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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTexas teacher tells kindergartners Santa isn’t real - all hell breaks loose
Kindergarten is a blissful time when life is all about finger painting, skipping rope, zipping down park slides and, of course, believing in Santa. Not the case for a group of 5-years-olds at a public school in Austin, Texas. The students teacherwho just might be the worlds Grinchiest Grinchdecided to tell her students that the man in a red suit is a fake. Suddenly, these kids were robbed of one of the great joys of childhood.
The Houston Press reports:
Late last week, a five-year-old girl came home from Austins Pease Elementary school with a question for her dad.
Daddy, she asked her father, Is Santa real?
Dad said yes, and wanted to know why his daughter asked.
Because Mrs. Fuller the girls afters-chool teacher said he wasnt real. She said None of you believe in Santa do you? and said that you and mommy buy all our presents and put them under the tree. She said that you should tell us the truth.
The girls parents were upset, especially since their daughter attended a Waldorf preschool that encouraged kids to believe in magical things like fairies.
The parents felt that the teacher was wrong in pressing her beliefs on the students. They complained to the principal who reprimanded the teacher.
http://blog.sfgate.com/sfmoms/2012/12/05/texas-teacher-tells-kindergartners-santa-isnt-real/
msongs
(73,752 posts)Mel Content
(123 posts)I'm guessing that Mrs. Fuller is probably the type who'll say that santa isn't real- but jesus is.
it is Texas, after all.
AldoLeopold
(617 posts)I lived there 15 years - and the kept pulling me back in! Finally got out to Arkansas, only to have Arkansas go completely red under my feet.
Still not as bad as Texas. Damn Texas Brush Poppers.
Mattie Ross: [LaBoeuf is whipping her] Are you going to let him do this, Marshal?
Rooster Cogburn: [watches for a moment] No, I don't believe I will. Put your switch away, LaBoeuf.
LaBoeuf: I aim to finish what I started!
Rooster Cogburn: It'll be the biggest mistake you ever made, you Texas brush-popper.
[aims gun at LaBoeuf]
whathehell
(30,468 posts)at least as a teacher, for that to happen.
liberalhistorian
(20,905 posts)she was an "afterschool teacher", and those are usually just glorified babysitters who keep the kids busy until their parents pick them up, and not an actual, degreed kindergarten/elementary teachers. I think a trained, degreed teacher would have very well known not to do that and I've never heard of one who has (I grew up with teachers).
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)5-year-olds that Santa isn't real. Many fundamentalists object to the idea of Santa Claus. Miserable people.
cali
(114,904 posts)I doubt that a fundamentalist would teach at one.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)Waldorf preschool. This was a public school Kindergarten class.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)I don't suppose it's just a fundy thing, but certainly a miserable people thing.
Sekhmets Daughter
(7,515 posts)mrmpa
(4,033 posts)sat on the couch next to me and asked me if Santa was real. I wasn't about to break the news to him & tell him the truth. I told him yes he was. He said, "but I don't understand how he gets all around the world". I thought about that and in the words of Cheech & Chong, I told hime "it's magic dust." He was satisfied. I later told his parents, and they howled.
This satisfied him & by the following Christmas he knew the truth.
marshall
(6,706 posts)At least she's teaching reality.
white_wolf
(6,257 posts)There is a wealth of historical evidence proving his existence. Most historians also acknowledge that Buddha was a real person due to the archaeological evidence and the fact that the Pali Cannon shows evidence that it was the work of a single person.
marshall
(6,706 posts)In each case, Mohammad, Buddha, Jesus, followers took a historical individual and created a legend.
Warren Religion
(70 posts)marshall
(6,706 posts)You can even see it happening in modern day figures, from Kennedy to Chavez to Reagan. There is the real man, and then there is the larger than life man.
deutsey
(20,166 posts)I think the PR/marketing folks in the entertainment industry intentionally play into that trait by creating larger-than-life auras around celebrities.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)very poor list there.
marshall
(6,706 posts)Even the Easter Bunny, dating to the Goddess Oestre, could be based on some real world woman. The further back in history one goes with these myths, the more shrouded the origins become.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)said no one.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Okay.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)When kids get old enough to figure out on their own who's really putting the presents under the tree, have any of them gone off to a mental institution as a result?
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)There are, however, a lot of stories of people who lost the ability to trust adults and others.
But, hey, anything that doesn't put a kid in a mental institution is fine. Is that the standard?
Children can be gullible and trusting. Mom & Dad say there is a Santa Claus who magically delivers gifts. Just like that nice man in the car who wants to offer me a ride to go see the reindeer, and who has a magical elf in his pants.
The2ndWheel
(7,947 posts)I can't help but think that Santa would be low on the list of things that would be so devastating.
So kids believe in Santa for a few years. Oh no, a 5 year old believes in something that doesn't exist. They should know the cold hard truth. They don't have decades of life's other, far larger disappointments ahead of them or anything.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)People react to things in different ways.
http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2012/12/05/santa-claus-innocent-fantasy-or-harmful-lie-2/
Here's the thing.... children love to play "make believe", and parents do that with kids all of the time, with the understanding that it is fun to play "make believe", knowing that it is pretending. A cardboard box is a castle, a household pet is a terrifying monster.
Playing make believe doesn't spoil anyone's fun - not one bit. But there is this weird thing about insisting on the reality of Santa Claus, as if making that part of the fun all kids have with pretending, would take all of the fun out of it.
d_r
(6,908 posts)That essay is all opinion. And I think it is a silly one. And she isn't really saying much at all "just don't go to extreme's lying to children."
As for "qualified professional" fwiw, I'll stake my Ph.D. in Dev. Psych vs. Chaley-Ann Scott's BA in sociology.
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)would have a much worse effect on the child than a parent -- in response to a child's questions -- explaining that Santa Claus was just pretend.
snot
(11,804 posts)Sure, adults get big laughs out of the joke they play on kids.
It's not clear to me that the kids get much out of it.

Edited to add: That said, I think the teacher spoke out of turn. (But again, I don't understand how telling kids there's a Santa is supposed to help them.)
whathehell
(30,468 posts)liberalhistorian
(20,905 posts)who was traumatized over the Santa "lie" or who had problems trusting adults as a result. It's just one of those childhood magic things, and it's generally not a big deal when you figure out it's not real. The kids who do have the most problems are the ones who usually already have family/parental problems, things like that.
I don't ever recall any kind of problem with it myself. I think I was about nine or so when I figured it out, but I don't exactly remember how. I just remember that one Christmas I did believe in Santa, and by the next I didn't, no big deal. I remember how much fun it was to believe in him, though, and I enjoyed my own son's fun with Santa.
raccoon
(32,390 posts)"The kids who do have the most problems are the ones who usually already have family/parental problems, things like that."
I know I felt betrayed and lied to when I finally found out Santa Claus wasn't real. I think that in a family where trust is already an issue this is likely to happen.
But I still have a problem with people insisting on lying to kids, saying Santa Claus is real. Why can't that just be make-believe like Mother Goose stories, SHREK, fairies, and so on?
Squinch
(59,521 posts)working against your wishes and insisting to your children that Santa is real.
On the other hand, if you were a parent who wants your child to have the experience of Santa Clause, I likewise would never dream of working against your wishes and telling the child that Santa is a parental lie.
deutsey
(20,166 posts)and was able to enjoy Christmas and my mom for many years afterward.
What has put me off of Christmas today is the insane commercialism around it. I'm not a Scrooge about it (like going around scowling and telling people how much I hate this form of Christmas), but I do very little in terms of participating in Christmas anymore. I still spend time with family, but on a personal level I focus more on the solstice aspect of the season and reflect on the growing darkness as the daylight grows shorter while looking forward to the slow return of the sun and longer days.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I never blamed my parents for lying to me, nor did I feel disappointed. It was just a part of growing up. Christmas started out being magic for me and I never forgot that. My parents did their best to make it that way.
I still love those memories and I love seeing my neices and nephews excited about it all over again. Sooner or later they will grow out of it, but I doubt they will be disappointed. They will know their parents had their best interests in mind. Besides, they will always get presents, whether they come from "Santa" or from Mom and Dad. I think they will turn out fine.
chelsea0011
(10,222 posts)My children could believe in Santa as long as they like, but when they asked me the first time if Santa was real the truth comes out. I always got a kick out of parents who did all they could to prolong the obvious ending.
ejpoeta
(8,933 posts)pnwmom
(110,260 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 12, 2012, 11:07 PM - Edit history (1)
and took it upon herself to tell the children their parents were lying to them.
I would answer truthfully when my children asked. But I would have been mad at any kindergarten teacher who decided it was her job to disillusion children.
chelsea0011
(10,222 posts)juajen
(8,515 posts)Seemed to solve that problem big time. Of course, having a teenager that believed in Santa was a little embarrassing sometimes. We still relay that great information to grandchildren. Also is good for the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny.
DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)David "Lumpy" Williams had been Santa for several generations of kids in our little town.
To kids in our town, Lumpy was Santa.
He was one of the coolest guys on the planet.
Christmas will not be the same, for a while.
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)Lumpy was one of a kind, the real deal.
Lumpy was Santa...
DBH
DollarBillHines
(1,922 posts)Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)mike_c
(37,051 posts)In my day they called it "telling the truth."
obamanut2012
(29,368 posts)wtf
Confusious
(8,317 posts)"how do I look in this?"
Like shit. No really, you look like shit. What? It's the truth!
"does this make me look fat?"
Yea, looks like you put on an extra small animal. What? It's the truth.
Sheesh.
mike_c
(37,051 posts)Yes, your ass looks big today.
onpatrol98
(1,989 posts)Although I had no problems telling my own children there was no Santa...I've never felt the need to tell anyone else's children there was no Santa. Why not leave it to their parents? Did she run out of other things to talk about? ABCs, counting, colors, etc...wasn't enough?
Maybe she should have stuck to the lesson plan.
Squinch
(59,521 posts)Any more than it is the place of a teacher to pass his or her religious beliefs to the kids in his/her class. It's the other side of the same coin. Both are equally stepping over the line.
obamanut2012
(29,368 posts)WTF.
Squinch
(59,521 posts)Santa, it's not her decision to say they can't do that.
Just as if the family doesn't want to have Christianity thrown at the child in school, it's not up to the teacher to decide to override them.
jberryhill
(62,444 posts)If the teacher were asked a direct question, what is the teacher ethically supposed to do?
Squinch
(59,521 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Squinch
(59,521 posts)for a kid.
It is not up to me to confirm or deny. Just like, if a child asks me, "Do you believe in Jesus?" I'm going to say, "I don't talk about my religion in school."
We are allowed to say to kids, in so many words, "we're not going to talk about that."
obamanut2012
(29,368 posts)I also think if a child asks a teacher if Santa exists, there is nothing wrong with the teacher telling the truth.
avebury
(11,196 posts)Squinch
(59,521 posts)(of course I don't, but there are those out there who do) - and your child asked me, and I went against your wishes and said, "yes, I absolutely believe in Santa" would that be acceptable?
I don't think it's responsible for a professional working with kids to be addressing this question at all. It is up to the parents how they handle this. To some families it is very important that their children have the experience.
I understand from your comments that you think it is not a good thing to do to children, and I know that there are many who think the way you do. But that is not the point. There are many who agree with you and many who disagree with you. It is not appropriate for any school professional to override the wishes of families on either side of this discussion.
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)that their parents have been lying to them.
This is a conversation parents should have been having with their own children, when the time was right.
whathehell
(30,468 posts)liberalhistorian
(20,905 posts)It was not this woman's place to cross that boundary and she was out of line. But I certainly don't think it's anywhere near the "tragedy" that these too-dramatic parents are claiming, and they need to get a grip.
Squinch
(59,521 posts)dballance
(5,756 posts)That's all sorts of wrong and if I were her I'd fight to get that reprimand off my record. "The parents felt that the teacher was wrong in pressing her beliefs on students." Seriously? Like pressing the belief the sun comes up in the east and sets in the west on them? Or that water is wet?
What the heck is a "Waldorf" school and why do we call it any sort of educational institution if it teaches kids to believe in fairies?
Confusious
(8,317 posts)Boy a bunch of fucking killjoys around here.
Might as well start showing them pictures of dead people around the world as soon as they come out of the womb.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)magic and humor deprived types when I was a kid.
I guess some miserable people just enjoy spoiling things for everyone else.
Kaleva
(40,365 posts)Shucks...since I think she should have left the Santa talk for Mom and Dad and stuck to the alphabet, I sure as heck don't think she has a reason to discuss the death of parents to Kindergartners.
Why would she have a reason to tell a classroom of someone else's 5 year olds...so, kiddos? Your mom and dad are going to die some day. What's her follow up? By the way, you're going to die also. I know you're only five or six, but I felt compelled to discuss the death of your parents.
DU can be straight up crazy some days.
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)I think the point was this: just because a teacher could truthfully say: "Your parents are not telling you the truth about Santa Claus" OR "Your parents are guaranteed to die someday" doesn't mean she SHOULD say either thing.
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)to tell the children their parents hadn't been telling them the truth.
That's very different from "not lying." She was the one who asked the question and gave the answer, not the kids.
dballance
(5,756 posts)A teacher should bring up subjects and ask questions.
There are a lot of parents who don't believe in evolution. Do you believe teachers shouldn't teach well established science which might cause kids to think their parents were lying to them if they had been teaching them at home that the earth is only 6,000 years old?
onpatrol98
(1,989 posts)I'm thinking apparently her school thought she should bring up other subjects...besides, by the way, your parents are lying to you.
Then again, if she's an after school teacher, her job may have simply been to help with homework and make sure the kids were safe and sound until their parents retrieved them. Really, I'm thinking that should have been enough to keep her busy.
dballance
(5,756 posts)is really not a topic a teacher their daily or after school teacher should be taking on for such young kids.
I haven't the foggiest idea what this person was thinking.
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)"None of you believe in Santa Claus, do you?" and then tell them their parents have been telling them lies.
Science IS in the curriculum. Santa Claus is NOT. At some point, what children learn about science will make them question the Santa Claus story. Then they can ask questions and get answers.
But this teacher had no business spoiling Christmas for these 5 years olds -- and telling them that their parents were liars.
surrealAmerican
(11,879 posts)... an "after-school teacher" at a Waldorf preschool?
Shouldn't this person be called a babysitter, rather than a teacher?
liberalhistorian
(20,905 posts)Afterschool teachers are not trained, degreed, actual teachers, they are glorified babysitters who keep kids busy until they're picked up to go home. An actual teacher would have known not to have done this despite any personal beliefs, that there are boundaries you simply do not cross and it is NOT your place to do so.
Initech
(108,778 posts)obamanut2012
(29,368 posts)The teacher told the truth.
I figured out the Santa thing when I was first grade, and I still always enjoyed Xmas, and thought it was fun and magical.
The teacher shouldn't have been disciplined for this.
whathehell
(30,468 posts)were allowed to figure it out YOURSELF. Big difference.
I suspect this teacher will be finding another occupation shortly
and I'd say that's a good thing.
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)That would be much more harmful than if the parents had told the children themselves, in response to children's questions.
No teacher should take it upon himself or herself to interfere with this family tradition.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Believing in Santa was one of the most magical things in my childhood, and in my kids' too. As we all know, there are about a million ways to evade the question if asked directly without having to "lie".
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)The teacher could also say:
"You know your dog doesn't really go to Heaven when it dies, don't you?"
And other unsavory truths, but WHY? To KINDERGARTEN kids?
sarisataka
(22,695 posts)who would support the teacher if she said:
"You don't go to heaven when you die either. They will put you in the ground and worms will eat your body."
After all she told the "truth"
whathehell
(30,468 posts)obamanut2012
(29,368 posts)duffyduff
(3,251 posts)The stupid teacher had no business shooting off her stupid mouth.
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)msongs
(73,752 posts)avebury
(11,196 posts)world I never had two legged children (I prefer the four legged variety
because I would never raise a child to believe in Santa. Instead, I would focus on the true meaning of Christmas. Any child of mine would have been the one telling his/her class there is no such thing as Santa.
I would encourage imagination and make believe, just no in the area of Santa.
Flying Goat
(2 posts)Isn't it to put the retail industry ahead for the year?
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)although I asked my kids not to tell their friends, who still believed.
But when a child says it, it's like they're letting the other kids in on a special secret. Everybody can feel one-up on the grown-ups.
When a teacher tells kids their parents have been lying to them, it's putting the teacher and the parents at odds -- not a good thing to do.
lbrtbell
(2,389 posts)I suspected Santa was B.S. So at the age of 4, I stayed up all night waiting for him. My family couldn't believe it the next day, when I confronted them about lying to me.
MineralMan
(151,267 posts)njcamden_25884
(27 posts)poor kids. Must be tough facing reality.
obamanut2012
(29,368 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 12, 2012, 01:59 AM - Edit history (1)
Unless you want their parents to hate you.
kiva
(4,373 posts)If they aren't your kids it isn't OK - it's really not up to you to decide how and when other people's kids learn about this stuff. If they are adults and still believe in Santa, go for it.
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)after asking, "None of you believe in Santa, do you?"
0rganism
(25,644 posts)The idea, as I understand it (wasn't raised Xian myself) is that when the child reaches about 8 or 9, if they haven't already figured it out, is the parents tell them and then they start helping with putting out presents for their younger siblings. This enables the transition from "mythical flying judgeman in a red suit" Santa to "spirit of Holiday giving" Santa, which is more appropriate for mature people and justifies the whole bizarre holiday shopping season. The little kids have magical kiddy fun and the older children learn something about caring and responsibility for their families.
For a Kindergarten *babysitter* to break the news out of some kind of personal vendetta does make a farce of the whole process. In short, it wasn't a pointless lie until she made it into one. Damn straight, if I was a parent, I'd be pissed at her too.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)It's a magical time. Nobody wants humorless grim child-haters to ruin it.
pnwmom
(110,260 posts)I was briefly disappointed. Then I became "Santa's helper" and enjoyed keeping the fun alive for a few more years.
My brother, the youngest, said he pretended to believe for quite a while, because he wanted to make sure the Santa train didn't end.
Tumbulu
(6,630 posts)thanks, that is how it works around here as well.
Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)depending on which side of my family was telling the story, but when we kids figured it out we were told two things:
A) Santa is in your heart blah blah blah
B) DO NOT spoil it for the younger siblings and cousins and schoolmates.
There were a lot of other traumas awaiting me in life; learning that Santa was "not real" was not one of them.
And anyway, I still believe.
P.S. I have a little FSM waiting to go in the manger
deutsey
(20,166 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)Oh, I see she's an after-school worker? Sorry - she is maybe more of a babysitter than teacher.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)My oldest believed in santa only until she was 4. She's a smart one. The little one is almost 4 and is in full belief mode.
I wouldn't go to any extremes or outright lie to them. If they ask is Santa is real (as the older one did at 4), I ask, "What do you think?" She said she thought it was probably pretend, and I said, that's right but it's a lot of fun and you can keep playing the game if you want. And she did for a few years after that.
It's just a bit of fun.
I wouldn't like it if a teacher made a big issue of it and told the whole class Santa isn't real just because she had an opinion about the issue and thought parents shouldn't do the whole Santa thing, but on the other hand if my daughter had asked a teacher instead of me, I don't see why it would be an issue if the teacher had told her the truth instead of me. I wouldn't want the teacher to outright lie to my child either. I'd say either gently tell the truth, or else tell the child to ask me, but either seems like an acceptable way to handle it.
yawnmaster
(2,812 posts)gifts for her.
That is why Santa never visited her house and why she thinks parents actually buy all the gifts.
RegieRocker
(4,226 posts)Teaching kids......not teaching common sense that is for sure....
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)By talking about gravity...
That said, five is borderline for both. Kids have a heck of a time telling real from fantasy at five...it is basic child development.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Santa is real. That silly teacher, doesn't she believe in the tooth fairy? I'd say at least she is a fan of Mr. Scrooge.
mfcorey1
(11,134 posts)Tsiyu
(18,186 posts)For excellence in thread title.
I lol'd
Liberal_in_LA
(44,397 posts)gordianot
(15,772 posts)NiteOwll
(191 posts)I have major trust issues. I've never been able to trust my parents, especially. Whenever they tell me good news, I wonder if they're deliberately trying to hurt me with a lie.
Gimme a break.
I will always believe in Santa Claus. And now I'm the one putting the gifts under the tree on Christmas Eve. I feel sorry for people who have no wonder and imagination in their lives.