If Garland won't secure the ballot boxes Biden MUST! The burnings are escalating

[Iwasthere]

Makes me sick to my stomach. Democracy is under attack, by extreme tRump magats. Guard every Damn box if nessassary. Use your new powers President Biden. Embarrass Merrick Garland

[SouthernCal_Dem]

1. I hate to say this, but I think he needs to fire Garland

Lisa Monaco is more than capable of doing the job.

[TwilightZone]

5. And what would she have done to prevent these fires?

[SouthernCal_Dem]

7. Law enforcement is about more than just enforcement

It's also about deterrence. Right now the right wing ain't deterred by Garland. They think he's weak and are taking full advantage.

[TwilightZone]

12. Oh, please.

You think some idiot wouldn't have set boxes on fire if Garland wasn't AG?

That assertion is hilariously ridiculous. Yes, as we all know, right-wing hate started when Garland became AG. It never happened before, and it'll stop immediately when he's no longer there.

[Meadowoak]

34. Are there not any security cameras on these ballot

Boxes,? I would think that would be a very serious crime.

[TwilightZone]

100. What about mailboxes?

We need to protect mail-in ballots, after all. Is every mailbox under constant surveillance/protection?

Of course, the answer is almost certainly no. The expectation that we can protect every access point 24/7 is unrealistic and placing the blame on Garland for it not already being the case is silly.

[thatdemguy]

129. Remember the pugs where the ones that wanted cameras

Before, their groups where calling for for fraud reasons. Funny how fast sides change. https://www.wired.com/story/election-deniers-livestream-voting-dropbox-wisconsin/

[msfiddlestix]

162. ballot box near ,my home is secure, tamper proof and with cameras.

I had speculated that the Huntington Beach arson episode back in 2020 spurred action to heighten security on all of California's ballot boxes.

I think this is the case, but don't really know if it's statewide.

[Meadowoak]

37. Absolutely

[edisdead]

55. Police do not deter crimes.

[Cirsium]

94. Prosecution

Prosecution does. Law enforcement is not only about police.

[rampartd]

154. they think our system is weak

and they appear to be correct.

fire garland and we will NOT get a replacement confirmed.

[Cirsium]

22. That is absurd

What can be done to prevent any crime? Enforce the law, set an example.

[TwilightZone]

35. In election matters, that's up to state and local officials.

Perhaps your ire should be directed at them.

[Cirsium]

65. Where all does that apply?

Roe v. Wade? Brown v. BOE? Voter rights in the South? The secession crisis? Clean air and water?

There are those who want or wanted all of those to be left "up to the states." Should we have directed our ire at the states in those cases? Is there not a role for the federal government to play in order to protect all of the citizens rights when the state fails to do so?

[LeftInTX]

67. This is happening in blue states too.

And how many years did those court cases take?

[Cirsium]

74. Right

How is that relevant?

I am not suggesting court cases as a remedy, I am citing those situations and issues to support my argument that the federal government can and should intervene to protect the ballots - everywhere.

[orthoclad]

13. Hell, Gilligan is more capable.

[Meadowoak]

28. Yes, fire his sorry ass.

[LiberalFighter]

56. With three months to go?

Get VP Harris elected and there will be a a new one.

[SouthernCal_Dem]

61. You're probably right. Not a good look to do it now.

Probably better to wait. I'm just venting my frustration.

[Scrivener7]

2. Those fuckers. Empty those things out now, and every hour from now to election day.

Because Garland's not going to do a damn thing.

[BidenRocks]

33. States control the boxes

Not the feds unless, like postal theft, the FBI will be involved.
States rights! Where have we heard that before?

[TwilightZone]

3. Biden doesn't have any new powers.

The immunity decision is the most misunderstood decision in recent memory.

Also, what exactly do you expect Garland to do? Station someone 24/7 at every box?

For that matter, what do you expect Biden to do?

[Iwasthere]

10. I expect both Bidend and Garland to protect our Fuck!ng vote, that's what

You know damn well if it were tRump in office he'd use the new immunity and absolutely get away with it. Even though that's not how the immunity ruling works I realize. Doesn't matter to them. They don't fight fair, and we do.

[TwilightZone]

19. We shouldn't use Trump's behavior as the basis for our own.

If it's inherently wrong when Trump does it, it's not magically OK if Biden does.

Plus, I'm not sure what you think Trump would have done. What "new" powers do you think he has that would have magically stopped some idiot from setting fire to a box?

This place just makes me laugh sometimes.

[Iwasthere]

31. It is our very precious vote that's at stake, Jesus! protect it

At least have national warning stating the gravity of the crimes, And the consequences.
Nice guys finish last

[Lulu KC]

78. OK, but how?

I'm not seeing what your logistical plan is here.

[Cirsium]

91. Logistical plan???

So we can't call for justice until we have a logistical plan?

That argument has been used against every progressive movement throughout history.

[Lulu KC]

108. No movement

Progressive or not, has ever worked without a plan, to my knowledge. But you must know something I don't know so I'll just keep an eye on this and see where it goes. Good luck.

[Iwasthere]

115. Or you could help with a plan

That's all I'm suggesting. That we all group think, think outside the box. If we wait for the states to act we are liable to be disappointed, imo

[Lulu KC]

141. I know my strengths and this isn't one of them

I cannot envision the logistics. I believe they have to be there to make it happen, but that's not my area of expertise.

I trust most members of the Biden administration and if there is a logically possible plan, I believe that he will assign a very smart team to figure it out. But that's just me.

[Iwasthere]

51. I'm sorry, these recent events are in my backyard

I live just South of Portland. I realize I'm being emotional, but I know, and so do you, that they don't fight fair. We should think outside the box, EVERYTHING is at stake, imo.

[Cirsium]

146. Amen

People are underestimating the danger.

[Ilikepurple]

161. I'm glad we humor you

[Cirsium]

23. You have to be kidding

There is an ongoing assault against our country.

Of course we look to the federal government and the current administration for protection from terrorists.

[Dock_Yard]

113. Do you NOT understand the 10th Amendment???

Everything you have scattered across this thread convinces us you don't.

The Federal government cannot step in and do anything about laws and proceedings administered by the States.

Please stop littering your exaggerated panic all over this thread.

[Iwasthere]

120. Okay so we'll just accept the burnings then

... without a fight? This is one time, imo, THAT WE NEED TO PANIC! The copycat burners will be coming out of the wood work , at least a national warning on the gravity and consequences.

[Dock_Yard]

125. I didn't go there. You digressed into exaggeration and tangents.

Back to the issue.

IF (big if) it becomes widespread, the STATE(s) involved will act.

[Cirsium]

150. OK

That is big with the right wingers. They love to cite the 10th amendment. States rights. Where does that end? Now we have the "sovereign sheriff" nonsense. Anything to overturn the results of the Civil War.

It is hard or me to grasp that people are being encouraged to sabotage the ballot, and it is actually happening, and Democrats here are talking state's rights.

Additional applicable federal law:

Title 18, U.S.C., Section 241 - Conspiracy Against Rights

This statute makes it unlawful for two or more persons to conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person of any state, territory or district in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him/her by the Constitution or the laws of the United States, (or because of his/her having exercised the same).


Title 18, U.S.C., Section 245 - Federally Protected Activities

1) This statute prohibits willful injury, intimidation, or interference, or attempt to do so, by force or threat of force of any person or class of persons because of their activity as:

a. A voter, or person qualifying to vote...;

b. a participant in any benefit, service, privilege, program, facility, or activity provided or administered by the United States;

c. an applicant for federal employment or an employee by the federal government;

d. a juror or prospective juror in federal court; and

e. a participant in any program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance.

2) Prohibits willful injury, intimidation, or interference or attempt to do so, by force or threat of force of any person because of race, color, religion, or national origin and because of his/her activity as:

a. A student or applicant for admission to any public school or public college;

b. a participant in any benefit, service, privilege, program, facility, or activity provided or administered by a state or local government;

c. an applicant for private or state employment, private or state employee; a member or applicant for membership in any labor organization or hiring hall; or an applicant for employment through any employment agency, labor organization or hiring hall;

d. a juror or prospective juror in state court;

e. a traveler or user of any facility of interstate commerce or common carrier; or

f. a patron of any public accommodation, including hotels, motels, restaurants, lunchrooms, bars, gas stations, theaters...or any other establishment which serves the public and which is principally engaged in selling food or beverages for consumption on the premises.

3) Prohibits interference by force or threat of force against any person because he/she is or has been, or in order to intimidate such person or any other person or class of persons from participating or affording others the opportunity or protection to so participate, or lawfully aiding or encouraging other persons to participate in any of the benefits or activities listed in items (1) and (2), above without discrimination as to race, color, religion, or national origin.

[Meadowoak]

48. I would have a half dozen security cameras covering each and

Every one of these ballot boxes. Video tape of anyone attempting to tamper with one of these boxes should be aired on every news channel in the state, offering a reward if $10k for info leading to arrest and conviction of the rat fuckers that did this.

[thatdemguy]

132. Thats what the repugs wanted before

And we called them election deniers. I know its for a different reason but maybe cameras are needed, public access ones. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/12/eric-hovde-ballot-drop-boxes-wisconsin/

[Farmgirl1961]

4. Yes, I'm afraid this is only going to get worse and more widespread as we get closer to the election

Anything they can do to sow chaos, disenfranchise voters, create confusion -- it's the only hope they have to try to steal the election. Yep. Every damn ballot box needs to be guarded.

[Ocelot II]

6. This is up to local law enforcement, not DoJ.

The management of state elections is delegated to the states. Seems to me that all ballot drop boxes should be in places where there are security cameras, at a minimum.

[Cirsium]

26. Up to the states?

Up to the states? Like reproductive health care? Like it was in 1860? Just like it was in the South after Brown v. Board of Education?

A federal election is imperiled. Protecting it is the proper role of the federal government. This is an emergency.

[TwilightZone]

32. Elections are regulated and administered by the states.

We should really know that by now. They were delegated that responsibility in that pesky Constitution.

[Cirsium]

49. Equal protection under the law

Equal protection under the law is guaranteed by the federal government. We should really know that by now. A Civil War was fought over that question.

[LeftInTX]

60. Well then every single criminal case should be federal

Every police officer should be a federal agent. Because "equal protection" is federal responsibility. Replace all local police with FBI to assure that anyone arrested is arrested only be federal agents, so that everything us "equal".
Traffic cops should also be federalized because those also aren't treated equally.

Heck federalize code compliance and dog catchers. Much of that is also not equal.

[onenote]

76. Pretty sure you don't understand the equal protection clause and how and when it is applied.

[Cirsium]

88. That is silly

The right wingers are using it for all sorts of things. "How and when it is applied" is not very useful.

Pretty sure I do know what I am talking about here. I am advocating here against the "state's rights" position on this issue. There was a time when slavery was a matter of state's rights.

[onenote]

96. I'd love to hear your explanation of how the equal protection clause is violated by the destruction of a ballot box?

The equal protection clause applies to governmental action. So in effect you are arguing that the state or federal government violates the equal protection clause when it doesn't prevent a ballot box from being destroyed. I'm curious where the unequal treatment comes into play. Maybe if the government only protected some ballot boxes but not others, but even that would be a tricky case.

Please educate me on your understanding of the equal protection clause.

[Cirsium]

151. No

I am arguing that the feds could intervene to protect the ballot.

[onenote]

167. No? You've repeatedly cited the equal protection clause as the basis for federal intervention.

[Ocelot II]

39. I don't disagree but the federal government has limited power

over states' election procedures. It would fall to the state and local officials to ensure the security of these dropboxes. Interfering with or damaging the boxes or ballots might be a federal offense if someone is arrested, but the requirement to safeguard the ballots is a state function.

[Cirsium]

53. Safeguarding the rights of the citizens

Safeguarding the rights of the citizens when the states fail to do so is the role of the federal government.

[Ocelot II]

87. So write to DoJ and tell them to get their asses to Portland to guard ballot dropboxes.

[Cirsium]

89. Sure

I thought I would start here, though. Surprised at the opposition I am running into.

[Ocelot II]

95. It's not a matter of opposition at all. It's just that your understanding of the extent

and limits of federal power isn't accurate.

[Iwasthere]

123. Me too

All I hear in here is how "There's nothing we can do, it's up to the states" BS!!! Let's group think, JESUS!!! What is the role of DU?

[Lulu KC]

142. Nobody's opposing anything

It is not clear WHAT or HOW you want this to happen. That would affect who would be involved etc.

Nobody here doesn't think this is a big problem. Please don't turn this into how oblivious everyone else is.

[LeftInTX]

93. This thread! I think he should charter a jet to DC

Writing takes too long!
Heck head on over to SpaceX and ask Musk for a rocket ride!

[Ocelot II]

92. Please cite the specific statutory authority that gives DoJ the power

to guard a municipality's ballot dropboxes. The role of the federal government is a lot more limited than you seem to think it is.

[Cirsium]

153. Maybe

The federal government's powers are limited to the extent that the right wingers are able to cripple it.

The National Guard is deployed in all sorts of situations to protect the public and for other reasons. The National Guard was deployed to protect the Lincoln Memorial during the Black Lives Matter protests in the spring of 2020.

[Ocelot II]

155. The National Guard is under the control of state governors.

In a few special, rare circumstances it can be federalized; otherwise it's a state-controlled entity. Only the DC National Guard is solely under federal control, because DC is a federal enclave.

[Cirsium]

156. Yes, of course

This is a special rare circumstance.

[LakeArenal]

90. No one could stop state gerrymandering.

Even tho it’s against the law to inhibit voting.

I’m not sure what you think can be done a week from the election.

[muriel_volestrangler]

98. Yes, it's up to the states. They, and only they, have the number of personnel necessary

and it frankly has sod all to do with Garland. It's a police matter, or the national guards.

[Iwasthere]

124. So let's all just throw up our arms

... nothing we can do

[muriel_volestrangler]

127. There's plenty you can do. You can demand your state guards ballot boxes

seeing as how setting fire to them would break a state law. That would be far more productive than pretending Garland has the operational responsibility or capability of guarding ballot boxes throughout the USA.

[Dock_Yard]

131. IT IS GETTING DONE by local L/E - see link

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219620567

[Cirsium]

157. Oh great

Maybe the local "sovereign sheriff" will handle it.

It is a nationwide conspiracy, a coordinated ongoing reign of terror. Local law enforcement is not reliable and it is not a local problem., it is a national problem. I say we need a strong federal response. YMMV

[Bev54]

52. It is an argument that the crowd here doesn't want to hear

Facts be damned, Garland is responsible for every crime ever committed.

[LeftInTX]

69. Nah..He's responsible for roller rinks.

Someone might slip and fall!

[sarisataka]

8. New powers?

Does Biden have some kind of anti-fire superpower that he can use to protect the boxes?

[sarisataka]

21. That would be an option

Should Biden order snipers to observe the boxes 24/7?

[bucolic_frolic]

24. The boxes should be indoors, collected every day, have observers present, &

closed when the building locks up for the night. Leaving them unattended is nuts.

[sarisataka]

27. Indoor boxes do make sense, but isn't that decision up to local election officials?

It seems strange to be laying this at the feet of Biden.

[bucolic_frolic]

45. I didn't mention Biden, you did.

Security personnel, armed guards, are not snipers. State and county officials probably have some discretion in securing ballot boxes.

[sarisataka]

50. I mentioned Biden because the OP did

Armed guards could be assigned locally, though I could see that leading to claims of voter intimidation...

[BlueCheeseAgain]

38. When GOP officials tried to do that, we rightfully called it voter suppression.

The great thing about drop boxes is that they're available all the time, not just when people are at work.

[LeftInTX]

75. But we need the feds and BOP!

Sarcasm

We do have guards at our polling sites. They are under the guise of traffic and fight prevention etc.

[Eko]

42. Shooting on sight?

You are talking about execution without a trial. WTF.

[bucolic_frolic]

47. It's sometimes an option in riots and looting. Not often used in the US.

To add, arson of a ballot box in a presidential election is an attack on the sovereignty of the U.S. of A.

It could lead these MAGAloons to claim standing in a legal case to invalidate the election.

This is serious stuff. Not like stealing a loaf of bread.

[Eko]

57. I dont care if it is sometimes an option

I still cant believe someone on here called for it.

[Think. Again.]

18. Biden now has immunity from prosecution for any....

....illegal act he commits if he considers that act to be in furtherance of his Presidential duties.

In other words, he COULD hire hit men to shoot anyone messing with a ballot box, as long as he believes that protecting each and every vote falls under his Oath of Office or his understanding of his Presidential responsibilities.

The immunity ruling must be overturned.

[sarisataka]

20. Since it is the OP calling for use of these "powers"

should the comment directed towards them?

[Think. Again.]

112. You seemed to be genuinely perplexed...

...by the suggestion that the President had recently been allowed expanded abilities to act in their professional capacity, so I just thought I would try to explain a little bit.

[sarisataka]

114. I would have been perplexed in Biden had superpowers

as to the powers Presidential authority, I have no illusions that they are indeed limited.

[Think. Again.]

121. Yes, he's the only person on the planet not accountable to any U.S. law...

...I agree that can be reasonably be considered a "super" power.

[sarisataka]

126. Well if he isn't accountable we have nothing to fear

Regardless of the result of the election and EC vote, all he has to do is proclaim Kamala the next King President and all is good. Is that how immunity works?

[Think. Again.]

134. No, it isn't, he is immune to prosecution from breaking laws...

...say, someone that a sitting President doesn't like wins an election, the sitting President could murder them, and their successor, until that sitting President is satisfied with the new President, and then claim he believed the murders were necessary to "faithfully execute the office of President."

The immunity ruling must be overturned.

[sarisataka]

138. Overturning the election would "faithfully execute the office of President."

He declares Trump/Vance are unfit as they would use the office to institute tyranny, therefore they are disqualified. The candidate with the second most EC votes is therefore President.

If we are worried about Congress, just send it to the HoR and Senate after the disqualification. Harris and Walz are the only remaining eligible candidates.

Easy peasy.

[Think. Again.]

140. Yes, but simply claiming candidates are disqualified doesn't break any written laws...

...in order to be "allowed" to do it, he would have to use his immunity to break a law and just not be prosecuted for it.

The more blatantly illegal the act is, the cleaner his immunity claim is that he can indeed do it because it is illegal.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

173. Why are you saying that?

Is the atmosphere not stressful enough?

Your scenario is NOT TRUE.

[Think. Again.]

174. I have been trying to point out how dangerous this ruling is since it came down...

...can you explain to me how it isn't true?

(I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm trying to understand how best to fight for this ruling to be overturned.)

[Cirsium]

30. Yes

Yes, the federal government absolutely has the power to protect our ballots. No question.

[sarisataka]

40. How?

Let's ignore the possible conflict of Federal/state law for the moment. What realistic action can Biden take to secure the ballot boxes?

[Cirsium]

159. There are often state/federal conflicts

State/federal conflicts are just about inevitable, and have been since the founding of the country. Where the line is drawn is not etched in stone, it varies over time in response to public demand. The most reactionary forces in society are usually on the "states rights" side of this debate, as often as not to enforce white supremacy.

Hold a press conferees spelling the problem out, detailing the threat and committing the government to protecting us. Use the bully pulpit! Cooperate and coordinate with state and local law enforcement. Provide funding for more security measures. Deploy the National Guard.

In other words, the same steps that are taken in any national emergency.

But it is not our job to come up with a plan. It is our job to advocate or an appeal to the federal government for relief, as always when we are threatened by the white supremacists. That starts with conversations exactly like the one we are having here.

[Think. Again.]

9. garland can't be embarrassed...

....he obviously has no shame.

[TwilightZone]

25. Elections are the responsibility of state and local officials.

We should probably know that by now.

I find it hilarious that everyone wants to blame this on Garland. We've completely lost all ability to think critically where he is concerned. Every response is like a synapse firing.

[Cirsium]

36. Equal protection

Equal protection under the law is the business of the federal government and supersedes "state's rights." I thought that was long settled. If the terrorist threats and actions from the MAGA mob are not an ongoing serious violation of the civil rights of millions of Americans, I don't know what would be.

[TwilightZone]

46. Nope.

States have wide discretion to administer elections and everything related to them. Everyone knows that. The decision to place ballot boxes was not made by DOJ. It was made by state and local officials, as is the case in every state in the country.

If you want to complain, complain to officials in Oregon. Intentional ignorance is not a compelling argument.

[Cirsium]

70. Yep

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Certainly protection of our ballots is covered there. Your logic would allow the "alternate electors" scheme of the MAGAs to proceed without federal interference.

You are characterizing a call for federal protection of the right to vote "complaining" and then lecture us as to where to address this complaint?

[TwilightZone]

103. You clearly have no idea what equal protection is or what it applies to.

Hint: it's not this.

[Cirsium]

170. Thanks

You have not to my satisfaction made a persuasive case yet.

[Think. Again.]

117. The deterence and prosecution of federal crimes such as election interference...

...is the responsibility of the doj.

I find it sad Americans aren't more concerned about the security of our elections, but I will refrain from snide comments.

[Cirsium]

158. Surprised me

I didn't think there would be any controversy about this. Very strange.

[Mysterian]

165. Deprivation of civil rights is federal business

Voting is a fundamental, protected right.

[bucolic_frolic]

11. Here in PA our boxes are inside buildings

There are security personnel at the boxes to make sure each person drops his own ballot only. The ballots are, I assume, collected each day. I dropped mine in the morning and 24 hours later got an email it was received. Seems pretty air tight.

Putting boxes where criminals can access them is not very bright.

[ecstatic]

14. insane! Hopefully there's an immediate response and plan

for how to ensure votes are not lost again. What a mess!

[MineralMan]

15. Elections are run by local governments, not the federal government.

Local government have police forces. They can protect those boxes, if they choose to do so. They should so choose.

[Cirsium]

41. "Should so choose"

When the civil rights and equal protection under the law are threatened by what this or that state "chooses" to do, we look to the federal government for relief. That is long established. 600,00 young men died to establish that.

[Iwasthere]

63. We should all think outside the box on this

Most states aren't going to do a thing. Something can be done on a national level or we are very possibly doomed. You know very well these burnings and similar tactics will escalate across the country over the next week, are we supposed to just throw up our arms, give up? What is the purpose of DU? Now is the time, imo

[LeftInTX]

66. The purpose of DU is to hound and mob Garland

Or we could start a posse

[TwilightZone]

107. What do you think should be done?

Don't forget about mailboxes. They are used for mail-in ballots, and there are 140,000 of them.

Should we place an armed guard at all 140,000 for the duration? I guarantee that many, if not most, jurisdictions won't have the manpower to do so, especially in small towns or rural areas.

Expecting to be able to deter every random yahoo who wants to set fire to something is simply not realistic. Acknowledging that is not throwing up our arms. It's accepting reality. Some people just suck, and we can't stop them all 100% of the time.

[Iwasthere]

128. Not all boxes aren't secure

But yes, armed guards on the 100,000 boxes that are not secured, absolutely!

[orthoclad]

16. Biden's failure to act, re: Garland, endangers us all

Serious question: why didn't he fire Garland years ago?

Is it too late now to make a difference?

[senseandsensibility]

29. Has Garland even released a statement?

Not a huge Garland basher, but he does seem to be very slow to react to things.

[LAS14]

43. What do people think Garland or Biden could do about state controlled ballot boxes????????????????? nt

[LeftInTX]

44. Federal agents at every ballot box 24/7 in the country?

It really is up to local authorities to secure their elections. Seriously, it is because they run elections.
FBI agents at every polling spot?
BOP troops deployed?

[Meadowoak]

62. Put the dang things inside the police station lobby

The could be accessed 24 hrs per day. And would be about as secure as could be.

[LeftInTX]

64. Or have local cops guard them?

Each of our polling sites have numerous security.

[TwilightZone]

72. That could probably be construed as voter intimidation.

The GOP used to set up police checkpoints near polling places in heavily-minority districts as a way of intimidating voters. This isn't the same thing, of course, but I could see, well, overzealous law enforcement officers in those areas causing some consternation amongst minority voters.

[elleng]

81. Kind of burdensome/cumbersome, eh?

[LeftInTX]

83. Local surveillance will suffice

[Eko]

54. For everyone here to get a clear picture of what federal and state LE are doing about this.

The last ballot pickup at the transit center drop box was at 11 a.m. Saturday, Kimsey said. Anyone who dropped their ballot there after that was urged to contact the auditor’s office to obtain a new one.

The office will be increasing how frequently it collects ballots, Kimsey said, and changing collection times to the evening, to keep the ballot boxes from remaining full of ballots overnight when similar crimes are considered more likely to occur.

In a statement, the FBI said it is coordinating with federal, state and local partners to actively investigate the two incidents. Anyone with information is asked to contact the nearest FBI office,

https://apnews.com/article/vote-ballot-drop-box-democracy-fire-f66c52f774955106fb9e7c8172825cff

Washington is also going to put overnight law enforcement at the drop boxes per the article.

[LuvLoogie]

58. The vote is a contract with the people for a peaceful society.

MAGA is escalating its war on us. They know they are losing in democracy, so they are opting out.

[kentuck]

59. The vote is being sabotaged now.

We don't have to wait until January 6.

[jalan48]

68. It looks like it's every man/woman for themselves folks. Good luck!

[keithbvadu2]

71. Are Trump/Vance condemning it?

[Blue Owl]

73. Merrick Garland might as well just go clutch Susan Collin's pearls

Their patriotic fervor is pretty much an empty gesture

[Cirsium]

77. Defending Garland

I only wish, and would have expected, that people would be as militant about defending the ballot as they are about defending Merrick Garland.

The ballot is under much greater and more serious attack than Garland is, and the consequences are much more severe.

[sarisataka]

80. Still waiting on the action you want to see

as I asked above
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219619939#post40

[Cirsium]

102. The wait is over

I think a press conference would be the first step, communicating to the public the seriousness of the situation and expressing the determination of the DOJ to stop it, similar to what was done in the Civil Rights era. Ultimately, the National Guard can be used to protect drop boxes and mail boxes.

But we are not required to come up with some detailed plan before we can speak out about the problem.

[sarisataka]

110. I suppose he could do a news conference

but I strongly suspect the perpetrators know what they are doing is illegal.

Should the NG be called by the state governors or should Biden Federalize them to provide this protection, I assume the latter.
Couldn't the presence of military personnel at voting places (armed?) be seen as voter intimidation?

[Iwasthere]

136. If it was plasteted on every outlet of a $250,000 fine and a potentional 10 year jail stint

[sarisataka]

139. Is that the current law for election interference?

I assume he cannot legislate by fiat.

[Cirsium]

169. Good point

The presence of military personnel at voting places could be seen as voter intimidation? But by whom?

When President Dwight D. Eisenhower placed the Arkansas National Guard under federal control and sent 1,000 U.S. Army paratroopers from the 101st Airborne Division to assist them in ensuring that the mob did not interfere with school desegregation, who saw those troops as intimidation? The KKK did, the racist mob did, the segregationists did.

This isn't about legalities, it is about the will to do the right thing. There is an ongoing cold civil war. You can't abide by the rules of badminton when the other side is throwing hand grenades.

“Are all the laws but one to go unexecuted, and the Government itself go to pieces lest that one be violated? Even in such a case, would not the official oath be broken if the Government should be overthrown when it was believed that disregarding the single law would tend to preserve it?” - Lincoln in response to Taney's position on Habeas Corpus.

Of course this should not be take lightly. I one believes, as I do, that the country is in great danger, then they will likely consider my argument. If they do not think the country is in great danger the they will rightly disagree with me.

I also think that one's background and social status and perhaps race can be factors in how people see this. Left to the states, millions would have remained in bondage the and segregation would be the law today.

[TwilightZone]

85. No one is defending Garland.

Stating that he's not responsible for where boxes are placed isn't defending him. It's a fact.

The responsibility for that lies with state and local officials. Period. As I suspect you're fully aware.

You can continue to assert otherwise, but it doesn't make your assertions any more accurate. Blaming this on Garland is laughably ridiculous.

[Cirsium]

171. Not what I see

People have most certainly been defending Garland.

[Iwasthere]

130. Exactly

The airwaves should be blasted with a warning from DOJ, TODAY°

[Lulu KC]

143. Oh, yeah, that'll stop them

Who do you think is doing this? The employees who DO wash their hands before they leave the restroom?

[Sky Jewels]

163. I will never understand the Garland defenders.

He has proven to be one of the worst Democratic-appointed AGs in our nation's history. He is Biden's Biggest Blunder, in my opinion.

[elleng]

79. 'Nice' talk, that the President should 'embarass' the Attorrney General,

by 'guarding' every official ballot box.

[Hope22]

82. The best solution to dumpster fires is to stop putting your ballots in them.

Twice a year make a plan to drop your ballot off in the BOE office. Don’t trust the USPS or an unguarded dumpster. Other options are to vote in person early or on Election Day. Treat your ballot like a loved one and don’t leave it unattended.

[Tree Lady]

148. I live in a all mail state and

don't trust usps anymore thats why I go to ballot box. There was a sign at box that said cameras watching, hope so!

[Hope22]

164. That's good.

It’s so hard to believe how crazy things have gotten. Our SOS has made it harder and harder to get the ballots in. Truly unbelievable! In addition to this when petitions are turned in with collected signatures for issues to be added to the ballot he manipulates the verbiage on the ballots to suit the R’s. Also when we passed a women’s reproductive bill last Fall he delayed implementing the change to the Constitution that the people voted for. It is getting very hard to get justice around here. Take care!💗

[3825-87867]

84. Uh, LBJ - Selma

National Guard?
They're getting paid to serve. Let them. Call it whatever you want - training - exercises whatever. Biden certainly has the power to do that.

[onenote]

86. What about USPS mail boxes which are used for mail-in ballots?

Should Garland and/or Biden be doing something to protect them? And what would the be? There are nearly 140,000 such mailboxes in the US. Most if not all are solidly affixed to the ground so they can't be moved inside at night.

[TwilightZone]

97. Had the same thought.

The assertion that we should be able to fully secure every possible access point in the mail-in/drop-off process is completely unrealistic in the first place, much less demanding that Garland should be the one responsible for doing so.

[Rebl2]

99. Only put

Ballot into indoor mail boxes and drop off so it is picked up the same day you drop it in the box. Yes I know it means getting out of your car and going in to the building to drop it in the mail slot, but isn’t it worth it to take the extra precaution?

[LeftInTX]

101. Hey I have a rickety mailbox on front of my house

If I can't drive to the PO Box, it needs a federal agent guarding it 24/7

[Lulu KC]

144. And a mail carrier was caught dumping mail

including absentee ballots into a wooded area within the last 24 hours. I saw that either on DU, WaPo, or NYT. So don't forget to have a National Guard person in every mail truck. And P.S. Do we think every police person and NG person wants our side to win and will help us?

WHAT WOULD WORK? I do not know. If I did, I'd tell you.

[Ilikepurple]

160. Should we have stop lights at every intersection?

I think some come here to practice rhetoric and win arguments rather than further any cause other than their own misguided pedagogy.

[mucifer]

104. They are saying the FBI is investigating now

[Tree Lady]

149. Wow we can trust that

just like they investigated Kavanaugh.

[Silent Type]

105. Rememeber when we called it "election interference" when some states enacted laws that ballot boxes had to be

secured either by 24/7 by survelliance cameras or inside election offices and only available when employees were present. Guess it makes sense now.

Hope they catch these criminals quickly.

[TwilightZone]

116. Nah, it still doesn't make sense.

Ease of voting should be a primary consideration. Limiting it because some yahoo set fire to a ballot box is not justification for limiting access. That is not to say that improvements can't be made.

However, if we're expecting that all access points in the election process will be 100% secure 100% of the time, that simply isn't realistic.

For one, there are 140,000 outdoor mailboxes across the country. It's going to be pretty hard to keep people from using any of those for mail-in ballots.

Or from setting them on fire.

[Silent Type]

119. Ballot boxes are more secure than blue mail boxes. I think this kind of terrorism will get worse, so ballot boxes

probably need to be secured, at least put under survelliance. Wish it were not so, but that's what we've become.

[TwilightZone]

135. Oregon is a 100% mail-in state.

In the context of what's being asked for in this thread, it makes little difference if ballot drop-off boxes are more secure than outdoor mailboxes when ballots are still going through the latter. Arson dude just changes his target. The only difference is that one method is more likely to have ballots in it.

The argument that the process should be made 100% secure, as many are demanding in this thread, is unsupportable. It's logistically impossible unless outdoor mailboxes are removed from the equation.

As I said in other responses, this is not to say that improvements in the process cannot be made. They clearly can. And I'm not saying we shouldn't make ballot drop-offs more secure, because that's obvious.

But if the expectation is that Garland (ignoring for the sake of argument that it's a state/local responsibility and not DOJ's) should be able to guarantee that this will never happen under any circumstances, that's simply ignoring reality.

[Tree Lady]

147. I live in Oregon turned my ballot

in Friday and there was a sign that said cameras watching, I hope its true.

But I'm in a red city so probably saver.

[Emile]

106. I sure as hell won't defend Garland. It shouldn't take

over four years to prosecute a traitor who orchestrated an insurrection to overthrow our government. All of this could have been avoided if the traitor was arrested and behind bars.

[TwilightZone]

111. That has nothing to do with the OP.

But you did get to take a shot at Garland, which I think was the whole point of the OP anyway.

"All of this could have been avoided if the traitor was arrested and behind bars."

Right, stuff like this never happened before Garland and/or Trump and it'll stop immediately when Garland is fired/retires and/or Trump is put behind bars.

[PurgedVoter]

109. The attack on the election system is proof they know they are losing.

Take this as a drunken idiot argument since I have not strongly thought this one through, but I think that using a few of the financial methods to treat domestic terrorists the way we treated right wing Islamic organizations during the Bush years might be a decent direction to go. They siphoned off all the money from donors to terrorist organizations and made it hard for them to deal with banks. Having a few oligarchs suddenly become broke might reduce a lot of our domestic terrorism quick. If it was used to repair and improve Social Security, it would be double justice.

[miyazaki]

118. Well to be sure, if The Orange Menace prevails, it'll be taken care of.

[Prairie_Seagull]

122. With this issue? With few days left.

There needs to be an appearance, at least, that action is being taken.

[Dock_Yard]

133. And there IS!!!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219620567

[TwilightZone]

137. Action is being taken.

State, and local authorities were investigating as soon as they became aware of the fires, and the FBI is now part of the investigation. This has been widely reported.

[Jmb 4 Harris-Walz]

145. IMO the Governors in each state should develop a plan to guard the ballot boxes... there are several ways this could be

done…

1) Governors could activate the National Guard and station them near the boxes. This would be labor intensive, but could be mitigated by the advising that the guardsmen would be stationed inconspicuously so that one person could monitor multiple boxes because nobody will know that all boxes aren’t individually monitored.

2) The Governors could ask individual citizens to volunteer to monitor boxes. They would only be asked to park in sight of the box being monitored and when something suspicious happens to call the police to take it from there.

3) The Governors could have the Chief of Police’s officers monitor boxes in their precinct area.

I came up with 3 in just a few minutes. I’m sure others much smarter than me could come up with better ideas. However, I don’t believe we should just sit back and allow willful election interference to continue with attempting to do something.

[LeftInTX]

172. The one in Portland was monitored. Only 3 ballots

were damaged. It also had a fire suppressant that worked.

[CoopersDad]

152. In the future maybe deposit boxes need WiFi enabled scanners.

...to register the names of all voters who deposited their ballots.

Otherwise, there's no reliable way to be sure these people are all accounted for.

Damn, I'm pissed.

[Jack Valentino]

166. Garland leads an army of lawyers, not an army of soldiers....

It is already against the law to set fire to ballot boxes.... so not sure what he is supposed to do to prevent it. There aren't enough US Marshals to protect every ballot box in America

[Think. Again.]

175. There are a limited number of magats that could be expected to do these things...

...they are usually active online and on social media. They can be tracked and watched, even given very clear warnings about their planned actions or deterred in some other way.

Yes, it's profiling, but the doj does that all the time to other groups, it seems to be only the magats and coup/insurrection organizers that the doj seems to systematically ignore.

[JCMach1]

168. Call him the WH and demand he secure the election

Action plan, or resign