Some background info on Walz's military rank

[LonePirate]

I am posting this simply because I thought it provided some good background information on Walz's military service.

Link to tweet

Mark Hertling @MarkHertling

Many followers not familiar with the military are asking me “so what’s the big deal about a command sergeant major?”

Walz joined at 18 as a private. Rose through the NCO (sergeant) ranks, each requiring extreme competence at increasingly demanding jobs with more people & responsibility at every rank.

When you reach “Master Sergeant” you are selected to serve as a First Sergeant (1SG) of a unit…if you’re good enough. Then, those 1SGTs compete for selection to Sergeant Major. Only the best Sergeant Majors are selected for Command Sergeant Major (CSM) billets.

CSMs serve as the senior enlisted person in the unit and the advisor to Commanders at battalion and above. Having served with dozens of CSMs as my unit & command “battle buddy” I will attest they were all awesome.

They know what they’re doing. They uphold standards. They speak their minds to all ranks (private to generals). They’re not afraid of getting bad news because they know how to fix things when they go wrong. And they serve the command (their commander and their soldiers) with a selfless integrity and a complete dedication.

During social events and informal occasions, they’re usually a whole bunch of fun. And they always have great stories. But they’re always professional.

So, those are my thoughts on Command Sergeants Major. While I don’t know the details of @GovTimWalz career wearing the cloth of our country, just the fact that he volunteered to serve and wore the CSM rank tells me a lot about him.

[Irish_Dem]

1. He's a born leader.

[ProudMNDemocrat]

3. That is where he honed his LEADERSHIP skills.

I am a very happy camper today.

[Irish_Dem]

7. From the age of 17, he learned what being a leader meant.

Leading people and bringing them along.

You should be proud of such a fine man.

[COL Mustard]

52. Leading people

Is a selfless act if done right. It’s not barking out orders, it’s figuring out how to get the best out of every person in your organization. If you’re doing it right, it’s exhausting and exhilarating at the same time.

[Irish_Dem]

53. Exactly.

It is about achieving group goals by bringing out the best in people.

It is the best use of power.

It is not about control, cruelty, personal benefit.
It does not use the dark side of human nature.

Yes it is difficult work, humans are not easy to work with, but it is rewarding.

[brewens]

2. Yup. Those guys are a big deal. If military members tolerate unfounded attacks on his service, they need to

be called out and smacked the fuck down!

[jimfields33]

4. I totally agree! This is a HUGE accomplishment.

To put into better perspective. An E-7 is pretty good and ten percent make it to that rank. E-8 is magnificent and only 3 percent make it to that level. E9 is top of the cake and only 1 percent make it. Guess what? Out of that one percent only a relatively small number get Command Sargent Major.


This is the same for all four branches of service. They all pretty much follow this.


Governor Walz was a HUGE success in the military!


And in order to get to where he was he had to deal with every situation known to man literally. Remember, the military is a small segment of society.

[Mosby]

5. Since he earned a college degree, why didnt he become an officer?

Anyone know? I don't know much about the military.

[Johnny2X2X]

12. He was an officer

This is an officer position, just not a commissioned one. It's literally the highest rank an enlisted man can achieve.

This was an earned position. A commissioned officer is one who gets a rank because of their education before they even assume their role.

Sergeant Major is a big freaking deal.

[Mosby]

15. I'm not taking about semantics.

I googled my question, I think its maybe because he wasn't able to do OCS which is three months long. He was probably working full time. Or maybe he just wasn't interested, I dont know. His wiki entry is one of the worst examples of writing I've ever seen on Wikipedia, hopefully someone will clean it up and expand it. He seems like a really accomplished guy,

[Johnny2X2X]

25. It is not semantics

He was an officer in the Army. Period.

He reached the highest ranking officer position in the Army NG for enlisted men. JD Vance reached corporal, also an officer, the lowest ranked officer postion in the army for enlisted men. Neither were commissioned officers, but both officers anyways.

Commissioned is just an officer commission school you go to where you end up getting a position handed to you.

[Mosby]

28. OK sure, but a 22 yo second lieutenant would be his superior.

Just saying.

[Metaphorical]

30. My brother is a master sergeant

Yes, a second lieutenant is "senior" to an MS or even a CSM, and can order them to do anything ... and, as long as it is a legitimate command, the MS will do it. However, and this is very important, that 2nd Lieutenant will shortly thereafter be called in by the senior commander of the installation (at a minimum a Colonel) and after a long, blistering, and very much one-sided conversation, will be told that if he ever does something like that again, the Lieutenant will be commanding a station in Antarctica.

A command master sergeant has a LOT of clout.

[Johnny2X2X]

33. Not sure that's true

"While the SMA is a non-commissioned officer, protocol places the SMA higher than all lieutenant generals (except for the Director of the Army Staff) and equivalent to a general for formal courtesies in addition to seating, billeting, transportation, and parking."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_Major_of_the_Army#:~:text=While%20the%20SMA%20is%20a,billeting%2C%20transportation%2C%20and%20parking.

The position he reached is literally the highest honor for an enlisted man, I would bet he didn't get an officer commission because he preferred to be with the enlisted men leading them than with the commissioned officers. He was probably being pushed into officer commission school but chose to remain as an emlisted man and pursue the highest rank there.

[Aristus]

38. I agree with AKFemDem, Johnny.

A Non-Commissioned Officer (NCO) never refers to him or herself as an ‘officer’, even if it’s right there in the title.

Full disclosure: I was an NCO in the Army, a Sergeant (E-5), the lowest of the sergeant ranks; only corporal is lower.

Any NCO would bristle at being called an ‘officer’, and I could get into a lot of trouble if I went around telling people I was an officer in the Army.

Don’t get too hung up on the term ‘officer’. Walz was an NCO. Bottom line.

[Johnny2X2X]

42. Fair enough

Sounds like Sergeant Majors are the real deal.

[ShazzieB]

48. Thanks for clearing this up!

I was pretty sure that statement (NCO = officer) was not accurate, but didn't have the military background to be sure.

[AkFemDem]

31. Not an officer in the officer vs enlisted sense

An NCO is not the same as what most mean when they say “officer”- most enlisted members, especially who are NCO status would agree they are not officers… because they work for a living

[AkFemDem]

32. No, that is NOT what commissioned means

There are various paths to commissioning- OCS is only one. The academies are another. Direct commissioning from the enlisted ranks or in high demand specialities from a civilian field are another. The chief difference is congressional in nature.

[AZ8theist]

50. Yeah, but Dotard won a "Bowling Participation Trophy"

So he OUTRANKS THEM ALL!!!!!

[AkFemDem]

34. A CMSgt is not an officer.

I saw your other reply asserting Vance was also an officer as a Cpl- that is also not an officer.

[AkFemDem]

29. Tons of people in the enlisted ranks have degrees

It’s even more common today than it was when he was in.

[TBF]

45. I think he enlisted at 18, so he went to college after his military service.

It sounds like he got as far as he could as an enlisted guy.

[Shermann]

55. Those were in parallel

National Guard service was 1981 - 2005

Graduated from Chadron State College in 1989

Earned a Master of Science from Minnesota State University in 2001

[TBF]

65. Ah that makes more sense! nt

[questionseverything]

54. He didn't get the college degree until he used his gi benefits

[haele]

58. Didn't need to be. He's a non-commissioned Officer.

And as a senior NCO, the officers with oak leaves, birds, and stars on their collars will listen to him before they listen to any of the lower three levels of officers, and sometimes the lower 5.
Being a commissioned officer is a political job; you're appointed by Congress if they need you, and your ability to rise through the ranks to make a senior position is also constrained by Congress.
If you want to get things done, rise through the ranks pretty much on merit, and don't mind how much less you're getting paid to do the same work as an O4 or O5 because you don't need the political and paper-pushing hassle, you stay enlisted.

Retired Navy Chief (E-7) here. If I went started the process to become a commissioned officer when I first made Chief I'd probably only retire at O-3; I don't think I could handle the 7 years of paper pushing, budgeting and politics, even if I did end up in Engineering.
If you're used to doing work, you stay enlisted.

Haele

[soldierant]

64. I expect that was solely his choice

And it turned out to be a damned good one for him.

I had a college degree and joined as a Second Lieutenant. All of a sudden I had authority over thousands of people who were doing all the real work. And we were not supposed to "fraternize" with them. (OK, I mostly ignored that. If you are entrusted with authority over people you will misuse it if you don't know them.) Compared to Walz, my way was the easy way. Every promotion he got which gave him more authority also gave him more insight as a leader. As a direct hire officer, if I may use that analogy, every promotin you get generally makes you mor aware how much of the real work is being done ny enlisted and non-coms. At least it does if you are any good.

[Dan]

6. If he was a CSM - he's the man, the top dog....and the person that everyone (enlisted and Officers) listen to..

[ProudMNDemocrat]

10. You want someone to walk point? Tim is the man.

Kamala Harris DID GOOD!

JD is going to regret his comments.

[BoRaGard]

8. He's not a "sucker and a loser" like the republican draft-dodging felon thinks

I hope Walz will call out the republicon felon for his heinous
remarks about America's War Dead, Veterans, and Active Service personnel.

Such a disgrace that no republicon challenged the Felon
on his crapload of republicon poison dumped on the
men and women who keep us all safe.

[brush]

9. Am I understanding it right, Tim Walz was once the higheet NCO in the Army?

[rsdsharp]

20. No, he was a Command Sergeant Major, but not the Sergeant Major of the Army.

[brush]

23. Thanks. Now I'm clear on it.

Last edited Tue Aug 6, 2024, 02:44 PM - Edit history (1)

[bluesbassman]

21. Not quite. He was a CSM in the National Guard, not the Army.

So Walz was the highest enlisted man in his NG unit.

[brush]

24. Thank you.

[TomSlick]

61. Not to be too protective of the reserve components,

The Army National Guard and Army Reserves are part of the Army. The regular Army depends on the reserve components to accomplish the mission.

Anyone serving as a CSM is a strac, squared-away soldier.

[bluesbassman]

63. Oh I wholeheartedly agree and meant no disrespect to the Guard or Reserves.

The poster asked if Walz was CSM of The Army and that implies the RA which of course he was not. That said, achieving the rank of Command Sergeant Major is a huge accomplishment and even more so in the National Guard or Reserves as there just aren’t that many billets. Much respect to CSM Walz for his achievement!

[getagrip_already]

11. yyou mean its something tsf's caddy couldn't do? or maybe the guy who runs his pro shop?

Maybe a race car pit crew water boy? Or a ball boy at a tennis match?

[StarryNite]

13. Very interesting.

He's quite an amazing person and yet he's normal and grounded. He's a great pick for VP. Thank you for posting.

[rsdsharp]

16. Vance was a corporal in the Marines. Neither would salute the other,

but Walz far outranked Vance.

[WarGamer]

19. My bad... I could have sworn Vance was a 1LT... deleting.

still weird when a 20 year NCO has to salute a green 2LT

[Aristus]

39. Any good officer recognizes and respects the experience of the NCO's under his command.

I remember not long before I completed my service in the Army, my platoon got a brand-new 2nd Lieutenant right out of OCS.

Our platoon sergeant was gone that day, so I was acting in his stead. The new looie came up to me and said “Sergeant, I’m brand new at this, and still getting my feet under me. I’m just going to stick close to you for a while”.

I replied: “Sir, I think we’re going to get along just fine…”

I knew he was going to make a good officer, because he was open, honest, and eager to learn how to lead a group of rambunctious tank crewmen.

[WarGamer]

40. great story, thanks!! I can picture it.

[bluesbassman]

17. During my time in the US Army, I encountered many full bird colonels and a numerous generals. Only one CSM.

The CSM was by far the most impressive and intimidating man I had ever encountered. Squared away didn't even begin to describe this guy. After listening to him talk for about ten minutes I understood why he was a CSM and and any intimidation I had previously felt was replaced with respect. Later in civilian life I also had the opportunity to meet an interact with a female CSM who made rank in the MPs. Every bit as impressive and professional as any other First Sergeant and above I had known. Those people get to those ranks for a very valid reason: They are competent and know what they're doing.

[Aristus]

41. That's why I really object when high-ranking officers and NCO's

are portrayed in the movies as incompetent, bellowing buffoons.

You get to that level, you’ve got some real professionalism under your belt.

The best portrayal of a sergeant I’ve ever seen was Mike Horvath in “Saving Private Ryan”. Tough, good-natured, a superb fighter, and unshakably loyal to his captain.

The best portrayal of an officer I’ve ever seen was Bart Mancuso, the American submarine skipper in “The Hunt For Red October”. Calm, cerebral, thoughtful, professional.

[rsdsharp]

22. Vance was a Marine Corporal.

[kimbutgar]

26. Opps my bad I forgot !

[geardaddy]

27. He attained the rank of CSM

but retired a MSgt:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Walz#Military_service

[Metaphorical]

35. First and Command Master Sergeants

Master Sergeant is the top enlisted rank in the Army and the Army National Guard (equivalent to a Senior Chief Petty Officer (SCPO) in the Navy). The Air Force and I believe the Marines refer to this rank as a Senior Master Sergeant.

A First Sergeant or Command Master Sergeant (CMS) is a brevet rank - you are paid at a Master Sergeant pay grade, (though usually with augmented pay) but have more authority. Walz was a CMS until he retired from the Guard, but he retired as a Master Sergeant for pension purposes.

[geardaddy]

36. Thanks for the explanation

[Kingofalldems]

37. I always noticed field grade officers deferred to Command Sergeant Majors.

They are a big freaking deal.

[AverageOldGuy]

43. Command Sergeant Major is equivalent to. . .

General/Admiral in the officer ranks.

[PatrickforB]

44. This is a great post. Thank you for sharing it.

Speaks to his quality as the VP pick and definitely as a human being. He's got a stellar record as a governor, that's for sure.

[Martin68]

46. Thanks for the very interesting and relevant information.

[3Hotdogs]

47. Sergeant Major --- my uncle rose through all ranks from private to Lt. Colonel. beginning as a 17 year old, joining

the army during the Korean War.

He he'd every rank EXCEPT Sergeant Major. He wanted that rank.

but other opportunities came to him to have his college degree so he abandoned his quest for Sgt/Mgr to earn a degree and a commission.

[ShazzieB]

49. Thanks for this.

No military background here, so the information here (and in the comments) is fascinating to me. I would have had no idea what a CSM was or how impressive it is otherwise.

Walz sounds like the real deal, in more ways than one!

[KS Toronado]

51. All this information must be wrong or a fabrication of facts.

Had a morning FQX show on for a little bit this morning wondering what they were saying about Walz,
according to FQX he was offered a CSM position but turned it down because he was afraid of combat
and his unit was shipping out to Iraq so the coward quit the military and played it safe.

No mention of bone spurs, hard to believe a national televised "NEWS" source can just twist facts
into knots. With a little luck maybe we can find a way to take their broadcasting license away from
them. All they do is brainwash people into believing untruths

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

57. This story is going around vet circles

Specifically OIF/OEF vets. Particularly the part of him quitting before deployment. Got it sent to me from 3 different guys I served with so far. It will need to be countered.

[KS Toronado]

62. Sounds like FQX started it.

Wonder how the Operation Bone Spur Vets are taking this? When the truth comes out this will probably
be a nothing burger, Unfortunately lies just seem like they never die.

[BamaRefugee]

56. Excellent! I just heard his sound bites from a week to 10 days ago on Sirius XM progress and they were electrifying!

Just straight up, good old, down home DEMOCRATIC talk like the old days !
I'm old but I've been a Democrat ever since I watched Nixon Kennedy debate with my dad in Chicago on TV. I was radicalized Chicago 1968 and the first time I was able to vote was in 1970, which I did as a straight Democratic ticket in Georgia.
He and President Harris are trumpeting the things that we and all American needs to hear. I think it's so fantastic.

[OldSWODog]

60. a navy perspective

I understand how the military rank structure can be confusing for civilians and brand new service members. I served ten years as enlisted (E1 through E6) and thirteen years as a commissioned officer (O-1E through O4) in the Navy and still could not routinely describe the senior enlisted ranks of the USAF (USSF didn't exist then). However, I didn't have any dealings with many USAF folks. Simply put, the senior enlisted person of any military unit is still technically outranked by the "butter bar" in the service (2nd Lt in USA, USMC, USAF or Ensign in USN and USCG) but the brand new officer would be well advised to not casually assert direct authority over any E7 or above (SFC in USA, CPO in USN and USCG, GySgt in USMC, 1stSgt/MSgt in USAF) unless that officer plans on a miserable inititial tour of duty. In nearly all ships and units, the senior enlisted person is singularly respected by the Wardroom (commisioned officers) as well as the entire crew. Tim Walz is the real deal is a great addition to the ticket. Cheers, OSD