"400,000 people would've been alive if Trump had just paid attention and tried to follow the plan that we gave him"

[kpete]

Link to tweet

[eppur_se_muova]

1. Thoroughly documented at the time, too. MAGAts didn't care.

It's like the Senator who criticized federal funding for volcano research as "unnecessary", the week before a volcano erupted.

Lots of coverage at https://www.google.com/search?q=Obama+virus+emergency+plan+notebooks+discarded+by+Trump&num=10&uact=5&oq=Obama+virus+emergency+plan+notebooks+discarded+by+Trump links to several news orgs

[musclecar6]

2. Yep

Nobody's gonna tell him what to do especially a black man like Barack. Thank you for the fucking know-it-all, Know nothing asshole that the voters were stupid enough to elect. Some of them are so stupid, they wanna elect him again. They're just as fucked up as he is.

[Bayard]

3. "Somebody competent"

Not someone who tells you to take Ivermectin or inject bleach. We had a losing hand from the start.

[JHB]

4. I'm not sure what the "first time ever" part is about, since this was reported in 2020

Maybe it's Obama openly saying it directly to a crowd, naming names in a stump speech, without it being filtered through general pandemic reporting.

[ProfessorGAC]

5. I Think That's It

It's a well-known fact that they ignored the plan.
But, I don't think Obama ever commented on the situation before. He's taken the gloves off.

[JHB]

6. Let's not forget how Trump pulled federally-funded disease researchers out of China

Last edited Sun Oct 20, 2024, 06:33 PM - Edit history (3)

'Why are we paying for this? Let Chynah pay for it!" All because it was something Obama started, so he HAD to pull the plug.

Fast forward to 2020, he's complaining that China is withholding information.

Would have been nice to have our own boots (or in this case, lab coats) on the ground in Wuhan, able to observe directly and converse with their Chinese colleagues, effectively forming a back-channel for information and not needing to completely rely on Chinese government sources. Would have been really nice, but seeing the value in that was way, WAY beyond Trump's abilities. All he could see is part of the black guy's legacy that he wanted to smash.

[MichMan]

7. I live in Michigan where Gov. Whitmer was in charge during the pandemic

If Trump had done what Obama suggested he do, instead of turning it over to the governors, what would the Federal government have done differently than what Gov. Whitmer did that would have saved lives?

[meadowlander]

10. Not every state was lucky enough to have a Governor Whitmer.

At the federal level, they can use the Defense Production Act to direct manufacturing of masks, ventilators, tests, etc. Trump didn't want more testing because it would have shown more disease and he felt that was bad for his approval rating.

Early and more aggressive CDC testing and targeting lockdowns could have slowed the spread. Encouraging masks would have slowed the spread. Shutting down interstate and international travel would have slowed the spread.

The Governors were constrained in their responses by the Federal response in shutting down super-spreader places of employment like meat packing plants.

They might also have taken earlier, more decisive and more effective measures if they didn't have the Republicans stirring up their base to rebel against it. Remember the kidnapping plot against Governor Whitmer? Wasn't that to do with the Covid lockdowns? Imagine what the Governors could have done if they weren't swimming upstream against the abysmal Federal response and all the propaganda on the right telling people to just take horse dewormer and get back to work.

It may have made less of a difference in Michigan, California and New York but it would have made a hell of a difference in Florida, Texas and Ohio.

[MichMan]

12. I don't see that breakdown in the numbers

Last edited Sun Oct 20, 2024, 02:41 PM - Edit history (2)

California had 2600 deaths per 1 million residents

Texas had 3169

Florida had 4135

NY had 3832

Pennsylvania had 3949

Michigan had 4319

Ohio had 3584

My state, Michigan, was actually higher than the others listed above.

Michigan, California and NY averaged 3583 deaths per million residents, while Florida, Texas, and Ohio averaged 3689. That is only a 3% difference. That may or may not be explained by the higher number of elderly in Florida. One would have thought that states with more stringent lockdowns and restrictions would have had less deaths than those that didn't, but you can't come to that conclusion based on the data.

https://usafacts.org/visualizations/coronavirus-covid-19-spread-map/

[meadowlander]

13. I live in New Zealand.

Per capita deaths were 1,163. In Australia, where they also have two levels of government at federal and state level, they were 937.

A competent national response could have saved 2/3 to 3/4 of the people who died - around 800,000 people.

But sure, keep telling yourself that there's nothing Trump could have done to prevent Covid deaths.

Absolute poppycock and everyone here knows it.

[MichMan]

14. I am asking specifically what the federal government should have done that the state governors failed to do?

Last edited Sun Oct 20, 2024, 06:06 PM - Edit history (1)

The assertion is that a competent president would have taken the power away from the states and applied federal mandates because the state governor responses were weak and ineffective. I asked what Michigan should have done differently, considering we already had some of the most restrictions of any state in the US.
 
I posted hard data that shows there was little difference from one state to another even though they had very different responses. Michigan, with pretty significant shutdowns and restrictions actually had more deaths per capita than Florida and other states that had much less. I can only conclude that all of those things did not make as much of a difference as everyone thought, or the data would show it.

Shutting down all meatpacking plants? There were already food supply issues; what did you want people to eat?

You could be 100% correct that 80% of lives could have been saved, but I would be interested in knowing what would have been done to get there. What specific policies from Australia/New Zealand should have been implemented here?

[meadowlander]

16. I've already answered your questions in 10.

As for state by state comparisons these are skewed by:
- urban versus rural population spread
- when Covid hit them worst and which variant they got (for example, California and New York were hit early with the deadliest strain)
- vaccination rates later in the game
- capacity and functioning in the local hospital system
- willingness to comply with various government mandates
- how deaths were attributed and reported - for example, Florida significantly undercounted deaths attributing them to flu unless there was an affirmative positive Covid test

There's more than enough data out there that shows that government response made a significant difference in death rates. And the countries that were most successful in keeping the death rate down were the ones that were able to make a coordinated response at the national level.

I'd also add that Trump made the states compete with each other for ventilators and said more than once that they were prioritising red states for them.

Government interventions only work up to a point if there is no willingness among the population to cooperate with them. Imagine a world where Trump came out on Day 1 and did nothing other than say "This is serious. We need to put politics aside and listen to the scientists. Stay at home, wear a mask, wash your hands, don't hoard, get vaccinated as soon as you can. We're going to prioritise resources to the states that need them the most."

You know, leadership.

What would those death rates look like then? I can guarantee they'd be a lot lower, regardless of specific actions either the federal or state governments took.

[MichMan]

17. You did say shutting down all interstate roads to any traffic and closing all the meatpacking plants.

Plus more targeted lockdowns. Wonder if those things were in the plan Pres. Obama is referring to?

Seems like that would really impede movement of supplies, stop essential workers getting to work and reduce food supplies, but maybe it would be worth it. Given that there is no Federal police agency other than the FBI, it would still be up to the individual states to enforce it.

Is that what they did in Australia and New Zealand?  

[meadowlander]

18. Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_New_Zealand

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Australia

In New Zealand, we had Level 4 (illegal to leave your house unless you are an essential worker) and Level 3 lockdowns (can only go to the supermarket or for essential tasks unless you are an essential worker) which could be countrywide or for specific areas.

The whole country was in Level 4 lockdown for two months in March/April 2020 and then went to Level 3 until we had 90% vaccination rates (around mid-2021).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_alert_levels_in_New_Zealand

Auckland went into Level 4 lockdowns three more times whenever there was a positive case in the community.

And the economy was fine. We didn't have food shortages. Logistics for essential goods were essential jobs.

[MichMan]

19. The Level 4 protocols are very close to what Gov. Whitmer put in place in Michigan

Adding a Federal mandate across all 50 states wouldn't have changed one thing in Michigan, since we were already doing it. Yet, Michigan had more deaths per capita then Texas, Florida, and Ohio.

Perhaps New Zealand had much better enforcement. Police in Michigan weren't patrolling neighborhoods or roads and arresting people who went outside or broke any of the other rules.

These from your link were all instituted in Michigan.

People must stay at home (in their bubble) other than for essential personal movement.

Safe recreational activity is allowed in local area.

Travel is severely limited.

All gatherings cancelled and all public venues closed.

Businesses closed except for essential services (e.g. supermarkets, pharmacies, clinics, petrol stations) and lifeline utilities.

Educational facilities closed.

Rationing of supplies and requisitioning of facilities possible.

Reprioritisation of healthcare services.

I agree it wasn't adequate. The Level 4 should have remained in place for at least 6 months or longer until there were zero cases.

[keep_left]

8. But of course, Trump knew better than *all* the experts.

And he even used the culture war to discredit some of them.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219586451#post5
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219490808#post5
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219490667#post23

[NameAlreadyTaken]

9. Trump is a mass murderer.

[hay rick]

11. He should be tried as an adult!

[Hekate]

15. He speaks the God's own truth. The book was widely distributed in the govt by Obama, ...

…and what did Trump do? He had them destroyed.

[Emile]

20. I wonder how many were registered republican.