Do you think HOA's should be able to

[leftyladyfrommo]

control backyard chickens?

All our people living in upperclass subdivisions are having a fit because there is a new law that won't let HOA'S to ban chickens.

And normal life goes on.

[dsc]

1. That seems far less crazy than many of the other rules they often have

Chickens at least make noise and smell thus possibly a problem for neighbors unlike many of the other things they regulate.

[DeepWinter]

22. Yea

I can totally see banning chickens in a HOA situation. Noisy, massy, smells. (I have chickens in the country)

But your garbage can must be off the street by 10am and out of sight behind a fence in your side yard or you a re written up.

[democratsruletheday]

68. Spoken like someone who owns chickens....

you are spot ON about this DW. We live in deep red Michigan and a friend of ours up around the corner has chickens and they're a butt ache. He lets them roam and they sometimes get hit by cars, they smell, just overall hassle. We take care of them when he travels and we'd NEVER want them. Our neighbors tried having them and found the cost and bother far outweighed the meat and eggs they provided. I don't blame HOA's for banning them frankly.

[jimfields33]

2. I'm not sure I'd want my neighbors having chicken running around.

I live in an HOA and so far nobody has gotten chickens.

[Nittersing]

5. My neighbors have chickens and I almost never hear them.

If the neighborhood is really quiet and I go out in my front yard, I *might* hear an occasional cluck or two.

Roosters are not allowed.

[Tree Lady]

9. Same here I live in a quiet court

and only noise I hear is when the kids play outside. Two of the 6 houses in court have chickens and I never hear them, if I wasn't told they had them I would never know. And we hang out in our backyard a lot and I walk twice a day going past front way never hear anything.

[ProfessorGAC]

70. Opposite Here

Neighbor 2 doors down has some.
I always hear them & often see them wandering around our yard.
If they actually did damage, I'd complain. I just let it go.
But, I sure hear & see them every day.

[leftyladyfrommo]

87. They eat tons of bugs. And isn't chicken

poop good fertilizer?

[ProfessorGAC]

109. Wouldn't Know If It Is Or Isn't

I've never used any kind of manure, so I couldn't guess if some animal wastes are better than another.
I would guess it doesn't hurt anything, though.
Like I said, I just ignore it. It's not worth getting worked up over it.

[Jirel]

79. Not your business.

I am amazed that people think they should be able to control non-harmful animals in their neighbor’s yard. I have lived around people with chickens in the city, as well as in a rural area. Chickens harm nobody. They walk around their yard and eat bugs and lay eggs. Oh, the horror!

[Scrivener7]

84. If a community has come together and agreed they

don't want farm animals in the community, and if those who move into that community sign on to that agreement before they buy, that's not YOUR business.

[jimfields33]

124. lol. It's most definitely my business if they interfere

In my life in any way.

[lame54]

127. What about roosters?

[Kingofalldems]

140. In my town chickens allowed but not roosters.

[Kaleva]

164. If allowed to free range, they can get into neighbors gardens

[getagrip_already]

3. Lots of communities ban them also...

I dont agree with it but communities pass zoning ordinances that more comonly will ban chickens, large farm animals (cows), pigs, even honeybees.

Nuttier things hoa ban are commercial vans or pickups (anything with a wrap or sign like a contractor would have) from parking overnight. A ban on storing boats on your property. Weeds or wild grasses. Gas powered leaf blowers or weedvwhackers. Closing your garage door during the day.

They come up with oddest crap.

[Shermann]

19. Closing your garage door during the day?

Never heard of that one. What if you aren't home?

[getagrip_already]

24. Yeah, that was a weird one...

There was at least one hoa in california that required residents to leave their garage doors open from 8 am to 4pm on weekdays or risk a $200 fine.

Apparently they wanted to stop illegal apartment rentals.

They didnt seem to care about burglaries.

Eventially they backed down. It was too much for homeowners to put up with.

But really, it shows just how arrogant they can be.

[beaglelover]

4. Yes.

[Rebl2]

6. As long

as there are guidelines they have to follow like cleanliness, I don’t see the problem.

[obamanut2012]

7. Chickens okay, roosters no

[Demobrat]

129. I was about to post that.

Roosters suck.

[BluesRunTheGame]

8. My (across the street) neighbors have chickens.

For a while they even had a rooster. Wasn’t a problem for me. I might feel differently if they were a bit closer.

[delisen]

10. Cooped Chickens ok.

I have seen many chicke coops in Very pleasant neighborhoods, rich, poor and middle class.
They can be a great asset and experience, especially for children.

Roosters are not always welcome however.

[boston bean]

11. Roosters YES. Chickens no.

[Demobrat]

130. Oh hell no.

The only alarm clock I want to put up with is next to my bed. Roosters ruin your neighbor’s’ quiet enjoyment of their homes. Chickens just cluck and smell.

[angrychair]

12. HOAs shouldn't exist at all

I'm not giving some random idiots the right to steal my half million dollar house because I didn't mow my lawn to their specifications

[leftyladyfrommo]

25. That's kind of where I am, too. I don't have

an HOA where I live. There are some chickens a few houses up and they don't bother me at all.

[Scrivener7]

34. Then by all means, you should not live in a place that has one. I am very glad I do have one.

Saying they "shouldn't exist" is, ironically, you decreeing how others should live. Just like what you are objecting to.

[Zeitghost]

37. Why not allow free choice

I would never live in in HOA governed neighborhood, but that's my choice. I don't even like living in the city with the zoning and ordinance rules many have, again, my choice. Some prefer a more structured environment and they should have that choice as well.

[angrychair]

72. So people can do whatever

I just can't imagine willingly signing up to allow random strangers haven't the ability to take your home from you just because you didn't pay your HOA fees or your grass is too tall. Just can't imagine having someone take my half million dollar home because I owe them a thousand dollars in HOA fees

[Scrivener7]

80. Again, then, by all means you should not live

in a neighborhood with an HOA.

What is the issue here? You don't like them. Okay. So?

I live in a co-op. Our board is essential. And far from being strangers, they are good people who keep my building feeling like a home. You can't imagine that situation, to the extent that you posit ridiculous scenarios. You can't imagine it. Okay. So what?

[Zeitghost]

82. Within reason and as long as it's voluntary, sure

Like I said, it's not my preference, but I can see how some would not want to live in a neighborhood with farm animals, or broken cars parked on the lawn. Others do and we have a variety of choices on where we can live that should make most people happy.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

86. I would never live in a single family HOA but I get that some people would prefer an HOA.

When my mother in-law was looking for a home I remember passing/not even looking inside some houses because the neighbor’s house was a pig-sty. One otherwise perfect house had two motorcycles on milk crates and cars on the lawn.

Imagine trying to sell that half a million dollar house and your neighbor is running a motorcycle and car chop shop on the lawn.

There’s a house near me I drive by all the time that has a giant derelict motor home with some half assed tarp over it that looks like garbage. The driveway is packed with cars with cars parked on the parkway apron. I always think to myself “THAT’S why people like HOAs”

Btw, I say single family HOAs because I lived in condo HOAs for 20 years and those are absolutely necessary. But I would never live in a building with more than 6 -12 units.

[angrychair]

91. I get it

I also know that Congress had to pass a law to stop HOAs from stealing the homes of active duty military while they are away on deployment simply because they got behind of their HOA fees or their grass got tall because they were, you know, being shot at in some desert somewhere and that is a little more important.
There is a big difference between reasonable standards like not turning your front lawn into a junkyard (which can actually be handled with city codes and ordinances) and some asshole out in front of your house measuring how tall your mailbox post is or if you have one to many chairs on your front porch or your house isn't the right shade of blue (the bylaws say it must be "powdered sunset blue" not "sunset blue" ).

[Hassin Bin Sober]

116. You know what happens when you don't comply or pay city fines, yes? I guess it's better when the government...

…. takes your house or places a lien on the property.

I get it, people get all worked up over sensationalized stories of grandmas being evicted by mean old HOAs. But there’s always another side of the story. The vast majority aren’t doing all those things people get triggered over when they see a news report.

The vast majority of HOAs are just trying to conduct business and get the bills paid. Having homeowners shirking their bills can be a real hardship for the other owners. And yeah, that goes for active service people too. Our insurance (largest part of our HOA budget) and water/sewer/garbage/gas/electric was still due regardless of whatever reason someone wasn’t paying their HOA dues. If Congress doesn’t want people in trouble over HOA dues, they should be picking up the tab - not making the other owners pay for their deployment.

When I got in to the mortgage business I used to scoff at rate risk/premium up-charges for HOAs because who ever saw foreclosures or massive delinquencies, right? Well living through the 2008 meltdown opened my eyes to how much risk you (and your lender) carry when you are linked to your neighbor’s financial situation.

You know, reading this thread reminds me why I would never live in a larger HOA. Not because HOAs are evil - because people in large HOAs tend to act like infants and treat the HOA like some out of state utility instead of a group of owners trying to handle business. I guess I was fortunate to live in HOAs with mostly adults.

[angrychair]

120. I'm interested in my bills

I'm not interested in paying the HOAs bills. I don't give a shit. I will pay my own utilities and my own property taxes.
Your disregard and dismissiveness for what military personnel go through in some of these long term combat deployments is exactly why Congress passed a law.
You shouldn't be able to steal someone's house because they owe the HOA a couple hundred bucks. It's absurd.

We are not going to agree on this so it's best we just agree to disagree and move on.

[LeftInTX]

149. Our HOA dues go toward the pool and small clubhouse, tennis, playground

Actually it's mostly the pool. The other I can do without, but I'm in Texas and it's that or build one in your backyard. The city pools are already closed for the year. (Yeah San Antonio) They're far away and a very crowded with very limited hours.

The rest of the fees goes toward working with city. There are a few wayward types in the neighborhood. Our place is pretty dumpy and we haven't had complaints. We've had xeriscape for 20 years and those with non-traditional yards don't feel out of place.

[soandso]

159. Word

HOAs are for Karens.

[Scrivener7]

161. Your slip is showing.

[soandso]

182. What is that supposed to mean?

And I'm not the only one who said that. At least I don't think they should be outlawed, lol. Karens need a place, too! I actually agree with you that it's matter of choice and that if someone doesn't want an HOA then don't live somewhere with one. Living in the same building, as in a condo, they're essential. In single family home neighborhoods, they aren't.

[Iggo]

115. I can't even imagine what it would be like owning my own home and answering to an HOA.

The words “hostile takeover” come to mind, though.

[Abolishinist]

157. Why is mowing your yard such a huge problem for you?

You've also mentioned twice the value of your home, you must be proud of this, as though it somehow makes a difference.

And by the way, life is always about compromise. One can only paint their house from a certain list of colors, if the screen on your bedroom window is slashed it needs to be repaired, you can't park a trailer home in your front yard, please trim the overgrown palm tree infested with rats, and on and on.

On the other hand, one gets to live in a community that affords some conformity to one's standards. There's also the common area maintenance, plus often a pool/clubhouse.

It's a choice, I couldn't care less, take it or leave it or don't buy a residence there. Freedom of choice!

[Lifeafter70]

176. When my son bought his home in a hoa

He was healthy and had no problem keeping the lawn mowed. In 2016 he was diagnosed with cancer, he had to have life saving surgery in Los Angeles he lived i Reno. He was in ICU for two weeks, hospital another two weeks and rehab another two weeks. I lived on the other side of the country. They fined him every day for his lawn not being mowed even after we informed them what was going on. I was finally able to hire someone to do the yardwork but he still had to pay fines over 1000. They didn't care and continued to find all kinds of things to fine him for like leaving his trash cans out or some random person parking in front of his mail box. His cancer is incurable and his surgeries left him with reduced vision in one eye, lose of hearing and the use of one arm. He finally had to sell his house. So I'm a no on HOA's. They were unwilling to work with us, his cancer was not their problem.

[Johnny2X2X]

13. They should be allowed

This is good for food diversity and security. SOme people want fresh eggs and fresh chicken meat.

But the one issue I have seen is they get out and then a neighborhood has chikcens wandering around.

[CrispyQ]

14. We have goats & chickens in my suburban neighborhood.

Woody & Buzz live a few houses away & I hear them bleat occasionally & it makes me smile. There's a rooster down the street a ways. I like hearing him crow but there have been some complaints on Nextdoor. Chickens are delightful creatures, very social & good for your garden.

[StarryNite]

110. Yes, I have heard chickens are one of the best things for your garden.

They eat bugs, they fertilize, and they till the soil.

[CrispyQ]

113. A long time ago we had ducks & my husband would pick tomato worms off the plants

& throw them over by the ducks & they would squabble over them! They were a favored treat.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

117. I would love to have chickens but I'm thinking my immediate neighbors would hate it.

My across the street neighbors have three kids that are always making lots of noise on their skateboards, big wheels, and now mini bikes. And you know what? It brings joy to my heart.

The mom is always apologizing and I tell her to stop. I would never want to live in a neighborhood without kids in it.

[Raven123]

15. If that's what the HOA contract allows, yes

[MissB]

16. I don't live in a neighborhood that has an HOA

And I keep backyard chickens, so I suppose one could surmise how I feel.

My run is rat and predator proof. I don’t keep roosters and provide my neighbors with eggs.

[GoodRaisin]

17. HOA's are subject to the same laws the rest of the community are subject to.

Even the nutcake laws.

[Sneederbunk]

18. What about hogs?

[Shermann]

20. The "right to dry" is a thing too

HOA's frequently ban clotheslines. They should be allowed in your backyard, it's free solar energy.

[LeftInTX]

92. I hate that rule. We have it. Clothesline are allowed if they are not visible. (aka too short)

Drying a few things outside using chairs or ladders is OK.

But I hate that rule...

[Happy Hoosier]

21. Dude the NEXT NEIGHHOOD OVER has basically a chicken farm in his back yard....

And I can hear those fuckers crowing at 5 AM. He must have 100 chickens. It's a local topic becuase they sometimes get out and wander all over the neighborhood. Pisses me off, personally. I sometimes have a tough time getting back to sleep after this special alarm call.

Some other folks on the other side have small coops and they are quiet. My neighborhood does not allow livestock in yards.

[Zeitghost]

23. Yes

I'd be personally opposed to it, because I don't like my neighbors dictating things like that and I like chickens and fresh eggs.

But I do respect those who choose to live in an area with more strict rules. So as long as you're informed of the rules prior to buying, I have no issues.

[Scrivener7]

26. Yes. I would be pretty pissed if my HOA did NOT ban chickens.

[tulipsandroses]

32. Yep me too. I live in a HOA neighborhood. My parents don't. The folks across the street bought horses. Good grief.

Yeah, horses in the GA heat in a residential neighborhood. It smells, like well horseshit!

[Scrivener7]

42. I'm really amused by all the comments in this thread that say, "HOAs should not be allowed!

I want to live the way I want to live!"

So they'd ban the way many others want to live. My HOA saves us a lot of friction among neighbors in our building, and they enforce safety regulations that benefit all of us.

No one is holding a gun to anyone's head and making them move into a neighborhood or building with an HOA. If they don't like HOAs, they shouldn't move into communities that have them.

But no. They're saying they should be banned so everyone else has to live the way THEY want to live.

[Shermann]

96. More or less agree, but in some areas you'd be hard pressed to find a home without one.

I guess "HOA refugee" might become a thing?

I'm in an HOA, but it's pretty lenient. I've only gotten one complaint in fourteen years, and I push the envelope on stuff.

[Scrivener7]

99. I think the vast majority of HOAs run that way. Because the vast majority

don't want to be caught up in the petty shit.

If an HOA is too intrusive for a resident, it's because either it's always been like that and the resident didn't do their due diligence when buying, or some rogue person has gotten into the board who is not consistent with the board's usual behavior, and that board member should not have been voted in and should (and usually can) be voted off.

[Shermann]

118. They are more unpopular that I realized. Here's a study.

https://www.homeadvisor.com/r/problems-with-hoas/

[LeftInTX]

125. And the neighborhoods that don't have them are complaining about code issues.

Trust me, you should see the complaints on next door. Cars parked in yards, cars on blocks, junk in yards. The city doesn't do anything.

[Shermann]

143. It's settled. I'm getting my own private island! nt

[LeftInTX]

147. I really think it depends where you live..HOA's aren't "evil"...Horror stories are overblown, but there are out there.

I live in Texas and about the only way you will get a neighborhood pool is to live in a neighborhood with an HOA.

If you don't live in an HOA neighborhood you can:
1. Not swim (This is Texas. It's hot!)
2. Build a pool (Been there done that with an above ground pool)
3. Join a private pool elsewhere (Drive far)
4. City pools = not swim because they really about as fun as the green bologna sandwiches that they serve at the summer free kid's lunch program. Plus they are already closed for the year. And we still have plenty of months of summer left.

I live 1/4 mile from my pool. We pay $200/yr for membership, so it's worth it for us.

[Shermann]

150. Well, the private island is out of reach, but I do have a private inground pool.

There's no neighborhood pool in my development. I really love the pool and use it nearly every day in the summer. Neighborhood pools generally aren't well-maintained (an issue that deserves its own thread). It's just a lowly vinyl pool, but it does the job (the Joneses are putting in gunite pools these days).

[LeftInTX]

153. My backyard was just too shady and constantly had algae due to trees. It also is not a level at all. 10% slope.

So, I had to put a small intex 8 ft round 2 ft deep pool on the most level spot which also happened to be on the easement. (Not that anyone was complaining) However, it was only two feet from the fence and I had privacy trees along the fence. It was constant, constant algae and the water level was also not level, so the pump didn't work very efficiently.

[DemonGoddess]

141. I have to ask

How the hell are you able to have horses in a residential area? Unless it's an area with acreage per lot?

[tulipsandroses]

144. It's an old neighborhood. Many of the homes are on huge lots. You don't find that kind of land space any more in GA

That property is about 3 times the size of my parents' property. I don't know if there are ordinances against it. I doubt it, since I have seen horses and cows on other properties in other neighborhoods that are close by. The difference is that those properties are somewhat separated from other homes in the area. Whereas, this property is directly across the street.

[DemonGoddess]

145. As someone who used to have my own horses

I can tell you to properly care for one, you need an acre PER HORSE. With that acreage being dedicated to equine care and stabling.

[tulipsandroses]

148. I decided to look up the zoning laws for their neighborhood. I could not find it ,but I found it for the county nearest

to them. I am assuming that the regulations would be similar.

This says the property should be at least 3 acres. . My parents live on 3/4 acre so it may be, or close to 3 acres. I'm not sure that their shed is 100 ft from my parents' property line.

Livestock
Definition:
Cattle, horses, donkeys, mules, goats, sheep, swine and other hoofed animals; poultry, ducks, geese, pigeons,
peacocks and other live fowl; and fur or hide-bearing animals; whether owned or kept for pleasure, utility or
sale. The term livestock shall not include small species of pigs, cage birds or rabbits kept within a dwelling as a
household pet.
Zoning Requirements:
Livestock and honeybees may be kept for commercial purposes or for personal pleasure or utility in the
agricultural (RA-200) zoning district. Livestock may also be kept for non-commercial purposes in certain
single-family residential zoning districts (R-LL, R-100 and R-75), provided the lot or parcel is at least three-
acres in size, is the livestock owner’s residence, and all animal quarters must be located no closer than 100
feet to any property line.

[tulipsandroses]

27. Yes they should be able to ban chickens. When it comes to HOAs. - One can choose to not live in a HOA neighborhood

I live in one and appreciate it. We've had issues lately in mine, with new folks - mostly renters not home owners, breaking all kinds of rules around here. Not cool. Well, the owners will have to pay the price for the rules their renters break. Oh well.

[HelpImSurrounded]

31. In my area they are harder and harder to avoid.

High fear people, like conservatives, flock to them and this is a very red area full of terrified people.

[Scrivener7]

44. So do people who want to agree with their neighbors on what they do and don't

want to happen in their community.

I live in a very blue high occupancy apartment community. (One that, by the way, is miles and miles better for the environment than neighborhoods with individual houses with yards that could accommodate chickens.) Our boards and HOAs allow us to agree in ways that make our community work well.

Your comment that they are for "high fear people" is idiotic.

[HelpImSurrounded]

74. You're obviously not from my area.

driving by the HOAs here is like driving by fortresses and prisons. They may look like they are nice but the walls, guards and rules reveal their fear.

Yes, there are some very limited appropriate uses for HOAs but they are not the norm.

[Scrivener7]

90. So you don't like HOA communities. So don't live in one.

What is the issue here?

[HelpImSurrounded]

121. The issue?

Is that my opportunities for WHERE I might want to live are shrinking because of their metastasis.

[Scrivener7]

146. And yet OTHER people clearly want the HOA community

or they wouldn't live there.

Everyone doesn't need to live the way you want to. I'm going to assume you're not saying they should so YOU can feel there aren't limits to your options, because that would be psycho. So if you aren't saying that, simply look elsewhere.

[HelpImSurrounded]

167. "simply look elsewhere"

How privileged of you. I've heard this argument applied in other contexts.... hmmm what could those be?

[Scrivener7]

169. I like apartments. I think I'm going to insist that single family homes are no longer

built in my area. Because I like apartments and if single family homes are built, I will have fewer options for what I want. Also, if there is an area that is mostly single family homes, I'm going to insist that I have to be able to live there in an apartment, even though it isn't a neighborhood with apartment buildings.

So, I decree that you should live in an apartment. Because that's the living arrangement I prefer.

Gosh. That would be completely infantile if I really believed that, wouldn't it?

Also, PS: your cry of "privilege" on this subject is pretty idiotic. But have fun with it.

[HelpImSurrounded]

171. Spoken like a true HOA resident.

[Scrivener7]

172. Lol! Have a lovely day!

[leftyladyfrommo]

38. We've had trouble with houses in very upscale

neighborhoods being purchased and then rented out to 24/7 party people. Subdivisions are starting to pass laws that protect homeowners from this.

[tulipsandroses]

155. Yes - Some folks bought property in my subdivision to rent as event space. I and others complained. Now they are selling

their property.
It was ridiculous when they had "events". The streets in our subdivision are narrow. Cars parked on both sides of the street, even on the edge of people's lawns. Hell No!! -Why on earth should you be allowed to take up all the parking spots in the neighborhood to throw your holiday party? So for residents who actually live there and are having their own family get together, nowhere for their family and friends to park?
One was really upset when he was told that this is not allowed. It's spelled out in the documents you signed. He claimed that the real estate agent that he dealt with told him that this would be OK. Well, lesson learned, you should have read what you were signing.

It would not have bothered me if this was just a once in a while thing. It started becoming a routine almost every weekend thing at the start of summer.

[leftyladyfrommo]

163. People complained that laws allowing just

a certain number of renters was racist. It wasn't meant to be.

I don't blame people for wanting these owners gone. It would be horrible to have a party going on 24 hours a day.

[obamanut2012]

45. No really true in many areas, especially many parts of Florida

[Scrivener7]

50. So don't live in those areas if you don't want an HOA.

[Zoomie1986]

55. In many places

It's impossible to find an affordable home that isn't in an HOA.

That's not choice, you know.

[Scrivener7]

56. Then, if it's that important to you, move somewhere else. Of course it's choice.

But if you are saying you need to be able to move into a community and change the way that community has previously agreed to work together, YOU are the one who is imposing your will unfairly.

[Freddie]

73. My son lives in Boynton Beach

Every house is in an HOA. Luckily they seem to be in a good one, 3 years and no problems thus far.

[LeftInTX]

104. I think HOAs are popular in the south because they provide pools!

That's why we moved into our neighborhood 30 years ago. Our old neighborhood did not have an HOA and there was no pool. We had to join a private swim club. City pools wouldn't allow use to bring our babies in floaties etc. City pools were far away with very iimited hours.

Currently most of the City of San Antonio pools are closed until 2025. A few are open on weekends until Sept 12th.

[LeftInTX]

173. Same with Texas. I think it's the pool membership.

I'm fine with my HOA. Texas law prohibits HOA's from policing drought tolerant landscapes. (They can police overgrown landscapes, but so can code compliance) Our HOA has a rule against front yard hedges obstructing the view of the house. You can have a hedge in your front yard as long as it is under four feet. The rest is pretty much common sense.

There are rules about additions and paint colors. Construction requires HOA approval. Also garage conversions aren't allowed. (I hate garage conversions anyway)
However, we did not seek HOA approval before we painted our home. As long as the paint matches the rest of the neighborhood, there isn't a problem. Our homes are brick in the front.

Our neighborhood is 1/4 acres lots, Home built in 1979.

There are older neighborhoods, nearby with larger lots (1/2 plus acres). Those areas don't have an HOA, but larger lots allow for more innovation.

Our HOA fees are $200/year.

[leftyladyfrommo]

28. I didn't realize this was such a hot topic. nt

[HelpImSurrounded]

29. No. HOAs should go extinct

[mvd]

36. Agreed

I would never buy a house with one again.

[CTyankee]

30. What is a HOA?

[Takket]

35. Homeowners association

Basically a community government that sets rules and starts for the community.

[CTyankee]

40. Oh, thanks. We're not affected.

[Bettie]

112. Usually run by the most obnoxious and petty

People in the neighborhood, from what I hear from friends who live in such places. We choose to live in a small town.

[Takket]

33. Yes. If a community agrees to standards they want

And people moving in agree to those standards, then that is their business and should not be interfered with.

[cbabe]

39. I'd rather have chickens than the industrial strength air

conditioner the next door guy just installed. It’s like a chainsaw in my kitchen, all day long.

There is a muffler device available but he won’t install it.

Friendly clucking is much preferable than machine roar.

[leftyladyfrommo]

43. Really. Chickens really don't make a lot of noise.

I put up with a whole lot of really noisy machines and I don't like it but I don't complain. It's just life in the city.

[Scrivener7]

46. If you had a HOA, they'd probably take care of that for you.

[Zoomie1986]

57. And a whole lot of other things that you don't want, too

It's the rare HOA that isn't run by Nazi Karens who want to control even the shade of beige you repaint your house with.

[Scrivener7]

60. So, again, don't move into a neighborhood with an HOA.

Or with an HOA run by your imaginary "Nazi Karens."

I've lived with HOAs and co-op boards all my life. Never a problem. And they've solved countless problems for me so I never had to deal with them.

[LeftInTX]

94. I live in one. It's not run by Nazi's.

One is a strong Democrat.

I've been here 30 years.

HOA's often run the common grounds. They maintain the pool. Without an HOA, I would be stuck in a neighborhood without a pool.

[Renew Deal]

41. There should be laws that ban HOA's

[Scrivener7]

47. So that everyone will be required to live the way you want them to live?

Do you see the irony?

[Voltaire2]

63. Seriously. Their origin is white only covenants.

[leftyladyfrommo]

179. And no Jews. nt

[Abolishinist]

187. You'll be pleased to know that progress has been made!

In the 1960's, realtors in my little 'town' of La Jolla had to come up with creative plans to keep Jews from purchasing real estate here.

One of the their methods was providing green cards to help alert sellers that a prospective Jewish customer was en route to a property. These cards were placed on the front windshield of cars as the real estate agents shuttled Jewish customers around. The homeowners would then pretend not to be home. There was also a ban on "For Sale" signs, which meant that one had to contact a realtor to know which properties were available.

But you know what? That's all in the past. Anyone of any color or religious persuasion can buy a home here today! AND, there are HOAs as well, and they have ZERO say as to who is able to purchase real estate.

https://lajolla.com/article/housing-discrimination-la-jolla/#:~:text=At%20the%20turn%20of%20the,settling%20down%20in%20La%20Jolla.

[Abolishinist]

186. So? Time moves on, things change, often for the better.

Do you really believe that in the year 2024, HOAs have any ability at all to determine who buys a parcel of real estate/rents a unit under their 'jurisdiction' ?

[LeftInTX]

95. There should be laws that every neighborhood in the US have swimming pools. One pool every few square miles.

Until we have that law, I'm happy to live in a neighborhood that has a community pool. Without an HOA, you're stuck in a neighborhood without a pool. (You gotta build your own or travel 10 miles to a city pool with very limited hours that is full of kids wall to wall)

I'm willing to pay for a neighborhood pool.

[soandso]

160. Another option would be

A neighborhood pool and/or clubhouse that people could join or not and not have the HOA all up in your business over flowers you plant or what color your siding is.

[LeftInTX]

170. Yes, but that has not worked out very well. Those pool memberships are optional.

We belonged to a pool and tennis club before moving out here. It was in a part of town with no HOA's and I believe the only reason they could keep it going was their tennis team. Other membership pools seem to struggle. We joined a pool near my parents house when I first moved here with my parents. It was nice, but eventually, it folded.

The Y has a pool and some of the health clubs have pools (Gold's Gym shuttered all their pools permanently when Covid hit)
The local school district has a pool also.
However, school districts in lower income areas don't have swim teams and don't have pools.
Still those pools just don't offer the same as a local pool. (I live 1/4 mile from the pool)
The HOAs have swim teams also, which is another motivation to keep the pools open.

HOA membership dues are mandatory and it keeps the pools open.

I live in hot Texas. My Mexican in-laws never learned to swim because pools were not available for them. It's still kinda like that. It's not racism as much as economics.

My HOA membership is only $200/year. The pool that we used to belong to is $385/year.


Here's a pic of my front yard from about 15 years ago:



It's xeriscape and in Texas, HOA's can't prohibit xeriscape. They can prohibit overgrowth. You can see I also have that going on here too. I try to keep it in check. We have not been bothered by them. One time this guy asked me to prune my oaks because they were hanging over the street and I politely schooled him about oak wilt. That's the only time I've had issues.

[soandso]

181. The yard pic is lovely!

And I like the way flowers were spilling over.

I was stunned when you said that about the public pools being closed for the season. What the heck? I know it's hot there and I would have imagined they'd be open year round.

Your HOA sounds very reasonable (annual cost). Is mostly just for the pool and tennis courts? I suppose there are all different kinds, with some getting involved in every little thing and others less so. Important to read that contract.

[LeftInTX]

183. Unfortunately, City of San Antonio pools are only open for a short time.

It's very hot here. Our first few years, we didn't use the AC. Our old neighborhood didn't have an HOA, so we joined a private swim/tennis club. I had little kids. Those poor kids would have died without the pool..LOL Or maybe their mom would have have died.

We did have those sad blow up things in our backyard, but they're pretty disgusting. The water starts to boil after a few hours and by evening it was usually a fetid mess..LOL

[soandso]

184. If I lived someplace hot

I, too, would make the same choice you have. I would not want to maintain my own pool so a neighborhood pool would be ideal. For 200 bucks a year, you can't beat it! Pool chemicals probably cost more than that.

[jimfields33]

132. That is not progressive or democratic at all!

Choice is the magic word that should be allowed in all circumstances.

[leftyladyfrommo]

48. See. You start out with backyard chickens

and it leads directly to backyard slaughterhouses. And no one wants to listen to that.

[Zoomie1986]

58. Ye old slippery slope fallacy.

[jalan48]

49. Our city increased the number of chickens each household could have to four and we immediately had a rat problem.

The problem with chickens in a community isn't the chickens, it's the owners.

[33taw]

53. Why? I live rurally and have had 7 chickens for years and never a single rat.

[jalan48]

54. Because some people don't know what they are doing. Carelessness with feed has been the biggest problem in our community

The feed attracts rats and then the rats breed like crazy and need more food which leads to infesting houses in search of more food.

[Zoomie1986]

65. The workaround, of course

Is to require feed bins that have air-tight lids. If you can afford the chickens and the coop, you can afford a premium feed bin.

My grandparents had chickens, and I had to feed them and do the egg run every day. We didn't have these fancy feed bins like now. Our feed bin was a tin-lined wooden box my grandfather built with an old coffee can inside for portion control. We kept the lid down with those carpenter clamps for gluing wood, and I hadn't finished feeding the chickens if I didn't sweep up any feed I spilled between the bin and the coop.

If we had any rats, then the barn cats took care of any that dared to show up. First time I ever saw a rat with my own eyes was in the city, which tells me that our cats were quite efficient predators.

[jalan48]

69. The problem isn't the chickens.

It's introducing them into an urban environment (HOA) and then not caring for them responsibly. The "urban farmers" in my community had an exaggerated sense of entitlement. Their rat problem became our rat problem and we were given lots of advice on how to rat proof our homes, and exterminate the rats that came from their yards. Of course, it was assumed we would pay the cost of these measures.

[Scrivener7]

71. So you feel it would be a good idea to mandate a specific kind of premium feed bin for the neighborhood?

Last edited Tue Aug 13, 2024, 02:49 PM - Edit history (1)

Which are a good idea because they benefit everyone in the vicinity?

Interesting.

[LeftInTX]

98. Yeah, I live in a rat infested area!

I don't feed any wildlife due to rats. I don't even grow vegetables. I have loquat trees and that's it.

[UniqueUserName]

51. Theoretically, yes. . .

. . .but I would want to know the HOA rules before buying.

In this day, I think any changes to HOA rules should require a supermajority vote to change. It shouldn't be easy for a few individuals to put draconian rules for others to follow. With computers, an HOA should be able to poll all individuals under the HOA for changes as opposed to having the rules made by a few board members.

[Zoomie1986]

52. One of my neighbors has chickens

They keep the coop clean and never let the birdies out of the backyard.

If I hadn't heard the rooster crowing at odd times (poor thing's schedule must be in tatters), I'd never know the chickens were there.

At least they're not eating small pets in my neighborhood like the coyotes. Or tearing roof shingles off houses like the raccoons. Or that skunk scaring me to death by trying to be friends when I'd rather keep a respectful distance, thanks very much (Why do you like me, Stinky?). Or irritating me to death by pecking at the tree right outside my kitchen window, and always when I'm in there cooking and cleaning. Or...

Well, the suburban animal kingdom is what it is. I try to understand that we humans invaded their territory, and now they're stuck with us as much as we are with them. But they're still a far greater overall nuisance than a backyard chicken coop.

[Think. Again.]

59. First rule of thumb....

Never buy into an HOA-run development.

[Scrivener7]

61. Good advice. Those of us happily living in HOA or board-run communities encourage those

who would insist that we change our agreed upon guidelines to suit them to stay away.

[Think. Again.]

62. A perfect agreement.

[marybourg]

64. This law was obviously lobbied for. Opponents can organize and lobby for its repeal.

[Cirsium]

66. HOAs and Racism

HOAs, white flight, suburban sprawl, redlining, the housing crisis and the collapse of public transportation are all closely related phenomena. They are all part on the "I've got mine" and "pull up the drawbridge" mentality, historically driven by racism and aided and abetted by the real estate and development industries, financial institutions, and the automotive and fossil fuel corporations.

Homeowners associations reflect systemic racism

Despite HOAs’ claims that they are designed to protect owners’ property values, provide services to residents and develop a sense of community, the history of HOAs—rooted in racism—highlights the dark morals and integrity of the institutions.

,,,

In an interview with Business Insider, Jonathan Rothwell, author of “A Republic of Equals,” shared his thoughts about anti-blackness and the homeowners association. “There is plenty of evidence from historic records and housing policy discussions that anti-Black racism motivated some of the strategies used by homeowner associations,” he said. “HOAs perpetuate racial and economic segregation by clocking fair participation in housing markets, thus denying wealth-generating opportunities and upward mobility for many Black people and lower-income families.”

https://spartanshield.org/36524/opinion/homeowners-associations-reflect-systemic-racism/

[jimfields33]

133. Well my HOA has 2800 single family homes.

Three club houses, three swimming pools and two golf courses among a lot of other amenities. Guess what? Blacks live here too. Oops.

[Cirsium]

134. right

That is akin to "some of my best friends..." or "what about Obama being president??" or "Oprah is a millionaire" as though therefore racism doesn't exist.

[jimfields33]

135. It really isn't when I offered up facts.

You are just disappointed.

[Cirsium]

139. uh....

Obama being president and Oprah is a millionaire are facts.

Why would you think I would be disappointed? Let's say that you proved that the history of HOAs has nothing to do with racism with your personal anecdotal example. Why would that disappoint me?

[jimfields33]

142. Because it goes against the very thoughts you have. You were hoping I'd come and join you in that

Thought.

[Cirsium]

154. no

Not what I was hoping.

[DBoon]

67. HOAs are in effect substitue governments without the controls that restrain actual governments

As a "private" entity, an HOA can enact restrictions that no local government would be allowed to.

In many parts of the US, it is impossible to buy a home that is not part of an HOA. They are impossible to avoid unless you are willing to move a great distance to an otherwise undesirable area.

[HelpImSurrounded]

168. THIS

This is the heart of the issue.

And so often, these same people who rant and rave and rail at government overreach are the first ones to create overreach in their own HOAs.

[PeaceWave]

75. I've heard of worse restrictions - No electric cars, must notify board when pregnant (Texas), etc.

No way in hell I could live like this. HOAs are basically mini oligarchies.

[BannonsLiver]

76. I'm okay with the HOA because it helps curtail trashy people who don't take care of their yards.

Whether people have a grass lawn or xeriscape their yard it needs to be taken care of.

[Scrivener7]

83. In my building, our board, AKA HOA, recently had to deal

with a serious flood. They negotiated with the insurance company, managed the cleanup, collected ideas from engineers for mitigation for future floods. This year, they also managed the repair of a failing retaining wall, minor roof repairs and threw a community holiday party. Among other things. I didn't have to lift a finger about any of that. They took care of it.

I guess they missed the part about the trashy people.

[Jirel]

77. HOAs shouldn't be allowed to exist.

Any limits on their power are good limits.

[Scrivener7]

97. Another one. I'm quite sure you are not seeing the irony of your post.

"All must live the way I want them to live!! No one should be allowed to have a HOA!!"

What if a community decides they want one?

You're doing exactly what people here are saying HOAs do.

[LeftInTX]

100. Community owned swimming pools should also be banned, because that is what you are advocating.

In Texas, we would need public pools every few miles to keep up with the demand.
The HOA's provide pools which the city can't provide. City is always closing pools and not maintaining them. The hours are limited and very crowded. Closest pool is often more than 10 miles away. And it's already closed for the summer.

Our HOA dues go to the pool maintenance. I live where it's hot. I like having a pool. Our pool is open year round. Pool is open 7 am - 9 pm. I can walk to my pool.

[SWBTATTReg]

78. Probably a good idea. Here in STLMO (the city), they do regulate the number of animals one can have, which makes

sense (you don't want to have 1000 chickens right next door). Thing is too, that we have lots of dogs and cats in the city (pets)...the cats usually roam free (most of them) so they might be a problem in attacking the chickens (maybe). Dogs, maybe not. I haven't seen too much of a problem w/ loose dogs in the city.

Fowl in the City of St. Louis
Ordinance 70608, effective 8/26/2017, allows for one fowl is permitted for every 4 square feet of indoor enclosure space and every 10 square feet of outdoor enclosure area provided to the animal, to a maximum of eight fowl per parcel.

No one shall raise or keep more than eight small farm animals within the City, unless a person owns at least 20,000 square feet of contiguous land, lives within one quarter mile from the property, and obtains a small farm animal permit by the Health Commissioner.

Chickens must be provided with a covered, predator-proof coop or cage or other shelter that is thoroughly ventilated, designed to be easily accessed and cleaned, and of sufficient size, as determined by the Health Commissioner to permit free movement of the animals. A minimum of two square feet per animal of space inside such a structure is required.

[CoopersDad]

81. I'm a member of my HOA Board, people are unwilling to serve but...

...it doesn't stop them from complaining.

Boards can be corrupt, boards can be helpful, I think the alternative of a dictatorial owner of apartments is less desirable.

Where I live Single Family Residences are unaffordable, Condos are easier to afford but come with HOAs and are worth it.

[Traildogbob]

85. Chickens fine. MAGA's no.

I live in one. My cottage was remodeled from a “chicken” barn to create an 800 square foot home. Livestock mostly not allowed.
I am the poor old man in the hood of well off folks.
Someone near has roosters. I like hearing em.
Seems that some of the more wealthy are allowed to break rules, like shooting, but I keep my guns quiet. Can’t afford to blow off rounds like the upper class. Got some real wealthy MAGA’S up here that like Trump are above the law.
Some rules are good. Some Corpwrstion real estate folks are buying up homes for short rentals and B&B’s. The Hood gubment are adopting rules to avoid real short term party stays. And Newley built homes have to pay non refundable $3,000 to protect and repair road damage from heavy equipment coming and going during constructing. This policy was just adopted after a second vote.
We all pay annual road maintenance for snow, repairs and R/W mowing.
I would like some rules on light pollution. If these Florida transplants are scared of the dark, stay in Florida. Street lights on the mountain side suck.
We have basically only a few and are out of my sight. For now!
But people Moving in, know the rules before hand . So if it’s not for them, move on along.
I would be for banning trumpers and their array of flags.
But overall, this HOA is OK. I keep to myself mostly.
And follow the rules. And I am one of very very few that do my own yard work.
Most rely on Armies of those caravans of insane asylum brown folk to do all their outside work.

[misanthrope]

88. It depends on the language and terms of whatever contract you sign

I don't know much about HOAs -- except the tales about them often make me roll my eyes -- but my assumption is that members would have to sign something in writing to make it legally binding.

[LeftInTX]

89. We have the same in Texas.

It hasn't been an issue. It only allows chickens, but not roosters.

They're having fits, but I don't think there's gonna be issues. Now if they allow roosters, there might be trouble.

We've got wild peacocks (peafowl) running around here. Life goes on.

Deer are more trouble than chickens. Deer tend to proliferate upscale neighborhoods.

[ecstatic]

93. lol!

Yes, if they're noisy or unfenced.

[relayerbob]

101. And here I thought the next word would be "exist"

[bucolic_frolic]

102. I think a lot of things

People keeping deadly spiders and snakes are a problem too. They keep getting loose!

[Conjuay]

103. I was a board member for eight years

I only signed up because the president was very shady. Unannounced meetings in someone's kitchen, holding the meetings during the middle of the day, (on weekdays when everyone else was at work,) no public notification when the meetings would be held, no public disclosure of the agenda - you know, BS.

Well, we found out from someone when and where this private club was holding their next get together. Working as a copier repair guy, I was able to run up about 680 fliers, and a few of us went door to door to those six hundred families. It was a beautiful thing to see... several hundred people milling around the 'hosts' lawn that evening.

We managed to chase most of the old board off, and I tried to be fair handed and level headed for the next eight years.

Then the "TeaBagger" movement arrived, carrying all their mental disorders with them.
I did the best I could for as long as I could, and got out.

The point of the ramble is that an HOA is fair and reasonable IF ITS board members remember these are you neighbors you're dealing with.
I know one person in another community who was sited for having too many flower pots on a wrap around porch- Probably twelve plants in all.

[RidinWithHarris]

105. Bad HOAs: The gateway drug to Libertarianism

I have mixed feelings about HOAs.

Some are truly awful, not only getting way up in your business with an incredibly picky level of detail about colors, lawns and gardens and trees, pets, etc., but some should-be-criminal bullshit where they can seize your property for pennies on the dollar and massively screw you over financially.

On the other hand, I'm pretty happy that my own property value won't be dragged down because a neighbor decides to paint their house day-glow orange with pink polka dots, then mount giant spinning flamingos on their roof.

True story: I once lived about a mile away from a house where someone covered the whole front of their house with bedraggled teddy bears. Glad that wasn't my neighbor!

I don't think I'd be very happy having chickens being raised next door, unless they're quieter and less smelly than I'd imagine. The typical lot in my neighborhood is 1/5-1/4 of an acre, so we're all physically close to our neighbors.

[Conjuay]

106. Something worth thinking about...

Your HOA documents are probably cut and paste extracts from previous (other) HOA documents. I would have to think the documents in our community, for example, are rehashed docs from the late 70's. Much of what was considered good practice back then can not be considered reasonable today.
Lawns require lots of petrochemicals, excessive amounts of water and FAR TOO MUCH work. What was considered 'the gold standard' (a perfect lawn) is now viewed by many as wasteful. Florida has been in a drought situation since 1996. To continue to waste the most precious and important resource we have so people can look at a 'pretty' lawn, is the pinnacle of wastefulness.

A lot of these outdated requirements need to be dropped and forgotten. Grow wildflowers instead, the bees will thank you.

[LeftInTX]

108. In Texas. HOAs cannot prohibit drought resistant landscaping

Texas Property Code Section 202.007 gives homeowners the right to xeriscape their properties without facing restrictions from their homeowners associations (HOAs). Xeriscaping is the practice of using drought-resistant plants and landscaping to conserve water and reduce the need for yard maintenance. The law prevents HOAs from prohibiting xeriscaping options like:
Water-efficient irrigation systems, such as drip irrigation
Rainwater harvesting systems
Composting vegetation
Leaving grass clippings on the lawn
Drought-resistant landscaping

We also are allowed to store rain water. As long as things are not a hazard, causing vermin etc, Everything pretty much goes. Homeowners do want their properties to look nice whether they have lawns or xeriscape.


We have such strict drought restrictions that much of the St. Augustine died. Bermuda survives, but looks like crap in the summer and winter. It tends to develop weeds also. I've got xeriscape and it looks better.

I don't think many of our old codes are enforced. We have the "no-clothes-line" rule. I'm sure there are plenty with clothes lines.


The main advantage of living in an HOA neighbor is the pool. I think that's why they're popular in Texas. Otherwise, the city pools are total crap and already closed for the summer. I hate to say it but the city pools are about as pleasant as the kid's free summer lunch program, which consisted of green bologna sandwiches

[Conjuay]

111. but looks like crap in the summer and winter

Well yeah, that was what I was thinking, but I've seen some gorgeous wildflower and prairie gardens on line, and I got them stuck in my head. The problem is, of course, that the lawn types view this as unacceptable - "IT LOOKS LIKE WEEDS!"

[LeftInTX]

122. I have alot of small bushes and shrubs. Wildflowers look better if they have evergreen shrubs as backdrop.

Here in Texas, I've got rosemary and salvia, boxwoods in the shade. Dwarf yaupon holly also works well. In Central and South Florida natal plum and ixora work well. I've also got a boatload of sago palms, yuccas, sabal minor, med fan palms, lantana, purple heart (formally known as purple wandering jew), skullcap, blue plumbago, crinums, turk's cap, liriope, dwarf mexican petunia, a few grasses, african irises, aloe, asian jasmine, fall asters, crape myrtles. I've also got a lot of shrubs like viburnums, yaupon holly, ,texas mountain laurels, mexican olives. You name it. I don't do annuals because they're too much work. Most everything is pretty much
"evergreen" on my list.

Sometimes the aloe and crinums get burnt back, but it's short lived. Much more can be grown in Florida. Most of my list can be grown throughout Florida.

Rosemary needs better siting in FL because it likes things dry. Yuccas can take alot of water. Crinums are more or less tropical. Blue plumbago is always a favorites. Turk's cap is native to Florida. So is yaupon holly, sabal minor, numerous yuccas are native to Florida. But Central and South FL can grow all sorts of stuff like bromeliads, heliconias, gingers etc. North Florida can grow acid loving plants like camelias and azaelas (native to the US)

I have used University of Florida's resources when planning my own landscape.
They are the best in the Land Grant University in the South and are the region's ag HQ

https://sfyl.ifas.ufl.edu/lawn-and-garden/florida-friendly-landscaping/

[mahina]

107. We have a rule against chickens.

Meanwhile there are feral chickens here. We already have chickens.

[sakabatou]

114. Over 20 years ago, there was a house that did have chickens. No rooster IIRC.

[msongs]

119. primary purpose of an HOA is to maintain the common area - concrete, landscaping, roofs etc nt

[LeftInTX]

123. I know. They're not a Nazi concept..LOL

Everyone hears a few bad horror stories and assumes that is what they are.

In Texas, if you don't wanna build a pool in your backyard and you want convenient access to a pool, a neighborhood HOA is the only way you will get a neighborhood pool. And it's hot down here. The city pools are already closed and are about as much fun as green bologna sandwiches the kids would get with the free summer lunch program.

[Joinfortmill]

126. Lol.

[beaglelover]

128. I never thought I'd like living in an HOA community but we moved into one a year ago June and it's quite nice actually.

There are a ton of rules that you need to study, but the rules make sense and make for a very pleasant community. When guests visit they call our community things like Shangra La, etc. It's really beautiful and the homeowners really take pride in their homes and yards. I also love that the HOA negotiated with Comcast so we get cable TV with the premium channels and the fastest internet for like $60 a month. I hate their TV product after having DirecTV for years, but their internet is very decent and I was paying close to $200 a month for it where we used to live.

We've violated a few rules and have received nastygrams from the HOA but no fines, just warnings. So far, so good!

[doc03]

131. How about banning HOAs nt

[Skittles]

136. I'd rather have chickens as neighbors over flag-waving, bible-thumping MAGAts

YES INDEED

[hunter]

137. I think political entities with any kind of enforcement power representing less than 100,000 people should be disolved.

This would include counties, cities, school boards, police departments and, yes, homeowners associations.

The code enforcement in my 100,000+ city is pretty good and they don't tell you what colors you can paint your house.

I've been nicked twice for neglecting "project cars" in my driveway for too long, which was irritating, but I don't think unjust. Pay the fine, finish the car or get rid of it. That's not a bad rule.

I have neighbors who have made decorating and landscaping choices I might disagree with, but hey, it's their home and they can do what makes them happy. Who am I to complain about basketball hoops and such? We had a basketball hoop too before our children moved away.

Our own garden is somewhat optimized to please the birds and butterflies, less so for "curb appeal." We never use pesticides of herbicides. There's no lawn, we ripped that out as soon as we moved in. Some people would call it "unkempt" but it's not violating any city ordinances.

[Abolishinist]

156. Not completely sure what you mean.

Are you saying that Yuma, AZ, for example, should not have a school board? Or a Police Department?

If so, why? And how did you come up with your magic number of 100,000?

[Zeitghost]

158. Who knew

We had so many Libertarians on DU?

[Scrivener7]

165. I've noticed over the years that DUers are astonishingly ignorant and elitist about

Last edited Wed Aug 14, 2024, 11:24 AM - Edit history (1)

cooperative and high density living arrangements. They're very fond of insisting that some nightmare scenario they saw on tiktok is the norm for such arrangements. It's pretty weird.

Don't even ask them about apartment living. I live in a great pre-war co-op apartment in a beautiful apartment neighborhood of 15 buildings. The oldest building turns 100 years old next year, so the neighborhood is pretty established. It's environmentally great, it's very social, and it's a very easy and pleasant way to live. And yet, I have been told by DUers that my living arrangement just can't work over the long term, and it's worse than living out of a shopping cart.

[LeftInTX]

174. It's funny! Most don't live in a HOA and have heard a few horror stories, so they assume that's the way it is.

[Texasgal]

177. I don't think that's true.

There are many here whom have had real life experiences with HOA's. Some positive and some negative. Including myself! Not just what they saw on TICKTOK? ?? WTF are you even talking about?

Seriously INSULTING and rude.

[hunter]

178. There's a difference between high density co-op urban housing...

... and Homeowner Associations that were created in reaction to fair housing legislation of the 'fifties and the 'sixties especially.

My grandparents house, built in the nineteen-twenties, had a deed restriction that explicitly prohibited selling or renting the home to people of "the Negro Race," and strongly suggested that the neighborhood would remain a Whites Only Christian paradise in perpetuity. There were some hints in the sales literature that other sorts of people might be tolerated if they looked and acted White enough. Apparently the developer didn't want to exclude too many potential customers.

After theses sorts of deed restrictions were outlawed, and especially after the Fair Housing act of 1968, many developers set up very restrictive HOAs to reassure buyers they'd never have to live next door to a "Colored" person or swim in the same community pool as them.

The HOA became an implicit rather than explicit form of redlining, a notice that "certain kinds" of people would not be welcome there. Residents were expected to conform to some very, very White U.S.A. standards and cultural norms.

Personally, I think we should be rebuilding all our cities, turning them into attractive affordable places where car ownership is unnecessary. I'm not talking about Soviet style apartment blocks or decrepit housing owned by distant landlords and corporate investors. I'm talking about people who are directly invested in the neighborhoods where they live.

In general the people with the smallest environmental footprints live in cities, don't own cars, and eat a mostly vegetarian diets. Quite a few of them are happier than the average U.S. automobile-centric suburban homeowner too.

[Scrivener7]

180. Yes. In the past, homeowners did often band together to redline an area.

Though I know in my city, that was done by neighborhood and real estate agents and city planners and had nothing to do with HOA communities.

Nowadays, though, HOA communities are often the most diverse in an area because they tend to be more economical than the typical single family home community, and they give more of us access to home ownership. I know that's true in my area.

[hunter]

175. I'm not saying that at all.

Rather, smaller governmental agencies representing 100,000 people or less should be merged with those of the surrounding area to form single agencies representing larger populations.

Here in California many smaller cities, school districts, hospital districts, etc. were created to exclude people who were not white, or to protect especially noxious industries that poisoned the environment and abused their workers.

If you are a noxious industry it's pretty handy to own all the local officials. Same sort of thing if you are a racist who doesn't tolerate non-white neighbors.

The small city I grew up in was 99% white and kept that way by a police department that harassed people who were not white and city regulations that made life very uncomfortable for anyone who didn't have the money to keep up appearances.

It was the epitome of "white flight." Having their own small city allowed wealthier white people to isolate themselves from social problems that they themselves were largely responsible for. If they'd been forced to remain part of the greater community they'd have had incentives to face these problems themselves.

The cops in the nearby big city were known to be vicious towards certain minorities. In the town I grew up in we could pretend we were above all that because those minorities were simply excluded from the community. Incidents of extreme police misconduct in our small city were simply covered up, buried much deeper than they could be in a larger city.

In spite of all the happy propaganda we are constantly bombarded with, small town U.S.A. is largely rotten. We don't need small town school boards controlled by religious freaks, small town police departments controlled by violent racists, or small town city governments owned by noxious industries.

Anything a small city government or homeowners association can do a larger city government can do more equitably.

[TheKentuckian]

138. The automatic answer is no because I don't believe in HOA's at all.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

151. Easy solution

Don't buy a home in an HOA. I never would.

[OAITW r.2.0]

152. Amazing thread, this has touched a lot of people in HOA environments.

Can't imagine living that way. In Maine, lots of folks display everything they have ever purchased...and no longer need....on their front lawn. HOA would seem communistic to these folks. I know, I was on the local planning board for a few years in the 90's.

[Kaleva]

162. It isn't just HOAs that ban chickens

I live in a small town and it took me a year to get a variance approved allowing me to keep a maximum of four hens.

[Marthe48]

166. As I understand your post the new law won't let HOAs ban chickens?

HOAs have a lot of power concerning fees, raising fees, foreclosing for nonpayment of fees and so on. Seems like that kind of thing is what should be scrutinized and limited. That's more concerning than chicken feed!

[karynnj]

185. There are various types of HOAs and that might affect the answer.

The one thing in common is that there are documents that can be read before buying that establish the rules. Basic provisions in many HOAs often require supermajorities to change.

In the case of condos, there are common elements that are owned jointly by all owners. In all condos I have seen, unless the chickens are kept on a porch or deck, they would be on common elements. In most condos there are restrictions, often including a one pet limit.

Years ago, someone explained at a condo meeting that before he and his partner bought, they were told by friends they needed to consider if they were condo people, meaning that they could accept the rules in exchange for positives they could see in the community.

One question here would be if there were animal rules before the people wanting chickens bought in. It makes a difference.