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Sogo

(5,754 posts)
Sat Sep 28, 2024, 07:28 PM Sep 28

In 1993, after a 100-yr catastrophic flood event in the Midwest

due to the flooding of the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers, all we heard was "people shouldn't be living and farming in flood zones." Yet when the southeast gets hit year after year by hurricanes, with catastrophic damage and flooding, we just give them money, with no complaints, to repair and re-build so that we can do the same all over again the next year.

Just sayin'....

45 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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In 1993, after a 100-yr catastrophic flood event in the Midwest (Original Post) Sogo Sep 28 OP
How kind of you. yardwork Sep 28 #1
That's just how we felt in 1993. Sogo Sep 28 #2
Snort. I didn't say anything to you in 1993. yardwork Sep 28 #7
Kindness won't stop climate catastrophes NickB79 Sep 28 #15
That's for sure. The only thing shaming accomplishes soldierant Sep 29 #24
Who is shaming people here? yardwork Sep 29 #25
Amen! ❤️ littlemissmartypants Sep 29 #28
Thanks. yardwork Sep 29 #29
YW yardwork. ❤️ littlemissmartypants Sep 29 #31
"kindness and grace." Is that what you were going for in your post? Sogo Sep 29 #35
Nope. I'm asking you to reframe whatever happened to you in 1993. yardwork Sep 29 #36
You're reading a whole lot into my OP that isn't there. Sogo Sep 29 #40
What is this nonsense Jk23 Sep 28 #3
Not what I'm saying at all. Sogo Sep 28 #4
Yep Blue Full Moon Sep 28 #6
That's a long time to carry a grudge! JoseBalow Sep 28 #19
Nixon did it. DiamondShark Sep 29 #43
And last year it was all " nobody should marybourg Sep 29 #32
So you moved away, right? Bobstandard Sep 29 #37
It doesn't happen year after year, as in hurricane regions. See the difference? Sogo Sep 29 #38
Look up the last time a hurricane hit Asheville, NC. yardwork Sep 29 #39
Hey, maybe I wasn't referring to places like Ashville, NC Sogo Sep 29 #42
No I don't really see the difference. Your "100 year" flood will be back soon, before you know it... Hekate Sep 29 #41
Neither of your assertions is true. TwilightZone Sep 28 #5
Water was everywhere, because two of the nation's biggest rivers had flooded. Sogo Sep 28 #9
The cities of Fargo and Moorhead bought hundreds of homes in the flood plain NickB79 Sep 28 #16
Wow soandso Sep 28 #22
Something to think about Blue Full Moon Sep 28 #8
I have a different take but similar conclusion newdeal2 Sep 28 #10
How about all the people who live near forests and vegetation that burns in CA? former9thward Sep 28 #11
Overdevelopment in CA is a big topic out there. Sogo Sep 28 #13
As forest mismanagement should be. EOM littlemissmartypants Sep 28 #17
It's not a contest. Duncan Grant Sep 28 #12
Compassion a plenty....but the point is that Sogo Sep 28 #14
On AOL, with a 14.4 kbs dail-up modem JoseBalow Sep 28 #23
As a young man I visited the San Diego Zoo. bluescribbler Sep 28 #18
Interesting analogy Doc Sportello Sep 29 #26
My thoughts exactly. bluescribbler Sep 29 #33
How's this for irony, their were a couple of Coasties that would spend down time at a pub on IRB I frequented in FL '93 Cheezoholic Sep 28 #20
Where did you hear that? Did social media even exist in 1993? Kaleva Sep 28 #21
Bulletin boards did. nitpicked Sep 29 #27
Before social media, people read newspapers, magazines, opinion pieces, letters to the editor, watched broadcast news, Sogo Sep 29 #34
Then you should be able to provide some sources Kaleva Sep 29 #45
Years of silt accumulation from regular flooding are what makes river valleys such good farmland. eppur_se_muova Sep 29 #30
Yup. Baitball Blogger Sep 29 #44

NickB79

(19,564 posts)
15. Kindness won't stop climate catastrophes
Sat Sep 28, 2024, 09:51 PM
Sep 28

The harsh reality is that we either have to rebuild in these areas to much higher, and more expensive, standards, or abandon those areas as the planet warms.

Shaming people who are pointing out the consequences of a century of uncontrolled carbon emissions won't change this.

soldierant

(7,812 posts)
24. That's for sure. The only thing shaming accomplishes
Sun Sep 29, 2024, 12:37 AM
Sep 29

is that it make people dig in deeper. We humans are very resistant to shaming. What's needed is people who can get them to think it was their own idea to move, or pour money into new and better constructin, or whatever is needed.

yardwork

(63,923 posts)
25. Who is shaming people here?
Sun Sep 29, 2024, 08:55 AM
Sep 29

The people in western North Carolina - 500 miles from the coast - didn't have "hurricane" on their bingo card.

People in Atlanta don't expect to be hit by hurricanes.

Sure, with climate change the weather is getting more extreme, but people here are seriously suggesting that everybody living in the entire southeast leave. And go where? To tornado alley? Places with wildfires? Blizzards? Droughts?

A lot of these posts indicate a lack of geographical knowledge. Maybe people could look at a map before they start blaming people who live in the Appalachian mountains for "insisting on staying in hurricane-prone areas."

Some of these posts remind me of MAGAs. A lot of mean snarling and blaming, based on incomplete information and ignorance. Climate change is affecting all of us. Let's pull together and treat one another with kindness and grace.

yardwork

(63,923 posts)
36. Nope. I'm asking you to reframe whatever happened to you in 1993.
Sun Sep 29, 2024, 10:58 AM
Sep 29

Right now, you're paying forward the ugliness and unkindness you experienced 31 years ago, and dumping it on people you don't know. You have no idea whether the people reading this said mean things about your situation in 1993. I can guarantee you that I didn't. I remember those devastating floods.

There are a bunch of people reading here today who are worried about our loved ones, and/or struggling through a very difficult situation, and your response is to start an OP rubbing it in our faces because of something somebody said to you in 1993, almost a decade before DU even existed.

I'm genuinely sorry that happened to you. It was wrong. Nobody deserves that. I believe you will feel better if you embrace radical forgiveness and pay forward kindness.

Sogo

(5,754 posts)
40. You're reading a whole lot into my OP that isn't there.
Sun Sep 29, 2024, 11:29 AM
Sep 29

I'm very concerned for family that live in Western NC.

Apparently, though, it's too early to discuss steps that might mitigate some of the damage year after year....

Jk23

(302 posts)
3. What is this nonsense
Sat Sep 28, 2024, 07:39 PM
Sep 28

So you're saying if there's an earthquake in Seattle we should not help people.

We shouldn't give money to Buffalo to help when they have a giant snow storm that kills people

We're all Americans I apologize that the rain in the Appalachian Mountains and Midwest is causing you distress sorry you have to give your tax money to poor people who barely have anything to begin with

Sogo

(5,754 posts)
4. Not what I'm saying at all.
Sat Sep 28, 2024, 07:42 PM
Sep 28

I'm all for the help, with no complaints; I just would have appreciated the same consideration in 1993.

Having said all that, isn't it about time we started re-thinking coastal developments in Florida and the Gulf Coast?

Blue Full Moon

(940 posts)
6. Yep
Sat Sep 28, 2024, 08:10 PM
Sep 28

I know the perfect example. Near where I live is a flood zone and it floods every spring. Someone built a racetrack in the flood zone. So every year for the past 30 years that track gets flooded and there is a payout every year for that track being flooded.

DiamondShark

(988 posts)
43. Nixon did it.
Sun Sep 29, 2024, 12:13 PM
Sep 29

Then Regan.
Then George HW Bush.
Then George Bush.
Then Donald Trump.
Maybe it was the Republicans all along.

marybourg

(13,127 posts)
32. And last year it was all " nobody should
Sun Sep 29, 2024, 10:06 AM
Sep 29

be living where it’s hot as hell and they’ll be running out of water some year” re the Southwest. I guess we could all move to North Dakota.

Bobstandard

(1,650 posts)
37. So you moved away, right?
Sun Sep 29, 2024, 11:16 AM
Sep 29

All those farmers left the land too, right? And nobody paid for new levees or flood control projects. Because, reasons.

Sogo

(5,754 posts)
42. Hey, maybe I wasn't referring to places like Ashville, NC
Sun Sep 29, 2024, 11:39 AM
Sep 29

where I have family that I'm very concerned about.

But maybe I was referring to hurricane regions where the damage and repair/re-build happens year after year, as I stated. Read the OP again....

You've taken this discussion so personally, that all you seem to be able to do is attack and try to shame.

Can we ever talk about mitigation of damage?

Hekate

(94,387 posts)
41. No I don't really see the difference. Your "100 year" flood will be back soon, before you know it...
Sun Sep 29, 2024, 11:29 AM
Sep 29

…as will the ever increasing hurricanes coming to the South, and the tornadoes in Tornado Alley, and the wildfires in California.

The cause is climate change, and we’re experiencing the tipping point now.

TwilightZone

(28,686 posts)
5. Neither of your assertions is true.
Sat Sep 28, 2024, 08:09 PM
Sep 28

The prevailing opinion in 1993 wasn't that people shouldn't be living in flood zones, because much of the flooding was outside of historic flood zones and basically *everything* was flooded. I flew into St Louis on my way to Detroit for work, and all we saw for the last 30 minutes of the flight in - hundreds of miles - was water. It looked like a sea full of telephone poles.

As for the southeast, every time Florida gets hit, for example, there are plenty of people who complain that people shouldn't be living in hurricane-prone areas, particularly as sea levels rise. People were saying that New Orleans was a disaster waiting to happen for decades before Katrina.

I think you're seeing and hearing what you want to see and hear. The limitations of your empathy are also a tad curious.

Sogo

(5,754 posts)
9. Water was everywhere, because two of the nation's biggest rivers had flooded.
Sat Sep 28, 2024, 08:19 PM
Sep 28

The Army Corps of Engineer levees had not held. As a result, flooding occurred for miles and miles around. Repeat, two of the nation's biggest rivers overflowed. That makes the region a flood zone. Where you flew into was where the two rivers meet, an especially vulnerable area.

Oh, I have plenty of sympathy. It's just curious to me that sympathy in 1993 and now is reserved to just certain events and regions....

Edited to add: The prevailing opinion in 1993 was very much that people shouldn't be living in flood zones here in the Midwest....There, fixed it for you.

soandso

(877 posts)
22. Wow
Sat Sep 28, 2024, 10:57 PM
Sep 28

Very nice homes torn down but as a long tern strategy to avoid what happened before, I agree with it, as long as the buyouts were voluntary. I noticed one house that's gone still has the one next door there so I assume it is.

A couple of things I've read about rivers and flooding: In ancient Egypt, nobody lived near the Nile. It would flood and then it became great farmland and it was used exclusively for that, with habitation kept at a distance. The other thing is that the practice of walling rivers in makes flooding far worse, when it happens, because it goes gushing out instead of slowing flooding.

Blue Full Moon

(940 posts)
8. Something to think about
Sat Sep 28, 2024, 08:18 PM
Sep 28

Was talking about climate change to friends. Discussed how scientists know from models approximately how the coasts are going be. Maybe a sea wall. Not to keep immigrants out but sea water. The republicans as much as they holler, hoax, are having our military bases be upgraded to minimize the risk of climate change water levels.

newdeal2

(910 posts)
10. I have a different take but similar conclusion
Sat Sep 28, 2024, 08:20 PM
Sep 28

If we are really trying to tackle climate change, we should not be encouraging large cities to be built in the desert or coastal areas prone to hurricanes. Just not sustainable in the long run without huge subsidies.

former9thward

(33,424 posts)
11. How about all the people who live near forests and vegetation that burns in CA?
Sat Sep 28, 2024, 09:21 PM
Sep 28

Is that sustainable? But no one says that is bad.

Duncan Grant

(8,474 posts)
12. It's not a contest.
Sat Sep 28, 2024, 09:27 PM
Sep 28

I understand the need for more discussion — but after the scope of the loss is faced. A little more compassion and empathy would go a long way right now. My .02 cents.

bluescribbler

(2,248 posts)
18. As a young man I visited the San Diego Zoo.
Sat Sep 28, 2024, 10:28 PM
Sep 28

I found the Orangutang exhibit interesting, not for the behavior of the orangutangs, but rather for the behavior of the humans watching the apes. This one ape was picking up dung and flinging it at the people. The spectators would move away from the target zone after each fling, but then would fill back in after the dung had safely landed. I think we're looking at the same phenomenon.

Doc Sportello

(7,962 posts)
26. Interesting analogy
Sun Sep 29, 2024, 09:04 AM
Sep 29

Maybe humans just aren't meant for long term survival. Too captivated by short term goals - like watching orangutans fling poo - than staying safely away from the shit.

Cheezoholic

(2,594 posts)
20. How's this for irony, their were a couple of Coasties that would spend down time at a pub on IRB I frequented in FL '93
Sat Sep 28, 2024, 10:45 PM
Sep 28

This is no shit. Both worked in choppers, one was a rescue diver. They were stationed at Clearwater and roomed and lived on IRB. When the Storm of the Century hit they participated in the largest peacetime sea rescue event in the nations history not just in the GOM but up the eastern seaboard. They were at it 24/7 for 5 days. They said it got hairy as shit out their because a lot of the time they were in the storm.. They got back to normal operations, show up shoot the shit, play some pool. I got to be pretty good friends with them. Well not even a month after the Storm of the Century they started rotating up to the Midwest flying rescue operations 2 weeks gone then rotate out for 2 weeks. They did it all summer. Every 2 weeks when they came back we started collecting things folks up there needed and they would fly them back up with them and hand them out. Said it was some of the hardest shit they ever did and these guys dove into 40 foot seas in hurricane force winds. When it was over one of them had a few, then broke down telling us how much all that stuff we'd gather up every 2 weeks for the folks up there that needed it meant to them.

Goes to show the natural world isn't to be tamed no matter where you are. You can be in the "safest" place in the world but at some point nature's gonna come after ya. That's how folks work together.

That's a story worth remembering

nitpicked

(738 posts)
27. Bulletin boards did.
Sun Sep 29, 2024, 09:26 AM
Sep 29

I recall going over to a friend's place and getting connected there to one board's announcements and comments.

Sogo

(5,754 posts)
34. Before social media, people read newspapers, magazines, opinion pieces, letters to the editor, watched broadcast news,
Sun Sep 29, 2024, 10:39 AM
Sep 29

listened to local radio, and talked with people face-to-face.

eppur_se_muova

(37,343 posts)
30. Years of silt accumulation from regular flooding are what makes river valleys such good farmland.
Sun Sep 29, 2024, 09:53 AM
Sep 29

People will always turn floodzones into farmland, because that's where the crops grow best.

And then the farmers need to live close to their crops.

And then the support infrastructure for farming will move into the area.

And then the employees of feed supply, storage and processing facilities, farm equipment maintenance/repair, etc. and their families will follow.

Before you know it, there's a large population residing on land whose original attractiveness was precisely the fact that it has flooded many times in the past.

As long as human beings have to grow their food, expect to see this process play out many, many times.

Baitball Blogger

(47,758 posts)
44. Yup.
Sun Sep 29, 2024, 12:17 PM
Sep 29

And the thing is, twenty years ago they knew what areas would get flooded, but they still built houses because the property rights lawyers savaged every safeguard, the developers build for the money, and the homeowners are now left with no insurance, because the insurance companies are leaving.

So, what's wrong with this picture? You can't turn the clock back, you can't sue the responsible parties. There is a lot of misery, just like past government, the legal system and private corporations knew it would turn out.

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