About a month or so ago, I suggested that everyone needs a passport or

[MineralMan]

Real ID driver's license. As usual, many people said they didn't need either, and that it was unconstitutional to have to prove your citizenship.

And now, some states are attempting to suppress the vote by requiring proof of citizenship to vote. Again, that is unconstitutional, but when has that stopped people from trying to do such things?

So, once again, I suggest you get your passport and/or your Real ID. While you're at it, order up a certified copy of your birth certificate. Get a marriage certificate, too, if you are a woman and changed your surname after you got married.

Don't like it? I don't either, but I prepare for things. There may be many things I don't like in the near future, if things go wrong.

Protect yourself. Get those documents and store them safely.

Really! Just do it!

[pecosbob]

1. When I came up these were items you stored where you could grab them on the way out of your burning house...

The Mrs. can grab the baby photos...

[MineralMan]

3. Yes. So I was taught.

I'm old at 79. But, I've always had those things, stored away in a fireproof lockbox. Add to that my DD Form 214, an official Social Security Card, and the deed to the home I own.

Now, you can get those documents replaced, given some time. Assuming of course that everything is working as it should.

But, things don't always work as they should, so that's why you have those things and keep them safe. Then, when you need them, there they are.

People think, it seems, that everything will go nicely and smoothly. Frankly, historically, that is not true at all.

[pecosbob]

8. Life is a lot more Murphy's Law than anything else IMO.

As I see it, the primary problem with the Universe is that it's constantly trying to kill us.

[MineralMan]

15. The universe does not care

Whether or not you exist. That only matters to you and a few other people, really.

[erronis]

28. And do you think the coopted officials at the voting places will always take a passport or birth certificate?

I can certainly imagine that many people will be denied the right to vote - just because those paid-for officials can do so.

[MineralMan]

30. That is a different problem.

But they're writing this into law in some states.

[Cirsium]

80. No, it isn't

I am surprised that you can't see that. All of this is part of a continuum of the efforts by the Republicans to suppress the vote.

[Ms. Toad]

73. What is required to vote is determined by state law.

Until about 2 years ago, you could not use your passport to vote. But you could use your electric bill.

Now you can't use your electric bill, but you can use your passport.

You could not use a birth certificate under either the old law or the new law.

[Jack Valentino]

93. The GOP aim is to require these as proof of citizenship to register to vote,

not to actually vote. They want to make it more difficult for people at the lowest income levels,
who are most likely to be lacking a birth certificate,
but who are most likely to vote Democratic if they succeed in registering,
from being registered.

And that is the gist of the bill the House plans to attach to the budget,
possibly forcing a government shutdown this fall---

that one must prove citizenship in order to register to vote, nationwide.

(Statistically, it is purported that about 9 percent of the population will not have ready access to the required documentation, a pretty hefty election-turning percentage).

[Ms. Toad]

94. I was responding to a specific comment

about voting, not registering to vote.

[Jack Valentino]

95. Yes, I am not disagreeing with what you said---

only bringing up recent news where a birth certificate IS much more relevant.

I think the issue about 'proving citizenship' is misunderstood by some people,
regarding voting vs. registering to vote. Just hoping to clarify things a bit.

[pnwmom]

97. The R's plan to hold the US budget negotiations hostage to their proof of identity bill

which would require voters of all states to prove citizenship in order to vote.

As we both know, undocumented immigrants very rarely try to vote.

What I think is really happening is that they are trying to suppress WOMEN'S votes. Large numbers of women voters are married and using their husband's name. Their birth certificate won't prove their citizenship, like it would for someone who hadn't changed their name. So they need a name change document ( a marriage certificate) or a REAL ID (which 44% of drivers still don't have -- and the number is probably higher among women, because of the name change issue) or a Passport.

[erronis]

120. Yes, I think you are absolutely right. It is to suppress the votes of women.

Well laid out.

[Ms. Toad]

123. Not just women, but minorities (especially older minorities).

Many older, especially black, individuals didn't have birth certificates (birth at home, with a midwife; registration of birth by black midwives actively discouraged), and the accepted substitutes (baptismal records, e.g.), were destroyed in the 50s/60s, with destruction of black churches.

[pnwmom]

127. Yes -- but women are a higher fraction of the population, so R's will cut more votes in that group.

[Ms. Toad]

138. They aren't limited to one target population per tactic. n/t

[pnwmom]

146. Of course they're not. But it's long been known that people of color and Hispanics are targeted,

It's not generally known that women are being targeted in these laws, too -- in addition to the usual victims.

R's might have even more success knocking substantial numbers of women off the rolls.

Women need to be aware.

[Ms. Toad]

153. I've been discussing it for years. n/t

[pnwmom]

154. Good. We need to keep it up, because the message isn't getting through.

Have you seen any major media articles discussing this issue with respect to married women? There needs to be more.

[LeftInTX]

155. At home births have been followed up by birth certificates for quite awhile.

Here is my husband's uncle from 1930



15 years ago, it was a big deal in Texas, but 15 years ago many of those birth were before 1920.

His mom's was similar, but didn't indicate whether the practitioner was a doctor or midwife, but I believe she was a midwife, based on lack of credentials.

My dad was born at home via midwife, but Wisconsin has a very different public record system than Texas. So, I can't find a birth certificate for anyone born in Wisconsin. Even people born in hospitals.

[Ms. Toad]

156. Yes and no.

Many midwives serving black families never recorded the births, and in some instances were actively discouraged from registering the births they attended. So if you are an older black person, born at home, you are less likely to have had your birth registered than if you are an older white person born at home. (Here is an article about the general problem: https://facetofacegermantown.org/many-americans-obtaining-birth-certificate-proves-challenging-alfred-lubrano-inquirer-staff-writer/)

In addition, because of targeting of black churches, which resulted in destruction of black churches, secondary documents (baptismal records, for example) - needed to create a birth certificate - are more likely to have been lost or destroyed for blacks than whites. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_against_African-American_churches.

(My father was born at home and has a birth certificate. But he was a white farmer in Nebraska, not a black in the south.)

[LeftInTX]

157. With the exception of one grandparent, three were from Mexico and never became US citizens.

All of their children's births had certificates. (15 altogether)

The father of the birth I showed, lived in constant fear of authorities. Yet, he's on there, name, address and all.
He was actually deported at one time and had snuck back in.

[Ms. Toad]

158. I'm less familiar with the process for recording Mexican births

(or even births of non-US citizens in the US) than with how registration of births by midwives for black families were handled.

[LeftInTX]

159. They were born in the US to non-citizens. His parents, uncles and aunt are all US citizens because they were born here.

Maybe that is why they went through the effort to obtain birth certificates?

Until very recently, (I'm talking very recent) births in Mexico were recorded on ledgers..LOL Scribes were used. Had to keep all those jobs for clerks going! Forms were not used until the late 20th Century.

Here are Mexican birth certificates:

[Ms. Toad]

160. I'm glad they were able to accomplish it -

Unfortunately, a number of disproportionate number of black Americans are not able to both because their birth was not recorded, secondary records that can be used to establish birth were destroyed, and older relatives who could attest to their births were no longer living by the time voting laws requiring documentation of citizenship started being required.

[LiberalArkie]

114. Only the passport of RealID proved that you are the person registered and not

someone pretending to be you.

But neither prove that you live in that precinct at the moment. So I can see that an electric bill might be required in areas where people move around a lot. Like college aged kids.

[Ms. Toad]

122. That was kind of the reasoning.

Before a couple is years ago they focused on proving residence. Now they are focused on proving identity. Passports are evidence of identity, but not residence. Electric bills are evidence of residence.

[summer_in_TX]

109. Those documents are required to get REAL ID.

While voter ID has other types available, the REAL ID drivers license is preferred. In Texas all drivers licenses renewed since 2016.

It's onerous to verify your identity sufficiently to get that drivers license. First, Texas closed many Department of Public Safety offices, reducing the number especially in South Texas. (Why South Texas, you ask? Because a higher percentage of Hispanics live there and they tend to vote Democratic.) Anyway it now takes about 6 months to get an appointment to get a drivers license at many locations, because they cut their capacity. And the State added more steps. Birth certificate (original one with seal), marriage certificate(s)/divorce court orders affecting name change(s).

Since women are more likely to have changed their name upon marriage, they are the ones most impacted by the name change documentation requirements. Do they even know where the copies of those are, after a move or two? Maybe in a cardboard box somewhere still?

It's been maybe 3-4 years since I had to renew my drivers license, but it was very time consuming. Plus the DPS office was a 45 minute drive away. Nowhere close to public transportation either. Pretty far outside the city limits too, so if able to use Uber or Lyft it would have cost quite a bit. If I hadn't had a car of my own and had to rely on someone else to take me, it would have been even more problematic. The cost in time and money even for those with their own transportation was a lot.

[pnwmom]

128. Yes, to all this. And if the R's succeed in getting the voter identity bill passed

in order to pass the US budget, millions of women could find themselves suddenly disenfranchised.

[LeftInTX]

162. I got a next day appointment in Castroville. Bexar County is booked for about a month these days

San Antonio:
Leon Valley Mega Center had a 32-day lag for appointments and a 40-minute wait once there.
General McMullen office was a 27-day wait and a 25-minute average in-office wait.
Southeast was a 26-day wait and a 26-minute wait in-office
Pat Booker office was a 44-day wait with an 11-minute average wait in-office.

Affluent Red Boerne had the second longest wait in the SA Metro area.

Red Kerrville Renewal/Replacement 24
Red Fredericksburg Renewal/Replacement 21

The metro areas are the ones with the waits. With the exception of Pearsall, South Texas has short waits. (My hunch is that Pearsall has very limited staffing) Uvalde has a wait of 28 days. The rest has less than 10 days.

Red areas seem to have longer waits than South Texas.
It's probably because those areas are growing.
The Rio Grande Valley has a 2-7 day wait.

Pearsall apparently has the worse wait in the entire state, but it's close to Cotulla. My hunch is there are serious staffing issues in Pearsall.

South Texas DMV's
Appointment type Est. wait (days) In-office wait (hr:min)

Eagle Pass Renewal/Replacement 2 0:00
Del Rio Renewal/Replacement 2 0:00
Laredo Renewal/Replacement 9 0:26
Zapata Renewal/Replacement 1 0:01
Uvalde Renewal/Replacement 28 0:00
Cotulla Renewal/Replacement 5 0:10
Crystal City Renewal/Replacement 7 0:00
Kingsville Renewal/Replacement 0 0:02
Beeville Renewal/Replacement 4 0:00
Corpus Christi Renewal/Replacement 2 0:05
McAllen Renewal/Replacement 2 0:00
Mission Renewal/Replacement 1 0:02
Weslaco Renewal/Replacement 2 0:11
Rio Grande City Renewal/Replacement 1 0:14
Brownsville Renewal/Replacement 7 0:01
Harlingen Renewal/Replacement 6 0:05
Edinburg Mega Center Renewal/Replacement 1 0:00
Victoria Renewal/Replacement 3 0:35
Pearsall Renewal/Replacement 63 0:54 ( Why??..Just go to Cotulla)
Castroville Renewal/Replacement 18 0:10 (SA Metro)
New Braunfels Renewal/Replacement 12 0:03 (SA Metro)
Boerne Renewal/Replacement 42 0:06 (SA Metro)
Seguin Renewal/Replacement 21 0:23 (SA Metro)
Floresville Renewal/Replacement 13 0:08 (SA Metro)




https://www.expressnews.com/politics/article/san-antonio-dmv-appointments-18566365.php

Anyway, in late Oct 2022, I drove 25 miles to Castroville. It was a pleasant drive with little traffic.

[summer_in_TX]

163. Excellent information!

It took me about 5 months to get an appointment a little ways north of New Braunfels. I recently was helping a friend. She found lots of waits of four or more months, but was finally able to get one in South Austin with about a three week wait. We considered that lucky.

[LeftInTX]

164. It's probably getting a bit better. But gosh, it looks like there aren't many sites in the Hill Country.

They seem to be all over South Texas.

They probably need to build more sites out there. I put in all the towns west and east of Austin and came up blank: Blanco, Burnet, Dripping Springs, Leander, Cedar Park, Elgin etc. They don't have sites. And those towns are much closer to each other than the South Texas towns. So the overall population is much larger than south of SA.

I would expect most of those towns to have sites if Castroville pop 3,000 has a site, (I don't think they planned for the Hill Country population boom) Castroville has their site in the city offices or something...

[summer_in_TX]

166. Wouldn't put it past Greg Abbott, Ken Paxton, and Dan Patrick to have limited access for areas that

are more blue to purple. But I actually don't know more than that Austin is blue and Hays is purple, just speculating. They're pretty Machiavellian.

[LeftInTX]

168. The Hill Country is pretty f'ing red. I think they just didn't plan for population growth.

They could put a center in Blanco, maybe one in Dripping Springs another in Leander/Cedar Park. They need several more east of Austin too: Maybe one in Luling. Bastrop and Lockhart both have bad wait times, so maybe two more in that general area.

The blue area of the Rio Grande Valley has seven Yet the much more populated area of the Hill Country only has them in Marble Falls, Kerrville and Fredericksburg. And the area east of Austin only has them in Lockhart and Bastrop. They could put one in Luling.


Oh well, Austin has the bigger, badder airport that leaves San Antonio's in the dust......

[summer_in_TX]

169. A number of years ago, I read that a number of DPS offices were being closed.

It's a bit fuzzy in my memory but I got the impression it was being done to disenfranchise likely Democratic voters. But your list makes me think perhaps that didn't happen.

[LeftInTX]

170. They were planning to close a bunch. But I think Covid put a damper on their study.

https://www.texastribune.org/2018/08/29/drivers-license-closure-DPS-sunset/


Here is the population over New Braunfels over time. It's crazy! I really don't think they were anticipating this!


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Braunfels,_Texas

I don't think there were ever DPS/DMV facilities in Dripping Springs/Wimberly/Blanco. I think everyone in those resort towns were just content to drive to Fredericksburg/San Marcos or New Braunfels. Can you imagine the uproar if they would closed one in those towns?

[summer_in_TX]

171. I'm relieved to know that!

And thank you for the link to the Texas Tribune article.

[Delphinus]

48. That

reminds me of a book I read by a scientist: "Mother Nature Is Trying to Kill You!". I was a good read and I really learned a lot.

[JJ101]

21. Me too

I also have official birth, death and marriage certificates for my immediate family in mine.

[mucholderthandirt]

67. One of the first things I did when I came back home was to register my DD214 with the county.

Being at the Register of Deeds Office means I can get a copy any business day, rather than waiting months to get a copy from the government.

My birth certificate is there, my marriage license, and my divorce decree as well. My SS card is in a fireproof box with any copies of legal documents I have (children's birth certificates as well, as two were born in AZ).

It's always a good idea to have copies of all important documents in a place they are safe and accessible. Life insurance, homeowner's insurance, bank and tax info, car titles, deeds. Lots of stuff.

[jimfields33]

82. I scanned all my documents and sent them to myself through e-mail so if worse comes to worse,

I have copies.

[dpibel]

108. Comedy gold!

Hey, Mr. Customs Man! I have this document here in my email!!

For sure! That'll settle it.

[JoseBalow]

42. My family used a bank safety deposit box for important documents

[MineralMan]

70. That's OK, unless the banks are shut down.

If that happened, you'd be out of luck.

[Chakaconcarne]

2. Never a bad idea to have a passport on the ready...

I think the expirations are after 10 years for adults.

[MineralMan]

4. Yes. 10 years. Don't forget to renew.

[applegrove]

5. Especially if you are a woman who has taken your partner's last name where your birth certificate will not

match your current name.Seems to be gambit to keep women from voting.

[MineralMan]

6. Yes, I mentioned that in the original post.

My wife did not change her name, 33 years ago when we got married. I never saw the sense in women taking their husband's names in the first place.

Are women not the same person when they marry? I think they are exactly that person. Keep your name.

[applegrove]

59. I probably got the info it was an attack on women from you

yesterday. Sorry I did not attribute it to you. I just remember ideas mostly.

[babsbunny]

7. I am getting my passport

I already applied and they are in possession of my application. I couldn't get my Real ID, I was married before, my Ex has passed away and I don't have everything I would need to get a Real ID. I did have everything I needed for the passport, so thanks for the advise!

[LittleGirl]

40. A passport is an acceptable form of ID

So you can change or update your Real ID driver’s license. Plus a utility bill for your proof of address. Or deed.

[LeftInTX]

56. You can also use your passport to obtain a Real ID. That's what I used (I think )

[MineralMan]

134. Yes. I used mine, along with my vehicle registration.

That was all I needed, along with my old driver's license.

You need to show evidence of your place of residence. That's only for DMV and voter registration, though. If all you need is proof of identity, the passport is the single best thing you can have. A Real ID is second best, but fits in your wallet.

The thing is that you're going to need one or the other to enter a lot of federal buildings before long. You need ID to even get into the local Social Security offices. Or a federal courthouse.

[LeftInTX]

148. Social Security is gonna hurt alot of people! I assume IRS? We also have a few other federal buildings in town.

[MineralMan]

150. I don't know how much that is enforced.

Or if it is at all.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

9. I have both and took both to vote in Texas primary

My driver's license was loved by the aussie/husky rescue but still worked without using the passport.

[Prairie_Seagull]

10. Great advise MineralMan.

Better to have and not need than, well you know the rest.

[OneGrassRoot]

11. REAL ID won't work! It is for identity only, not citizenship. More info:

This is the PSA I posted on FB:

PSA for anyone whose current legal name does not match the name on their birth certificate:
The GOP is pushing "proof of citizenship" to vote in the US to prevent undocumented people voting which is essentially nonexistent. But this would impact many other people.

I just went through the mess of getting my license renewed and learning about REAL ID. I chose not to get REAL ID because it would have required I provide a marriage license AND divorce certificate because they need to be able to trace all legal events leading from your birth name to your current name. If you're facing this and don't have a passport and can afford to get one, do that. It's actually easier than REAL ID if your name doesn't match what is on your birth certificate.

But the proof of citizenship for voting brings this issue into play. The same would be true to be able to vote. Your current name must match what is on your birth certificate. A passport IS proof of citizenship but a REAL ID is merely proof of identity, not citizenship.

I imagine this impacts women most (shocker) but other US citizens would be impacted as well.

All in all, with the way things are going as far as proof of ID and citizenship, I strongly encourage people to get passports or make sure you have the necessary documents to show the trail of why your name changed from what is on the birth certificate. I have a passport but ordered my marriage and divorce certificates just in case. Some sort of fund should be started for low-income persons who can't afford a passport or the various other documents needed. This is one example of why democrats oppose increasing barriers to voting because 9 times out of 10 it impacts people who have a right to vote but can't afford to due to changing ID requirements.

[MineralMan]

16. Not so. Real ID is designed

To require proof of citizenship. Which is why it requires proof of same.

[OneGrassRoot]

34. One would think so...

because, at least for someone like myself whose current legal name doesn’t match my birth certificate, it was easier to get a passport than REAL ID.

Which is why I was surprised to keep getting results via online searches saying REAL ID doesn’t provide proof of citizenship. Perhaps this is why. According to dhs.gov:

Noncitizens lawfully admitted for permanent or temporary residence, noncitizens with conditional permanent resident status, noncitizens with an approved application for asylum, and noncitizens who have entered the United States as refugees are eligible for a full-term REAL ID license or identification card.

[LauraInLA]

44. Apparently REAL ID is for both citizens and legal residents -- I did not know this! Surely not state-by-state?!

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/driver-licenses-identification-cards/real-id/what-is-real-id/real-id-info-non-u-s-citizens/

[Joinfortmill]

38. This is why, many years ago, I took back my maiden name.

If I understand correctly, you can take your maiden name at any time. I had it put in divorce papers, but I don't think that is required, I have never been asked about it. I have Real ID and a passport. If I hadn't done it, what a mess it would have been getting all these docs. I no longer even have the divorce papers.

[LeftInTX]

57. You can obtain a Real ID without being a US citizen.

I don't know why you would want it, but you can.

Many non citizens have driver's licenses.

[Joinfortmill]

81. RealID helps expedite boarding on airlines.

[LeftInTX]

86. But non-citizens also have passports from their respective countries. Many of them also have driver's licenses.

[Joinfortmill]

88. Yup, a passport will get you expedited boarding, too. Not a regular driver's license. Only RealID

[usonian]

12. People who live in areas of fire danger have evacuation kits at the ready.

CA has guides.

Emergency Supplies
https://readyforwildfire.org/prepare-for-wildfire/emergency-supply-kit/

DHS info
https://www.ready.gov/wildfires#prepare

No place is safe from natural disasters or man-made disasters.

[MineralMan]

19. Well the smart ones do, anyhow.

[usonian]

31. If you are in an evacuation zone, and not at home, deputies generally will let you go grab stuff.

Especially people and pets.

Better to be ready in advance.

As for domestic terroism, I prefer, and hope that the trouble makers leave voluntarily, and leave peaceful people in peace.

https://democraticunderground.com/132237527

Putin is hiring.

[Voltaire2]

13. It's a barrier for poor people.

Which in this country makes it a barrier that is racially discriminatory. It is the return of poll taxes and ‘literacy’ tests.

They know they are becoming more of a minority every year. So their hold on power requires restricting the demographics of who can vote.

[MineralMan]

18. Also for poorly educated and

stupid people. Which is why laws using such criteria will have more impact on MAGA types than Democrats. It is going to backfire.

[mobeau69]

33. LOL

[LauraInLA]

45. From your lips to God's ears!

[Clouds Passing]

14. I did it because of your suggestion. Thank you Mineral Man.

I had to send for a new birth certificate because my old birth certificates were out of date. Then I applied for my passport. Got both of them combined in three weeks total!
We were renewed my husband’s a week later, it took three weeks to get his.
All together cost us about $370

Joe’s got that passport office working like a well oiled machine! Thanks, Joe!

[Mossfern]

22. Just curious

How can a birth certificate be out of date?

[Clouds Passing]

23. The passport office now requires both parents names be on the bc, mine had neither.

[Mossfern]

32. Ah, my friend has a similar problem

She lost her original birth certificate and when she requested a new copy, she didn't know what name to put down for her parents because she and her family knew them by their nick names. She doesn't know which name or in which combination they gave.

[LeftInTX]

87. Depending on what state she was born in, she might be able to find herself on Family Search.

Some states don't list births for 100 years. Texas lists after 18 years. My kid's births are all on there.
However, I was born in PA and my birth is not on there and will likely not be in my lifetime.

[Mossfern]

103. Thanks

I'll let her know

[DownriverDem]

17. Have my passport

I don't have a Real ID yet because I could renew my license online. I will get a RealID when I have to renew my license. I never changed my name when I married so I am good there.

[iemanja]

20. I need to get mine

I think it's going to be the law in MN next year, isn't it?

[MineralMan]

25. Yes. For your DL.

Not for voting.

[pnwmom]

99. The R's RIGHT NOW are holding the US budget negotiations hostage,

demanding passage of their Proof of identity for voting bill in exchange.

[NotASurfer]

24. And if you're a woman who's been married more than once, two more things

(1) copies of all previous marriage certs
(2) copies of the divorce certs

Originals or certified copies. No screen prints of public records.

Think of it this way: in the proto-Republics of Gideon, the concern of the government is not that a woman can vote, but rather to establish unbroken chain of custody to a male citizen going all the way back to birth.

[MineralMan]

27. Don't change your name.

That avoids the problem.

[TheKentuckian]

64. Yep, seems to be way more trouble than it is worth.

[Clouds Passing]

35. I had to show...

Original and/or certified copy of:

Birth certificate with both parents names and raised state seal
1st marriage license
Divorce decree
2nd marriage license
Original very expired passport


For Real ID:

All of the above except for passport
Proof of Residency (Utility Bill)

[moniss]

26. Sage advice. nt

[Mossfern]

29. I just attempted to get my real ID when renewing my license

I waited at the DMV for more than two hours even though I had and appointment. When I finally got to the window, the agent told me that the link to the Passport office (to confirm authenticity) was down. To top it off, when I received my new license in the mail, I found that they included my hated middle name some how. So now I have to suffer the hours long wait to get the real id and my name amended. I'm sure they will want to charge me again.

Fortunately I do have a passport as well as a passport card that I can carry in my wallet.
This is in New Jersey BTW.

[MineralMan]

124. I think the Real ID license requires your full legal name.

So does Social Security and a number of other documents. Passports, too. It's a pretty good idea to standardize on your full legal name, as it appears on your birth certificate for anything important. The problem is that there are others with your name. The combination of your full legal name and your birthdate and birthplace are more likely to be unique.

[Mossfern]

149. Thanks, but

I didn't receive a real ID license. The agency link was down when I got to the agent. I called and need to make another appointment (hopefully not another fee) and hopefully not another 2 hour wait! I guess I can accept my hated middle name on my license - it's certainly better than the photo they took.

[MineralMan]

151. The less said about photos, the better.

I can't say my passport photo is a good one, either. Don't care, though.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

36. I emailed off my passport renewal two weeks ago. Getting the real ID soon

[larwdem]

37. My wife and I got real ID

[twodogsbarking]

39. We just talked about it today. Good advice.

[COL Mustard]

41. Plan ahead

What would be funny is if this had unintended consequence and ended up disqualifying Republicans.

Actually that wouldn’t be funny; they have the right to vote too.

[MineralMan]

139. Actually, I expect that it will do just that.

Especially the hard-core MAGA types. They aren't too bright, overall. One of the things they resist is any form of "National ID." So, they might just find themselves without the ID they need to vote, in some states.

It would be a nice irony to observe. Of course, I live in Minnesota, which has what might well be the best voting system in the country. We also have the highest turnout of voters in most elections. If anyone is looking for a high-functioning voting system, I'd recommend looking at Minnesota.

[Wednesdays]

43. Common sense. I'm adding this to my daily calendar/voting info posts!

Thanks!

[ancianita]

46. And while one still can. Better to have them and not need them than the real disaster of needing them.

If Democrats were to lose (God forbid) it's more than likely there would be limited to no access to travel documents.

All grounds for deporting if one can't prove citizenship; if one was a voting Democrat, all to the better. Birthright citizenship isn't a guarantee anymore.

[MineralMan]

52. Indeed.

[LauraInLA]

47. If cost isn't a barrier, get a passport card! It's only good for travel to Mexico and Canada, but it fits

in your wallet!

[MineralMan]

53. You can get both

[LauraInLA]

58. Oh, of course! I just meant that if you can afford to do the extra card, it's easier to carry everywhere

you go in your wallet. My son used it as ID before he had a drivers license. And sometimes places do require 2 forms of ID. It’s just a convenience, but it isn’t cheap.

[Speaks2]

49. Constitution

Forget that argument if there's any chance you might fly (loved ones a plane away?). You'll need one of the two and won't have time to get it if you must fly immediately.

[usaf-vet]

50. Ok figure this out. Remember when they said a voter ID had to be a state issued pictured ID.

So when I applied for a concealed carry gun permit, I included a passport picture from my recent passport renewal and
they returned it with a note saying they did not need a picture.

Why would they not want a picture on a gun carry permit?

So now I have a state-issued concealed carry permit THAT can't be used as a voter ID.

DUMB or what?

[iluvtennis]

51. Great advice MineralMan. With these inane policies, we'll be a country where anytime the powers that be can say "Show

me your papers".

[DSandra]

54. Passports are not cheap

A first time passport is $165, plus $60 for expedited service.

[MineralMan]

55. True.

But, then...

[ancianita]

61. Consider them an investment in freedom, mobility & safety. They're good for 10 yrs for adults & 5 yrs for under 15 yrs.

Seriously. Children's futures are also an important investment. Use a credit card, if possible.
I'd compare the cost of a passport to the cost of a dinner out for two.

When it comes to options, passports are not just a last resort, but a legal means for everyone to survive a situation that could devolve into an illiberal autocracy, where lives are subject to dictatorial decisions about who stays and who goes. Who would want to live with that possibility, right?

Have plan B and C destinations across the border ready, and airline schedules ready as well.

[Cirsium]

60. not a solution

It is a social issue not a personal issue. If it were easy to comply with the Voter ID laws the Republicans wouldn't be enacting them.

Are you seriously suggesting that everyone get a passport? How are you going to make that happen? I doubt the passport office could handle the flood of applications by election time.

[TheKentuckian]

65. The poll tax keeps going up. Passports are far from free.

[CTyankee]

71. I thought a poll tax was declared unconstituional by the Supreme Court.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

Which "poll" tax are you referring to?

[TheKentuckian]

74. This is a backdoor one. In order to access the franchise a person needs to pay for the Passport

If an ID is necessary to vote then it should be no cost otherwise it is effectively a poll tax.

Folks with a little folding money shouldn't be so comfortable with what is and isn't a big deal for those with less.

[CTyankee]

76. OF COURSE, it is a effectively a poll tax! Isn't this being litigated as just that?

It would seem that an organization like the ACLU might be interested in doing this.

[Cirsium]

78. Exactly

Many of the document functions have been privatized and it can be extremely expensive and time consuming.

[ancianita]

89. Passports take 3-4 weeks. I just got mine renewed. Expedited passports can be obtained within days. The country is up

from 5% in 1990 to 48% today. That's millions of State Dept issued documents. One can take an hour at the local passport office to get it started early.

[MineralMan]

126. I'm not going to make anything happen.

Yes, I am suggesting everyone get a passport. But, that decision is every one's to make.

On another note, though, why would you not have one? I got my first one when I started working as a freelance writer for various magazines. Even though I had never gotten an assignment that involved international travel, I got my passport and included a line in my introduction letter to editors that read:

"Available for assignment worldwide."

Guess what. After including that line, it was less than three months before I had my first assignment outside of the country.

So, yes. Have a passport. You never know.

[Cirsium]

135. Not about you

I am not talking about you. I am talking about voter suppression and an ever growing police state, which is what all of this ID nonsense is about.

[MineralMan]

136. But you are replying TO me.

You see, I'm making a suggestion. I do that sometimes. As a couple of people in this thread said, some have followed my suggestion from an earlier post and now have those IDs.

Why do you need them? Well, I said that, too. What you are saying is true, but none of us can change the current situation on our own. We can change it if we gather enough votes to prevent those who would make those bad things happen from getting their way. But that's another thing. I'm working on that, as best I can, and I assume you are as well.

That's the long-term solution. If that doesn't work, though, I suggest that you get your passport now, before the rush is on.

[Cirsium]

141. Seriously?

If I reply to someone I have to be talking about them?

I am talking about what you posted, not you personally.

[MineralMan]

142. What I post is a representation of what I think.

So...

[Cirsium]

147. OK

You are a long time member and I am very new. I don't want to get into a feud with you. I am simply making the point that there is a voter suppression issue involved in this and that cannot be solved by clever individual strategies.

And no, disagreeing with what someone says is not an attack on the person.

[arlyellowdog]

62. I'm not getting a passport

I’ve sat through the vacation photos of all my siblings and friends to Italy and to visit the “cousins” in Ireland. Nieces and nephews jetting off to the new hot spot, Japan. Sweet to have money. I’m the poor schmuck who’s never been anywhere. But I live in a state where I won’t have to present a passport and I’m a proud poor widow who is not going to be intimidated into getting a passport.

[Cirsium]

143. Thank you for that

The entitlement and self-centeredness on this thread is pretty disturbing.

[aggiesal]

63. The passport is the closest document to prove your citizenship ...

but even that is not a guarantee because the State Dept. sometimes issues passports to non-citizen for specific purposes.
Birth Certificate are also close, but people move out of the country and gain citizenship in their new country, how would a birth certificate help?
I won't get started on a driver's license.

As for Real ID, my Passport & my Passport card has it, but I refused to get a driver's license with Real ID.
We drove for over 100+ years without the government knowing we're we were going.
Now is like the old USSR where you needed travel papers to be able to walk across the street.
This has to be unconstitutional.

[LeftInTX]

90. You are a US citizen if you are born in the US. Unless you renounce your citizenship.....

[aggiesal]

104. Right that is why a birth certificate is not a document that proves your a citizen n/t

[LeftInTX]

105. It proves you are a citizen if it is a US birth certificate.

If you renounce your citizenship, you likely are not in the US. Yes, there is such a thing as dual citizenship, but it's dual, so that still means you are a US citizen. There are a few countries that don't allow dual citizenship, but you can still get the US passport because all you need is your birth certificate and another form of ID.

All voter registration forms ask if you are a US citizen. It would be pretty hard to determine that you had renounced your citizenship and that you were lying.


Who would want to vote here after renouncing their citizenship???

[aggiesal]

106. And how do you know they haven't renounced their citizenship? ...

That's the point.

[LeftInTX]

107. Same with a passport.

[aggiesal]

110. Not at all. You can only be a US citizen to get a passport ...

When you renounce your country, in the US, by law you have to return your passport.

[LeftInTX]

111. Well, Oswald didn't..

Why would you be here voting if you renounced your citizenship?

[aggiesal]

112. If you read this State Department document ...

Oswalt went to the US Consulate in Moscow and informed them that he was renouncing his US citizenship. He presented his passport, but he never signed the paperwork.
He left and was expected to return the following day to sign the papers, but he never returned, so he never officially renounced his US citizenship.

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/finding-aids/mosk-59167870.pdf

[Bucky]

66. I hate that you're right. All that paperwork is a defacto poll tax.

[Hekate]

68. Ours are good until 2028 (I just checked, thanks to you) . In 2018 I insisted we update ours...

…due to Trump scaring the bejaysus out of me. (Tucked away a little cash in the house, too) Still haven’t upgraded my DL, because it’s not time to renew yet.

Among my grab&go papers are copies of my 2 adult kids’ birth certs — my daughter is careless with paperwork (understatement of the year) and for my son it’s on general principles.

[bdamomma]

69. Can the

ACLU be contacted about things like this???? I mean being intimidated at the polls to cast your ballot, in our rights to vote?

[a kennedy]

72. I am waiting for my MN enhanced drivers license.....

👍🏻

[OldBaldy1701E]

116. You may be waiting a while.

I have lived in five different states, and this DMV is the slowest one I have ever dealt with. It has been decades since I had to wait for weeks before I got my new license. But, I moved up here, and voila`! Four to six week wait just to get your new one.

(Sorry guys, but I moved here from Tennessee, and I was always able to leave my DMV appointment with my new license in hand. Why can't MN do this?)

Also, some of us cannot afford this. I wanted a Real ID. When I saw the cost, well, that idea went away. I have my passport. It will expire this year. I doubt I can afford a new one. So, whatever these slime balls are up to, it will be people like me who suffer for it. Because we seldom have any other choice. As usual.

[a kennedy]

119. Damn, and ya it was expensive.....it's been 4 weeks already. 😡 😡 😡

[RidinWithHarris]

75. If a case like gets appealed to the current SCOTUS, they'll make actual flat-out poll taxes "constitutional"

Exact wording of the 24th Amendment be damned. Constitutional because they say so.

[ailsagirl]

77. Thank you for reminding us!

I am now in the process of gathering together all of the docs I need in order to obtain a Real ID.

It's time.

[LonePirate]

79. If Trump somehow wins, having your passport may help ensure you are not deported, though that's not a guarantee.

He will do this even if one or both chambers of Congress are blue. Countless actual citizens will be caught up in this mess and having a passport may be one of the reasons people are not deported. Still, even with a passport, the MAGA crowd will use the power of the government to deport whoever they want regardless of citizenship status.

[Frank D. Lincoln]

100. I think you're right. nt

[progree]

83. BIRTH CERTIFICATE - that thing your parents got from the hospital with the cute little footprint IS NOT a birth

certificate, at least that's what I was told when I first applied for real ID in December 2019 in Minnesota. "That's a memento".

So when applying for real ID, be sure to have a real birth certificate. Whatever website you are using that explains real ID requirements, be sure to carefully read what the requirements of a birth certificate are.

I had to write to some office in California, and hoping I didn't screw up or miss something, but it went smoothly thereafter, I think it took 3 weeks or somesuch for California to respond and mail me my real birth certificate.

This is a post to the thread, not to the OP, just to save some people who might read this an extra trip or thinking they have a birth certificate when they only have "a memento".

[radical noodle]

85. Absolutely true

What you get from the state (often after paying a fee) is a certified birth certificate which is a legal document. Everyone should get a copy of theirs and keep it in a safe place.

[LeftInTX]

91. The old microfiche one is no longer accepted either.

I remember I hunted mine down only to find out it that I couldn't use it..

[radical noodle]

84. When I got my real ID in Florida

They wanted my divorce papers from 20+ years before (in Indiana) because they wanted to track my name changes. They finally made an exception due to the length of time that had passed and my convincing story that I no longer had the documents.

[Ferrets are Cool]

92. I cannot vote without my drivers license.

Alabama.

[Pinback]

96. Georgia has been issuing Real ID-compliant driver's licenses since 2012

https://dds.georgia.gov/georgia-licenseid/general-license-topics/real-id

…although there are documentation hoops you have to go through in order to get the “Gold star” (Real ID) license issued.

It’s easier for most people here to get a DL than a passport. I did update my passport within the past couple of years.

I’m not sure how this relates to other states, but in Georgia we have to be on top of making sure our voting credentials are solid.

[pnwmom]

98. Those "documentation hoops" are higher for married women who have changed their surnames.

I tried to order my marriage certificate from the state where I was married, since I needed it along with my birth certificate to get REAL ID. The state finally sent me an email listing the documents I needed to send them to prove my identity. One of them was my marriage certificate -- the document I had just requested from them!

[Pinback]

121. Yep -- any name discrepancies or address changes make it harder

which is all part of the plan. So, unfortunately — those of us living in Republican-controlled states, especially — we have to allow extra time for red tape and obstacles.

[CaptainTruth]

101. Agreed! And isn't Real ID required to fly domestically in the US?

I remember some years ago it was reported that a Real ID compliant ID would be required for domestic flights, but it got delayed & I'm not sure if that requirement ever went into effect.

I've had a passport my entire adult life & when Real ID requirements were announced my state upgraded their driver's licenses & state IDs to be Real ID compliant, so it's never been an issue for me.

But yes, as you say, everyone should have one if not both. Personally I feel better having a passport, but then I travel internationally multiple times a year so I need one.

[Frank D. Lincoln]

102. Oh, the problems Republicans cause.

They're the political party from hell.

[LostOne4Ever]

113. I just got a passport!

More in case of emergency if I need to leave the US should we be heading to authoritarianism.

[beemerphill]

115. Excellent Advice

NO ONE knows what the future will bring. Having these will not cost much in time or money, and could be crucial if needed.

[PJMcK]

117. Great advice

For years, I've used my passport as ID at airports. Often, the guard will wave me forward to the head of the line or to a shorter line. The document is compact and fits in my backpack with my other important papers.

Our birth and marriage certificates are easily accessible in our filing cabinet. The deed to our house, titles to our cars, Social Security documents and a few other papers are in a safe deposit box at the bank half mile from our house.

We feel our documents are secure and available.

Of course, with the planned invasiveness of MAGA, we don't have much to personally worry about since we're white, employed and have a little money. Many other people, particularly minorities and immigrants, will be targeted by these un-American proposals. It's as if I grew up in a different country!

[MineralMan]

140. Great, except for the bank safe deposit box.

Access to those documents could be difficult in certain situations. If the bank is closed, you have no access. If banks get shut down, which has happened. If you cannot find your physical key to that box, it can take some time to access your papers, as well.

I advise not keeping any documents you might need immediately in any bank safe deposit box.

[BrightKnight]

118. It wouldn't hurt to lock down w yubikeys, encrypted Proton email

and other basic life security measures. More authoritarian governments tend to target political opponents with surveillance and harassment.

Probably not much that could be done against something like a politicized NSA. Basic privacy measures are always a good idea anyway.

[ecstatic]

125. Uggh. Well I have all my papers

If we end up in a mass deportation police state, everyone who pisses off a cop or someone in power can potentially be thrown into an unregulated deportation camp.

But it's not clear if our papers (stored safely at home) would help to get out of that situation. What would the protocols be? Would we get a hearing? How long would that take?

[Frank D. Lincoln]

137. You do realize that none of that HAS to happen, provided...

...President Biden keeps his oath of office to defend the U.S. Constitution:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Biden should already have it worked out with the national guard and the joint chiefs of staff to, under no circumstances, allow Trump to regain the White House.

Given that if Trump regains the White House, legitimately or illegitimately, takes full advantage of SCOTUS's ruling on presidential immunity, and implements Project 2025 to the hilt, that would obviously be the end of the constitution, President Biden would be in violation of his oath of office if he let that happen.

Plus, it would be the height of stupidity to let a man who incited a violent insurrection on J6 and who attempted a fake elector scheme to unlawfully remain in power and who everyone knows is planning another coup for 2024, to regain the White House and become a dictator on Day 1. If President Biden were to let a person like that regain the White House, by coup or legitimately, the founding fathers would be rolling in their graves at Biden's colossal obtuseness.

Kamala Harris is going to win. But even if I'm proven wrong, Trump should not be allowed to regain the White House. Biden's oath to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States takes priority even over the will of American voters.

[Mysterian]

129. Plus, you might want to get the fuck out

if the fascists gain total power, which is their goal.

[Keepthesoulalive]

130. We have them

But many people don’t have the financial ability to pay for them. How do we educate people in rural areas who are uncomfortable with government processes?

[MineralMan]

132. I don't have an answer for that, really.

Ideally, you wouldn't need them. Your drivers license or state ID should be enough for any purpose. Maybe we can return to that someday. Until then, if you can, you should equip yourself with those IDs. You may never need them, but if you do and don't have them, you could find yourself in an untenable situation.

Also, they shouldn't cost that much. But, I can't do anything about that, either.

[Martin68]

131. I like to travel abroad. I need both.

[MineralMan]

133. Yes. Not everyone is in that situation, though.

We shouldn't need such IDs. If Republicans are in power, though, it's certainly best to have them. With a passport and a credit card, you're just one flight away from getting away, if necessary and if you spot the need early enough.

[flying_wahini]

144. Ask for a provisional ballot if they question you. The requirements differ by state.

[Sneederbunk]

145. Fortunately, some of us live in states where voter suppression bs is not a problem.

[Catherine Vincent]

152. I'm in Texas. What is a real ID? I thought it was your DL?

[LeftInTX]

161. Check your DL for a gold star. Check the expiration date too.

If your license has not been renewed recently, you will go through the Real ID process next time...

[Catherine Vincent]

165. Thanks

It has a gold star and expires 2029. Passport expires 2034. I guess I'm set. 🙂

[KentuckyWoman]

167. Kick and triple kick - GOOD advice.

My husband was adopted and oh what we went through trying to get him an Ohio driver license when we moved here. These idiots blabber on about adopting kids and then refuse to recognize adoptees because no birth certificate. And for me good luck getting the marriage certificate from 1958.

Once we got the needed docs we wasted no time getting passports. We even opted for the extra passport cards. I carry the card all the time and have the book, certified marriage and birth certificates plus my advanced directive and DNR order in a fire box rated for "OMG this thing weighs a ton."

Old fashioned yes. One internet glitch or attack can take out the records.