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WarGamer

(18,613 posts)
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 03:44 PM Nov 2024

We lost (some of) the black men, the Hispanics, the youth and the first time voters.

Please note... all groups we are historically STRONG with.

Please... major introspection and Party leaders take note.

I know why... but so do they. Listen to Fetterman.

Note:

Trump got around 25% black males, won with first time voters, highest Latino support ever (40%+) and improvement with under 30's...

81 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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We lost (some of) the black men, the Hispanics, the youth and the first time voters. (Original Post) WarGamer Nov 2024 OP
Uh oh.... Libosaurus Nov 2024 #1
uh huh Skittles Nov 2024 #6
So what did Fetterman say? Jersey Devil Nov 2024 #2
I think you're missing the big picture. TwilightZone Nov 2024 #3
Men under 30s right, not women? AkFemDem Nov 2024 #4
trump improved with 18-29 by 6% from 2020 WarGamer Nov 2024 #5
Im seeing different data AkFemDem Nov 2024 #12
You're right... I probably read the Trump +6% stat as the line WarGamer Nov 2024 #15
Wapo has 18-29 54/43 for Harris. TwilightZone Nov 2024 #14
I corrected it... I'd seen the Trump gained stats and thought it was for 2024.. not improvement rom 2020 WarGamer Nov 2024 #19
That's a drop compared to 2020. LisaL Nov 2024 #50
Good comparison 2020/2024 AkFemDem Nov 2024 #9
53% of white women voted for Trump. TwilightZone Nov 2024 #13
Well of course 53% of white women should have voted for Harris but.... AkFemDem Nov 2024 #23
If only women were allowed to vote, Kamala would have won. LisaL Nov 2024 #49
There are more White women than any other group other than White men. Yavin4 Nov 2024 #70
Nope, no deal. AkFemDem Nov 2024 #75
The stats AkFemDem Nov 2024 #76
Young women too TheProle Nov 2024 #18
College Campuses Homoudont Nov 2024 #53
"Everything we did was totally fine. No notes!" Sympthsical Nov 2024 #7
I'll take a 21st Century Bill Clinton. WarGamer Nov 2024 #11
100% agree TwilightZone Nov 2024 #17
Yep. orange jar Nov 2024 #22
Biden did focus on pocketbook issues and his poll numbers were radius777 Nov 2024 #69
But Trump was sending out such lovely messages to these same people Redleg Nov 2024 #28
Some people sounded the warnings of what was happening sarisataka Nov 2024 #32
Recommended. H2O Man Nov 2024 #8
Repugs have had 4 years to plot onetexan Nov 2024 #10
She had a disadvantage buuuuuuuut... AkFemDem Nov 2024 #16
Harris did not pick up an already planned campaign. yardwork Nov 2024 #25
Harris working hard isn't in doubt. Her short campaign is also not why she lost. AkFemDem Nov 2024 #26
But she never went through primary. LisaL Nov 2024 #47
Were are recently 0 for 2 with non-incumbent candidates that were not properly primaried. Jk23 Nov 2024 #51
Remember Trump and "Moses" had a secret plan? Autumn Nov 2024 #55
This is what we're seeing as the biggest problem Jason1961 Nov 2024 #20
My FIL, a brilliant anesthesiologist and an intellectual, told his grandson my hubby that 98% of the population are onetexan Nov 2024 #41
Dude, the Working class male broke for Nixon in 1968. Tommymac Nov 2024 #42
You can't tell people oh you're duped you're just stupid Jk23 Nov 2024 #74
It's a little too early to analyze data, which is still coming in. yardwork Nov 2024 #21
Its$The$Economy$Every$Time AkFemDem Nov 2024 #29
I guess he did moose65 Nov 2024 #81
Agreed. We're just swatting at flies right now. Redleg Nov 2024 #30
That is certainly true. yardwork Nov 2024 #37
Good observations Redleg Nov 2024 #46
Months ago we ignored/denied reports of demographic shifts sarisataka Nov 2024 #24
Black support including black men seems to have held standingtall Nov 2024 #27
this is what I have WarGamer Nov 2024 #31
I am not seeing those figures for Black voters. yardwork Nov 2024 #38
most demographics tilted right... and yes too early to precisely make the post-mortem. WarGamer Nov 2024 #39
Any increases in Black voters for Trumps appear to be only because of Black men. LisaL Nov 2024 #48
BM overwhelmingly supported her Dem4life1234 Nov 2024 #33
If White women voted in the same percentages as Black men AS THEY SHOULD HAVE... Yavin4 Nov 2024 #71
misinformation and conspiracy theory influencers in foreign languages dsp3000 Nov 2024 #34
Outside of Latinos and first-time voters, your summaries are incorrect for black men and youth using NBC exit polls andym Nov 2024 #35
A 5% gain here, another there, can make or break LeftInTX Nov 2024 #36
Those two demographics jump out at me, too. yardwork Nov 2024 #40
The irony here is, most of these immigrants (Latinos, Asians, etc.) jrthin Nov 2024 #56
Maybe we begin publicly shaming racists and bigots. yardwork Nov 2024 #57
Shaming people is the wrong direction Elmotime Nov 2024 #58
Who said anything about yelling insults? yardwork Nov 2024 #59
Family on the right Elmotime Nov 2024 #61
I'm not making myself clear. yardwork Nov 2024 #63
"Maybe we begin publicly shaming racists and bigots." MichMan Nov 2024 #78
Yes. yardwork Nov 2024 #79
Certainly not all Asians are racist. Half my family is Asian and not all jrthin Nov 2024 #62
Thank you. yardwork Nov 2024 #64
Your impression is correct. And, jrthin Nov 2024 #66
It's not going to be easy to speak up, but it's our only hope. yardwork Nov 2024 #67
The majority were born here and did not leave other countries. MichMan Nov 2024 #80
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2024 #43
Except that never happened. Why flood this place with RW disinfo? FSogol Nov 2024 #44
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2024 #45
It's the economy. PennRalphie Nov 2024 #52
"I am your retribution" Fish700 Nov 2024 #54
I think there's a lot of truth in this. yardwork Nov 2024 #65
Hard Truths Aepps22 Nov 2024 #60
It's the "first time voters" that blows my mind... Jack Valentino Nov 2024 #68
They think their lives suck and Trump can make them better. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2024 #72
It's the White vote. Cross tabs analysis are coping mechanisms to escape accountability. Yavin4 Nov 2024 #73
This. yardwork Nov 2024 #77

TwilightZone

(28,836 posts)
3. I think you're missing the big picture.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 03:51 PM
Nov 2024

Trump made gains in nearly every demographic group.

I'm sure Pew or Gallup will put together a postmortem similar to what was done in 2020. That should provide a bigger picture of the extent to which voters shifted to the right.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/

As an aside, last I saw, it was 20% of black men and 54% of Latino men, though perhaps they have been updated.

 

AkFemDem

(2,508 posts)
4. Men under 30s right, not women?
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 03:51 PM
Nov 2024

I see one thing all these groups mentioned have in common....

 

AkFemDem

(2,508 posts)
12. Im seeing different data
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 03:55 PM
Nov 2024
https://www.nbcwashington.com/decision-2024/2024-voter-turnout-election-demographics-trump-harris/3762138/

In the overall 18-29, Harris won, but by less than Biden did (and this would probably reflect the under age 30 male shift I've seen in other exit polls)

WarGamer

(18,613 posts)
19. I corrected it... I'd seen the Trump gained stats and thought it was for 2024.. not improvement rom 2020
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:00 PM
Nov 2024
 

AkFemDem

(2,508 posts)
9. Good comparison 2020/2024
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 03:54 PM
Nov 2024

Again, it seems to confirm the increase was male.

Is this a function of them running from a female candidate- or it is a function of the republican party simply representing the values that more men find important?

None of this will be easy introspection.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/decision-2024/2024-voter-turnout-election-demographics-trump-harris/3762138/

TwilightZone

(28,836 posts)
13. 53% of white women voted for Trump.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 03:56 PM
Nov 2024

That should break the pattern.

Men are a primary factor in Trump's win, of course, but white women certainly didn't help our cause as much as many expected.

 

AkFemDem

(2,508 posts)
23. Well of course 53% of white women should have voted for Harris but....
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:02 PM
Nov 2024

53% of white women (and 44% of all women voters overall) are a lot fewer votes than 54% of men of all races- not giving men a free pass on this, sorry.

 

Yavin4

(37,182 posts)
70. There are more White women than any other group other than White men.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:53 PM
Nov 2024

If White women voted in the exact same percentages as Black men did, Harris would've won in a 50-state landslide. Black men supported Harris overall more than men of all other races. Do not lump Black men into your diatribe.

 

AkFemDem

(2,508 posts)
75. Nope, no deal.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 03:04 PM
Nov 2024

Men are not getting off the hook.

White women, and to a lesser extent hispanic women, have their own share of the blame but MEN ARE NOT EXCUSED!!!!!! PERIOD.

 

AkFemDem

(2,508 posts)
76. The stats
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 03:07 PM
Nov 2024

"According to CNN's exit poll, there was around a 10-point gender gap between men and women voting for Trump, with 42 percent of men and 53 percent of women voting for Harris while 55 percent of men and 45 percent of women voted for Trump. But these numbers aren't shocking.

The gap was larger for Latino and black voters than it was for white voters. Sixty percent of white men and 53 percent of white women voted for Trump. Meanwhile, there was a 14-point gap in black men's and women's support for Harris, with 21 percent of black men and 7 percent of black women voting for Trump. Latino voters had a 17-point gender gap, with 55 percent of Latino men and 38 percent of Latina women supporting Trump."

https://reason.com/2024/11/08/was-2024-the-gender-gap-election/

TheProle

(3,982 posts)
18. Young women too
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 03:59 PM
Nov 2024
Trump picked up a larger portion of voters under 30 than any Republican presidential candidate since 2008, according to NBC News exit polling, improving with both young men and young women. In 2020, President Joe Biden beat Trump by 11 percentage points among young men; this year, Trump beat Kamala Harris by 2 points. Among young women, Biden’s 35-point lead over Trump in 2020 shrunk to a 24-point lead for Harris. Among young white men without college degrees, Trump beat Harris, 56% to 40%.


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/yes-trump-improved-young-men-drew-young-women-rcna179019

Homoudont

(108 posts)
53. College Campuses
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 10:08 AM
Nov 2024

I've seen videos of the college campus out west and in the south celebrating Trump's win. Thousands of college aged kids running up and down the streets chanting USA. Riley Gaines did a college tour across the US and packed every venue. Losing any % of the college aged vote is devasting. The Democratic party really needs to do a deep dive into the stats and correct what's wrong.

Sympthsical

(10,969 posts)
7. "Everything we did was totally fine. No notes!"
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 03:54 PM
Nov 2024

If Tuesday wasn’t a call for self-reflection and - for the love of everything holy - self-awareness, this isn’t going to be the only electoral disappointment we face in the coming years.

People don’t hear themselves, but voters hear them just fine.

I told and told and told people about how Latinos were receiving our messages, and people insisted - and are still insisting - on talking to them as a group as if they all just crossed the Rio Grande.

It is gob smacking that people are that oblivious to how they sound. That bubble has some fucking thick ass insulation.

TwilightZone

(28,836 posts)
17. 100% agree
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 03:59 PM
Nov 2024

Remember Biden talking about people getting out of their silos?

He wasn't just referring to those on the right.

orange jar

(878 posts)
22. Yep.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:01 PM
Nov 2024

I was admittedly optimistic early on in the night, albeit harboring some concerns. Trump's win confirmed something that I think is an underrated turn off to most "average" Americans — the belief that certain demographics are certain to vote for Harris/Dems is showing itself to be increasingly flawed. The economy was undoubtedly the greatest factor, but I think a lot of minorities are getting sick of what they view as identity politics. They think it's cynical and inauthentic.

I think, for now on, our strategy needs to be prioritizing simple, straightforward pocketbook and kitchen table issues first and foremost. Then, once elected into office, we can advocate for liberal social and cultural policies. Social policy is important, but they don't seem to motivate voters to fully support a candidate.

radius777

(3,921 posts)
69. Biden did focus on pocketbook issues and his poll numbers were
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:50 PM
Nov 2024

were terrible - he would've lost much worse than Harris did - who did herself speak to pocketbook issues and did not focus on identity.

Illegal immigration, crime and inflation - that's what moved working class voters rightward even in blue states.

Keep in mind that Bill Clinton and Obama were viewed to be strong on the border, and presided over economies that regular people felt worked for them, where cost of living and prices were low.

Redleg

(6,922 posts)
28. But Trump was sending out such lovely messages to these same people
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:08 PM
Nov 2024

How can our messaging ever compete with "immediate mass deportations," "they're eating the cats and dogs," "China will pay the tariffs," and "your body, our choice" if that is what these people voted for?

I agree that we do need to improve our messaging. I also think that some of these fucking people are unreachable if they bought into Trump's bullshit.

sarisataka

(22,695 posts)
32. Some people sounded the warnings of what was happening
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:12 PM
Nov 2024

but the reply was "This isn't 2016" and they walked on oblivious in their world where victory was inevitable.

 

AkFemDem

(2,508 posts)
16. She had a disadvantage buuuuuuuut...
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 03:58 PM
Nov 2024

Come on, she was picking up a campaign that was already funded, staffed, and planned. It's not like we plucked her up from a booth at TGI Fridays and said, "You're it! Good luck!"

yardwork

(69,364 posts)
25. Harris did not pick up an already planned campaign.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:02 PM
Nov 2024

Her campaign was quite different than Biden's had been. She worked really hard.

LisaL

(47,423 posts)
47. But she never went through primary.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 09:45 AM
Nov 2024

She wasn't "vetted" so to speak to see how well she does with actual voters.
Biden was forced to step down because he was old and supposedly un-popular. But there was no indication Kamala was any more popular at the time, or had a better approval rating. And she had to go against both racism and misogyny. So it was an uphill battle.

 

Jk23

(455 posts)
51. Were are recently 0 for 2 with non-incumbent candidates that were not properly primaried.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 09:51 AM
Nov 2024

We need to make sure that our candidates are tested properly.

Jason1961

(461 posts)
20. This is what we're seeing as the biggest problem
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:00 PM
Nov 2024

VP Harris had the shortest campaign in modern history, we barely had time for people to get to know her platform.

This wasn't the only reason, it appears that working class voters were duped into voting against their own best interest, we can either find a way to make them smart enough to see through the Republican's message (unlikely) or we figure out ways to tailor our own message to bring them back where they belong

onetexan

(13,913 posts)
41. My FIL, a brilliant anesthesiologist and an intellectual, told his grandson my hubby that 98% of the population are
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 06:52 PM
Nov 2024

not smart. Seems he's right.

I will also add that the US is still very much a patriarchy. Many, both male & female, would prefer to vote for a know-nothing demented felon over an eminently qualified woman, a Black and Indian woman at that. The misogyny & cultural bias is deeply ingrained in many.

Tommymac

(7,334 posts)
42. Dude, the Working class male broke for Nixon in 1968.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 08:12 PM
Nov 2024

Not much has changed since.

They don't think they belong here - stick it to the Libtards no matter what.

Raygun. Twice.
Bush 2. Twice.
Trump. Twice.

I ain't talking about the middle class btw. I am talking about Joe and Jane Sixpack - the working class, the lower class. Chock full of Black, Latino and White males under 50, brimming with hormones, anger stoked by Fox News, and open to hate.

Pick any local neighborhood dive bar in the Pittsburgh region and you can talk to them yourself. They are legion.

BTW, it is not just on them - it is on our Party to really do some self examination and figure out why we are not appealing to them.

FDR figured it out - maybe we need to go back and look at what the Party was then and how he did it.

Not that it will matter politically for a long time. I don't expect that there will be a free and fair election again in the US in my lifetime.

But regardless, we need to start fighting back - and information is the key.




 

Jk23

(455 posts)
74. You can't tell people oh you're duped you're just stupid
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 02:08 PM
Nov 2024

It doesn't work.

Stick with bread and butter economic issues minimum wage home insurance car insurance Healthcare retirement funds.

Put identity and gender Politics on the same Iceberg we're going to put the consultant that recommended Lynn Cheney Co campaign with our candidate.

It's the economy and crime and safety and rule of law everything else we can worry about once we win.

yardwork

(69,364 posts)
21. It's a little too early to analyze data, which is still coming in.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:01 PM
Nov 2024

Exit polls indicate a string swing to Trump among Hispanics, especially Hispanic men. I'm not seeing a strong swing by Black men.There was a significant swing to Trump by Asians and young people, but not nearly as strong as the apparent Hispanic swing.

I'm reading that every state except CO showed a right wing swing toward Trump, compared to 2020. If that's true, we have to figure out why. Was Democratic turnout down? Did some people switch their support from Biden in 2020 to Trump this year?

It's too soon to make definite conclusions.

 

AkFemDem

(2,508 posts)
29. Its$The$Economy$Every$Time
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:09 PM
Nov 2024

We can laud job markets and point out how the fed handles interest rates and who is actually responsible for inflation etc etc etc but when people can't afford groceries, that is their own personal analysis of the economy, that is how they judge if the country is "doing okay". We can mock people for not understanding the nuances, but being right doesn't really matter when people are trying to pay their bills. Trump capitalized on that pain and fear rather than telling them "everything's actually really great!" and it worked.

moose65

(3,454 posts)
81. I guess he did
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 04:12 PM
Nov 2024

But, did he give them any plans to bring down those prices? I never heard anything.

Redleg

(6,922 posts)
30. Agreed. We're just swatting at flies right now.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:09 PM
Nov 2024

Anyway, the MSM and the MAGATs will determine the narrative, not us.

yardwork

(69,364 posts)
37. That is certainly true.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 05:26 PM
Nov 2024

For instance, while I understand that prices are a concern and motivator to a lot of Americans, the MSM helps create the public's focus on that issues, while ignoring that gas prices are low, for instance.

Is it that food prices are "too high" (a highly subjective measure) or are wages too low? Looking at trends, the cost of a lot of things in the U.S. used to be much lower in relation to wages. Those products actually cost more, taking into account overall inflation. TVs now cost less than they did 20 years ago. Things like toasters and blenders used to be made in America and their prices plummeted when manufacturing moved overseas. Literal slaves, children working in sweatshops, people working for pennies a day - this led to Americans' insatiable appetite for more and more relatively cheap things.

When I was a child in the 1960s, blue collar workers could afford to raise a family on one income, owning a house and car. There were many fewer toys and gadgets, people had fewer clothes, and they cooked at home with a relatively short list of available ingredients.

I'm not saying it's bad to have a wide array of options at the grocery store, but it is bad that wages haven't kept up with costs, and instead, American consumers got used to having a lot of cheap junk to keep us distracted.

The Republicans created this imbalance, and Trump will greatly increase the divide between the very wealthy and most everybody else, who will continue to be squeezed and who will be told by the MSM and GOP that it's all the Democrats' fault.

Redleg

(6,922 posts)
46. Good observations
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 09:42 AM
Nov 2024

The MSM doesn't know how to on report economic issues or on Trump and MAGA. Add to that the fact that Joe Biden's policies and actions had very little to do with rising inflation. People keep telling us that we need to craft a better message so that the masses will understand but it seems to me there is a great deal of economics illiteracy in this county that makes renders ineffective such attempts.

Our economy does seem designed to favor the investor class over the working class, and this shift has been happening since WWII and has become more more pronounced since the financial sector has grown in dominance, and with financial deregulation, has brought about major crises to our economic order (i.e., the tech bubble in the late 90's, the sub-prime housing fiasco in the 2000s).

I like the Democratic message of creating an economy that works for all workers. This message is simple and optimistic and should resonate with many Americans. Unfortunately, the message was undermined by rising costs attibutable to supply chain problems, some price gouging, the MSM's piss-poor reporting, and Trump's constant running-down of the economy.

sarisataka

(22,695 posts)
24. Months ago we ignored/denied reports of demographic shifts
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:02 PM
Nov 2024

away from the Democratic party; I would like to think we will learn but I am pessimistic.

standingtall

(3,148 posts)
27. Black support including black men seems to have held
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:07 PM
Nov 2024

A 1% drop from 2020 is not what I would call losing black males, especially when it's offset by a 2% increase in black female support.

White people including white men and women and the 13 point drop in Latino support is what killed us. Along with the 12 to 15 million voters from 2020 that didn't vote in this election.

WarGamer

(18,613 posts)
31. this is what I have
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:11 PM
Nov 2024
Although Trump didn’t win a majority of either group, he won support from about 13% of Black voters nationally and 45% of Latino voters, according to CNN exit polls. In the 2020 election, Trump won just 8% of Black voters and 32% of Latinos.

And those numbers were higher in swing states

yardwork

(69,364 posts)
38. I am not seeing those figures for Black voters.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 05:31 PM
Nov 2024

Harris's support among Black women increased by 2% more than 2020, and it looks like her support from Black men dropped only 1%. Now, I'm not sure about turnout. However, blaming this loss on Black voters is WAY wrong. Harris would have won in a landslide of epic proportions if only Black people voted.

As I said upthread, it's too early to draw conclusions. The data is still coming in.

WarGamer

(18,613 posts)
39. most demographics tilted right... and yes too early to precisely make the post-mortem.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 05:34 PM
Nov 2024

Dem4life1234

(2,533 posts)
33. BM overwhelmingly supported her
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:13 PM
Nov 2024

How many voters did the orange beast pick up?

I get sick of these narratives. Frankly I am sick of the attacks on BM and people wanting to start some kind of drama. She held strong with them.

If you want to look at real data, ask why many Latinos supported the thug? Leave BM alone.

 

Yavin4

(37,182 posts)
71. If White women voted in the same percentages as Black men AS THEY SHOULD HAVE...
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:55 PM
Nov 2024

Harris wins in a 50 state landslide.

dsp3000

(685 posts)
34. misinformation and conspiracy theory influencers in foreign languages
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:15 PM
Nov 2024

circulating in immigrant communities is something that is underreported and needs to be addressed!

andym

(6,066 posts)
35. Outside of Latinos and first-time voters, your summaries are incorrect for black men and youth using NBC exit polls
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:26 PM
Nov 2024

You should include actual data in your OP.

Using this data source:
https://www.nbcwashington.com/decision-2024/2024-voter-turnout-election-demographics-trump-harris/3762138/
Did you use a different one?

Black Men 19% for Trump 2020, 20% 2024 -- 1% change is not significant at ALL

Youth 18-29: 36% for Trump in 2020, 42% in 2024--- 6% change is somewhat significant, but most 55% still voted Harris (down from 60%). First time voters may actually overlap with this category.


You are correct with these groups:

First-time voters:
Trump went from 32 in 2020 to 54% in 2024 -- a gain of 22% VERY significant. The question is why? Youth or Elon Musk's outreach?

Hispanics:
Trump went from 32 to 45%-- a gain of 13% also VERY significant.Why?

LeftInTX

(34,302 posts)
36. A 5% gain here, another there, can make or break
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 04:40 PM
Nov 2024

Although, he did not "win" all the demographics, getting increased support was a big factor.

yardwork

(69,364 posts)
40. Those two demographics jump out at me, too.
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 05:41 PM
Nov 2024

Also, the Asian vote seems to have shifted pretty significantly toward Trump.

I have theories... the youth vote is influenced very strongly by their experience of the economy and sense of not being able to keep up. (The reasons for this are all the fault of Republicans, infuriatingly.) They're online and listen to podcasts. Very easy to influence this group through social media, because they feel disenfranchised- and they are, thanks to decades of GOP policies going back to Reagan.

Hispanic vote - this is an area where Democrats may have really messed up. Hispanics are not a cohesive bloc. Many of them have been Americans for generations and Trump's rhetoric about illegal immigrants resonates with them. Trump called Harris a communist. That scares people fleeing many Latin American countries. Many Americans ignore Latino culture in the U.S. and it keeps biting us. Democrats need to vastly improve outreach to all the major Latino groups. They're different and they have different motivations.

Asian vote - many Asian Americans are quite conservative, socially and politically.

The fact is, Democrats have welcomed people from all over the world, often fighting against Republican xenophobia to champion immigration - and now that they're citizens, many of these folks are becoming Republicans!

jrthin

(5,225 posts)
56. The irony here is, most of these immigrants (Latinos, Asians, etc.)
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:29 AM
Nov 2024

Leave their countries because of oppression, lack of personal freedom, lack of financial opportunities, to come to America to gain those things. Yet they turn around and vote for politicians who will make this country similar to the ones they left. Also, many Latinos consider themselves to be white. And sadly, many share the same racists opinions as their white American counterparts. I don't know how we reach this type of racism that we've yet to reach with white Americans born here. Additionally, when we speak about Asians being conservative socially and politically, what we failed to flush out is many of them also have racists beliefs which we normalize by saying that they are politically and socially conservatives. How do we appeal to those racists beliefs when we can't appeal to American born whites?

yardwork

(69,364 posts)
57. Maybe we begin publicly shaming racists and bigots.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:41 AM
Nov 2024

I'm not going to say that most Asians are racist because I have no reason to think that's true. The fact is that a majority of Asian voters supported Harris. (As opposed to a majority of white voters, who supported Trump.)

What I'm going to do is speak up more loudly in real life. I'm going to start pointing out times when Republican policies and laws hurt me. This is going to strain some relationships with acquaintances. Too bad. They're getting a lot of disinformation online and through TV and radio. I only have one way to fight back.

 

Elmotime

(20 posts)
58. Shaming people is the wrong direction
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:49 AM
Nov 2024

You aren't going to win hearts or minds by yelling insults. That has not worked so well. When Trump spent all of his time ranting and raving over the "stolen election" he only lost ground. It feels good to vent and point fingers but it is an electoral loser

yardwork

(69,364 posts)
59. Who said anything about yelling insults?
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:54 AM
Nov 2024

That's not my style. (At least in real life!) However, I disagree that winning hearts and minds by ignoring racist and bigoted statements is a winning strategy. It's clearly not working.

Also, Trump yells insults and a majority of the voters supported him. He lost no ground. I'm not going to act like Trump but I AM going to start bringing up "awkward" topics in polite conversations.

 

Elmotime

(20 posts)
61. Family on the right
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 12:08 PM
Nov 2024

I can tell you my (R) family members complain that they've been called racists and sexists for years and they won't even consider anything beyond what the feel are personal insults. The negativity is alienating...feels good to do.... but alienating

I'm new here and probably a bit outside this bubble living in the deep south

yardwork

(69,364 posts)
63. I'm not making myself clear.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 12:24 PM
Nov 2024

I'm not suggesting that we call people racists and sexists. What I'm saying is that when I hear someone say something Trumpy, I'm not going to ignore it. I'm going to politely speak up and say that I disagree.

I'll give a recent example. I was at a friend's house for a large celebratory gathering. Her brother in law said that Medicare Advantage plans are bad. A number of us agreed. Then he said, "It's healthcare for all, it's just like Obamacare." This is, obviously, completely wrong. Medicare Advantage plans are a Republican policy that is the opposite of "healthcare for all." But none of us said anything. Didn't want to be impolite. I regret that. I now wish I'd said, "You know, I see Medicare Advantage plans as a giveaway to corporations that hurts people, as opposed to government healthcare, which you are recommending in the form of traditional Medicare." And I wish that I'd also said, "Traditional Medicare, which you recommend, was passed by Democrats and is protected by Democrats, despite Republican efforts to cut it."

Note that I'm not suggesting calling anybody names or labeling them. Nor am I too constrained by having to have every fact correct or I'm afraid to speak up. It's ok to say, "It's my impression that the Democratic Party supports traditional Medicare and the Republicans keep trying to privatize it, as they keep trying to privatize social security." Let them respond with their opinions and even correct my facts. That's a conversation.

We've feared having these conversations and our democracy is going down the drain.

jrthin

(5,225 posts)
62. Certainly not all Asians are racist. Half my family is Asian and not all
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 12:12 PM
Nov 2024

are racists. But enough of them are that they really can't see through the policy talk of this is hurting me, etc. Trust me, I've used reason to no avail. I get frustrated when I hear Asians and Latinos being described as socially and politically conservative and they are not called out the way right wingers are. For certainly their political and social conservatism mirror the same belief of lack or female reproductive rights, lack of LGBTQ rights, patriachay and racism. We've yet to reach right wingers who are white, I don't think we'll reach right wingers who are Asians and Latinos. Reaching out to them means we have to abandon our views that women's rights are equal rights and racism is wrong.

I do hear what you're saying, and in spite of what's written above, I say bravo to you for trying and being out there.

yardwork

(69,364 posts)
64. Thank you.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 12:30 PM
Nov 2024

It's my impression that people are getting away with ugly behavior - and I consider voting for Trump to be ugly behavior - because we Democrats are allowing it.

This permission state gets transferred into the media. Trump called Harris all kinds of vile things and there was no outrage. Biden stumbles over his words while defending Puerto Ricans and the media piled on for days.

People say, "Oh that's just Trump" and we let it go. We complain here on DU and among ourselves in safe spaces but we don't call up our Trumpy BIL and say, "You know, I'm disgusted that Trump called Kamala Harris a whore. What do you think about that?" Then let BIL say, "Oh, it's just Trump but what about prices." And then we can have a conversation where everything's on the table.

jrthin

(5,225 posts)
66. Your impression is correct. And,
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 12:47 PM
Nov 2024

What you've said rings true to me. But, again Yardwork, you seem willing to do the hard work, like calling out the BIL, most are not. Also, with the media, we do not have a level playing field. That is a big part of our disadvantage. And with billionaires buying up most of the media, we're now at a severe disadvantage. Let's take heart my friend.

yardwork

(69,364 posts)
67. It's not going to be easy to speak up, but it's our only hope.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 12:54 PM
Nov 2024

Thank you for your kind words.

MichMan

(17,151 posts)
80. The majority were born here and did not leave other countries.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 03:27 PM
Nov 2024

They consider themselves Americans first and foremost.

Response to WarGamer (Original post)

FSogol

(47,623 posts)
44. Except that never happened. Why flood this place with RW disinfo?
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 08:28 PM
Nov 2024

Enjoy your short stay.

Response to FSogol (Reply #44)

 

PennRalphie

(448 posts)
52. It's the economy.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 09:58 AM
Nov 2024

I’ve been talking about this for months. Kamala never focused on the economy. Her ads were all about not voting for trump. So many former Trump voters had already decided they weren’t voting for him. Instead of talking about this booming economy, she kept talking about him. It was so frustrating to watch.

The plumbers, electricians, fracking workers felt they were abandoned by Democrats. Hope it’s a lesson learned. K

I was very confident about her taking PA until Election Day. I had a meeting in a pretty red area. The lines to vote were unbelievably long. It’s then I got worried.

Happy to see this site up and running. I tried to access day after election and saw traffic was so high? It had to be restricted. Glad it’s back.


Fish700

(148 posts)
54. "I am your retribution"
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 10:08 AM
Nov 2024

I think many Americans are deeply disappointed that their lives don't live up to what they think they deserve based on their social media consumption and the "Leave it to Beaver" narrative the Right has been pushing for most of my lifetime. They voted the way they did because they want to punish the rest of us for that and make our lives just as disappointing. Telling them that everything was improving under President Biden and that what they felt was happening (grocery prices, etc.) was all in their heads or price gouging just enraged them more. He is their retribution because deep down inside they are spoiled children with unrealistic expectations.

yardwork

(69,364 posts)
65. I think there's a lot of truth in this.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 12:36 PM
Nov 2024

The reason I think you're right is that every Trump voter I know is well-off. They have professional jobs that pay well, or they're retired with very comfortable incomes from SS and real estate investments, etc. They are not particularly hurt by high prices and poor working conditions. They just like to complain and they're greedy for even more tax cuts.

Meanwhile, the young people I know who are actually hurting in this economy all voted for Harris. Yes, they're mad that things are so difficult and they're annoyed that the Democrats haven't done more, but they're informed enough to know the right decision with this binary choice.

I know my experience might not be representative but I suspect it is. For every poor person who was confused enough to vote for Trump there were ten well-educated, wealthy, socially powerful people who trotted down to the polls to vote for Trump even though they know better.

Aepps22

(383 posts)
60. Hard Truths
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 11:58 AM
Nov 2024

To be honest with all of you, I think we have to figure out a way to get our coalition to believe in the power of their vote and that their votes matter. For whatever Trump gained if most of our voters showed up, Kamala is more competitive and might have pulled it out. Republicans never have this problem because they will vote no matter what. I candidly think back to what would’ve happened to people that look like me (Black) if our ancestors didn’t fight and vote and vote until change happened. Change wasn’t an overnight thing but it came. I don’t see that same drive from many of the members of our coalition. If you skip local elections, only vote once every 4 years, complain that things didn’t change then refuse to vote again, I just don’t know what to do it. Because our coalition is so diverse we have to be willing to show up and vote even if we don’t get exactly what we want. This isn’t a messaging problem it is belief problem and it is the belief that voting doesn’t work.

DemocratSinceBirth

(101,853 posts)
72. They think their lives suck and Trump can make them better.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:55 PM
Nov 2024

I disagree but that's how they feel

 

Yavin4

(37,182 posts)
73. It's the White vote. Cross tabs analysis are coping mechanisms to escape accountability.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:57 PM
Nov 2024

There are more White voters than anyone else. He won a majority of the majority of voters. Quibbling over percentages of Black men is false analysis.

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