Shapiro seeks to downplay his time as IDF volunteer after college op-ed resurfaces

[onandup]

While Shapiro’s Jewish roots are well established — including his enrollment at the Akiba Hebrew Academy in Philadelphia — the op-ed from his time at the University of Rochester appeared to be the first revelation of such direct ties to the IDF.

“Palestinians will not coexist peacefully,” Shapiro also wrote in the op-ed titled “Peace Not Possible.”

“They do not have the capabilities to establish their own homeland and make it successful even with the aid of Israel and the United States. They are too battle-minded to be able to establish a peaceful homeland of their own,” added the then-20-year-old student.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/shapiro-seeks-to-downplay-his-time-as-idf-volunteer-after-college-op-ed-resurfaces/

[Think. Again.]

1. Wasn't that like 30 years ago when he just got out of high school?

Why is this a thing?

[BeyondGeography]

6. You mean same age as those student protesters he seems not to think highly of?

[Think. Again.]

7. Those students are acting currently....

...why would anyone care what Shapiro did or said 30 years ago?

[jimfields33]

27. Everything is free game in politics.

When you are in a political position whether Supreme Court, Vice President, or mayor, everything you do is up for review regardless of time passed.

[Think. Again.]

44. Yes, and it's expected from the opposing party...

My question is why would Dems raise issues from the past that can only cause division and reduce votes for the Democratic ticket?

[jimfields33]

76. I missed it was the democratic supporters doing it.

That’s pretty nasty.

[Think. Again.]

82. Are you saying you didn't read this threads OP here on DU????

Besides, we all know that NOW, not 30 years ago, but now, Shapiro's position on the Middle East is the same as every other VP candidate's position is, FOR a two-state solution.

[jimfields33]

99. I typically do. I'm slipping.

[Think. Again.]

114. It turns out even the voucher B.S. is a rightwing lie.

[DiamondShark]

126. Ya think?

It's as if there is a giant Russian disinformation conspiracy and some are falling for it hook, line, and sinker.

[marybourg]

11. Are we going to hold it against them for 30 years?

I don’t think so.

[JCMach1]

84. Because these are legit questions, around the same time he wrote this

I was busy questioning JEB Bush and his dad's connections to Central American war criminals and crimes.

Truncated vetting means he needs to answer nuanced questions like this one pretty quickly and efficiently...

[Think. Again.]

87. But wouldn't his answer be obvious....

"That was 30 years ago when I was just out of high school, today, my position on the Middle East is the same as every other VP candidate, I'm for a two state solution"

So my question still stands, why would we here on DU be amplifying this rightwing talking point meant to stir division?

[JCMach1]

98. You really don't get what the right wing noise machine is?

Right?

You think a few of us are asking questions?

Just wait if he gets the nomination...

This kind of stuff normally makes the vetting process. Also worries me what we have about some of the other candidates since the vetting period has been way too quick.

[Think. Again.]

109. I thought I was being clear....

My concern is that WE are being the rightwing noise machine by asking nonsensical questions that are not about actual issues and only serve to discourage votes for our candidates.

[JCMach1]

121. Just going to leave it there...

[LAS14]

119. DU is a discussion site. Why is it "amplifying" to bring up a discussable topic?

Without this thread I might have ended up thinking Shapiro joined the IDF as a youth. Discussion is good, not bad.

[Think. Again.]

120. Without some threads on DU, I wouldn't have heard the LIE that Shapiro joined the IDF as a youth.

[LAS14]

122. And you wouldn't have known what to say when you heard it elsewhere.

That is, IF you attend to other outlets as well as DU.

[Think. Again.]

123. A rightwing lie would not have been a discussion in the other outlets I attend.

[womanofthehills]

136. The quote will be used like he said it yesterday

Used over and over. When he said it will not be mentioned by Republicans.

[emulatorloo]

2. Shapiro is calling for an immediate two state solution and has harshly criticized Netanyahu

“I personally believe Benjamin Netanyahu is one of the worst leaders of all time,” Shapiro told reporters in January, months before Democratic Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer called for the Israeli leader to resign. At the time, Shapiro also pressed for an “immediate two-state solution,” something Netanyahu and his hard-right government stridently oppose. The anti-Shapiro campaign ignores these remarks but makes much of the governor’s comparison of campus Gaza protesters to “people dressed up in KKK outfits.” When he said that in an interview, however, Shapiro was distinguishing between bigoted extremists—such as the Columbia campus-protest leader who called for killing “Zionists”—and peaceful demonstrators, about whom the governor has said, “It’s right for young people to righteously protest and question.”

From:

Who’s Afraid of Josh Shapiro?
The Pennsylvania governor called Benjamin Netanyahu “one of the worst leaders of all time.” But anti-Israel activists don’t want him on the Democratic ticket.

By Yair Rosenberg

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/07/josh-shapiro-netanyahu-jewish-vp/679300/
https://archive.is/XQXcM

[JCMach1]

3. It is a big deal that a candidate would have been a member

Of a foreign military service.

I don't care which country.

That's a deal breaker for me at the Presidential level.

Of course, I will support the nominees, but the IDF thing is a significant issue.

[Think. Again.]

8. 30 years ago.

[JCMach1]

10. Let me just frame it. I was offered a chance to train. With the Sandinistas

One summer in the 1980's, but even though I was a empathizing lefty, I didn't do it...

It's a big decision for which I made a very different one.

[marybourg]

14. Israel is not, and never was the Sandinistas.

[emulatorloo]

60. Let me just frame it for you. SHAPIRO WAS NOT IN THE FUCKING IDF and DID NOT "swear allegiance"

“While he was in high school, Josh Shapiro was required to do a service project, which he and several classmates completed through a program that took them to a kibbutz in Israel where he worked on a farm and at a fishery,” Shapiro’s spokesperson Manuel Bonder told The Times of Israel.

“The program also included volunteering on service projects on an Israeli army base. At no time was he engaged in any military activities,” Bonder added in a statement responding to an inquiry regarding the nature of his volunteer work.

He was a high school kid on a trip to Israel. He did some volunteer work in Israel

GET IT NOW? HE WAS NEVER IN THE IDF.

Please self-delete and stick with the facts rather than assumptions.

[JCMach1]

78. He stated it as volunteer work for IDF...

Just paraphrasing Shapiro.

And it's not necessarily a 'problem'. What becomes a problem is people much less easy going than me and way farther to the right will raise the same, or worse questions.

Complicated and nuanced answers are a fail in the political game.

And please note, because of truncated vetting this will likely not be the only info. dump dropped on one of the possible candidates in the next 36hr. or so

[emulatorloo]

85. There's nothing complex or nuanced about it. He was on a highschool volunteer trip, on a farm, a fishery,

and a military base.

You claimed he served in the IDF and insinuated he trained with the IDF AND swore allegiance to a foreign military. None of that is factual or correct.

[iemanja]

96. Seems like there is a lot of crap going around

About Shapiro. It almost makes me wish Harris would pick him. In fact, I don’t think he’d be a bad choice.

ETA: I meant to reply to the OP but can’t figure out how to self delete on my phone.

[Zeitghost]

12. Oh Please

He wasn't a member of a foreign military. He took part in a program living on a kibbutz that did some volunteer work on an IDF facility.

[JohnSJ]

93. Bernie Sanders was also a member of a kibbutz

[marybourg]

13. He was not a member of a foreign military service.

He did SERVICE projects on the base as part of a required i tership type progeam.

[emulatorloo]

62. ++++++++

This thread is absolutely insane.

[TheKentuckian]

131. More profoundly dishonest than insane.

[jg10003]

19. he was never part of the IDF. As a high school project

He did some type of volunteer work for the IDF. He probably passed out doughnuts, read to hospital patients, etc.

[madaboutharry]

23. He was not a member of a foreign military service.

You formed that conclusion without reading the article, because if you had read the article you wouldn’t have jumped to that conclusion.

[madaboutharry]

28. There is nothing to defend.

There is nothing to be shocked about. Thousands of Jewish high school and college kids go to Israel every year to do service work in Israel. They go to kibbutzim, hospitals, nursing homes, and army bases.

You are making this something it is not.

He wasn’t in the army. JFC.

[madaboutharry]

42. He volunteered to do service work.

He did not to volunteer to be nor was he a soldier in the IDF.

Sorry if the facts don’t do what you want them to do.

[questionseverything]

68. i am just relaying his words

Mr. Shapiro, who was 20 at the time, noted in his essay that he had spent five months studying in Israel and had volunteered in the Israeli Army.

“The only way the ‘peace plan’ will be successful is if the Palestinians do not ruin it,” Mr. Shapiro wrote, adding, “Palestinians will not coexist peacefully.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/02/us/politics/josh-shapiro-palestinians-college.html

[DiamondShark]

127. Hang on, hang on, let's see if I understand this correctly.

Does Shapiro think it takes all parties to create peace?

If so, mind blown. He get my +1.

[lapucelle]

83. I googled and there there are no links that support that claim.

[Nanjeanne]

100. If you click on the link in the tweet below you will see the full newspaper page and can read the whole thing

He wrote

Link to tweet

?s=61&t=_R0eaN5XDTx3hnl2jyXBTA]

[lapucelle]

106. Citing one instance consisting of one sentence from something written 30 years ago

does not support the assertion that "for 30 years he has claimed he volunteered for Israel's army".

------------------------------------

I have read the student essay and have posted about it (with links) several times today.

From the primary source (the actual essay):





==============================

Cautionary note: Seek out and use primary sources whenever possible. And it might be wise to avoid relying on foreign social media accounts as news sources, especially when subsequent tweets from the same account ask questions like "Is Biden lying or just incompetent?"

NB: The italicized blurb after the conclusion of the essay is a biographical addendum written by an editor. It is not part of the op-ed.

Shapiro's student essay (primary source):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i3VqES9WPttyAbv666GXWcaJDgIJ9QWp/view

[Nanjeanne]

115. I never said 30 years. I cited what he said. So he said he served. You always want more but i

Have nothing more to tell you other than what he said himself.

[lapucelle]

116. You responded to me in a subthread. I was responding to to the ridiculous claim

that saying something one time 30 years ago is the same as saying something for the past 30 years. That untrue claim has since been deleted.

And you didn't cite what Governor Shapiro said. You instructed me to click on a link to a foreign twitter account that posts things like

President Biden is either "incompetent or lying".

That foreign twitter account linked to Josh Shapiro's 30 year old essay, not to information supporting the assertion that Josh Shapiro has been saying something for 30 years.

=========================================

And just to be clear, Josh Shapiro did not say and has never said that he "served in the IDF or in the Israeli military".

During his studies, Shapiro spent 5 months studying in Israel and participated in volunteer work for the Israeli Defense Forces on an Israeli Army base in a non-military capacity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_Shapiro#cite_note-jrouth-15

-------------------------------

Josh Shapiro graduated high school in 1991, college in 1995, immediately went to work on Capitol Hill the week he graduated, and continued to work on the staffs of Democratic legislators while he studied law in a night school program. He graduated Georgetown Law School in 2002 and moved home to PA to work at a Philadelphia law firm.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime-courts/2019/02/25/Pennsylvania-attorney-general-Josh-Shapiro-embraces-high-level-battles-upmc/stories/201902230023

No paywall:
https://archive.is/cuI05

================================

Maybe someone can respond to the foreign twitter account and let them know that President Biden is neither "lying nor incompetent" and that the anti-Semitic "dual loyalties" slur is not going to work with Governor Shapiro.

[Nanjeanne]

117. Whatever you say. I can't read your reply. Too many words. I'm sure you are 100% right. Enjoy!

[lapucelle]

118. That's OK. I couldn't read some of the stuff on the twitter account you linked to. I don't read Arabic.

The words "Biden is either lying or incompetent", however, were in English.

[emulatorloo]

64. I'm shocked that you are doubling down on misinformation.

“While he was in high school, Josh Shapiro was required to do a service project, which he and several classmates completed through a program that took them to a kibbutz in Israel where he worked on a farm and at a fishery,” Shapiro’s spokesperson Manuel Bonder told The Times of Israel.

“The program also included volunteering on service projects on an Israeli army base. At no time was he engaged in any military activities,” Bonder added in a statement responding to an inquiry regarding the nature of his volunteer work.

He was a high school kid on a trip to Israel. He did some volunteer work in Israel

HE WAS NEVER IN THE IDF.

[Cha]

103. Yes so very Shocking. It seems very important for

some to Double and Even Triple DOWN to Attempt to Put A Negative On Gov Shapiro.

I can't Wait until This is OVER!!

Thank You So Much for the Reality Checks!

[lapucelle]

80. People are pushing back on misinformation before it evolves into DISINFORMATION.

No one is defending service in a foreign military organization because IT DIDN'T HAPPEN. Josh Shapiro was a high school kid on a service trip. The service included volunteer activities on a farm, in a fishery, and on a military base.

As Democrats, we all need to do our part by calling out anyone on social media who conflates a high school volunteer service trip with BEING A MEMBER OF THE MILITARY.

Who benefits from misinformation repeated to the point that it becomes disinformation?

Cui bono?

Not Democrats.

[Nixie]

90. Plus a million. The disinformation mongers are a very

curious bunch.

[Cha]

104. Mahalo, lapucelle! "Who benefits from misinformation repeated to the point that it becomes disinformation?"

"Not Democrats."

Brilliant!

[lapucelle]

69. Except that Shapiro wasn't "a member of a foreign military service".

He was a high school kid on a service trip.

In response to a request for clarification about the extent and nature of his service in Israel, Bonder told JNS that Shapiro volunteered in Israel while he was a student at Jack M. Barrack Hebrew Academy in the Philadelphia suburbs.

“While he was in high school, Josh Shapiro was required to do a service project, which he and several classmates completed through a program that took them to a kibbutz in Israel where he worked on a farm and at a fishery,” Bonder told JNS. “The program also included volunteering on service projects on an Israeli army base.”

“At no time was he engaged in any military activities,” Bonder added.

https://www.jns.org/pa-governor-disavows-college-op-ed-arguing-peace-with-palestinians-virtually-impossible/

[brush]

4. Well that's that. We can't afford to lose battleground state Mi.

[wnylib]

18. Can't afford to lose PA either.

[brush]

31. So we keep one or lose one, instead of keeping both?

Let's do the smart, pragmatic thing and keep both.

[wnylib]

37. I am just pointing out that MI is not the only important state

in the EC vote.

I have not chosen any favorites among VP candidates. I trust that the Harris campaign can weigh the pluses and minuses of each candidate and choose one that will work best with her and for her. I also trust that, if she chooses someone with any perceived negatives among the general public, she will only do that if she has a strategy for winning with that candidate.

[brush]

49. And I'm pointing out we don't have to take the chance of loosing MI...

to keep PA. There are other incredible Dem VP options than MI or PA. We can keep both MI and PA by going with either Kelly, Walz, Bashear...why take a chance?

It's obvious you're in the Shapiro camp, he's a good Dem but the timing is just not right now with the Gaza war going on, protests raising, Netanyahu expanding it with strikes in Lebanon and Iraq, it just came out of Shapiro's IDF ties as a young man. If not for that war, he'd be a great choice.

But the timing is just not right. Shapiro would make a great AG. Even making him Sec'y of State would not be good because of the above reasons.

We have to do the smart thing.

[wnylib]

55. Why are you asking me? It's VP Harris' decision to make.

As AG and as a DA, she has had plenty of experience in choosing legal partners and surrogates who could carry a case with juries to get the necessary votes. I think she knows how to make this decision. I am certain that she has whatever information on the candidates that we have, plus more that we don't have. She also has political advisors and her own good judgment for choosing a VP and devoping good election strategies.

[brush]

59. Are you backing away from your posts stating your obvious preference for Shapiro as the veep pick?

It's okay to be an advocate. It best to weigh all the pluses and minuses.

[wnylib]

61. Re-read my posts. Your claim that my posts

state an obvious bias for Shapiro is false.

[brush]

63. Oh, okay.

[jg10003]

73. Harris can lose MI and still win the election if she wins PA. She cannot lose PA and win the election.

Math doesn't lie.

[brush]

81. Well, show us the math. It's going ot be a close election. Why take chances?

[SocialDemocrat61]

34. Are you saying there is no way

to win Pennsylvania if he's not on the ticket. I heard the same argument about Georgia and Stacey Abrams 4 years ago.

[wnylib]

40. See my #37.

[Cha]

105. And Why Would We "Lose Michigan"?

Because VP Harris chose a Jewish VP Candidate?

[Demsrule86]

88. We won't. This is a serious minority who would never vote for us anyway...For example Nina Turner is

one of the leaders...likely stay home or vote third party...after all of this nonsense. PA voters will be pissed and that is a problem.

[Sky Jewels]

125. We can't afford to lose even a few percentage points of Gen Z either.

Walz has none of these divisive downsides. . Talk about a unifying pick!

[elocs]

5. A lot of us did things when we were young which is not who we are now having matured.

But it was on the path to making us into who we have become.

[marybourg]

16. There was not, and is not, anything wrong with what he did. He isn't my

preferred candidate, because of fear of just this type of reflex antisemitism.

[orange jar]

32. No, he did not.

He volunteered for a summer when he was in college. He is not the only one to do this, nor are American Jews — plenty of Americans do volunteer work in other countries. Why do you refuse to drop this narrative?

Also, Shapiro isn't even running for president. Where is that coming from? We don't even know if he will be the VP pick.

[madaboutharry]

43. I suggest googling the definition of a trope.

[Think. Again.]

46. Wow, that's just an outright lie.

[sarisataka]

47. Dual loyalty

dual loyalty
noun 'd(y)oōəl 'loiəltē

: loyalty to two separate interests that potentially conflict with each other, leading to a conflict of interest

WHEN IT’S ANTISEMITIC:
Dual loyalty is a bigoted trope used to cast Jews as the “other.” For example, it becomes antisemitic when an American Jew’s connection to Israel is scrutinized to the point of questioning his or her trustworthiness or loyalty to the United States. Dual loyalty accusations also occur on U.S. college campuses when Jewish students are asked to denounce the actions of the Israeli government in order to participate in progressive activities.

By accusing Jews of being disloyal citizens whose true allegiance is to Israel or a hidden Jewish agenda (see Globalist), antisemites sow distrust and spread harmful ideas — like the belief that Jews are a traitorous “fifth column,” meaning they are undermining their country from within. The Soviet Union also peddled propaganda accusing Zionists of being disloyal to the state. The allegation of dual loyalty can also be aimed at non-Jews for what antisemites see as being “excessively loyal to Israel,” a criticism rarely leveled against friends and supporters of other countries.

For centuries, these antisemitic accusations of disloyalty have led to the harassment, marginalization, oppression, and murder of Jewish people.

from the American Jewish Committee

[marybourg]

48. You have not read the link or what people are writing. He did nothing other

than intern-like public service activities, some of which were on a military base. He was NOT a member of the military and did not pledge allegiance to anybody. At least as far as the linked article states. If you know something the rest of us don’t know, spit it out. But if not, you’re mis-stating what’s in the linked article.

[emulatorloo]

53. THAT IS UNTRUE. Please self delete

Here are the facts:

“While he was in high school, Josh Shapiro was required to do a service project, which he and several classmates completed through a program that took them to a kibbutz in Israel where he worked on a farm and at a fishery,” Shapiro’s spokesperson Manuel Bonder told The Times of Israel.

“The program also included volunteering on service projects on an Israeli army base. At no time was he engaged in any military activities,” Bonder added in a statement responding to an inquiry regarding the nature of his volunteer work.

[emulatorloo]

57. Read the damn quote from the OP's article and stop spreading disinformation.

“While he was in high school, Josh Shapiro was required to do a service project, which he and several classmates completed through a program that took them to a kibbutz in Israel where he worked on a farm and at a fishery,” Shapiro’s spokesperson Manuel Bonder told The Times of Israel.

“The program also included volunteering on service projects on an Israeli army base. At no time was he engaged in any military activities,” Bonder added in a statement responding to an inquiry regarding the nature of his volunteer work.

He was a high school kid on a trip to Israel. He did some volunteer work in Israel

GET IT NOW? HE WAS NEVER IN THE IDF.

[questionseverything]

65. nyt's article

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/02/us/politics/josh-shapiro-palestinians-college.html

Mr. Shapiro, who was 20 at the time, noted in his essay that he had spent five months studying in Israel and had volunteered in the Israeli Army.

“The only way the ‘peace plan’ will be successful is if the Palestinians do not ruin it,” Mr. Shapiro wrote, adding, “Palestinians will not coexist peacefully.”

[emulatorloo]

67. Once again read the actual quote in the OP article. You are completely misinterpreting the NYT'S one

“While he was in high school, Josh Shapiro was required to do a service project, which he and several classmates completed through a program that took them to a kibbutz in Israel where he worked on a farm and at a fishery,” Shapiro’s spokesperson Manuel Bonder told The Times of Israel.

“The program also included volunteering on service projects on an Israeli army base. At no time was he engaged in any military activities,” Bonder added in a statement responding to an inquiry regarding the nature of his volunteer work.

He was a high school kid on a trip to Israel. He did some volunteer work in Israel.

GET IT NOW? HE WAS NEVER IN THE IDF.

You wrote:

“ He pledged loyalty to a different country”

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE

[emulatorloo]

72. I can not make it any plainer. You completely misunderstand. You claim he was a member of the IDF, he was not.

You claim he swore allegiance to Israel. He did not. There is zero evidence for either of these claims.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of Shapiro’s high school trip to Israel to do volunteer work.

You are then jumping to a bunch of false conclusions and making wild fact-free assertions because of your fundamental misunderstanding.

[questionseverything]

75. it's saturday night, the article is there for anyone to read....have a good one

[emulatorloo]

77. You too.

[lapucelle]

94. Shapiro did not write that in his essay. Those are not his own words.

It is the editor's biographical addendum after the conclusion of the essay.





----------------------------------------------------

Cautionary note: Seek out and use primary sources whenever possible.

Shapiro's student essay (primary source):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i3VqES9WPttyAbv666GXWcaJDgIJ9QWp/view

[TommyT139]

108. In his words

In the last paragraph of his text, he wrote, "Despite my skepticism, as a Jew and a past volunteer in the Israeli army, I strongly hope [etc. etc.]"

That would seem to be more relevant than the red-boxed text at the end, which is clearly written by someone else.

Obviously, who he is now seems more pertinent. But his past participation is in his own words.

I like many others here trust VP Harris to pick the person right for her. But even with Josh Shapiro, winning PA will be very hard fought, as anyone who's been following the spread of right-wing hatred, homo/transphobes, and book burners in PA will know.

[lapucelle]

112. Yes, I know what Shapiro wrote in the essay. I was refuting the claim by the poster (via the NYT)

that those specific words were in Shapiro's op-ed. They weren't.

I was responding to this:

[TommyT139]

113. /nods

[lapucelle]

92. The New York Times article says no such thing.

There is NOTHING in the article that says "Shapiro claimed to have joined the IDF when he was 20".

Where you getting this stuff from, and why are you bringing it here?

Shapiro’s College-Era Criticism of Palestinians Draws Fresh Scrutiny

The Pennsylvania governor, a top contender to be Vice President Kamala Harris’s running mate, wrote in his college newspaper that Palestinians were “too battle-minded.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/08/02/us/politics/josh-shapiro-palestinians-college.html

No paywall:
https://archive.ph/i6XRv

=========================================

And here's a link to Josh Shapiro's student essay that appeared in his college newspaper. It was really sloppy on the part of the NYT's fact checker to have allowed this inaccuracy to stand.

Mr. Shapiro, who was 20 at the time, noted in his essay that he had spent five months studying in Israel and had volunteered in the Israeli Army.

That information was not noted in the essay. It was an editor's biographical addendum.

Peace Not Possible

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1i3VqES9WPttyAbv666GXWcaJDgIJ9QWp/view

[emulatorloo]

66. Bullshit. He did no such thing.

[NoRethugFriends]

9. 6-27-2024

[Mossfern]

29. Yep

Rec'd

[madaboutharry]

15. It was part of a high school program where they did volunteer work

at various places that included an army base. He was a high school kid on a trip abroad. He wasn’t a soldier for crying out loud.

This is ridiculous.

Of course it is too much trouble to actually read the article at the link.

[wnylib]

20. +1000

[Sympthsical]

25. Oh, I think omitting that salient information is quite on purpose

Quite on purpose.

People know the headline and shared content will oftentimes be the only thing read. So omitting crucial context gets a distorted point disseminated.

They know. It's intentional. Happened here and in the other thread.

[yardwork]

17. Remember how ridiculous it was to blame Bernie for an essay he wrote in college?

This is equally ridiculous. Shapiro isn't my first choice and I never voted for Bernie, but ridiculous is ridiculous.

[Skittles]

41. sorry

I found his essay revolting

[questionseverything]

50. One huge difference is Bernie's was fiction

[lapucelle]

97. It wasn't fiction. It was an essay that theorized on causes of cancer.

For Bernie Sanders, radical views once extended to theories on what causes cancer

"I have my own feelings about what causes cancer," Sanders said in 1988.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-radical-views-extended-theories-cancer/story?id=69213240

--------------------------------------

Primary source:

Cancer, Disease, and Society

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2157403-sanders-cancer.html

[Sympthsical]

21. Dual Loyalty Trope gonna trope

Pretty exhausting week for the "Totally Not About the Jews (except it's totally about the Jews)" brigade.

Where do they find the energy?

[madaboutharry]

22. I know.

Like the Energizer Bunny…keeps going and going….

[orange jar]

30. Yep.

I don't see the same people pearl clutching over Americans fighting in Ukraine right now. Why aren't they being accused of being disloyal to the US or being in the pocket of a foreign government?

The far left is just as gullible and susceptible to bigotry as the right. They just couch it in "oppressor vs victim" terminology. If Zionism is oppressive, then maybe that means that Judaism itself is oppressive, and therefore Jews are naturally oppressors and antisemites are morally correct and "punching up."

They always complain when the actual neo-Nazis applaud them and go, "Hell yeah, brother! Solidarity!" and say that neo-Nazis are invading their movement. Um, no. They're repeating the same exact tropes and stereotypes you are, the only difference is that they openly wear Swastikas instead of holding banners with red triangles.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

33. "I don't see the same people pearl clutching over Americans fighting in Ukraine right now."

Do any of them have aspirations to being commander in chief of the United States military? If they do, I'm sure we'd hear about it.

[orange jar]

35. Does Shapiro?

Just because someone may be VP doesn't necessarily mean they want to be the future president. It's probably a factor in the presidential nominees' decision, but they're still two different jobs and vice presidents have years before they actually decide. We don't even know if he will be Harris' VP pick.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

45. "Just because someone may be VP doesn't necessarily mean they want to be the future president."

Lol c'mon now.

[Sympthsical]

39. I'm sure we would hear about it

From Republicans.

[emulatorloo]

58. Shapiro was not in the IDF nor did he "fight."

Get real. DU is the fact based site, so try to stick with facts.

“While he was in high school, Josh Shapiro was required to do a service project, which he and several classmates completed through a program that took them to a kibbutz in Israel where he worked on a farm and at a fishery,” Shapiro’s spokesperson Manuel Bonder told The Times of Israel.

“The program also included volunteering on service projects on an Israeli army base. At no time was he engaged in any military activities,” Bonder added in a statement responding to an inquiry regarding the nature of his volunteer work.

He was a high school kid on a trip to Israel. He did some volunteer work in Israel

HE WAS NEVER IN THE IDF.

[Sympthsical]

38. Korean Americans as well

Being a dual citizen does not make people exempt from their compulsory service unless they renounce, and I personally know natural born American citizens who have gone through it (it's a whole complicated thing about their citizenship status, etc.)

And they're actually in uniform running around with rifles. Not bouncing around on kibbutz.

I have never heard a whisper about their loyalty.

[ColinC]

51. The question of foreign allegiance here would become a relevant conversation.

However insignificant it might turn out.

[pat_k]

56. That doesn't concern me. His 2021 statement "BDS is rooted in antisemitism" does.

I don't know many people who had fully evolved ideas when they were 20.

The problem is his record opposing legitimate protest against Israel's policies now.
I do have a problem with his support for the anti-BDS law against Ben & Jerry’s after the ice cream maker refused to license its product for sale in Israeli settlements. In a 2021 statement, he stated “BDS is rooted in antisemitism.”

He also voiced support for laws that would withhold funding from any public university that opted to engage in BDS.

Calls to Boycott, Divest, and Sanction are intended to create conditions under which Israel may be pressured to cease it's systematic efforts to displace Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza through illegal settlements and inhumane treatment of Palestinians. It is a nonviolent human rights movement modeled on the anti-apartheid movement.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19280609

[TheKentuckian]

89. It is a death to Israel scam significantly perpetrated by antisemitic and racist assholes

that want to run Jews off the ancestral home.

I see no reason to support such efforts with tax dollars.

[pat_k]

102. Opposing illegal settlements is not "death to Israel"...

... by any stretch of the imagination. A third of Israel's oppose them as damaging to their security.

?si=0RtUbcX2iMrn3bLP

[TheKentuckian]

128. Yeah, that is all the "movement" is about...that's the ticket!!!

[pat_k]

129. For a vast majority, it is.

Attributing base motives to the protesters as a whole represents it's own kind of discriminatory attitude. I suggest you get out and talk to more of them before passing judgement on about 50% of the people under thirty and 30% in other age ranges who believe the illegal and immoral conduct needs to end. Your blanket condemnation of the subset of those people who are taking action consistent with that belief is out of line.

[TheKentuckian]

132. Did I stutter?

[pat_k]

135. ??

[SocialDemocrat61]

71. I have no problem with someone serving in a ally's military

that has been happening for decades. Nor do I have a problem with someone doing a summer internship in another country. It’s not like he went to Russia and worked for the KBG.

My concern is that if this issue is so divisive here, how will it play out in the general public. Remember, the goal is to win the election and nothing else. It’s going to be close and we will need every vote we can get from progressives, from the young, from moderate swing voters and yes, from Arab Americans. Let’s keep our eyes on the prize.

[emulatorloo]

79. ...

You wrote:

pinkstarburst:
I also question if he can be completely impartial
Reply to onandup (Original post)
Sat Aug 3, 2024, 06:48 PM
in light of this new information and the current situation over in the Middle East right now. Moreover, can the people we are expected to deal with trust that our elected representatives will act as representatives of the US's interests only, or will they feel that they see themselves as having dual loyalties, even in a small way?

Just so you are aware:


https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19281848

dual loyalty
noun 'd(y)oōəl 'loiəltē

: loyalty to two separate interests that potentially conflict with each other, leading to a conflict of interest

WHEN IT’S ANTISEMITIC:
Dual loyalty is a bigoted trope used to cast Jews as the “other.” For example, it becomes antisemitic when an American Jew’s connection to Israel is scrutinized to the point of questioning his or her trustworthiness or loyalty to the United States. Dual loyalty accusations also occur on U.S. college campuses when Jewish students are asked to denounce the actions of the Israeli government in order to participate in progressive activities.

By accusing Jews of being disloyal citizens whose true allegiance is to Israel or a hidden Jewish agenda (see Globalist), antisemites sow distrust and spread harmful ideas — like the belief that Jews are a traitorous “fifth column,” meaning they are undermining their country from within. The Soviet Union also peddled propaganda accusing Zionists of being disloyal to the state. The allegation of dual loyalty can also be aimed at non-Jews for what antisemites see as being “excessively loyal to Israel,” a criticism rarely leveled against friends and supporters of other countries.

For centuries, these antisemitic accusations of disloyalty have led to the harassment, marginalization, oppression, and murder of Jewish people.

_-------------

Here’s Shapiro’s current position:

“I personally believe Benjamin Netanyahu is one of the worst leaders of all time,” Shapiro told reporters in January, months before Democratic Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer called for the Israeli leader to resign. At the time, Shapiro also pressed for an “immediate two-state solution,” something Netanyahu and his hard-right government stridently oppose. The anti-Shapiro campaign ignores these remarks but makes much of the governor’s comparison of campus Gaza protesters to “people dressed up in KKK outfits.” When he said that in an interview, however, Shapiro was distinguishing between bigoted extremists—such as the Columbia campus-protest leader who called for killing “Zionists”—and peaceful demonstrators, about whom the governor has said, “It’s right for young people to righteously protest and question.”

From:

Who’s Afraid of Josh Shapiro?
The Pennsylvania governor called Benjamin Netanyahu “one of the worst leaders of all time.” But anti-Israel activists don’t want him on the Democratic ticket.

By Yair Rosenberg

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2024/07/josh-shapiro-netanyahu-jewish-vp/679300/
https://archive.is/XQXcM

[sarisataka]

91. Are you claiming he will favor Israel because he is Jewish

Are you aware of the antisemitic dual loyalty trope?

[Demsrule86]

101. You know JFK was asked if he be loyal to the US or to the Vatican...he was Catholic...bigoty a curse we continue

to live with...I got to say it turns my stomach.

[Demsrule86]

86. Oh my stars...bring me my smelling salts and some pearls to clutch...30 years ago he volunteered for the IDF or on

Last edited Sat Aug 3, 2024, 11:08 PM - Edit history (1)

a Kibbutz...Jewish people should not be allowed to serve as president, Vice President...etc

[ms liberty]

95. He's going to be asked about it because with the ME being a powder keg right now there's no way it wouldn't

Come up. But it was 30 years ago. He can.prepare an answer about how his views have evolved from when he was a kid of 20. I'm sure they have; smart people mature and their views change as their experience in the world grows, and he's.a smart guy. This is just something to be ready for, if he becomes the veep nominee.

[Mossfern]

107. There is/was NOTHING WRONG

with what he did 30 years ago.
He does not need to apologize or qualify what he did.

It makes me furious that Jewish politicians need to pass some sort of smell tests.

[ms liberty]

130. You might want to reread what I wrote, because I didn't say he or what he said was wrong

I said that whatever he said was 30 years ago when he was 20, and a statement about his views evolving would do, and that I'm sure his certainly have. I said that not because he's Jewish or just because he's Jewish, but you know because IT'S 30 EFFIN' YEARS LATER.
It has nothing to do with him being Jewish - ANY candidate would be grilled if a statement from 30 years ago was unearthed and that statement related to current geopolitical events that have the opportunity to be not just really polarizing but oh yea, an effin' powder keg to boot. Substitute Buttigieg, Walz or Kelly as the author and my opinion remains the same.
And while I know what a kibbutz is and understand that there's misinformation around it right now, not all the democrats across the country or in the rural southern counties like mine will get the real info unless it's discussed. I grew up in a large multicultural city; I learned about and experienced different cultures but a lot of the country doesn't have that and insularity breeds ignorance. And so again, if Shapiro's going to be the nominee, he's going to get asked, and he needs to address it. Not apologize, but explain and educate. And again, if one of the others had a similar situation, I would expect them to do the same.

From my point of view, you're telling me that Shapiro should never be asked about the ME, or his views in relation to the ME questioned because he's Jewish. Sorry but that's a hard no. If there's any "smell tests" for him to pass, I expect the Christian candidates I've been critiquing for 50 years to pass them too. And the only reason I am separating them by religion here is because YOU took it there.

[Mossfern]

133. You misunderstood my comment

Volunteering on a kibbutz is not joining the armed forces of Israel.
It does not constitute allegiance to another nation. He should not be called to
justify or apologize for doing something that was not wrong in any way.

It doesn't matter whether it was 30 years ago or yesterday - there is nothing wrong.

[ms liberty]

137. And I never accused him of joining the IDF, nor did I accuse him of giving allegiance to another nation

And again, I did not demand he apologize or justify. And finally again, I will reiterate that I did not accuse Shapiro of doing anything wrong.

My comments were not as you describe, and you're misrepresenting a very real need to educate and provide context to the wider electorate as if it was a value judgement equaling a wrong, which it is not. I am not going to re-summarize them further. Perhaps YOU should reread my comment to which you first replied and then reread my previous reply to you, because you keep accusing me of making comments I did not make and I'm feeling insulted by a second set of accusations not based on my actual comments.

[Mossfern]

138. I'm not accusing you of anything, just disagreeing with what you said ...

He can.prepare an answer about how his views have evolved from when he was a kid of 20.

I hardly believe that he regrets the time he spent on the Kibbutz or the time he spent volunteering in Israel.
If he prepares an answer, it should be to disavow any notion of others that he was displaying disloyalty to the US or questions his commitment to the US at any time in his life.

The sad part is that he needs to make a statement about this at all; but unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation and ignorance surrounding the issue.

[dchill]

110. Grist for the mill.

[Sugarcoated]

111. This is smear

[ZonkerHarris]

124. this is why you do due diligence on everyone

[ecstatic]

134. if the VP choice is divisive, we lose

I don't care who is picked, but I know that if it ends up being divisive, we'll be too distracted to focus on defeating trump.