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geniph

(12,599 posts)
Thu Aug 22, 2024, 03:26 PM Aug 2024

The mockery of Gus Walz is almost a caricature of toxic masculinity

And yes, I'm aware some of the mockery is coming from women, but to me, that just emphasizes my point - they've internalized these ridiculous gender-policing norms, too. The idea that the only emotion it's permissible for a boy or a man to show is anger is where so much of the toxicity comes from. So there are kids right now, watching their parents mock a neurodivergent boy for being so overcome with love and pride for his dad that he cries, and what will those kids take away from this? Must not show genuine love and pride, must not be so filled with emotion that it comes out as TEARS, oh, heavens to Betsy, what would the neighbors think?

When you don't allow people to freely express genuine emotions of love (or grief, or whatever), but you do allow them to freely express anger, when you even encourage the expression of unbridled rage but no other emotion, is it any surprise that all that repressed emotion comes out as violence? Sometimes the violence is directed inward, and those are the ones who commit suicide. Sometimes it's outward, and we've all seen too much of that.

Please don't teach your children not to cry. Teach them how to manage their emotions, yes, but please don't repress their expression altogether. We have had so many generations now with this fucked-up idea that men aren't allowed to cry. Sometimes venting emotion via tears is the most cathartic thing one can do. And I say that as a woman who almost never cries - but I was brought up in a truly fucked-up, repressed-emotion way, too. I know the damage it does.

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The mockery of Gus Walz is almost a caricature of toxic masculinity (Original Post) geniph Aug 2024 OP
Definitely! SheltieLover Aug 2024 #1
Well spoken - astute observation. magicarpet Aug 2024 #2
Almost. It needs much improvement to begin to look like a caricature. Beastly Boy Aug 2024 #3
Yes, it speaks to the generation of men raised to believe not giving a shit is the same thing as strength. It isn't. meadowlander Aug 2024 #4
these are people who call themselves CHRISTIAN Skittles Aug 2024 #5
K&R Solly Mack Aug 2024 #6
NOT a "toxic masculinity" issue - The GOP would have treated Walz' daughter the same way were she neurodivergent. PeaceWave Aug 2024 #7
I don't know that I agree that they'd have treated Hope the same way geniph Aug 2024 #24
the GOP DemonGoddess Aug 2024 #8
K n R with.... JoeOtterbein Aug 2024 #9
Thank you! I'm an overly emotional guy and wish I could control showing it erronis Aug 2024 #10
I hate when my voice cracks and shakes geniph Aug 2024 #17
I'll give that a try, altho my voice is in a pretty deep register already... erronis Aug 2024 #19
That kid jumping up and yelling "That's my dad" Demobrat Aug 2024 #11
KnR. n/t iluvtennis Aug 2024 #12
The women who behave that way BaronChocula Aug 2024 #13
A reminder to all those self-proclaimed Christians who ridicule people for crying, especially men: colorado_ufo Aug 2024 #14
MAGA actually stands for Mean Aggressive Gross A**holes. Lonestarblue Aug 2024 #15
The flip side of real men don't cry is real women don't get angry. Phoenix61 Aug 2024 #16
Coach Walz will be the first to tell you - there is both yelling AND crying in football...and in life. PeaceWave Aug 2024 #18
This message was self-deleted by its author BrightKnight Aug 2024 #20
Seeing how much Gus Walz loves his dad Politicub Aug 2024 #21
Not sure toxic masculinity is a useful term but many young men BrightKnight Aug 2024 #22
Let me clarify: I don't think MASCULINITY is toxic geniph Aug 2024 #25
Most men would find the term offensive. Also, if Gus was my brother BrightKnight Aug 2024 #28
The Ancient Romans were about as toxically masculine as one could get. But it was considered okay for a man to cry. Aristus Aug 2024 #23
A lot of the "ethos" of toxic masculinity... regnaD kciN Aug 2024 #26
"Toxic masculinity?" - There were GOP women calling Gus the same nasty things. PeaceWave Aug 2024 #27
LOL geniph Aug 2024 #29

meadowlander

(4,777 posts)
4. Yes, it speaks to the generation of men raised to believe not giving a shit is the same thing as strength. It isn't.
Thu Aug 22, 2024, 03:41 PM
Aug 2024

Skittles

(160,873 posts)
5. these are people who call themselves CHRISTIAN
Thu Aug 22, 2024, 03:50 PM
Aug 2024

EVERYONE NEEDS TO STOP BUYING INTO THEIR BULLSHIT

PeaceWave

(1,237 posts)
7. NOT a "toxic masculinity" issue - The GOP would have treated Walz' daughter the same way were she neurodivergent.
Thu Aug 22, 2024, 05:02 PM
Aug 2024

The GOP is simply mean spirited. Period.

geniph

(12,599 posts)
24. I don't know that I agree that they'd have treated Hope the same way
Sat Aug 24, 2024, 02:02 PM
Aug 2024

For people with narrow gender-role ideology, it's okay for a young girl to cry, but not a boy. They might have made snide remarks, but not the out-and-out viciousness that was directed at Gus.

erronis

(17,399 posts)
10. Thank you! I'm an overly emotional guy and wish I could control showing it
Thu Aug 22, 2024, 05:31 PM
Aug 2024

but I can't.

My voice cracks when i discuss sensitive and emotional issues.

If I go to a movie or theater production, I'll embarrass myself and any partner (fortunately no longer.)

But I'd rather be me after almost 80 years than the opposite.

geniph

(12,599 posts)
17. I hate when my voice cracks and shakes
Thu Aug 22, 2024, 11:27 PM
Aug 2024

but it's better than being a sociopathic creep who doesn't feel, right?

Actor trick here - drop the pitch of your voice when you feel it's shaking or cracking. If you drop into a lower register, it's easier to contain it.

Demobrat

(9,981 posts)
11. That kid jumping up and yelling "That's my dad"
Thu Aug 22, 2024, 05:37 PM
Aug 2024

showed the world exactly what kind of man Tim Walz is, and the maggots are reacting predictably. Derision and hate are all they have. They think it shows strength. As always, they are wrong.

colorado_ufo

(5,948 posts)
14. A reminder to all those self-proclaimed Christians who ridicule people for crying, especially men:
Thu Aug 22, 2024, 05:42 PM
Aug 2024

The shortest verse in the Bible is two words: "Jesus wept." Gospel of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35.

Lonestarblue

(12,068 posts)
15. MAGA actually stands for Mean Aggressive Gross A**holes.
Thu Aug 22, 2024, 05:48 PM
Aug 2024

Mostly the mean part. They are truly nasty humans. If they have redeeming values, I’ve seen no display of them

Phoenix61

(17,769 posts)
16. The flip side of real men don't cry is real women don't get angry.
Thu Aug 22, 2024, 05:53 PM
Aug 2024

It’s why men end up in fist fights at funerals and women end up in tears when their boss is a jerk to them. Everybody has the right to express the full range of human emotions.

PeaceWave

(1,237 posts)
18. Coach Walz will be the first to tell you - there is both yelling AND crying in football...and in life.
Thu Aug 22, 2024, 11:43 PM
Aug 2024

Response to geniph (Original post)

Politicub

(12,301 posts)
21. Seeing how much Gus Walz loves his dad
Fri Aug 23, 2024, 10:31 AM
Aug 2024

says so much.

Walz is the real deal. He has nurtured his son to live his best life.

I can imagine the pain he must feel that some on the right are degenerate to the point they will ridicule and make fun of an expression of pure love.

The depths MAGA will sink has no floor. The ones that don’t call out these cowards, thieves, snakes and liars are complicit in perpetuating darkness.

BrightKnight

(3,684 posts)
22. Not sure toxic masculinity is a useful term but many young men
Fri Aug 23, 2024, 11:41 AM
Aug 2024

don’t know how to do it in authentic and effective way.

Solid male role models are important socially and politically.

geniph

(12,599 posts)
25. Let me clarify: I don't think MASCULINITY is toxic
Sat Aug 24, 2024, 02:04 PM
Aug 2024

The two terms - masculine and toxic - aren't synonymous. I don't think most men are toxic, at all. I'm married to a man who is secure about his own gender identity and not afraid to show emotion. Toxic masculinity is a very small subset of male behavior, but a disproportionately negative one.

BrightKnight

(3,684 posts)
28. Most men would find the term offensive. Also, if Gus was my brother
Sat Aug 24, 2024, 10:55 PM
Aug 2024

I would be pissed that people keep going on about it. He gets a pass because it was authentic, the weight of the moment couldn’t be more enormous and he has issues. Harping on it is not at all comfortable from his perspective. I wish people would just respect his dignity and let it go.

Aristus

(68,845 posts)
23. The Ancient Romans were about as toxically masculine as one could get. But it was considered okay for a man to cry.
Fri Aug 23, 2024, 01:25 PM
Aug 2024

Usually if he had just experienced a huge failure in his career, an election or a loss in battle for example. But it was considered normal to cry over such a loss.

Are we worse than the ancient Romans?

regnaD kciN

(26,677 posts)
26. A lot of the "ethos" of toxic masculinity...
Sat Aug 24, 2024, 02:51 PM
Aug 2024

…is a carrying forward of early childhood, where schoolyard bullies dominated, and no one was as low on the totem pole as their victims. Think about Trump mocking the disabled reporter and encouraging his supporters to beat up protesters – his campaign slogan might as well have been “Make Bullying Great Again.” And you can easily imagine what a schoolyard bully would say about Gus Welz…in fact, you don’t even need to imagine it, as we’ve seen it all online since Wednesday.

geniph

(12,599 posts)
29. LOL
Sun Aug 25, 2024, 05:47 PM
Aug 2024

You didn't read anything but the title, did you? That was literally the first line.

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