Just curious: What keeps conservatives/former republicans like Nicole Wallace, Tim Miller, Liz Cheney...

[brush]

Michael Steele, Adam Kinzinger, Morning Joe and others from coming over to the Democratic side of the ledger?

They have to know Democrats always and historically nave had to come to the rescue of the nation, like the cavalry in western movies, after republican admins have screwed up the nation/economy: i.e. like Joe has done after trump's horrendously bad admin; like Pres. O did after W Bush's disastrous financial crisis; and LBJ's Great Society made so many things positive happen as he tacked into what JFK had begun; of course we have to go all the way back to FDR's New Deal policies which pulled the nation out of the Great Depression; and there were republican calamities before that I don't recall that far back from history books.

What do conservative actually stand for besides allegedly smaller government and fewer taxes when they never do that 'fewer taxes' thing for anyone but their rich sponsors, as they have to know/see from rubbing shoulders with and apparently liking the company of us left-of-center and even further left Dems and our aforementioned policy accomplishments, quite often frequenting talk shows, political and other environs with us?

What do they stand for? And what have republican admins accomplished that has really helped besides filling out the right side of the aisle and being the so-called loyal opposition?

What keeps them on the dark side?

[hlthe2b]

1. It might be an advantage in booking R and Indie guests...?

[Jmb 4 Harris-Walz]

6. Invite them where?

[hlthe2b]

10. To appear on their show. All but Cheney and Kinzinger have shows or podcasts.

[Jmb 4 Harris-Walz]

2. Political positions of the Republican Party (United States)

Great question… since we’re a democratic group figured the best thing to do was check it out on Wikipedia. Some interesting facts.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_the_Republican_Party_(United_States)#:~:text=The%20positions%20of%20the%20Republican,and%20restrictions%20on%20labor%20unions.

The platform of the Republican Party of the United States has historically since 1912 been based on American conservatism,[1][2][3] contrasting with the modern liberalism of the Democratic Party. The positions of the Republican Party have evolved over time. Currently, the party's fiscal conservatism includes support for lower taxes, gun rights, government conservatism,[4] free market capitalism, free trade,[5] deregulation of corporations, and restrictions on labor unions. The party's social conservatism includes support for gun rights outlined in the Second Amendment, the death penalty, and other traditional values, often with a Christian foundation, including restrictions on abortion.[6] In foreign policy, Republicans usually favor increased military spending, strong national defense, and unilateral action. Other Republican positions include opposition to illegal immigration, drug legalization, pornography and affirmative action,[7] as well as support for school choice, and school prayer.

Economic issues

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_the_Republican_Party_(United_States)#:~:text=The%20positions%20of%20the%20Republican,and%20restrictions%20on%20labor%20unions.

Edit: My long hyperlink isn’t working… sorry for that, but I’m sure most everyone who wants to check it out can find it easily.

[brush]

14. All well and good. No real signature accomplishments to hand their hat on...

besides the Second Amendment, lower taxes for the rich, and of course trump snatching away abortion rights.

[Lunabell]

3. They are conservatives and strongly believe in conservatism.

They oppose our Democratic platform of programs that help the poor, the minorities or large government programs. They believe in small gocmvernment and many oppose abortion, but not an extreme all out ban.

But, they value democracy and America. They know that that magats would destroy democracy. So, they oppose the orange blobfather and that is it.

They oppose sleazy politicians like ted cruz who would sell his own children to gain power. That is why Cheney endorses Allred in Texas. She knows he has Texas' best interests at heart, even though she does not support his ideas.

[brush]

7. Ok, ok, but what have they notably accomplished like FDR's New Deal Policies...

LBJ's Great Society, Biden getting the nation vaccinated and massive infrastructure funding, the Chips act, much lower unemployment, environmental and gun laws passed and more.

Pres. O getting us through W's financial crisis, and getting the Affordable Care Act passed, not to mention no scandals and no arrests.

What have they left us?

Oh, wait. Ikr got the interstate highway system done, and sent troops to Little Rock to intergrate the schools. He did a lot...would be centrist Democrat today.

[Lunabell]

13. Hey, I'm a Democrat through and through.

I'm not defending their policy beliefs, just their ability to see beyond those beliefs to save democracy. Integrity is paramount to party.

[brush]

16. I know you're a fellow Dem, I'm just curious as to what they've left us...

since Lincoln, Grant and Sherman won the Civil War?

There's not much for the to hang their hat on except favoring the Second Amendment and snatching away abortion (not good).

[SheltieLover]

29. Rethugs ALWAYS leave a mess for Dem admins to clean up. And thugs actually accomplish something?

For the good of the citizens? Never, because that is not their agenda.

I firmly believe their ONLY agenda is to spread hate through their divisive teevee appearances, tax the hell out of the poor working people, and -- first and foremost -- belly up to the rich Fed feeding trough to line their own pockets.

They have NO vision for America -- at least not one that is good for ALL the people.

JMO.

[brush]

32. We think a lot alike. Thanks, SL.

They've left little of note since Lincoln,, Grant and Sherman won the Civil War.

Ike wasn't that bad, but he'd be a convervaDem today.

[SheltieLover]

34. Thx, Brush!

Oh, I know. I think Ike was the last of the semi-decent rethugs.

And many southerners still consider the Confederates "heroes."

[megapuzzler]

35. Eisenhower was the last great Republican president, IMO

He made sure the holocaust atrocities were fully documented so they couldn't be swept under the rug
He got us out of the Korean war by simply declaring it was unwinnable and leaving -- no one could call him a coward because of his war record so he could do that.
He sent federal troops to the South to help enforce the new desegregation school laws.
He worked behind the scenes to undermine and get rid of Joseph McCarthy.
He implemented the US interstate highway system

If he was alive now, he'd be considered a democrat -- that's how far right our country has swung since the 50's

[appmanga]

37. Both parties actively recruited Eisenhower...

...and the Republicans won out. That was back when nearly no one knew the political persuasion of most flag officers.

[brush]

38. Agreed. Ike accomplished a lot...civil rights in Little Rock...

with troops, the interstate highway system, getting us out of the Korean War, documenting the Holocaust...he'd be a centrist Democrat today.

[RichardRay]

36. A central difference...

Remember that one things that distinguish across from Republicans is the belief that government can do any good. At the very root of Trumpism there are things that the Cheney’s can’t accept. They believe that a Democratic win keeps the nation alive so that they have something win back down the road.

[Rebl2]

4. I thought

Nicole was a democrat now.

[brush]

11. I hope so. I'm still trying to figure out what Republicans have left us...

Since Lincoln, Grant and Sherman fought and won the Civil War?

No New Deal programs, nor Great Society ones, not saving the nation from W's Great Recession like Pres O. did, no getting the nation vaccinated and massive infrastructure funding like Joe Biden has done.

What have they left us since Lincoln?

Seriously, I want to know.

[Cirsium]

15. 1964 Civil Rights Act

In the House, "the bill received 152 'yea' votes from Democrats, or 60 percent of their party, and 138 votes from Republicans, or 78 percent of their party."

"After some changes were made to the bill and the filibuster ended, it passed the Senate with a 73-27 vote. About 82 percent of Republicans in the Senate voted for the bill, as did 69 percent of Democrats. The amended Senate bill was then sent back to the House where it passed with 76 percent support from Republicans and 60 percent support from Democrats."

Prior to this, Congress had passed the Civil Rights Act of 1957, the first major civil rights legislation to be enacted in decades, that sought to protect the voting rights of black Americans. The bill passed the House in a 286-126 vote. Only 51 percent of Democrats voted in favor of the bill, or 119 of their 235 members, compared to 84 percent of Republicans, or 167 of their 199 members.

The bill was then brought to the Senate where Thurmond, an ardent foe of integration, filibustered the vote for a total of 24 hours and 18 minutes in protest – the longest individual filibuster in history. Thurmond once said in a speech that “there’s not enough troops in the army to force the southern people to break down segregation and admit the Negro race into our theaters, into our swimming pools, into our homes and into our churches.”

After the filibuster ended and a number of changes had been made, the bill passed in a 72-18 vote. The bill received 43 of 46 Republican votes, or 93 percent, and 29 of 49 Democratic votes, or 59 percent. The Senate version was sent back to the House, where it was approved after amendment in a 279-97 vote (75 percent of Republicans voting in favor and 55 percent of Democrats). The Senate agreed to the amendment, with support from 80 percent of Republicans and 46 percent of Democrats. Republican President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed the bill into law on Sept. 9, 1957.

https://checkyourfact.com/2018/12/16/fact-check-percent-republicans-vote-civil-rights-act/

[brush]

19. The Civil Rights acts of the mid-60s are huge LBJ and MLK ji and other civil rights leaders accomplishments.

All Democrats.

[Cirsium]

24. Sure

But not the "Dixiecrats."

[brush]

39. Right. They became republicans, and there they remain...most probably maga ts now.

[TommyT139]

5. If they believe

If they believe that they are correct, why should they concede not only the political party, but the definition of conservative values to traitors? Because that's what leaving would do.

For Liz Cheney to say that a new party might need to be formed is, in a way, more drastic a statement than her calling out Trump. It says she doesn't think the Republican party is salvageable.

[Jmb 4 Harris-Walz]

8. Liz Cheney Suggests a New Political Party May Be Needed

“Whether it’s organizing a new party — look, it’s hard for me to see how the Republican Party, given what it has done, can make the argument convincingly or credibly that people ought to vote for Republican candidates until it really recognizes what it’s done,” Ms. Cheney said at the Cap Times Idea Fest in Madison, Wis

.

[brush]

9. I agree with her on that. But what have they left that helps people?

[Cirsium]

17. Depends on which people

Wealthy people? They help them in many ways.

[brush]

20. That's correct. They've helped their rich sponsors quite a bit.

Not much for the 99% though.

[Cirsium]

25. Correct

Absolutely.

[WarGamer]

12. The noecon-ification of the Democratic Party... wonderful.

[brush]

21. Absolutely. Good one.

[Cirsium]

18. The bigger question

What are we constantly hearing from those Republicans on so-called "liberal media?"

[duncang]

22. Not sure

But didn’t Steele say he was a democrat now and that the Republican Party left him?

[brush]

23. I haven't heard. It seems logical though as he rails against trump as much as Dems do.

Last edited Tue Sep 24, 2024, 02:34 AM - Edit history (1)

[allegorical oracle]

26. Saint Ronnie -- the first "star" they'd had since Gen. Dwight Eisenhower,

the heroic WWII figure.

During the 60s, the stars were Kennedys and ML King, and were martyred. Nixon and Watergate, followed by Ford, were embarrassments in the 70s. Carter was truly smart and decent, but constantly ridiculed when Iran captured the U.S. Embassy and held it hostage.

Voila. Saint Ronny emerged and created a new brand of conservatism for that generation of folks you named (altho' Kinzinger is a bit younger).

[Irish_Dem]

27. They don't like Trump, but they don't agree with Dem values, ideology.

[bucolic_frolic]

28. Conservatives stand for running the country for their own financial benefit

while telling the public it's all for their own good. i doubt they will give up that game anytime soon - ever.

There are owners and there are workers. The two don't mix well.

[nycbos]

30. The hope that there will be a rational conservative movement that emerges from the ashes of Donald Trump.

I think for democracy to properly function you need to have a rational opposition people you disagree with and 90% of the issues, but are still respectful of our nation and its institutions.

[PJMcK]

31. It's quite plain, I think

They abhor Trump, Trumpism and MAGA. They believe in the rule of law, the supremacy of the Constitution and they support our democratic republic. Trump’s ownership of the so-called Republican Party doesn’t reflect any of the conservative values or policies of the traditional Republican perspective. His movement is an aberration of the governance they believe in.

N.B., In no way do I excuse or endorse any of these anti-Republicans! As a lifelong Democrat, I have plenty of contempt for most of them.

We Democrats should accept their support for the 2024 election unequivocally. However, those never-Trumpers will not morph into liberal Democrats, obviously. Like the Soviet Union was our at-arms’-length ally in the last stretch of WWII, Liz Cheney will still be a hard-core Conservative if we collectively defeat Trump. I don’t expect any of them to support VP Harris’ policies once she is officially inaugurated. It won’t matter if Trump wins. The American experiment will be over.

That’s why they’re backing VP Harris, in my opinion.

Strange bedfellows, indeed!

[LakeArenal]

33. Possibly to pick up the pieces of the GOP and rise again from the ashes.

They including some Democrats, think we need the two party system.

But I only guess. I have never had a Republican thought in my own life.