General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThere goes more Florida home insurance.
Pretty soon only the homeless will be able to live in Florida.
I just saw some figures showing that in 2022 175,000 people moved out if the state. And it was mostly due to insurance rates.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
bucolic_frolic
(55,140 posts)If you can't insure your lifestyle, you can't protect it. There is no reason to stay.
If there are liberal east and west coast elites, Florida will be the opposite.
MineralMan
(151,269 posts)She has a sister who lives in Cape Coral, FL. They almost lost their house in the last big hurricane. They're seriously talking about moving.
No insurance? How could you live that way there?
leftyladyfrommo
(20,005 posts)just going to get worse. Florida may turn back into a saltwater swamp.
dalton99a
(94,122 posts)They came for Florida's sun and sand. They got soaring costs and a culture war.
Florida has seen a population boom in recent years, but many longtime residents and recent transplants say rising costs and divisive politics have them fleeing the Sunshine State.
March 31, 2024, 6:00 AM CDT
By Shannon Pettypiece
One of the first signs Barb Carter’s move to Florida wasn’t the postcard life she’d envisioned was the armadillo infestation in her home that caused $9,000 in damages. Then came a hurricane, ever present feuding over politics, and an inability to find a doctor to remove a tumor from her liver.
After a year in the Sunshine State, Carter packed her car with whatever belongings she could fit and headed back to her home state of Kansas — selling her Florida home at a $40,000 loss and leaving behind the children and grandchildren she’d moved to be closer to.
“So many people ask, ‘Why would you move back to Kansas?’ I tell them all the same thing — you’ve got to take your vacation goggles off,” Carter said. “For me, it was very falsely promoted. Once living there, I thought, you know, this isn’t all you guys have cracked this up to be, at all.”
Florida has had a population boom over the past several years, with more than 700,000 people moving there in 2022, and it was the second-fastest-growing state as of July 2023, according to Census Bureau data. While there are some indications that migration to the state has slowed from its pandemic highs, only Texas saw more one-way U-Haul moves into the state than Florida last year. Mortgage application data indicated there were nearly two homebuyers moving to Florida in 2023 for every one leaving, according to data analytics firm CoreLogic.
But while hundreds of thousands of new residents have flocked to the state on the promise of beautiful weather, no income tax and lower costs, nearly 500,000 left in 2022, according to the most recent census data. Contributing to their move was a perfect storm of soaring insurance costs, a hostile political environment, worsening traffic and extreme weather, according to interviews with more than a dozen recent transplants and longtime residents who left the state in the past two years.
...
snowybirdie
(6,687 posts)is for everyone. Horror stories can be told about everywhere. Do you want to hear my story about being stuck in a broken car in a snowstorm with freezing temperatures on a small little traveled road Thought not. I moved. The smart thong to do. Lots of Florida hating here at DU today. Feel superior, we Floridians like it here
asm128
(245 posts)Jk23
(455 posts)I mean seriously if a federal government spend a lot more money on Sandy than they're going to spend in Florida for this storm.
bottomofthehill
(9,390 posts)Even though it was a lot of damage in the most populous area of the country. The insurance costs are what they are in New York because sandy was a Historic event where hurricanes in Florida are an annual event.
bottomofthehill
(9,390 posts)From the article below
Of the 10 costliest storms in U.S. history, all but one have come in the past 20 years, further evidence of how climate change is causing more intense storms. The Top 10 storms hit Florida (5), Louisiana (3) and Texas (2), as well as Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, Puerto Rico, New Jersey and South Carolina. Several of them — hurricanes Katrina and Andrew, for example — hit more than one state.
https://www.nola.com/news/hurricane/10-most-expensive-hurricanes-in-us-history/article_1d65a750-91f0-11ed-abdf-c3d270be6a06.html
littlemissmartypants
(33,588 posts)I may be more sensitive than most, however, as a fully confirmed INFJ.* Along with the Florida bashing here (with the Florida man included), the North Carolina bashing gets old mighty fast.
Bad manners, it seems, are becoming less likely to be in short supply these days. I long for the good old days when the moral high ground more closely resembled the level playing field.
But I also miss seeing men wearing hats that aren't beanies and ball caps when they dress up for going into town. My theory is that when our self-respect deteriorates, so does our respect for our neighbors.
You deserve to enjoy your life in Florida. Don't let anyone steal your joy.
❤️
* Reference: Take the Test
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1237&pid=526
snowybirdie
(6,687 posts)Why put down peoples' choices when it means nothing? I love everyone on D U. We're aligned in our dislike of the orange menace.
Keepthesoulalive
(2,304 posts)Don’t say woke
Don’t say gay
Dismantle public education
A power hungry little hitler
No diversity
Teachers not valued
Abortion ban after 6 weeks
Charlie Christ may have been a weak candidate but he wasn’t an evil shit.
Florida has to own him and hopefully maybe vote someone in who can help Florida with it’s issues until then I will bash away.
littlemissmartypants
(33,588 posts)
I live in North Carolina. I'm very aware of how quickly life can devolve when corrupt politicians are involved.
But thanks for your reply. ❤️
Keepthesoulalive
(2,304 posts)It’s up to the people of the state to pay attention and do what needs to be done to get rid of corrupt politicians. He did not elect himself. A lot of people either are not paying attention or he speaks to and for them. It’s not personal ,it does not reflect on you, but it is a reflection on the majority of people who would allow this kind of behavior. Hate should have no place in our country but it does now have a place in Florida.
soandso
(1,631 posts)You should enjoy it. To hell with what other people say. While it's not for me because alligators 
Florida is a spectacularly beautiful place. It's like another world. My only criticism is the terrible over development. Every place has it's pros and cons and if you can live with the hurricane risks, go for it 
Polly Hennessey
(8,833 posts)
rockbluff botanist
(360 posts)Well, let me tell you what a crap pile my state has become.
My insurance and taxes are very much higher than my house payment. My mortgage is almost paid off. At that point, I have to make big decisions about having insurance. I'll certainly have to have property insurance for injury of anyone legally on my property. I'll also have fire. But, I will have to drop Hurricane insurance.
I know dozens of people on fixed incomes with large paid off homes that are in the same predicament. We have all had it. We can no longer subsidize all these people's dream of living on the f'n water. There will have be a revolution politically to fix this. We have documented campaign payments to what passes for legislators from insurance companies.
Living here is expensive. What you would pay for income tax is dwarfed by insurance and taxes. Everything costs more here now. How can these people move here without checking this out? Sand in their eyes, I
guess.
And, our once good school system is now at the bottom. I long for the days of the governors of my childhood and young adulthood.That was Lawton Chiles and Bob Graham. They are legend.
Republicans have destroyed us.
The Blue Flower
(6,490 posts)We had some excellent governors when I was growing up, long ago.
bullimiami
(14,075 posts)
FloridaBlues
(4,669 posts)With all the flooding in Fl I hate to think what’s ahead.
Jk23
(455 posts)I wish my mortgage was paid off so I could drop that part of the coverage as well.
Frank D. Lincoln
(894 posts)describe the various problems with living in Florida without becoming defensive.
I live in Arizona and could easily compile a list a mile long of all of the issues I have with living here, including that the summer temperatures are rapidly heading to 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit. 
Eventually they say we're going to run out of water. Home prices and rents are sky-high here but at least they're rapidly building more housing. This is home to that J6 nutcase QAnon Shaman (Jacob Chansley). We're also burdened with the presence of national laughingstock Kari Lake and other election-denying lunatics. Plus, there's a chance Trump will win Arizona, which would completely piss me off.
I guess it's true that no matter where you live it's going to have its issues.
CrispyQ
(40,969 posts)This is going to happen faster than people think.
Jk23
(455 posts)I mean the ocean is larger than just the water around Florida.
FullySupportDems
(448 posts)I imagine when the large coastal cities realize they will have to construct something very large to save the city from going under water, many cities and a LOT of money be competing for the same resources at the same time. I'm wondering if there's going to be enough to go around.
soandso
(1,631 posts)Here are some other earth changes maps from years past:
?format=jpg
https://starseedbobs.blogspot.com/2012/07/earth-changes-ever-changing-planet.html
https://thedisastercaster.blogspot.com/p/future-maps.html
Catastrophizing is as old as humankind. Meanwhile, humans will still keep moving to coastlines, earthquake zones, islands, next to volcanoes and on and on.
CrispyQ
(40,969 posts)Jk23
(455 posts)It's not saying climate change isn't real but when people first came to North America for example New York City was under a mile of ice we can deal with a lot of different options.
Some places will get better and some places will certainly get worse. Our bigger problem is simply too many people using too many resources climate change is the fever not the disease.
CrispyQ
(40,969 posts)
JoseBalow
(9,489 posts)brush
(61,033 posts)When was that? You couldn't be more wrong.
soandso
(1,631 posts)I'm saying humans are inclined to doom casting and others will still live where they want to, taking risks into account or not. Everyone in hurricane country knows the risks but still choose to live and move there because, for them, the benefits outweigh the risks.
Zambero
(9,990 posts)And a few other places in tornado alley. Corn and soybeans for as far as you can see and tornadoes. That's our future.
Fichefinder
(425 posts)Concrete block poured with concrete and anchored. They didn't move an inch.
With modern engineering we can build Hurricane resistant houses. We just choose profits instead.
modrepub
(4,109 posts)It's the water (storm surge). Building houses in low-lying areas near water is just asking for trouble. And the kicker is, your insurance may not pay for any water damage (that's often a separate insurance).
The real danger here is to the financial system. Home owners owe mortgages and banks hold mortgages. Hurricane's/storms/rising sea levels cause repeat damage raising insurance costs and straining people living on these properties. At some point, the property owner can't take the hits, tries to sell and property values plummet. If people start abandoning their damaged properties then the banks are holding the bag. And if the banking sector starts getting stressed then nobody is safe.
As I've said many times before, the argument over global warming/climate change pitted the fossil fuel industry against the insurance/financial sector. It was not what the media and fossil fuel companies portrayed it to be; a battle between industry and big over reaching government.
Jk23
(455 posts)This is all storm surge damage outside of a relatively small strip of relativly uninhabited land in the big bend.
Honestly if you were a mile or so Inland you were fine in most cases.
flvegan
(66,280 posts)But 738,969 moved into Florida.
Maybe your stats are that 175,000 moved out specifically because of insurance (which honestly wouldn't surprise me). Not sure of your source.
I'm not defending Florida by any means. If not for family living here, I'd likely be nolongerinflvegan.
csziggy
(34,189 posts)I went through Hurricane Donna in 1960 and decided that being in the middle of the state (I lived in Central Florida) was plenty close to a coast or water for me.
Fifty years ago I moved to Tallahassee and now live on a 200' above sea level ridge. I've been through a number of hurricanes and tropical storms here without serious damage to the old double wide mobile home I had for thirty years. 2007 when I finally built a house, I made sure it would stand through a storm. It's ICF (insulated concrete form) made of concrete, lots of rebar, with a metal roof. Can't get a cell signal in it, but it doesn't even creak when the wind blows hard.
Straight line, I'm nearly fifty miles from the coast - and only five miles from the Georgia border. That's plenty close to the coast for me!
rockbluff botanist
(360 posts)We at top of Liberty County at 295 ft elevation. I'm 9 miles from Georgia, as the crow flies.
I don't worry about flooding, but Michael took down an estimated 8 million trees in our area of the panhandle. Wind was a killer.
I grew up on our family ranch north of Okeechobee. We went through some bad hurricanes. Okeechobee county is still all ranches and dairies, pretty much as it was when I left for college in 1975. My family still ranches, over 100 years on that land. This is what it's like when families don't sell their land to ##### developers!
My daddy always said no one should live within 5 miles of a river or the ocean. More and more, he's proven to be a prophet.
csziggy
(34,189 posts)I grew up in Polk County. My Grandfather moved the family down in 1923 and was a phosphate mining engineer. His name is on the process by which phosphate is separated from the matrix. Unfortunately, Swift owns that patent. Dad was also a phosphate mining engineer, but he worked independently, mostly doing prospecting for phosphate. Between the two of them, they were very much responsible for the destruction of habitat in Central Florida.
As a contrast I put my 60 acres into a conservation easement a couple of years ago. Having watched the land around me being developed, I don't want it to happen to this piece - which is pretty unique for non-plantation owned land in Leon County. I have no children and my nieces and nephews don't live around here so there is no one in my family that would protect the land, so this was the best way to protect it.
brush
(61,033 posts)Kudos to you for knowing how to put it into action by getting away from the coast and building on high ground.
duncang
(3,767 posts)The places where you can’t raise up or put on stilts since you need public access. Stores maybe covered by insurance but what happens when they have to raise prices so high to cover insurance? Florida is screwed no matter what happens. The coast is the main attraction and the biggest liability.
Xolodno
(7,350 posts)If they lease the place, they will get a Contents, Business Interruption, etc. policy that excludes the building. However, they may still be paying it via the Lessor, but, if its a small strip mall of say five small shops, you are at least spreading that cost out with everyone else. Same thing with apartments and condo's.
MichMan
(17,151 posts)
kimbutgar
(27,248 posts)That said, I want that next hurricane event to hit mar a lago! I can dream can’t I ?
You couldn’t pay me to move to Florida.
DENVERPOPS
(13,003 posts)to scam the insurance company.....Probably over value it by a half trillion or so........not rebuild it, and sell the land for even more money.
soandso
(1,631 posts)a year after it was built. I assume it's well built but the landscape was probably torn up:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1928_Okeechobee_hurricane
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)
LilElf70
(1,569 posts)You and me. My rates have gone up radically over the past 5 years. They all blame it on hurricanes, floods, fires.
spooky3
(38,634 posts)the cost around.
DENVERPOPS
(13,003 posts)is paying much higher auto insurance and home owner insurance. The companies can't hit the hurricane area with the entire loss, or the people would all move out. So they spread their payouts over the entire nation...........
LilElf70
(1,569 posts)The problem here is that is becoming so expensive, people will stop paying their rates.
I see it this way. You pay for 1 month of insurance, the month your plates are due for a year. They setup a 6-12 month policy, and setup pay monthly. After the initial month, they cancel the policy. I'm sure it will catch up with them eventually, because these types of things are recorded. But in the mean time, imagine millions of people driving without insurance. Imagine getting plowed by one of these uninsured drivers. And again, who will pay? We will.
Unfortunately, I don't see a fix for this. Grrrrrrrrrr
MichMan
(17,151 posts)Xolodno
(7,350 posts)Also for Federal Flood insurance, if you cancel after the flood season ends, there are provisions that keep you out of the program for awhile.
Many states FAIR plans do allow for that however and they have wanted similar legislation passed, but the political will isn't there....yet.
Xolodno
(7,350 posts)In some states they even prohibit this. Most states will allow a CAT Load to a certain point as they know they benefit from it as well, but cull it there. This in turn forces private carriers not to overload their books with a high risk area and manage how much business they will take in. For example, State Farm decided it was going to dethrone Farmers as the number one insurer in California, they did. And now regret it with the wild fires, found out the hard way that Farmers had all the best risks and there was a reason they would not take on too much more. Now State Farm is shedding 75k policies in California, and given their rate increases and increased inspections, even more, they will eventually drop back to number two.
And lets drop the other shoe, smaller carriers are not in every state so they can't spread that risk around to other states. This goes for the jugular, Florida's Citizens Property Corporation (a FAIR plan) has over 90% of the Wind Peril market, other carriers only cover fire, liability, etc. They are only in Florida and have no way to spread the risk across other states, simply not possible. And if you are near water, you have to get the Federal Flood Insurance. That's three different policies.
There have been some proposals to create a sort of regional FAIR plan that encompasses all hurricane prone states and this would take the pressure off an individual state. But there is always some politician who then screams they are against it because Texas should not pay for Florida, so they get re-elected or elected for the first time.
spooky3
(38,634 posts)
orwell
(8,003 posts)...the "woke virus"...
So there's that... 
BeneteauBum
(487 posts)As the people who can’t afford the homeowners insurance relocate, investors are buying up the properties, tearing them down, and building grossly oversized structures they call home or investment property. I see this everywhere, especially where people who own storm impacted structures can’t afford repairs due to the cost of meeting new building codes…….and the insurance refuses to foot the cost.
Vote Kamala!
Peace ☮️
DENVERPOPS
(13,003 posts)don't the wealthy prefer Florida's lower tax rates, tax laws, and also laws on divorce being much better for the man than the woman.
Among many other things?
Why else would the UBER rich move down there?????????
All of those reasons plus a legislature that is extremely conservative unless there is an opportunity to profit…….like with outrageous insurance.
Peace ☮️
DENVERPOPS
(13,003 posts)Like Senator Scott,????? who bilked Medicare and Taxpayers out of over a Billion, and walked free, and they promoted him to Senator for his outstanding performance as a criminal.......
marybourg
(13,640 posts)
Zorro
(18,692 posts)But then I'm about 25 miles inland from the coast.
PortTack
(35,820 posts)
3Hotdogs
(15,368 posts)MichMan
(17,151 posts)The renter pays either way
3Hotdogs
(15,368 posts)How much is insurance? So ya got insurance, + property tax + repairs + mortgage (if any).
Rental, ya walk away if the house is damaged.
MichMan
(17,151 posts)Except.... I would guess that most renters aspire to own their homes.
Mortgage payments are a fixed amount every month and are eventually paid off while rents can continue to go up and up every year.
Homeowners can build a lot of equity over time as property values increase
Many locales give homeowners a reduced property tax "homestead" rate that isn't available to rental properties.
Homeowners are responsible for maintenance and repairs.
3Hotdogs
(15,368 posts)Insurance is now, $2,020 per year. Property tax is 18k per year and rising. My S.S. and state pension are not taxed.
The house is worth approximately $800k.
We are pretty much "storm safe" at 280ft above sea level.
Yes, it could burn down but insurance would replace it.
Florida --- who is gonna buy a lot with debris on it from collapsed houses or boats? How many people will rebuild on their lots?
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)This is not the first hurricane. Now Atlanta and western North Carolina may see panic and leaving property because they’ve never experienced it. But Floridians are resilient.
moondust
(21,286 posts)I would guess homeowners in "safe" states are likely paying higher rates to help subsidize insurance company losses in Florida and other disaster areas.
bucolic_frolic
(55,140 posts)My rates have risen about 20% and 10% the last 2 years and this at a time when my insured values falls due to age. I see the company insures in NC TN KY and VA. So yeah we're going to get smacked again next year.
LilElf70
(1,569 posts)of the insurance companies telling me "that's the way it is". I just went through a long drawn out affair with my insurance company to get my rates readjusted. I called 12 different agencies over a month long period, and went with the cheapest. Some companies were charging twice my current rate, which is ridiculous. Are people really paying double last years rates? I'm guessing yes.
Me and my wife are squeaky clean as far as our driving habits. We went thru car monitoring. Passed with flying colors. No accidents or tickets in the past 10 years. Now imagine the seniors getting hit with these large increases with no additional income to make up for it. Something has to give.
I realize that everyone is out to make a buck. But where is all this extra money going? I'm guessing profits. Some one needs to investigate what the hell is going on. I think they will find excessive sponging off the American people. It has to stop!!!!
bucolic_frolic
(55,140 posts)There are new customer teaser rates. Then after a year or two they start to rise. I pay about 3/4 of the rate I was paying in 2009 with a major visible national insurance company.
We are being squeezed as insurers wake up to their risk. Climate change has consequences. Maintenance is doubling too.
Insurance rates feeds the repair business, the ambulance chasers too. We pay for that. In my state we have full tort auto and limited tort of some kind. But home insurance is going up. If they build new housing will people be able to insure them?
A recent study concluded it's now cheaper to rent than to own. And yes we feed profits. The larger the corporation the more committed to ever rising profits. That is job one of the CEO. If business falter, raise rates. This is called target return pricing in the economics world. We are slaves to corporate profits. Unless we go frugal and what type of life is that?
Jk23
(455 posts)I'm going to be a lot higher than they are in Florida from this storm particularly since Florida had very little wind damage and it was mostly storm surge.
MichMan
(17,151 posts)With Health Insurance, healthy people pay for care for sick people. People without fires pay for fire insurance that subsidizes those who have houses burn down. People with car insurance and no accidents pay for those who crash into other cars or objects.
Xolodno
(7,350 posts)I don't know where this is coming from, but its completely untrue.
NickB79
(20,356 posts)Eventually insurance will price people in fire or flood zones out of them, but no one will be buying these properties without insurance. Billions in real estate will be left worthless and abandoned, and millions will be impacted as entire communities are left as ghost towns.
If you want to see proof that climate change is real, look to the insurance companies.
Jk23
(455 posts)And this isn't really a political thing you'd be surprised the amount of progressives that buy large beach houses.
albacore
(2,747 posts)I live in Washington..the state....
Nice weather..generally...and mostly disaster-free.
We expect an influx of climate refugees, but not many. Housing prices are thru the roof anywhere near Seattle.
Can't sell a trailer in Florida and buy a small house in the Puget Sound country with the proceeds.
LiberalLoner
(11,467 posts)albacore
(2,747 posts)LiberalLoner
(11,467 posts)
Rebl2
(17,742 posts)the same thing is happening in CA. My sister lives in northern CA and they lost home owners insurance late last year and had to scramble and find other insurance. I think they found some kind of insurance through the state.
Xolodno
(7,350 posts)It's a non-profit FAIR plan, insurer of last resort. You don't want to go to them if you can help it.
California's issue stems from a law called Prop 103 that was enacted in the late 80's. It doesn't allow for CAT modeling (wasn't a big thing back then), DOI not approving rate increases in time, implementing a consumer watch dog entity who gets paid to basically swat down any rate increase, Insurance Commissioner that is elected (often get politicians who use the spot to springboard and don't have a clue about insurance) and many more issues.
There have been a number of reforms proposed that should help, but got swatted to the next legislative session. There is some apprehension on the CAT Modeling as each company will do their own, but that can be fixed as they can create an approved model that the state implements where all insurers offer input and tweak every few years.
LiberalLoner
(11,467 posts)mcar
(46,058 posts)We've only had one claim, a long time ago. We've had this insurance provider for 30+ years. We have a new roof. We are not in a flood zone and are 20 miles + inland from the Gulf.
We are told this is the best insurer around and to stick with them.
My guess is that many of the people in the Big Bend didn't have insurance at all. Frankly, having insurance didn't help the people in SW FL after Idalia last year.
DeathSantis and his minions have given millions away to these insurers and require nothing of them.
HAB911
(10,440 posts)
yaesu
(9,328 posts)driving up home prices. Homes selling for 30k a few yrs ago are selling for 200k now like hotcakes.