More than 90 Palestinians killed in Israeli strike on school and mosque sheltering displaced people, Gaza officials say

[David__77]

At least 93 Palestinians have been killed in an Israeli strike on a school and mosque in Gaza sheltering displaced people, according to local officials.

…

Videos seen by CNN of the aftermath of the strike show a large number of bodies strewn on the ground. Witnesses said there was no advance warning of the attack.

“All of these people who were targeted were civilians, unarmed children, the elderly, men and women,” said Fares Afana, director of ambulance and emergency in northern Gaza.

…

Saturday’s strike is the fifth on a school in Gaza by the Israeli military since last Sunday, according to CNN’s previous reporting. The UN Human Rights Office earlier this week said it was “horrified by the unfolding pattern” of strikes on schools in Gaza, according to a statement on August 5th, adding that “such attacks are escalating.”

…

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2024/08/10/middleeast/israeli-school-strike-gaza-intl-hnk

[The Magistrate]

1. The Usual Bull-Shit

Hamas continues even at this late date to view Gaza's residents as so many sandbags to pile atop a dug-out roof.

Do you want the bombing to end?

Hamas can end it in an hour by freeing their captives and coming out hands up as prisoners of war.

If its leadership had the slightest concern for the well being of Gaza's people, that is what they would do. You know this as well as I do.

[David__77]

2. The thousands of children killed by Israel weren't sandbags.

[The Magistrate]

3. They Are To Hamas, Dear

You would do well to wrap your mind around that fact....

[whathehell]

52. and to you as well, "Dear"?

[regnaD kciN]

77. So, you see a pink triangle as someone's avatar...

…and, instead of the usual “sir,” he becomes “dear?”

Onto the block list with you!

[The Magistrate]

156. Probably Ought To Have Alerted On A Charge Of Bigotry, But Better To Leave The Forensic Bankruptcy Intact

There's never any ;point to defending against such nonesense.

[Oopsie Daisy]

183. You are correct, dear sir.

See? (Dear is not gendered.)

[Lonestarblue]

4. All Israel is accomplishing now with daily bombings on schools and mosques is murder.

I believe many Israelis do not support these murders of innocent civilians , but they seem incapable of doing anything to stop Netanyahu and his war crimes.

[Klarkashton]

5. Is any actual proof provided that there was an Hamas base

Operating in that school? Or is it taken on faith?

[The Magistrate]

6. Do You Take It On Faith There Was Not?

Is your root assumption there is no purpose but killing random persons behind Israel's military actions?

Have you seen anything about the actions of Hamas which leads you to regard with honest incredulity reports that the militant body had rallied gun-men in some location where children and elderly were also present?

[Klarkashton]

7. I asked a simple question

[The Magistrate]

11. And You Got Asked Two

So?

[Klarkashton]

13. I'm not on trial here. I asked a simple question.

[The Magistrate]

15. Good Lord, You Are More Entertaining Than The 'Wonder Woman' Rerun

That's a rare distinction, that is.

[Klarkashton]

16. I asked a question that you can't answer.

I respect that.
What's with your childish insults?

[The Magistrate]

19. And The Leading Question You Asked Was Met With Questions You Will Not Answer

I think we are all wearily familiar with the 'I'm just asking questions...' opening line.

[Klarkashton]

21. You have nothing of value to offer.

Just hyper defensive personal insults.

I'm blocking you.

[The Magistrate]

23. Good

[whathehell]

59. I think we're also all "wearily familiar" with the

immediate dismissal of anything criticizing IDF actions in Gaza.

[NickB79]

9. Hamas showed the world the depths of their depravity on Oct 7

By murdering, raping, and burning alive civilians, women, children, the elderly.

So it is not at all out of character for them to use women and children as human shields. That's what fundamentalist terrorists do when engaging in a holy war. And taking their word that they don't do these things is a fool's errand.

[Klarkashton]

10. Again, I asked a simple question.

[The Magistrate]

14. I'm Curious What The Point Of This Insistence Is: Are You Alone Allowed To Ask Questions?

[NickB79]

17. I've played this game for almost a year

I've posted articles where the IDF has literally found weapon stockpiles in schools and hospitals. AK's, mortars, RPG's.

And you know how multiple DUers have responded?

They've either tried to minimize it (oh, it's ONLY a few crates of high explosives in a children's ward, what's the big deal) or they've said they were planted by the IDF because they've convinced themselves that absolutely nothing from the IDF is ever true even when pictures and videos are provided.

If, after almost a year of this conflict, you've remained so blind to these news articles published by multiple sources, I can no longer help you.

[Klarkashton]

18. Have I done any of that?

No.

[The Magistrate]

20. Not Yet...

You haven't yet been given the opening you were looking for....


"The reason you can't teach an old dog new tricks is cause he known them all already."

[Klarkashton]

22. Lol

[regnaD kciN]

78. In other words: no, you don't have any proof.

[whathehell]

62. There are no "simple questions" on this thread, it seems

They're all just "openings" to scurrilous attack on All That Is Right and Good.

[ShazzieB]

66. There are no simple questions where deeply complex issues are involved.

[whathehell]

75. There are no simple questions

when some are avoiding answers.

[BannonsLiver]

80. And a metric ton of sanctimony, apparently.

[David__77]

26. Some people tried to justify My Lai by saying there were combatants there.

[The Magistrate]

30. And This Means Exactly What, Sir?

[Klarkashton]

37. I believe that My Lai was investigated thoroughly

After the fact. It was taken seriously that so many were killed.

[Beastly Boy]

33. In previous instances, there was actual proof.

Including names and ranks of the terrorists killed in each operation. Sent to the US authorities who verified the evidence. To their satisfaction.

Was there ever actual proof provided by anyone that there were only civilians present in that school? As far as I know, not a single media source has ever managed to independently verify the Hamas claims. Ever.

[Klarkashton]

34. You you don't know. That's ok.

Thanks for the information however.

[Beastly Boy]

36. Do YOU know? Apperently not.

Well, that's OK too.

What I know is that the US government knows. And they are satisfied with the evidence.

[Klarkashton]

38. That's why I asked the question.

You chose to answer with an non answer. That's ok.

[Beastly Boy]

40. I gave you the answer. Then I asked a question.

And I don't see any answers in your post. But I didn't expect any, so that's OK.

[Klarkashton]

41. This isn't a debate.

Have a nice day.

[Beastly Boy]

43. It never was, starting with your loaded question.

To which you got my answer. And, upon receiving it along with my own question, you wished me a nice day.

No, this looks nothing like a debate. I believe the term is "Quitting while you are behind".

[Klarkashton]

45. You obviously have nothing of value to add.

Instead of saying you don't know you went off on a riff. That's fine.
I'm blocking you.

[Beastly Boy]

46. I am getting suspicious of your notion of "value".

And how often you accuse others of having nothing of value to say, upon which you claim to block them.

I am detecting a pattern here...

[The Magistrate]

39. Never Saw Anyone So Obvious Thought Himself So Slick, Sir

I'll miss the chew-toy.

[ShazzieB]

67. LOLOL!

[Israeli]

96. Of course there was proof

and it was Hamas and Islamic Jihad

[Klarkashton]

113. Source?

[Israeli]

118. Sure

https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/idf-press-releases-regarding-the-hamas-israel-war/august-24-pr/19-terrorists-eliminated-in-a-mosque-in-al-taba-een-school-compound/

[TheKentuckian]

99. Does the day of the week not end in a "Y"?

How many times must the practice of Hamas using human shields and embedding in the civilian population have to be demonstrated for some to accept reality instead of absurdly feigning incredulity until having to tuck tail with some weak "both sides" jawjackng until they rinse repeat the tired, obviously ridiculous bullshit yet again with the same stupid crocodile tears.

You know good and well what the motherfuckers are doing and to keep on keeping on trying to run interference at this point is fucking putrid and gives the terrorists aid and comfort.

[Klarkashton]

112. Please send a link to the proof.

[Nanjeanne]

8. Horrific.

[malaise]

12. 60 more are missing

This is genocide

[Beastly Boy]

42. Will you ever get to looking up the definition of the word?

[The Magistrate]

44. One Of The Reasons I Mostly Steer Shy Of This Matter, Sir

Is that sooner or later it turns my mind to what would be the immediate targets, and what weapons would be employed, were it actually Israel's intent to simply kill as many people there as they could. It's not a pleasant exercise, and one I suspect I ought not over-indulge in.


"'To understand all is to pardon all' is the Devil's sentimentality."

[betsuni]

47. And the definition of the words "freedom fighter" and "terrorist."

[kansasobama]

24. Netanyahu is doing everything to help Trump

Netanyahu knows this will make some Arab Americans to protest against Biden policy, letting Trump free to not speak up. Arab Americans have to realize that the only peace possible is through Biden's efforts. It will not happen till after elections after a Harris win. If Trump wins, no peace deal.

[ShazzieB]

68. Right you are.

IF Trump were to win, that would be Bibi's cue to pull out all the stops and show the world what genocide really is.

Two state solution? What two states? There would be nothing left of the Palestinians when Bibi got through.The involvement of the U.S. is one of the few things that's stopping him. I just wish more people could see that.

[Rob H.]

69. "The involvement of the U.S. is one of the few things that's stopping him."

Not really, because the US is still funding them and providing weaponry, unless the strategy is to give Israel weapons we know they’ll use in the hope they won’t actually use them.

[ShazzieB]

71. I'm talking about stuff that's going on behind the scenes. You know, diplomacy.

I'm not thrilled myself that the U.S. is still helping to provide Israel with weapons, but our government is also working very hard, with the help of some of Israel's neighbors and others, to broker a ceasefire.

Here's the problem: the only real solution to this mess is a two state solution, which neither Hamas OR Netanyahu want. I believe the only reason Bibi is even pretending to try to work towards peace is because he knows he can't afford to completely alienate the U.S. If it wasn't for that and constant behind the scenes efforts from Biden and Secretary Blinken, I strongly suspect that things would be even worse over there.

If Trump gets elected, he'll be fine with whatever Bibi wants to do, and he'll sit back and smile benevolently while Bibi takes possession of Gaza, steps up the settlements in the left bank, and wipes out the Palestinians completely.

And no, I can't prove all of this (except the part about Trump giving Bibi free rein, which he has been very clear about), but when I put all the pieces together, that's the picture I see. YMMV, and obviously does.

[Rob H.]

72. Ah, I gotcha

And you and I definitely on the same page.

[ShazzieB]

73. Oh, good!

Very happy to hear it!

[regnaD kciN]

79. Trump has said "we need to let Israel finish the job"...

…and there’s really little doubt what “finishing the job” means.

[The Magistrate]

25. You Know, Sir, if You Want To Come Back To This Bit Of Flame-Bait, You Could Make a Milestone Rating

There is, as you may possibly have noticed, an election in progress, on which the question of democracy itself turns....

[David__77]

27. The inclusion of "flame" in your comment is interesting given the many deaths in a firestorm.

[The Magistrate]

28. And Here I Thought You Knew Enough To Reference The Old F.L.A.M.E Screeds...

I can live with the disappointment, I've known a good many.

[muriel_volestrangler]

48. Wow. You're classing CNN reports as "flame-bait".

What has happened to you?

And what has a CNN report on Gaza to do with "an election in progress, on which the question of democracy itself turns"? This looks like a massive red herring. Are you trying to stop discussion of the Israeli bombing of Gaza?

[The Magistrate]

50. I Am As I Always Was, Sir

People trying to use Gaza to divide Democrats, to wedge various elements of our coalition apart, I regard as a left auxiliary to the christo-fascist reactionary right. I do not take for granted claims of humanitarian concern, and observe much catapulting of Hamas propaganda lines.

[The Magistrate]

53. Is That Supposed To Impress Me? CNN Quotes Hamas Spokespeople?

That hardly counts as verification of the narrative they present, any more than CNN quoting Trump statements about our candidate's character makes them true.

[Rob H.]

63. "What has happened to you?"

You’re generously assuming this is the actual poster and not someone else using their account.

[The Magistrate]

64. I Do Not Say Things I Do Not Stand By, Sir

[Rob H.]

65. That's not what I said nt

[DFab420]

29. Any official in Gaza is a member of Hamas lest we forget

[whathehell]

54. Your statement may need a sarcasm thingy

on this thread.

[DeepWinter]

130. Not sarcasm

Not sarcasm. Any official in Gaza is Hama or pro-Hamas. They don't give the slightest care about any Palestinian life. Palestinian children are expendable to the political goal in their eyes.

Trashing this pro-Hamas thread.

[whathehell]

134. Trash away.

Opposing a non-stop slaughter of civilians in Gaza by the IDF does not equal support for Hamas. Suggesting otherwise is nothing more than a facile, knee jerk response.

[BannonsLiver]

31. I don't think the attempts at sowing division are going to work.

Last edited Sat Aug 10, 2024, 09:59 PM - Edit history (1)

[The Magistrate]

32. I Agree, It's A Tapped Out Seam

People with genuine humanitarian concern would be demanding Hamas free all captives and down arms as stridently and strenuously as they demand Israel cease military operations in Gaza.

[muriel_volestrangler]

49. What "division"?

This is a Democratic Party-supporting website, not a Netanhayu one.

[whathehell]

56. Thank you..

[The Magistrate]

58. And No One Here Supports Him

Recognizing that people willing to chant 'Genocide Joe' and 'Kamala you can't hide! We accuse you of genocide!' are not on the side of the Democratic Party and it's current candidates has nothing to do with Netanyahu. Much as people to like to claim any either/or choice is a logical fallacy, the impending election is a binary choice, between the possibility of democracy and the reality of impending fascism. Crying up Gaza has some potential to reduce our voting strength, and I consider that the aim of those who do so, whether they are posting here or elsewhere.

[muriel_volestrangler]

60. Don't be too sure about that - bombing Palestinians is surprisingly well-supported here

The CNN report does not feature "people willing to chant 'Genocide Joe' and 'Kamala you can't hide! We accuse you of genocide!'" . So why whine when there's news from Gaza? Why assume that it's about Americans, let alone Democrats? Get a sense of perspective. You used to have one. This bombing was the top BBC story this morning. Perhaps you are amazed that they reported it without once mentioning Americans.

By the way, the "impending fascism" side of your election is the one that is AOK with the tens of thousands of dead Palestinians. And Netanhayu is a Trump supporter. Pointing out the numbers of people that Trump supporters are killing is actually a Good Thing on a Democratic site - it's yet another reason to vote for Democrats. Why you think it would divide you from people who deplore the deaths is a mystery.

[The Magistrate]

61. What On Earth Are You Talking About?

"Say something once, why say it again?"

[BannonsLiver]

76. Division when it comes to this election.

[whathehell]

55. Especially if they are "sewing" them

Last edited Sat Aug 10, 2024, 03:11 PM - Edit history (1)

rather than "sowing" them.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

[David__77]

74. We can unite in opposing these actions.

[orthoclad]

57. Genocide, using US weapons.

[Mountainguy]

70. Funny that its always a Hamas offcial claiming

That they were targeting old women and babies.

[BannonsLiver]

82. No Hamas are "freedom fighters just like Mandela."

[Israeli]

97. There is only one Mandela

for the Palestinians and he is not a member of Hamas or Islamic Jihad .
His name is Marwan Barghouti .
Hamas are trying to make his release conditional on a cease fire so that he can
replace them in Gaza.

[claudette]

81. 🥲

Murder of innocents

[LexVegas]

83. Hamas has a hell of a propaganda machine. nt

[David__77]

84. 'Yet again, far too many civilians have been killed': Harris criticizes IDF Gaza strike

Reiterating earlier criticism by the White House and by many countries, US Vice President and Democratic presidential candidate Kamala Harris denounces alleged harm to Palestinian civilians after Gaza Strip’s Hamas-run civil defense agency claimed over 90 people were killed in the airstrike, describing the incident as a “horrific massacre.”

“Yet again, far too many civilians have been killed,” Harris tells reporters, while also reiterating calls for a Gaza ceasefire.

…

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/yet-again-far-too-many-civilians-have-been-killed-harris-criticizes-idf-gaza-strike/

[Tarc]

85. "Gaza officials say"

i.e. Hamas

Not to be trusted.

[David__77]

86. 'Yet again, far too many civilians have been killed': Harris criticizes IDF Gaza strike

Reiterating earlier criticism by the White House and by many countries, US Vice President and Democratic presidential candidate Kamala Harris denounces alleged harm to Palestinian civilians after Gaza Strip’s Hamas-run civil defense agency claimed over 90 people were killed in the airstrike, describing the incident as a “horrific massacre.”

“Yet again, far too many civilians have been killed,” Harris tells reporters, while also reiterating calls for a Gaza ceasefire.

…

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/yet-again-far-too-many-civilians-have-been-killed-harris-criticizes-idf-gaza-strike/

[soandso]

100. Empty words

Not just from Harris but lots of people in our government. It's reached the point where it's fair to say US officials speak with a forked tongue. On the one hand we hear there are too many civilians being killed and maimed and on the other it's constantly repeated that the US will keep supporting Israel and even defend them (whatever that means) in a war with Iran! We've heard lots of criticisms of Netanyahu and warnings about "red lines" being crossed but then we're told those red lines haven't been crossed - even with Gaza destroyed and tens of thousands dead. I'm sick of the double talk. What, exactly, are these red lines???

It MUST be admitted that this situation is at an impasse. Tell the fucking truth and maybe then some kind of outside of the box thinking will emerge. I don't know what the answers are but the status quo is going nowhere. Hamas is terrible and what's being done to innocents in both Gaza and the West Bank is terrible. Neither side is going to budge and the more Palestinians killed and maimed, the more Hamas or some other group of resistance will grow, including in places like Yemen. Unless they kill everybody, Israel can never get rid of angry resistance because of what they're doing. Iran will keep funding and supplying Hezbollah and the US will keep funding and supplying Israel (who can afford to pay for it's own damn wars, btw). US involvement has to end. This is almost a proxy war with Iran, at this point, and the US is already deeply involved in a proxy war with Russia. Aside from all of the death and destruction, this is not good for our own country.

[Tarc]

190. "alleged"

That word was purposefully spoken.

[AloeVera]

87. Perhaps you can believe your own eyes and ears, if you dare to look and listen.

Plenty of video evidence of the actual scenes of carnage. Real people showing grief and horror. Holding up a dead kid missing his upper torso and head. Hard to say what's worse, the images or the inhuman sounds of abject, inconsolable grief and horror.

[Tarc]

189. Crisis actors

[AloeVera]

194. Nice Parody.

Of course there are those, like the despicable Alex Jones, who will mock and try to question and discredit the horrible suffering of others, like the parents of Sandy Hook.

But he is scum, so there is that.

[Klarkashton]

114. "IDF says"

[Tarc]

191. Yes, members of the military of the nation we are long allied with

I'm glad you recognize that.

You're making progress.

[bdamomma]

88. Netanyahu

is no different from Putin invading the civilian population. Any way to stay of a prison.

[AloeVera]

89. It's not just him.

He has plenty support.

[bdamomma]

90. Oh I bet

he does. He's a criminal too.

[Mosby]

91. Hamas lowered their claimed death toll to 40, 19 identified by Israel as Hamas members

Link to tweet

All the major media outlets reported the earlier number right after the incident. They must know that no one could have determined the total casualty numbers that quickly, and yet they keep publishing these fake casualty numbers fed to them by Hamas. Seems like piss poor journalism, or something else.

[betsuni]

92. Thank you.

[David__77]

105. That headline was admitted to be an error.

“(Corrects in trashline to show Bloomberg reported an outdated death-toll estimate, not a revised one.)”

https://archive.is/lh5GI

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-08-10/israel-strike-on-gaza-school-kills-100-palestinians-hamas-says

[AloeVera]

93. Classic Xitter disinfo.

Read the comments.

The Gaza Health Ministry - that you refer to as Hamas- has not revised the death toll. No one is reporting that. I can't access Bloomberg fully, but even the truncated section differs from what is in the Xitter post. No mention of revised figures in the bullet point highlights at the top.

Take a look.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-08-10/israel-strike-on-gaza-school-kills-100-palestinians-hamas-says?embedded-checkout=true

[Mosby]

94. I'll look around tomorrow, but my point is valid.

There is no way that they could ascertain casualty figures so quickly, like with natural disasters and mass shootings, it takes time, sometimes days to determine the death toll. Just looking around major media for a few minutes now, I see claims of 80, 90 or 100. They aren't even reporting the same number.

Eta the Palestinian Health Ministry is reporting 100 casualties.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO2408/S00092/statement-from-the-gaza-ministry-of-health.htm

CBS says 80, and the article has been updated.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-gaza-airstrike-mosque-hamas/

[Israeli]

98. Bottom line Mosby

you either trust the Shin Bet's information or Hamas's propaganda.........

Amid global criticism, Israel names 19 it says it killed in terror HQ at Gaza school

White House ‘deeply concerned’ by strike; Egypt, Qatar fume; top EU diplomat slams unjustified ‘massacres’; IDF dismisses Hamas claim 90 killed, says no major damage to school complex

The IDF and Shin Bet security agency on Saturday night named 19 Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad terror operatives that it said it killed in an airstrike Saturday morning on a Hamas and Islamic Jihad command room at the Taba’een school in Gaza City.

The Gaza Strip’s Hamas-run civil defense agency claimed over 90 people were killed in the airstrike, describing the incident as a “horrific massacre.” Several Western diplomats, the Egyptian and Qatari mediators of ceasefire-for-hostage talks and numerous Muslim countries denounced Israel over the airstrike.

The White House said it was “deeply concerned” about the airstrike and was seeking further details. It said far too many civilians continue to be killed in the Gaza war.

a Hamas-Islamic Jihad command room at a school complex in Gaza City. (Israel Defense Forces)
The IDF and Shin Bet security agency on Saturday night named 19 Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad terror operatives that it said it killed in an airstrike Saturday morning on a Hamas and Islamic Jihad command room at the Taba’een school in Gaza City.

The Gaza Strip’s Hamas-run civil defense agency claimed over 90 people were killed in the airstrike, describing the incident as a “horrific massacre.” Several Western diplomats, the Egyptian and Qatari mediators of ceasefire-for-hostage talks and numerous Muslim countries denounced Israel over the airstrike.

The White House said it was “deeply concerned” about the airstrike and was seeking further details. It said far too many civilians continue to be killed in the Gaza war.

“We know Hamas has been using schools as locations to gather and operate out of, but we have also said repeatedly and consistently that Israel must take measures to minimize civilian harm,” said a statement issued by National Security Council spokesperson Sean Savett.

“Yet again, far too many civilians have been killed,” US Vice President and Democratic presidential candidate Kamala Harris told reporters separately on Saturday while also reiterating calls for a Gaza ceasefire.

According to the IDF, the strike was carried out using three “precision munitions” against the two terror groups’ command room embedded within a mosque at the Taba’een school complex.

The military said that footage from after the strike showed that there was no major damage to the surrounding school complex. It also said that the missiles “could not have caused the damage that corresponds to the casualty reports of the government media office in Gaza.”

Continued @
https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-slammed-globally-after-hamas-claims-at-least-90-dead-in-strike-on-gaza-school/

[AloeVera]

102. Bottom line, Israeli...

Is that Shin Bet and the IDF knew the time of Fadr - the Muslim pre-dawn prayer - and chose to hit the mosque in the school at that precise time.

Why?

The strike hit without warning in the early morning before sunrise as people were praying at a mosque inside the school, according to Abu Anas, a witness who worked to rescue people.

“There were people praying, there were people washing and there were people upstairs sleeping, including children, women and old people,” he said. “The missile fell on them without warning. The first missile, and the second. We recovered them as body parts.”

Three missiles ripped through the school and the mosque inside, where about 6,000 displaced people were taking shelter from the war, said Mahmoud Bassal, a spokesperson for the Civil Defense first responders who operate under the Hamas-run local government.

Many of the dead were unrecognizable, he said, adding that he expected the death toll to rise. Many of the casualties were women and children, he said.

In a report issued Monday, the U.N. Human Rights Office said there were at least 17 attacks on schools in the previous month — seven of them in the previous eight days alone — that reportedly killed 163 people, many of them women and children. Many of the schools were serving as shelters, the report said, adding that Israel has a duty under international law to provide safe shelter for the displaced.

“There’s no justification for these massacres,” EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said in a statement posted on the social media platform X, in reference to the strikes on schools.

The U.N. said that as of July 6, 477 out of 564 schools in Gaza had been directly hit or damaged in the war.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/08/10/israel-gaza-airstrike-school-00173500

[Israeli]

106. Duh

That's how they got 19 of them in one place together.

[AloeVera]

109. Oh I knew the answer...

Just wanted to see how you would respond.

Sadly you responded as I feared.

And that right there is what is horribly wrong with how Israel's waging this so-called "war". No regard for civilian lives.

[Israeli]

120. I knew you knew the answer

What were your "" secular "" friends doing in a mosque in a school compound ????????????????

[AloeVera]

122. You have no answer so you resort to ridicule...

Nice.

[Israeli]

123. Nu seriously

no ridicule intended

so I ask once again , nicely .....pretty please

What were your "" secular "" friends doing in a mosque in a school compound ????????????????

[AloeVera]

125. I have no clue why you keep asking the same nonsensical question.

Relax, go for a walk. Have a nice day.

[Beastly Boy]

127. Having no answer to the question doesn't make it nonsensical.

The question has much broader implications: what are Hamas militants doing in civilian structures protected by the Fourth Geneva Convention where the militants don't belong? Don't they know they are committing war crimes?

The question makes perfect sense. And in the absence of a plausible answer, it may indeed be a good idea to relax and go for a walk.

[Israeli]

145. Well duh

I wanted an answer .

Its ok ....forget about it .....I know why they were there as did the Shabak

[AloeVera]

150. Your question contained a reference that tells me...

You are not entirely asking the question in good faith, while having fun at what you think is at my expense. Hilarious. Unserious.

My non-response was intended to make a point about respectful discourse.

But since you are so eager for my opinion...

I can't think of a single reason why Muslims would be in the prayer room of a mosque at the time of Fadr or dawn prayer. Can you?

I also can't think of a good reason why, with all that amazing high-tech intelligence available to the Shabak, the IDF chose to bomb the prayer room of a mosque when it knew it would be full of civilians at prayer. Including women and children in the prayer room above.

Your answer to that as I recall, was to impolitely say that was the best way to get all the terrorists in one room. Again, I ask, with all that amazing high-tech intelligence, surely there were other ways than to ignore all principles of distinction and proportionality and cause such carnage?

I don't see good reasons so I am leaning towards bad ones. Combined with the many other recent attacks on schools and camps for the displaced, the message seems to be "no safe place in Gaza. Get out or die". What would that be called?

[Israeli]

179. What reference would that be ?

You were the one that described Hamas as secular .
Never read such absolute nonsense during all my years on here .
Then you called Ismail Haniyeh a moderate !!!!
What planet are you living on ?

You keep defending Hamas therefore I define you as a friend of Hamas .

As I already stated..... "you either trust the Shin Bet's information or Hamas's propaganda."
also I believe what the IDF states here :

These terrorists operated to advance and carry out attacks against IDF soldiers and the State of Israel from inside the compound.

The strike was carried out using three precise munitions, which, according to professional analysis, can not cause the amount of damage that is being reported by the Hamas-run Government Information Office in Gaza. Furthermore, no severe damage was caused to the compound where the terrorists were situated.

Prior to the strike, numerous steps were taken to mitigate the risk of harming civilians, including the use of a small warhead, aerial surveillance, and intelligence information.

The Hamas terrorist organization systematically violates international law and operates from within civilian infrastructure and shelters, brutally exploiting the civilian population and institutions as human shields for their terror activities.

Source : https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/idf-press-releases-regarding-the-hamas-israel-war/august-24-pr/19-terrorists-eliminated-in-a-mosque-in-al-taba-een-school-compound/

[AloeVera]

186. Of course you did.

So you repeated once again a mistake I made, which I had already acknowledged as an absent-minded error. I told you I meant nationalist - in the context of comparison to ISIS as I recall. And you keep using that mistake to discredit and ridicule. It's not a good look for you and tells me all I need to know about you.

Same with Haniyeh. You know the context and the air quotes.

So you don't fight fair.

Three missiles into a packed prayer hall housing families and the men's chapel below at the precise moment of the Dawn Prayer.

Yet you believe the IDF.

What planet are YOU from?

A view from the other side:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2024/8/13/just-civilians-families-of-gaza-school-strike-victims-refute-hamas-links

[Israeli]

197. If nobody had called you out on

your " mistakes " you wouldnt be backtracking like you are now .

you know nothing about me

here is a taste

my kibbutz lost a son of the kibbutz on October the 7th ....while he was defending kibbutz Be'eri where he was a member.
Thankfully his wife and children survived .
His mother , one of my close friends , had already lost a brother during the Yom Kippur war .
Doubt you will get the significance of that .
I lost numerous friends of my age , all Leftist kibbutzniks that had fought for years for the rights of Palestinians and against
our right wing religious crazies .
Add to that Ive lost five members of my extended family since this war began .
My son was seriously wounded in Gaza , recovered and has been called up again .
Ive been to so many funerals and sat so many shivas in the last 10 months ive lost count .

Its not just that you dont know me .....you know nothing about us at all ...you tar us all with the same brush .
yes our religious right wing messianic madmen led by Ben Gvir and his ilk would take over Gaza given the chance
just like they have done in the Wild West Bank .

I have no faith or trust in this government and I hate Bibi more than you do .....yet I believe in the IDF .

Hamas are not freedom fighters . they are not secular or moderate .....this is who they are :

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-811143

[AloeVera]

198. Thank you for sharing that, it could not have been easy.

I read it with shock and dismay. My sincerest condolences on your terrible losses. I don't have the right words to convey how very sorry I am about what you, your friends, family and fellow kibbutzniks have been through. I cannot fully process that level of loss and shock but I extend all human solidarity, sympathy as well as my wishes for protection and safety to you and yours. And to all Israeli people and people of the region.

I think I can understand what it must seem like to you, to listen to some uninvolved, "un-educated", un-sympathetic stranger on the internet pontificating, criticizing and casting doubt on the IDF, or Israel or any other institution or fabric of Israeli life you hold dear and rely on to protect you from further harm. There must be a few choice names that you'd like to call me and perhaps you do. That's OK. (Just please no more mocking about the "secular incident". I don't claim to be a great intellect, and in this case my brain certainly failed me. I relied on someone else's analysis without engaging my own brain. Yes, I tried to cover it up - it seemed easier than trying to explain someone else's convoluted thinking - which you somehow knew and then mocked me for my dishonesty. But now that I've come clean I hope we can put it behind us).

As for Hamas, I know who they are. As a fundamentalist Islamist ideology, they are no good for anyone in the region. I was dismayed at how they won over the Palestinians, who were truly more secular (yikes) before Hamas. But here is the thing and you might disagree. Criticism of Israel's tactics and policies in war, or before the war, are my own opinion, formed many years ago. The fact that they intersect at some points with the same criticism that Hamas makes - doesn't make me a Hamas-lover or a tool or idiot or any other pejorative favoured on this site.

I have been humbled by your post and I thank you again. I hope we will "talk" in future.

[Beastly Boy]

115. The video below shows the mosque standing and undamaged after the strike:

Last edited Mon Aug 12, 2024, 09:48 AM - Edit history (1)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/israeli-airstrike-gaza-school-turned-235458572.html

(at the 1:27 mark)

Does your source know WTF they are talking about?

[AloeVera]

132. Video unavailable in my region.

But I've seen a video of the school after the strike. Helpfully provided by the IDF.

Any idea why they would not provide video of the actual three strikes on the school? Not just the purported aftermath?

[Beastly Boy]

136. Would you settle for aerial photos? After all, IDF doesn't specialize in event videography.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-slammed-globally-after-hamas-claims-at-least-90-dead-in-strike-on-gaza-school/


?_gl=1*1l6ygh8*_ga*OTM0NDQ0NjM4LjE3MjMyNTIyNTU.*_ga_RJR2XWQR34*MTcyMzQ2MzEwNy4yMC4xLjE3MjM0NzkwMzEuMC4wLjA.


And the photos of the exterior and the interior of the compound clearly show it largely intact with the exception of a relatively small target area identifiable by the burn marks on the second floor of the compound. Helpfully provided by independent media outlets.


https://live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au/3139299e008b22817788d4bf911b939c?impolicy=wcms_crop_resize&cropH=2813&cropW=5000&xPos=0&yPos=189&width=862&height=485

https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-560w,f_avif,q_auto:eco,dpr_2/rockcms/2024-08/240810-gaza-chool-ch-1300-ea26e1.jpg

[David__77]

104. The "revised" headline was admitted to be an error.

“(Corrects in trashline to show Bloomberg reported an outdated death-toll estimate, not a revised one.)”

https://archive.is/lh5GI

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-08-10/israel-strike-on-gaza-school-kills-100-palestinians-hamas-says

[Beastly Boy]

110. The outdated death toll estimate was "at least" 100

The revised death toll estimate stands at "over 90",

As per the Hamas-run "health agency". Hamas revised it downwards.

[Mosby]

116. Hen Mazzig worked up the whole timeline

Hi friends in the media, I know you’re tired so I did your job for you:

05:00- Israel target Hamas terrorists hiding at the Al-Tabeen compound.

05:20 - Hamas Health Ministry announce that 40 martyrs were killed.

05:40 - Hamas sees an opportunity to inflate the numbers and sends another message saying 100 martyrs were killed.

07:00 - First media report claims the IDF killed over 100 in a school.

08:00 - Condemnations from every country and politician, all sharing Hamas' numbers.

12:00 - Western media extensively covers a major attack on a school, allegedly killing hundreds, once again sharing Hamas' information and not distinguishing between armed Hamas men and civilians.

17:00 - CNN publishes an article with the headline “More than 90 Palestinians killed in Israeli strike on a school and mosque.” You have to read to the last line, after nine paragraphs, to find that these numbers cannot be verified. This was Hamas’ intention hiding in a school compound to have a headline like this spread.

18:00 - Israel publishes the list of the 19 terrorists killed in the strike, proving that one room in the complex was being used as a Hamas control center.

19:00 - Hamas revises the number from 100 to 40.

20:00 - Israel releases images of the strike, proving it was extremely precise, with munitions that could not have blown up a school and a mosque. Only the room with the terrorists hiding in it was hit. School was not in session.

Once again, Hamas has lied and manipulate Western media and world leaders. And once again, sadly, they played all of us perfectly.

Link to tweet

[Beastly Boy]

117. Thanks. That should spare a lot of tedious searching for everyone.

Not that everyone cares for doing any tedious searching before spreading bullshit.

[AloeVera]

126. Lol. HEN MAZZIG HAS SPOKEN, Debate is over.

19:00 - Hamas revises the number from 100 to 40.

Evidence?

This would make about as much sense as you becoming a Hamas supporter.

But let's just take Hen's word for it. Case closed.

[Beastly Boy]

128. Wherre is the evidence for 100?

Whose word for it are you proposing to take? The Hamas health authority?

...Oh wait, that's exactly what you are proposing.

Now that's funny!

[AloeVera]

129. I pointed out the critical flaw in Hen's timeline.

What's your answer on that? Where is the communication from Hamas revising the death toll from 100 to 40 - more than 12 hours after the strike?

Balderdash.

Prove me wrong.

[Beastly Boy]

135. I am ok with you doubting unverifiable data.

But hell, you are so blatantly selective in your choice of unverifiable data to doubt!

How many times did you use the Hamas unverifiable data, never questioning the multitude of identically critical flaws in theirs? Frankly, I lost count.

Case in point: Hamas' claim of 100 dead in the strike, with the implicit presumption that they are all civilians, which you are taking for granted. Do you not consider it an equally critical flaw in their reporting?

What in the world justifies your unquestioned confidence in their numbers vs Hen's timeline? The two have equal standing in claiming to be accurate, so why do you only want proof of Hen's timeline? If you reject one, it is highly hypocritical yo accept the other.

In anticipation of your objections: I don't insist that Hen's timeline is accurate in its entirety. Certainly most of it is, and that is verifiable. In this respect, his tweet is far more accurate than the number of casualties reported by the Hamas health authority, which is unverifiable in its entirety. It is not an on or off switch, it is a dimmer: a matter of whose data sheds more light on the incident. Making an informed judgement based on the preponderance of evidence alone, Hen's beats Hamas' hands down.

[AloeVera]

137. Patently false. There is no equivalent standing. Absurd.

A guy on Xitter who was nowhere near the scene and is blatantly pro-Israel, measured against eyewitnesses, victims, CNN witness of the aftermath, and the Director of the Hospital who says the hospital received 70 bodies - plus at least 10 in BODY PARTS ONLY, the many images and videos of the carnage.

No contest.

Further reinforced by the fact that the guy on Xitter clearly made up something that never happened (the revision by Hamas from 100 to 40).

Hey, did you ever find proof for that claim? You won't. It's false. As is much of his account.

It's funny to me that pro-Pal people are accused of "falling for propaganda" when the accusers themselves fall for propaganda accounts like Hen Mazzig.

[Beastly Boy]

138. Well, you just amply illustrated my point.

Of course there is no equivalent standing, but not in the way you suggest.

Most of the content of the blatantly pro-Israel guy on Twitter checks out by the established facts. And your ciaim of the one thing you think he made up is debatable, as is your your claim itself.

Compare that to the unverified accounts of a Hamas ministry and a Hamas employee at the hospital. That's a notch less legitimate that the blatantly pro-Israel guy on Xitter. Now, what would you say under different circumstances? Oh yeah, no evidence. Well, If you ever find proof of their claims, don't hesitate to get back to me. Until then, live by the sword, die by the sword.

And yeah, IDF identified at least 30 terrorists they eliminated, so I wouldn't be surprised to learn there are at least 10 in body parts, give or take 20.

Not even close. But a brave, if failed, effort.

BTW, did you see this evidence you requested earlier?
https://democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19323862

Since you didn't respond with excuses, I am assuming you are satisfied with it.

[AloeVera]

139. I don't have time to respond to everything immediately.

When I do, I do.

The Twitter guy simply rehashed and barraged with known facts and semi-truths and then inserted a falsehood he thought would not be noticed among the barrage. So no credibility whatsoever.

You might want to think why it is that, for some reason, the Israeli side thinks "only" 20 dead civilians is a good thing. And why it feels it necessary to alwaysctry to discredit the figures provided by the doctors on the scene. All of this discrediting of doctors as "Hamas" is so convenient for people who don't want to face the ugly reality of Israel's actions and war crimes. Sad.

Oh and now it's up to 30 Hamas? Yesterday it was 19. Tomorrow it might be 40 and NO CIVILIANS WERE KILLED. I REPEAT, NO CIVILIANS WERE KILLED.

[Beastly Boy]

140. I don't recall Hamas baraging us with known facts, do you?

Are you seriously expecting Hamas employees of the Hamas-run hospital to be any different? And yes, deny it or not, any affiliation with Hamas, voluntary or not, severely compromises the credibility of doctors employed by Hamas.

Make them a couple of notches below the credibility of the blatantly pro-Israel guy on Xitter. Is there such thing as negative credibility? If not, your credibility scale can use some serious adjustments.

20 dead civilians is a very, very bad thing. Does it ever bother you that armed criminals being hunted by IDF habitually hide among them making it inevitable that a lot of them are going to be killed when IDF comes after the murdering SOBs? Wouldn't it be nice of the Hamas terrorists to leave the civilians the hell out of their insane pursuit of of Heavenly Glory, or at least asked them politely whether they mind becoming martyrs for their bloodthirsty cause? For some inexplicable reason, this obvious move that would guarantee the lives and safety of tens of thousands Gazan civilians doesn't occur to Hamas apologists. Or so it appears. But don't worry, these are all rhetorical questions, and I don't expect any answers.

And let me bring you up to date:

IDF names another 12 Hamas, Islamic Jihad terrorists killed in Gaza school strike
Statement brings number of confirmed terror operatives killed to 31; Hamas officials say 75 bodies out of at least 93 have been identified in Gaza following the airstrike

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-names-another-12-hamas-islamic-jihad-terrorists-killed-in-gaza-school-strike/

So IDF identified 31 bodies as being terrorists, photos, ranks and all, and Hamas officials say, without any evidence, that 75 out of 93 bodies were identified. So Hamas indeed reduced their death estimate to 93 from 100, 31 of them being identified by IDF as known terrorists and 17 of them not being identified as either civilians or terrorists. That makes 45 dead identified as civilians.

That crazy lie from the blatantly pro-Israel guy on Xitter is getting awfully close to being accurate, no?

[AloeVera]

144. People in pieces - a hand, a foot, some intestines - are hard to identify and count.

Israel deployed munitions that cut people in pieces and burned them alive. Makes counting kind of hard. Under the circumstances, the revisions are not hard to understand. But some will latch onto that as some kind of 'gotcha.

So did "Hamas" publish a list of names of the dead? (I use quotes because of course it's the Gaza Ministry of Health). Share them with the IDF? I'm curious how the IDF was able to identify these terrorists as having been killed. And what proof did they provide that indeed these people were terrorists? I have read that there was a university professor, a kid from the West Bank and two people who had already been killed before this. And a couple of old guys and some anti-Hamas people.

As I said before, by tomorrow it will be 40 Hamas killed and we will be hearing THERE WERE NO CIVILIAN CASUALTIES. I REPEAT, NO CIVILIAN CASUALTIES! It would be hilarious if it weren't for the circumstances.

What proof does the IDF provide that there was military activity going on there? Any shred of evidence at all? We just take their word for it? For Israel's sake I hop they can provide evidence of direct military attacks coming from that school, otherwise - war crime.

Do you ever ask these kinds of questions or just faithfully believe and parrot whatever the IDF tells you?

It seems you misunderstood - willfully or not - the claim by the blatantly pro-Israel guy Hen Mazzig. He said that Hamas, at 7 p.m. that day, reduced the number of dead from 100 to 40 - a blatant lie, that never happened - but that's not my focus here. In trying to bolster Hen's credibility, you kind of tripped over yourself here. As you know by now, and like to repeat when it suits your narrative, Hamas does not make a distinction between civilian and combatant casualties. So why would you assume they did that here? I can only surmise it's because it works for you in this particular instance. But it's neither consistent or honest.

Good night.

[Israeli]

146. :chuckle:

What proof does the IDF provide that there was military activity going on there? Any shred of evidence at all? We just take their word for it? For Israel's sake I hop they can provide evidence of direct military attacks coming from that school, otherwise - war crime.

The shin bet ( Shabak ) gather their info in many ways including interrogation of prisoners and paying informants inside Gaza .
Their high tech unit is amazing .
What they have will be shared with Blinken during his visit today .

Also have a read of these two links :

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/report-hamas-courier-gave-intel-on-deifs-location-leading-to-israeli-airstrike-that-killed-him/

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-811143

..............

[Israeli]

180. No answer again

Did you bother to read my two links ??

I read that you are a LGBTQ+ supporter so I suggest you read link number two .
This one :

'Dismantling Hamas from within': IDF uncovers trove of Hamas secrets

IDF and Shin Bet uncover extensive Hamas intelligence, revealing lists of suspected LGBTQ+ individuals, brutal tactics, global operations, and systematic terror tactics.

Source : https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-811143

"The amount of intelligence accumulated so far in the hands of Shin Bet and Military Intelligence allows us to dismantle Hamas from within," said a senior security official exposed to the heaps of documents.

Documents were also recovered that held detailed plans by Hamas on how to operate worldwide in regions such as Europe, Jordan, Egypt, the US that were far from the eyes of foreign intelligence organizations and under the radar of the media.

The documents revealed that Hamas developed a plan tailored to the population in each country.

Another document detailed a plan to ignite unrest in the West Bank and undermine the Palestinian Authority (PA) by infiltrating its security mechanisms and encouraging internal rebellion to overthrow and take control of the PA gradually.

Some documents also revealed the corruption within Hamas, showing how they not only accumulated assets but also used them. United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) apartments were registered in the name of Hamas military leader Mohammed Deif's wife.

Apartments of Mohammed Sinwar, Hamas head Yahya Sinwar's brother, were found to be received from UNRWA and then rented to Palestinians, according to rental contracts in possession of Military Intelligence. Documentation of Hamas operatives working for UNRWA was also found.

On the bodies of terrorists with name tags, photos, and numbers, a "phrasebook" was found that allowed them to communicate in Hebrew with civilians and soldiers during the raid. It included phrases like: "Take off your clothes," "Strip," "Take off your pants," "Children here and women there."

Military sources indicated that Hamas systematically integrated religious justification for their brutal acts into all their books, pamphlets, speeches, and notebooks, using Quranic verses and fatwas (religious rulings), including decisions on mutilating bodies and amputations.

Furthermore, documents and interrogations revealed that battalion commanders in the military wing received religious authorization to write fatwas under the title of sheikh to justify their actions against the Israeli population and soldiers, showing the terrorists there was no contradiction between the orders and Islam.

This can explain why Hamas killed anyone in their path during the October 7 raid, including Bedouins who were labeled by Hamas as "collaborators" and Thai workers labeled as "infidels."

In the clothing of the commander of the raid on Sderot, a handwritten note was found in which he stated that according to the Quran, their souls would ascend to heaven and, in exchange for their sadistic actions against soldiers and civilians, including torture, they would be welcomed into paradise.

There were also terrorists found with pocket notebooks influenced by Abdullah Azzam, one of the founders of the Al-Qaeda terrorist organization, who declared that killing purifies the soul.

Anybody that defends Hamas should read that link in full .

[Beastly Boy]

149. I will be kind and attribute the above post to your peculiar self-deprecating notion of having fun

which I noted earlier. I see you decided to abandon all caution and go full steam ahead with it after all, despite my well-intentioned advice. And, lowe and behold, not a day later the consequences are already evident: the "fun" (in quotation marks because I don't find it particularly funny) is getting in the way of your credibility. Just about every single argument you are trying to make can easily be applied to your own words, as it already had been. Don't say I didn't warn you!

Your indignant and somewhat gratuitous mention of body parts, an inevitable consequence of combat, is rather ill-placed in the context of legitimately targeting a large group of self-proclaimed war criminals in the middle of committing a war crime (hiding among civilians). Did you find it surprising that all munitions, not only those of Israel, cut people in pieces by design? Or is there something about the IDF munitions that make it special? Breaking news: the ten thousand and counting Hamas missiles fired into Israel's densely populated areas were intended to cut people in pieces too!

Your excuse for the Hamas health ministry's inflated body counts (and you may find it shocking, but it is indeed a Hamas ministry, run by Hamas, subordinate to the Hamas leadership who are also in control of the Hamas military, political and propaganda organs) is laughable considering that you routinely take the accuracy of their casualty reports for granted, and tolerate no mention of other, consistently more accurate, reports. In the same breath, your reason for rejecting IDF numbers of eliminated terrorists, their photos, ranks, and IDs included, is that IDF didn't share with you the confidential sources of their information. Duh! This over-the-top double standard may be fun, but it certainly doesn't enhance the credibility of your claims, no matter how many times you repeat them or how large the all caps typeface you choose to display them in. Don't say I didn't warn you!

And no, I never ask the kinds of questions that are so patently ridiculous. Just an old habit of mine.

[AloeVera]

151. My cup runneth over with your kindness and good intent.

Nearing the time to empty it out, I think.

I take the word of health-care professionals whose job it is to try to save the mangled people brought to their care and who would know better than a guy on the internet how many dead people were brought in. The Gaza Health Ministry was proven to be reliable and credible in its past reporting. Smears and aspersions on their credibility to avoid facing the awful toll on civilians - they don't work on me.

What "other, consistently more accurate, reports" are you referring to? There is no other casualty counting mechanism. If they and these "reports" exist, I would like to know.

Describing scenes of carnage seems a vain attempt to get across the inhumanity and barbarism of this so-called war to those whose hearts and minds are closed to the suffering of the other side. Those images are seared in my mind, like the boy I saw just now with both arms shredded to the bone and pieces of flesh dangling to the ground. Walking into the hospital on his own two feet, assisted by his screaming, crying father. Every decision to "eliminate terrorists" "hiding among civilians" at a school, hospital or camp results in scenes like that over and over. Damned right I would want to know about the quality of intelligence or the decision-making. Not me personally as you absurdly suggest but I want to know that there are leaders and international bodies that are willing to hold Israel to account. There has been too much unquestioning impunity and acceptance of absurd and flimsy justifications. I hope that will change now.

And btw bombing a school etc where civilians are present is still illegal. There is an exception where a direct military attack is coming from the school, which has not been evidenced by Israel. Even in that case, care must be taken. Three missiles on a prayer room used by civilians at the exact time of Fadr is not care. Quite the opposite.

I think we've run the course of this exchange.

[Beastly Boy]

152. It's my pleasure.

But I prefer to take the word of someone who can back it up with solid evidence over someone's personal recollection whose accuracy could not be and was never verified. Surely a totally unreasonable preference from your viewpoint, but a far more sensible one. Feel free do disagree and put your trust into the entity which actually facilitates the killings and the propaganda surrounding them, the entity that wouldn't even discern between military and civilian casualties. And while I may be startled by your choices, they don't create in me a sense of obligation. They are entirely yours, whatever the impressions they may create. You will have to take ownership of them, not me.

Your histrionic descriptions of scenes of carnage do not even come close to the real thing: they amount to nothing more than conspicuous displays of performative outrage at the times that best suit your predispositions. Far be it from you to lecture anyone on the subject you have no clear conception of. Instead of lecturing, try to listen sometimes. Ask Israeli, who experiences this first hand on a daily basis, and you may learn a thing or five about carnage as opposed to reveling in the hypocrisy of third-hand accounts of it that you pick up on social media. (Ever heard the term "moral outrage porn"? Look it up.) Further, your propensity to fall back on performative outrage to deflect from losing arguments has become rather obvious.

And by the way, bombing a school building where terrorists find refuge, whether civilians are present there or not is not illegal. Yo must be unaware of the existence of Article 28 of the Fourth Geneva Convention to even suggest the absurdity you are trying to push.

[AloeVera]

153. One war crime doesn't excuse another, nor justify it.

That's another aspect of IHL you may not be aware of.

What "solid evidence"? You've presented none! Unless you are referring to Hen Mazzig's hasbara account on Xitter. Wherein he actually lied about Hamas revising down the numbers. Surely not???

Just what argument have I lost? You ignore what I say and change the subject. Moving goalposts, threading the needle, resorting to aspersions on my character.

I am sorry for anyone living under threat, whether it's Palestinians or Israelis or Israeli. The thing your side doesn't get is it didn't start on October 7th and neither does Oct 7th justify all the war crimes happening since.

In parting, let me say this.

You can accuse your opponent of anything you like, ridicule and belittle as is your want and style, pretend you've won an argument, gaslight as you wish...but it won't be with me. I've wasted enough time, my head hurts from all of it and it's simply pointless. Goodbye.

[The Magistrate]

155. When 'Gasighting' Is Charged, The Argument is Conceded

It boils most of your commentary here down to a nutshell...


"It's all lies! Lies agin' my boys!"

[AloeVera]

157. Thank you, Sir/Ma'am

Must have touched a nerve for you to wade in.

I don't accuse of gaslighting lightly, I have long and bitter experience with it. I know what it is.

Have a good day. Frogs and bourbon to be served shortly I imagine?

[The Magistrate]

160. You Assume Nerves Not In Evidence, Sir

"What other people think of me is none of my business."

[Beastly Boy]

161. Do you really mean it? You could have fooled me.

It certainly doesn't come across in posts full of rather unconvincing excuses for justifying Hamas' war crimes. Now tell me, how can the notion of one one war crime not justifying another possibly reconcile itself with justifying war crimes of one side and not the other?

I haven't presented any evidence, nor did I intend to. My post was to inform you of my preferences:I prefer to take the word of someone who can back it up with solid evidence. My reference was not to myself but to IDF, who indeed backed up their claims with solid evidence. My apologies for presuming things could not have been made any clearer.

It never occurred to me to keep a record of the arguments you lost, but I strongly suspect it is pretty close to the number of arguments you denied you lost, so you can easily compensate for my sloppy record keeping. Recalling all the instances of me moving goalposts, threading the needle and resorting to aspersions on your character might help supplement this record as well.

Here is what I CAN contribute to your list: live by the sword, die by the sword. I recall that one pretty clearly, and since I have no clue of what you are talking about, I will leave it up to you to decide whether this constitutes threading the needle, or moving the goal posts, or an aspersion on your character.

[Israeli]

124. Finally something we might agree on

Classic Xitter disinfo.

I wouldnt go near the place :

X is easiest platform to find Hamas, Hazbollah videos and antisemitism

The X platform, formerly known as Twitter, is now the easiest social media platform to find Hamas videos, The Sunday Times reported, citing the Community Security Trust (CST), a charity that combats extremism and antisemitism. It said within 10 minutes CST researchers were able to find on X propaganda videos from UK government-proscribed terrorist groups Hamas, Hezbollah and Palestinian Islamic Jihad. According to The Sunday Times a statement in the GIFCT's independent advisory committee annual 2023 report expressing concern over online trust and safety was directed at X. The advisory body said it had become "increasingly concerned by significant reductions in online trust and safety capabilities for certain platforms, and a perceived decrease in the priority of the issue, negatively impacting companies' ability to moderate extremist content online." The Sunday Times said Elon Musk had let banned extremists back on to X, allowed anyone to pay for a verification mark and sacked a large part of its content moderation team, as part of the billionaire's strategy of turning X into a "free speech" platform.
(Reuters)

Source : https://www.ynetnews.com/category/3089

[EX500rider]

170. "The Gaza Health Ministry - that you refer to as Hamas"

Yes, the leaders & spokesman for the Health Ministry will all be Hamas & everybody else under them either is or does as Hamas says or else.

Here's a list of all the leaders of the branches of government from 2016 , notice where it says "PARTY" next to their names? all Hamas


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas_government_of_October_2016#Members_of_the_government

[David__77]

103. That headline was corrected by Bloomberg because it was incorrect.

“(Corrects in trashline to show Bloomberg reported an outdated death-toll estimate, not a revised one.)”

https://archive.is/lh5GI

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-08-10/israel-strike-on-gaza-school-kills-100-palestinians-hamas-says

[Calculating]

95. Supposedly the strike took out a bunch of Hamas terrorists

They were using the school as a base. Unfortunate for the citizens who had to die because of Hamas and their cowardly tactics.

[AloeVera]

101. Unfortunate the mosque inside the school was struck

At the exact time of Fajr - just before sunrise - when people were inside praying. It's not like Shin Bet or the IDF could have KNOWN about Muslim prayer rituals.

[Beastly Boy]

111. Where did you get the info that the mosque was struck?

The only source I am aware of that claims this is you.

Anyone else? Source, please!

[Israeli]

119. It was a Hamas command and control center

in a room embedded inside the mosque .

A precise hit ......saw it on the television .

Here is more info :

https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/idf-press-releases-regarding-the-hamas-israel-war/august-24-pr/19-terrorists-eliminated-in-a-mosque-in-al-taba-een-school-compound/

[Beastly Boy]

121. Clearly, the "mosque being struck" bullshit was not intended to be a factual statement.

[Ping Tung]

107. Murdered.

[ChazII]

108. knr nt

[FullySupportDems]

131. Well ifn it's a war on Terror

Then they can kill all the civilians they want, right? So much for human rights then.

One thing I do know is that none of the defenders of what is being done to the Palestinians would think it was justified if they themselves were Palestinian. And that's where I'm coming from. Not one of these defenders would approve of killing their own children as collateral damage. But I do not think they'll admit it.

Palestinians have been dehumanized. No one should be okay with this.

[TheKentuckian]

141. Take it up with their fathers, brothers, sons, mothers, sisters, and daughters

that are hell bent on using their own kin as shields and turned their neighborhoods into military bases.

[FullySupportDems]

142. And since when have they been shielded

If all one has to do is claim masses of people are "human shields" to justify killing them, then they aren't really shields then are they? Hospitals, schools, food kitchens, none were shielded by their civilians.

No, I don't think you would be so blithe about the deaths and maimings if you were a Palestinian. And I think if your opinion of Palestinians is that their feelings and lives don't matter, that is a problem.

I appreciate your response. I hope there can be peace soon.

[TheKentuckian]

154. Denying that Hamas is embedding themselves in the civilian population and infrastructure is nonsense.

[FullySupportDems]

162. Nope. I didn't deny anything

It's just wrong to mow down thousands of civilians to kill a few Hamas members. And destroying Gaza to "stop" them is also wrong. Not to mention flying in the face of international law. Lawless.

But if you truly believe there is nothing wrong with what is happening to the Palestinians, there is nothing to discuss.

[TheKentuckian]

163. No, if the expectation is cosigning impunity for the terrorists

and hot and cold running 10/7's on tap then definitely forget that crap, it is brazen and unflinching Hamas support and Death to Israel bullshit.

[FullySupportDems]

166. It seems like the thousands of civilian

Deaths and casualties keep getting lost in the discussion. Almost as if their lives don't matter as much. As yours. They are all human shields, nothing more?

No, I get it. You believe the necessity of "stopping Hamas" justfies everything being done. And I'm telling you, it doesn't.

[The Magistrate]

158. Don't Play Cards For Money

It should not need pointing out how it works. When criminal combatants take up firing positions or establish facilities among non-combatants, one of two things happens. It may work as a shield, the foe may refrain from attacking you to spare bystanders, in which case you 'win' by remaining an intact fighting force. Or, the foe may still attack, and while your position is neutralized, the bystander casualties make great propaganda to proclaim your foe a fiend, and if you can get the good-hearted and muddle-headed to agree, then you 'win' again.

Note to anyone tempted to try this at home: it only works when Jews are your foe. Otherwise, as any modest survey of world events will demonstrate, nobody gives the north end of a southbound rat if bystanders are killed by a military force engaging combatants who seek shelter by their proximity....

[FullySupportDems]

164. Oh I'm well aware of your views Magistrate

I believe you mean to say Israel has no choice in the actions they take, because it is imperative to stop Hamas. And I think you are wrong. Past that, I think we have nothing to discuss. I'll keep calling it murder. You keep believing it's okay.

[The Magistrate]

168. Israel Has A Choice, Just As Does Hamas

Both parties are moral agents, who choose what they do and bear the responsibility for acting on what choice they make.

Hamas chose to indulge in a sadistic spree of murder, torture, rape, and kidnapping. They chose to do this freely, and are responsible for consequences which flow from doing so.

Israel chose to respond to this by levying war on Hamas, and to use the full weight of its military capabilities in doing so. They chose to do this freely, and are responsible for consequences which flow from doing so.

The nearest approach to mitigation on the Israeli side is that it is vanishingly unlikely that, absent what Hamas chose to do on the 7th of October last, Israel would have chosen to commence a campaign of bombing and invasion in Gaza that month.

The nearest approach to mitigation on the part of Hamas is that its leaders feared peace might be made over their heads between Israel and neighboring Arab powers, and that they had to head this off in order to maintain their dream of restorative vengeance against the Jews,

[FullySupportDems]

172. We have nothing to discuss Magistrate

I will never agree that Oct 7 justifies what Israel is doing. I believe it is not just disproportionate, it is insane. And illegal. You plainly hold the opposite belief.

Just think, but for the grace of God, you me or anyone here could have been born Palestinian. Ask yourself, is it a forgone conclusion that you would support Hamas if you were?

[The Magistrate]

174. Are You Asking Would I Join Hamas If I Were A Palestinian Resident In Gaza?

Would you?

I would not do what was done on October 7.

[FullySupportDems]

175. I asked you first

But no, I'm asking you to think about being a Palestinian. They are human. You could have been one of them. Would you join Hamas? Only if you thought violence was the only answer to the problem. And you didn't care who died or how many. Justifying it with religious identity, of course.

[The Magistrate]

176. What Difference Would It Make If I Said Yes? Or No, For That Matter?

It would not alter the facts of the situation at present, nor my present view of it. I am capable of sympathy for, even at times empathy with a foe, but it did not change the relation in which we stood.

Personally, I'm amused by people who express certainty they would be on the side of the angels in hard times and dire straits they have not experienced. In difficult circumstances, most people keep their heads down and try to get by, and I would not argue much with a person who said I've a high opinion of myself, but I don't imagine I am much different from the common run of humanity in that.

[FullySupportDems]

177. Not much to argue with there

Can't say one way or another if my Palestinian alter ego would be Hamas. I was in the Air Force, so there's that. I'd like to think I wouldn't commit violent acts. But people anywhere can be persuaded to do awful things, so I don't take it for granted being on the side of angels. Just hopeful.

Have a good evening

[The Magistrate]

178. And You As Well

[EX500rider]

171. He's not wrong, I didn't see where all these dead civilians got called "genocide", just "war"

According to the Watson Institute for International and Public Affairs at Brown University, over 432,000 civilians have died as a direct result of the U.S. post-9/11 wars, and an estimated 3.6-3.8 million people have died indirectly. This brings the total death toll to at least 4.5-4.7 million people.

[betsuni]

147. The Hamas plan: lots of civilian deaths, tell them they're martyrs.

Use it for propaganda, support and funding from other Islamic fundamentalist states. Palestinians dehumanized by the terrorists using them for their own goals. Hamas leadership not at all interested in being martyrs.

[FullySupportDems]

173. Well it seems that Israel is going along with Hamas?

I guess you mean Hamas wanted Israel to destroy Gaza, to create martyrs, and so since Israel is destroying Gaza...they're doing what Hamas wants? Seems like a good reason to stop doing it. Not a justification to continue. Right?

[Mosby]

133. More terrorists have been confirned.

Link to tweet

[betsuni]

148. Thank you.

[Chautauquas]

143. More of the same from Israel

Israel keeps killing kids and other innocents and some here seem to think that's ok as long as Israel also continues to kill Hamas members.

[LAS14]

159. I don't think they're saying it's OK. Many seem to be pointing out that...

... Hamas is responsible for hiding among civilians.

[FullySupportDems]

169. It seems like they're giving a pass to Collateral punishment

Saying basically they had to kill many civilians to "get" Hamas. But I am saying that is not a good enough reason to wage war on masses of civilians. The destruction of Gaza is horrific. They are also blocking food and have destroyed water treatment plants. That's not targeted at Hamas. It targets everyone.

I don't know any other way to say it. It is not right to target a civilian population because there may be terrorists in there somewhere. It is collateral punishment and it is against international law.

Denying they are targeting civilians by calling them human shields doesn't make it ok.

[lapucelle]

187. There is no such thing as "collateral punishment" in international law.

Welcome to DU.

[Bucky]

165. Are you saying Israel doesn't have a right to defend itself?

Some of the survivors will grow up to be terrorists, ya know. For no reason at all!!

(the fact that you're wondering is this is sarcasm or not is entirely my point)

[FullySupportDems]

167. I don't think Israel has ever NOT defended itself

But if this slaughter actually defends Israel, I'll be really surprised. We tried waging a war on terror. It didn't work. And it wasn't practically in our back yard, with the kids we used to play with. So many kind and generous people being ground to dust. It's not a win, even if they "win".

[Bucky]

185. Exactly

Thank you.

It's so clarifying to hear (read) someone talk logically & humanely about this topic

[FullySupportDems]

188. Thanks, I tried

It feels like an insane argument.

I was thinking, an analogy could be that, at least here in the US, police aren't allowed to shoot a dangerous suspect in the middle of a crowd of people. They aren't allowed to spray bullets and mow them all down, just to get the one bad guy. It wouldn't "save lives" to kill so many innocent people to get the criminals. It would be insane.

And I dearly hope that philosophy never catches on here.

[AloeVera]

195. Thanks....

Sigh.

[akbacchus_BC]

181. Unfortunately you won't get too much support here regarding the slaughter of Palestinians. It is sad as

this is supposed to be a progressive forum.

[betsuni]

182. What does "progressive" mean?

[Oopsie Daisy]

184. Good question.

[Mossfern]

192. Exactly

my question about that statement.

[soandso]

196. This war is not near ending

Hamas doesn't want it to end. Netanyahu and a lot of Israelis don't want it to end. Hamas is not going to give up the hostages - among them, babies!!! - and Israel won't won't quit killing innocent Palestinians until Hamas is "defeated", which will never happen because new radicals are being made every day. The US, in spite of objections to Israeli actions, will always keep funding the war. It seems completely hopeless.