Let's be clear, this map is not solely the result of Climate Change, it is more the result of where Florida is

[Cheezoholic]

With or without Climate Change FL will be hit by these huge storms. Its simply the result of FL's unique location, geography and deep symbiosis with the oceans. Climate change is increasing the frequency of both number and stronger wetter storms of course. But if you moved to FL and then bitch and OMG Climate Change! you're an idiot. Its always happened there and always will until we're extinct. And be forewarned if you plan on moving there. Either don't or if you do educate yourself about your environment. FL was never a great hospitable place for people, ever, even now. If you don't like it leave. If you can't handle it don't go. Leave the damn place be. Mother nature is going to root us out of there anyway. Yearly Fl Rant done

Stay safe and evacuate. Plead with anyone you know in evacuation zones to leave. Help them find where to evacuate to if you have to. Its right at your fingertips. Anybody who stays is selfish and risking the lives of brave first responders and further stressing the already thinly stretched disaster relief efforts both in this state and at the Federal level. YOU ARE NEEDLESLY TAKING AWAY RESOURCES FROM THOSE ALREADY IN NEED IF YOU STAY, LEAVE!
[img][/img]

[Lunabell]

1. This was a particularly nasty post.

[Deuxcents]

4. Yeah. Some of us were born here and I know my parents and grandparents didn't have it easy

The op was for those moving here but I still think it’s unkind. No matter where one wants to relocate, some due diligence is in order. Unless you’re in the military and have no voice in the matter

[Lunabell]

8. While I agree about not evacuating,

the part about bitching about climate change? Nope. These storms are unprecedented. I have lived here 40 years and it has only gotten worse. We've "weathered" a lot of hurricanes, but not like this.

And I am not an idiot. People who spout right wing talking points on DU are the idiots.

[Cheezoholic]

11. Whose bitching about Climate Change? Not me man, I've been a believer for over 40 years

Did you not read the post or just the headline? Let me repeat FL was and is going to be hit by huge storms because of where it is. Climate change is just increasing the frequency of them. What is bashing Climate Change about that? I have to defend this all the time when it comes to this state. Look at 100 year hurricane map. They are part of the story there. Whether there was Climate Change or not I would say this because I've seen the people who move there and whine about the storms. Makes me sick.

[malaise]

13. You are correct

The same is true for the islands in the Caribbean.

[Lunabell]

14. And it's "who's"

With or without Climate Change FL will be hit by these huge storms. Its simply the result of FL's unique location, geography and deep symbiosis with the oceans. Climate change is increasing the frequency of both number and stronger wetter storms of course. But if you moved to FL and then bitch and OMG Climate Change! you're an idiot. Its always happened there and always will until we're extinct.

[Cheezoholic]

9. It was meant to be. Don't go there if you can't deal with it

Half the problem is too many damn people down there who don't know (or care) where they are moving. I post it here and elsewhere every year. I will pound this message until the day I die. Its the damn truth. My family goes back 4 generations (farther probably) there. It's the simple painful truth and anything I can do to discourage naïve selfish people from moving there I will. Truth hurts sometimes.

[Lunabell]

10. You're post is one right wing talking point.

[Cheezoholic]

15. Far far from it. RW talking point is building and inviting people to somewhere they shouldn't be

YOU don't get what I'm saying. I am a wholesale believer in Climate Change, rapid human caused Climate Change. I am also an avid believer in the reality of FL. I hope this post stirs emotions and brings up how dangerous of a place it is to live.

[Lunabell]

17. Your quote:

With or without Climate Change FL will be hit by these huge storms. Its simply the result of FL's unique location, geography and deep symbiosis with the oceans. Climate change is increasing the frequency of both number and stronger wetter storms of course. But if you moved to FL and then bitch and OMG Climate Change! you're an idiot. Its always happened there and always will until we're extinct.

[Cheezoholic]

34. Are you actually saying FL won't be hit by these huge storms without Climate Change? That's not very smart at all

Seriously man. Climate change is increasing the frequency of both number and stronger wetter storms of course. Yeah thats what I said

[Lunabell]

36. No

I'm saying it is getting worse and worse with climate change. Your post says that it has always happened due to Florida's position in the gulf. And we're idiots if we think differently.

If that was not your intention, perhaps your writing style is more emotional than logical.

[Cheezoholic]

42. It HAS always happened and Climate Change IS making it worse and yes, people are idiots if they don't get that

Floridas unique position between the GOM and the Atlantic ocean make it exponentially more prone to being hit by tropical systems than any other place in the US. Am I wrong?

[Lunabell]

43. No

But, I had to re-read several times your post to follow your train of thought and make sense of what you were trying to say. But, that's just your style of writing.

[msongs]

19. its like there has never been a hurricane in florida in recorded history lol nt

[H2O Man]

29. I agree.

Climate change affects different places in different ways. And I doubt there is anyone who isn't aware of severe storms on the FL coast, or heat in the western states. It's the pace that these things are getting worse that appropriately gets attention.

[malaise]

35. I don't understand the problem here

Hurricanes always affect islands in the Caribbean but this year in freaking July one strengthened rapidly and destroyed an island that is rarely touched because it intensified in hours- because of climate change. Our location makes us vulnerable but climate change makes it worse. How is that an RW talking point?

[H2O Man]

56. It's not.

That is exactly the point those of us disagreeing with the OP are making. (I haven't read anyone saying the OP was a RW talking point. Just that it was mean-spirited.)

[littlemissmartypants]

62. #10

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219543370#post10

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19543959
That is exactly the point those of us disagreeing with the OP are making. (I haven't read anyone saying the OP was a RW talking point. Just that it was mean-spirited.)

[H2O Man]

63. Exactly as noted,

I had not read #10. But now I have, and I have no problem saying I disagree with it. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. But it in no manner changes my mind about the OP. My post was agreeing with #1.

[littlemissmartypants]

86. Understood. Concur with your assessment. LY. ❤️

[BannonsLiver]

33. Definitely. It also doesn't sound very science-y if I'm being honest.

[Elessar Zappa]

2. How compassionate of you.

[Cheezoholic]

27. Oh please, MAGA troll? Look me up man. Geez, I specifically said Climate Change is real

You of all people should know, and probably do know of, idiots who move down there then bitch about storms. People who move down there completely un-prepared for how FL bites. The absolute destruction of that beautiful state by greedy developers. Yeah, stay away if you don't live there. Go move somewhere else. If I had a Nickle for every person I knew down there that never took storms seriously.

[True Dough]

51. Look you up?

Google says Cheezoholic is a Gouda guy!

[MorbidButterflyTat]

54. .

[lostnfound]

88. Born there 60 years ago, family still there, I'm worried sick and you are just being awful nt

[mcar]

5. Oh, the "Florida deserves what it gets" is starting early

along with some Class A climate change denialism.

This Floridian (lived here since 1990) says, with all the Southern meaning - bless your heart.

[Cheezoholic]

18. How am I denying Climate Change? READ THE POST! n/t

[mcar]

44. I READ THE POST

and found it, frankly, disgusting.

[Lovie777]

6. When both poles are melting causing warmer waters....................

the issue is important because humankind should try and not fuck with mother nature. Seems like every part of the earth and waters do have natural occurrences, therefore most events, life, non-life plays an integral part in the cycle.

In my area, it's earthquakes. Most fire seems to be caused by man, rains come after fires - mud slides.

Old saying - "such is life".

Stay safe.

[Think. Again.]

7. It should be made clear that climate change IS INDEED CAUSING more severe and more frequent storms in that area.

And this, that we are seeing now, is just the beginning, these storms in that area will continue to be more severe and more frequent (unless and until the AMOC collapses which will cause much, much worse problems https://insideclimatenews.org/news/09022024/climate-impacts-from-collapse-of-atlantic-meridional-overturning-current-could-be-worse-than-expected/ )

[Cheezoholic]

20. Did I not say that? Where did I not say that. Please tell me n/t

[ProudMNDemocrat]

12. Hurricane Season still has close to 2 months to go and the Gulf of Mexico is still hot.

The Phoenix area has endured close to 4 months of 100+ degree days. Is it any wonder the waters of the Gulf of Mexico remains in the mid to upper 80's for water temperature?

Something to think about as it does indeed relate to Climate Change. Florida could cease to exist with more frequent tropical storms like this and its location matters!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

16. "Anybody who stays is selfish." Fix your heart.

[Cheezoholic]

22. You stay in an evacuation zone you are selfish period n/t

[WhiskeyGrinder]

23. That statement is ignorant and cruel.

[Cheezoholic]

30. It is ignorant and cruel to stay and need rescued if you stay and were told to evacuate

What part of making that point is cruel on my part? Ask any first responder. they are screaming at the tops of their lungs to leave right now. What don't you get?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

32. The cruelty comes from ignoring the reality many people face in moments like these.

They don't have the resources to evacuate -- they don't have a place to go, nor the money to rent a place. They don't have access to transportation. They are ill or disabled and can't move their equipment. They have pets and can't find a place that will take them and their pets. They have people with these issues relying on them.

Sure, there are folks who won't go because they're purely stubborn. But in the majority of cases, people have strong reasons to stay.

[Cheezoholic]

37. There are always ways to evacuate. One thing thats gotten done very well down there since Andrew

Thats providing coastal residences shelters during storms including transportation to and from. You can register with the local authorities if your sick or alone and can't get around or for just about any reason long prior to the storms and they will come and get you anytime an evacuation order is issued for your area. . As much as repukes have destroyed the state there's a lot on this front thats been done. My father is being picked up tomorrow from his mobile home in Largo FL by just such public services and taken to a shelter. There are plenty of options especially in Pinellas county.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

45. "There are always ways to evacuate."

And they are always limited. It definitely feels good to get mad at people you feel deserve it, but understanding that there are reasons people don't evacuate beyond stubbornness helps clarify what needs to be done to support them as well.

[Cheezoholic]

47. My grandfather, a "native" Floridian grandfather once told me when it comes to hurricanes

If you're in a wheelchair stuck on the RR tracks at noon knowing the 3pm train is coming and someone standing there says "do you need help" and you say "no this is my only wheelchair I'll do it" then at 2:59 right before the train hits you yell help and that person has to risk their life to get you wheelchair be damned, you're the problem. That's how I was raised. So yeah, I don't get it and we weren't rich.
He sold crabs and oysters at a roadside stand to make a living, which wasn't much.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

48. K

[buzzycrumbhunger]

55. Evacuate to WHERE?

By noon today, people coming into our pharmacy were reporting that the interstate and all roads leading to it were at a standstill. TWO DAYS out from landfall.

Luckily, I’m into zone C and on somewhat of a “hill” (as far as we have hills here) so that past storms have simply drained down the street and into the intercoastal. The most evidence of water we’ve experienced was when there was so much run-off through the overloaded storm drains that the manhole cover in front of our house was jumping up and down for a few hours.

I have to work tomorrow (we're attached to a hospital) and it’s already too late to go anywhere (reservations are gone), all the gas stations are closed because they’ve already run out, and I’ve got four parrots and two cats we couldn’t possibly fit into a car even if there was a place to go.

Best we can do is hope it does indeed slow down before landfall as we’ve weathered Cat 3 storms just fine. We also just had fkg Helene only a week ago, so the majority of that debris has already been hauled off. Our neighbourhood lost its biggest and oldest trees during Ian, so hopefully we won’t lose more—or if we do, they don’t drop on our cars or house.

We get a lot of people urging us to go, but obviously have no clue about the logistics. There just isn’t the lead time to get this many people out of here, to say nothing of the fact that wages suck (right to work state) and the vast majority of the working class just can’t afford to head inland and relax in a hotel or BnB somewhere until the coast is clear. We’re stuck to ride it out and hope that it veers enough north or south of us (I’m in Sarasota) that the effects here are less.

I have a bad feeling Tampa is going to bear the brunt of this storm—something that hasn’t happened before. Last storm, the Howard Frankland bridge had waves over TOP of it. A direct hit from Milton could tear that apart and send almost 3-1/2 million residents into chaos.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

60. I'm saying. OP is the one believing there's a solution for everyone.

[Keepthesoulalive]

78. Where to start

Many people live in central Florida because of the mouse (Walt Disney world).
The number of people they employ is incredible and let’s include the hotels, restaurants, the airport and law firms. Every one is not retired and living in The Villages. Florida is a vacation destination and a convention spot. There are a lot of service workers who don’t make a lot of money and they are getting by the best they can, they cannot afford to evacuate and if they could try to find a hotel south of Richmond Virginia. Try giving them good vibes , prayer whatever. They do not need a fire , brimstone and damnation sermon.

[Cheezoholic]

79. Talking about beaches etc. I did specify evacuation zones. I have family down there. I wish no ill will upon anyone

One side of my family is from there (and the Islands) and I'm not just some stupid hick yelling about this crap. Look, y'all didn't get what I was sayin', I get slammed every year when I post this. And I don't just post it here, but I tend to get the most grief here and that's fine. Maybe more clearly on my part this time but its an emotional touchy point for me because I do see people who do whine and who don't leave and who don't get where they live. It is a political issue and if I would've said MAGAts not evacuating or understanding where they live were idiots I'm sure the negativity would not have been as bad. Some of the stuff posted on this site about people hit by disasters in red states is far worse than what I posted, like let them drown, they vote for republicans type stuff. I'll take my lumps and continue to enjoy and participate in this community and will continue to speak my progressive liberal mind.
(I'm not a right wing troll btw, anybody could click on my posts and see that.)
Peace

[soandso]

81. You've been treated badly

which I found pretty appalling. If you even mention that hurricane country always has storms, it's like you're a heretic, which is absurd.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

83. I appreciate your thoughts. And mostly agree. Leave if you can. Expect Hurricanes in FLORIDA! lol

[Keepthesoulalive]

87. I don't think you are a right winger

I lived there for over 30 years, couldn’t wait to leave but timing is everything. A lot of people have friends and family members there, many of the people on DU live there they need good vibes because they are facing a catastrophe. We’re all very worried for different reasons ,we believe in climate change and we all despise Desantis but we can discuss these things when people are safe and this monster leaves. Chastising folks now just deepens the hurt and fear. They have a very difficult road ahead, let’s make it a little easier by holding all of Florida in our thoughts and whatever deity or non deity you choose to hold them in the light.

[MotownPgh]

50. All of my florida friends are extremely

defensive too. They love where they live. I was reading an article from the st pete times to 2 of them 15 years ago. It was all about storm surge and flooding even specifically about Tampa General Hospital and where it is built. How there were no good solutions living on the front lines of these inevitable storms. I think they are hoping it won't get much worse until they die in 15-20 years but some have kids there.

[Torchlight]

21. One day someone will write the list of All Acceptable Places to Live

regardless of personal circumstance. It may even attempt to sound vaguely assistive, though I imagine it's intent will be decidely sanctimonious at heart.

[The Madcap]

41. I've given it some thought

If the criteria are high costs, frequent disasters, bad weather, horrible people, and poor infrastructure, then we all might be out of luck in finding a place to live that has none of the above. You have to make the best of where you are, and if a place has something that truly makes it unlivable, make a plan and find a way to move to somewhere more to your liking. It's a huge effort, but sometimes it's for the best.

Please note that I'm referring to the entire country, not just Florida. It's really hard to think of a place with no significant issues.

[misanthrope]

24. Longest contiguous coastline in the United States

There are 1,350 miles of coast in Florida, not counting barrier islands. All of it faces warm water that fosters these storms.

I read something baffling today, where a professor who worked in Mobile, Alabama retired and moved to Tampa ostensibly because he was tired of dealing with hurricanes. I don't know what his area of expertise is, but I certainly hope it wasn't science-related.

[senseandsensibility]

25. I don't agree with your assessment of the role of climate change

and I don't understand why you would want to downplay it.

[Cheezoholic]

31. How did I downplay it? Florida has been hit by 3 of only 4 landfalling Cat5 hurricanes in history

It's gonna get hit Climate Change or not because of where its at. I specifically stated the number of storms and number of stronger storms is increasing due to climate Change. How am I wrong?

[whopis01]

40. Your statements do downplay climate change

The statement
"But if you moved to FL and then bitch and OMG Climate Change! you're an idiot."
absolutely downplays the role of climate change.

In fairness, you did say
"Climate change is increasing the frequency of both number and stronger wetter storms of course."
immediately prior to this statement.

However, you followed it immediately by saying if you live in Florida and complain about climate change you are an idiot. Why does complaining about climate change ever make someone an idiot?

Are you saying that if you are concerned about climate change, you shouldn't live in Florida? It sounds like you are saying that if you are going to be concerned about climate change, you shouldn't live in a place that is severely impacted by it. And if you do choose to live in an area severely impacted by it you should just keep your mouth shut.

Yes, Florida has always been in the path of hurricanes. That doesn't negate the increased problem of stronger and more frequent hurricanes.

[Cheezoholic]

46. Yes, you said it better than I. I'm no English or writing major. I mistakenly inferred that my point was clear n/t

[enid602]

26. California

FL needs a ‘Save the Coast’ bill, similar to CA’s of about 60 years ago. It’s too late, of course but for FL to save its coast, CA managed to preserve its coastline and move population growth away from the Coast to a large degree. And its coast is and always be the most beautiful on Earth.

[Cheezoholic]

38. Yes, unfortunately such forethought was bought out by developers that built places like Cape Coral n/t

[RandySF]

28. I hope Broward and Orange counties will be ok.

[Coexist]

39. I was raised in Buffalo, and moved to Florida for over 30 years,

(after a fun 2 year stint in the Caribbean).

I lived in Ft. Lauderdale, Sunrise, Naples, Tampa, and St. Pete (St. Pete is by FAR the best of Florida)

The summers began to get unbearable. I went from someone who loved to always sit outside in summer at restaurants, who prepped but stayed during hurricanes to someone else. I began to feel uncomfortable during morning walks, to get heat rashes in weather I used to enjoy, who got headaches from being in the sun. The weather had changed, and not for the better. And it seemed to be getting worse, year over year.

Couple that with the desperate desire for the state government to turn us into MAGAland, and I no longer wanted to be there. I left some of the best friends I have ever made in that state.

I moved to Asheville, NC and I do love it here.

That all said, there is a word here from people who were raised up north, moved to Florida and said, "Oh f@*k no!" and moved halfway back. We are halfbacks! it's a thing.

There are lots of people who move to Florida with some weird assumptions. And they do complain, and it is irritating to those who made it their home for decades. So I get the OP.

[Happy Hoosier]

49. We knew this was coming....

... some areas of the country will become basically uninhabitable.

[dutch777]

52. Good advice for people with money but I worry about folks who can't fill the gas tank to leave

If they even have a car. Not everyone is a retiree or sun bird from up north. More than a few in FL are living paycheck to paycheck and may have nothing in reserve to be able to evacuate or to protect themselves and their property. One size does not fit all.

[Auggie]

53. U.S. corporations know ...

limiting liability by not renewing homeowners’ policies and/or raising rates. Same in California, though with different risk: earthquakes, wildfire, density.

[soandso]

57. 1950 FL population was 2.8 million

Now it's 22.6 million! That's a shit ton more structures and contents to cover when damage happens. Hence, insurance companies pulling out.

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/states/florida/population

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

58. Only climate change allows these huge storms

Without climate change, there is not enough energy to create storms as huge.

Therefore, Florida would not be hit with those huge storms if climate change did not exist.

[Cheezoholic]

61. The 2 most intense hurricanes (lowest pressures at landfall) to strike the US in history were 1935 and 1969

So yes, the GOM/Atlantic has been and will continue to be capable of producing such storms. Will more frequent landfalling Cat5s happen? I'd say the odds are going up, especially for the Islands. Of more concern is Climate Change enabling all storms to pick up much more moisture than they did 50 years ago. 100 year floods are becoming 50 or 25 year floods inland because of it. Far more dangerous than just big wind and surge. I never denied Climate Change. I've believed it since high school in the 70's.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

65. No, it has not been capable of producing storms as strong as it is now capable of.

And, other than nuance, you could say that every storm is now stronger than it would have been.

"With or without Climate Change FL will be hit by these huge storms."
"OMG Climate Change!"

You made this about climate change, instead of just making it about the idea that folks should be prepared for the idea of hurricanes when living in Florida.

It seems, to me, that it is perfectly reasonable to use intense hurricanes as a reason to bitch about climate change.
They are more intense and more frequent. Florida, may someday actually get some benefit, if the currents change enough that hurricane paths shift, although if that happens, there would probably be even more pain.

The reason some see hints of a RW talking point is that it sounds a little like, "quit complaining about climate change, there have always been hurricanes.", which is a psychological way to dismiss the importance of Climate Change.

[Cheezoholic]

67. "which is a psychological way to dismiss the importance of Climate Change" I'm not that smart or devious n/t

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

68. lol, great post! nt

[soandso]

73. When do you believe hurricanes began?

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

74. About 3.8 billion years ago. When do you think climate change started? nt

[soandso]

75. Like the earth

it's always in a state of change.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

76. "it's always in a state of change." That's something that can be said to lessen the gravity of Man Made Climate Change.

[soandso]

77. No, it isn't

[yardwork]

59. Stop with the mean posts. Jeez.

[Prairie Gates]

64. Loving this edition of "How to Win Friends and Influence People"

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

66. Did you have a problem with something I said?

[angrychair]

69. I felt for a long time

That, eventually, we may need to start significantly limiting the Florida population south of Tampa/Orlando area. Basically limit year around living, turning everything from Tampa to Key West into a giant federal park with limited seasonal services and no one living there year around.
We cannot keep building and rebuilding and expecting insurance companies to cover billions in loses year after year. It's just not sustainable.

[flamingdem]

72. They should at least have strict building codes

and stay out of Zone A!

But it's Tampa in the bullseye this time.

Tampa Bay is so vulnerable. Yikes.

[ornotna]

70. Lighten up Francis

Maybe slowdown on those cheese balls.

[flamingdem]

71. Here again for Milton

Was here for Ian.

Timing...

[Metaphorical]

80. Let's be clear

There are THREE named hurricanes active in the Atlantic right now, and one more is forming, and there's another hurricane in Europe. Tampa is unusual in that it has not had a direct hit in more than 100 years, and never be a storm this big.

I lived in Florida in the 1980s, and remember going to Disney World around Christmas and had to wear a jacket (a light one, but it was in the fifties). I went to Disney world again a few years ago, and it was 98 degree at the same time of year, and this has become the norm. A warming planet warms water before it warms land, and the Caribbean is HOT right now, so hot that corals have mostly died off and the rest of the aquatic ecosystem is collapsing. Warm water makes for powerful hurricanes. So yes, the shape of Florid makes it a target, but the bb shots of the past have been replaced with RPGs.

[soandso]

82. That does not lessen this historical fact of terrible storms

with hundreds of ships being sunk and tens of thousands killed.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/tracing-history-united-states-through-history-hurricanes-180975436/

In addition to changes in climate, there are millions more people in hurricane country which makes it all worse.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

84. What makes it better is our awarness, through satellites, prediction, etc.

[soandso]

85. That's true and it's a huge advantage

that people didn't have not even all that long ago.