Guess who pro-Palestinian groups don't want on the Democratic ticket.

[RandySF]

Gov. Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania took the stage at Wissahickon High School in the Philadelphia suburbs on Monday to the roars of his fellow Democrats, a campaign appearance and an audition all in one.

As he enthusiastically shouted out his support for Vice President Kamala Harris’s presidential campaign, the pro-Palestinian demonstrators who had dogged Democratic politicians last spring were nowhere in evidence. There was only the adoration of an audience from his native Montgomery County, which the Democratic ticket must carry by sizable margins in November to win Pennsylvania.

But as Ms. Harris prepares to name her running mate ahead of a rally on Tuesday in Philadelphia, those protests are very much part of the calculus surrounding Mr. Shapiro, who is believed to be on her shortlist of potential running mates.

Efforts by a motley collection of left-wing and pro-Palestinian activists to derail his nomination have presented the Harris campaign with a decision as the vice president prepares to make one of most significant choices of her career: Should she take the opportunity to stand up to her far-left flank in an appeal to the center of the party and to independents, or should she shy away from inflaming an issue that has divided and bedeviled the party — Israel’s war in Gaza?




https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/01/us/politics/shapiro-vp-israel.html

[Voltaire2]

1. Shit stirring from the NYTs.

Gotta have upset and factional disputes or the election could get out of hand.

[maxsolomon]

6. Seems more like a realistic appraisal of the risks associated with choosing Shapiro.

There are indeed Muslims and pro-Palestinian Progs who will react negatively to his nomination, and that could tip MI to MFer's column. Dems cannot afford to lose MI.

Regardless, you'd better cancel your NYT subscription.

[lees1975]

11. It would be one of the most stupid political moves pro-Palestinian groups could make to tip a state or the election

to Trump. They lose big if that happens.

I think a lot of that is NYT talk. The Pro-Palestinian crowd is over if Trump wins, and they get nothing by staying home. If there are enough of them to actually tip the balance in Michigan, they've got to know that their biggest enemy is Trump and that Harris, regardless of who the VP is, is committed to the cease fire and solution that Biden has already proposed.

If they want Gaza flattened, the population turned into refugees again and the land sold for beach resorts, then Trump is their guy and their stubborn resolve to stay home and help him win gets them that prize.

[Mountainguy]

140. I'm guessing they don't want anyone who doesn't think

that 9/11 was justified.



Fuck those people and the horses they rode in on.

[PeaceWave]

12. Why they would "react negatively" to a Shapiro nomination? Just because he's Jewish?

[maxsolomon]

13. Not just because he's Jewish.

He's not in Jewish Voices for Peace. He's not an "Anti-Zionist".

He's a "Zionist", like most everyone in the Democratic Party including the President. You do recall that "Genocide Joe" is a thing, right?

[Demsrule86]

18. You do understand that zionism means Israel has the right exist and Jews the right to live there?

During the dark days of pogroms in Russia, the final solution in Germany, etc...Zionists worked on bringing Jews back to the Middle East... a homeland where they would be safe. Historically, they have as much claim to what is Israel as anyone else. Now that being said, I think Netanyahu needs to go and has behaved disgracefully...but blaming American Jews for what Israel does is a non-starter for me.

[maxsolomon]

20. I do understand what Zionist and Zionism means.

I'm not saying that MY opinion is that Shapiro shouldn't be the VP nominee because he's a Zionist. I am a Zionist.

I'm saying that is the objection that key voter groups, namely Muslims in Michigan, who are largely NOT Zionists, would have to his selection, and for the NYT to write an article on it is not "shit stirring".

Was that not clear?

[Demsrule86]

27. All VP potential nominees...feel exactly as Shapiro does...but his the only one being targeted...the only

the only difference is that Shapiro is Jewish.

[maxsolomon]

56. Agreed. It's unfair.

but fair or not, Shapiro would be the most controversial choice among otherwise Dem-voting Antizionists, who were already threatening to withhold their votes from Biden over Gaza.

will their feelings about his Zionism be decisive for Harris? I doubt that.

[Demsrule86]

71. I don't support Palestinian protestors who have pro-Hamas signs and so on.... Jamal Bowman lost his

primary in New York for such support you know. PA is a must-win state...frankly, I don't give a damn about the pro-Palestinian
protestors who it seems to me are anti-Semitic. They go after the Jewish candidate but are fine with the non-Jewish VP candidates who feel the same way.

However, I think Shapiro will be the VP's choice and deliver PA...I don't believe any pro-Palestinian protestors will vote for us in the first place. So I remain unconcerned.

[Nixie]

142. Well said! This looks like a totally unnecessary pile-on

of Josh Shapiro by disinformation mongers. Trump is the enemy, and it's all hands on deck to support Democrats making sure he is sent home for good.

[Demsrule86]

72. It is not just unfair...it anti-semitic. And I am shocked at some of the posts...not saying yours.

American Jews have nothing to do with what goes on in Israel and should not be targeted because of it.

[TBF]

96. I agree - it is not our fault a bunch of terrorists are STILL holding Israelis hostage.

Several posts in this thread absolutely disgust me.

Governor Shapiro would be a fantastic VP candidate (I've been supporting him from TX since he ran for Governor).

[H2O Man]

89. There may be

a number of reasons that the younger generation of voters do not like Shapiro. Clearly, his position on Israel is one of them. And and important one. But it isn't the only one. Gov Walz would be a far more attractive VP candidate for young voters.

[TBF]

97. Really. What are the "number of reasons that the younger generation of voters do not like Shapiro". nt

[H2O Man]

109. Take a look.

You can do it!

[TBF]

118. lol - about what I figured - nothing. nt

[H2O Man]

135. Well now,

because O love baby robins, I suppose I'll have to feed you some pre-digested information., My sources are three female cousinf from PA, who grew up on Democratic Party politics. They grew up neighbors to then Governor Bob Casey, and I remember playing kickball with the neighborhood kids -- including the now Senator Casey -- when I visited them. My aunt and uncle were strong Democrats, and both were professors. She was often a state delegate in presidential elections, and President Carter presented him with the top national teacher award. I will not mention their last name, but even you are likely capable of goodling what Scranton educator that President Carter awarded.

Now, going back years before you were a DU community member, I posted information on PA politics that I attributed to my relatives. So I don't expect you to be familiar with that, or anything I've posted since then. But before he ran for Lt Governor, one of my cousins who knew John Fetterman from a chess league had told me she thought he had the potential to become president. I wrote about that then, as I trusted her judgement. (I should note that she has a fovernment position in Philly. She took me around when my daughter ran in the Penn Relays.) John McWhorter also is in the chess league.

She and her sisters gave told me that in the last two years, the numbers of young people registering to vote has dropped in the state. That is obviously concerning, because the state has been #1 in youth votes, I believe since 2008. The youth vote has been very important. Early on in this election season, young voters expressed a lack of interest -- and worse -- in a Biden Vs the felon rematch. This accounted for much of the lack of new registered young people. Of course, Gov Shapiro has addressed registration u[pn one's birthday, but that hasn't addressed the pace of membership in our party.

But it isn't the only factor. The unrealistic belief that Fetterman would be a progressive star -- similar to AOC -- has disappointed younf voters. This was true even before Israel attacked Gaza -- after Hamas conducted their horrible attack on Israel. Likewise, they seem to have unrealistic expectations for Governor Shapiro. This includes, for whatever reason, his flip-flop on capital punishment, which O considered moving in the right direction.

His position on school vouchers is not popular among young people who have concerns about religion's infringing on government. Obviously, they are correct on that one. I say that despite having a few remaining Irish Catholic relatives in Scranton. I am sure that God will forgive them for that error in thinking. We are all imperfect.

He started out right on sending National Guard troops to the southern border, but hasn't been as strong on that the since the Senate vote. These are issues that my cousins say are important to young people, including white ones that not only aren't afraid of non-white people, but tend to have non-white friends. Keep in mind that many of these young people are now in college, where self-righteous outrage and indignation are often located.

These young people are aware that Gov Shapiro has called for am immediate two state solution, and has called Netanyahu "one of the worst leaders of all time,” He has also correctly spoke out strongly against antisemitism. He made an error, however, in revising the state employees' code of conduct in a way that violates Amendment 1 tights. On the other hand, he has been strong on protecting women's right to chose.

No matter what you may think -- or what I think of Shapiro -- there are a variety of reasons why young Democrats do not find him a good choice for VP.

[TBF]

138. I do think the voucher issue is a concern -

my guess is that it involves Jeff Yass - who has also been involved (deeply) in financing our governor here in Texas in his quest to get voucher programs enacted. I do know Shapiro has done a decent job of at least trying to fund vouchers with funds other than those ear-marked for public schools. Which puts him way ahead of our Texas governor.

The other things I'm going to have to spend time researching - I do appreciate the assist from you in what they might be worried about. My own college aged daughter has mostly been abroad the past few years and all I know from her is that she and her friends are extremely excited that Kamala is now the democratic candidate. I don't think they disliked Biden, just that from the perspective of a college student 70-something looks "really old". I don't know that they care who is VP, but I am certainly going to ask now in our next phone call!

[H2O Man]

154. Both of my daughters

would have voted for Joe Biden, but are way, way more excited about VP Harris. Both od them have extensive networks of friends from high school and college, and from the workplace. And from what they tell me, these young people are all excited now.

Every so often, in conversations they will mention some "old" person. They think 50 is "old," while I am convinced anyone under 50 is a kid. When they say "really old," they mean my age.

[TheKentuckian]

136. Walz will be ExTIManation in a hot minute.

Bloodbath Breshear.

Pogrom Pete.

Genocide Gretchen.

Kill em All Kamala.

Stop even hoping to chase the Hamas fluffers, they are not voting for Democrats.

They would take Khomeini easily over any possible option.

[H2O Man]

137. I have never

hoped to get the pro-Hamas people to vote for any Democrat. What a silly, yet meaningless, idea that is -- one that would never have entered my mind, had I not read your post. However, among the good choices our party has, I favor Walz. He would get the most support ftom young voters, in my opinion. But I don't expect him to be picked. Whoever VP Harris picks is fine with me,

[brush]

88. Make him Sec'y of State and let's move on. The timing is just not right right now.

The most important thing is to stay unified for VP Harris and win in Nov.

Let's not let these kind of issues divide us.

[H2O Man]

91. Very good idea!

[Demsrule86]

100. I think Shapiro will be the VP...it give us an easy win in PA...

[brush]

102. That's one way of looking at it. Other views may differ and think it makes it harder to win.

Let's do the smarter, pragmatic thing.

[TBF]

146. Re-reading all this in the am (when I'm not annoyed from the events of the day) -

brush, who do you think would be the best pick? Are you thinking Walz as well? I know David Hogg likes him a lot. I wasn't really that familiar with any of them except Shapiro when the press started reporting who Kamala was considering.

Like the rest of you I will be fine with supporting whoever she chooses.

[H2O Man]

147. We do need PA.

Any of the governors is fine by me, It will most likely be Shapiro.

[brush]

150. Either Walz or Kelly.

Kelly because he's from a battleground state, important, AZ is also a border state so he's familiar with, and able to defend VP Harris on that issue, meaning she wasn't the 'border czar' as rethugs are claiming. She was Joe's liaison with south of the border nations to help them develop econnomies so their citizens stay instead of leave.

Also Kelly stayed with and care for Gabby. He's and astronaut/aviator, the whole dear...good candidate.

Walz is a big presonality, hard not to like, hail-fellow-well-met type, gift of gab, eloquent and speaks in a way that everyday people in rural areas can relate to. He's an ex-school teacher, a plus. He's a White male, a good balance for VP Harris — tht whole nine-yards balancing issue. And being from Minn., he's from a state that neighbors battleground Mi. and Wi., in the same boradcast market of Wi. in fact.

Thos are my two choices.

[H2O Man]

86. Thank you.

[Cha]

2. Yep.. Got It.. Too bad.

[Demsrule86]

3. Pro-Palestinian?...they don't choose our running mate...maybe they should consider Hamas started this and killed

Jewish families and babies...and I would add the protests are not effective IMHO... I have few fucks to give...attacking American Jews for the actions of Israel? Despicable. None of the VP picks support the protests. So why single out Shapiro except maybe because he is Jewish?

[Mossfern]

7. Agreed

and if there were any group against any other potential candidate because they were Muslim, or Catholic, or Atheist or Flying Spaghetti Monster worshiper there would be an outcry about bigotry.

Somehow it's not such a big deal about bigotry when the religion of the potential candidate is Jewish.

[Behind the Aegis]

8. Can you imagine if this was a bunch of Jews?!

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!

[SocialDemocrat61]

9. Who is the Muslim being considered for VP?

[Mossfern]

10. Sorry....

I was speaking hypothetically.

[Demsrule86]

22. The point is that any other group targeted as Shaprio has been would caused an uproar...but why does it

seem Jewish Americans remain afters all these years are fair game?

[SocialDemocrat61]

23. I've never seen Bernie Sanders targeted for being Jewish

Maybe it has more to do with his positions on issues.

[Mossfern]

25. He had a brief run for POTUS

and if I recall correctly, there was some concern that he couldn't win because he's Jewish.

[SocialDemocrat61]

35. He had two runs

and was a major contender both times.

There are a lot of Jewish elected officials in the Democratic Party from Debbie Wasserman Schultz to Jamie Raskin to Chuck Schumer and I don’t recall any major criticisms of them because they were Jewish.

[Mossfern]

48. Besides Bernie none ran for POTUS

I believe that Bernie's religion was an issue of concern. Not that Democrats in general are anti-Jewish, but the fear is that there may be those Independents or uncommitted on the fence who have issues with it. Strategically, unfortunately when there is a close race, relying on people's better angels is not a good strategy.

Certain Pro-Palestinian groups hinting or outright declaring that they will not support Kamala if Shapiro is her running mate play right into Trumps plan even though he would be supporting Netanyahu and his agenda.

Believe me, it does pain me to write the above.
I thought we were beyond this.

[SocialDemocrat61]

51. I don't disagree

about Independents or other groups of swing voters. What I object to is democrats being accused of bigotry because they have legitimate concerns about a candidate’s positions on issues.

[Mossfern]

54. Oh, for sure

I agree with you about that!

[whathehell]

92. The concern about Bernie centered on his policies

and socialist tag, concerns that I, as a fan, never had.
I heard no doubts expressed about his Jewishness affecting his chances to win.

[Demsrule86]

30. He supports the pro-Palestinians protestors and has all along...

[SocialDemocrat61]

38. So it's more about positions on issues

than religion

[Demsrule86]

74. Nope, if it was issues than Shapiro would not be single out.

Sanders did face skepticism that a Jewish candidate could not win in fact. I found that appalling at the time too.

[Demsrule86]

31. And may those issue are what will allow us win PA...he won by significant vote in PA.

[SocialDemocrat61]

37. So there is no way to win Pennsylvania?

[Demsrule86]

77. We have to win PA...I think Shapiro given his popularity wins it for us.

If we don't win PA, we will likely lose the election. Not many if any ways you can win without it.

[SocialDemocrat61]

84. Yes we do

But it doesn’t mean there is only one path to win the state.

[Demsrule86]

79. Of course there is...I think Shapiro give us the best chance though.

[SocialDemocrat61]

83. Probably

And that’s a big positive for him. And just as all the contenders have positives, they all have negatives which need to be weighed against each other.

[Demsrule86]

19. I find it appalling and consider it anti-semitic...This is DU we support Democrats... Shapiro is a Democrat and

should not be trashed like this.

[PeaceWave]

28. Shapiro is immensely qualified and will help Kamala carry Pennsylvania. Period.

[Demsrule86]

33. I agree...

[Cha]

80. If Gov Shapiro should be

Kamala Harris’ Veep choice .. there will be no more of that.

🕯️🕊️💙🌊🇺🇸

[Demsrule86]

81. I look forward to that!

[Cha]

40. And what TSF & the

Creep would do to Gaza.

I have receipts but Im on my phone now.

[brush]

93. See post 88. We're not going to solve th ME situation over who suould be the VP pick.

Concentrate on unity behind VP Harris for the WIN, not issues that divide us.

[obamanut2012]

5. "Pro-palestinian Isn't that another way of saying "Pro-terrorism"

No, and why would you say that?

[Passages]

151. I am not sure why some opinions do not consider other concerns.

The school vouchers were one, but to be fair to him, I believe he relinquished that policy consideration. Yet there are other conflicts.

Shapiro’s Call for Corporate Tax Cuts Contrasts With Democratic Goals
Next year in Washington will be all about the tax debate. In Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro is trying to accelerate corporate tax cuts, at odds with the top of the ticket.

BY DAVID DAYEN AUGUST 1, 2024
https://prospect.org/politics/2024-08-01-josh-shapiro-corporate-tax-cuts-democrats/#:~:text=Shapiro%20is%20trying%20to%20accelerate%20an%20already%20scheduled%20cut%20in,percent%20figure%20by%202026%20instead.

[obamanut2012]

156. Why did you post this to me?

[Passages]

157. Maybe I misunderstood, then just ignore the link.

It seemed that people were certain concerns about Shapiro were only in reference to Palestinians. That is not entirely accurate.

[Bucky]

14. Because his position is SOOO much different from the other governors

[democrattotheend]

127. No, but fairly or not, he'll be the most controversial to Arab voters in Michigan & young voters who care about Gaza

And it'll call the most press attention to the protests outside the DNC and the party looking divided. As a Jewish Democrat I just don't want to deal with that, so a big part of me is hoping she doesn't pick him. Which is so different from how I felt 24 years ago when Lieberman was picked, but in a climate where anti-Semitism on the far left and far right are becoming more normalized, and with everything going on in Israel, I don't want that much attention on the Jewish community and I don't want to be blamed if we lose.

[FrankBooth]

15. Too bad

If chosen, he'll be great.

[BannonsLiver]

16. I'm sure KH isn't going to be bullied by antisemites.

[Nanjeanne]

17. I am a Jewish Pro Palestinian Peace Activist and I don't want Shapiro on the ticket. Pritzker (also Jewish) A-OK.

Bernie Sanders on the ticket. Yes absolutely.

Jamie Raskin on the ticket. You betcha.

I don't want Shapiro on the ticket for a number of reasons - he supports R policies like school vouchers and tax cuts for business.

Re Israel - all the candidates have been supportive of Israel but their language hasn't been charged. Shapiro came down extremely hard against the pro Palestinian encampments and encouraged severe penalties against teachers who supported the protests. Shapiro issued an order aimed at Israel’s critics that revised his administration’s code of conduct to bar state employees from “scandalous or disgraceful” conduct — a vague and subjective directive criticized by the legal director of Pennsylvania’s ACLU as a possible violation of free speech protections.

I don't think he's the best choice for a number of reasons: He hasn't been Gov very long. Before that he was a state prosecutor. Harris is a prosecutor so his value there is unimportant. He has no military experience. He's a lawyer (worked many years in corporate law). Harris is a lawyer.

He can help her win in PA without being her VP. If the first rule of VP is do no harm - I think its a bad choice as he will alienate some labor, some youth, some progressives. I'd be more worried if he was in consideration for Sec of State though . . .

But this idea that anyone who doesn't want Shapiro on the ticket is somehow antisemitic is just ridiculous and insulting to many Jews - including me.

[Demsrule86]

21. We need to win PA more than bolster pro- Palestinian protestors . All of the VP candidates have same the view -you know

They don't support the protestors...so how is Shapiro different other than the fact he is Jewish? I would hope no one on this thread would say Shapiro should not be the VP nominee because of his heritage or his religion.

[Celerity]

42. I have seen no conclusive evidence whatsoever that we will lose PA if Shapiro is not the VP.

Last edited Thu Aug 1, 2024, 07:52 PM - Edit history (1)

I also take issue with other parts of your framing.

you said:

I would hope no one on this thread would say Shapiro should not be the VP nominee because of his heritage or his religion.

That is a red herring.

No one here is saying that at all. That is, IMHO, an attempt to move towards a direction where multiple people start to inject a stance that states (falsely) 'If you are are not already pushing for Shapiro, you may well be antisemitic', which is way out of bounds.

Many on this board have concerns over his actions and stances (including his still current, as of 2024, pro-voucher stance), ones that have a real chance of causing schisms within our Party, to a level no other regularly mentioned VP possibility (including Pritzker, who is also Jewish) could potentially cause.

also you stated

They don't support the protesters...

Shapiro was went beyond just comparing the student protesters to the KKK, he, for years, long before Oct 7th, has pushed for unconstitutional anti-BDS laws, and also has tried to quash the free speech of PA government employees. all of that has been documented here before.

[SocialDemocrat61]

45. There's also this

https://www.inquirer.com/politics/pennsylvania/josh-shapiro-sexual-harrassment-settlement-mike-vereb-20231020.html#:~:text=Josh%20Shapiro's%20administration%20quietly%20settled,after%20the%20settlement%20was%20signed.

[PeaceWave]

49. This is a hit piece. The commonwealth of Pennsylvania employees 80,000 people...

Josh Shapiro can't reasonably be held accountable for every one of them who commits sexual harassment. Get real.

[SocialDemocrat61]

52. It's still a concern

and something that really happened that was reported by several news organizations so it’s not a hit piece.

[PeaceWave]

55. It IS a hit piece because it makes it sound like Shapiro was somehow complicit. He was NOT.

An advisor committed sexual harassment. A settlement agreement was negotiated. The man was terminated. PERIOD.

[SocialDemocrat61]

58. He wasn't complicit

But it still happened on his watch. Like it or not it’s an issue that can be used against him.

[PeaceWave]

59. "Happened on his watch?" - Your boss isn't liable if you commit sexual harassment. That's on you.

[SocialDemocrat61]

61. This is politics

Different rules apply.

[PeaceWave]

62. It's old news that you're trying to re-hash is what it is.

[SocialDemocrat61]

64. I'm recognizing the reality

of things that can impact an election

[PeaceWave]

65. Sexual harassment happened in the CA AG's office when Kamala was AG - She was NOT responsible for it.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/mar/02/kamala-harris-california-sexual-harassment-payouts

Or, are you going to argue that these cases and settlements somehow disqualify Kamala? Seriously, you're grasping at straws here. For some inexplicable reason you're raising this nonsense issue with regards to Shapiro. What's your real agenda here?

[SocialDemocrat61]

67. I'm not grasping at anything

I’m trying to point out reality. The Clintons were cleared of all wrongdoing in the whitewater case by the republican AG of Arkansas but the republicans and the corporate media ran with it for years. They are still investigating Hunter Biden. That’s the reality of politics in this day and age.

[SocialDemocrat61]

70. I'm just pointing out reality

Like it or not, it’s a concern that some have.

[Sugarcoated]

115. Luckily pretty miniscule thing

Especially since the pussy grabber rapist broke the mold

[SocialDemocrat61]

116. Unfortunately

There is a much higher bar for democrats.

[Sugarcoated]

119. Still, it's a blip in the radar

Shapiro is known for going after pedophile priests here in PA.

[SocialDemocrat61]

121. Great

Let’s hope the corporate media focuses on that.

[Demsrule86]

123. You think the media isn't going to find dirt on everyone of our candidates?

[SocialDemocrat61]

128. Probably

[Demsrule86]

122. You want it to be the reality...but it isn't.

[SocialDemocrat61]

129. We'll see

[Demsrule86]

85. Oh please, it is not a concern for me.

Your concern is duly noted.

[SocialDemocrat61]

90. But it's not about you

It’s about undecided and swing voters across the country. What will they be concerned about that may get them to vote for Harris or Trump or just stay home.

[Demsrule86]

104. That is not true...It is a concern to me that many here are attacking Shapiro with the Sexual harrasment thing even

though it was handled and has nothing to do with him. It does concern me that there have been outright lies about school vouchers. I don't like to see a good Democrat like Shaprio smeared. I think Shapiro will be the VP...the sooner the better so this stops.

[SocialDemocrat61]

106. It's about voters

and what they think. Everyone here will vote for Harris. But that’s not true of the general public. There are legitimate concerns about all the VP contenders and there is nothing wrong with discussing them.

[Demsrule86]

111. It is certainly not about Palestinian protestors who likely won't vote for us anyway.

We need to do what is best for us to win this election. And PA is a very important state.

[SocialDemocrat61]

113. Yes it is

And it will be up to the campaign to objectively consider the positives and negatives of every person under consideration and make the best choice to win the election.

[Sugarcoated]

125. Many people

see it as both sides are to blame for the war and aren't on board with the pro gaza left

[SocialDemocrat61]

130. Very true

[Demsrule86]

101. The voucher thing isn't true either you know?

[SocialDemocrat61]

103. Okay

If you say so

[Celerity]

66. I have not used this at all in any of my risk/reward analysis nor have I used or referenced it in any of my DU posts.

I cannot see me changing that. It goes too far afield from my main concerns (ie sources of potential intra-party schisms based off other issues/stances/actions that are more direct and less nebulous).

[SocialDemocrat61]

68. Fair enough

[Demsrule86]

94. PA is not a done deal. I think Shapiro gives us our best chance. And when you have every VP nominee

on the same page about the protests then why go after Shapiro exclusively? The only reason I can see is that he is Jewish.

[Celerity]

108. I have already addressed this problematic attempt to inject a false construct that you keep repeating:

you said:

The only reason I can see is that he is Jewish.

As I already stated in post 42:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219272705#post42

You are continuing to move, with each repetition, towards implying many DU posters are antisemitic (including multiple ones who support Pritzker, who is also Jewish) simply because we have legitimate concerns over a intra-party schism due Shapiro's actions and stances on multiple issues. That is a false construct, and also an offensive one, at least for me (and others who have also taken issue with this template you keep repeating, see below for but one example).

My concerns have zero to due with his being Jewish, zero, (I have no issues with her picking Pritzker for instance, same for the long shots Jamie Raskin, Jon Ossoff, and Jared Polis, all of whom are also Jewish), yet you continue to repeat the same thing, apparently hoping it will stick and paint us as suspect at best, and somehow antisemitic at worst.

I would have the same concerns (minus the pro voucher stances) that I have with Shapiro if she picked Fetterman, who is not Jewish. He would also (probably more than Shapiro tbh) likely cause a schism as well.

I also have concerns with Mark Kelly over his labour/union issues/stances causing a schism (a major union head already has come out against picking him for VP for instance), but given the template you keep trying to employ, that template could also be used/expanded to start to imply that people here expressing concerns about Kelly and labour/unions are secretly against him because his wife is Jewish. In fact I have seen another poster in another thread imply that very thing.

It is a dangerous and slippery slope IMHO, designed to stifle debate and very unfairly stigmatise good faith DUers.

Here is another poster in this very thread taking the same stance on some of this as well:

[Cha]

50. VPs don't set Policy. Besides I think

False information is being spread around about Gov Shapiro.


I’ve been too busy to get the receipts but I plan to.

💙🌊🇺🇸🕯️🕊️🕊️🌈

[Demsrule86]

95. I think it is too.

[Celerity]

24. Yep, that is the new play. Have already seen it being test-bedded in multiple threads. It is offensive to

me (and not just as a person of partial Sephardic Jewish descent (from Portugal via Barbados, on my mum's side). It is an attempt to bully and silence people who express legitimate concerns over his stances and actions (NOT his religion) and their real potential to cause schisms within our base, our Party.

[Mossfern]

34. However

the gist of the OP is that the Pro-Palestinian activists will be a problem for him. Since his stance on Israel is no different than any of the other potential running mates, it appears to be his religion.

[Celerity]

75. His stances/actions are not the same (in re Israel) as most all of the other candidates (including Pritzker, who is also

Jewish). He has went beyond the rest, see post 17 in this thread.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219272705#post17

Also see this for a fuller exploring of the overall risk/reward analysis:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219268284#post36

[debm55]

87. I agree with you 100%, Mossfern.

[Demsrule86]

36. All the potential nominees have the same view.

So why attack Shapiro...and as for his policies...those policies got him elected in PA...a must-win state.

[Celerity]

46. already replied to this, see post 42

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219272705#post42

[SocialDemocrat61]

39. There is also the argument

that he is the only way to win Pennsylvania.

[Celerity]

44. I absolutely do not believe that to be the case. IF that is the case and Harris doesnt pick him as her VP candidate, are

people who are trying to posit that stance then going to then state that PA is now lost?

[SocialDemocrat61]

47. I heard there's a guy Harris worked with for years

who was born in Pennsylvania and could help her there. I think his name is Joe.

[Cosmocat]

57. Meh

I love Joe and I personally don't see him how he is now perceived, but his status is greatly diminished. He was losing PA by increasing margins in polling before stepping down from the nomination. At this point Kamala herself probably has more pull in PA than Joe.

Shapiro is not the only way to win PA, and I think if things keep moving like they are K will win it with or wo him, but PA is pd important and he would likely lick it up as her BP.

But again, she has a lot of good choices, all who have some "negatives." People want to try to throw their weight around and get childish about it, it only hurts K and the country, whether is people in a suit about Shapiro, Kelly, Pete, whoever.

[SocialDemocrat61]

60. Very true

[Demsrule86]

98. My great Grandmother's side of the family were Jewish. She eloped with a Chistian man and came to the US. She was

kicked out of the family...they lived in Germany. this happened in the early 1900's. Well by 1930 Jews were desperate to get out of Germany and my Grandmother tried...but she couldn't...not even the kids. After the war. she sought information about the family and not one person from a large German-Jewish family...was still alive. And this is how it starts by singling out Jews who maybe should not be in government or what have you. Shapiro is a good guy and can deliver PA...his religion should not be an issue period. There has been an increase in antisemitism of late IMHO.

[Celerity]

132. Again you try (I'm starting to lose track of the times) to push this false frame of implied antisemitism upon many DUers

It is not a good look and is only looking worse each time to try and inject it.

You said:

his religion should not be an issue period

We are NOT doing that, not one bit, as I fully showed when I replied to yet another of your multiple false-framing/targeting attempts you keep trying to erect............

here:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219272705#post108

I truly object your continued attempts to falsely imply I and other good faith DUers (including practicing Jews and those of us who are of partial Jewish descent) are somehow involved in going after Shapiro because he is a Jew.

You are trying, over and over, to conflate disagreements over (or in my case specifically, intra-party schism concerns, that could likely hurt our general election chances) his policies, stances and actions on certain issues with some sort of campaign we are waging against him based mainly upon his religion.

That is pure, unadulterated rubbish and does a disservice to all who point out actual antisemitism.

[Demsrule86]

148. Of course his religiion should not be an issue...but when all the others VP candidates share the same views and yet

he is the only Jewish candidate and is singled out...I think his religion is the issue. It is too bad...leaves a bad taste jn my mouth. But you and I can agree to disagree. You will not convince me as I do not support the protestors and think they do more harm than good. Some even carry the Hamas flag. I disagree with Israel as well. But attacking American Jews for what another country is doing is just plain wrong. Have a nice day.

[Celerity]

159. You may think this:

I think his religion is the issue.

Bollocks.

We (myself and the posters I have over and over talked about) do not, and you trying repeatedly to paint us with an implied antisemitic brush is quite frankly, bullshit. It really is an over the top personal attack on many DUers at this point, and your relentless repition of this false frame is out of bounds.

We only are speaking about his actions and stances, and the potential for intra-party schisms and potential depressed votes in a handful of demographic cohorts flowing from those actions and stance.

It has zero to due with his religion, ZERO.

Shameful that you keep trying to target us in such manner.

You are, at this point, basically openly calling us antisemitic or having antisemitic motivations.

You are WAY out over your skis.....

[emulatorloo]

73. You're misinformed about the voucher thing. He is admanent that public school budgets WILL NOT BE IMPACTED

Public schools will receive full funding and not be impacted negatively in any way. That is in no way shape or form a “Republican Policy.”

I have no horse in this race but Shapiro is a fine candidate and he is nothing like a “Republican.”

Thanks and take care.

[Demsrule86]

99. Some of this stuff against Shapiro is made up shit...

[emulatorloo]

117. Yes, indeed it is.

[debm55]

78. He was AG of PA when Trump and his goons tried to take our electorial votes. He stood Trump down. Again Shapiro was

Attorney General of the Commonwealth of PA.

[Demsrule86]

82. We don't get to pick. I will support whoever the VP choice is.

[sarisataka]

26. They aren't too keen on anyone in the current administration

As far as I am aware, none have voiced support for Ms Harris

Abandon Biden Campaign Responds to Biden’s Decision Not to Seek Re-election

The Abandon Biden campaign acknowledges President Joe Biden’s announcement that he will not seek re-election. However, we emphasize that this decision does not absolve him or his party of accountability. The disastrous and criminal approach to Gaza continues under the same personnel: Antony Blinken, Jake Sullivan, and Brett McGurk. These individuals remain in control, perpetuating policies that have led to immense suffering.



It is clear that the DNC machinery pressured Joe Biden to step down only after losing confidence in his ability to lead due to his cognitive decline. This action came not when he was enthusiastically supporting and sponsoring the genocide in Gaza, but when his declining capabilities could no longer be concealed.



With the announcement that Kamala Harris has received Joe Biden’s endorsement to be the Democratic nominee, we invite her to meet with the Abandon Biden campaign. Our demands remain unchanged: call for and pressure an unconditional ceasefire in Gaza. The new candidate must address these critical issues and break from the destructive legacy of the current administration.



The Abandon Biden campaign remains steadfast in our mission to hold those in power accountable who continue to oversee and sponsor Israel’s genocide in Gaza and its belligerence in the region.

https://abandonbiden24.com/abandon-biden-campaign-responds-to-bidens-decision-not-to-seek-re-election/

[Demsrule86]

124. Nina Turner is one of the leaders...you think she or any of her followers will vote for us...not likely.

Me neither...so nothing they say should influence us about Shaprio and PA...I am sure Turner wants Trump to win.

[Think. Again.]

29. Divisive bullshit that should not be amplified here, now.

[JI7]

32. They are anti Jewish and they aren't voting democratic

no matter who is VP.

Many are supporting Trump.

[Demsrule86]

41. That is what I think too.

[PeaceWave]

43. They took the same G word they attached to Biden and stuck it in front of Josh's name. WTF.

[nycbos]

53. Pro-Hamas activists are already triggered by the fact her husband is Jewish

Having a Jewish vice president would just sent them over to the edge. I almost want to see Shapiro on the ticket just for that.

[TheKentuckian]

76. The Hamas fluffers don't want anyone on the ballot.

They are Chump/Putin/Sinwar all the way no matter who is nominated.

[Behind the Aegis]

112. LOL!

I am so glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read your comment.

[alarimer]

105. Sleazy innuendo

I am personally against the bombing of schools and hospitals. Anybody who does that is a war criminal by definition.

[Mossfern]

107. Hamas

has bombed schools, and mostly targets civilians....
or have you forgotten?

[AloeVera]

114. Well, that's pretty infuriating.. and wrong.

Let's look at a scenario where Hamas bombed or damaged more than 80% of Israel's schools, killed thousands of Israeli students, controlled-demolition destroyed every single university in Israel, killed hundreds of Israel's leading academics, scientists, deans, researchers...

First, imagine the outrage and retribution!! Gaza would be dust in hours.

Second, even if this far-fetched and impossible scenario were true, even then, what Israel has done to Gaza would still be horribly, heinously wrong.

[Demsrule86]

120. And we are supposed to stop that how?

[AloeVera]

126. I'm pretty sure you know the answer.

The U.S. is not without agency or leverage.

We in the West need to put our money where our mouth is. No exceptions, even for an ally.

Do I know that's unrealistic and unlikely to happen? Of course. But that doesn't mean I'm going to stop calling for it.

[Demsrule86]

131. It is extremely unrealistic and can't happen.

Netanyahu has to go. But what are we supposed to do abandon the Israelis people and let them be slaughtered? We are in a no win situation. I hope after the election when we win and Netanyahu realizes he won't have his buddy Trump who wants to toss out Palestinians in GAZA and build big hotels...he may be ousted or come to his senses.

[AloeVera]

143. We shouldn't let any people be slaughtered, with our weapons or not.

Netanyahu is not an aberration, and that in a nutshell is the problem. Getting rid of him won't change a popular policy.

Palestinians don't have the luxury of waiting till the election and I doubt that they worry about Kushner and his condos at this point in their mass destruction.

To prevent the slaughter of Israelis, don't allow Israel to slaughter more of its neighbours. It should be self-evident the cycle needs to stop.

[voris820]

110. She has to pick Shapiro now.....

or it makes it look like she's controlled by the left and that plays right into one of the Trump campaigns main criticisms of her.

Picking Shapiro I think could win her the election because it would be a signal to swing voters and independents that she will govern as a moderate and not "a "San Francisco Liberal".

[Celerity]

133. no, no she does not, and nice RW talking points you are employing

it makes it look like she's controlled by the left

she will govern as a moderate and not "a "San Francisco Liberal".

[Mossfern]

134. It's not only the Pro-Palestinian extremists that would not like to see

a Jewish Vice President. There are more on the right who have an issue with "Jews."
This is disconcerting. What year is this again?

[Cha]

141. Be careful what they wish for... Bibi wants TSF

and lookout what they would do to Gaza.

[Nanjeanne]

144. Well it is true many on the Right certainly didn't want Jewish Bernie Sanders as President

However many on left certainly did and probably some of those pro Palestinian protesters were among them.

[Mossfern]

152. No doubt

Bernie has been vocal about the right wing and Netanyahu and actions of Israel that he abhors.
I would guess that Pro-Palestinians would heartily endorse him..... but he's not a contender for VP right now.

[Nanjeanne]

153. Sadly. But as a Pro-Palestinian Jew - I'd support him and Pritzker, Raskin, and any number of Jewish politicians

who aren't for school vouchers, don't liken protestors to KKK, don't support corporate tax cuts, etc.

But Kamala isn't asking my opinion. There's no doubt I will vote for her. I've never voted for anyone other than a Dem. But door knocking, enthusiasm, phone banking, showing up -- it's possible her VP pick will affect that. Don't know. But do know my enthusiasm depends on the platform, the policies, etc. If I hear her go back to her original stand supporting Medicare4All - my enthusiasm will jump sky high even with Shapiro as her VP pick.

[Demsrule86]

149. Of course she should pick Shapiro...he can deliver all important Pennsylvania...not other choice can do that.

[Sky Jewels]

145. "motley" -- GFY NYT

I hate this sneering, lying rag more and more.

[Zeitghost]

155. The Antisemites and their protests

Are being hung around the necks of "the left" and therefore the Democratic Party and it's presidential ticket. Nominating a pro-Israel Jew as VP will go a long way in combating that.

The "Genocide Joe" crowd will never vote for us either way, at least with Shapiro we have good chance of pulling in moderate swing voters, especially in PA.

[EllieBC]

158. So shocking. So so so very shocking. Antisemites

never rest. They dress up their hatred for Jews with a new name every so many decades and it would be nice if people stopped falling for it.

Anyway most of them probably aren’t voting or “voting their conscience” so I’m not sure I care about their opinions. They can keep masturbating to their Jew hate all the want.