The Mike Johnson secret that Trump referred to at his Nazi rally might be this.

[wnylib]

Just a guess based on what we know about MAGA manipulations for power.

[UPDATE for accuracy.
It was pointed out to me in a post by Fiendish Thingy that my scenario about the election ending up in the House for resolution on a contingency vote is very unlikely due to changes in federal law via ACRA after the J6 insurrection. That makes my guess about the "Johnson secret" invalid.

I am not deleting the thread, though, because Trump and the MAGA movement that backs him still present a serious threat to the election results, even if my guess about how the threat will play out regarding Mike Johnson is not accurate.

Maybe someone else has a better idea of how the Trump, Vance, Thiel, Heritage Foundation will try to subvert the election results. Because of J6 and the Trump/Vance wealthy far right backers, I take Trump's refusal to accept any outcome other than a win for himself very seriously. So the rest of my OP stands as originally written, despite my error on how a subversion might be carried out.]

We know that they plan to create enough chaos around the election to claim a victory for Trump. One expectation is that they will push to throw the election to the House. Another is that they will just hold up certification through refusals, court cases, and various delays until J6 passes by with no certification.

If they can stall long enough to prevent a winner for inauguration on J20, the presidency of Joe Biden and the Vice Presidency of Kamala Harris will officially end at noon on J20. Speaker Mike Johnson is next in line for the presidency. They might get a SC ruling to affirm that Johnson would succeed Biden.

With Johnson in control of the WH and the SC backing MAGA decisions, Johnson and the SC could decide that Trump was the official winner and that Johnson was just a fill in until the outcome was decided. Then Trump would be inaugurated.

With Johnson in the WH and then Trump, they would have control of the reins of government and the military for a response to protests. That removes the problem of Biden being in control when they stage their coup.

Hope that I am wrong, but this scenario fits what we know about the MAGA delay and chaos tactics AND Trump's comment about a secret with Johnson.

OR, the secret could be simpler. It could be just a refusal by Johnson to swear in the House winners before J6, with the excuse that the outcomes are too uncertain. When the election gets thrown to the House due to delay tactics and chaos around who won, there would be enough MAGAs there to give the election to Trump.

It would be technically constitutional because it would rely on constitutional provisions for "uncertain" or challenged elections. So what would Biden's recourse be to such a deliberate bad faith use of the constitution?

[obamanut2012]

1. He won't be Speaker if the Dems take the House

Hakeem Jeffries probably will be.

[the_liberal_grandpa]

24. Congress is sworn in on January 3rd

So Jeffries would be the speaker

[aggiesal]

68. The point is that Speaker Johnson would delay the swearing in on J3 ...

because the outcomes are too uncertain.
Then the previous Congress would still be seated on J6 and they would not certify the Electoral College votes, thus throwing it back to the state legislatures to determine the EC Votes.

They're willing to break all the norms, just to seat their disgusting candidate.

[jmowreader]

70. I'm going to throw a wrench in the works here

The 118th Congress has a hard end time of noon January 3, 2025. If the Democrats take control of the House, which they probably will, Johnson's term as Speaker ends at that moment.

[aggiesal]

71. I get what you're saying, but these @$$hole$ think they can get away with everything ...

so they are going to try.
Anything to stall on the guise that the election wasn't fair.

[proud patriot]

39. is there a way for them to block dems taking the house ?

when we win back the house ...

this question has been running through my brain .

[Diraven]

58. Powell vs. McCormack 1969

Supreme Court said they can't. Unless the current SC says they can.

[onetexan]

65. If SCOTUS puts their thumb on it

Biden needs to exercise his immunity powers & jullify the court. Desperate times calks for desperate measures.

[proud patriot]

92. Yes indeed

[proud patriot]

91. Well Shit

thanks for the response .

I really think this may be the play if pukes lose the house .

[yourout]

2. And that's probably the big reason that they're pushing the right laning poles as hard as they are

[gab13by13]

3. The Supreme Court can send the certification

Back to the states in November or December.

[Fiendish Thingy]

34. Nope.

https://protectdemocracy.org/work/understanding-the-electoral-count-reform-act-of-2022/

[Blue_Roses]

74. Thank-you for this!

I've read it and bookmarked it. I wasn't aware of this. So glad these changes were made

[Fiendish Thingy]

88. Me too

The new law is sure to be tested to its limits this year, so let’s hope it holds up under pressure.

[magicarpet]

4. Expect these Fascists to have twenty plans,...

.... to grab the White House for djt. If one fails try the next scheme. Wet, lather, wash, rinse, then repeat.

[wnylib]

8. The question then becomes

What do we, the people, do about such a deliberately fraudulent takeover of government?

Do we fight against it openly? Do we accept it as "technically" correct even though it is a deliberate bad faith use of the constitution to accomplish a coup?

Do we resist passively through refusal to comply with MAGA edicts? Stage nationwide strikes?

[Blue_Roses]

19. No, we dont comply with a damn thing!

It won't come to this though. You can bet that they are putting safeguards in place as we speak. VP Harris was a prosecutor for gods sake

[wnylib]

26. That's my greatest hope -- the prosecutorial experience of Kamala Harris.

[Silent Type]

5. Could happen, I suppose. But we still have Presidency, Senate, DOJ, close in House, and

the Supreme Court held firm against trump in 2020.

2020 — with trump in office and really thin margin for Biden — would have pretty easy to throw to trump. Hope we win by more this time.

Plus, once we win, we have time to block the MFers with some good lawyers and Congresspeople.

That’s my positive spin, but I’m concerned too.

[Tweedy]

55. President Biden won with 51.3% of the vote

That is not a thin margin. He won 302 electoral college votes. We both elected and selected President Biden.

Whatever Mr. Trump’s most recent insurrectionist plans are, we can count on the perpetrators being chaotic, undisciplined and in-fighting. Don’t forget Mr. Trump and his cronies live off the grift and right now politics Is where their money is.

Conversely, President Biden and Vice President Harris operate in the world of competence, efficiency and cooperation.

Get out every vote you can. That is our best play right now. Everything else is borrowing trouble from a dystopian future that lives solely in Mr. Trump’s miserable imagination.

[Silent Type]

86. Yeah, if the Electoral College didn't matter. But it does. Agree we have to beat trump.

[Tweedy]

89. ?? President Biden won with 302 electoral college votes

That was not a thin margin either.

[Silent Type]

94. Less than 100,000 votes.

[Tweedy]

95. No. President Biden with millions of votes.

Either we are looking at the popular vote, under which President Biden won with a whopping 51.3% of the vote.

Or we look at the electoral college, where President Biden won with 302 votes.

Conflating the two is what trumpies do to diminish President Biden’s win. The same folks ignore Secretary Clinton’s blow out popular vote win and claim 302 electoral college votes (what Mr. Trump received) was a blow out for him. Mr. Trump’s electoral college election “win” was much closer than President Biden’s in the swing states.

Either way we look at 2020, Joe Biden’s win was overwhelmingly large. It is only when we stick ourselves in the Trumpie frame that the 2020 election looks close. I know much of the media loves to do just that. Just because the MSM is drowning in trumpie framing does not mean we need to be.

[Mr.WeRP]

6. Biden could resign so Harris could take over.

She then could use the powers SCOTUS gave Trump to arrest and imprison those involved in this conspiracy.

[wnylib]

12. That's an interesting suggestion. It would be seen as

as a dictatorial move by Biden to give the presidency to Harris and an abuse of power by Harris to arrest her opponents.

In other words, it would be viewed as exactly the kind of authoritarianism that we accuse MAGAs of. The result would be full blown civil war through an uprising of MAGAs and their militias. Even Harris supporters might see it as authoritarianism and balk at supporting her in the civil war that would follow.

[orangecrush]

18. Fuck MAGATs feelings

[wnylib]

30. It's not their feelings that would concern me.

Like you, I don't have much regard for their feelings. But I do have regard for the democratic processes of government.

Instead of turning the reins over to Harris, who is one of the candidates, perhaps Biden could use constitutional powers at his disposal to stop the bad faith processes that the MAGAs would be engaging in. I am not a constitutional scholar, but since MAGAs would be acting in unison across several states to create doubt and chaos, could they be charged with conspiracy to interfere with the election and arrested?

Then someone else would need to take over the certification and counting process in the states in question. I don't know how they would be found or put into their positions. That's for legal scholars to decide.

MAGAs would howl over that, too, and call it abuse of power by the president, but it would be a legally legitimate action by Biden and in keeping with democratic (small d) processes, so at that point, I would also say to the MAGAs, "FU."

[onetexan]

66. Agree. This is not a case of abuse of power

Both the president taking action to protect the constitution & the republic from enemies foreign & domestic. In tbis case the enemy is domestic.

[Mr.WeRP]

79. If she won the election, then anyone who opposes certification

Is part of a coup. She is within her powers to detain them for violation of federal law. Congress MUST certify.

[Captain Zero]

80. No if Biden turned over to Harris before J6

And a Republican Senate was sworn in Jan. 3, that would leave no vp, and a Republican pro tempore to run the J6 proceedings. Bad juju there.

[Prince99]

25. Not if she won

I don't see it that way if she had popular vote and they went forward with this scheme. Oh, and won the electoral college.

[wnylib]

41. If she won, that woud make it appear to be a legitimate

move to get her in office.

The problem is that the chaos around the vote counting in some states, i.e. districts within a state (like a red district in PA, for example) would make it hard to know for sure that she had won.

Also, it would only delay a solution to the problem. If Biden resigned and turned over the government to Harris, she would legitimately be president from the date of Biden's resignation until January 20, 2025. Then someone -- Harris or Trump -- would have to be inaugurated because Harris would only be fulfilling the last days or weeks of Biden's term until J20.

If the tally was still uncertain by then, the problem of the Biden/Harris successor would remain unresolved.

If we knew for certain with objective proof that Harris/Walz won the election, then it might work for Biden to turn over the reins to Harris, but she would still need to find a judge who would swear in her and Walz. Does not have to be a SC Justice, but might preferable for legitimacy apppearances.

[Blue_Roses]

48. Okay, why?

You're going all out with this. Why?

[Mr.WeRP]

76. Biden is allowed to resign for whatever reason

And if they seem like dictatorial powers, that is on the Supreme Court, not Harris.

[Bayard]

13. That sounds good, but....

How would the final scenario play out? Would Kamala assume office without certification?

[Mr.WeRP]

77. After she arrests those involved in the coup

She would have the votes she needs for certification. Anyone who opposes certification is obviously part of the coup if she won the election.

[edisdead]

32. why would he need to resign to do this?

He could just do it himself.

[Mr.WeRP]

38. He could, but it's her fight

[SomedayKindaLove]

83. She could lose all of her political capital

Biden would have to be willing to take another hit for the team.

[dalton99a]

40. +1

[Orrex]

51. Would that prevent her from running in 2028?

[Mr.WeRP]

78. No. She would have served only one term elected.

[pioche4]

57. I like this!

[UTUSN]

7. Knr to heighten my anxiety level

[lindysalsagal]

9. Just because he's delusional it doesn't mean his ideas will work.

They'd have to prove their questioned ballots outnumber Harris's lead in enough states to make any difference. That would require lots of help in several places, and many have been convicted for helping .

[macwriter]

10. here's a theory

Perhaps they think that because Kamala would chair the counting of the votes as Veep, that she should be disqualified because she has a personal vested interest in the outcome?

[Bayard]

14. Al Gore did it

[wnylib]

15. Nah. Gore presided over the J6 vote count in the 2000 election

that SCOTUS gave to Bush.

[Fiendish Thingy]

33. It's in the constitution

Whether they like it or not, the VP presides over the joint session, and they can’t stop it.

[johnnyfins]

75. Exactly. GHW Bush did it in 1988, a contest

that he won.

[OAITW r.2.0]

11. They could do that....

then lets see what happens when they try to negate a clear win for for Harris, It won't go well.

[JHB]

16. The truth might be even more simple: he has nothing, but is telling people he'll reveal a big thing in 2 weeks

Does anyone have a tally of how many times he's done that?

[wnylib]

17. How does that get him into the WH?

[TwilightZone]

21. It doesn't.

Trump is just blowing smoke out of his ass and Johnson is playing along. They have nothing.

And we keep falling for it.

[wnylib]

29. Hmm. I heard similar comments in 2020, prior to J6.

[JHB]

23. It doesn't. And he knows it. But it's one more thing to get the MAGAts believing he's got it...

...and justify their rage when he doesn't. It doesn't get him into the WH, but it might get him his bloodbath.

[TwilightZone]

20. That's exactly what it is. I don't know why we keep falling for this shit.

Why do we ever take anything these people say at face value?

Come on, people.

[JHB]

28. There's a phrase I coined for Newt Gingrich back in the previous century...

"The only thing coming out of his mouth that should be taken at face value is vomit."

Also applies to the Trump and Rudy Show, but they were mostly separate acts back then.

[H2O Man]

22. Yes.

Of course it is. No question about it.

[the_liberal_grandpa]

27. Don't Forget This....

Joe Biden has total immunity for official acts and may be called upon to use it to shut down any madness and violence

[wnylib]

42. But the SC has declared that they are the arbiters

who have the final say on what is an official act that is immune.

With 6 justices in the pockets of MAGAs, which way would they vote?

[markodochartaigh]

61. And it is only the president who is immune.

If the president tells someone to go knock over the bank on the corner because it is full of dead presidents and he wants to liberate them, the supreme court could say that that is an official act. But all the president's men would not be immune from prosecution.

[Fiendish Thingy]

31. Only an EV tie can "throw the election to the house".

Less than 1% chance of that happening.

Every other scenario in your post is an uninformed fantasy.

https://www.citizensforethics.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/ElectionCertificationUnderThreat-2.pdf

https://www.cato.org/blog/clarifying-possibility-contingent-election-under-twelfth-amendment

https://protectdemocracy.org/work/understanding-the-electoral-count-reform-act-of-2022/

[Wiz Imp]

44. Thank you. I'm getting really tired of these outrageous conspiracy theories.

Unfortunately, I'm sure we'll continue to see them in bunches for the foreseeable future.

[Fiendish Thingy]

46. Until January 20 at least.

Critical thinking skills, and not blind acceptance of emotionally triggering information from believable sources, will be essential over the next several weeks.

[wnylib]

73. In 2020 I warned that Trump would not only refuse

to accept a Biden win, but that he would resort to violence to try to hold onto power. I based my warning on the testimony of Michael Cohen before Congress and on some very good articles in Atlantic Magazine about how Trump could try to overthrow the election results

I was told by several DU posters that I was an alarmist and a conspiracy theorist. I was told that there was no basis for concern, that Trump was a blustering bully who would cave in when he lost. I was also further informed that Trump's supporters were all a bunch of couch potatoes who would not lift a finger on his behalf IF he did call on them, but of course he would not do so because he was just a blustering coward. Those posters were silent on J6.

Trump is only the face of what the MAGA movement has become. He is the useful tool of people behind Project 2025.

My specific scenario of how the far right could carry out an attempt to seal power for themselves might be wrong, but it is not a conspiracy theory that they intend to subvert the election results if that's what it takes to gain the power of the office of the presidency.

[Cha]

47. TY.. I was waitig for this.

[Blue_Roses]

49. This

Thank-you

[Diraven]

59. I thought it was just no one having 270

If one or more Republican-held states just refuse to certify Harris electors after she wins the vote then that could happen.

[Fiendish Thingy]

64. 270 is not etched in stone

270 is merely the minimum EV’s required to get a majority if the maximum number of electors have been duly appointed.

If a state fails to send electors to congress (unconstitutional), or congress rejects a slate of electors, that reduces the total number of duly appointed electors, which in turn reduces the number required to achieve a majority to below 270.

I repeat: failure to certify does not trigger a contingent election in the house.

In the election of 1864, none of the Confederate states sent electors, and that didn’t trigger a contingent election in the house- the winner was the candidate with the majority of electors sent to congress by the Union states.

The only previous contingent elections were in the 1800’s, when three or more candidates earned EV’s, and none earned a majority. The only way that can happen this year is with a tie.

[wnylib]

72. Well, it is hopeful to me that "every other scenario" in my post

is an uninformed fantasy. I would regard that as very reassuring.

So, it took time to respond because I needed to read your links in order to become better informed. Thank you.

I am relying on your first and third links for pertinent information. I am not confident about relying on a link from a Libertarian organization like the Cato Institute.

My scenario of the election results being sent to the House on a contingency vote does seem less likely, based on the ACRA reforms.

It does not make me less nervous about a MAGA conspiracy to seize power because I can easily see their lawyers going over ACRA and individual states' laws with a fine-toothed comb seeking out loopholes and interpretations to exploit. I don't mean idiot lawyers like the ones that Trump hired like Rudy and the rest of his incompetent fools. I mean lawyers working for MAGA oligarch backers, the kind of people who are aligned with The Heritage Foundation and Project 2025.

The Heritage Foundation's president, Kevin Roberts, has publicly stated that they are bringing a revolution to the US government that will be bloodless *IF* the Left allows it. I take that to mean that they intend to take over this year's election results through their definition and interpretation of legal means. In other words, they will use court challenges, their legal interpretations of election laws (including ACRA), plus confusion and chaos to claim and try to enforce a Trump win. If they meet with opposition that they can only overcome by unleashing guerrilla terrorist tactics by well armed and trained militias, they will switch from a "bloodless revolution" to a bloody one.

That does change my "fantasy" scenario of what the MAGA plan is and what role Mike Johnson might play. By MAGA, I do not mean just Trump and his criminal relatives. I mean the American (and foreign?) oligarchs who are the power players behind Trump and Vance. People like Peter Thiel and Kevin Roberts.

The ACRA is a needed and significant improvement for safeguarding elections. I took some notes while reading about it in your links. I think that there are parts that could be exploited and "reinterpreted" by competent (and compromised?) attorneys. There is also the SC with 6 MAGA-owned justices.

But it is late after reading through your links. Perhaps tomorrow I can mention the parts of the info from your links that I think are vulnerable.

[Fiendish Thingy]

87. Thanks for taking the time to read the info at the links

That makes it possible to have a discussion using the same information base.

I agree that the MAGA extremists will pull out all the stops to try and put Trump in the White House, and will try and exploit any potential loopholes, as well as using threats and general chaos to try to tip the scales in their direction.

The legal safeguards in the ECRA and the CREW report greatly reduce their chances of succeeding IMO, but don’t eliminate them 100%. The ECRA is new, untested law, and it is certain to get tested to its limits starting in a week.

In addition to the various state, federal and constitutional safeguards that make me optimistic, there is also the fact that this same SCOTUS (minus KBJ) declined to install Trump in 2020. This fact begs the questions “Why didn’t they? And, Why would they do it this year when they didn’t in 2020?”

Again, thanks for taking the time to click and read the links. Might I suggest bookmarking the links, so that if you encounter someone making an offhand comment about “throwing it to the house”, you can share the link to better inform the DU community. I find it shocking that almost no one in either print or TV MSM has discussed the ECRA, even though everyone will be talking about it within the next week or so.

P.S. I too was skeptical about the Cato link, but it uses facts drawn from the text of the constitution and the ECRA, and its conclusions didn’t seem biased to me. YMMV

[doc03]

35. Well doesn't Biden have total immunity from any official act.

[Orrex]

52. That was my first thought, but there's this:

Anything that a Republikkkan does in office is an official act, and nothing that a Democrat does in office is an official act.

[ecstatic]

36. Here's the problem with that plan - once one norm is tossed, why the f*ck would we continue with

other norms of allowing mj's traitor ass to be seated as president? Nope. Not happening. He would be dragged out and Biden would control the reins until President Harris was seated.

[lees1975]

37. The constitution places responsibility for elections with the states.

January 6th is a Congressional acknowledgement and affirmation of the count, but according to the constitution, the electors ballots are certified by the state, before they are sent to Congress. I believe it was Rachel Bitecofer who made the point that if electoral votes are going to be messed with, that has to happen at the state house, not in Congress. By the time they get to DC, the votes are already certified. It might be that a federal judge would have to rule if there was a challenge, but as I read her comments, if they are going to mess with the electoral vote, it must be done before the elector chosen by the people's vote casts the ballot and before either the Secretary of State, Governor or another state officer certifies the electoral vote in that state. And I believe any challenge to accepting the electoral votes of any state in Congress requires a two thirds majority to make happen.

[Wiz Imp]

43. Sorry and no offense intended, but this is as crazy as any MAGA conspiracy theory

I can say unequivocally that this will not happen.

Also, the election can not be thrown to the house just "due to delay tactics and chaos over who won".

And no, none of this would be constitutional.

[AdamGG]

56. It may be improbable, but

nothing is as crazy as MAGA conspiracy theories.

[Cha]

45. Question? Why is tsf advertizing it? Answer:

because he has Diarrhea of he mouth.

[Blue_Roses]

53. That was my question too...

It's like a kid who knows what they got mama for Christmas and is dying to tell her, so the kid keeps bringing attention to it.

[AdamGG]

50. Except if the Democrats pick up enough seats to take control of the House...

Speaker Hakeem Jeffries will be presiding beginning on January 3rd.

[somaticexperiencing]

54. not sure that is viable. i tell you this - i won't be sitting in my rocking chair if all this starts to happen

[haele]

60. That's ridiculous. Congress ends midnight Jan 2. Period.

The new House Leader is voted on, and then begins the swearing in. Remember 15 votes Kevin McCarthy?
Then every 4 years, the Presidential election is certified.
That's the way it's done.

Doesn't matter what Johnson "plans to do" if state AGs decide not to certify the results of the Federal Election.
He might not be in charge of the House. If there's a "problem" with the ballots for Harris, there might also be a lot of problems on that same ballot for other Candidates on that ballot because there's such a thing as split ballots...
Heck, Laz was just telling me that 15% of polled Trump voters in AZ last week were voting for Gallego over Lake.
That might also carry in House races.

This is going to be an interesting election, for sure.
Haele

[Linda ladeewolf]

62. There is one thing that might cause a problem.

Remember when they tried to steal the boxes that held the official certifications when they broke into the house on January 6th? Their intent was to physically prevent them from being counted. An intern grabbed them and ran to the safest place to protect those certificates. I don’t remember the details. Anyone else remember that?

[KS Toronado]

63. Whatever TSF & Johnson have up their sleeves

The Biden team has been anticipating all of their checkers moves while planning our 3D Chess moves
to counter them. I just hope it includes some "official acts" with immunity by President Biden.

[ReRe]

69. By hook or by crook,

it's just another coup scenario. If the SC steps in and declares Trump the winner,

then the coup is on their hands, or should we say Leonard Leo & The Federalist Society?

There is NO way any of this can happen, though. Because it's going to be an overwhelming

landslide In Vice President Harris' favor.

[mucholderthandirt]

82. The law might be different, but do they care? It's clear they'll do what they can to interfere.

Of course, by the time the certification comes up, we'll have a different House, too. Hopefully one with Kareem Jeffries in charge. There'd be no hope of anyone pulling this trick.

So, either they're stupid, or they think we won't fight back. Oh, crap. Of course they're stupid, what am I thinking?

[WestMichRad]

84. Y'all are too hung up on technicalities.

I think their “secret” is much simpler: TSF declares that the election was rife with fraud (offering no specific information to prove it), therefore the electoral votes are null and void and the House has the power to decide the outcome. Since the election was fraudulent, nothing can be trusted and it is the division of power that existed on Dec 31 (or Jan 1, or pick a date), when a majority of states are/were controlled by Republican majorities, and thus they will win the 50 vote selection in the House. Then he just needs one SCOTUS justice to swear him in and he declares the constitution to be null and void (including the power of SCOTUS to overturn the scheme).
Far fetched? Maybe. Trumpian fever dream? Definitely.
As Lawrence O’Donnell pointed out, the problem with any scheme, this time around, is that he isn’t currently the president, so he lacks the power to do this. Full stop.

But it would not stop he and Johnson from trying.

[Fullduplexxx]

85. Squirrel

Or it could be nothing but a way to get you to talk about something other than he wants hitler's generals

[Buckeyeblue]

90. I think Mike Johnson is promising the world to the nazi. But in the end, he will do what's best for himself

[Blue Full Moon]

93. Well I have heard

Republicans say that is exactly that while gloating.