Isn't it obvious the VP pick is Shapiro?

[TheFarseer]

The first rally with the running mate is in Philadelphia?

[Haggard Celine]

1. It looks that way, but I hope she's

considering other people as well. I don't really have anything against Shapiro, I just think there are better candidates. I never see anyone mention Sheldon Whitehouse as a running mate for Harris or any other nominee. He's likeable and smart and I don't think he would be an attention whore. But of course I will support whoever she picks. She has lots of good choices, so many that it's hard to figure out who is the best.

[DFW]

4. Whitehouse is 69

I think everyone is trying to pull back from the 70 somethings, which Whitehouse will be before his first year in office would be over.

[Haggard Celine]

6. I see.

Well that's just a shame. I didn't realize he was that old. His age wouldn't even be an issue if it weren't for the fact that the President had to drop out after receiving pressure from fellow party members.

It's time for the younger people to take the reins and learn how to wield the power they've been given. It's a given that they are going to do things we don't like, but it's imperative that they learn how to get back up after they fall down.

[DFW]

13. I'm 72, so don't even bother tossing that in my face

The Republicans nominated a completely unqualified VP candidate—not because he is a brilliant prodigy, but because he is 39 and looks good on TV. The age thing WAS irrelevant until we let the media lead us around by the nose and they made it an issue. It’s too late now, and everyone is now playing by their rules. Obviously, Senator Whitehouse is perfectly qualified for not just the Vice-Presidency, but the Oval Office itself. That is no longer enough. “But his/her age!” has become the new “But her emails!” We let it happen, and history does not have a reset key to click.

[ms liberty]

14. I wish I could rec this a thousand times.

[EYESORE 9001]

19. I'm 69 and still performing at a decent level of executive function

As long as companies want the advice of an opinionated old fart, I’ll keep working.

[DFW]

23. I'm still working full time as well

I’m at the end of my annual vacation now, which I usually take in the USA. I live in Germany, and I’m usually in a different country every day when I’m working, and have had this schedule for over 40 years now. So it’s not like I think that age is an issue—not with the outfit I work for. I started with them when I was 23. That was 49 years ago. The same two guys still run it. We were maybe twelve guys and I was one of the oldest. We’re maybe 800 people worldwide, now, but there are about 200 million registered voters out there whose views carry just a bit more weight than ours/mine.

[EYESORE 9001]

35. My case is different

The longest I’ve ever worked in one place was 18 years. I’ve moved around a lot - not to places where I necessarily wanted to go, but it’s been an interesting ride.

[DFW]

43. The Rheinland is very central, so it's both pleasant and convenient.

I try to get home at night. Even when I have to run down to Spain, if I can get the 6:45 flight down to Barcelona, and it’s a day when the 7:30 PM flight back to Düsseldorf is running, I’ll do it. The flight is just shy of two hours, and I’m about a 20 minute drive, max, from the D’dorf airport. With high-speed trains, I usually don’t even fly any more to places I visit several times a month, such as the Netherlands, Belgium or France.

[EYESORE 9001]

44. My experiences in Western Europe were long ago, but that hasn't curbed my enthusiasm

Unfortunately, time only allowed visiting Scotland, England, Hamburg, Frankfurt, and Cologne in Germany. It was early January, so I craved some warmth. I proceeded through Nice to Marseille, where I was gripped by a nebulous, free-floating anxiety that I was in a dangerous place. I understand it’s only gotten worse in the half-century since. Continuing on, I spent a couple of days in Barcelona and had a spectacular time, then I had to proceed to Rota, Spain to catch a MAC flight back stateside.

[DFW]

50. Way back when, I used to live in Barcelona

Learned to speak Catalan, the whole nine yards. I still use it regularly, and I still love the city, though the crime from imported Eastern Europeans and North Africans is annoying. It’s not rampant, but you need to be constantly vigilant, and I hate having to do that. I don’t go down to southern France any more. I still work with guys from there, but I meet them in Paris when I’m there (those hi-speed trains, you know). I have a shorter ride from Düsseldorf to Paris than the guys from Marseille! We have friends in Köln (Cologne), though we don’t stop there much. It’s only about 40 to 50 KM from Düsseldorf, anyway, and the commuter trains between them run every 20-30 minutes.

Believe it or not, we’ve never been to Scotland or Rome. From the people I’ve met from both places, I think I’d have less of a language problem in Rome! I can handle Italian. Scottish accents take getting used to.

[EYESORE 9001]

53. I was the target of an attempted pickpocket operation in Marseille

A group of about six children - none older than 10, going by appearance - surrounded me. One kept thrusting a piece of paper with someone’s picture on it while some others went behind me and started jostling to distract me. I feel fortunate to escape without a lot of unnecessary trouble.

[DFW]

58. I saw an attempted pickpocket robbery on the Barcelona metro

The thief had targeted a well-dressed Chinese guy, and actually had his wallet in hand before the Chinese guy noticed it. When did notice it, the Chinese guy grabbed the wallet and they had a brief tug of war until the Chinese man, with his free hand, proceeded to give a brief one-handed martial arts demonstration on the thief. Not only did he get his wallet back, but a lot of applause from the rest of us. The thief took off running, as we were just pulling into a station as he was receiving the end of his martial arts lesson.

[Happy Hoosier]

40. Whether you like it or not....

it is an issue this cycle. IMO, we can have this fight later, but since we are reaping the rewards of selecting a Gen-X candidate, let's embrace that and go with that position.

IMO, a candidate that emphasizes the "youth" of the ticket will be of more use to us.

[valleyrogue]

54. The ageism is completely repellent. 69 is not old by any stretch of the imagination.

When Reagan was elected at that age, it was 44 years ago, and lifestyle/medical advances have greatly improved since then.

Are people buying the false narrative Biden is "senile"? If he were, why is he still in office? He is sharp as a tack, that's why.

Stuttering, gaffing, and having neuropathy in one foot are not signs of "senility."

[servermsh]

2. I'd say no

The campaign has said no pick had been made. The Harrris campaign just got started. There is litle time. They needed to schedule these campaign events now and couldn't wait for the pick to be finalized.

[FalloutShelter]

3. I agree.

Not necessarily about Josh. Philadelphia is the Cradle of Liberty. What better place to kick off the introduction of the ticket?

[DFW]

5. Pennsylvania is vital no matter is who is picked

It makes sense as a kickoff location whether Shapiro is picked or not, so no, I don’t see why it’s obvious that Harris has decided on Shapiro over any of the others. We’ll know in a few days in any case, so I’m not going to spend much time on the subject.

[EYESORE 9001]

38. You make valid points about selecting Josh Shapiro

I’m good with the nominee - no matter what. Seems presumptuous to second-guess decisions from the party leaders. I can’t envision having a problem with anyone mentioned so far, and in the unlikely event that the actual selection gives me the willies, I’ll keep it to myself.

[DFW]

45. None of the names in the headlines give me the willies

Of course, the Harris campaign is under no obligation to choose someone in the headlines. I’m sure they have taken Joe Biden’s wise tactic to heart: “Wow, I sure didn’t see THAT coming!”

And if someone “obvious” IS picked, it will be one of many such obvious people, each of which seems to have their fans. I don’t consider my own personal preference (Buttigieg) to necessarily be the wisest selection strategically. That would be more like Walz or Kelly, and since I know Mark and Gabby, it would certainly be cool to have a personal acquaintance become the Vice-President.

Again, it could just as easily be a surprise “none of the above,” some Eric Swalwell type who has been keeping a low profile up to now. This year has been one of surprises so far, and I have received no formal notice that they are over.

[EYESORE 9001]

46. It's gotten to the point that I've given up on prognostication

Ol’ Nostradumbass here is hanging up his pointy wizard hat.

[Demsrule86]

79. The first rally is in PA...this makes me think Shapiro is her choice...good choice. We need PA to win.

And Shapiro is a popular governor who won overwhelmingly in the governor's race.

[pinkstarburst]

7. Not really

Pennsylvania is a swing state. She's also going to Michigan (Buttigieg's home state) and to Arizona (Kelly's home state.)

Personally, I hope it's not Shapiro.

[Demsrule86]

80. Fine....that is your opinion. I want to win. And I know how important PA is...

At this point not picking him would likely be seen as a snub in PA...I live in Ohio but we are close to PA and we get local news there and everyone is excited by Shapiro being chosen. Shapiro will deliver Pennsylvania IMHO.

[polichick]

8. When they released the schedule, the campaign tweeted...

…not to read too much into the kick-off location. So ???

[gab13by13]

15. Man, you are way too obvious, you need to do better,

Shapiro won an election while in college for a campus position, Beat out a popular Republican for state Rep., won 2 terms as Attorney General, Easily beat Trump-endorsed Mastriano for Governor. Shapiro is extremely popular in Pa., never lost an election, picking Shapiro guarantees a win for Kamala in Pa., 19 Electoral votes and a dagger in TSF's chances.

[gab13by13]

30. You are using right wing links,

are you aware that they are right wing?

[BeyondGeography]

42. The Inquirer is not RW, neither is New Republic or Slate

https://newrepublic.com/article/184151/one-vice-president-ruin-democratic-unity-josh-shapiro

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/07/kamala-harris-vp-josh-shapiro-antisemitism-israel-protests.html

I started out thinking Shapiro was the best option because the polling numbers in PA were alarming. Now I think he’s the least attractive option on the table. Polling has narrowed. Walz, to me, has distinguished himself as the best option not least because he has 12 years worth of relationships in Congress that he can draw on to help Harris legislate; outside the PA delegation, Shapiro would be starting from scratch relationship-wise with Congress; Walz is a natural with swing voters everywhere and anywhere; Walz has a strong military background; Walz as a lifetime hunter and ex-military is a better messenger on guns; and younger voters, who have helped us narrow the polling gap, have major issues with the stridency Shapiro has shown vis the pro-Palestinian movement.

Walz isn’t risk-free. They’d go after him on the Floyd riots and I imagine he could go off-script at times and cause his handlers headaches. But those are manageable issues. Protestors wouldn’t be showing up at his events nor would they be dogging Harris for picking him. For me Shapiro’s skill set is more top-of-the-ticket than supporting act, plus he has vocal opponents in our base. If it’s not Walz, I’d prefer Beshear or Kelly, both of whom would be maintenance-free and perfectly fine candidates.

[SocialDemocrat61]

11. Nothing is obvious

Best not to indulge in wishful thinking

[gab13by13]

16. Why? I like Shapiro, I hope he is the pick

but I will be happy with whoever the choice is and once that choice is made I will donate 100 dollars to show my support.

I think if everyone donated something when the choice is made it would send another powerful message.

[claudette]

27. Agree

I like Shapiro a lot but would support anyone Kamala picks

[karynnj]

34. Shapiro is very impressive, but i wonder if Harris needs her version of "Biden"

Biden was chosen because of his Senate and foreign policy experience AND because he was the epitome of down to earth rust belt American. Everyone who is on Kamala"s list is exceptional and brings a lot to the ticket. All of the governors bring executive experience, many bring military experience, all bring demonstrated competence.

Kamala Harris comes in with far more experience than Obama had. She also brings as much joy to running as anyone I have seen. She also has managed to connect with many people very quickly in the last 2 weeks. It is hard to think of any area where a VP would be needed to augment her skills and abilities. She has the luxury of picking who she wants to govern with and who could step up.

Thinking of the Midwest, where I grew up and my family is rooted, I wonder if Kelly, Walz, or Beshar might act as Biden did for Obama in being someone they can identify with who can vouch for her being on their side.

I really like all of the possibilities and I am impressed that the media became aware of all of them being vetted. This has given all of them a huge amount of media attention, which is all to the good. I think all of them have made it clear that they will be out there if chosen or not. This is a great thing and a huge contrast to the cast of characters seen at the RNC.

I would be happy with every single one.

[SocialDemocrat61]

56. Hope for the best

But expect the worst and you’ll never be disappointed

[Johnny2X2X]

12. Campaign is playing coy

They also have campaign events with the VP and Harris next week in Arizona and Minnesota. So I think they're doing a good job of creating sepculation and excitement. Seems like this campaign is media savvy with Harris in ways they weren't with Biden.

[gab13by13]

18. Gretchen Whitmer and Shapiro campaigned together

for Kamala in Philly.

Gabby Giffords campaigned with Shapiro supporters for Kamala at a church in Philly.

There are signs, but Shapiro isn't a lock.

[Deminpenn]

17. Dems need to hold on to all the governor and senate seats they have

In PA, we have a divided state legislature in which R hold the senate and Ds have a 1 seat majority in the house. Our LtGov Davis is a Dem but just 33 or 34 years old. He's not nearly as polished ot experienced as Shapiro. It was just 2022 that Dems were able to retake the state house and break the R stranglehold on the state legislature. Pennsylvania Dems would prefer to build on success rather than potentially take a step backward.

[gab13by13]

20. You are making a case for Kamala to pick Josh.

I believe that Kamala will win Pa. without picking Shapiro, but Magats have been pouring tons of money into Pa. TSF did win Pa. back in 2016. I feel much better about Pa. and its 19 Electoral votes going to Kamala with Shapiro as VP.

If we end up with a dictator state legislatures won't matter.

[Johnny2X2X]

21. Dems need to win the White House or we lose our Democracy and freedom

I would trade all 50 governor's mansions for the White House this election because if Trump gets in, we don't have future elections, or I should say, the future elections we have look like Vanezuala's current one.

[pinkstarburst]

73. I agree. For this reason I prefer Buttigieg.

Putting him on the ticket as VP doesn't pull a governor out of a key state or even worse, cause us to lose a senate seat we may not win back. It would be absolute madness, for example, to put Andy Beshear on the ticket, losing a democratic governor in ruby red Kentucky where we won't get another one elected. Equally crazy would be putting Mark Kelly on the ticket. We are not guaranteed to win back that senate seat and it was very close when Kelly won it.

[Gaytano70]

24. I don't think it is obvious.

If the announcement was being held in Phoenix, Minneapolis, or Louisville then yeah, I would think it was Kelly, Walz, or Beshear. Philadelphia is an iconic city in American democracy, and I can't think of a more perfect location to announce the next Vice President.

It definitely could be Shapiro, but it also could be Buttigieg

[TheKentuckian]

75. Not super far from the Delaware HQ

It could just make logistical sense to start there.

[Emile]

25. I hope not.

[Gaytano70]

28. Not what?

[Emile]

29. I hope it's Walz.

[Gaytano70]

31. I love Tim Walz!

I lived in Mpls for 6 years, and I still consider MN my second home.
Also, if Walz is chosen, Peggy Flanagan becomes MN's first woman, and first Indigenous (White Earth), governor!

[Emile]

32. Wow, didn't know that fact about Peggy Flanagan.

Another good reason for Walz!

[underpants]

37. It could severely affect the youth vote

It will probably be seen as some sort of okay to Israel and the kids know what going on in Gaza.

[honest.abe]

33. I hope we dont have people upset with the choice.

[Emile]

36. Me too. Myself I will support the ticket. I just

hope her choice will be someone who doesn't call themselves a moderate. We don't need a moderate to win. Joe Lieberman, Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema all called themselves moderates.

[honest.abe]

41. I just hope we all trust the Harris campaign to make that call.

But I get your point.

[claudette]

26. That would be great!

I really really like him!!❤️

[Renew Deal]

47. I wouldn't call it obvious

Philly is also a larger media market in a swing state.

[Celerity]

48. I hope not, for the multiple reasons I have laid out before:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219268284#post36

Of course I will fully support him if Harris does choose him.

[TheFarseer]

49. The fact that he supports school vouchers

Is very troubling to me. It’s the GOP’s job to try and destroy public schools. Why is one of our elected leaders trying to help them?

[honest.abe]

51. You do realize Harris's vetting team has alot more information that you do?

I would cool it on any hard criticism of any of the VP possibilities. It might be hard to walk back if the one you dont like is chosen.

[Celerity]

60. I simply listed out clearly (and very publicly) known stances, actions and issues. I also have said over and I over that

I will fully support whatever VP candidate she picks.

I just think, when performing a bog standard risk/reward analysis, that Shapiro carries the most risk of potentially causing an intra-party schism (for the reasons fleshed out in my post at the link in my initial reply on this thread).

I do not agree with your telling me to 'cool it' when all I am doing is laying out a documented and rational case why I would prefer another VP pick. This is a discussion board after all, and I am well within its rules with my posts on the subject.

you said:

It might be hard to walk back if the one you dont

Not at all, the same as thousands of DUers do every time there is an open Democratic POTUS primary, plus the many contested Democratic Congressional primaries.

[honest.abe]

61. Have you also posted publicly known issues regarding the other candidates.

That would also be within DU rules. Seems your beef is with just one.

[Celerity]

64. Yes, on Kelly (union/labour issues) and (in a reply) Peters (over his support for an unconstitutional anti-BDS bill)

Like I said, I will support whatever person she picks, but debating pros and cons is a valid pursuit and well within the DU rules, as evidenced by decades of similar debate here on this board (long before I became a member here 6 years ago).

[honest.abe]

65. I think its unproductive and unhelpful to get into harsh criticism of any of the VP candidates.

This is not a primary. We are not voting. This is a vetting process done in private. I have no problem with discussing the pro and cons but you seem to be excessively pushing the "negatives" of one particular candidate.

[Celerity]

67. I dispute your attempt to call it harsh. It is reality, as is the potential for a schism over it. Also, as I just stated

Last edited Thu Aug 1, 2024, 12:51 PM - Edit history (1)

I did not single out only Shapiro.

I also take issue with your term 'excessively' as there have been a shedload of pro Shapiro posts. I have never called those posts excessive, nor have I ever once called into question any motives that those posters have. I cannot say the same thing about certain replies to other posters expressing concern over Shapiro, with some replies to them sadly devolving into false accusation of simple antisemitism as the primary motive for the other posters.

Far beyond this Shapiro or other VP pick debate, (and I am NOT referring to you, just to be clear) in my years here on DU I have seen (in thousands of replies and OPs) an unfortunate tendency for some to chose, right from the start, to attack posters motives, to assign ill, nefarious (whether open or implied) intent to people with whom the poster disagrees with. I have also seen, so many times, people assert that their opinions are unassailable, nondebatable facts, the only acceptable stances, and that to disagree with their opinions or stances automatically makes the other person a bad actor, and/or an enemy of the Democratic party, and/or altogether suspect, full of ill intentions.

I have always been very much against that type of debate framing and attack motif. It is entirely non-productive, and is designed to induce a chilling effect, to stifle debate, and is used to place the ones employing such methods into a position of undeserved agenda and 'terms of debate' setting power.

[honest.abe]

69. Ok.

[Celerity]

72. all good

[Alice B.]

66. I'm short on time -- does this also mention the harassment settlement he signed off on?

Involving one of his top aides and using taxpayer money?

That undercuts any zero tolerance position on Trump's treatment of women.

I live in PA and have admitted before that I wasn't paying close attention to our own governor. I was generically delighted by him until I wasn't. Now I'm neutral to okay with him as a governor, not so much as a VP.

[Chasing Dreams]

90. Would you have preferred the woman who was harassed not get a settlement?

IMO this was better than fighting the settlement. He wasn’t the harasser!

[Alice B.]

94. Of course not and I didn't say he was.

But the buck stops with the boss.

I don't like that members of the other party use it as an opportunity to stir the pot, and I am aware that some individuals cited as having heard or seen things, dispute the accuser's account.

But even considering all that, there is a perception that the matter wasn't handled particularly well. It raises reasonable questions of culture and management. From personal experience, as a woman with more than two decades of experience in the working world, even "mild" sh*t doesn't happen in a vacuum.

The aide was still going to work and collecting a check for six months after the accuser made a report and then left her own job.

Again, I repeat, the buck stops with the boss. It's not helpful.

[bucolic_frolic]

52. No, it's not obvious

Philadelphia, site of the nation's birth and cradle of liberty known worldwide, has become a traditional start and finish place for Democratic candidates and campaigns. Biden certainly used it often, as did HRC together with President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama in 2016. Trump made Four Season's Landscaping appearance there as well. And it's a battleground state for the opening battleground tour. So lots of reasons to be there other than a PA governor as a running mate.

[valleyrogue]

55. I hope not. Shapiro has been governor only 18 months.

If Harris wants a governor, she should pick Whitmer and really stick it to the old boys network.

[Paladin]

57. Hope so. (nt)

[phoenix_rising]

59. I don't think it means much

I wouldn’t read too much into the state where the first rally is held. IMHO it isn’t much of a tell, if you look at the past 20 years:

• ⁠Biden intros Harris (CA): DE
• ⁠Trump intros Pence (IN): NY
• ⁠Hillary intros Kaine (VA): FL
• ⁠Romney intros Ryan (WI): VA
• ⁠McCain intros Palin (AK): OH
• ⁠Obama intros Biden (DE): IL
• ⁠Kerry intros Edwards (NC): PA

I’m still hoping it’s Pete! 🤞🤞
Harris/Buttigieg 2024!! 💙🇺🇸

[NYC Liberal]

62. No running mate has been announced in their home state for a long time

Biden intros Harris (CA): DE
Trump intros Pence (IN): NY
Hillary intros Kaine (VA): FL
Romney intros Ryan (WI): VA
McCain intros Palin (AK): OH
Obama intros Biden (DE): IL
Kerry intros Edwards (NC): PA

Link to tweet

Now, that doesn’t mean it couldn't be Shapiro. But PA is a must-win state, so it’s a good place to announce no matter who it is.

[NYC Liberal]

63. No running mate has been announced in their home state for a long time

Biden intros Harris (CA): DE
Trump intros Pence (IN): NY
Hillary intros Kaine (VA): FL
Romney intros Ryan (WI): VA
McCain intros Palin (AK): OH
Obama intros Biden (DE): IL
Kerry intros Edwards (NC): PA

Link to tweet

Now, that doesn’t mean it couldn't be Shapiro. But PA is a must-win state, so it’s a good place to announce no matter who it is.

[Gore1FL]

68. "Obvious" in the sense that one possible variable has been identified that allows for speculation.

We'll know by Tuesday.

[angrychair]

70. I hope it's not

I think he would hurt us with the youth vote and in states like Michigan. I read a story in which he compared war protestors to the KKK. That is pretty extreme statement. If I'm wrong thanet me know.

I'm not against him if that is her pick I just think we can do better.

[pinkstarburst]

71. I hope not. The more I read about his policy choices

the less I feel he is the best fit for VP. Being VP is about more than just being from a swing state... and as far as I can see, what everyone says about Shapiro, is that he "will bring Pennsylvania with him" which isn't even guaranteed. I would rather have someone who the first thing people have to say about them isn't "this is the guy who gets us Pennsylvania" (and then has some problematic stances on other issues.)

[SocialDemocrat61]

74. One question is

Will Pennsylvania be out of reach without him on the ticket?

[TheKentuckian]

77. Out of reach? No. A hell of a lot safer for the win column? Yes.

It is very, very difficult to win without Pennsylvania.

Get that state on lock is a priority.

[SocialDemocrat61]

78. But is it the most important priority?

Does one state outweigh all other states and other constituencies?

[TheKentuckian]

84. Probably. What other states and what constituencies are you thinking of?

[SocialDemocrat61]

85. The real question is

Is there no other path to win Pennsylvania?

[TheKentuckian]

86. Answered. Yes, but the odds are lower.

[SocialDemocrat61]

87. Lower but not impossible

[TheKentuckian]

88. I see no reason to bet on "not impossible".

The idea is to improve odds not hope for the minimum for...reasons.

[SocialDemocrat61]

89. It's up to the Harris campaign

to make that bet.

[TheKentuckian]

91. That is true. I'll support whatever she decides and hopefully it is the wisest call.

[Demsrule86]

81. It could be...

[SocialDemocrat61]

82. Why?

There are no other paths to winning Pennsylvania?

[Demsrule86]

83. Consider this...he won overwhelmingly in PA...so what makes you think other candidates with really different ideas will

win easily? Perhaps those very ideas you embrace will be used against us in PA. Maybe Shapiro has what it takes...and we need to win or none of it matters.

[mahina]

76. No

Nt

[BannonsLiver]

92. I'm starting to warm up

If for no other reason than the loudest voices against him on the forum are from people who have suboptimal political instincts on other issues.

[Chasing Dreams]

93. Agreed!