Walz is giving a debating master-class.

[OAITW r.2.0]

This guy does not need a teleprompter. He's speaking from his heart.

[JohnSJ]

1. Not really. He is holding his own, but it isn't good enough. Vance is putting Walz on the defensive, and Walz needs to

put Vance on the defensive.

The moderators are holding Vance more accountable than Walz is. Why is Walz saying I agree with some of the things that Vance is saying?

Frankly, that is not the way you do it.

[NoRethugFriends]

3. Correct

[Stuckinthebush]

7. Agreed

This is not Walz’ strong suit. It is JDs however.

[brakester]

35. Don't agree.

This is a master class in debating.
As usual, the only side that speaks out of turn and interrupts is the Republican side.
That last comment Gov Walz made before this last break was primo.
He's an excellent orator and deeply kind individual.
He's a roll model for us all. So is Kamala.

[Stuckinthebush]

37. Yes he is deeply kind and a role model

And he did much better toward the end. But no it was not a master class in debating. That’s ok though - he did a fine job of making his points.

[murielm99]

45. He is Minnesota nice.

That is what is wrong here.
However, anyone with a brain will prefer Minnesota nice.

[ArkansasDemocrat1]

58. I'd rather have Minnesota nice than the hillbilly shapeshifter

[whathehell]

12. I agree

I'm getting worried.

[Sugarcoated]

16. Really?

Worried about what?

[whathehell]

22. Yes.

About what?..The same things as poster John SJ mentioned.

[Random Boomer]

25. These are not election-changing failings

Even if Walz technically "loses" the debate, as long as he doesn't make egregious errors, we'll all be fine. I'll be relieved if it's at least a draw, so both sides can happily say "our candidate won."

[whathehell]

28. Maybe not..

I'm not quite as confident as you are, especially when I hear about the election being won "around the margins", but I'm keeping the faith!

[Sugarcoated]

26. Most Americans don't analyze debates by "rules of debate"

Walz held his own. Vance lost on the Jan 6th question.

[whathehell]

31. I'm not through with the debate yet,

have it on DVR.

[NJCher]

62. not to mention

lying about an abortion ban. They have him on tape saying that's what he wants. Let's hope the media plays that tomorrow. Since it's an easy point with video, they likely will.

And if they don't, we can spread it around!

[NJCher]

17. ehhh, not so sure you're correct on that

Walz has a stronger command of the facts than Vance does. Walz calls him on it, too, and does it professionally.

[louis-t]

19. Maga doesn't know anything about facts.

Whatever Vance lies about, they will nod their heads and agree.

[NJCher]

20. Magats are beyond convincing

They're in the cult. Not an available vote.

We're going after the few independents and undecideds that are left.

[OAITW r.2.0]

34. Concur.

I wish you'd come up here and produce one of your tasty daily dinners. Always like to read the evening's menu!

[Martin Eden]

63. Undecided voters are not clear on the facts

Vance is a very slick speaker and gaslighter, sounding very reasonable and well spoken. He knows how to repeat lies in a way that sounds like they have a real basis in fact.

He kept referring to "the Harris wide open border policy" and asserting the economy was much better under Trump. Both statements are flatly untrue, but to the low information voter Walz did not effectively refute those lies.

Unfortunately, these televised "debates" with no fact checking are not about who has a better command of the facts. "Winning" is a matter of how it affects public perception among undecided voters. From what I saw, this televised event likely helped the Trump ticket.

On the basis of facts, Biden destroyed Trump in their "debate." The felon spewed a gish gallop of lies that should be utterly disqualifying for any candidate. But we all know it was an utter disaster for Joe Biden, necessitating his dropping out of the race.

Vance is a very skilled smooth talking liar. Walz is a very honest, competent, and decent man. In my opinion he was too nice and did too much to normalize his opponent by saying they had much to agree upon. I'm sorry, but a liar like Vance who has no moral ties to the truth is not a colleague with whom you simply disagree on some issues. Vance is tied to Donald Trump, the greatest domestic threat to our Constitutional republic in our nation's history.

Walz needed to be more effective in spelling out the severity of Trump’s crime -- that the BIG LIE of a stolen election inflamed the passion of the mob that attacked Congress on that day. He told that crowd they had to "fight like hell" or they "wouldn't have a country anymore" -- then he sent them to our nation's Capitol and they fought like hell against the police, sending many of them to the hospital and forcing our nation's elected representatives to flee for their lives.

What did Trump do during this unprecedented assault on our democracy? He watched it on television for three hours while his own staff pleaded with him to make it stop.

Republican Senate leader Mitch McConnell said Trump was practically and morally responsible for the assault. The attempted violent coup might have succeeded if Mike Pence had not taken a principled stand to uphold our Constitution.

Vance, on the other hand, stated he would have done what Pence refused to do -- accept the fake electors to overturn a free and fair election.

I'm sorry, but Tim Walz fell far short of articulating to undecided voters the severity of Trump’s crime and the very real threat he poses to our democracy.

If I could type this off the top of my head after a few hours of restless sleep, our candidate for Vice President should have been able to nail Vance's hide to the wall with it.

I have great respect and admiration for Tim Walz, but in my opinion he missed a big opportunity last night to persuade undecided voters that the Trump ticket is completely unacceptable.

[NJCher]

64. Editing is your friend

I could type this off the top of my head after a few hours of restless sleep,

Do you know what TLDR means?

I glanced through and saw “I’m sorry” too many times. To me, a hallmark of someone who is trying too hard to convince.
.

[Martin Eden]

65. Really?

That's your reply to the substance of my post?

To paraphrase Tim Walz:
That's a damning non-reply.

[NJCher]

66. You really shouldn't attempt to take

Up peoples’ time with rough (very rough) drafts.

I have decades of discerning arguments. Yours boils down to “I’m a sucker for a slickster.”

All the I’m sorries in the world won’t make up for that.

Writing is a very good means for sorting out one’s thoughts. You admit that’s what you did. Just don’t pretend the rest of us will fall for it as anything but your unedited morning-after thoughts.

[Martin Eden]

67. That's your opinion, easily refuted

Your accusation that "I"m a sucker for a slickster" is flatly contradicted by the fact that I labeled him a smooth talking liar.

The substance of my post was that voters who are still undecided at this point are very likely unclear on the facts, and could be persuaded by the gaslighting Vance put on display last night. To suggest that I'm a sucker for that is to totally ignore what I actually wrote.

The substance of my post also dealt with the performance of Tim Walz, whom I greatly admire and think was an excellent choice for VP. Unfortunately he was a little too nice to his opponent, normalizing him and missing opportunities to nail him -- especially on Jan 6.

If you disagree on substance, by all means offer up a logical argument based on what transpired at the debate.

Instead, your replies are little more than a personal attack. If you did not understand what I wrote, I'll be glad to spell it out for you.

[NJCher]

68. then I'd have to read that dreadfully long post

Last edited Wed Oct 2, 2024, 03:09 PM - Edit history (1)

If I wanted to do that, I'd take on another course in freshman English.

You are right about one thing: it was a personal attack. A well-deserved one, IMO. On the other hand, I did hit the scroll button, so I really have nothing to complain about, so maybe not so well-deserved.

[Sugarcoated]

18. Showing the ability and willingness to be bipartisan

I would think that would be attractive to undecideds

[Abolishinist]

39. I agree. Look at it this way,

if you didn't have a clue as to who they were, or the topic of discussion, one presented themselves as being calmer, i.e. more in control, while the other was busy taking fastidious notes and from time to time becoming flustered.

[Jack Valentino]

41. Vance was saying "I actually agree with Tim Walz, BUT--"

he was trying to muddy his own positions with moderates and undecideds,
as I pointed out in "New Drinking Game: "I actually agree with Tim Walz" "
https://democraticunderground.com/100219523181

[GopherGal]

2. Unless high school classrooms have changed...

in my day, no teleprompters in HS classrooms.
An occupational skill that is translating to the campaign trail and debate stage.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

4. Governor Walz is doing great

[malaise]

5. Excellent

Fact checking him as well

[Patton French]

6. Offense v defense.

Debating 101. Don’t perpetually stay on defense.

[DeeDeeNY]

8. Vance lies through his teeth but does so suavely

Walz talked a little too fast and looked nervous at the beginning, but as the debate goes on I think he's doing better.

[DemonGoddess]

9. What's really irking me with this

is the circle lying that Vance is doing. What I mean by that, is lying in a roundabout fashion, but STILL lying. I can't watch much more of this, it's making my stomach hurt.

[Cheezoholic]

13. Slick Tounged Snake Oil Salesman. He sounds like a Saturday afternoon local used car commercial on every break n/t

[littlemissmartypants]

33. Mini Trump.

Lies, lies, lies, lies and more lies. Mini Trump.
They both wear makeup and still can't cover up their ugly.

[DemonGoddess]

47. He really does

[Conjuay]

51. weasels do weasely things.

And that guy is a weasel.

[oasis]

10. I didn't realize how smart Gov.Walz is. He's ready.

[DeeDeeNY]

21. Walz is not used to going negative and is too nice

He didn't emphasize how Trump's and Vance's lies about Haitian immigrants stealing and eating pets in Springfield, Ohio caused schools to be closed and put lives in danger

[oasis]

27. America is yearning for a "nice guy" Walz.

The Gov is a nice guy with a high level of intelligence.
A twofer.

[OAITW r.2.0]

36. Agree....he makes it easy for mid-west Republicans to come on over.

He will be the great game changer in this election.

[oasis]

48. A return to the fresh air of "congeniality".

[OAITW r.2.0]

49. And treating true MAGA;s as the anti-socialists that they are.

Need to make them disappear again.

[lindysalsagal]

11. Got all his facts straight.

[iluvtennis]

14. Vance is a fast talking carnival barker, he doesn't

answer the questions.

[ananda]

15. I also think Walz is doing well!

He makes the true policy points that Vance lies about,
while also getting real zingers in against Trump.

I like it.

[LilElf70]

23. And to think

the MSM made such a big deal about Walz being nervous and will probably not do well.

This guy is smoking it. I would be perfectly happy with him filling in for Harris, for any reason.

He rocked it tonight.

[OAITW r.2.0]

24. Exactly...an honestly great ticket, maybe the best of my lifetime.

Last edited Tue Oct 1, 2024, 11:38 PM - Edit history (1)

And I thought Coach was yanking the Vance chain on his nervousness.....LOL.

[LilElf70]

32. Walz spoke from the heart

He was real. He was factual. He spoke from the heart. Not 1 lie.

I was quite impressed.

And Vance...... He will regret his lie on his support for abortion. He reminds me of the snake in the grass. Unbelievable.

[OAITW r.2.0]

38. Walz brings the mid-west to Kamala's Coasts.

[FlyingPiggy]

29. That does come through. He's genuine and all heart

[Self Esteem]

30. Walz did fine but no, that wasn't a masterclass.

Go watch what Biden did to Paul Ryan in 2012 and you'll see a masterclass debate.

Harris' debate vs Trump was also much stronger.

Walz was fine but it was not a great performance by either candidate.

[JohnSJ]

40. I agree, though the second half of the debate Walz definitely on top, and the January 6th question he was called out big

time by Walz.

[OAITW r.2.0]

42. Harris v. Trump? GMAFB. That was a disaster for Trump.

Vance was auditioning for the POTUS via 25th gambit. He might have passed their test tonight.

[Self Esteem]

43. What are you talking about? I specifically mentioned Trump-Harris as an example of a masterclass from one side.

[OAITW r.2.0]

44. I apologize, I meant Harris v. Trump was not a fair fight. Vance isn't Trump...he's the Republican future!

Tim kicked Vance;s ass in the Mid-West. If Vance didn't have to lie for Trump, he could be a formidable candidate. I mean, there is no one else.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

46. Walz did a great job

Link to tweet

[liberalla]

55. Yes, he did! And these two video clips are great. Thank you!

[kacekwl]

50. That's how I determine the winner

He spoke from his heart and was passionate. I would buy a car or aluminum siding from this man.

[OAITW r.2.0]

52. Exactly. You believe this guy. He has a record. He's honest.

I believe there will be some interesting political changes in the Upper Mid-west.

[stollen]

53. Walz made me want to move to MN

It's a state that is highly literate, has excellent health care and social services, and is simply human rather than accusing. That's how Walz came off to me. MN policies are working. Let's try them on a federal level.

[OAITW r.2.0]

54. No doubt. If I am young and mobile and live in the Mid-West, I'd gravitate there.

State policies that support young people and families.

[SunSeeker]

59. Yes, he made it sound like MN is the Finland of America.

But I couldn't handle the weather. I'll never leave Southern California.

[cilla4progress]

56. He's fabulous.

Even owning misspeaking.

What some are bemoaning as lack of polish shows he's authentic. Super. He should be very proud and I hope Kamala is. He did better than I expected. New setting for him.

Kudos.

Vance scapegoats media when asked to explain his changing statements about trump. First blamed media, then congress, Tim took responsibility.

[OAITW r.2.0]

57. I am watching Mid-West polling after tonight. Tim is moving a lot of votes, I think.

[GoodRaisin]

60. He should be moving more votes. He had more moments than Vance did tonight.

In fact, I don’t really recall any really particularly substantial moment Vance had. I think Vance has managed to fool some people by lying eloquently (being “smooth” in the delivery of his lies). But Tim won several issues hands down on substance and landed the knock out blow at the end. I think Tim won with room to spare. Not as bad as Kamala trashed Trump, but decisively.

[OAITW r.2.0]

61. At the end of the day, I think there may be people in the mid-west that can't vote for Trump and can't vote for Kamala..

But they will vote Harris-Walz.