Arms. Embargo. Now.

[onandup]

That is all.

[ColinC]

1. ..

[Fiendish Thingy]

2. Don't hold your breath. Nt

[onandup]

3. The arc of the moral universe is bending toward Palestinians, if you will

It is too slow, but headed there.

[former9thward]

12. Only in your universe.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

19. Only in your fantasy. nt

[onandup]

31. Young people and Democrats are generally more pro-Palestinian

At the convention we had our sitting president and our nominee acknowledge the condition and aspirations of the Palestinian people. We had the first-ever panel on Palestinian human rights.

JAMES ZOGBY: Jesse Jackson made all the difference in the world, because he elevated the issue, and he elevated those of us who raised the issue. And the last two times — the only two times — that the word “Palestine” was mentioned at a Democratic convention was 1984 and 1988 with Jesse Jackson, when — when he spoke in his speech about it, and he invited me first to give him a nominating speech, where I talked about justice for Palestinians. And then, in ’88, we had a platform fight, an actual platform debate from the podium of the convention, on justice for Palestinians.

So, we’ve come a long way. People say to me, “Well, you’re just being optimistic. You’re just saying, you know, 'Cup is half full.'” I say, “No, I remember when we didn’t have a cup.” And we are now with a cup and filling it up. So, when I look at this panel today, it is not the prize. The prize is a change in policy. That’s the prize. …

But what’s historic here is that we are having an officially sanctioned panel to talk about it. Like I said, it’s not the main prize. It’s not the big prize. But it is something I do not want to dismiss for a minute as to how significant this is, about what message the Harris campaign is sending by saying, “We want to talk about this and hear you talk about it.”

And so, I’ve heard some grumbling, you know? I quote Willie Barrow, a friend of mine from the Jackson campaign in the '80s, who said, “We ain't never been here before.” She’d say, “We ain’t never been here.” We’ve never had this forum before. And it is not, like I said, the end. It’s the beginning of a process.

And the difference is — and I told this to Layla and Abbas last night — that when we raised it in '84 and ’88, we did so because Jesse Jackson enabled us. It was a top down. There were people in our Jackson coalition who were, “Reverend, you sure you want to do this? Are you sure you want to talk about this?” He said, “Damn it, I'm doing it. I’ve been doing it from the beginning. We’re not backing away.” This is different. No candidate elevated this movement. This was a bottom up. This was Abbas. This was Layla. This was Waleed. This was activists across the country who said, “We’re not taking it.”

https://www.democracynow.org/2024/8/20/dnc_palestinian_rights_panel

We'll see how Kamala's vision takes shape as she assumes the duties of the presidency. Things are headed in a better direction. Too slowly, but progress is so often incremental.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

32. Uh Huh.

well, you just keep believing that.

You're citing Democracy Now?
Oh, fuck.

Just because they have the word Democracy doesn't mean they believe in actual democracy.

[edisdead]

42. Spot on!

[KPN]

4. Too late. Netanyahu and and the principal warhawks behind him need to go -- that might be

the only chance for a solution and peace at this point. Netanyahu's a desperate crazed old man, like TSF; a danger to the world. He and a few others need to be gone. Just my opinion.

[edhopper]

5. Will never happen

And I cannot support a government run by Hamas.
Can you?

As bad as Netenyahu is, I will never abandon Israel.

[onandup]

6. "Will never happen"

I'm glad so many progressives throughout history refused to say that.

[edhopper]

7. You think

Supporting the destruction of Israel is Progressive?

[onandup]

8. I think not enabling their efforts to start a wider war

and stop sponsoring what is happening in Gaza is progressive.

[stopdiggin]

9. the assertion that Isreal is engaged in 'efforts to start a wider war'

is both erroneous (on its face) - and distasteful.

(but it does provide illustration ... )

[MarineCombatEngineer]

20. Yes it does.

[Sky Jewels]

34. You know what is truly "distasteful"?

Netanyahu’s mass slaughter, maiming and starvation of tens of thousands of innocent Gazans.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

36. You know what's really distasteful?

HAMAs, Hizbollah, Iran, wanting to wipe Israel off the map and kill as many Jews around the world as possible.

[Sky Jewels]

39. Israel is slaughtering exponentially more people than Hamas.

Gazans are just as human as Israelis and they have just as much right to live as Israelis.

[edisdead]

43. so here's my question

If a group attacksone group and does so knowingly that they are putting their own people at risk, what is the other side supposed to do? Do they wait until then attackers kill about as many people as are going to get killed when they retaliate?

Bibi is a fucking madman there is no doubt about that. At all, but Hamas launches attacks from sites that have civilians on site. They still hold hostages (or at least might know where their remains are) and they continue to attack.

Why after this much time has Hamas not given in? Why do they still attack?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

45. Thank you and spot on!!!!

Yes, Bibi is a mad man, but Israel has every right to defend itself, despite what the naysayers say.

[onandup]

49. Joe senses it as well

President Joe Biden, who has publicly reinforced his administration’s “ironclad” commitment to lsrael’s defense, has privately expressed concern that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is trying to drag Washington into a broader conflict, three people familiar with his comments said.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-iran-attack-escalation-war-fears-drones-missiles-rcna147739

[ismnotwasm]

17. Whose efforts?

[ForgedCrank]

40. "start a wider war"

Are you sure you have thought this one through? You believe Israel started any of this?
The Israelis are quite literally fighting for not only their survival, but the survival of their country after being continually and brutally attacked by extremist religious elements who what them erased from the planet. And that's not paraphrasing either.
There was another guy who I remember tried exterminating the Jews once, and we had to wipe out most of his country to stop him as well, and it was the right thing to do.
I'll be blunt: Israel is executing a rather modest response to all of this compared to what I would do if I were making the decisions. I'm willing to buy them all of the weapons they need in order to see this through and protect themselves. The Hamas terrorist propaganda has zero effect on me.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

47. Wow!!

You're being very transparent here.

[TheKentuckian]

10. No thanks.

[Nanjeanne]

11. Tel Aviv Saturday

I posted this un a different thread but it works here as well

Link to tweet

?s=61&t=_R0eaN5XDTx3hnl2jyXBTA]

I haven’t posted much on this topic lately because sadly much of what I read here breaks my heart. But I spent two weeks in Israel in May with my family and most nights we were with other activists on the streets protesting.

Since I’ve been back, the protests are continuing and I have friends and family out there still demanding Israel get the deal done. The movement is strong but here in the states it certainly doesn’t get much play. So much we read and hear is so unbalanced. But that’s a whole other story I can’t write about as I don’t have the energy anymore for the wrong headed comments that are bound to be hurled my way.

I leave you with these two articles. This is the man the US is giving unconditional support to by supplying bombs for him to continue his maniacal destruction.

Even When Talking With Released Hostages, the Netanyahus Only Focus on Their Own Pain
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-08-25/ty-article/.premium/even-when-talking-to-ex-hostages-the-netanyahus-focus-on-their-own-pain/00000191-890a-d847-abff-ebabd4b90000] Haaretz subscriber link

https://archive.is/1ZLBS] free link

Jewish Terror Has Exploded, and Nothing Is Standing in Its Way. It May Bring Israel Down

https://archive.is/ICMym] free link

[former9thward]

13. Maybe you should tell Hamas to get the deal done.

They are the ones boycotting the negotiations.

[Nanjeanne]

15. Hamas agreed to the Biden deal on May 31. Netanyahu changed the deal and put new conditions in it.

I did dial 1800HAMAS but no one answered so instead I’ll stand with the scores of Israelis including the hostage families telling Netanyahu to make the deal.

[Beastly Boy]

16. Actually, this is false.

A cursory look at the reports of the Hamas "agreement" shows that they neither agreed to the proposal nor viewed favorably on it as communicated by Biden.

Biden's proposal, as reported:

The proposal, unveiled by Biden in remarks delivered Friday at the White House, was composed of three phases. The first phase would entail a six-week ceasefire, along with an Israeli withdrawal from populated areas of Gaza, the exchange of surviving Hamas-held hostage for hundreds of Palestinians held prisoner, the return of Palestinian civilians to the war-torn territory and the entrance of up to 600 aid trucks.

Hamas' response, as reported:

"Hamas confirms its readiness to deal positively and in a constructive manner with any proposal that is based on the permanent ceasefire and the full withdrawal [of Israeli forces] from the Gaza Strip, the reconstruction [of Gaza], and the return of the displaced to their places," the group said, "along with the fulfillment of a genuine prisoner swap deal if the occupation clearly announces commitment to such deal."

https://www.newsweek.com/hamas-welcomes-joe-biden-ceasefire-deal-gaza-1907044

At least two fundamentals differ between Biden's proposal and what Hamas "positively views" (but not accepts):

Biden's proposal calls for a temporary cease fire and an Israeli withdrawal from populated areas of Gaza in the first phase, and Hamas views favorably "any proposal", not specifically the latest Biden proposal, which is based on permanent cease fire and full withdrawal [of Israeli forces] from the Gaza Strip, neither of the two having been stated in the Biden proposal.

Not only did Hamas not agree to Biden's proposal, it implicitly conditioned its participation on the demands not included in Biden's proposal.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

21. Well, you know,

facts don't matter to some.

[Cha]

24. No kidding!

[Cha]

23. Thought So. Thanks for Clearing that UP

for the Poster and the Thread.

Fucking Hamas.

[stopdiggin]

29. Hamas NEVER accepted any deal - ergo, there WAS no deal

Last edited Sun Aug 25, 2024, 11:25 PM - Edit history (1)

A deal that people do not agree to .... Is NOT a f*cking deal!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

[Demsrule86]

26. You should delete this post because it isn't true as another poster has clearly demonstrated.

Truth matters

[MarineCombatEngineer]

35. To some here, truth doesn't mean jack shit. nt

[ForgedCrank]

41. Hamas will

agree to a cease fire only for the purposes of fortifying their fighting units, and getting re-supplied with weapons and rockets. i'm not sure how many times they have to do the same freekin thing before people get a grasp on reality. Hamas has no intentions of stopping. Ever. They have openly told us as much.
I never side with violent aggressors.

[stopdiggin]

44. Hamas is still PROMISING future attacks

in the mold of Oct 7, and whatever other means at their disposal - with the restated goal of the elimination of Israel.

And apparently we're suppose to just swallow this, and turn aside (yet again) ... Because, you know - "death and destruction .. " "Thousands of Israelis want .. "

[soandso]

48. I saw your post

in the thread that I posted but just now read those articles. Thanks for the Archive versions. My God, what an asshole Netanyahu is. Not that I didn't know it already but he didn't even try to hide his contempt for those he was speaking to. And, that wife of his! Holy shit. Absolutely disgusting.

The second article on the settlers is beyond alarming. I didn't know that they'd become so powerful and I do know they're monsters. It sounds like they could almost cause a civil war in Israel if they aren't stopped.

The situation with the hostages is so terrible. Hamas won't budge and Netanyahu won't budge and that does not bode well for those still alive. I keep thinking about that BABY that they're holding.

[malaise]

14. Agree

Rec

[MarineCombatEngineer]

18. Not going to happen.

That is all.

[DavidDvorkin]

22. Fuck no.

[Beastly Boy]

25. Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.

[Clouds Passing]

27. The arms industry won't stand for that

[kimbutgar]

28. Bibi need to step down immediately and get a new sane later then we can consider more funding

Bibi is cohoots with the convicted felon and he needs to be punished and destroyed.

[LexVegas]

30. ...

[tritsofme]

33. Fuck Hamas. Fuck Hezbollah. Fuck their apologists.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

46. Of which there are plenty. nt

[EX500rider]

37. YES! Russia, Iran, Venezuela, North Korea?

But I think we already have a arms embargo on them

[Danmel]

38. Btw, release of the hostages is NOT a "prisoner swap"

Fuck Hamas. They're holding infants, toddlers and senior citizens who they KIDNAPPED.