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Bayard

(29,693 posts)
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 08:48 PM Oct 2024

Pastor: If we "publicly execute a few women," false rape allegations would end

Proving once again that patriarchal culture is alive and well in white evangelical churches, Christian pastor Joel Webbon said during a recent sermon that women who falsely accuse men of rape should be murdered by the government. Webbon, pastor of Covenant Bible Church in Georgetown, Texas (not far from Austin), argued that ancient Israeli law mandated this. If you accused someone of a crime, and your allegation was found to be false, you would face whatever punishment the accused would have suffered. If the alleged crime warranted the death penalty, then the lying accuser would be put to death. And it would be done in public. That, he continued, should apply to women who falsely accuse men of rape.

"In Israel, and this should be the law of the land in our country and every country still to this day, this is a timeless principle, a timeless, universal truth," Webbon preached. "If you perjure yourself by bearing false witness accusing somebody else, whatever the penalty would have been for that person had they been found guilty, then that penalty should fall on your head for falsely accusing them. If that were to occur and the just penalties were to be enforced, you, the false accuser, is now put to death," Webbon declared. "And that's a public death. It's a public sentence, publicly carried out, then the citizens of these United States of America, you know what they would do? #MeToo would end real fast. False accusing, playing the victim when you're actually not; you know how to end that real fast? All you have to do is publicly execute a few women who have lied."

Upon hearing the reaction from the congregation, Webbon added in the original sermon, “There are nicer ways to say that… The reason I say things the way I do is because I'm convinced there's not a better way to say it. I think that's precisely the way to say it." Even though Webbon believes rapists should suffer the same fate—state-sponsored execution—you can tell that it’s the women who lie, not the men who actually commit those crimes, that get him more riled up. After Right Wing Watch shared that clip, Webbon responded by basically saying, Yeah, that’s exactly what I meant: “The biblical penalty for rape is death. Therefore, if a woman lies about being raped, the biblical penalty for her is also death.”

There are obviously all kinds of problems with his Christian fantasy here, none of which garnered any bit of thought. The obvious one is that rapists today aren’t put to death. Even if that was the penalty in the Bible, it’s not our law. And conservative Christian pastors, no matter how much they whine about being persecuted, have never spent much time pushing for harsher sentences for men who commit sins. If they did, they might have to say goodbye to a bunch of their religious colleagues and preferred political candidates.


https://www.friendlyatheist.com/p/pastor-if-we-publicly-execute-a-few

47 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Pastor: If we "publicly execute a few women," false rape allegations would end (Original Post) Bayard Oct 2024 OP
If we execute a whole lot of preachers there would be a lot less hate in the world. Autumn Oct 2024 #1
Indeed. B.See Oct 2024 #30
Yes please. kairos12 Oct 2024 #35
Proof Positive That Joel Webbon Is Insane ProfessorGAC Oct 2024 #2
I wonder how many women the good pastor raped? Dave Bowman Oct 2024 #3
I don't think he's a rapper. tavernier Oct 2024 #17
LOL!! chouchou Oct 2024 #20
Oops, I just corrected the typo. Dave Bowman Oct 2024 #38
That was the vert 1st thing I was thinking! /nt sdfernando Oct 2024 #40
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" Retrograde Oct 2024 #4
Yeah, they brought the Woman before Jesus Seinan Sensei Oct 2024 #29
He's emboldened Quiet Em Oct 2024 #5
so he includes trump in his execute for cause list. nt msongs Oct 2024 #6
Ancient Israeli law also called for adulterers to be stoned to death. tanyev Oct 2024 #7
Hmmm Traildogbob Oct 2024 #27
See The Screwfly Solution Easterncedar Oct 2024 #8
If i were prediliclicted to rape.... getagrip_already Oct 2024 #9
Because actually murdering women is sooooo much better. sakabatou Oct 2024 #10
From what cesspool did they dredge up this guy? surfered Oct 2024 #11
sounds like he's about to b named WhiteTara Oct 2024 #12
This cretin and his followers... MrsCheaplaugh Oct 2024 #13
no doubt he's pro-life...... bahboo Oct 2024 #14
Probably also addicted to some kind of porn that his congregation (or all polite society) would look down upon AZJonnie Oct 2024 #23
And did no one walk out ?? ArkansasDemocrat1 Oct 2024 #15
Not a biblical scholar but I'm about to play one on DU AZJonnie Oct 2024 #16
If we execute a few men, rape would end. Wednesdays Oct 2024 #18
I'd say that logically follows based on the assertions previously made AZJonnie Oct 2024 #19
Religion is poison. Sky Jewels Oct 2024 #21
Your replies are always so wise SJ AZJonnie Oct 2024 #25
Thanks! I mostly grew up in the East Bay. Sky Jewels Oct 2024 #41
I suppose we know what TSF will be amplifying next... EarthFirst Oct 2024 #22
What about Trump and the central park 5? TBF Oct 2024 #24
Trump and his magats don't care about that. As far as they're concerned B.See Oct 2024 #32
Is this guy Traildogbob Oct 2024 #26
I'd say "Christian Nationalist Pastor Joel Webbon" pat_k Oct 2024 #28
Exactly. B.See Oct 2024 #31
No we don't LearnedHand Oct 2024 #33
Not so lone. There are many progressive faith communities. pat_k Oct 2024 #34
P.S. We must do that labeling because they fail to label themselves accurately. pat_k Oct 2024 #36
"Christian Nationalism" is rooted in bad theology..... T_i_B Oct 2024 #44
My knowledge of theology is about nil. pat_k Oct 2024 #45
Racist misogynist homophobe gets his jollies from execution fantasies struggle4progress Oct 2024 #37
The man does not know his Bible Tweedy Oct 2024 #39
That's mighty white Christofascist of him. Swede Oct 2024 #42
Rapists today get sentenced to a few hours of community service. Suspended. Hermit-The-Prog Oct 2024 #43
It's never on the men Dem4life1234 Oct 2024 #46
How about we simply deport MAGA idiots and nazi preachers Mysterian Oct 2024 #47

Autumn

(48,962 posts)
1. If we execute a whole lot of preachers there would be a lot less hate in the world.
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 08:52 PM
Oct 2024

Is that applicable?

tavernier

(14,443 posts)
17. I don't think he's a rapper.
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 10:05 PM
Oct 2024


Sorry, I can be a sanctimonious grammar cop at times until I misspell something and slink away in embarrassment.

Retrograde

(11,419 posts)
4. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 08:53 PM
Oct 2024

I seem to recall the guy you claim to worship said that about a woman who transgresses,

Quiet Em

(2,937 posts)
5. He's emboldened
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 08:54 PM
Oct 2024

Trump did this

or at least made it worst and out into the mainstream, because it was always there, just not as much in your face, there.

tanyev

(49,297 posts)
7. Ancient Israeli law also called for adulterers to be stoned to death.
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 08:56 PM
Oct 2024

I assume he's supporting Trump in this election.....???

Traildogbob

(13,018 posts)
27. Hmmm
Sat Oct 26, 2024, 12:05 AM
Oct 2024

Then Natty Yahoo would support his boy Trump to have be stoned to death 3 times.

getagrip_already

(17,802 posts)
9. If i were prediliclicted to rape....
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 09:04 PM
Oct 2024

I would be raising my hands and thanking god for sendimg my savior.

Because every raped man or woman would be petrified to report the crime. Especially if it was date rape, or family rape, or he/she knew the person socially or professionally.

It would be open season on the young, and the employed, and the dating, and the family.

Basically on any man or woman any sick fuck wanted to target. For any reason.

sakabatou

(46,149 posts)
10. Because actually murdering women is sooooo much better.
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 09:07 PM
Oct 2024

Good god these people are insane!

AZJonnie

(3,706 posts)
23. Probably also addicted to some kind of porn that his congregation (or all polite society) would look down upon
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 11:42 PM
Oct 2024

Or perhaps likes to take a 'wide-stance' in airport bathrooms. Cause that's pretty much always the case with these hypocrites, isn't it?

ArkansasDemocrat1

(3,213 posts)
15. And did no one walk out ??
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 09:59 PM
Oct 2024

Fuck all of them who didn't then. They've earned their non-forgiveness.

AZJonnie

(3,706 posts)
16. Not a biblical scholar but I'm about to play one on DU
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 10:02 PM
Oct 2024

Offhand, I'd probably make a wager that to the extent there is any such "death penalty for rape" mentioned in the Bible, it only applies to a man raping a married woman who is not his wife, and that the logic for this penalty is based on the affront visited by the rapist upon the victims husband, not upon the victim herself. But now I'm going to look it up and see if I'm recalling correctly on this. Also, what a fucking dick this guy is

AZJonnie

(3,706 posts)
19. I'd say that logically follows based on the assertions previously made
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 11:36 PM
Oct 2024

by this freaking asshole.

 

Sky Jewels

(9,148 posts)
21. Religion is poison.
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 11:39 PM
Oct 2024

Fuck stupid primitive superstitions/mythologies. Fuck male supremacist Christianity. Magic isn’t real, and neither are god/s or Jesus.

AZJonnie

(3,706 posts)
25. Your replies are always so wise SJ
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 11:52 PM
Oct 2024

I imagine we'd get on well IRL. Are you an East Bay person by chance?

 

Sky Jewels

(9,148 posts)
41. Thanks! I mostly grew up in the East Bay.
Sat Oct 26, 2024, 02:43 AM
Oct 2024

I’ve lived in different parts of the country, but have been in the PNW for many years.

TBF

(36,669 posts)
24. What about Trump and the central park 5?
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 11:44 PM
Oct 2024

The one where Trump accused people - and bought huge ads calling for their executions: Trump took out full-page ads that ran in several New York City newspapers that read in all-caps, “BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY. BRING BACK OUR POLICE!” The folks Trump accused were exonerated in 2002 when DNA evidence linked another person to the crime.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/21/politics/central-park-five-trump-defamation/index.html

B.See

(8,504 posts)
32. Trump and his magats don't care about that. As far as they're concerned
Sat Oct 26, 2024, 12:14 AM
Oct 2024

we ('those people') have the (rummages thru sticky notes) "criminal gene" and therefore are all 'guilty.'

pat_k

(13,376 posts)
28. I'd say "Christian Nationalist Pastor Joel Webbon"
Sat Oct 26, 2024, 12:08 AM
Oct 2024

We need to distinguish Christian faith from Christian Nationalists and Christian Nationalism. We must condemn Christian Nationalism, while being clear that a condemnation of Christian Nationalism is not a condemnation of the Christian Faith.


. . .
Christian Nationalists are more committed to the love of power than the power of love.

And it exposes a lack of faith because the opposite of faith is not doubt. Doubt is a healthy part of any faith.

The opposite of faith is control. When we stop trusting God, when we stop trusting love, we start taking control for ourselves.

Christian Nationalists want to control what we read, who we marry, where we travel, when we have children. They want to control our minds and our bodies.

"O ye of little faith."
. . .


TX State Rep James Talarico is a riveting speaker on the subject



B.See

(8,504 posts)
31. Exactly.
Sat Oct 26, 2024, 12:11 AM
Oct 2024

As far as I'm concerned, so-called 'Christian' Nationalists is just another name for the KLAN. They believe the same kind of sht and think the same way.

LearnedHand

(5,500 posts)
33. No we don't
Sat Oct 26, 2024, 12:23 AM
Oct 2024

As long as the "true" xtians are content to let assholes like this have the loudest microphones, the label fits all, as far as I'm concerned. Where are their loud, unending, PUBLIC denouncements of the xtian nationalists?

I admire Talarico, even though we are on different planets about magical sky beings, but he's a lone voice.

pat_k

(13,376 posts)
34. Not so lone. There are many progressive faith communities.
Sat Oct 26, 2024, 12:29 AM
Oct 2024

And, as far as magical sky beings, I don't think Talarico is on that planet either:

God is so much bigger than our human categories. God is not a Presbyterian. God is not a Christian.

God it not a noun at all.

God is a verb.

God is not a being.

God is being itself.

God is love.

And that's why Jesus is against anything that gets in the way of that love between neighbors, including religion.
. . .

That's why he says sinners will get to the kingdom of heaven before religious people do. Sorry to everyone here. I know you came all this way.

pat_k

(13,376 posts)
36. P.S. We must do that labeling because they fail to label themselves accurately.
Sat Oct 26, 2024, 12:44 AM
Oct 2024

Accurate labels are the start of any debate.

I know Christians of faith who have absolutely no interest in legislating their beliefs who believe liberals hate them. Our failure to be clear that we are condemning Christian Nationalism, not the Christian faith, has alienated people who are actually natural allies.

T_i_B

(14,888 posts)
44. "Christian Nationalism" is rooted in bad theology.....
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:31 AM
Oct 2024

.... leading to horrific politics.

It's actually quite a fringe ideology, heavily disputed even with groups such as Calvinists where it has it's roots. Even if it's adherents are very loud.

And that's before we get to how it's not quite as biblical as it likes to proclaim. See 1 Samuel 8 and the Epistle to the Galatians for examples of this.

And then there's the matter of where it's been tried in history. In Britain we had an experiment with this sort of thing under Oliver Cromwell. And that alone is a very easy rebuttal of what gets termed "Christian Nationalism".

pat_k

(13,376 posts)
45. My knowledge of theology is about nil.
Sun Oct 27, 2024, 03:58 AM
Oct 2024

However, as State Rep. James Talarico sees it, Christian Nationalism and Christian faith are completely incompatible.

. . .
If this was truly a Christian nation, we would love all of our LGBTQ neighbors. If this was truly a Christian nation, we would make sure every child in this state and in this country was housed, fed, clothed, educated, and insured.

If this was truly a Christian nation, we would never make it a Christian nation because we know the table of fellowship is open to everybody, including our Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh, and atheist neighbors.
. . .

The closest thing we have to the kingdom of heaven is a multiracial, multicultural democracy where power is truly shared among all people. Something that's yet to exist in human history.
. . .

When someone asked Jesus to name his most important commandment, he cheats and gives two -- two that he says are related. The first is to love God. The second, he said, "Is like it: love they neighbor as thyself." It's like it because when I recognize the divine image in myself, I can't help but recognize it in my neighbor; whether they're Christian or not, whether they're religious or not. In the Parable of the Good Samaritan, Jesus specifically defines neighbor as someone different from us, racially, economically, politically, religiously. God loves diversity; God loves variety. Just look around this beautiful planet of ours.
. . .

God is so much bigger than our human categories. God is not a Presbyterian. God is not a Christian.

God it not a noun at all.

God is a verb.

God is not a being.

God is being itself.

God is love.

And that's why Jesus is against anything that gets in the way of that love between neighbors, including religion.
. . .

That's why he says sinners will get to the kingdom of heaven before religious people do. Sorry to everyone here. I know you came all this way.
. . .

The kingdom of God inverts the power dynamics of "all the kingdoms in the world."

True strength is vulnerability.

True status is equality.

True wealth is sharing.

And we as Christians are called to realize that kingdom "on earth as it is in heaven," not by force, but by faith.

Jesus asked us to have the faith of a mustard seed, trusting that by living and dying for love we give birth to a better world.

That's not easy to do.
. . .

Christian Nationalists are more committed to the love of power than the power of love.

And it exposes a lack of faith because the opposite of faith is not doubt. Doubt is a healthy part of any faith.

The opposite of faith is control. When we stop trusting God, when we stop trusting love, we start taking control for ourselves.

Christian Nationalists want to control what we read, who we marry, where we travel, when we have children. They want to control our minds and our bodies.

"O ye of little faith."
. . .


Tweedy

(1,284 posts)
39. The man does not know his Bible
Sat Oct 26, 2024, 01:08 AM
Oct 2024

King David’s response on the discovery his daughter, Tamar, was brutally raped by her half brother was to suggest their marriage. When David’s son said no, the King’s response was meh.

His son, Absolom, was so incensed by this brutal rape, he murdered the rapist, then rose up and temporarily overthrew his father’s reign. For this crime, David’s general, Joab, stabbed Absolom in the third rib.

There was not any expectation that King David would punish Ammon the rapist with anything, much less death.

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