. Thankfully I found myself, and am still finding myself at 81, and am enjoying exploring new horizons.

[malaise]

28. Yes folks in those schools

have destroyed many female dreams.

[Bumbles]

56. Thankfully, you're never too old to dream - and, with good health, make things happen.

[birdographer]

22. Fear

Apologies in advance to decent men on here.

Men need to dominate, always have. But how do you dominate someone who creates life in their body? How is a man better than the person who brings humans into the world? They hate women for having that ability, for knowing that the human race can't live without women, while, with new ways to generate life without their sperm, women could live in a world devoid of men. And this fear and conflict manifest as hate.

[malaise]

30. Always a tough subject for the great and good men on our planet

but this is about something bigger than all of us. - our freedom as females

[ancianita]

50. Along with our freedom as females, the other something bigger at stake is

females' spiritual equality.

[Bluejeans]

23. Our Dad taught my brother and I to respect women

Our Dad, a devout Catholic man born in 1929, taught my brother and I to respect women, regardless of where we were in the world. He started from the easy stuff like not talking back to our Mom to holding the door for a woman. Later, as we entered our teenaged years, he taught us to not get to close physically to a woman in a store or elsewhere without announcing our presence and excusing ourselves. Dad believed respecting women was a core part of being a man.

[malaise]

32. You had a good dad

Nice

[barbtries]

25. patriarchy,

and fuck it. it's the 21st century already we should be over it but we're not.

[RainCaster]

29. Lackanooki - it drives the incels crazy

All those magats posting in mommies basement are the heart of the problem. They never understood girls when they were in school, and that has continued since. They have never tried to see things from a girl's point of view because they never ever had a serious heart to heart talk with a real girl. So here they are, now in their 30s, and they still have no idea why a woman would want to control her own body.

[Magoo48]

31. Much of it is derived from the male-centric stance employed in monotheistic religious tomes.

[Kid Berwyn]

34. Patriarchies do like the Pa parts.

To their most fervent members, Ma parts, they’re scary.

If men liked learning, they might want to know about Clytemnestra.

[Sky Jewels]

35. Yes, fucking RELIGION. What a scam! People have to stop believing this idiocy.

There is no magical MAN in the sky pulling the strings. That is just a dumb myth made up by primitive Middle Eastern goatherders. Stop buying into these fictional stories. Magic isn't real; Jesus wasn't magical; Jesus is never coming back; Mohammad did not ride a horse into Heaven; Heaven and Hell are not actually real; Satan doesn't exist; Earth is not the most important planet in the universe; humans are not made in the "image" of the all-powerful ruler of the universe, they are just a recently evolved primate species; Yahweh did not flood the entire planet (and even if "he" did, why would you continue to worship such a murderously cruel dickhead?). The primary purpose of most big religions is to create and maintain male supremacy. Think I'm exaggerating? Take a look at the fucking Roman Catholic Church.

[malaise]

40. A great post

Rec

[Sky Jewels]

41. Thanks, malaise.

[usonian]

37. Weak men project their weakness by demeaning women.

Strong men project their inner sense of equality, honor and fairness.

Q. Who gave you life?

[malaise]

39. Younwould think so?

Rec

[LoisB]

45. Great question.

[paulkienitz]

46. the strange thing is that it's getting worse

It seems to me that advances for feminism peaked a generation ago, and since then misogyny has been regaining mindshare in a way that can't be explained by the inheritance of traditional patriarchal values. Red pill creeps have been forced to invent a whole new ideology of their own to justify it, because they're growing a new base of misogyny instead of just preserving what came before. And it isn't just them -- other indicators are going backwards for how positively women are being seen and treated. For instance, the number of women in IT jobs peaked around 2000 and then started dropping. The anecdotal stories I hear from women about, for instance, poor medical care have gotten worse rather than better over this last generation.

[malaise]

47. That is what frightens me

I thought we were finished with this crap

[ancianita]

53. Agree.

We WERE finished with this crap, but men still are not.

They persist in trying to keep/"enjoy" the benefits of their hard won patriarchy, and so misogynistic contempt and abuse are the hard threat zone that bears down on females when the softer daily threats don't deter women who consider themselves men's equals.

[Big Blue Marble]

97. Remember the powerful never willing give up their power.

And the Patriarchy is truly the most powerful group in the world and has been
for a long time. It is seeded into every aspect of nearly every culture on the planet.

It will take wave after wave of progress and the pushback to finally break its hold
on the human race.

We are currently in a reactionary phase where those who subscribe to the Patriarchy
are deeply threatened and thus easy prey for demagogues like Trump.

The more progress we make; the harder the reaction.

[pat_k]

128. The Way We Never Were

The Way We Never Were, by Stephanie Cootz, was recommended to me by someone here. I've been listening to the audiobook. Data isn't up to date (2nd edition more than a decade old), but 'm finding it an interesting read.

The calls for a return to so called "traditional values," where man is head and master of an idyllic traditional family that serves him, certainly seem to be getting louder. Such nostalgia for a time that never actually was strikes me as a fantasy immature men cling to. A fantasy that brings to mind the 1971 essay "I want a wife." I re-read it a week ago or so. Great stuff. If it's been awhile for you too (or if you never read it) here it is:
https://www.thecut.com/2017/11/i-want-a-wife-by-judy-brady-syfers-new-york-mag-1971.html

And on the subject of family myths:
Here's a little run down of a few of them:
https://www.stephaniecoontz.com/node/388

[Warpy]

51. We know when that desert god came in, the status of women dropped like a rock

but back in antiquity, a decree had gone out saying that Christians could trade only with other Christians, which kind of left everybody else out in the cold unless they converted.

However pernicious Mother Rome was, the whole process had started thousands of years earlier with the development of agriculture and domestication of meat animals. By the time bronze was invented and weapons became more deadly, it was largely all over. Men sorted hemselves into warrior camps and warlords and women and children became property.

[orthoclad]

68. Replacing hunter-gatherer tribes

with agricultural settlements changed a LOT of things, including owning large amounts of property, not just personal possessions. Walled cities arose.

Patriarchy tends to arise from xeric desert cultures, where the little bit of fertile ground means power is physically concentrated. This gave us the male monotheism. Not right away. Mesopotamia had Ananna and other powerful goddeses, e.g.. It took time, conquest, and genocide.

[Warpy]

123. They've got pretty good records of some transitional cultures

like the Temple Builders on Malta and the people who were settled at Catal Hoyuk. Neither culture had much of a division of labor along gender lines and neither was particularly warlike, although the latter enjoyed bear baiting and other blood sport.

Once the population had grown to the point that land wa commodified, everything else was.

[PatrickforB]

54. I have wondered about this too. Don't these people have mothers? My mother has always been

one of my heroes, a person that served as an exemplar to me throughout my life.

And what about the earth itself? Isn't it our mother in both a spiritual and material sense?

I think a lot of it has been the patriarchal nature of the Christian churches. For example, even in today's Catholic church, nuns are considered laity, meaning they can serve but are not considered clergy. But I think it has been the protestant evangelical denominations, and particularly those christian nationalists (notice I did NOT capitalize that), who have so embraced toxic masculinity.

There is also a Wall Street/billionaire greed lizard aspect of it as well (Oh, I know, there I go again!). Now I have been a practicing economist for 18 years (someday I'll get it right ) and I can tell you that the US population has not been growing fast enough since the 90s to supply new workers for all the jobs being created through economic growth.

Since the capitalist (shareholder primacy) model assumes unlimited growth potential, which is the same philosophy that cancer cells have, the big-money people are placating their useful idiots by outlawing abortion, birth control, and all that in order to force our women to bear children they don't want and can't afford.

This way, the useful idiots who have been carefully coached to be xenophobic (we don't want no brown-skinned people flooding across 'Murikan borders!) can feel good about severely limiting immigration while at the same time our birth rate rises over time to compensate for the lost inflow of immigrants.

Very subtle, I know, but this really is the long-term policy thinking around misogyny. Now, I hope you don't think I'm trying to 'man 'splain here, because that isn't my intent. This really is the cautious interface between these freakish people ruled by raw greed and the MAGAts who are ruled by raw (and carefully cultivated) fear.

This is why I am fond of saying that when you lift up the slimy stone of shareholder-primacy capitalism to look at the squirming things underneath, it is always a bunch of old, white, liver-spotted male hands grasping for more PROFITS.

I mean look at Charlie Koch, who seems to have overstepped himself because the Trump campaign is working feverishly to distance itself from the 2025 Project because Koch's Heritage Foundation had the utter hubris to write all this down. Note the GOP DID adopt it in part as its platform...For God's sake, how much more money does Koch need at age 88???

In fact, I think hubris might finally drag these people down. Harris was like a fresh tonic for pretty much every sane American. I don't know about you, Malaise, but in spite of your handle on here, I'm thinking Kamala is the author of a growing joy, a growing hope and some much needed exuberance among Democrats and Independent voters.

[malaise]

63. All. True - great points

But it is not just the Christian churches

[PatrickforB]

84. You're right there. It isn't only the churches. It is also corporate culture. It is also the whole

'Father Knows Best' 1950s schtick that Mom would be home taking care of the kids while Dad went and worked.

Now, I was born in the 50s, and my mother was in fact a stay at home mom. Dad brought home the money. Mom cooked every night, and when Dad came home served him two drinks and brought out his dinner on a TV tray while he sat in his naugahyde easy chair.

Unfortunately, he made some bad business decisions and Mom had to go to work. Now she was a Rosie the Riveter in WWII while Dad fought in the Pacific - she managed the mailroom for National Buiscuit Company in LA. Why is she my hero?

Her boss once came up to her and said, "Oh, V. you are so good at this job! You really are doing great." Mom looked him in the eye and told him she couldn't eat praise and then suggested he give her a substantial raise.

She also taught me how to stick up for myself. She was a tough farm girl who did stoop labor out in beet fields for her dad and she took no one's crap. So when she thought someone was taking advantage of me, she would make me go and confront them and make it right. Because of her, I know how to take care of business.

Finally, when it became obvious she was going to have to go to work because Dad wasn't earning any money, she went into a Job Service Center, the precursor to today's workforce centers. The old white man who saw her, in spite of her experience back in the '40s, told her she didn't have any relevant skills and all he could in good conscience refer her to were charwoman or housecleaning jobs.

Mom didn't hear that. She left and found work as an Avon representative. Now this was back in the '60's, and Mom built a huge territory. Later, after Dad died, Mom went back to Avon and again built a huge territory. She once told me she didn't sell cosmetics, but light and hope. She said lots of her customers looked forward to her coming by, and for the lonely ones, she was a ray of light that brightened their day.

My daughter has them now, but Mom earned a whole shelf of Albee awards from Avon. Apparently this lady Albee was the first Avon representative way back in 1928. They were given yearly to representatives who had the highest sales volume. Mom did great.

Sorry for the ramble, but she was an amazing mother and an amazing woman, highly respected and loved by a whole bunch of people, me not least.

But yeah, women have gotten short shrift pretty much from the dark ages on, and have had to fight for everything they have, every right. To own their own property. To get loans and credit cards in their name. To go to college. To have abortion access and use birth control. No fault divorce. And as an economist I can tell you that women still earn less than men. You can find this in the US Census Data Economic Characteristics (DP03) for your own state, metro area or even at the county level.

Nope. It is WAY PAST TIME for us to elect a woman as president. My mother inspired me, and I believe Kamala Harris will inspire us all when she's Madam President. I have three daughters and two granddaughters, and it means everything to me that they can look at Kamala and know they can be anything they want to be.

And Trump? He's a fucking creepy rapist con man who richly deserves to be imprisoned for his crimes. And as someone who has a disability, I can tell you that I am appalled by what he told his nephew when he refused to help with the needs of his disabled son. The guy is a total dirtbag. And he's dumb as a stick. If he has the temerity to actually debate Harris, she will wipe the floor with him.

[malaise]

115. Lovely post

Rec

[SomedayKindaLove]

55. Great question

I’m not sure of the answer, but I believe it has a lot to do with fear from the birthing differences mentioned above. Fear explainsa lot of racism as well IMO.

I came from a fairly traditional household. My father was an educator and dean of humanities at a junior college and my mother raised the kids until we were old enough for her to work as a teacher and ultimately a therapist. Even though my father was the breadwinner, there was never a doubt in my mind my mother held the strength of the family. Almost like an invisible strength.

I only saw my parents fight once, and only picked up it was happening because my mother had become so silent at the dinner table. They had a beautiful relationship, possessed a humanitarian view of the world and were excellent models for me. I believe these are the main reasons why I didn’t become sexist or racist.

As a psychology major in the 80s, I saw how just about every study in the field was centered around white males, mostly college sophomores (and white rats). I took a Feminist Theory class and my world was turned upside down. Realized then that just about everything in life that I knew was forced through the narrow and limited scope of a male lens.

Piaget’s experiment with boys and girls showed boys tending to build up with the blocks, mirroring their sexual organs. Girls tended to build circles around them, also more closely mirroring their sexual organs. Men build up (ego) and women build around them (community). Which is more in line with the rugged individuality championed in America?

I guess because of my experiences, I think sexism is a learned behavior, with real biological roots as well. Recently I’ve started to think (mostly as an attempt at humor) that the Y chromosome is simply just a deformed second X chromosome. Men, I’ve heard said, rule over everything we can see. Women, rule over everything we can’t see. It’s that invisible strength, which I do believe is becoming more and more visible, that men fear and feel the need to suppress.

[Chakaconcarne]

57. Backlash against Feminism

[MineralMan]

59. Misogyny Is a Fear Reaction.

Men owe their very lives to women. That is undeniable. So, they need to claim power over women to minimize that. That is the core of the thing, in my opinion.

[malaise]

107. Profound

Rec

[Beringia]

60. Patriarchy formed to control women and offspring, and men defending territory

From an article below

The status of women has been a long-standing point of interest in anthropology. Contrary to common belief, research shows that the patriarchy isn’t some kind of “natural order of things” – it hasn’t always been prevalent and may in fact disappear eventually. Hunter-gatherer communities may have been relatively egalitarian, at least compared to some of the regimes that followed. And female leaders and matriarchal societies have always existed.

Reproduction is the currency of evolution. But it is not only our bodies and brains that evolve – our behaviours and our cultures are also products of natural selection. To maximise their own reproductive success, for example, men have often tried to control women, and their sexuality.

https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2022/sep/analysis-how-did-patriarchy-start-and-will-evolution-get-rid-it

[Skittles]

62. deep down

ALL men know that despite all their physical prowess and achievements NOTHING beats the ability to deliver a human being......most men are OK with that......others hate women.

That is my theory.

[FHRRK]

65. Simple - Their Momma didn't raise them right!

Nothing more, now part of that could be due to religious indoctrination.

[orthoclad]

66. Monotheism equals patriarchy

The distinguishing characteristic of the Abrahamic religions is the One True God is a guy, reserving divinity for maleness only.

But when Constantine made it a state religion, it co-opted a lot from the older religions with full pantheons. We have Mary worship (er, "veneration", but she''s a virgin) and all the female saints. Just look at the big votive candles for Santa Barbara, e.g., full of pagan symbols. People WANT both male and female divinity.

edit: subject line won't accept the equals sign

[mgardener]

67. It is a great question

And why do women politicians and voters support them?

[malaise]

69. I wonder about that too

Rec

[dlk]

70. Where in America is respect for women taught?

So much of our culture denigrates them, instead.

[malaise]

72. America?

Many parts of the world

[dlk]

81. Around the world, indeed

n/t

[SleeplessinSoCal]

89. Ever wonder why teachers are so denigrated?

They go after the teachers as well as knowledge. They seem to fear intelligence. There are prime misogynists like Matt Gaetz. It seems that being a trouble maker like Gaetz, who abuses his authority by going after underage girls, covers his actions by taking down leadership and going extra hard to take out Republicans who aren't obedient to their cult of sickos. He gets reelected. I've no real idea why.

[dlk]

121. Uneducated people are much easier to manipulate

The billionaires like their sheep.

[Evolve Dammit]

71. It was always in movies and TV. I just watched a few early "Cheers" episodes and was appalled at the sexism guised

as humor 40 years ago. It wasn't funny. We will not go back.

[malaise]

74. True

We have not evolved damn it- we may have regressed 😀

[Evolve Dammit]

116. The good news is that the Epsteins, Weinsteins, Cosby types have had various conclusions that may deter future abuses?

But it is rare and reveals/reinforces the two-tiered justice system where money and expensive lawyers can tie things up seemingly indefinitely.
Orange Julius remains the current front runner in that category. Think E. Jean Caroll has seen any money yet? I would be surprised if she has.
On a more personal note, I am glad you were safe in the last storm. You're bedrock here y'know!

[malaise]

117. Thanks

You too and as you know, I love your username .😀

We had just a bit of inconvenience whereas some folks in the three worst hit parishes still don’t have electricity and running water. Word is they will by the end of next week. Crazy.

[Evolve Dammit]

122. Hope they get power soon. We were out 9 days once in an ice storm. Never forget that.

[TygrBright]

73. Fear of their own inadequacy, I suspect. n/t

[BurnDoubt]

75. It's Called "Grooming"

[pandr32]

77. 💯

[soldierant]

78. "religion" did not invent it. I grant that it has mostly made it worse rather than better.

But the fact is, it goes back at least to the Bronze age, and probably much longer. But like all hatred, it is born of fear. In ancient times there was a belief (I'm sure not universal, but wide enough to have gotten into the record) that women had teeth in their vagina, and men had to be very careful, because some woman might bite off their penis. ("vagina dentata) To this day we refer to the sides of the vulva as "labia" (lips.)

A human who is afraid of someone or some group in time comes to hate the group and eventually to have contempt for it. I confess to it - I'm terrified of MAGA and also have deep contempt for it. And I'm positive that I am not alone.

I noticed some time ago that when people think a group is inferior to them, presenting examples of superiority in that group will not alleviate the hate, but make it stronger - because it makes the "other" even more threatening. As I type, I'm listening on the radio to a promotion of a live local performance, and the interviewee just referred to a singer/dancer/actor as a "triple threat." So on some level, we all know that. But if you belong to a group, such as men, which regards fear itself as "unmanly," you can't admit you are terrified. So it comes out as contempt.

Different cultures may do it in different ways, but we are all socialized to think that "male" and "female are not just different but exclusive. Yes, religion can make it worse. And that's pretty much any religion. But in many people, religion can also alleviate it. Because it's fundamentally opposed to the fundamental principle that all humans are human - a principle which underlies not only religions but also atheists and agnostics.

If knowing all that were the answer, we'd have corrected it by now. But it isn't - becaause, for the answer, it's necessary to get everyone to "buy in." And that's the hard part. And I have no suggestins for that.

[malaise]

79. And that's the hard part. And I have no suggestins for that.

THIS
Rec

[soldierant]

92. Thanks, malaise.

Praise from you is like the proverbial praise from Sir Hubert Stanley - praise indeed.

[BurnDoubt]

83. Once there was a quaint notion called "Seven Virtues"...

... since condemned by the Gospel of Prosperity as "weak" and " woke". There was a corpulent Republican gambling addict named William J Bennett who wrote a book called "The Book Of Virtues" in the 90's. The Irony was thick an deep. The Republicans and Christists hitched their wagon to the "Seven Deadly Sins", and never looked back. Deplorable enough for you yet?

[MyMission]

82. It's complex and multifaceted, both question and answer

My first thought, survival of the fittest, the strongest has bread many men who will expect to control and subjugate those who are weaker and who can be dominated, namely women.

My second thought relates to personality disorders, which existed before religion and were certainly made worse by numerous religious doctrines and practices. Societal conflicts throughout history have been addressed if not resolved in a variety of ways. I think back to the hunter/gatherer model. And the feudal period.

And i believe it's ultimately about personality disorders and cultural cues. Some men are raised (by women) to respect women, protect us because they are stronger. We are the "gentle" sex. But there's so much psychology about why someone who feels powerful, threatened, insecure, or wants to acquire or maintain control will behave in ways that show disrespect and contempt. Their masculinity is threatened. What tools do they have to resolve this? Some use brute force, others verbally control or manipulate. Women who resist are called bitches, and further threaten some men's position and self perception. The brutish men respond accordingly.

Men who treat women with respect, without trying to control or subjugate anyone, who try to live cooperatively and don't need to be in charge have always existed. They're numerous here at DU, and in the society at large. I take comfort in that!

[SpankMe]

85. Think of women in Afhganistan

A Trump/Vance Whitehouse will get us at least a third of the way to that standard. Subsequent Republican administration will complete the job.

Young people: vote. Please.

[malthaussen]

86. I have theories.

Thing is, searching for a rational explanation for irrational behavior is a mug's game. There is no way to make sense of something that makes no sense.

-- Mal

[Oopsie Daisy]

87. Feelings of inadequacy.

[iemanja]

88. It's ubiquitous

[Martin68]

90. Some boys learn it from their fathers, some learn it from the guys they meet in school who had fathers like that.

My Dad always treated my Mom with love and respect, and that's what I learned. Guys who looked down on women always creeped me out.

[Zeitghost]

91. Biology

Men are bigger, stronger and have hormones that increase dominant and aggressive behavior. Bigger, stronger, more aggressive things dominating smaller, weaker, less aggressive things is the norm. Through societal forces and rational thought, some have learned to become the exception to that norm.

[appleannie1]

94. Religion for the most part. The religious books be it Bible, Koran or whatever were written by men who claimed God

spoke to them. If you read the old testament God told them how to treat women. The man was so important that if the man died his brother was to take the widow into his household and treat her the way he treated his own wife. Women were treated like servants and if not a wife, they were consorts as well. In richer households they also had harems as well as wives. If the woman did something wrong, the man was to give her lashes. That is how it started and in some households it was passed down from generation to generation even if the were no longer strictly religious. The woman's "place" in a marriage was to cook, clean, raise the children and lay down on command for her husband. That was her only role. If she strayed from that, there were consequences.
As a child I saw a man on top of his wife, beating her with fists clenched. I turned to my dad and said "stop him". My dad replied "I can't, she is his wife so he is allowed". My dad never laid a hand on my mom except when he put his arm around her shoulder as they sat side by side.
I worked in a police department in the 70's and 80's. There were no laws against a man beating his wife. A woman could not buy anything on time without a man signing for her. She could not get a credit card in her name either. The Republican male wants to go back to those days. They had more control then. Since women made less than men doing the same job, they could not afford to leave a husband and support their children. They were stuck in marriages that were hell to endure. That is what the Right want to go back to.

[elleng]

101. I'm not familiar with it,

didn't occur in my family.

[Duppers]

105. You're damn lucky!

Where did you grow up?

[elleng]

106. New York

'In Jewish thought, a sin is not an offense agaist g-d,
an act of disobedience. A sin is a missed opportunity to act humanly.'

[Doodley]

103. I'm a man and have no idea why some men are like that.

[malaise]

109. There are many good men

;hi:

[Tweedy]

104. Some men

I suppose I have been lucky, but I have known few men like that. I do run in to the occasional
Fellow who thinks he can intimidate me but that is more of a professional technique (a bad one imho) than a personality flaw.

I see more jerkwad men on the tv than I do in real life. I would wager that is also true in tiny town rural USA. Most of these people are brainwashed into wearing Kotex on their ear.

[Brainfodder]

108. Too many possibilities? Experiences vary too much for a coverall answer?

I am sure we can list quite a few though, if you really want to get into it?

[prodigitalson]

112. Its taught by word and example down through

generations...like racism

[Javaman]

113. self loathing.

I'm a guy and I have know these types all my life.

I never got them but at the end of the day, they all had one thing in common, a sense of self loathing.

[mucholderthandirt]

114. They are afraid of us.

We are stronger, more resilient, we can carry babies, and if science is right, we'd be able to make babies without men at some point. I think the whole thing about our monthly cycles scares the crap out of men. We bleed every month, but we don't die! To primitive people, that had to be some kind of magic.

Look to science, and before that to myth.

[Marthe48]

119. I had a thought awhile back

Men won't go through the physical pain of giving birth and from the time people understand the entire process of pregnancy and delivery, we have to accept that our mothers suffered for us and we can never repay them for that suffering. The shame some people have for causing their mother pain can't be resolved and in some people, it turns into anger. Not to make it crass but how many people owe money and get mad at the lender because they can't pay?

Most mothers release the debt, or do the best they can to make their born children know they were worth every pang. Other mothers tap into the universal guilt and shame to keep an edge on their children, especially boys.

The unspoken debt we all owe Mom goes beyond the delivery of the born child. Maybe not so much any more, but the burden of care fell largely on the mother-feeding, cleaning, teaching, nurturing. The adult men who haven't forgiven themselves for the pain they caused their Mom might also feel resentment that Mom saw them naked and vulnerable. As a culture, we still teach men that they must be strong and able. Knowing that they were completely reliant on their mother, a woman, for their very survival, is going to fuel that unrecognized anger and once again, flip love and affection into anger and contempt.

[milestogo]

120. Then there's the vagina dentata myth...

Vagina dentata (Latin for 'toothed vagina') is a folk tale tradition in which a woman's vagina is said to contain teeth, with the associated implication that sexual intercourse might result in injury, emasculation, or castration for the man involved.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagina_dentata

[OAITW r.2.0]

126. As a male, I can't explain it.

My sisters have always been my equal. I've always treated all women in my life as my equal.

[brush]

127. Not me. I've loved and been loved. Lost one with regret, but ultimately foumd the love of my life.

And we married each other.