Shapiro wasn't "slighted"

[pat_k]

Last edited Wed Aug 7, 2024, 02:04 PM - Edit history (4)

The decision came down to the interview:

On Edit: Shortened excerpt to comply with DU copyright notice

How a low-key Midwestern governor shot to the top to be Harris’ VP pick

Tim Walz was in the midst of his interview with Vice President Kamala Harris’ vetting team when he told them there was something important they needed to know.

He doesn’t use a teleprompter, the Minnesota governor said. He doesn’t even have one, in fact. So if he was the pick, Walz said, Harris’ team would have to get him a teleprompter and teach him how to use it.

But Walz made it clear he would be a team player.

Asked how he saw his role as VP, Walz said he would perform the job however Harris wanted him to. . . asked if he had ambitions to run for president himself one day, Walz said he did not, a point that sources said was not lost on a team looking to minimize the potential for any internal drama in a future Harris administration.

“He had a very clear understanding that it was to be a partner. . .

“It was a home run," . . .

Shapiro. . . did not go over as well with Harris’ team. . . (He) struck some as overly ambitious, with “a lot of questions” about what the role of the VP would be. . .

Walz was seen as a pick that would come with less drama and palace intrigue. . .

“It was a striking contrast” between the two, said the source. . .

. . . In the end, the bigger hurdle for Shapiro was his face-to-face meeting with Harris, where he posed “very specific” questions about the role of a vice president. . .

“He was negotiating the job with her, while Walz was saying ‘What can I do to help?’” . . .

[crazylikafox]

1. Walz is a bad debater?

Whoops

Hope he was just being modest

[pat_k]

3. My thought exactly

I just can't imagine him not sweeping the floor with Vance tho

[Irish_Dem]

21. I wouldn't want to cross verbal swords with Walz.

I don't know why he is selling himself short.

[ananda]

62. Thinking of The Hustler, where the pool player pretends to be bad..

and then hones in for the kill.

[Irish_Dem]

67. I like it.

“I’m just a country bumpkin from the sticks. You’re a big fancy rich lawywr from Yale. I’m scared and know nothing.”

[ananda]

68. That's it!

From the way he spoke at the rally yesterday,
you can tell he's go total shark on Vance!

[Irish_Dem]

83. He will have Vance for lunch.

It will be almost sad to watch.
Not really.

[ananda]

95. LOL -- sad for him, happy for us!

[JI7]

11. Maybe he means in the way of a school debate

where they are graded on argument.

But actual debates are judged by how people come across instead of what was said as we saw with Biden in the last debate.

[pat_k]

16. That makes sense.

[Bucky]

31. Walz played the Midwest "aw shucks ma'am" game

He's not guileless. He's just subtle about it.

I can see Shapiro running for president. He's presidential where Walz is more Trumanesque. I agree that Josh might not be suited for 2nd fiddle.

"Palace intrigue" might be harsh, but Shapiro exudes ambition; more like Jack Kennedy. I think this speaks well of Harris's understanding of how to govern. She's already looking past the election to how her White House will run.

To her credit, I would've thought Kamala, as VP, would've fallen into the Shapiro mold. Maybe I'm just naturally suspicious of lawyers. But she has been a total team player under Biden, a Truman. She had the confidence and grace not to jockey or stand out when doubts about Biden's campaigning skills came to surface.

This just confirms what I've always suspected: we need to put more women in positions of power -- they handle it better.

[Joinfortmill]

63. I think they both loved Beau & that bonded them.

[pat_k]

85. Hear, hear!

[BrianTheEVGuy]

54. Minnesota modesty NT

[slightlv]

69. Over the last day or so, I've listened to

lots of interviews, press conferences, etc., that Walz has done. I've not seen one with which I'm not totally impressed. This, from someone who didn't even know who he was last month. He even impressed my hubs... not an easy thing to do for a politician. I think Harris made the right pick for any number of reasons. Not to mention, the man is just plain likeable. He seems to have a way to immediately click with people and make them feel at ease. His way of interviewing is not, maybe, in keeping with the stiff find-a-way-around the question answers that most people are used to hearing from politicians... but I count speaking your mind with plain truth as an asset!

[pat_k]

87. I can't find the reference. . .

but there was an article a week or so ago that noted that when Biden and Walz crossed paths, Walz always put Biden in a great mood -- so much so that his staffers looked for ways for them to cross paths more.

[Think. Again.]

2. Why would you think he was "slighted" ?

Sounds like a rightwing talking point to me.

[pat_k]

4. And this article counters the notion...

...that the decision was about his stance on protestors, or a reflection of antisemitism, or whatever other garbage is being pushed in the media -- and not just on faux.

Shapiro just wasn't a good fit as the type of partner she wanted.

[Think. Again.]

6. Why would we need an article to figure that out?

Got any articles on how great Walz was on the Agriculture Committee or his work to feed children in schools?

[pat_k]

8. Unclear to me where the hostility is. . .

. . .coming from.

I just thought it was an interesting article that clarified that the decision was more on personal connection and fit as a team than political calculus or resume.

YMMV

[Think. Again.]

10. WE Are the stronger side, WE control the narrative.

[pat_k]

14. I happened to like the narrative of this article.

And it provided insight into the process I hadn't seen elsewhere.

Sorry if the subject heading strikes you as problematic but I'm frustrated with the narrative of the selection being some sort of offensive "passing over" -- a narrative that is out there, and not just from "their" side.

[Irish_Dem]

22. Pat, this is a great article. A fascinating glimpse behind the scenes.

Thanks for posting it.

Shapiro was being a bit of a PIA.
Very interesting.

He must have felt he was in a very strong position to negotiate so hard for himself.

[pat_k]

71. Perhaps not surprising.

As far as conventional "wisdom" inside the party goes, he seemed the obvious choice, so perhaps it's not surprising he felt he was in a position to negotiate his role. Not "out of line." Just not a good fit with what Harris was looking for.

[Irish_Dem]

82. No it is not surprising now.

I don't know if I would call it out of line, but he missed the boat in some ways.
Lessons learned.

He learned a lesson, you cannot believe all the hype about yourself.
Nobody had a job sewn up until the job offer is made.

He also misread what Kamala was looking for and how she is wired.
He should have asked around and found out.

No matter how well positioned you are, you can blow the interview.

I once had a good friend who was very smart and capable. She wanted to interview
for a big job in her workplace, but decided against it because the big boss'
girlfriend was interviewing for the job and was the shoe in for the position
and everyone knew it.

I told her it is never over til it is over and go and do the interview.
I told her to go in and look and sound like the best candidates, blow them out
of the water with her abilities and skills. Even if she doesn't get the job, maybe
they will remember her for the next job that comes along. And maybe they will feel
a little guilty for giving it to a less qualified candidate.

She called me as she was leaving the interview. They offered her the job on the spot.
She is was in total shock. Later she found out the girlfriend was also in shock but for the
opposite reason.

[pat_k]

88. I love that story!

Wonderful advice. And wonderful that your friend took it!

A lesson we all need to keep in mind. It ain't over till it's over.

[Zoomie1986]

91. He also needed to know what a VP's job entails?

That he was asking so much in that vein goes to what I've said about his resume being on the thin side when it came to the federal government. I'm sure he's gangbusters on how PA works, but that can't even begin to help him when it comes to the federal level.

[Irish_Dem]

93. I kind of get what he might have been asking.

What was Kamala's vision of his job.
Some VPs have bigger roles than others.

But he missed the most important part of the interview.
Asking Kamala how he could best help her, what does she need and want from him.

Instead he was focusing on what Kamala could do for him.

[ShazzieB]

26. It was a very intereeting article, and I thank you for sharing it! 😇

I fail to comprehend why anyone would find it inappropriate or unhelpful in any way!

[Bucky]

34. The article is there because it's interesting.

It's what a lot of people care about. I like it when our political leaders' process is transparent.

But you're right that some more storiss on how Walz handles policy and power would be enlightening too

[Think. Again.]

38. maybe we shouldn't be so "interested" in divisive media B.S.

[Bucky]

45. We read the same article. I didn't find it divisive.

I thought it gave good insight into the 3 main characters and what motivated them. Not every reporter has a secret agenda.

For the most part, they're out to get the story, not out to get us

[PatrickforB]

19. Yeah, Andrea Mitchell was punding on this particular wedge this morning. n/t

[Think. Again.]

23. yep, makes Dems seem sleazy.

[Cheezoholic]

47. If she's taking that fork in the road, it's the wrong fork to be using ;) n/t

[Amaryllis]

32. CNN had a chyron referring to his "VP snub."

[Think. Again.]

35. Well, I guess every American over the age of 34...

...was just "snubbed" too.

[Cheezoholic]

49. Nah, you were right above. This is just the fucked up tabloid shit stirring media we have today at work

drumming up clicks and likes and shares to sites. Big fat ignore in my book when they start this shit.

[NH Ethylene]

33. Being slighted would require that he expected it and felt he deserved it.

If that is true (which I doubt) then who would even want him by their side in the White House?

[Bucky]

37. Look, he's ambitious. That's a good quality in a politician

But think about the types of politicians there are in the country. Doesn't Shapiro remind you of JFK? (except Josh keeps his horse in the barn, obviously)

But could you see JFK being a vice president? Goes against type. Not selecting Shapiro tells us Harris is thinking about how they'll govern, not just about winning the election. I find all this very reassuring; it speaks to her confidence.

[PeaceWave]

50. Shapiro has tremendous gravitas. The concern was likely that he would overshadow Kamala.

[Bucky]

53. We're kinda saying the same thing

It's entirely the VP's job not to overshadow the boss.

Like John Adams said, "I am nothing and yet I may become everything".

It was not a good fit for Josh. Harris knew what she was doing.

[Magoo48]

61. Really?

I feel like Kamala’s stage presence is the most dynamic and captivating as an to be found in our party right now.

[yardwork]

39. It's not just a right wing talking point.

Unfortunately, here on DU and elsewhere, some very shameful posts stated that Shapiro's being Jewish was disqualifying. I saw some of those posts and protested, as did others, but they got recs and approval. And it's not just on DU.

[Think. Again.]

44. I'm repulsed by those posts also..

...but why would anyone assume Shapiro was "slighted" when he, and all the other candidates, just happened to not be Harris' best choice?

[yardwork]

55. I haven't seen any Democrat suggest that he was "slighted."

However, there's some valid sensitivity around this issue that needs to be acknowledged. It can be healed - I think all Democrats want to unite and win this election - but reconciliation requires recognition.

The choice of VP is a political decision and needed to be strategic. However, it wasn't cool to come out and say "Shapiro can't be VP because he's Jewish" anymore than it was ok to say "Buttigieg can't be VP because he's gay." We Democrats need to stop doing that.

[Think. Again.]

76. There was no "strategic decision" to refuse Shapiro because he's Jewish.

This is a non-issue.

The rightwing started it because they know how quickly they would get a knee-jerk reaction that would inflame division among Dems.

Any "reconcililation" needs to recognize that there is nothing to reconcile about, and that Dems need to stop listening to, or repeating, any old B.S. that comes out of rightwingers mouths.

[yardwork]

80. You're ignoring numerous posts and OPs on DU.

I saw them. You said upthread that you saw them. I know for a fact that Jewish (and gay) DUers saw them. You can't expect them to forgive and move on if you don't even acknowledge that this happened.

[Think. Again.]

81. My post directly stands.

[Deep State Witch]

5. Just Heard on MSNBC

I was listening to MSNBC on the way home from the chiropractor. Whomever was being interviewed said that it came down to Kamala's gut instincts, and who she clicked with. She "clicked" with Walz. All 3 of the finalists were good, but she went with her gut.

I don't think that Shapiro was slighted at all. And, I don't think that he thinks of it that way, either. Besides, Pennsylvania needs him.

[pat_k]

12. Yep. I don't think he thinks of it that way either.

At least I hope he doesn't.

But it is never easy when a job interview -- at whatever level -- doesn't feel like it went well.

[Irish_Dem]

27. We don't know how Shapiro feels.

He didn't get a job he obviously wanted.

That doesn't usually feel good.

Maybe this article will help him understand why he didn't get the job.

[Gore1FL]

28. Yeah we do. He told us.

https://www.wpxi.com/news/local/pennsylvania-gov-josh-shapiro-releases-statement-after-kamala-harris-chooses-vp-running-mate/HSKGEEBEZJF4TMR3EGHYR4XVBY/

“My life in public service has always been motivated by my family and my faith. Since I first ran for State Representative 20 years ago, I’ve been called to serve because I want to leave our community, our Commonwealth, and our country better off for our children – and because my faith teaches me that no one is required to complete the task, but neither are we free to refrain from it.

“Nearly two weeks ago, Vice President Harris asked me to work with her team to complete the vetting process to be considered as her running mate – and following those conversations, on Sunday, I was grateful to have the opportunity to speak with the Vice President directly about her vision for the role and the campaign ahead.

“As I’ve said repeatedly over the past several weeks, the running mate decision was a deeply personal decision for the Vice President – and it was also a deeply personal decision for me. Pennsylvanians elected me to a four-year term as their Governor, and my work here is far from finished – there is a lot more stuff I want to get done for the good people of this Commonwealth.

“Serving as the 48th Governor of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is the highest honor of my life – showing up in your communities, listening to and learning from you, and then working across the aisle to get stuff done and deliver results for you. In just 19 months, we’ve made a meaningful, positive impact in peoples’ lives, and I’m proud of how Americans all across the country have taken notice of what we’re accomplishing here in Pennsylvania. I’m excited to continue working to protect and advance real freedom, deliver good schools, safe communities, and economic opportunity.”

“Vice President Kamala Harris has my enthusiastic support – and I know that Governor Tim Walz is an exceptionally strong addition to the ticket who will help Kamala move our country forward. Lori and I consider Tim and Gwen to be good friends of ours and we are excited for them and for the country to get to know the great people we know them to be. Over the next 92 days, I look forward to traveling all across the Commonwealth to unite Pennsylvanians behind Kamala Harris’ campaign to defeat Donald Trump, become the 47th President of the United States, and build a better future for our country.”

[Bucky]

41. I would only suggest one edit

"Serving as the 48th Governor of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania is the highest honor of my life..."

...so far!

We ain't heard the last of Josh Shapiro. Did you see that speech warming up the Philly crowd? Boy was dropping "y'alls" like he's from down home. He's gonna keep flying upwards, guaranteed.

[pat_k]

72. No doubt!

[Pinback]

51. GREAT statement from Shapiro

Some media types want the soap opera and “disarray” narratives. Josh lights the way for us to join him in a unified Democratic Party campaign.

Thanks for posting.

[pat_k]

73. +1

[Think. Again.]

36. How do you know he wanted it?

Maybe he wanted to support our candidate in the best way she sees fit.

[yardwork]

48. I agree. This wasn't a job posting.

The Democratic Party had to choose a VP in a very condensed time frame. Just because Shapiro was considered by Harris, and agreed to an interview, doesn't mean he really wanted the job.

Personally, I think it's possible that Shapiro didn't want it. I think he wants to be president one day, and a better path might be to excel as governor of PA and then run in 2032.

It's a conventional wisdom that VPs are set up to become president, but in recent years this doesn't always work. For every VP Biden and Harris, there's a Quayle or Pence.

Shapiro would have been second fiddle to a young, dynamic female president. Im not sure that would have been a strategic choice for him. He would have done it if asked, I'm sure.

[et tu]

25. my thoughts exactly

pa needs shapiro but an article from the hill tried
to conjure friction between big john and josh over the vp
issue just jaundice journalism and they are poking a bear
imho

[JI7]

7. This is making drama about a non issue

Both were honest about where they stood. This helped her make the decision for what she wanted.

[pat_k]

9. There are folks trying to make it a drama.

This struck.me as a good "it's pretty simple" article that provided insight on the process I hadn't seen elsewhere. YMMV.

[The Magistrate]

13. Until The Gentleman Says He Was, He Wasn't

"Can't nobody here play this game?"

[pat_k]

15. What heading would you have preferred?

The notion that selecting Walz was some sort of offensive passing over of Shapiro frustrates me --and was in my mind when I read this article. Sorry if my heading falls into the "Don't think of an elephant" category.

[The Magistrate]

17. Merely Commenting On The Situation, Sir

Not on your headline.

Journalists try and chum the water, it's what they do, and they've only got a few templates to use. Which is a problem when faced with something unexpected.


"You will not rise to the occasion. You will default to your level of training."

[pat_k]

18. Point taken.

[H2O Man]

20. Recommended.

I agree that the idea that Shapiro was "slighted" is being pushed by the republicans, and that they are trying to create divisions within our party. Just as they had planned on running against President Biden, since VP Harris became our nominee, they focused on Sgapiro. Thus, the overwhelming majority of their hurried opposition research focused on him.

What hasn't been mentioned publicly is that the maga campaign was aware of an issue that involves Shapiro that they planned to use against him. It involves a case from 2011 and the murder of Ellen Greenberg. The person believed to have killed her had an uncle who was a powerful attorney, who helped in the cover-up. The uncle was reportedly friends with Shapiro, although Shapiro has not verified this.

Her parents pursued the casse with the DA of Philly, who recused himself due to a relationship with the uncle, and sent the case to the state AG's office. Shapiro was then the AG. The case was sent back to the Philly DA. The parents of the victim now have the case scheduled to be heard by the state's Supreme Court.

The case had been gaining significant coverage on "true crime" programs. I can say that the NYTimes, CNN, and CBS had been collecting information on it, in case Shapiro was picked for VP. CBS released a prepared report yesterday:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/josh-shapiro-possible-vp-pick-legal-controversies/

In politics, even if what Shapiro did was 100% correct, being connected in even an innocent manner to a case that involves a cover-up and will continue to go on after the November election, would not be good for the ticket had VP Harris picked him.

[bsiebs]

46. Well that is interesting. Thanks for the post.

[yardwork]

52. I noticed that the immediate talking points against Walz seemed to have been prepared for Shapiro.

That created a very funny situation yesterday as Trump and Co claimed that mild mannered Walz would "unleash hell" for instance.

[H2O Man]

57. Right.

They were prepared to attack whoever VP Harris picked. They anticipated it would be Shapiro, and are very worried about PA. Next, they thought Kelly. They had less on Walz.

I had not mentioned the Greenberg case previously, though I'm verty familiar with it. (Ellen's parents have reetired investigator Tom Brennan working for them, relatively speaking!) What bugs me is that the media was prepared to try to smear Shapiro with it, rather than reporting on an injustice that reallt does not appear to involve him.

[yardwork]

59. The media is not on our side.

The media are owned by huge conglomerates run by billionaires. They have their thumb on the scales.

[H2O Man]

65. Absolutely!

[pat_k]

74. Before the interviews, the Greenberg case was. . .

. . .likely a concern. That's just a guess of course. No one in the campaign would relish seeing her parents on shows expressing anger at Shapiro over the outcome of his review (confirming suicide in a case where the "short story" makes that conclusion appear so unlikely). And with the state supreme court allowing the family's suit to go forward a few days ago, it would be in the news.

However, I think if she had felt the kind of connection with Shapiro that she did with Walz, her team might have concluded that that (and any other things on the "con" side) were manageable.

[H2O Man]

75. Could be.

[IronLionZion]

24. Republicans are trying to divide us with made up drama

I doubt Shapiro feels slighted at all. He was speaking prominently in yesterday's rally and PA needs him as governor. He might run for president himself some day

Walz is a good choice now.

[DownriverDem]

29. Shapiro would have

hurt Harris in SE Michigan.

[JI7]

42. Whitmer has little support there and she wins

[Cha]

94. Why? Would those in MI Vote Against Democracy? Or stay home and

still NOT helping Democracy?

[ColinC]

30. Walz doesn't want to run for president?

But what if I WANT him to run??? 😢

[yardwork]

56. Honestly, I can't imagine a worse job.

I'm in awe of people like Biden who do it so well.

[pinkstarburst]

70. I really love Walz already

But I also love the idea of an open primary the next time we need to have one. We have so many young, ambitious talented democrats coming up in the next generation and ideally, we need to let the voters decide.

[pat_k]

90. I know!

Time will tell. His students prompted him to run for Congress. Perhaps if enough voters give him a push...

First things first. Let's get them sworn in on January 20, 2025 (because you know it won't be over Nov 5, not matter how large the victory).

[TBF]

40. I don't think he was slighted - but there were "concerns" voiced repeatedly

here on DU about Michigan over a course of a few days. I will leave it at that.

I personally don't think it influenced Harris' decision - all accounts have agreed that she picked the person she felt most comfortable with. That is done at the executive level by folks all the time.

As far as Israel, I keep up with the more Centrist/Leftist publications like Haaretz and the Forward. Walz and Shapiro have voiced nearly identical positions about opposition to Bibi and both support a two-state solution. That may surprise some people, but it's true.

ETA -- Good article came into my mailbox today from JTA about Minnesota Jews and views on Walz (very positive!) --

Minnesota’s Jews celebrate as their ‘mensch’ Gov. Tim Walz enters the national spotlight
By Jackie Hajdenberg August 7, 2024 12:34 am

Since Walz was tapped as the Democratic vice-presidential nominee on Tuesday morning, Jewish conversations have been dominated by whether his selection, over Josh Shapiro, is a sign of antisemitism in the party.

But Walz’s Jewish constituents in Minnesota say their governor’s elevation means the ticket will have another candidate with strong ties to the Jewish community and a lengthy track record of support for Israel.

“It’s a good choice for those of us who care deeply about the American political scene for democracy, and it’s a good choice for those of us who care deeply about Israel,” said Morris Allen, rabbi emeritus at Beth Jacob Congregation, a Conservative synagogue in the suburbs of St. Paul-Minneapolis.

entire article here -

https://www.jta.org/2024/08/07/politics/minnesotas-jews-celebrate-as-their-mensch-gov-tim-walz-enters-the-national-spotlight?utm_source=JTA_Maropost&utm_campaign=JTA_DB&utm_medium=email&mpweb=1161-75781-1095486

[JI7]

43. Based on those concerns the Democrats should stop supporting gay rights

if they want to appeal to them.

[Voltaire2]

58. I need a USA pundit political jargon translator.

For example: ‘more moderate’ in World Standard Political Terminology is ‘center right’.

Communist socialist liberal progressive: are used interchangeably for anyone left of ‘center right’. If you aren’t a moderate democrat you are one of those, and in punditry any of those terms is interchangeable and pejorative.

Conservative: used to include ‘moderates in the republican party’ but there aren’t any of those left in office and likely not among reliable republican voters. It is now a mask for postmodern fascism. All republicans are conservative, even when they are endorsing murdering all the liberals and forcing women to bear children and abolishing democratic (nominally) elections.

[pat_k]

78. The "center" has moved so far right. . .

Nixon would be branded a flaming liberal.

Over the last three, maybe four decades, as the right has moved toward right-wingnut territory, Dems have tacked rightward to "broaden appeal.".

I am thrilled to see us plant our flag where it belongs. I think it is a true center that is more attractive than the watered down verbiage we see too often as we try to appeal to a warped notion of "centrist."

[Voltaire2]

79. Me too. Fork the punditacracy.

[Joinfortmill]

60. Walz was my guy!

[Nanjeanne]

64. I thought the article was a great way for me to understand the thinking that goes into the selection process.

I'm sure Kamala had a different set of criteria she was looking for than maybe someone else might have - and I'm glad to read a little about what that criteria was and how she looked at the candidates and what they could bring to HER campaign for President.

I'm thrilled she chose Walz and in her choosing him, she helped alleviate some of my concerns about the games of politics.

Brava, Kamala. You made the right choice for you (and, coincidentally for me

[elleng]

66. Very interesting, and illuminating.

[Klarkashton]

77. Trump is pushing this.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

84. There are reports that Senator Fetterman expressed some concerns about Shapiro

I am happy with Governor Walz and I agree with Kamala Harris' judgment

I just saw Senator Fetterman deny these reports on MSNBC but there may be reasons why Shapiro was not selected

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[pat_k]

92. As I said in reply to H2O's post above. . .

. . . in re: the Ellen Greenberg issue. Whatever Fetterman might have raised, I think it still came down to the interviews. I think if she had felt the kind of connection with Shapiro that she did with Walz, she and her team might well have concluded Fetterman's issue, whatever it was (and any other things on the "con" side) were manageable.

[totodeinhere]

86. Of course he wasn't slighted and neither was anyone else.

Someone had to be picked after all. And whoever wasn't chosen was not slighted. It's just that there is room for only two people on the ticket.

[meadowlander]

89. Winning the silver medal at the Olympics isn't a slight.

It's a tough competition that only one person could win.