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highplainsdem

(62,134 posts)
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 06:04 PM Sep 2024

The "quote from Jane Goodall" in the trending "Ladies & Gentlemen, Jane Goodall !!!" thread ISN'T from Jane Goodall

The thread is here: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219409589

I posted a correction in reply 8 there, but I don't know if that mistaken OP will be corrected.

The quote is from Karen Karbo, and the source is an interview done for National Geographic.

What I posted there:

___

That quote ISN'T from Jane Goodall, though it's often attributed to her by mistake. It's from Karen Karbo, who
was quoted in a National Geographic article that was mostly an Interview with Karbo after she wrote In Praise of Difficult Women, which was about Goodall, Amelia Earhart and 26 other women.

From that 2018 article:

Meet the ‘Difficult’ Women Who Wrote Their Own Rules
These 29 women weren’t willing to be anything but fully themselves, from Jane Goodall to Frida Kahlo to Billie Jean King.

By Simon Worrall
May 12, 2018


“If you obey all the rules, you miss all the fun,” Katharine Hepburn once remarked. So, in honor of Mother’s Day, we have asked Karen Karbo, author of In Praise of Difficult Women, to talk about some of the iconic women that have inspired her, from aviator Amelia Earhart to newscaster Rachel Maddow and National Geographic Explorer Jane Goodall. What links them all is a determination to trust themselves and the courage to break the rules.

Speaking from her home in Portland, Oregon, Karbo explains why Jane Goodall was one of her childhood heroes; why she finds the demands of modern American womanhood such a challenge; and why women are often labelled “difficult” just for being themselves.

Being difficult is usually a negative character trait. But you celebrate it as a virtue. Unpack the paradox for us and explain how it links the diverse women you profile.

There are invisible quotes around “difficult” that don’t appear in the title. Women who are strong, passionate and determined don’t walk around saying, “Oh, look, I’m difficult.” They just believe they’re living their lives. It’s a word slapped on them by other people. If you don’t care too much what people think, you risk being called a difficult woman because you’re not staying in your lane or doing what is expected of you. For the most part, any time a woman doesn’t do that she can be called difficult. When a woman inconveniences somebody she can be called difficult. A woman who believes her own needs, goals, and desires are at least as important as everyone around her risks being called difficult. One of the first reviewers said, “That’s a pretty low bar.” I said, “Thank you for making my point for me.” Because it actually doesn’t take much to be considered a difficult woman. That’s why there are so many of us. [laughs]

-snip-



A lot of people have wrongly attributed to that to Goodall, probably because they remember the photo of her with the article.

But as soon as I checked the quote, I noticed that none of the people attributing it to her mentioned a source for it.

So I did a bit more checking and found the quote itself, and the actual source.

Please correct your OP.
80 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The "quote from Jane Goodall" in the trending "Ladies & Gentlemen, Jane Goodall !!!" thread ISN'T from Jane Goodall (Original Post) highplainsdem Sep 2024 OP
TY for checking these. It should moonscape Sep 2024 #1
I agree. The failure to correct is really disappointing - and surprising on this board. Don't usually see highplainsdem Sep 2024 #19
Thanks Hekate Sep 2024 #2
You're welcome! highplainsdem Sep 2024 #20
That's the second false post from that person in the last 2 days. nt Wednesdays Sep 2024 #3
When someone's entire "output" Pinback Sep 2024 #5
Never blame evil when incompetence is the real culprit WhiteTara Sep 2024 #45
Or -- never blame incompetence when evil is the real culprit. nt Wednesdays Sep 2024 #49
My thoughts as well JoseBalow Sep 2024 #50
Well, this particular one has been all over th internet for a while. RandomNumbers Sep 2024 #80
Wow.. another one.. Mahalo for Actually Doing the Research, hpd! Cha Sep 2024 #4
You're welcome! Today they also wanted to know where they could buy a Deadheads for Kamala print highplainsdem Sep 2024 #7
So Busy.. apparently TOO BUSY! Cha Sep 2024 #30
Anything that person posts is suspect. n/t demmiblue Sep 2024 #6
They occasionally post something quite interesting, from a good source. But they don't always check highplainsdem Sep 2024 #22
That person might not have seen the correctives posted to him/her/them - their latest activity is 432 PM CT progree Sep 2024 #8
I sent them email. As I did yesterday, and they ignored it despite being online and posting other OPs. highplainsdem Sep 2024 #10
They're back on DU, posted a reply in another thread at 5:43 CT. And now another OP. No reply to highplainsdem Sep 2024 #14
Some people just need the attention and Rec's I guess. That post is up to 96 recs now progree Sep 2024 #29
This has been happening with this member since they joined. ms liberty Sep 2024 #18
Reminds me of some who posted here years ago, and was PPRed back in around 2016. GoCubsGo Sep 2024 #26
I've been getting some deja vu vibes about this one, so you may have something there. ms liberty Sep 2024 #36
While I seldom reply to them, I want to keep an eye out Hekate Sep 2024 #37
This, definitely. ms liberty Sep 2024 #41
Unfortunately the "Ignore" function doesn't keep posts off the front page JoseBalow Sep 2024 #51
Those who fail to correct their mistakes lose credibility. Honest mistakes become lies when they Mousetoescamper Sep 2024 #9
You're welcome! It just saves so much time (and credibility) to check first. highplainsdem Sep 2024 #12
"Don't trust everything you read on the internet" - Abraham Lincoln Jose Garcia Sep 2024 #11
LOL! highplainsdem Sep 2024 #13
LOL, me too!! ailsagirl Sep 2024 #76
A lie travels around the world before the truth can get its pants on. Fiendish Thingy Sep 2024 #15
Me too. Sometimes half my "Latest" page is blank, with all the missing OPs. Scrivener7 Sep 2024 #25
Blank? Really? Fiendish Thingy Sep 2024 #39
Yes. Probably a difference in formats. It happens on my PC. There are many pages, Scrivener7 Sep 2024 #56
Post removed Post removed Sep 2024 #16
Huh. What sort of person would be motivated to alert on a correction? highplainsdem Sep 2024 #17
Probably in the basis of "interfering with forum moderation." BUT, as noted, there have been calls for help... Hekate Sep 2024 #38
Another possibility is the "negatively call-out" part of "No personal attacks or flaming" rule progree Sep 2024 #42
We may have to address the issue of sheer volume of posts at some point... Hekate Sep 2024 #47
I was correcting misinformation in a post that was getting a lot of recs and replies from people who highplainsdem Sep 2024 #55
Yes Hekate Sep 2024 #58
Creating an OP to point to an errant post in another thread might be considered a callout by some people progree Sep 2024 #72
Post removed Post removed Sep 2024 #74
I don't like that outcome either. I don't know how the appeal will go - the forum moderation interference progree Sep 2024 #75
I don't see how it's interfering with forum moderation if I point put misinformation in a post. I've been trying highplainsdem Sep 2024 #53
I'm on your side and completely agree with you. The query was from someone who seemed... Hekate Sep 2024 #59
Thanks! Btw, Rubyshoo is gone. See Scrivener7's post 57 here. highplainsdem Sep 2024 #65
TY for the heads-up Hekate Sep 2024 #69
Thanks! Btw, Rubyshoo is gone. See Scrivener7's post 57 here. highplainsdem Sep 2024 #66
And thanks again for your help x100 moonscape Sep 2024 #71
Oh, that's an interesting moonscape Sep 2024 #70
Which begs the question: how are we supposed to deal with this issue? Hekate Sep 2024 #24
Maybe there needs to be another option when you alert..something like "post is untrue" likesmountains 52 Sep 2024 #43
How can you tell when a post/OP has been alerted? chia Sep 2024 #28
I got called for jury duty on it. likesmountains 52 Sep 2024 #31
Oh, thank you, I thought maybe it was flagged in some way visually. chia Sep 2024 #34
If one serves on the jury. n/t demmiblue Sep 2024 #32
Thank you! chia Sep 2024 #35
Here's a link to the Community Help thread from 7/30 about adding an untrue information category ms liberty Sep 2024 #21
Thank you for doing that. Here is the post I just made... Hekate Sep 2024 #27
Well said, and echoes my experience too. Thanks! ms liberty Sep 2024 #44
Thanks for that link! I didn't see a recent post from you kicking it, so I'm guessing there was a glitch or you highplainsdem Sep 2024 #40
Thank you for letting me know my post didn't lol! ms liberty Sep 2024 #46
A font of misinformation and non-information. Scrivener7 Sep 2024 #23
Thank you for the correction. I rely so much on DU to not only supply facts, but to correct misinformation. chia Sep 2024 #33
Thank you! And almost all posts have a little blue box with a twitter link. nt cliffside Sep 2024 #48
Thank you for your service! JoseBalow Sep 2024 #52
Well, as Jane Goodall said, "In war, the truth is so precious it much be protected by a bodyguard of lies" Bucky Sep 2024 #54
Rubyshoo has left the building. Scrivener7 Sep 2024 #57
Thanks for the info. Admit moonscape Sep 2024 #60
I'm with you. As you previously pointed out, the flood of drivel was burying Scrivener7 Sep 2024 #62
Thanks and finally! nt cliffside Sep 2024 #61
I feel a sense of relief. Maybe the Admin Gods heard our prayers. Hekate Sep 2024 #68
That's the only possibility. MIRT's jurisdiction is for people with post counts less than 100, and forum hosts progree Sep 2024 #73
As I said before I put it them on ignore... demmiblue Sep 2024 #77
I thought I detected a certain freshness in the air this morning. Pinback Sep 2024 #78
It is becoming apparent that we need a "factually false post" category of Alert. LudwigPastorius Sep 2024 #63
A big source of it has been PPR'd. Scrivener7 Sep 2024 #64
Awesome LudwigPastorius Sep 2024 #67
Thank you for this thread LetMyPeopleVote Sep 2024 #79

moonscape

(5,722 posts)
1. TY for checking these. It should
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 06:12 PM
Sep 2024

be the job of OP. Failing that, corrections/deletions should happen asap but don’t seem to.

highplainsdem

(62,134 posts)
19. I agree. The failure to correct is really disappointing - and surprising on this board. Don't usually see
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 07:26 PM
Sep 2024

DUers leave misinformation in posts.

Pinback

(13,600 posts)
5. When someone's entire "output"
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 06:18 PM
Sep 2024

consists of low-effort Xitter reposts, free of any attempt at verification, you have to wonder what the real agenda is.

WhiteTara

(31,260 posts)
45. Never blame evil when incompetence is the real culprit
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 08:12 PM
Sep 2024

that poster is very lazy and likes to post sensational headlines of their own, rather than using the usual DU protocol of using the actual headline. I had to block because I found it so annoying.

JoseBalow

(9,486 posts)
50. My thoughts as well
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 08:25 PM
Sep 2024

The amount of time and effort put in to their flood of twitter reposts makes me wonder what this is really all about. I have asked multiple times what they did before coming here, but they have never replied.

RandomNumbers

(19,156 posts)
80. Well, this particular one has been all over th internet for a while.
Sat Sep 7, 2024, 09:28 AM
Sep 2024

It is widely attributed to Dr. Jane Goodall.

Much as many quotes attributed to Gandhi were not really said by him.

I have other issues with the lazy Xitter postings that appear here. It is more than that one poster. (I have blocked some, not yet that one because sometimes theirs are at least interesting.)

Edit to add: I see now the poster of that one was banned, so no need for me to block them now. Also, I do appreciate the fact-checkers on this site.

Cha

(319,067 posts)
4. Wow.. another one.. Mahalo for Actually Doing the Research, hpd!
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 06:16 PM
Sep 2024

And, Shining the Light on Fake Accounts & Misattributed Quotes!

highplainsdem

(62,134 posts)
7. You're welcome! Today they also wanted to know where they could buy a Deadheads for Kamala print
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 06:33 PM
Sep 2024

they saw on Twitter, and it turned out to be from an Etsy t-shirt vendor, and was not only probably an AI-generated image, but it also violated Grateful Dead copyrights and trademarks.

There's a lot of very iffy stuff out there.

highplainsdem

(62,134 posts)
22. They occasionally post something quite interesting, from a good source. But they don't always check
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 07:31 PM
Sep 2024

as carefully as they should - especially when they might mislead DUers into posting replies to misinformation or copying it elsewhere.

progree

(12,972 posts)
8. That person might not have seen the correctives posted to him/her/them - their latest activity is 432 PM CT
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 06:38 PM
Sep 2024

Last edited Sun Sep 1, 2024, 07:57 PM - Edit history (1)

while the first corrective in that thread posted to them was 453 PM CT.

Thank you for checking it out and informing them and us.

Edited to add for convenience of reference:

The thread in question Ladies & Gentlemen, Jane Goodall !!!
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219409589

Edited: I removed the person's name and the person's profile link from this post after reading that the OP was alerted on.

highplainsdem

(62,134 posts)
10. I sent them email. As I did yesterday, and they ignored it despite being online and posting other OPs.
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 06:57 PM
Sep 2024

I've tried to check quotes found online ever since discovering how many were either invented or wrongly attributed. Sometimes it's incredibly disappointing to find out the quote's completely fake or at least credited to the wrong person.

Bad as it is now, though, this is going to seem like the golden age of internet reliability as AI adds more misinformation, whether as misinformation intended by the AI user or just hallucinations from the AI that aren't caught before something gets put online.

highplainsdem

(62,134 posts)
14. They're back on DU, posted a reply in another thread at 5:43 CT. And now another OP. No reply to
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 07:07 PM
Sep 2024

the email or pointing out on the board that the OP about Goodall is wrong.

progree

(12,972 posts)
29. Some people just need the attention and Rec's I guess. That post is up to 96 recs now
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 07:39 PM
Sep 2024

For convenience of reference, Ladies & Gentlemen, Jane Goodall !!!
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219409589

Thanks very much for all you do on keeping us informed on what's posted around here that's not true.

ms liberty

(11,237 posts)
18. This has been happening with this member since they joined.
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 07:19 PM
Sep 2024

It's not new behavior. It's a repeat offense.

GoCubsGo

(34,909 posts)
26. Reminds me of some who posted here years ago, and was PPRed back in around 2016.
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 07:33 PM
Sep 2024

Same M.O. to a "T." The "Ignore" function is your friend.

ms liberty

(11,237 posts)
36. I've been getting some deja vu vibes about this one, so you may have something there.
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 07:48 PM
Sep 2024

I've become quite the suspicious and skeptical lady in my old age!

JoseBalow

(9,486 posts)
51. Unfortunately the "Ignore" function doesn't keep posts off the front page
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 08:30 PM
Sep 2024

where their posts are always present.

Mousetoescamper

(6,819 posts)
9. Those who fail to correct their mistakes lose credibility. Honest mistakes become lies when they
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 06:57 PM
Sep 2024

are willfully left to stand uncorrected.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

Fiendish Thingy

(23,219 posts)
15. A lie travels around the world before the truth can get its pants on.
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 07:09 PM
Sep 2024

I’ve had that OP on ignore for awhile now because of their incessant spreading of misinformation and clickbait.

Fiendish Thingy

(23,219 posts)
39. Blank? Really?
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 07:58 PM
Sep 2024

My latest page is never blank, but it does have a greater variety of interesting posts than before I put the clickbaiters on ignore.

Scrivener7

(59,516 posts)
56. Yes. Probably a difference in formats. It happens on my PC. There are many pages,
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 10:04 PM
Sep 2024

but blanks at the bottom of each. It doesn't happen on my phone.

Response to highplainsdem (Original post)

highplainsdem

(62,134 posts)
17. Huh. What sort of person would be motivated to alert on a correction?
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 07:17 PM
Sep 2024

Thanks for letting us know what's going on.

Hekate

(100,133 posts)
38. Probably in the basis of "interfering with forum moderation." BUT, as noted, there have been calls for help...
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 07:54 PM
Sep 2024

…already, and no result. If this issue had been dealt with by the hosts or admins 6 weeks ago, we wouldn’t be having this conversation in the open now.

Hekate

(100,133 posts)
47. We may have to address the issue of sheer volume of posts at some point...
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 08:18 PM
Sep 2024

Back at the beginning there were a couple of posters who said things like: How many of you are there? and When do you ever sleep?

But they managed to slip past MIRT, and now have nearly 2 thousand posts since signing up on July 17, 2024. We’ve learned to deal with troll-farms in past years — but we’re not equipped to deal with AI-generative programs.


highplainsdem

(62,134 posts)
55. I was correcting misinformation in a post that was getting a lot of recs and replies from people who
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 09:03 PM
Sep 2024

might copy the misinformation elsewhere and then have to spend time correcting their own posts elsewhere after being misled here.

progree

(12,972 posts)
72. Creating an OP to point to an errant post in another thread might be considered a callout by some people
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 11:13 PM
Sep 2024

even if it is an entirely valid comment about an errant post. (DU is a big tent and all that and there are all kinds and it only takes one person to alert).

You've probably noticed that a post (#16) merely saying this thread has been alerted on has been removed from this thread-- that took the work of 5 or more people (one alerter plus 4 or more out of 7 jurors). So one never knows.

Response to progree (Reply #72)

progree

(12,972 posts)
75. I don't like that outcome either. I don't know how the appeal will go - the forum moderation interference
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 11:54 PM
Sep 2024

rule is very, well, explicit.

highplainsdem

(62,134 posts)
53. I don't see how it's interfering with forum moderation if I point put misinformation in a post. I've been trying
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 08:58 PM
Sep 2024

to convince that DUer to check more carefully before posting something.

Hekate

(100,133 posts)
59. I'm on your side and completely agree with you. The query was from someone who seemed...
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 10:38 PM
Sep 2024

…to want to now how the alert could have been justified in the first place. I am very glad the alerter (whoever it might have been) was unsuccessful.

The more I think about it, the more I think this is a conversation we need to have. The poster in question is flooding the zone in a manner suggestive of an artificial entity of some kind learning what pushes our buttons.

moonscape

(5,722 posts)
70. Oh, that's an interesting
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 11:00 PM
Sep 2024

take that never occurred to me. My brain isn‘t wired for this new AI reality.

Hekate

(100,133 posts)
24. Which begs the question: how are we supposed to deal with this issue?
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 07:33 PM
Sep 2024

I am mindful that over-alerting can get me in trouble, so I limit myself. Also I often find that there’s not something in the Alert lists that exactly applies. Once I was concerned enough about a repeat offender that I wrote to a forum host, to no avail ( ie no answer )



ms liberty

(11,237 posts)
21. Here's a link to the Community Help thread from 7/30 about adding an untrue information category
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 07:29 PM
Sep 2024

To the Alert system. This was in response to this same issue from the same member - who had barely been here two weeks then.
I kicked it again yesterday or today, I forget which day, lol. We still have an issue and there is no category that fits many of these offenses properly at present.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/125626466

Hekate

(100,133 posts)
27. Thank you for doing that. Here is the post I just made...
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 07:34 PM
Sep 2024
Still needs to be addressed, for all the reasons stated. I am quite distressed at the number of times ...
… this year that I have swallowed mis/disinformation. At best I go back and remove my Rec. At worst, I have to go back to a person IRL and retract something I told them was true.
We all have a stake in maintaining DU’s reputation for purveying factual information. Help us do that, please.

highplainsdem

(62,134 posts)
40. Thanks for that link! I didn't see a recent post from you kicking it, so I'm guessing there was a glitch or you
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 08:02 PM
Sep 2024

do the same thing I do and sometimes forget to finish posting something after previewing it (especially when I have multiple tabs open).

I'll check the thread out!

I posted some possible remedies in one of my replies in the thread about the fake Usha Vance tweet that was posted:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219405016#post31

It might be a good idea to have a second alert system here for OPs with what looks like misinformation. Not an alert for a jury, but an alert to the forum hosts and admins to allow a temporary hide of that thread - only temporary - until the information can be verified and the OP corrected if necessary.

And the need for such temporary hides would be eliminated if people would quote a reliable source, and not just anyone on Twitter. And also use Google or another search engine (regular search, not an idiotic AI summary) to check it. If those sources are in the OP, it would take probably less than a minute to check them.

This sort of temporary hide shouldn't count toward an FFR. And hopefully DUers making these mistakes wouldn't keep posting misinformation, or not bother correcting it.

It might be a good idea, too, to remove recs and replies from threads riling DUers up with misinformation. And maybe just lock the thread after it's been corrected. If there's anything in an OP of misinformation worth posting, it can always be posted as a new OP. Otherwise people seeing it later may post reactions to replies that shouldn't have been posted and wouldn't have been if those DUers hadn't been misled by the OP.


I mentioned this in another reply:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219405016#post36

I haven't put them on ignore. I never put anyone on ignore (with the exception of the bots I block on Twitter). My first experience online, in the 1980s, was two years moderating a political forum, and I have more than a dozen years' experience as an admin and moderator elsewhere. (I'm not counting being a forum host here, which has limited powers.) I needed to be able to see what was going on. Usually it's possible to reason with people who aren't aware that they're creating problems. But there were times when it was useful, when newcomers were naive or people kept making the same mistakes over and over, to set the board so that member's posts wouldn't appear at all until reviewed by a mod or admin, to avoid having to clean up a worse mess afterward. Getting lots of DUers riled up and posting angry replies about something that simply isn't true is a mess that hurts more than the person posting the OP - who possibly may not care.

If they do care at all, I hope they'll not only correct or delete that post, but also post an apology. Show at least that much concern for having misled people. And be much more careful in the future.


DU reminds me in some ways of the vBulletin/phpBB type boards as I was used to, but it's custom and I have no idea if thers are any settings that would keep a certain DUer's posts from appearing until a host or admin has time to review them. If they post misinformation over and over, it would be desirable. But if they post a lot every day and their posts need to be reviewed first, it becomes a real chore. If they've been told they're making mistakes but don't try to avoid them, don't learn...

ms liberty

(11,237 posts)
46. Thank you for letting me know my post didn't lol!
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 08:18 PM
Sep 2024

I'm going over now to kick it.

I remember your posts you've highlighted here and I agree with you in the main. We need to get a grip on this issue.

chia

(2,817 posts)
33. Thank you for the correction. I rely so much on DU to not only supply facts, but to correct misinformation.
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 07:42 PM
Sep 2024

Bucky

(55,334 posts)
54. Well, as Jane Goodall said, "In war, the truth is so precious it much be protected by a bodyguard of lies"
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 09:00 PM
Sep 2024

No, wait, that was Winston Churchill

Scrivener7

(59,516 posts)
62. I'm with you. As you previously pointed out, the flood of drivel was burying
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 10:42 PM
Sep 2024

posts with actual information. And was sooo annoying.

progree

(12,972 posts)
73. That's the only possibility. MIRT's jurisdiction is for people with post counts less than 100, and forum hosts
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 11:21 PM
Sep 2024

don't have the power to FFR or PPR anyone (they can lock a thread or block someone from a forum but that's the max they can do).

LudwigPastorius

(14,723 posts)
63. It is becoming apparent that we need a "factually false post" category of Alert.
Sun Sep 1, 2024, 10:48 PM
Sep 2024

There have been more than a few OPs lately from people who won't do the basic due diligence to find out if they are spreading misinformation.

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