"I'm a good person and I support Donald Trump."

[Different Drummer]

Link to tweet

[Irish_Dem]

1. No decent person can support Donald Trump.

[Different Drummer]

2. Agreed. n/t

[deRien]

6. Unfortunately, there

are people who are good that support him. I have family members who are kind, generous, and well educated (I'm talking doctors, business people), etc. but for some unknown reason support him. I don't talk politics with them so maybe some of them are no longer supportive.

[Irish_Dem]

8. This cannot be true.

To vote for Trump means they support a rapist, a racist, a known traitor, felon, who lead an insurrection and
stole and sold classified documents.

If they know this and still support him, it means they are not decent people.

Even if they lie to themselves and pretend it is not true, they are still not decent people.

They would put all Americans and our democracy at risk because someone appeals to their dark side
and they have to lie to cover it up.

This is not basic decency.

[whathehell]

83. With all due respect, Irish Dem,

I agree with virtually everything you've said, but though I strongly suspect Trump sold the classified documents, we have no proof at this point.

[ucralum]

9. To quote the late, great Stephen Sondheim...

“Nice is different than good.”

[Irish_Dem]

32. Yes being nice does not mean you are a good person.

[pat_k]

10. I absolutely disagree with the premise that. . .

... all people voting for Trump are evil. Saying that is writing off close to half the voting age adults in this country as evil (or a lot more than that if you count not voting at all as supporting Trump).

I am so sick of "us" hating on "them" and "them" hating on "us"

Human beings are much more complex than that.

Some just live in areas where "everyone" votes Republican, so that's what they are doing. We are social creatures and social forces vastly out-weigh any reasoning or logic.

Some are stuck in the fox bubble.

Many are struggling. We cannot underestimate the toll being taken by inflation in rent and other monthly costs like auto insurance and health insurance. A lot of these folks are are voting for Trump because things suck and they think Trump will "shake things up." They want change for change sake.

Some are voting for Trump because they think those "blues" hate them, or hate their religious beliefs. They feel vilified and that feeling binds them together. And demonizing Trump and his voters only feeds those beliefs.

A whole lot of them don't actually pay much attention to the rallies or the speeches. They've got enough on their plates.

If you're sick of the vicious cycle of deepening polarization and hate check out BraverAngels.org. They have structured events that promote a more productive way to engage across the divide that promotes our ability to disagree better and have some respect for our common humanity.

Of course, there are those who are so "far gone" that disengagement is the only answer, but you might find real hope in the structured "red/blue" interactions you'll find at BraverAngels.org workshops and events.

[deRien]

15. Thank you nt

[DeepWinter]

18. Couldn't agree more

I don't let politics poison my relationships. I have a lot of family, friends, co-workers, neighbors who are right of center and are great people I enjoy spending time with. The whole "cut them out" mindset is sad and "weird". (Favorite fad word now apparently.)

[Scrivener7]

26. If they're voting for him, they're very comfortable with rape and racism. So no. I disagree with you.

[Irish_Dem]

41. Exactly. They know that Trump is a rapist and criminal.

[Joinfortmill]

29. Like all the 'good Germans'.

[Skittles]

44. you get it

yup

[Skittles]

34. they're supporting a FASCIST

that goes beyond "we hate them, they hate us"

WE ARE FIGHTING FOR DEMOCRACY, it's not grade school tiff

[KPN]

35. Excellent post. And thanks for the info on

BraverAngels.

[pat_k]

84. Another is livingroomconversations.org

Co-founders Joan Blades (MoveOn) and John Gable (AllSides)

https://livingroomconversations.org/

[Irish_Dem]

38. Their refusal to pay attention and indifference are evil.

Like the "good" Germans who pleaded ignorance about the concentration camps.
They lived in towns where the crematoriums were spiting out smoke containing human flesh.
And ignored it.

They most certainly were not good people.

[ShazzieB]

93. I'm sorry, but I have to correct your history just a little.

Most Germans ("good"or otherwise) did not live in towns where the crematoriums were spitting out smoke containing human flesh. There were concentration camps in Germany, for sure, but the extermination camps with the big crematoriums were in occupied Poland.

Don't get me wrong, the Germans were aware that Jews were being rounded up and sent somewhere, but they didn't know exactly where or what happened to them when they got there. Meanwhile, the government was telling them that the Jews were being "resettled" in the "east," and I think most Germans either believed that or pretended to. There was nothing they could have done about it anyway, because by then, the Nazis were firmly in control of absolutely everything.

There was an earlier time, when Hitler was in the process of taking power and could have been stopped. The camps came later.

One thing I really admire about Germany is how the country took responsibility for the awful things Hitler did and for enabling him. The Germans have worked very hard since the end of WWII to nake sure nothing like that happens again. Unfortunately, there are fascist movements all over Europe today, including Germany, just as there are on this side of the pond. It's a neverending battle.

[Irish_Dem]

94. I disagree very much with your statements.

Between 1933 and 1945, Nazi Germany and its allies established more than 44,000 camps and other incarceration sites (including ghettos). The perpetrators used these sites for a range of purposes, including forced labor, detention of people thought to be enemies of the state, and for mass murder.


These sites were scattered all over Germany and Europe. They were so numerous that it is totally impossible for the German people to plead ignorance.

Eisenhower was so disgusted he insisted Germans be marched through the concentration camps after the war.

Germany had no choice but to take responsibility for what they had done. This was part of the unconditional surrender agreements made with them right after the war. And part of the $13 billion dollar Marshall Plan paid for by the US taxpayer.

I oould go on in more detail. As a military dependent I lived in one of the countries which lost WWII and saw first hand the reality of it. Out of respect for the two countries which have overcome their mistakes I will not go into details.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/09/26/women-now-outnumber-men-in-the-u-s-college-educated-labor-force/

[vanlassie]

53. Who said they are evil?

Don’t exaggerate the premise.
They can be nice but not good.

They can support evil without being evil.

They can certainly be ignorant and vote for Trump, although at this point it would likely be a form of willful ignorance.

[pat_k]

67. How would you characterize "being in...

..complete rebellion against goodness"?

[vanlassie]

86. Not Good.

The only people I can let off the hook for supporting Trump at this point are simple minded and stupidly ignorant people. My father bitterly disappointed me during the Trump years. He was not simple minded or ignorant. He was complicit. He was not evil, that I could tell, but I believe he lacked empathy. He was 93 when he died. I know he was raised in a racist home, and he was an entitled white man. No excuse.

[pat_k]

87. I guess I think some are reachable...

... And I've seen some ah ha moments in some of "them" at braverangels events. The "reds" that attend are clearly a subset because they are willing to be in the same "room" as "us."

When you are less invested in changing minds and making your points; when you can set aside assumptions and ask curious (not "gotcha" ) questions, it changes the dynamic. When people feel heard, they sometimes loosen their defensive grip and are open to actually listening to others in the same way.

Another group, living room conversations, is doing a similar thing.

But as I said in my post, there are of course those who are too far gone and disengagement is the only option.

FWIW, Monica Guzman, a journalist here in Seattle got involved in braver angels because she wasn't willing to disengage from her trump-supporting parents. I came across her book, I Never Thought of It That Way. Reading that got me interested in checking out braverangels. She also has a podcast, A Braver Way.

[vanlassie]

90. Thanks. I'll take a look!

[MorbidButterflyTat]

92. Maybe you should take your lectures to "the reds"

[LAS14]

56. Good for you!!! nt

[Zoomie1986]

60. Then don't.

That's your choice to make, and you can undoubtedly make it because you have so much unearned privilege that you need fear what they will do to you only a little, if at all.

The rest of us aren't so lucky as that. They are indeed evil in our estimation because the vast majority of them will not hesitate to abuse, assault or murder us, if given the chance to do so.

Maybe you want to live in denial about that essential fact, but your lack of concern for the welfare of those of us who are their targets is noted.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

95. Thank you

I know those maga psychopaths and flying monkeys would seek to kill me
I’m trans , have mental illness , diabetic, poor, leftist, I dispise trump and will never kiss disgusting ass. I am a satanist, furry, the list goes on.


To be a trumper now means your character is flawed and your empathy is stunted and you think you are entitled to make everyone else live how you want them to live.

That to me is evil.

[democratsruletheday]

13. "for some unknown reason support him"

really? Racism is the underlying thread deRien...at least IMHO

[Irish_Dem]

28. Greed and racism.

[Skittles]

46. that's EXACTLY what it is

they do not fool me one bit, UGH

[Irish_Dem]

47. Me either.

[Skittles]

63. especially NOW

I'll grant that some people may have wanted a "non-government" person, someone different blah blah but NOW they have SEEN the racism, the misogyny, the sexism, the homophobia, the corruption, the dictator-worship - WTF, the man-baby never even conceded the last election and then tried to OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT - if they STILL support him NOW something is seriously fucking WRONG with them, UGH!!!

[Irish_Dem]

70. He is a ruthless, brutal narcissistic sociopath, committing crimes in plain sight on TV.

Yep. No way around it. His supporters are not decent people.

[soldierant]

74. Don't leave out misogyny.

It's more powerful even than racism.

[Irish_Dem]

75. yep

[Deminpenn]

23. GOP business friendly policies is what they like, not necessarily

Trump.

[Irish_Dem]

27. They sell out their democracy, their country, fellow Americans for cash.

This is not decency.

[Deminpenn]

36. These folks are what we used to call "country club Republicans"

They aren't necessarily socially conservative, just like tax cuts and less regulation, etc.

[Irish_Dem]

43. What do you call people who sell out their country for cash?

Who get rid of democracy for cash?

Who make women, POC, LGBT second class citizens for cash?

[misanthrope]

76. Yeah, that is always the catch with a "country club"

It is an institution based on exclusivity and a sense of superiority. It isn't for helping others but rather for keeping them at bay.

[Quanto Magnus]

37. Yet...

They are completely willing to overlook the fraud, the sexual abuse, the lies, the insurrection, Christian Nationalism.....

Continues to show they are not decent/good people.... Using "It's just business" or some other lame azz claim..... it's just to hide they are actually really crappy people at heart.

[Sky Jewels]

61. They are NOT good people by definition.

They are okay with his racism, women hating and assaulting and raping, pedophilia, treason (Putin, January 6) and on and on. They have SHITTY values and that makes them shitty people, not good people. They helped make the lives of millions of people miserable. Because of those people you think are so good, Roe was overturned and women are now 3rd class citizens. And that’s just for starters.

Fuck everyone who has supported and enabled Trump. They don’t deserve your excuses for their shittiness.

[GoneOffShore]

96. No, no, and no. The problem is that the cultists and followers just don't get it.

They showed that all the things they've supported by supporting the loser don't balance the scales towards morality, justice, compassion, and logic. And it doesn't matter that they'll still be loving their families, rescuing dogs, helping strangers, going to church, donating to charities: It really makes no difference. They made a devil's wager and lost.

[haele]

19. The problem is these people live in their tribal bubble.

They're decent to those acceptable within their tribe, those who are socially acceptable.
Basically, they're the decent , friendly, God-fearing townsfolk from "the Lottery".
Those who are undeserving, who are scapegoats, who need to be banished for "the good of society" need to be disappeared. Destroyed. They aren't supposed to exist anymore.
Fear of not being acceptable to their community can be a driving force for them to support evil. After all, someone else needs be the focus of "Big Daddy's" rage. They need to stand beside "Big Daddy" even if a beloved family member is the one being othered and persecuted. Because only "Decent" people can belong to the group

Haele

[Irish_Dem]

31. They are not decent people.

They sell out their country, democracy, fellow Americans because of greed and racism.

They are despicable.

[haele]

39. I know. But they kid themselves due to fear of being cast out.

I'd feel sorry if they didn't cause so much damage overall.
They live in a bubble, they can't see decency outside that bubble. Scared or Selfish emotional midgets (sincere apologies to Little People).

Haele

[Irish_Dem]

42. Like the "good" Germans who pretended not to know what was going on.

Who lived in their own bubble.

They lived in towns with crematoriums spitting smoke and human skin all over the town.

They cannot be excused by pretend ignorance.

If there is such a thing as karma or heavenly judgement, they will be judged harshly.

[RT_Fanatic]

54. This is what I have been saying to everyone.

If you're a decent person, you have to reject everything TSF is and represents. You can't be a decent person and say, "This is the guy I want to see lead this country." Apologies to any/all of my friends and family who still vote GOP, but if you vote GOP, you are saying you're OK with the lying, the treason, the corruption, the sexual perversion and everything else.

[Irish_Dem]

58. And willing to give away your democracy to the Russians.

[claudette]

3. Every person

who supports the lying orange felon iOS NOT a good person.

[Clouds Passing]

4. Not one person with a shred of sanity would be pro-dump.

[Think. Again.]

5. "I'm a good person and I support Donald Trump, and what does "Cognitive Dissonance" mean?"

[Kittycatkat]

7. He's a rapist. Period. You're a horrible person.

I would say a rabid racist and a misogynist. I could go on, but why?

[pat_k]

11. See post 10

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219288248#post10

[Skittles]

68. there are enablers

and then there are people who excuse enablers

[pat_k]

81. If you'd like to see more unity...

... around common values I don't think writing off everyone planning to vote for trump as a lost cause is our best first step.

[Skittles]

82. I do not want to UNITE with people who support racism, misogyny, homophobia, xenophobia, FASCISM

FUCK THEM - anyone still supporting Trump is a LOST CAUSE

better to concentrate getting complacent folk to vote

[everyonematters]

12. If they are good people then, they are gullible people with no critical thinking skills.

[Irish_Dem]

45. This is not gullibility. It is pretend ignorance.

They can see women sent to hospital parking lots to die.

They can see the rights of women, POC, LGBT being taken away.

They can see democracy being threatened.

They can see juries finding Trump guilty of many crimes.

These are not good people.

[JoseBalow]

14. If you support Nazis, you are a Nazi

extrapolate as needed

[Paladin]

16. I'm with Pavlovitz

If you support trump, there's no way you're a good person. End of story.

[Different Drummer]

17. My thoughts as well. n/t

[dalton99a]

20. Good people don't support a lying thieving rapist felon

[Joinfortmill]

21. Yup

[LeftinOH]

22. About those "nice" people:

After you (figuratively) scratch the surface, they aren't as "nice" as they appear to be -- nor as "nice" as they believe themselves to be.

I've got a shitload of cousins who are evangelicals-- and I've had a lifetime's worth of their shallow "niceness." They're perfectly agreeable and pleasant people, as long you limit the conversation to benign stuff like dessert recipes, their doggies, other peoples' doggies, casserole recipes, yet more doggie drama, that new WalMart being built in the next town, etc. But if you dig even a little bit into their observations on society and current events, the balls-out bigotry, willful ignorance, and superstitious nonsense comes out. Every time.

[Farmer-Rick]

72. I went to a local church for my spouse

We went there for about 5 years. We thought they were good people. We made special meals for them and volunteered our time to help them. They were kind to my kids and gave me tips about gardening. I thought they were nice and pleasant people.

Then one day, I overheard a group of women say seriously racist, nasty crap. Old gray haired ladies I thought were kind and caring, were using the N word and other nasty crap about black folks. Pretty young mothers were calling folks they didn't even know dirty and stupid because of their skin color.

I was dumbfounded. We stopped going.

[Lucky Luciano]

73. Exactly! I'm sure many of these people even hold the door open for people behind them!

[wiggs]

24. They can appear to be good people, colleagues, friends....but if they are voting for TSF there is

something wrong somewhere with them, despite appearances.

[birdographer]

30. This 👆

Their value system is broken, moral compass is broken, there is some rot inside them. You can't support him and be spiritually well.

[SocialDemocrat61]

25. If you support and enable evil

you are evil

[Bundbuster]

33. "Good people" supported Hitler too

[AlexSFCA]

40. I still don't understand it but I know of genuinely good people who voted for him

and will vote again. However, I am finally seeing a common trait among that subset of people - they are kind, genuinely good but conversely also quite naive people. They don’t go too deep into policies and trump’s method of flooding info waves with multiple conflicting positions at the same time, does fool some of the good people.

[Mopar151]

51. They cannot deal with complex concepts.

Trump offers them simple (and fact free) analysis.

[LAS14]

59. Good insight. nt

[Skittles]

69. how naive do you have to be to excuse a traitor, rapist, con man

have they ever even heard the man speak?

[Mopar151]

88. They "bought in" when he was only annoying and full of shit. nt

[Skittles]

89. a lot of them are STILL "buying it"

and there are DUers who insist that good people support that vile piece of shit

[ProudMNDemocrat]

48. Being a good person voting for Trump is an OXYMORON.

[liberal N proud]

49. Can't be both!

[Bumbles]

50. I can't be a friend with someone who supports Trump.

Their values and perspectives and sensibilities are too skewed for me to want them in my life. At 81 and counting, I'm very choosy about with whom I spend my time.

[True Dough]

52. If I owned that creepy Trump doll pictured in the OP's quoted tweet

I would put it under the tire of my vehicle and then drive over it. Back up, and drive over it again.

Trust me, I'm a good person!

[Emile]

55. Only WEIRDOS support Donald Trump.

[H2O Man]

57. Recommended.

A pie with one cat turd cooked in is not a good pie.

[bhikkhu]

62. One of those two things has to be a lie. n/t

[The Magistrate]

64. Not Possible...

No person of good heart and sound mind could possibly support that creepy, vicious weirdo.

[LAS14]

65. I find myself appreciating fiction writers these days.

They give me a break from the black and white bubble bound attitudes prevalent in politics. A good author can portray the complexity present in every human being.

[MyMission]

66. What an oxymoron!

The quintessential oxymoron.

A good person would not support a person like him.
We all know he is awful, evil, hateful, criminal, insincere, narcissistic, a would be dictator, to name a few traits.

I have a republicon friend, former military, who is a good person, and he sees how "wrong" tfg is. He's supporting Kennedy, and tells me of numerous NC rethugs who will also vote for him. I'm just pleased he won't vote for tfg and happy he knows of others who won't either.

[maxsolomon]

71. My 88 year old father has voted for Trump twice and probably will a 3rd time.

I'm not comfortable saying he is not a good person, because other than voting poorly, he is.

10+ years after my mother's passing, he has returned to attending mass with his staunch Republican girlfriend, and watches both the local Sinclair channel and Fox.

My siblings and I cannot dissuade him from voting for Republicans. He told my sister he is voting for his grandchildren's future. They all vote for Dems.

[turbinetree]

77. What is really incredulous when one a person says that shit................because that is what it is .......shit.......

look at them and ask did you get your measles and polio vaccines when you were a kid to protect not only yourself and other kids....so that you can say that assine shit......because the fucker wants to do away with measle and polio vaccines...............and if it wasn't for those two vaccines that his parents had to make sure that he had before he went to school then he would not be standing on a stage spewing his shit......he has a fetish about people dying.............end of story........

[LakeArenal]

78. That's a real Oxy-MORON

[flying_wahini]

79. There were probably a lot of nice Guys in The Reich.

But that does not excuse their atrocities .

[MrWowWow]

80. Is that a post-lobotomy summation?

Or just a fleeting thought from an idea and imagination-challenged mind?

[Torchlight]

85. Anyone of good will supporting him is then an idiot.

Some of the nicest people I know are idiots easily manipulated by conmen, while most of the meanest people I know inform me consistently how damned clever they are... and always at the expense of those around them.

[mucholderthandirt]

91. I just think ignorance, willful or otherwise, is a root issue.

People have been dumbing down our education system for decades. DECADES. They've been pushing for tax payers to support their "Christian" schools, and then to turn all schools into theist training camps. I remember when I was in the sixth grade the state ruled that the Pledge of Allegiance would be mandatory, every day. The teacher was upset, she looked around the room and said "but you don't have to say it, or stand for it". So I didn't. Sixth grade and I knew this was nonsense. Like putting "in God we trust" on our money. The fuck. This country was actually founded so people could be free of religion.

If I could figure it out in the sixth grade, back in the 60s, why can't other people? Because this idiocy that is MAGA lets them say things they believe, lets them hate, lets them destroy the very thing that is keeping them from being slaves, from being tortured, from being dragged from their homes or workplace for no reason, never to be seen again.

They think they're safe, but they are not. Once no one needs them, they are going to vanish. Or starve on the streets, wondering why the rich won't help, whey the government won't help.

Anyway, I know some people who are Trumpers, but otherwise you wouldn't guess. My mother's surviving sister is like that. Kindest, nicest person you could ask for. Raised in a strong Democratic household. But drank the koolaid sometime around Reagan and never recovered. All my aunts were like that.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

We were founded as a secular nation. We better fight for it to stay that way. Oh, and eat the rich.