General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsShermann
(9,050 posts)Response to Shermann (Reply #1)
True Dough This message was self-deleted by its author.
kcr
(15,522 posts)to know how to manage with a smaller budget. But then I'd take just about anyone's advice over Dave Ramsey.
Shermann
(9,050 posts)Anybody who offers financial advice seems to draw a lot of incoming fire for whatever reason.
angrychair
(12,178 posts)Between when a millionaire files for bankruptcy and someone like me files for bankruptcy.
They file they are likely still millionaires when it done.
When I filled, I manged to narrowly avoid being homeless and still had my $900 a month student loan payment I still couldn't afford.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)He became a millionaire because of the failure he said it presented to himself and family. He decided hed never get in that situation again. Smart brilliant guy.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)They buy their clothes at thrift shops, buy food at Aldis, go on cruises and get the inside rooms. There are ways to save money for everyone. Not every millionaire is evil. Some are just thrifty.
Shermann
(9,050 posts)If you were a millionaire in the 70's, you were somebody!
In the 2020's, you're probably comfortable but may not be jet-setting quite as much.
Multi-millionaires are the new millionaires.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)ProfessorGAC
(76,528 posts)My wife & I are millionaires. A Ferrari is not in the works.
We live comfortably off the yearly earnings, but there's no trip to the French Riviera planned.
It means comfortable, not rich.
Turbineguy
(39,985 posts)He shops for clothes at Ross Dress for Less. I go to Brooks Bros. and Nordstrom.
He has a reputation of a cheapskate, but he's actually quite generous.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)newdayneeded
(2,493 posts)trickle down their money.
doc03
(39,035 posts)million gets his hair cut at the barber school for free. I know another that took his son and wife out for lunch at the soup kitchen. Him and his wife would go to Hallmark and pick out cards for each other during holidays, birthdays and Valentines day read them and put them back on the shelf.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)The barber shop school for sure and reading the card. Most throw those away after spending 7 bucks. The soup kitchen is pushing it. lol.
doc03
(39,035 posts)they serve anyone.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)AloeVera
(4,200 posts)I find it a bit selfish. Reverse Robin Hood-like. I guess micro-cosm of capitalism.
True Dough
(26,428 posts)but I do buzz my own hair every five weeks or so with a $80 set of clippers that I purchased almost three years ago. I would never have dreamed such a thing in my vanity-filled 20s or 30s when I had a full head of hair, but now that I'm in my 50s and my hair is thinning, I'm not worried about messing it up. If it goes awry, I'll just shave it down to nothing (that's happened once so far).
dpibel
(3,887 posts)Not mutually exclusive.
And you know multiple millionaires? Do tell!
doc03
(39,035 posts)to remember the Beverly Hillbillies there are many like the Clampets that cashed in on the natural gas boom around here.
That is one of the reasons this area has turned so red.
yardwork
(69,267 posts)He tells people to get out of debt by reducing their spending. His message is that people overspend because they're drawn to status symbols like expensive cars and big houses. He encourages people to live beneath their means, not above their means.
I don't appreciate his homophobia but I think his advice makes sense on a basic level. Americans are always encouraged to spend on luxury and status, and Ramsey's point is that way leads to ruin. Instead, he encourages spiritual growth and simple living. It's a very old philosophy that has stood the test of time because it works.
But I guess when it reaches the point of cutting back on groceries in a country with such great wealth disparity, that cuts a little too deep.
yardwork
(69,267 posts)I've seen his call-in show a few times. He encourages people to stop eating in restaurants and cook inexpensive food at home. He's not saying to starve; just eat rice and beans instead of steak.
It's true that it's easy to overspend at the grocery store. There are prepared food items and other choices that can quickly add up.
His advice is aimed at people who have gotten themselves into shocking debt. People in their late 20s call in and they've managed to rack up a million dollars in debt, including hundreds of thousands in credit card debt.
Wednesdays
(22,419 posts)Just cut back on the number of times you eat steak. And don't buy that shiny new luxury car when an "ugly car" will still get you to work.
We took his course, and much of it is sound advice. One of his favorite sayings: "If your outgo exceeds your income, your upkeep will be your downfall."
moonscape
(5,693 posts)to eat whats in the frig vs something else Im more in the mood for. I toss too much food.
Xavier Breath
(6,620 posts)And I'll justify ignoring perfectly good food in my fridge by saying something to the effect of 'Well, it's Saturday night, so I deserve to have that pizza.' I really need to reign that in.
True Dough
(26,428 posts)it happens to be Saturday!

Xavier Breath
(6,620 posts)I'm surrendering early today.
True Dough
(26,428 posts)Food of the gods (at least the Roman ones).
Zoomie1986
(1,213 posts)My husband had a bowel resection that makes beans impossible for him to eat without suffering extreme abdominal pain, and I have diabetes, so rice is off the menu for me.
I know it shocks the vegan/vegetarian crowd to hear about reality, but some of us can't do either diet for complex reasons.
Fun fact: If you eat at home rather than going out, you can afford steak every now and then.
yardwork
(69,267 posts)We just try to spend inside our means. We don't go on vacation unless we can afford to pay for it. We choose debt carefully - house mortgage, reasonably priced cars - but we pay off our credit cards each month. There isn't a one size fits all. Some people are genuinely poor and live paycheck to paycheck. It's not their fault.
This self-help guy talks to people who have decent incomes but ran up astronomical debts.
Tadpole Raisin
(1,977 posts)car will be for you even though it is more than you can afford.
How can we help you to close this deal?
Dont show me a car that is thousands more than my budget and try to placate me by offering a 6 year repayment plan instead of 4 yrs.
I truly despise car salesmen.
lastlib
(28,097 posts)The secret is simple: extra payment on principal. Early in the term of the loan, you're making smaller payments on principal. With a spreadsheet or a good calculator, it's easy to figure the principal due each month. Combine multiple principal amounts into one payment, plus the interest due, and you can significantly reduce the amount of interest you pay over the course of the loan, and pay the thing off early. Money in your pocket.
Tadpole Raisin
(1,977 posts)they purchased a car too costly for a pay down option, they just really want that vehicle, they cant turn the tables on the dealership. And god help them if they get into a wreck that costs so much to repair that they are forking out big bucks and are still required to pay the 2 years left they have on the loan. People often think if that happens they no longer have to make car payments. Sadly enough Ive seen that and people get very angry they are still stuck with the car loan.
I know there is insurance you can get for that but the point is for those who cant really afford the car in the first place, they can't use these strategies.
tinrobot
(12,043 posts)He's very black and white. He basically says ALL debt is bad. That might be a good message for his audience, who are usually stuck in a spiral of poor spending decisions and credit card debt. But the reality of debt is much more nuanced. Debt is not always bad, you can use it to your advantage.
For example, my car loan is at 1%. I have enough cash to pay it off. But that money is earning 5% in a high yield savings account, so paying off a 1% loan early would actually lose money.
Ramsey would tell me to pay off the loan no matter what the interest rates are. I suspect it's because saying otherwise would confuse his audience.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)Problem is the vast majority would take the one percent and spend the other money on junk over time.
True Dough
(26,428 posts)And this is why people should seek advice from many sources rather than have a go-to financial "guru."
NJCher
(43,017 posts)Just get the car for free. I got mine free and the person who is sitting across the way from me also got one for free.
Both are really nice cars, too!
As a matter of fact, I don't pay for many things. I just think about what I want and it shows up.
The most recent example is I was going to buy a camping chair for my brother. The one he liked was $189. I had the order in place online but that night when I came home, I saw the same chair in the shipping box with the tags still on it. It was placed at the trash. I pulled it out of the box and saw it was brand new and unused. Later I inspected it more carefully and saw one bracket was bent, but it did not affect the safety or folding of the chair. The bracket was actually a safety measure, so I might put a cable tie on it, but I don't think it really needs it.
I suspect the person who put the chair out for the trash got a new one from the seller and was told not to ship the bent bracket one back.
My brother said he didn't want the chair because it was too heavy for his camping traveler. So I kept it for myself.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)Probably saved my financial life many times over. Hes a financial genius. As far as personal life, he may suck. I dont know, and do not desire to be his friend.
Shermann
(9,050 posts)I started watching him a few years ago but was already to Step 7.
It's a pretty solid framework. If any rock-throwers can pull all their counter-messaging together into a complete comprehensive strategy I'd like to hear it.
*chirp chirp*
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)Do people not understand how horrible life is living in the land of debt? Its not fun. Anybody out to help should be applauded.
edisdead
(3,396 posts)For many Americans they cant cut back because they are already food insecure and in danger of homelessness. For every success story out there unfortunately there are other realities that make it so much more difficult for them.
Just do this one easy trick is a load of shit and gets us to take our eye off the ball of what actually needs doing in this world.
Deek1935
(1,055 posts)comparing per-unit prices, looking for things on sale, maybe buying some things in bulk, and yes, maybe cutting down on junk food which isn't healthy and adds to costs in a big way.
I do many of these things myself, especially really looking for better per-unit costs and buying the generic brands for many things. The generics are mostly just as good and cost a lot less.
Hugin
(37,801 posts)With respect to per-unit-pricing. Which, stores are required to display.
Thats also how the stores manage their inventory. So, why dont we?
Granted, its usually quite cryptic. But, once youve figured out the system, its well worth the investment of time. Were talking tens and hundreds of dollars here, folks.
You enter a different reality where the giant size costs way more than the humble large, nine rolls of paper products cost the same as twelve, and eye drops are liquid gold. They should try it, its amazing.
Whats the difference, some may ask. Its all in packaging, branding, placement, and marketing. Those are the premiums one is paying for if one neglects to check the per-unit-price.
ProfessorGAC
(76,528 posts)In fact, I was doing it before the stores were required to list it, because I can do pretty sophisticated math in my head.
It's just faster & easier when it's right there on the tag.
Hugin
(37,801 posts)Looking at the contents of the the products being compared. Spices, for instance, are expensive and leaving them out, the products appear the same but the profits and how they taste are different.
I consider this trick particularly contemptuous and I will avoid the parent companys products as a whole when I have seen it.
ProfessorGAC
(76,528 posts)I'm willfully heavy-handed with seasoning, so I go through a lot of spices & herbs.
Fortunately, the big supermarket in our town (regional chain) has their own store brand of spices.
They're quite good, come in big jars, & and way cheaper than the national brand.
seleff
(173 posts)My wife has always chided me for this, but everywhere we've lived I've sought out independent grocery markets, often specializing in international foods, to save a lot on food. In Atlanta, it was the DeKalb International Farmers market. Meat, seafood, produce and bulk staples were easily only 2/3 of Supermarket prices: in Seattle, it was the local Asian markets and filling in at supermarkets, where what's for dinner was what's on sale that week. Now retired in SoCal, I've found an international market, Valley Marketplace, that has produce often 1/4 to 1/2 the price of chain supermarkets. Same for meats/seafood and Deli. Most of the shoppers are from Hispanic, Middle Eastern, Eastern European, and South and SE Asian heritage as there are sections for each of these communities. Problem is there are only 3 stores, closest is a trek of 25-30 minutes' drive. So I generally shop for a whole week when I go, but filling a large cart usually costs no more than $150-175. Trips to local supermarkets or Trader Joe's heavily favors what's on sale that week.I haven't really felt the inflation on groceries since the pandemic much. It's amazing to me to see those that flock to the ultra expensive boutique food stores here in Calabasas that feature the Justin Bieber smoothie for $20-25 and prepped food entrees for $20-30/lb. They can't all be from celebrity multi-millionaire families, and I'm pretty sure many/most have service jobs making $20-25/hr🤷🏻♂️
Dulcinea
(10,012 posts)I live only a few miles from there. The prices for produce especially are the best in the area.
Tadpole Raisin
(1,977 posts)If money isnt tight but you want to save more you probably havent.
Buying too much deli meat and needing to throw it out when it goes bad. Same with fruit (e.g., bananas if you dont make banana bread).
Making a meal and refrigerating the leftovers that end up in the back of the fridge and thrown away a month later because you dont want to eat the same thing 2 days in a row and then forget about it.
Impulse buys or not figuring out price per ounce and paying more than you need to.
There are lots of other food savings. I am not a Ramsey fan (not a hater either) but he is right. Some people throw away 30-40% of their spent food money. I figured it out from necessity but was shocked at my waste.
My 2 cents anyway
flame away.
yardwork
(69,267 posts)Listening to his call in show, I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
marble falls
(71,724 posts)usonian
(24,841 posts)Invest wisely, spend moderately
WITH OTHER PEOPLE'S MONEY
a.k.a. OPM ®️ Gates, Trump, Bezos, Musk, Zuckerberg, Knight, Walton, Kardashian
ESPECIALLY, your rich parents.
Did you really think you could work your way to wealth from scratch?
https://www.gobankingrates.com/money/wealth/millionaires-billionaires-who-actually-started-out-rich
"Did you really think you could work your way to wealth from scratch?"
Yes. My parents were low income, food stamps, food pantry, government cheese(loved it!), welfare. That's where I started. Through 35 years of working, planning, saving, investing, budgeting I own property(s), am a part owner of a startup Tech company, and am in a higher tax bracket than I like. And I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.
So yes. You can work your way to wealth from scratch. It's not easy, it's not quick, and just how far you get certainly varies. When you convince yourself you can't, then you won't. It's sad to see that mentality that holds so many back.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)It does take work and dedication. You cant give up. Most think its too hard and step away. Life is not easy, but if you do the best you can, you can have a pretty decent financial life. Hard work is key.
Pinback
(13,580 posts)Certainly, hard work gets you income, but there are plenty of people who spend it all and then some. Only by saving religiously and investing prudently can most people get ahead, even with modest resources.
Easier said than done, especially when you have other mouths to feed and a meager paycheck, but staying out of high-cost debt and exercising discipline in saving will go a long way toward getting rich slowly.
Sorry, I went into Dad Mode there, replaying one of the tapes in frequent rotation with my kids!
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)newdayneeded
(2,493 posts)I listened to his show a few years ago, this woman called in and said they make 150k between the two of them, 200k mortgage, and 1 in college, 1 starting. his advise was that they should pay their house off in 2 years. She has and audible gasp on the phone. lol. Multi Millionaire telling regular folk how to make Millionaire type payments. these people have other bills, plus kids college expenses. I just shook my head at his callous advise.
Wednesdays
(22,419 posts)If they have kids in college, odds are they've had that house for twenty years or more, and that it's nearly paid off anyway.
newdayneeded
(2,493 posts)Just not possible in 2 years, with other bills to pay, car insurance, taxes, food, elect, kids college allowance, maybe car payment, etc.
newdayneeded
(2,493 posts)A $9000+ monthly house payment when taxes and interest are added.
Then add in 3 grand in normal living expenses?
Like I said it was callous advice.
tinrobot
(12,043 posts)If your mortgage has a low interest rate, paying it off is often not the best choice.
That $200k could easily make more in the market or even a savings account.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)clean up their finances. Once thats done, then help the kids if desired.
Buns_of_Fire
(19,110 posts)See how easy it is?
Hugin
(37,801 posts)Like that, no more docking and storage fees. With the money I have saved, I am looking at picking up a sea or ocean.
Shermann
(9,050 posts)I just have to budget around getting there and back.
Pinback
(13,580 posts)
Only $90k! Maybe a fun birthday present for Junior?
https://www.hammacher.com/product/killer-whale-submarine?promo=as_sp_pos_2&uxd_req_id=3c20f221-334a-4433-ab05-cabff5cb72ec
Hugin
(37,801 posts)I'll get three. Do they come in a shark motif?
True Dough
(26,428 posts)to work in your vineyard or your Mercedes dealership.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,845 posts)NameAlreadyTaken
(2,293 posts)Aristus
(72,069 posts)could benefit from higher pay! That would bring the whole world crashing down around us!
Pay the people who are doing the actual work just enough so that technically its not slavery, then offer insulting advice on how to budget their nearly non-existent income!
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)the last three years. Id say they should save some of it.
True Dough
(26,428 posts)We need systemic change!
Keepthesoulalive
(2,245 posts)What about car insurance, house insurance , medical bills, taxes and unforeseen bills .
A sick pet can set you back thousands. Eating less will not mitigate the billionaires that are sucking us dry.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)But you dont throw out responsibility on the masses because some have a situation that comes up. What if they had saved the last years and a medical issue came up? Theyd have the money to take care of it. Also, its recommended to have a six month emergency fund. That at least needs done. It would help people so much.
Keepthesoulalive
(2,245 posts)A drug to reduce testosterone costs 30,000 dollars. People in Florida are being charged thousands of dollars for junk insurance to cover their houses . Rent for apartments is insane and dont get me started on college expenses. Cancer treatments can cost millions. Put the blame where it belongs.
Billionaires are not earning their money they are buying politicians and extorting the rest of us.
True Dough
(26,428 posts)Costs in the U.S. are absolutely outrageous compared to almost anywhere else in the world.
JanMichael
(25,725 posts)One says in authoritative ways just spend less. The other repackages trite sayings and his fallback is "why". Also drags on young people for LinkedIn likes.
Both are bordering on being bargain box cult leaders.
Phht.
jalan48
(14,914 posts)jimfields33
(19,382 posts)Dont have to take the advice. If they like the way they are living, ignore it. Clearly the ones who listen at least want to try to change their financial life. Its stunning youd be against this. When you go to a doctor, do you not take his advice? Wouldnt taking advice from someone who achieved be a smart thing? You do know Dave Ramsey started off dirt poor. He learned a strategy that works!
jalan48
(14,914 posts)Silent Type
(12,412 posts)Fortunately, that no longer happens much. But I spent many a night on deserted country roads listening to him or some small town Christian station.
NickB79
(20,307 posts)I normally hate Ramsey, but in this case he's right.
I have coworkers that easily spend $1000/mo or more on their family of 3-4, while my wife, daughter and I get by on half that. They eat out almost every night, they buy prepackaged frozen foods, and at work they eat out of the overpriced vending machine. Whereas my wife and I reserve eating out for weekends as a family activity or when we're really burnt out, we cook homemade meals most nights, and we cook enough so that we can bring leftovers to work the next day. I don't think I've spent more than $20 in ingredients on a dinner yet, and I make enough for at least 5-6 large servings. And when we do eat out, we don't hit the high-end restaurants. I'm not spending $50 for a steak!
You also have to be flexible in your food choices. Beef's expensive, but pork's on sale? Pork chop night. Beans, rice, eggs and lentils are your best friend, and your healthiest. A few dollars worth of spices can completely transform a dish. Pressed for time? A crockpot is a godsend; fire it up and leave it on the counter all day while you're at work. If you have even a 10x10 plot of ground and can put down your phone or turn off the TV for an hour or two, that's enough to grow a vegetable garden which is both economical and so very healthy for you. The Dollar Tree near me even sells basic seed packets every spring, 4/$1 that are surprisingly good. If you know how to save your seeds in the fall, you might never have to buy seeds again. If you have the space, plant a fruit tree. I have multiple apples, plums, peaches, persimmons, pawpaws, mulberries, cherries, pears, chestnuts, walnuts, currants, and apricots on 1.5 acres. I know it isn't feasible for most people, but I have a flock of chickens that gives me 5-6 eggs per day, I can feed them any food waste from the kitchen to save on feed costs, and they roam my yard eating bugs and worms. In the fall, I use their manure to fertilize my garden for spring planting.
If you can find a basic chest freezer on sale, and have the cash, buy it. My wife and I bought one when we lived in an apartment, and filled it up every time we could. We'd look for meat on clearance that had to be sold cheap before being thrown away and freeze it so it wouldn't go bad. I still remember the time we got 50 lb of chicken breasts at Sam's Club for $1/lb, when they were normally $2.50/lb, and $0.99/lb pork chops.
So yeah, I'm saving thousands a year by just paying attention to my grocery bills, AND my health is better now in my 40's than it was in my 20's, thanks in part to a diet higher in real food, fresher vegetables, and lower in salt and preservatives. I truly believe I'm saving thousands a year on medical bills as well, thanks to my diet.
Wingus Dingus
(9,173 posts)A lot of what he says is just common sense. I am blowing a lot of money on takeout/fast food/convenience meals because I'm going through a very busy chaotic time in life at the moment and do not have the ability to cook much or plan grocery trips.
jg10003
(1,057 posts)They shopped at the dollar store, lived in a nice house but not a mansion, and drove a Ford. No flashly jewelry, no yachts, no conspicuous display of wealth. They did donate a lot to the synagogue and other charities. I would listen to their financial advice.
LudwigPastorius
(14,598 posts)Only buy your kid a new phone every other year!
Fly business, instead of first, class every once in a while!
MissB
(16,344 posts)Im surrounded by neighbors that dont cook. They have incredible kitchens and dont cook.
I hate grocery shopping in general, so I tend to do my weekly grocery run at 6 am. When returning to the neighborhood, I nearly always see at least one Uber eats delivery driver heading out of the neighborhood. Absolute insanity.
But they can afford it and I cant. I mean, I suppose I could, frankly, but I see my grocery budget as something to minimize and not maximize. I prefer to have extra spending money or extra savings.
Anyway, I have time and generally energy to cook from scratch. Yesterdays lunch was Lemon Rosemary White Bean toasts with some leftover Dan Dan salad and some cherries. I had no bread in the house and I really like the white bean spread (topped within sautéed mushrooms by the way) on English muffins. So in between work yesterday morning, i minded a batch of dough that Id started after breakfast, eventually making a batch of 10 English muffins. The white beans were soaked from dry beans earlier in the week and cooked in my Instant pot, used some in the Dan Dan salad and some for the white bean spread.
Dinner last night was an chicken enchilada casserole. I couldve made the corn tortillas from scratch but I had a packet in the fridge already. I grabbed a jar of boneless canned chicken breasts (canned when they hit $1/lb) and made the casserole. Served with some roasted squash.
This morning Im having an English muffin with peanut butter and some watermelon, lunch will be leftovers of some sort and dinner will be some broccoli beef and rice with a side of fruit (main dish made in the instant pot of course.) I could just go get some Chinese takeout but this is cheaper and moderately healthier.
Tomorrows dinner will be some bbq drumsticks (bought when they were .89/lb and frozen in meal sized packages) with homemade bbq sauce and a lovely zucchini tart (includes some Gruyère and tomato pesto on a puff pastry sheet) and likely some corn.
I meal plan, buy stuff when its on sale and cook from scratch as much as I can. Its cheaper to cook beans from dried beans vs a can of beans etc.
Folks dont cook as much as they used to.
Shermann
(9,050 posts)If your food budget is too high, it's probably better to focus on restaurant spending.
I am a fan of those grab-and-go deli items at the grocery which can be spendy. They just save time and energy. However, when I buy a lot of ingredients and cook a lot, I end up throwing more food away. So, I may not even save all that much doing that.
OnDoutside
(20,868 posts)I don't mind spending money on myself because I'm well worth it !
Case in point, I'm thinking of visiting relatives in Australia next summer but the problem is that while it is medically a good idea for me to travel in business, my wife and son insist that they travel the same. Such selfishness is unbelievable, isn't it? It may end up making me travel in coach
Voltaire2
(15,377 posts)And now Im a billionaire.
Actually Im not, and i stopped because avocados are now an environmental disaster and part of the cartel economy of Mexico.
SupportSanity
(1,579 posts)https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143284046
