How is loading pagers and walkie talkies with explosives and letting them be in the hands of

[Rustynaerduwell]

Last edited Thu Sep 19, 2024, 07:46 AM - Edit history (4)

people floating around a civilian population until they are simultaneously set off not terrorism?

Edit: I will correct the error that it was pagers and not cell phones. That changes everything.

I ask questions when I am ignorant of something, but I'll try again. How is loading pagers and walkie talkies (and now reports of possible cell phones) and setting them off simultaneously among a civilian population not terrorism?

I didn't know I could edit the headline.

[bullimiami]

1. The indiscrimination of it was proven out by the result.

Indistinguishable from “terrorism”.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

2. Who loaded cell phones with bombs and let them float around till they kill someone?

Because I haven't seen any reports about that.

[Srkdqltr]

33. That has been my question also. Im told Israel diverted them and loaded them and Hesbollah never noticed

That the shipment was delayed and tampered with. Israel is really good, I guess.

[tinrobot]

42. Those were pagers, not cellphones.

Who uses pagers these days?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

49. I would hazard a guess that Hizbollah won't anymore.

[soandso]

87. + 1

[sarisataka]

50. The world is not the US

it comes as a surprise when people find things are different in other countries compared to here.

[TheRickles]

52. They used pagers because they can't be monitored and surveilled and tracked like cellphones.

[womanofthehills]

77. Also read drs and nurses use pagers because cell phones can be spotty

A little 9 yr old girl who died, saw her dad’s phone beeping and decided to bring it to him.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

48. Mossad are very good at that sort of thing - and VERY patient

Look at how they got the Hamas leader in Tehran. They rigged the place months ago and just waited for him to be there.

[sarisataka]

3. That would be terrorism, has anyone done that?

Or are we applying alternative facts to an event?

[Dave Bowman]

4. +1

[JT45242]

5. I think the reference is to the pagers loaded with explosives that Israel sold to members of militant (terrorist) groups

I would like to know how Israel was certain that the pagers affected were only used by terrorists and not others.

Not sure who uses pagers anymore -- it seems the only people I know are all hospital staff

[LAS14]

10. No more certain they can be than that a bullet fired in combat only hits the enemy. nt

[ExciteBike66]

45. Actually this is more like an IED...

At least Israel knew who was buying the pagers, it's not like they were intended for a t mobile store or something...

[womanofthehills]

96. It's been reported Israel also tampered with car radios

Whole families targeted. According to Lebanon - retaliation will be happening.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

115. Reported by whom?

Can't seem to find anything about that, so please provide a link to your dubious claim.

[MineralMan]

12. Because they were obtained through specific channels by Hezbollah.

The shipments were temporarily diverted and the devices modified to explode. They were not distributed to non-combatants.

I don't like it in any case, but we really do need to get the story right.

[womanofthehills]

79. They were distributed 5 months ago -

So some got sold or given to other people.

[soandso]

88. You don't know that

I don't approve of what the Israelis did but these were bought for and by Hezbollah not for Radio Shack.

[womanofthehills]

97. Just reposting what's being reported

Lebanon already talking about retaliation.

[soandso]

102. Things are about to get much worse, I'm afraid

I also heard solar panels were exploding. That was on ABC or BBC and who knows that's accurate. Israel is now saying that if Hezbollah doesn't agree to a cease fire, Israel is "ready to go all the way". Dunno what that means but I guess total war. It's beyond fucked up.

[onenote]

92. I doubt that Hezbollah members were giving out pagers intended for Hezbollah communications

were being given any willy nilly.

[MineralMan]

120. Perhaps so. However, how would someone use a pager

if it were given to them? Makes no sense. The walkie-talkies, yes, but not the pagers.

[LauraInLA]

13. Hezbollah uses pagers because cell phones are more easily tracked. If this was a bulk order placed by

a Hezbollah operative, I’d think the targeting would be pretty direct.

[sarisataka]

18. They were not sold by Israel

Hezbollah purchased them directly.

Israel could be reasonably certain because they had infiltrated far enough to find out who Hezbollah purchased the pager from, that they were to be distributed to Hezbollah members and to intervene in the process to sabotage the pagers.

It's not like they hijacked a Best Buy truck, put explosives in every pager and hoped Hezbollah would buy them. It was a very specific, targeted operation.

[Srkdqltr]

24. But wouldn't Hezbollah have noticed that the package was diverted and tampered with?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

25. Apparently not.

I guess tracking orders isn't one of Hizbollah's strong suits.

[ExciteBike66]

47. Wonder if they will leave a one star review...

[MarineCombatEngineer]

51. LOL.

You now owe me a new keyboard, I just spit my coffee out laughing.
Your post would be classified as a DUzy.

[sarisataka]

30. If it was diverted, maybe

but easily explained by "shipping delays".

However, there would be no need to divert the shipment if they could track it all the way the manufacturing source (or make sure the pagers were manufactured in a factory they could access). It would be a simple matter then to sabotage the pagers as they were made. If the explosive was disguised as a component the factory workers would add it without being any the wiser.

[soandso]

89. Taiwanese company

is claiming they were made in Hungary by a company called BAC but BAC says not true and they have no mfg facilities.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/who-made-hezbollah-s-exploding-devices-questions-swirl-around-a-mysterious-supply-chain-stretching-from-taiwan-to-hungary/ar-AA1qLsYv

Maybe BAC are Mossad.

[soandso]

90. More on BAC

The Taiwanese firm whose branding was on the devices said on Wednesday that they were manufactured in Hungary.

Gold Apollo said “the design and manufacturing of the products are solely the responsibility” of Budapest-based BAC Consulting KFT, which was authorised to use its brand as part of a three-year-old licensing agreement.

However, Cristiana Bársony-Arcidiacono, the CEO of BAC Consulting, said “I do not make the pagers. I am just the intermediary. I think you got it wrong” when reached on the phone by NBC News.

He also claimed there had been problems with remittances from the firm. “The remittance was very strange,” he said, adding that payments had come through the Middle East but did not elaborate further.

https://web.archive.org/web/20240918123131/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/09/18/hungary-entrepreneur-denies-manufacturing-explosive-pagers/

[TheKentuckian]

104. You already answered your own question.

"I think the reference is to the pagers loaded with explosives that Israel sold to members of militant (terrorist) groups".

Seems about as targeted as you are going to get.

Phony hand wringers have been full of shit the whole way so just unleash hell if it is more effective and/or efficient and save the hassle and time because ANY AND ALL efforts to eliminate the terrorist generates the same bullshit and somehow being more discriminate just turns it up.

The bloody shirting of a terrorists kid that their own parent made a target and caused the whole home to be in a position that could have easily and legitimately be made a smoking hole in the ground with their own actions is fucking putrid.

[Richard D]

6. Oh yes. It is terrorism of the worst sort!

Because Israel did it.

Not a peep about the 19,000 bombs sent into Israel since Oct 7. Not a peep about northern Israel being uninhabitable because of the threat of rocket attacks from the north (Lebanon).

Now, was it really terrorism? No. It wasn't. Pagers were the main communication tool used by Hezbollah for their terrorist activities. They used pagers because they were afraid (with good reason) of cell phones being used for targeting. Now their major source of communication is essentially defuncted.

Not to mention that the male breeding population has been cut down,

[LAS14]

16. I agree that Israel is held to higher standards, but they're eroding...

Last edited Wed Sep 18, 2024, 02:05 PM - Edit history (1)

... their position on the moral high ground big time. Not by this ingenious attack on Hezbollah, but by their refusal to seek a compromise in Gaza and to work for a two state solution.

[CincyDem]

38. Takes two states to have a two state solution...that would Israel and who?

[LAS14]

55. That's part of what all interested parties need to work on.

Think of ingenious ways to de-escalate and strengthen the Palestinian Authority.

[Richard D]

44. Now just out of curiosity . . .

. . . do you think that Hamas is interested in a two state solution? What might (would) be the result of a two state solution with Hamas running things? Have they even once mentioned that they want a two state solution and that if that was in place they would seek peace with Israel?

And of course I assume you are aware of all the times in the past a two state solution was offered to "Palestine" and was refused? Why do you think it would be different now?

Are you aware of all of the compromises Israel was willing to make to get the hostages back? This, despite the common acceptance of negotiating with terrorists and kidnappers never has a good outcome?

[LAS14]

56. See my reply #55. nt

[MichMan]

113. Of course, Hamas is interested in a two state solution...

As long as neither one is Israel

[sarisataka]

46. I would say Israel is held to unique standards

I cannot recall anyone asking if Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis or Iran (that was a redundant list, wasn't it) consider collateral damage when they attack Israel.

[LAS14]

57. I totally agree. nt

[brush]

82. Another way to expand the war. Some forces in Israel seem to not want it to end

[onenote]

93. Do you think Hezbollah is an innocent party?

Hezbollah fires rockets -- indiscriminately -- into populated areas of Israel. But I guess that's not an "expansion" of the war in your thinking.

[brush]

94. Maybe if the IDF/Likud/Netanyahu hadn't obliterated Gaza and continued/continues to violently steal land in the...

West Bank, a ceasefire, hostage release and substantive two-state negotiations could actual begin. IMO it's worth a try. I mean 40,000 Palestinians killed v 1200 Israelis maybe has some weigh in on Hezbollah's thinking/shelling. I'm no expert, just hoping for an end to hostilities.

Now it's seems to be about prolonging the war. Bibi certainly doesn't want it to end because then his corrupt ass witll be tried in Israel.

[Cha]

101. Most Definitely IF Hamas hadn't snuck into Israel

And Sadistically Butchered Innocent Israelis at a Peaceful Music Festival.. None of this GD Shit would be Happening.

Fuck the POS Terrorists Hamas Hizballah, & Fucking IRAN. ... they started this Shit knowing what would happen.

Why aren't there any Bomb Shelters for Palestinians in Gaza?! Fucking GD Hamas.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

117. Maybe if HAMAs hadn't invaded Israel and inflicted horrors on Israeli citizens and others,

we wouldn't even be talking about this?

You think maybe that's true?

[brush]

118. See post 114. Maybe netanyahu should've reenforced the border when warned...

Last edited Thu Sep 19, 2024, 09:50 AM - Edit history (1)

by Egypt and other sources that a big attack was being planned.

He did nothing.

[Cha]

99. Thank you for your informative post, Richard D.

[MineralMan]

7. Pagers and Walkie-Talkies. Not Cell Phones.

There is a difference. The pagers and 2-way radios were ordered specifically for distribution to Hezbollah fighters. By Hezbollah. The Israelis got into the supply chain and diverted those specific devices and modified them.

I think it's wrong, but they're not like cell phones, that are for widespread distribution in the general population. They were only given to Hezbollah fighters. Why? Because Israel was tracking the location of their cell phones and using that to attack them.

All of this is not a secret. Nobody has said that cell phones were involved. Nobody.

[LauraInLA]

8. This is more targeted than drone strikes, which was touted as the most discriminating form of warfare.

If the Obama administration could have used this against Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban, I’m guessing they would have taken the opportunity.

[Johnny2X2X]

9. People have strong opinions on this

On one hand, they armed these devices just before they were to be sold to Hezbollah. On the other hand, they knew there would be collateral damage.

On the one hand, f*ck Hezbollah, on the other hand, a lot of civilians were harmed.

I just don't think this form of warfare is something we want to see in this world, no matter who the targets are.

[Happy Hoosier]

15. I think this post is on target.

I think Hezbollah is a legit target. I think the Israelis are too cavlier about collateral damage.

[LauraInLA]

19. As I said above, it is more discriminating than drone strikes, which were originally intended to avoid as many

civilian casualties as possible. In a broader context, I wonder about the ethics of increasingly pinpointed warfare — if Hamas could be targeted individually rather than by a site location, would that result in fewer civilian casualties?

[onenote]

63. "a lot of civilians were harmed" -- do you have a specific link?

[B.See]

84. Agree with Johnny2x on this. Regardless

of one's position, rationalization, defence or condemnation of this I would think many would agree this is a dangerous escalation that may have yet to be determined consequences, if today's UN resolution re Palestine is to be taken as any indication.

I find myself wondering what's next?

[Happy Hoosier]

11. Terrorism generally targets civilians.

I have mixed feelings about these operations. I think Hezbollah members are legit targets. And collateral damage is a fact of war. So is it terrorism? Not in my book, but I think the debate should be about whether due consideration for protecting civilians was considered.

[sarisataka]

22. There are videos available showing the pagers exploding

they show people standing within 1 ft of the person who has the pager when it explodes. The bystanders are not injured.

That does not mean there was no collateral damage however it does appear consideration was given to how much explosive was needed to injure the Hezbollah members without harming nearby civilians.

[Elessar Zappa]

14. It was targeted towards members of Hezbollah.

That’s not terrorism.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

17. Nobody loaded cell phones with explosives and let them float around.

It was pagers and 2 way radios used exclusively by Hizbollah.
Stop posting false information.

[Coventina]

20. BEEPERS were purchased by Hezbollah and given to Hezbollah members.

They were not "floating around."

[Nanjeanne]

21. Yes they were used by terrorists who happened to be standing in streets, markets, hospitals, etc.

So basically it would be if terror cells in the US were sold explosive pagers by Israel and then people in apartment buildings, subways, airports, hospitals, streets were unfortunate to be there when the pagers were detonated.

No biggie I’m sure. The US wouldn’t consider it terrorism, right? Just unfortunate because after all innocents die and are maimed but a bad guy died too.

[WDLAL]

109. I wouldn't consider this type of attack in the US to be terrorism if our government was allowing rockets to be launched

regularly from the US into Canada. I would expect this and worse.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

23. Tell me how posting false information is acceptable?

[onenote]

64. When it comes to Israel, it seems not only to be acceptable for some DUers, but automatic.

[tenderfoot]

26. tHEy sTaRTed iT!

That makes it okay to snuff innocents. Come now, what's a little collateral damage?

[sarisataka]

36. Wasn't that the excuse for October 7?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

37. I'll tell ya,

some of the comments here and on other threads on this subject are just mind blowing by the complete lack of knowledge of warfare, false info, righteousness, etc.

[tenderfoot]

59. Wasn't that the day Benjamin Netanyahu let Hamas attack Israel

eom

[LexVegas]

27. Hezbollah has a hell of a propaganda machine. nt

[MarineCombatEngineer]

29. Yes they do, and the gullible just keep falling for it.

[tritsofme]

31. You mistake the gullible for the complicit.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

35. You're right, my bad.

[JCMach1]

28. Microtargeting of terrorist organizations is actually

Pretty smart.

So micro you are mainly getting all leadership hierarchy.

Beats bombing neighborhoods, or invading South Lebanon.

[former9thward]

32. No one did what you posted.

But Hezbollah did fire missiles into Israel at civilians which is terrorism.

[Oopsie Daisy]

34. False information. (Zero stars.) 🔲

[Freethinker65]

39. My guess is there is/was a mole in the terrorist group that helped.

This is how Israel found out about the purchase order, which members the pagers were to be given to, the distribution of the pagers to the members, and a specific time/date when the pagers would most likely be answered by those members.

This was not indiscriminate. It was extremely targeted.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

43. And extremely brilliant,

not only does it sew chaos throughout Hizbollah and severely degrades their C&C, but now they'll tear themselves apart with paranoia and hunting for the mole among them.

[Xavier Breath]

40. Rec.

[eShirl]

41. tell me what really happened

[Rustynaerduwell]

69. Please, tell me. I'm sincerely asking the question.

No matter who started it, it bothers me that the numbers killed is so lopsided. 41,000 killed on one side compared to less than 1,500 (only 330 after the October attack) on the other. I am truly ignorant of much of what has happened there, but these numbers give me pause and make me question why.

[TheKentuckian]

105. Have the attacks stopped? Have the hostages been freed?

Have the terrorists surrendered?

My flow chart says there is no space to pause.

No government with even the most basic responsibility to its people is playing tit for tat, the mission is to quell the threat.

They have been too restrained fearing for the hostages when in cold reality they should have been chalked as murdered by definition of their captivity and gone in hammer and tongs until the threat was neutralized.

[OldBaldy1701E]

53. I would remind everyone that we are only a few laws and regulations away...

From the major tech companies from installing something similar in their stuff to ensure that either you pay up, or you ain't got shit.

And, I feel for whomever thinks something like that would never happen here. Homes and vehicles are already bugged via OnStar, Alexa, and the like. There is now a major debate on installing kill switches in cars so that they can remotely turn your car off for... reasons. Wanna bet how much it will cost to get it back on, even if they were mistaken about the reason? Then they will do this to all electronic locks and so on.

[BannonsLiver]

54. It's not terrorism.

Hope that helps clear it up for you.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

58. You said you were going to correct the error,

yet you haven't done so.

[MineralMan]

61. Yes. I noticed that, too.

I'm not expecting an actual edit, though. That would be uncharacteristic.

[Jirel]

60. Amazing.

Utterly amazing that so many people here want to duck the question by deflecting to a misstatement on the type of device that blew up.

It is terrorism, full stop. Can you imagine the response if it happened here, not Lebanon? Not one person would claim it wasn’t terrorism. The government response would be nearly immediate, and brutal. It wouldn’t matter who did it or why, or who got blown up. People need to come to grips with the idea that this was a terror attack on foreign soil, and Lebanon is right to call it an attack on its sovereignty.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

62. What's amazing is that you left this part out, intentionally I suspect,

that the US isn't getting bombarded by missiles by a hostile force, unlike what Hizbollah is doing to Israel, so if electronic devices started exploding in the US, then yes, that would be a terrorist attack.
Israel targeted Hizbollah's C&C system with the intent to degrade their ability to wage war, which is a perfectly legitimate target, and they tried to limit the collateral damage to the civilian population unlike Hizbollah.

[TheKentuckian]

65. Why do you think we would be using terrorist attacks against Israel that would

have them using targeted means to retaliate and eliminate such a threat?

You are spinning up complete nonsense to support terrorism.

[qwlauren35]

75. Not so sure.

If active members of the KKK or Proud Boys or other nationalist groups with a history of violence toward minorities were targeted, a lot of people in the US would be okay with it.

Remember, only terrorists were targeted. Not every day citizens.

[Skittles]

86. yup

it is utterly sickening what they are doing to each other and it never fucking ends

[BWdem4life]

66. So correct the error, why has it taken you hours? nt

[Rustynaerduwell]

71. Maybe I'm an idiot. Please, correct me.

I swear I'm not being facetious, but nobody has corrected me except to say they were pagers, not cell phones and, basically, Hamas started this, so all is fair. But that doesn't answer my question.

[BWdem4life]

91. Why does the subject line that everyone sees still say cell phones?

Can you not fix that?

[Rustynaerduwell]

112. I didn't know I could.

[Jacson6]

67. They used C4 Plastic explosives.

It is very stable, unlike dynamite and gun powder, until an electric charge is supplied. I'm not defending what happened, just trying to enlighten every one with the facts.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

68. So, here we are, 6 hours later, after you said that you would correct the false info,

and you still haven't corrected the false info, which leads one to believe that you had no intention of correcting the false info.

Hmm, who does that remind me of?

[malaise]

70. The new suicide bomber

What’s good for the goose…

[ecstatic]

72. It's unsettling BUT I prefer this

over 2,000 pound bombs lobbed indiscriminately on innocent civilians in Gaza (assuming the IDF did their homework first and they were sure that the pagers would only be used by hezbollah).

What many people have been demanding all along was for Israel to use their intelligence capabilities to carry out their mission in a more sophisticated manner--to stop with the indiscriminate killing, and to fight the actual planners / perpetrators of the various attacks.

So even though my first reaction to the "pager" attack was one of disgust, if it's true that most (preferably all) of the injured were active hezbollah fighters then I can accept that carnage as part of the ugliness of war.

[sarisataka]

83. You have struck the essence of the "suggestions"

People complain 'Israel is evil because there are doing x, they should do y'

But when Israel does y it becomes 'look how evil Israel is, doing yis a crime!'

If Israel Responds to an attack with airstrikes, they are "indiscriminately targeting civilians".
If they send in ground forces it is "forcibly displacing the population to seize the land"
If they attack terrorist leaders it is "a provocation and escalation".
If they attack rank and file terrorists it is "terrorism".

'Taking it' is the only acceptable reply.

[BlueSpot]

73. What is this "floating around" of which you speak?

The devices were bought by Hezbollah and distributed to Hezbollah members. They didn't "float" anywhere.

And it doesn't bother me a bit if terrorists are terrorized. Maybe they might think about just what they are doing. Learn some damn empathy or something.

[Rustynaerduwell]

74. I should have said "Letting them be in the hands of people floating around a civilian population until

being set off simultaneously" But that doesn't change the essence of my question.

[BlueSpot]

76. It certainly does

They were not floating around a civilian population unless a terrorist took them there.

Terrorist takes a bomb into a market or a cafe or whatever. Bomb blows up. Who is to blame?

I'd say that's on the terrorist.

[TheKentuckian]

106. They don't report to a secured base or pop off to the wilderness for retreats

I honestly have no clue what you are driving at that makes a lick of sense.

They were in the hands of Hezbollah the whole idea is to blow them off and rightfully so.

This is about as targeted as can be.

[ForgedCrank]

78. Because

that isn't what happened at all.

"Tell me how loading cell phones with bombs and letting them float around 'til they kill someone is not terrorism"

[brush]

80. It's terrorism. Plain and simple, as is the violent theft of land in the West Bank...

that has been going on for decades. There's no denying that some forces in Israel have become/have been terrorists.

[TheKentuckian]

107. The poor, poor put upon "freedom fighters" don't even know what equipment to trust anymore!

TERRORISM!!!



Pitifully gross.

[jimfields33]

110. This happened in a totally different country!

Lebanon Hezbollah jerks were bombing Israel with hundreds of bombs. Israel took some pagers going to the terrorists and put explosives in them to kill terrorists. Definitely not Israel’s fault. They are protecting their country from enemy combatants.

[brush]

114. Protecting their country, huh? Nearly a year later it's still not explained why...

Last edited Fri Sep 20, 2024, 05:32 PM - Edit history (4)

Netanyahu, who for years backed Hamas getting funded (apparently he thought he could always control them), it's still not explained why Netanyahu, after being warned for months by Egypt and other sources that a big attack was brewing, it's still unexplained why the border was not reenforced, and why it took hours and hours for Netanyahu to deploy the IDF to fend off the attackers. WHY DID IT TAKE SO LONG?

Somebody's got blood on their hands. And notice, I did not say Israel has blood on it's hands. A certain individual did not do their due diligence to protect Israel...his alleged strong point.

Again the hours and hours delay in deploying the IDF is still unexplained.

[NoRethugFriends]

81. way to make up crap

[Skittles]

85. of course it is terrorism

everything these folk do to each other is terrorism but it's all called REVENGE now......they don't care about ANYTHING else and it just keeps going ON AND ON AND ON

[AntiFascist]

95. Netanyahu must really need to start a war with Iran...

just be glad if you don't live in Israel at this point in time.

[Mountainguy]

98. Terrorism or not

I hope they do it again.

They can put bombs in Hezbollah's Cheerios for all I care.

[Iggo]

100. I can't. Because it absolutely is. (n/t)

[betsuni]

103. What floating around 'til they kill someone?

Conspiracy theory.

[Oopsie Daisy]

108. LOL... that's not a correction. It's just a small footnote. Why wasn't the subject/title corrected?

It's still spreading FALSE INFORMATION.

[Rustynaerduwell]

111. I didn't know I could change the headline.

[Oopsie Daisy]

119. Yep... that's a nice feature, isn't it?

👍️

[melm00se]

116. There have been rumors

that the USA has taken similar actions.

Tweaking printers, computers and networking devices to act has homers to attract smart bombs.

Similar accusations made against China to embedded special coding in operating systems to make it easier to track and suppress traffic they don't agree with.

Other nations have strict rules on how and where final assembly can take place to prevent this exact situation.