Serious question about US spying agencies.

[Grown2Hate]

I keep hearing about Musk's secret conversations with Putin, and that Trump has spoken with Putin 7 times since leaving office.

I get that it may be more complicated with a former President, but at least with Musk, wouldn't the CIA (or some other intelligence agency) be tracking conversations like these with hostile foreign agents (especially after they just openly admit to it)? More so if you're a giant contractor for the US Government?

Again, serious question because I'm somewhat ignorant on the subject and wonder if I'm just missing something.

[stumpysbear]

1. If Putin is having conversations with US citizens,

no matter who they are, NSA has not only the transcripts, but the audio recordings.

[Gaugamela]

2. Absolutely. It might well come back to haunt him.

The NSA sees all.

[lapfog_1]

3. yes they would

but disclosing that fact or what was said... that is a different matter

[dutch777]

4. Domestic spying by US on its citizens is against the law no matter who it is unless there is a FISA or other warrant.

I am sharing from the NSA view which are the folks most directly tasked with monitoring electronic communications in all forms. That all said however, if there may be a warrant those communications could be monitored and recorded for later prosecutorial action. Not widely known though, folks we might be interested in, but can't technically listen in on due to aforementioned law, could completely legally be monitored by other governments who are friendly and they might just say, "hey, guess what we heard the other day?". UK, Australia. the US and others routinely work around their domestic spying restrictions by sharing each others' intercepts when queries are made. I suspect given the "buzz' around this, queries have been made. The agency I worked for affiliated with NSA had an unofficial motto that was "In God we trust, all others, we monitor".

[stumpysbear]

8. US citizens can't be targeted for surveillance, true

But overseas foreign nationals are fair game. These conversations with us citizens are routinely collected and analyzed as authorized by law. The us person just cannot be the target.

What action the IC or FBI can take on the us person based on intelligence gathered under Section 702 is more complicated.

[BannonsLiver]

5. I think it would more likely be the NSA that would be monitoring him.

But either way I’m guessing his shenanigans are well known to the intelligence community.

[Grown2Hate]

6. Thank you for the helpful responses, all!

[paleotn]

7. Rest assured, if those conversations took place, they were intercepted.

That's the relatively easy part and something US intel is extraordinarily well equipped for. The kind of money we spend on intel every year buys a whole cornucopia of capabilities. The tricky part is doing something about it when one half of the conversation is a US citizen. That can get messy. No crime to call up Vlad and just discuss the weather in Moscow. Hard to believe anyone in their right mind would say..."hey, Vlad, lets discuss our plan to bring down the US government!" Then again, the hubris of these people astounds me. And it's hubris that usually puts people in jail.

[duncang]

9. Tfg is a private citizen

So his conversations with Putin would fall under the same category.

[Talitha]

10. Thanks for starting this discussion, I've often wondered the same things.

[jmowreader]

11. Musk is a United States citizen, at least for now

According to the various laws and regulations governing intelligence collection, you must go with a by-name request to the Attorney General of the United States, and get approval from that specific official, before you can collect intelligence in which a US national is involved. Before you can make a request you've got to have significant proof from other sources that the person you want to target is an agent of a foreign power. They are fussy as hell about this. We had to go through training every six months on this subject.

This is how stringent this is: We were having one of these classes and I asked the instructor, who was an Agency attorney, this question: "If I learn that the Red Army Faction (one of the most prolific European terrorist cells) is going to blow up the McDonald's on the Ku-damm in half an hour, can I put 'McDonald's' in my report?" The answer was that under normal circumstances you can't because McDonald's is a US person but in emergency cases like the one I named the important thing is to keep the Red Army Faction from completing its attack so it would be allowed. (Given that, Musk just trying to overthrow the United States would have to go through the AG, and the AG can be nimble when he has to.)

[moondust]

12. Russia using Starlink.

~
Until 2023, the Russian military did not have access to a Starlink-like equivalent, giving the Ukrainian military an advantage.[44]

In February 2024, Ukraine's Defence intelligence said to have confirmed the use of Starlink satellite communications by Russian forces in occupied areas of Ukraine.[126][127] According to Ukrainian military, Russian troops had been communicating over the Starlink system for "quite a long time" and were now using thousands of Starlink terminals.[128] For instance, by Russia's 83rd Air Assault Brigade near Andriivka and Klishchiivka in the Donetsk.[129][126]
~
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War

U.S. intel has likely been paying attention.