Not gonna hate on Chris Hayes.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

Chris Hayes was correct, albeit awkward, in describing Joe Biden's "ego" according to Webster's Dictionary

The definition of ego, according to Websters-Merriam Dictionary is: "the self especially as contrasted with another self or the world"

Joe Biden has a BIG, loving, not-taking-any-bullshit, stand-up-and fight-for-what's-right" ego or self. He's a scrapper and will not back down. He got pissed at trump's denigration of our Military and Country. Biden took on that big soulless, cruel, self-serving, fucked-up ego of trump. Biden WON!!!!

"Big Ego" is now associated w/an over inflated sense of self. Which is not what Chris Hayes meant. NOT GONNA HATE ON THE GUY.

[Prairie Gates]

1. Love Chris Hayes

Bronx what up?

[no_hypocrisy]

2. Allow me to parse just a little.

Ego can mean sense of self, self-awareness, self-esteem, self-confidence.

And ego can also imply negative exaggeration of self, e.g., egomaniac, egocentric, selfish, inflated ego.

I got the perception that Chris Hayes was referring to the latter, i.e., Joe Biden acting from his pride instead of his self-assuredness.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

7. Thank you for your perception, but respectfully disagree. I don't think he meant Biden was prideful. I think he used the

word ego in that Biden is ready and unafraid to take on the very, very big, hateful, and damaged ego of trump.

But it was awkward in that "big ego" is now associated w/negativity.

[no_hypocrisy]

8. Understood and respected.

[onenote]

18. Did you actually listen to Hayes' comments.

Your perception is a misperception.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19357575

[no_hypocrisy]

21. I read another post. Can't remember if it was DU or X.

The impression I got was "ego" wasn't used in a neutral connotation. Almost a criticism.

If you can find it on Youtube, I'll be happy to watch and listen to his voice inflections, facial expressions, etc. and will eat crow if I got the wrong impression.

[onenote]

22. My post contains a link to a post embedded with his comments.

[no_hypocrisy]

85. OK, I watched and I listened.

My takeaway is that Chris Hayes' statements about the tremendous ego of Joe Biden weren't the best choice of words. While admittedly ambiguous and harmless on one hand, it also suggested hubris, which I don't believe Biden has and projects. The statements could be interpreted both ways. And it did strike a nerve among the other commentators, indicating that the words weren't necessarily innocuous. The words provoked comments from them.

[Rebl2]

38. That

may be the definition, but I think when most people hear the word ego, they think of a person who is egotistical and self absorbed, maybe narcissistic.

[hlthe2b]

3. Bullsit. Comparing Biden's ego with that of Trump as though identical? WTF is wrong with him?

I agree with nearly everyone giving him hell on this x-thread after he arrogantly "doubled down" Scroll down the replies if you want to see what the majority think. I personally like the "In a world of Katy Turs, be a Lawrence O'Donnell"... and the following:

Marked Safe From Being in a Cult🐝
@exelephant2017
Would it have killed you to just focus on his message of the evening without inserting your personal dislike for him?

Link to tweet

ALL HE HAD TO DO IS APOLOGIZE BUT HIS OWN EGO WOULDN'T LET HIM. He deserves whatever comes, IMO.

[WSHazel]

4. I don't view Hayes' comment as so negative

It implies confidence and belief in one self. These are traits that help anyone be successful in any field. I have no problem with Hayes' comment.

[hlthe2b]

6. Comparing his ego equally with that of Trump's? Good gawd. I am glad you don't have problem with

such equalizing with Trump. Close to 99,999% of the rest of sure do.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

16. Your reply is gaslighting & false.

You said: "Comparing his ego equally with that of Trump's?" - I did not do this? Are you saying I did?

You said: "Good gawd." - Such outrage! - so DARVO

You said: "I am glad you don't have problem with such equalizing with Trump." - What do I not have a problem with? Are you accusing me of something? Are you saying I'm equalizing Biden and Trump? If so then you are trying to gaslight me.

You said: "Close to 99,999% of the rest of sure do." Uh-oh - you're making me an outsider, "an other", and you're now speaking for 99,999% (did you mean 99.999%) of DU'ers or who are you referring to?

I don't like being gaslighted.

[hlthe2b]

44. Attacking me or any othet DUer

Is totally unwarranted.

I don’t agree but I will not attack YOU nor acuse YOU of gaslighting. Maybe that is customary on other forums you frequent?
Have a nice day…

[DiamondShark]

86. Huh?

You said: "Comparing his ego equally with that of Trump's?" - I did not do this? Are you saying I did?

That is the comparison made by Chris Hayes Monday night. When you get a chance you should watch the video.

[onenote]

25. He compared Joe's ego with that of every president. So did Rachel, FWIW.

[Emrys]

17. I'd have some sympathy with what you say and be prepared to cut Hayes some tentative slack,

if he hadn't, when cornered, DOUBLED DOWN.

It's there in the quote, for heaven's sake:

Lol are people really mad that I said the president of the US has a big ego? This a *definitional requirement* for being President of the United States! It's precisely *why* it's so hard to let go of power and why it's so remarkable that he did! Which was the point I made.

Hayes is and was absolutely not using "ego" in its positive connotations people have set out above, but conflating it with the idea of hubris: "excessive pride or self-confidence."

Biden is a proud man. He has much to be proud about. But that's never come across as his prime drive. He wasn't known as the poorest legislator in Congress for nothing, he didn't offer Obama unstinting loyalty and support for nothing, he hasn't handed over the reins to Harris with exceedingly good grace for nothing.

He's a rare bird, and in these cynical times, it's hard to trust appearances, but with Biden it's always been what you see is what you get - sometimes, as he in his humility has acknowledged, for better or worse. That's what makes him remarkable, even to an old cynic like me.

The media, apparently including Hayes, can't process that.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

23. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, but we must agree to disagree. nt

[claudette]

29. Next to

Lincoln, Biden is the least egotistucal Presudent.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

9. "Comparing Biden's ego with that of Trump as though identical" Is that what Chris Hayes did? Respectfully, I did not get

that, not hear that.

[hlthe2b]

12. Respectfully, you NEED to go listen to the entire segment. Not the short clip.

Even if you want to give him the benefit of the doubt, the fact he addressed those upset about what they heard--on his twitter-X account with LOL and then doubled down makes the entire episode inexcusable. It is clear he has never liked Biden and that he could not put aside his bias for this one night is just beyond excuse.

I've defended him in the past--including his very nasty attempts to promote the Tara Reid lies years ago. That should have told all of us that he had no intention of being fair nor putting aside his biases toward Biden.

GO, Lawrence!

[AnotherMother4Peace]

20. Respectfully, I did listen in real time. I felt the awkwardness immediately. I think the whole panel did.

I admire Lawrence O'Donnell for gently trying to help Chris Hayes out in what he was trying to express. No, not going to hate on him.

[hlthe2b]

51. Obviously you missed a LoT

But don’t go find it and check yourself…🙄it must be nearly EVERYONE else on this thread who is wrong.

[Cha]

71. So did Hayes compare Pres Biden's ego to the TSF?!

[hlthe2b]

75. After commenting on Biden's ego, he then goes into detail about Trump's--never drawing a distinction...

I chose to ignore his years earlier attacks on Biden over the Tara Reid bullshit. But... Sometimes bias and true feelings come bubbling out.

[Cha]

78. Thank you. And Why did Hayes use "Titanic Ego".. That was a Tragic Disasster..

He's such an asshole.

[Oopsie Daisy]

13. Chris Hayes is so full of shit! He resents Biden for robbing someone else of the nomination *

* whom Hayes felt "deserved" it because it was "their turn". His hostility has been on display for quite a while, and it's disappointing to see that he's being defended for his obviously intentional insult. As I read the feeds and see the defenses of him on Twitter and elsewhere... there can be little doubt that these individuals likely share Hayes's feelings.

Hayes doubles-down and tries to explain what he was trying to say and in the process, he just makes matters worse.

He didn't need the additional explanations or justifications. His point was perfectly clear THE FIRST TIME he opened his pie-hole! Fuck you, Chris Hayes!

Apologize or resign.

[betsuni]

34. Absolutely.

He idolizes some people and assumes the worst of others without evidence, not good for a journalist. He can be very good when he doesn't let his feelings and assumption of being right get the better of him.

He said Biden has a titanic ego. Titanic! That's an insult.

[Cha]

72. Yeah, Hayes is Full of Bullshhit.. and No One is Asking Anyone to hate on him

He's a Gaslit Asshole. I don't care what anyone else thinks.

TY

[onenote]

19. Rachel Maddow agreed that presidents have big egos.

She ranked egos as Senators, Cable News hosts, Presidents. it was a lighthearted comment based on an element of truth. She certainly wasn't bothered by Chris Hayes' comments.

[Oopsie Daisy]

37. She was clearly horrified and was trying to lighten the mood with some *

* self-effacing "humor" (ie: Oh, we have big egos too, don't forget journalists!) Please. It was a lame effort. E for effort, and at least she recognized his mistake and how it would go over. I'm grateful that he was called out clearly and forcefully (albeit politely) by O'Donnell.

[hlthe2b]

50. Wrong. She was horrified but trying to defuse

The situation because she knew Lawrence WAS PISSED— but so too Nicole and Jen Psaki—all who had just delivered eliquent comments attesting to what a singularly selfless and goo sacrificing man he was/is.

[onenote]

52. How do you know she was "horrified?" I don't think she was.

And we both have the same information on which to base our opinions.

[hlthe2b]

53. Her face. I have rewatched multiple times

As I suspect have others.

[onenote]

61. I also have watched it several times. In fact, I'm the one who posted a video of the exchange in this thread

What I see from Rachel while Hayes was speaking is the following: a poker face, a smile, and a nod. FWIW, I also see Hayes nodding in agreement when O'Donnell is speaking.

But each person can draw their own conclusions. Here's the video again. The relevant segment starts six minutes in.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219357279

[hlthe2b]

63. She quickly interjected and her face was tense but as is her way she used self-deprecating humor to diffuse

You see what you want to, she was nervously interjecting.

Most men do not know women's body language-- and granted I have no idea re: your gender. But, I sure as hell do as it is an essential part of my clinical work to observe the patient.

[Oopsie Daisy]

66. You and I watched the SAME clip and arrived at the SAME conclusion.

Thank you!

[Cha]

70. Yes, Hayes' EGO Won't let him "apologize".. When Called out for Pushing Tara Reade's LIES..

he Attacked his Viewers.

Link to tweet

And, Now he's Scrambling on the Defensive.. Yeah L Fucking OL,

[hlthe2b]

76. Yes... And after tons of blowback, he went on his X-account this am and LOL over the outrage while

doubling down on his comments and "being right, ya know..."

Someone downstream suggested after a day of excoriation he might have gotten a clue and tried to back pedal later today. I don't know. I certainly didn't see it, but I did see his post this morning.

[Cha]

79. yeah While Hayes is Doubling Down he's Showing Off who has the Fucking Titanic EGO.

[awesomerwb1]

5. He can go **** himself

Never liked this bro.

[brush]

10. Talk about having a big ego, inserting such an opinionated opinion of a person into your commentary...

shows quite an inflated ego in itself.

Especially about Joe Biden, who despite the many accomplishments of his admin, he rarely too bows or mention them, unlike trump who bragged/lied incessantly about his so-called achievements.

[SocialDemocrat61]

11. F*** Chris Hayes

This is Democratic Underground. We support and defend democrats here, not overpaid, egotistical, corporate media shills who lie about and attack democrats.

[ms liberty]

14. Corporate shill

You don't know anything about Chris Hayes history as a journalist, do you?

[SocialDemocrat61]

43. His history is irrelevant

to what he is now.

[ms liberty]

15. Yea, he doesn't need to apologize to anyone. I understood what he was saying

I'm not gonna hate on him either.

[Nanjeanne]

24. I can't imagine making a big deal of anything any tv pundit makes. But it seems like having a big

ego is a necessary job requirement for any politician. Which is why Biden stepping aside is a magnificent gesture to try to save our democracy. Not many would do the same.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

26. To me Joe Biden has a Big, Beautiful, Generous, Loving, Country-First, Democracy-First Ego. LOVE THAT MAN!

You Said: "Not many would do the same." I agree.

[claudette]

27. How do you know he meant it that way?

He didn't say that's how he meant it. I think he meant ego in the worst way.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

31. Chris supports Joe Biden, but was awkward in his expression. You & I must agree to disagree. nt

[claudette]

32. That's one strange way to show his support

Especially on a night of such significance

[AnotherMother4Peace]

33. It sounds like you might think it was a put-down or malicious. I don't. I think his words were well meaning & in support

of Joe Biden but expressed awkwardly. We disagree, which happens sometimes.

[claudette]

35. ??

[AnotherMother4Peace]

40. ????

[Emrys]

36. I think we have a case of what happens when hacks need to fill dead air.

We see and suffer it in sports commentary all the time. It can be infuriating and a waste of oxygen and airtime and add nothing to appreciation or understanding of events we can see and hear perfectly well with our own senses.

It's an approach ill suited to any intelligent or illuminating discussion of politics, but that's the state of the media nowadays - like Trump, there's dead air to fill, and too often any old garbage will do, and it saves them having to talk about the more important and harder or potentially boring stuff.

The speeches at the convention so far have spoken elequently for themselves. And in his speech Biden himself deliberately and pointedly talked about the question of his ego and how he might have felt about how things turned out.

If you or Hayes don't or don't want to believe him, that's your prerogative. But he told you who he is.

After all these years and in the absence of any counter-evidence in his concrete actions, one or the other or both of you might finally want to have a go at taking him at face value.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

41. Neither Chris Hayes, nor anyone one on that panel last night are "hacks"

And I’ve watched Chris Hayes many times and many times he “has shown me who he is” and that is always in support of Joe Biden.

[Emrys]

45. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, but we must agree to disagree. nt

[claudette]

47. Except last night

The night of President Biden's special seech was NOT the time for Hayes to accuse Biden of having an enormous ego. That is not support in my opinion.

[Cha]

77. And, a Bias Pops Out...

PJB has such a "Titanic Ego" he stepped aside to Endorse his VP Kamala Harris for President.

Why did he use "Titanic"... That was a Tragic Disaster.

[SocialDemocrat61]

54. When did Hayes say he supports Bide

What is the exact quote? And please include a link to a credible source. Thanks.

[2naSalit]

28. I was thinking of...

Sending him a thesaurus. He could have used a different term.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

30. LOL - yes agree "He could have used a different term." but not malicious. NOT GONNA HATE ON THE GUY. nt

[appmanga]

39. You don't get to that office without a huge ego.

Make no mistake about that. If you're going to be successful at anything, you have a good sized ego. Many of the most famous people in the world have huge egos. The problem is most of them have that ego with little self-esteem. That's when there's an issue.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

42. Thank you. Well said. Nt

[kcr]

46. Chris Hayes pushed the Tara Reade bullshit

I think it's clear what he meant and it's nothing good.

[ms liberty]

48. I see a lot of defensiveness in this thread around the idea of Joe having a big ego

But I've been following Biden's career since BEFORE the Clarence Thomas hearings, and any notion that he does not have an ego is off the mark and revisionist history.

I've been a supporter and on record here as a Biden fan for my whole 20+ years here. I was bitterly opposed to him stepping down, until he did and saved the whole damn game in the process. And yea, Biden got us here, to this awesome place. But let's be real: He didn't want to step down at first or not run for reelection again because he thought he was the only person who could beat the convicted felon and rapist. That's really just the latest in a life history of Joe having an ego and showing us. Let's not deny it because damn, he's earned it. Look at what he's accomplished.
I love Joe, but anyone who thinks he doesn't have an ego has not been paying attention for very long. Of course he does, and Chris Hayes didn't put him at the top of the chart, he put him in the middle.

I'd love it if we could not do this set-our-hair-on-fire-over-silly-stuff crap for one damn election season. Just one.

[hlthe2b]

56. You see what you want to see

A lot of us have watched him that many years or more and disagree strongly.

I will never understand why some DUers think this disparaging of Biden on DU is just fine—or defending someone who equated his ego to Trump’s is no big deal. Of course I believe in the TOS rules here.

Well I find it sickening but I guess I will finally have to start using “ignore” after 23 years here.


Damn! So damned ugly!!!!


But you say it is just okee dokie, so it must be.

[SocialDemocrat61]

57. I find interesting

that those who are defending Hayes are revising what he actually said. He didn’t say Biden has a big ego, Hayes said Biden has a titanic ego. Very different comment.

And they ignore that both Rachel Maddow and Lawrence O’Donnell immediately pushed back on the remark.

[hlthe2b]

59. Exactly

[ms liberty]

60. You seem angry. You've tried to fight with every DU'er on this thread that you disagree with

If you don't understand it, I cannot help you to understand.

Please do put me on ignore. I'm not really interested in further conversation with you. Your vituperative behavior in this thread has been quite enough for me, thanks.

[hlthe2b]

65. I AM angry. Biden does not deserve the disparagement he got at Haye's "hands" nor that which some are using

to cover their own.

Read the TOS. Even if Biden were not still President, he is still a Democrat in leadershhip--this is way out of bounds.

Biden is more deserving of respect than any modern President for this sacrifice alone. Sadly, you and a few vocal others don't see that. Comparing his ego to Trump's? Damned, right I am mad and that IS exactly what Hayes DID, no matter how much you defend him.

Unbelievable.

[ms liberty]

69. Yea, again it's not a ToS violation.

To talk about what one of the talking heads said on the teevee. It's not a ToS violation to say that Biden has an ego, because he does, and so does every other person who's ever run for POTUS - and it's not disparaging to say that, either. It's not disparaging to have those conversations within a discussion that also includes contrasting us/Dems with them/Repukes. Some of us can engage in conversation on subjects of complexity and nuance without taking affront or acting aggrieved. You don’t like Chris Hayes, then don't watch him. He's not obligated to parrot any of us at DU's views.
But what you're also doing is being accusatory and combative to anyone who posts a reply you disagree with, in a thread you didn't start. So, whatever you're accusing me of in your reply here, why don't you just come right out and say it? You're overreacting all over the place anyway so hey, why confine yourself to thinly veiled accusations?

[hlthe2b]

74. It IS against DU rules--conveniently found at the bottom of this page under TOS. Maybe read them one day.

Don't bash Democratic public figures
Do not post disrespectful nicknames, insults, or highly inflammatory attacks against any Democratic public figures. Do not post anything that could be construed as bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for any Democratic general election candidate, and do not compare any Democratic general election candidate unfavorably to their general election opponent(s).

Why we have this rule: Our forum members support and admire a wide variety of Democratic politicians and public figures. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but our members don't expect to see Democrats viciously denigrated on this website. This rule also applies to Independents who align themselves with Democrats (eg: Bernie Sanders).

[ms liberty]

81. Except your view of "unfavorable" is at odds with many others in this thread, including me.

And I'm done with you.

[hlthe2b]

82. GREAT!!!!!

Apparently comparisons of Biden as having "TITANIC EGO" to Trump are complements in your estimation. Not for most of us. So, you might keep that in mind.

[dlilafae]

49. Chris Hayes

... is alright. He's tells the truth. We should keep him. He's very passionate about politics.

[Docreed2003]

55. I think you're basically correct

What Hayes was saying is that performing the task of President of the United States requires a "titanic ego" and to give that up, to pass that torch on to the next generation required incredible humility. That was the point Hayes was making, no matter how awkward it came out live.

[hlthe2b]

58. He referenced Trump at the same damned time

Making zero effort to distinguish between the two so NO.

I forgave him his abysmal use of Tara Reid against Biden years ago but on this he’s shown his true colors. As one responded to his arrogant double down (laughing) X-post, “ be the Lawrence on MSNBC, not the Katy Tur”…

At a minimum he owes the audience an apology— but will his own ego allow that?

[onenote]

62. He referenced Trump in order to distinguish Biden's sense of service from Trump's total self-interest.

How was that a bad thing?

[hlthe2b]

64. I am done with those on this thread conveniently using/yet denying Haye's disgusting comments/innuendo

to (too cute by half) disparage Biden. DONE.

[Docreed2003]

67. He's been active on social media explaining himself

I'm not saying the guy is perfect. He could have expressed himself better on the moment, for sure, and he's paying the price for his awkward statement. At the end of the day, I think he's largely an ally on the media for our side.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

73. In the spirit of Kamala's "joyful campaign" I thank you. Your quote: "...to pass that torch on to the next generation

required incredible humility." - so true. I love that man, & truly believe that he will be remembered as one of the greatest presidents of all time. President Biden is, after all, saving democracy.

[Docreed2003]

80. Agree completely!

[Cha]

68. Bullfeathers .. Chris Hayes is an Asshole.. Especially When he Pushed the Tara Reade LIES and

when Called on it.. Attacked the Viewers.

Link to tweet

[AnotherMother4Peace]

83. Bull Feathers?!? Kinda harsh there eh? It appears that Chris Hayes took a lot of criticism back when

he made that statement in April 2020. I vaguely remember the brouhaha. That was the beginning of the pandemic. I was most likely preoccupied with that mess and family members in Seattle - complete nightmare.

I don't blame people for their criticism, and for not forgetting or forgiving Hayes for, what seemed like, giving credibility to the Tara Reade accusations. Hell, I probably would still be looking at the guy side eyed. I did a little research and found his explanation from May 2020. I'll let people google that if they're interested. I'll leave it there (actually, I think he should have used better judgement).

I'm honored that such a long time DU member respond to my post, even it's with "Bull Feathers"

[Cha]

84. Fucking Chris Hayes has had it out for Biden and

last night was No fucking Exception. Freaking Double Down Asshole..