Medicare and Social Security are my red line with the Democratic Party

[RomneyLies]

IF they cross that line, I am done with them.

YOU SHALL NOT PASS!

[Swede Atlanta]

1. I agree.....

If they cave on these then I have given my last contribution and cast my last vote. I have been looking at retirement in Central America and that is likely the next step.

[newfie11]

2. Me too

After that its time for a third party

[RKP5637]

27. If they cross that line, then we know they truly do not represent us and have

morphed, apparently, into something else.

[fascisthunter]

3. agreed!

[TheProgressive]

4. I have been debating whether to post this myself....

I am glad you did.

Here is my take: Social Security and Medicare is the most humane and civil programs
ever enacted by the United States of America. They are the cornerstone of progressives and
liberals, and defines a central belief of the Democratic Party.

Not only must Democrats *Never* weaken or otherwise diminish SS and Medicare, Democrats
must *always* seek means to strengthen these programs.

These programs are never to be a bargaining chip.

Should any legislation pass weakening SS and/or Medicare that Democrats had the ability to stop,
I would no longer be able to call myself a Democrat...

[JaneyVee]

5. Can you imagine the attack ads if a Dem cuts SS & Medicare?

[TheProgressive]

9. It would also mean that ...

...there is no longer a 'Party of the People' and that changes everything...

[JaneyVee]

10. The GOP would be able to run on "preserving" Medicare & SS and people would believe.

They would point out that Dems cut it, even though its their proposal, historically, they wouldn't get the blame.

[TheProgressive]

12. But, personally, I could never vote Republican...

No offense but they are and will always be against We The People.

I really don't know their core beliefs, but I know they are totally opposite of what normal humans believe...

[JaneyVee]

55. I agree. I would NEVER vote Republican either. Ever ever.

[RKP5637]

29. "We the people" have been losing a voice for a long time now. This, would confirm what

we fear, that we not longer have parties that represent the majority of the people, but rather special interests only.

[TheProgressive]

31. It is not that we have been losing a voice, rather we have not being vocal enough...

It is time to be very *loud*.

[RKP5637]

43. Excellent point!!! Too many today are bred to be lambs and lemmings and they play their

roles well. A docile herd going to the slaughter.

[Scuba]

13. "Not only must Democrats *Never* weaken or otherwise diminish SS and Medicare, Democrats must ...

"Not only must Democrats *Never* weaken or otherwise diminish SS and Medicare, Democrats must *always* seek means to strengthen these programs. "


Thank you.

[Barack_America]

6. That's fair.

[Junkdrawer]

7. If Obama signs SS or Medicare cuts, I'll never vote for....oh wait....

Going to be a long 4 years, ain't it?

[Honeycombe8]

24. Who told you Medicare wouldn't be cut? Not Obama. In fact, he already took $ from Medicare....

as Paul Ryan made sure you knew. Whether that qualifies as a "cut" depends on your point of view.

But Medicare has some fiscal problems, and something needs to be done. That's been clear from BOTH parties and ALL economic experts I've seen. It's been discussed here in the forum, too.

There WILL be Medicare changes. What kind of changes is the crux of the matter. Obama didn't make any firm promises in 2012, as I recall. His campaign guy did say that Obama thinks that Medicare issues can be resolved w/o having to raise the eligibility age. It's not a promise, but it's something. I hope he sticks with that.

OTOH, Obama said he didn't think the SS age eligibility should be raised, so I'm counting on that statement he made.

[forestpath]

8. K&R

[Honeycombe8]

11. In what way? You mean no changes at all to Medicare?

You know that's inevitable. Medicare is in financial trouble, "they" say. Anyone in the know that I've seen on tv, both Democrat and Republican and anything in between, whether pundit or economic expert, has said so, haven't they?

Social Security is currently solvent, though, AND not part of the budget, I've heard, so there's no need to change it at this time. And if it IS changed at some point, it should be done separately from the budget.

As Krugman wrote:

So any rise in the Social Security retirement age would, as I said, be cruel, hurting the most vulnerable Americans. And this cruelty would be gratuitous: While the United States does have a long-run budget problem, Social Security is not a major factor in that problem.

Medicare, on the other hand, is a big budget problem. But raising the eligibility age, which means forcing seniors to seek private insurance, is no way to deal with that problem. It's true that thanks to Obamacare, seniors should actually be able to get insurance even without Medicare. But let's be clear: Government insurance via Medicare is better and more cost-effective than private insurance.

http://www.chron.com/opinion/outlook/article/Krugman-Draw-line-at-cutting-Medicare-and-Social-4045013.php

[TheProgressive]

15. We the People pay for SS and Medicare thru payroll taxes...

Both have years of reservers, SS more than Medicare.

That is why SS and Medicare has *no* impact on the federal budget.

[Honeycombe8]

21. As I just quoted an expert, Medicare has a big budget problem. I've never heard

any expert on the subject say otherwise in the last couple of years, at least.

SS is totally different. It has its own budget, but there's something to do with disability that crosses over. In any case, SS is solvent for years to come. Something may have to be done on it, to continue to make it solvent. But it has no place in this fiscal cliff discussion; it has no effect on the deficit or budget at this time, is my understanding.

[ProSense]

16. Medicare's problem

is rising health care costs. Raising the eligibility age does nothing to address that. All it does is push people off Medicare.

Krugman: It’s Health Care Costs, Stupid
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021922243

[RKP5637]

33. Thank you for saying this!!! SELDOM, do we hear the real cause, the spiraling cost of

health care. Why, does it cost the US about 50% more to provide health care than other countries. It's not that our health care is so damn superior. Seldom does that get addressed, rather, we hear endless dialog about how to pay for the exorbitant rising cost of health care.

And you said, the root cause is the COST of health care. I hate to sound arrogant, but damn I often feel I live in a sea of STUPIDITY, manipulators and hucksters. Some days, often,

Thank you for the sanity you bring!!! Ohhh, I'm so tired of the endless bullshit in US = United Stupidity.

[Honeycombe8]

46. Good point, ProSense. What about that provision that doesn't let the govt negotiate drug prices?

Are the Dems so tied to big pharma that they can't do away with that provision, now? Why is no one talking about that?

[leveymg]

77. Too bad that Obamacare didn't contain adequate cost containment.

Now, we're stuck with another bad set of choices because the Dems were unwilling to exercise sufficient party discipline in the Senate to pass a decent Health Reform Bill when they had control over both Houses.

[airplaneman]

22. The United States has the best health care system in the world.

There are only two problems with it.
It is only really available to less than half the population.
It cost four times as much as any other industrialized countries in the world.
WE HAVE A HEALTH CARE COST PROBLEM AND A HEALTH CARE DELIVERY PROBLEM.
You can reduce the cost of Medicare by 75 percent just by getting in like with the rest of the world. It would also be very simple to fund both Medicare and SS if we had the will to tax more broad based and fair. Stock and derivative tax, import tax on goods to name a few.
We could double the payment of SS and one quarter the cost of Medicare if only we had the will to do it.
-Airplane

[Honeycombe8]

49. You'd have to add...

that another of the problems is that it's NOT the best health care system. We don't live longer and are not healthier while we're alive. True, our lifestyle is a big part of it. Health care can't fix a lifetime of couch potato-ing and pizza eating. But our newborns under health care don't have a better mortality rate.

It's all based on pills, pills, and more pills. Now, pills are good. But they're not everything. How about some alternative medicine? The health care industry doesn't like that. It doesn't cost as much. But the countries that use it have healthier citizens.

[newfie11]

72. Exactly!!!!! nt

[abelenkpe]

58. +1000 nt

[eridani]

44. Only because we pay twice what civilized countries pay per capital for health care for ALL

There would be no deficit at all if our health care costs were in line with those of the rest of the developed world.

[Honeycombe8]

71. Well, our taxes would be higher, wouldn't they? If we had single payer.

So not sure how that would affect hte deficit. The money is still coming from somewhere.

[Bluenorthwest]

80. The other poster spoke of the absurdly high costs in the US compared to other nations

No one but you spoke of single payer or any other system of funding. The problem is not in the how, the problem is in the how much. Everyone knows the money comes from somewhere, so saying that is insulting, like saying water is wet or the sky is blue, adults know that we pay for everything, everything, everything. The point is gouging to enhance the profits of private corportations is wrong and in all of our peer nations to do so is a crime.
There are only a few actual single payer health care systems in the world, our own VA is one of them.

[Honeycombe8]

85. No need to be insulting. Maybe you're not up on this issue.

Part of the reason for the difference in cost is that other countries have single payer. When insurance gets involved, care providers raise their rates, because insurance pays a contracted, lower amount. That way, care providers increase the net they get for their services.

Hence, single payer is part of the equation, when speaking about cost. Always.

[RomneyLies]

50. I've been paying for both for more than 36 years

with another 18 to go before retirement.

Altering the age of either fucks me in no uncertain terms.

[Honeycombe8]

74. You've been getting a paycheck since age 10 or 11?

If you had a child's job, they didnt pay you in cash?

I will be grandfathered in, because I'm 58. I hope. Because I don't have time to make up the rules being changed. I'm hanging on until I can get Medicare.

Still, it's possible that eventually they'll get to changing the rules for those who are nearing 65, esp. the other kinds of changes.

And it's not fair to those coming after me, even if I get mine when it was promised. I have personally felt the fear of losing my job before reaching 65 and not being able to find another that provides insurance, and using my life savings buying insurance. I wouldn't wish others to go through that AND have to tack on another 2 years to that fear.

I have a semi-physical job. I'm the oldest person I know doing it. I look much younger.....I do NOT mention age, so hopefully I pass for younger. If I can't do certain things, which are physical and which the body may fail me on, I will lose my job. I have to be able to tote heavy boxes to and fro (I can use a dolly), carry redropes of heavy documents quickly to others, walk blocks quickly to and from courthouses and other locations (I'm a trial paralegal). It's not the same for me as it is for an executive.

It shouldn't be this way. I've been working since my teens. I've played by the rules.

[RomneyLies]

76. Math was wrong, paying for 35 years with another 17 to go.

First job with a paycheck that withheld SS and Medicare was at age 14.

[Honeycombe8]

78. Oh. I got paid in cash when I was that young.

Babysitting, then working at a stereo shop. I did get paychecks for a part time office job and a seasonal job at a burger joint.

[RomneyLies]

79. Worked for a chain department store. Jobs before that were detassling corn and a paper route n/t

[iandhr]

14. Isn't medicare part of the automatic cuts...

...if no deal is reached?

[TheProgressive]

19. No...SS and Medicare earned benefits are not part of the sequestration...

[CaliforniaPeggy]

17. Right there with ya!

[pnwmom]

18. Why aren't they your red line with the Rethug party? Which party would like to ELIMINATE both

and which party is trying to hang onto them?

If you desert the Dems, you're just helping to hand the reins over to the other side.

[Laurian]

20. I just sent an email objecting to this rumored deal

to raise Medicare eligibility to age 67. This makes my blood boil and I think the Administration needs to hear from us!

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

[RKP5637]

38. If they take SS to 75, that would solve a lot, and how about Medicare to 85. That's how this

stupid logic works. Rather than fixing the root cause, the symptoms are treated. I just get so F'en fed up with it all. The STUPIDITY in the US is just getting too great to fight.

[woo me with science]

52. Out in the US, SS and Medicare have strong support.

What you are hearing is meticulously designed stagecraft to try to convince you that you are outnumbered in public opinion.

The problem is corporate infiltration by the one percent, who have been allowed to purchase and infest our government, our electoral system. and our media.

[RKP5637]

56. The money and corporate infestation into the government has to be removed for the US to

survive into the future for "we the people." How that will come about I'm not sure, but if it does not this will eventually look like the best of times.

[nenagh]

45. I sent an email a few hours ago...

Said if the President allows raising the Medicare eligibility age, they should remove the Christmas decorations from the White House, because that decision will surely cause the death of Americans who cannot afford treatment.

He should lower Rx drug costs as a first step..

[Raine]

23. Absolutely I'm done with them! nt

[rocktivity]

25. If Medicare needs money, get rid of the age eligibility.

Last edited Fri Nov 24, 2023, 06:16 PM - Edit history (4)

If Social Security needs money, get rid of the salary cap.

If the U.S. treasury needs money, get rid of the permanent tax cuts.

Doing anything else is fiscally, politically, and morally irresponsible.

They are the right things to do -- and note that I did NOT say "right WING."

SO DO THEM.

Thank you and good night.


rocktivity

[sulphurdunn]

26. It wouldn't be the first time

the Democrats sold out their dirty fucking hippie and mostly over the hill base. They've been doing that since at least the '68 Chicago convention, before the "mostly over the hill" part.

[UTUSN]

28. Well, when I see a Red line AGAINST the Dem Party, it's over. n/t

[chuckstevens]

30. Here, Here or is it Hear, Hear?

Last edited Sat Dec 8, 2012, 09:24 AM - Edit history (1)

I total agree. If they fuck this thing up, (They've been vindicated with American people not wanting cuts programs that they've pay into over the year as reflected in the results of the November 6 elections) I give up! Don't give in to anything, STAY STRONG!

[BlueJazz]

32. It doesn't matter to anyone on DU..except myself but if the Dems mess...

...with cutting SS or medicare, I'll no longer be a dual citizen. It would be almost nice to renounce my citizenship with the USA.

[RKP5637]

41. You're lucky to have that option. My hunch is the US is eventually going to be some

type of dystopia. I don't see a rosy future for this country. Many of TPTB have abandoned "we the people." It's now the country of special interests and who has the most $$$$$. It's at the end of capitalism as it falls apart and who knows what will come next. Those with real wealth will do just fine. They will barricade themselves and many will most likely leave the US.

[Jackpine Radical]

34. Ya know how many times I've heard & said the same thing?

Here's an example, from tonight.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1944506

But when it comes down to it, when am I gonna quit voting for the lesser of two evils?

Always, it's "one more time because the situation is so desperate…"

[rurallib]

35. made that vow to myself awhile back

[Cleita]

36. I think it is with all of us.

Time to contact your Dem reps and senators to let them know.

[Downwinder]

37. More than political affiliation to me.

At this point they are a necessity of life.

[Curmudgeoness]

39. I feel the same way.

I absolutely will not support any party that will give on Medicare and Social Security. I was pissed enough that the Democrats were in control of Congress, if not the presidency, when the SS age was increased.....there is no negotiation on this any longer.

I am 59.....and you fuck with this, nothing matter to me anymore. I will have to just bend over on everything else.

[mike_c]

40. while I certainly agree in principle...

....it doesn't really matter because my red line was crossed years ago.

[davidn3600]

42. So...that means you will start voting for Republicans?

See, no one takes these threats seriously because they know you aren't going anywhere. You and everyone else will continue voting for the lesser of two evils no matter what deal they come up with.

The voters lost leverage in these type of discussions a long time ago.

[TheProgressive]

48. You are wrong on this and anyone else is wrong on this if...

they mess with SS or Medicare...

These are core principals. Forget republicans... If elected Democrats mess with SS or Medicare, that means
there is no longer a Democratic party...

[RomneyLies]

53. I will vote for neither Dems nor Republicans if the Medicare age is raised.

Never again.

Neither party.

If I wanted Republican bullshit WRT Medicare, I';d vote for Republicans. If I get Republican bullshit from Dems, then Dems and Republicans are now the same.

My red line. Affects me most at a personal level. They fuck with that, I am done with them forever.

End of discussion.

[eridani]

47. Don't quit--primary the SOBs! b/t

[AnotherMcIntosh]

57. Of course, that can't be done with Obama. Or Durbin. Or ...

Not a bad idea, though, for others.

[YOHABLO]

51. Increase on taxable wages for SS .. not just $113,700 for the rich ..

Millionaires and billionaires will only be paying taxes for social security on their first $113,700, as of 2013. The rest of us pay on our entire wages. If the rich were paying on their total income, there wouldn't be a problem. It is sooooo time for a national health care tax ... call it socialism, call it what ever you want, but we can't continue down this road. They shouldn't touch age eligibility .. leave it alone. These programs are life savers for so many in need. People really need to get up in arms if they cut these programs .. including medicaid. Maybe we should occupy the Washington Mall till they hear us loud and clear. Let's get out there with our voices people.

[still_one]

54. Me too, but not if they do something like raise the premiums for those who make more than a certain

Amount

But increasing the age of Medicare, they are finished in my book

[Flatulo]

59. This should be the definition of a Democrat.

The well-off have a party to represent their interests, and the rest of us need a party to represent ours, unconditionally.

[sabrina 1]

60. Definitely a red line for me, and from what I hear from most of the Dems I know

for them also.

Once they abandon the last programs they haven't already sold out on, they are not Democrats anymore.

[JEB]

61. Medicare for all

would bring a lot of healthy people and their money into the system. Talk about your economic stimulus. Business would have a lighter burden and individuals would mostly spend the extra money they didn't have to pay the private blood sucking insurance companies. If they want to cut something, try the lard ass Defense Dept. with all their corrupt contractors (war profiteers). Anybody who votes to shortchange old and sick people can FOAD.

[woo me with science]

62. You speak for many, many people.

A party can only claim to stand for certain values and principles, while persistently pursuing policies in direct opposition to them, for so long before the game falls apart.

Orwell created a perfect dystopia, in which Newspeak was for the most part thoroughly effective:

"The chocolate ration has been increased."

But history teaches us that it is actually much more difficult than that to convince people that serious assaults being perpetrated on them are not really happening.

[snot]

63. K&R'd!

[RagAss]

64. I will be so fucking gone from this party that I will forget how to pronounce it !!!

Don't fuck with my life !!!!

[AnotherMcIntosh]

65. If Social Security and Medicare are so important to the Democratic Party, why should we be the only

ones speaking up?

Why shouldn't each of the Democratic mayors, each of the Democratic councilmen, etc., be making their voices known as well?

The President and those Democrats in the Senate and the House do not act in a vacuum.

I'll never vote for a Republican ever. I'll also never vote for a Republican-wannabe.

But I'm going to let my local politicians know this. If I don't start hearing some support from the local politicians who call themselves Democrats, and if there is a betrayal at the national level, I'll vote for their challengers in the next primary. I'm not going to listen to any more excuses such as "That's a national issue."

[TheProgressive]

66. The burden of democracy has always begins with us, the people...

Our politicians only follow us - they never lead us....

[AnotherMcIntosh]

67. I'm not sure that Andrew Jackson ever said that.

[TheProgressive]

68. Where did I say he did?

[AnotherMcIntosh]

70. You obviously didn't. You also obviously said something contrary to his demonstrated leadership:

"Our politicians only follow us - they never lead us.... "

[liberal_at_heart]

69. my single issue is education

My vote will be based on who has the better case for education. So far that is nobody. Charter schools and status quo funding are no longer good enough.

[union_maid]

73. I lost my last red line with Clinton

Mine was the death penalty. Rembember when that was controversial. I always said I'd never vote for anyone who supported that. Then, one day, there were no more viable candidates who did not. I still vote Democratic. It's a binary electoral system and which party is in and which is out matters, even when it doesn't matter enough.

[jsr]

75. Leaked deal memo for last year’s Grand Bargain: “Obama willing to go quite far”

See http://americablog.com/2012/11/leaked-deal-memo-for-last-years-grand-bargain-obama-willing-to-go-quite-far.html

[edhopper]

81. YES

[Dawgs]

82. They already crossed it for me. I'm an Independant like Bernie.

I no longer call myself a Democrat, but I will support them as long as they don't fuck up Medicare and SS. As a matter of fact, I'm already pissed at them for not fighting to make it stronger.

[FarCenter]

83. Medicare will never be cut -- but the rate of growth might be reduced

These are all bogus future projections that they are talking about.

Who knows what medical services will cost in 5, 10, 15 years?

A really good flu epidemic could reduce costs considerably.

[rhett o rick]

84. And if you are done with them, then what? Who would you support? nm

[Le Taz Hot]

86. I reached mine in 2004

after what I witnessed they did (and continue to do) to Howard Dean. As they move further and further to the right and continue to compromise the middle class and poor by going along with elimination of the safety nets, I haven't regretted the decision.