Pop group ABBA ask Donald Trump to stop using their songs, but Trump team says they have the OK

[liberal N proud]

NEW YORK (AP) — Swedish supergroup ABBA has asked Donald Trump to stop using their music at campaign rallies, but the Republican presidential nominee’s campaign says it has permission.

“ABBA has recently discovered the unauthorized use of their music and videos at a Trump event through videos that appeared online,” said a statement to The Associated Press from the band, whose hits include “Waterloo,” “The Winner Takes It All” and “Money, Money, Money.”

“As a result, ABBA and its representative has promptly requested the removal and deletion of such content. No request has been received; therefore, no permission or license has been granted.”

https://apnews.com/article/abba-trump-campaign-1965f788ab05e835b7facc1cddae8ed2

[Lonestarblue]

1. Trump always takes what he wants and consequences be dammed because he rarely faces any.

[DeepWinter]

27. Direct permission is not needed

You can usually (almost always) bypass the band or artist directly and pay an organization that has the "Sync license" and/or the "master license" for the song itself. The sync license can be from anyone who paid the artist for usually a limited time period where they can rent it out themselves, or the master license from the (typically) record label. The bigger the band, the more songs they have, the more necessary it is to hire a third party to control the use/control/permission of the songs. It can be hundreds of inquiries a day. The courts are chock full of lawsuits where the bands are not happy who the business or record label allowed to use the song. In the end, the bands that do this (which is nearly all) signed a contract for financial gain allowing a 3rd party to more or less rent out their songs without their approval or knowledge to any specific group or person. It's a business like any other business.

The music industry is a horrible horrible industry where artists frequently sign away absolute control over their work for the financial gain. They often lose track of even who has the authority to give permission to use their work. ABBA may hate Trump using their song, but they will get their fee for him using it. (If the above situation applies. It likely does.)

[mucifer]

2. I'd love to see one big lawsuit from all the bands he is stealing from. They could make their own ad about it.

[NJCher]

6. Good idea

People would be interested in something like this.

[mucifer]

8. My little fantasy is they write an anti trump song and all sing it together and it goes viral on youtube.

You know, like " We are the world".

A girl can dream.

[NJCher]

17. That and/or

A documentary about all the times trump has appropriated the music of groups that want no association whatsoever with him.

Ironic, isn’t it, that they played “Money, money” and there’s none for the musicians, only for trump.

[enid602]

3. Archie's

Don’t worry, Donny. Maybe the Archies will let you borrow ‘Sugar Sugar.’

[John1956PA]

11. As an aside, I think CBS held the right to the Archies songs.

I think that CBS hired the Archies singers and signed them to a contract by which the network held the copyright to the songs and to the singers' recordings. I was always fascinated by that arrangement, especially because "Sugar, Sugar" was the No. 1 song of 1969.

[Think. Again.]

4. He also said he had the OK to film in Arlington...

...and use that film in campaign ads.

[Hugin]

7. Trump asked himself while sitting on the commode...

Then, he gave himself a tiny inadequate thumbs-up.

MAGAhick Johnson concurred.

[Think. Again.]

9. I forgot he can grant other people's permission (and do government paperwork) in his mind.

[Ms. Toad]

14. Did you read the article?

It says what those of us familiar with licensing music have been saying since these complaints started coming out: his campaign has licenses through BMI and ASCAP.

[Hugin]

15. I was talking about the ANC incident...

If you’d read my post.

Also, without seeing the actual agreements between any specific performers and their licensing agents. We can’t comment.

Keep in mind, Trump’s people lie as they breathe. They know few will check to see what those agreements actually are. They live by the motto, “Do first and then double down later.” So, I refuse to give them the benefit of a doubt.

[Ms. Toad]

20. It has nothing to do with giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Their music is available through BMI. Feel free to check. Music available through ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC can be used by anyone who has a performance license from the entity authorized by the copyright holders (or is performing in a venue which has a license). That's just how it works.

The entire setup is designed so that people who need music for events from ball games to weddings to political conventions can have access to that music without negotiating, for each song used, with licensing agents for each of the copyright holders (performer, composer, lyricist, arranger, etc.) associated with each song they want to use. If the music is in the library and you have a BMI/ASCAP/SESAC license, you get to use it. You don't have to ask for additional permission.

[Hugin]

25. BMI doesn't seem to agree...

“ Q: What is the BMI Political Entities license?

The BMI Political Entities license authorizes the public performance of over 22.4 million musical works in BMI’s repertoire at events and functions hosted by political campaigns and organizations. This blanket license ensures that political entities are in compliance with copyright law wherever events may occur throughout the duration of the campaign. The license includes a provision that permits BMI to exclude a musical work(s) from the license should we receive an objection from a songwriter or publisher regarding its use by the licensee. If that occurs, BMI will notify the licensee that the particular musical work has been removed from license and is no longer authorized by BMI to perform the musical work.”

From: https://www.bmi.com/licensing/entry/political

It would appear the ABBA representative quoted in the article is exercising their option. I am sure there are similar provisions for the other international licensing organizations. I will not waste any more time looking them up. I just happened to have this one handy.

No there’s no SCrOTUS immunity for god-kings to do as they please.

[Ms. Toad]

28. Making a public statement

Isn't exercising that option. There is a process, which doesn't include threatening to sue, making a statement to the press claiming Trump didn't ask for consent, etc.

In one of early posts today in this issue, I mentioned exceptions - political use exception is one of those. But none of the groups I've seen complain claim to have excluded political use, or claim to have asked BMI/ASCAP/SESAC to remove their works from Trump's license - but that he continues to use it after they withdraw consent. They simply claim, after hearing their work used, that Trump didn't obtain their permission or a license.

[onenote]

29. Several reasons why ABBA probably is on shaky legal ground.

First, ABBA, or its members, probably don't own the copyright to the songs. The copyright in a musical composition typically is transferred early on to a publishing company. So assuming that the members, or some of the members, of ABBA are the composers of the songs being used, they may not be the "licensee" with the authority to object to the use of the songs. Second, even if they do have the right to object, if they didn't notify the performing rights society that they object to the use of the songs before they were used, the objection would stop future use, but not render the previous use infringing. Finally, the actual sound recordings made by ABBA of the songs in questions are copyrighted separately from underlying musical compositions and often held by a different entity. And, in any event, there is no "public performance" right in a sound recording.

[Hugin]

31. It says what it says...

That’s all I know about it.

If ABBA songs are no longer featured at Trump shit shows or if litigation is filed. We’ll have our answers.

[onenote]

32. If they're not featured, then it will be because the blanket license opt out has been exercised going forward.

There is a reason why artists often complain about the use of their songs and threaten litigation, but very rarely carry out that threat.

[Hugin]

33. BMI makes it clear legal action is a last resort...

Elsewhere, in their FAQs. I suppose a performer could go it alone if they want a bite of the rotten orange, who never pays settlements.

Another big question is if Trump Inc. has a regular business use license or a specific political license. The two are very different. I am willing to extend my speculation to it’s a business use only. Unless, what they’re claiming in the article is part of the RNC elephant corpse the hyenas are tearing apart.

I have suspected that performers have been pulling their works from use by Trump for some time. Noticing the increasingly weird fare that hodgepodges their playlists.

[NJCher]

5. It's rare to find

A musical group who wants to be associated with trump.

[Think. Again.]

10. There was that one bible salesmen though.

[multigraincracker]

12. Remember the We Are The World concert?

These groups should get together and do what they do best and do a tRumpe is Nuts Concert. Use lots of humor and have millions laugh at him. Biggest crowd ever. He is use to getting sued, but can’t stand being laughed at. Might push him off the deep end.

[Ms. Toad]

13. This is how it works, folks.

(for the umpteenth time)

A spokesman for the Trump campaign said it had obtained a license. “The campaign had a license to play ABBA music through our agreement with BMI and ASCAP,” the spokesperson told the AP.

Unless ABBA opted out of certain uses, in advance, Trump doesn't have to ask the group for permission.

[NJCher]

16. Urmmm

I suggest to you that abba knows that. There’s some other factors at work here which were explained to you quite adequately upthread.

[Ms. Toad]

21. Not really.

Licensing music from ASCAP/BMI/SESAC is part of what paid my bills before I retired. I have direct knowledge of how it works.

[NJCher]

22. I do, too

I negotiated contracts directly for artist appearances.

[Ms. Toad]

23. Artist appearances is different

From using pre-recorded music that is available by license through ASCAP/BMI/SESAC. You have a lot more flexibility to individualize the terms, and to reject performing at specific events when you are negotiating a performance contract.

Licensing through BMI/ASCAP/SESAC is much more standardized, since it is designed for mass use (both by individuals and venues who want to use music, any for disbursing the royalties to the many copyright holders involved in each piece)

[NJCher]

24. yes, I'm well aware of that

and my experience encompasses this, too, for major corporations. I'd elaborate but I don't want to sound like a name dropper.

[Ms. Toad]

26. Ditto, for major corporations.

So I'm surprised you are contributing to the misinformation about how standard venue/individual licensing works. While there are different categories of licensing (venue, performer, etc.) none of them require negotiating directly with the copyright holders as long as the work has been licensed through BMI/ASCAP/SESAC. The entire point of that scheme (from copyright holders and user standpoint) is to standardize the process.

[onenote]

30. Ms. Toad is absolutely correct. And if we're going to point to experience.

I have been representing companies with respect to copyright legislation for more than 40 years. Both on the Hill and in private practice I have helped draft, and advised clients regarding multiple pieces of copyright legislation, including the Digital Performance Right in Sound Recordings Act of 1995.

[Generic Brad]

18. Trump's team is lying about having permission

That is all they do is lie.

[bluestarone]

19. 100% TRUE!

There lips move, they are lying!!

[anamnua]

34. This should have been played to him over and over again in November 2020