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appmanga

(1,055 posts)
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 12:40 AM Nov 2024

So many of us continue to live in denial...

...looking for all kinds of reasons why Harris didn't just lose, but lost in a stunning fashion. I wrote here months ago the "Biden's age" was the proxy for "that black lady who takes over if he dies". I can understand why it's difficult for so many to wrap their heads around the fact "inflation" became the replacement for that because it means admitting a truth that might be scary, painful, embarrassing, or all of the above.

Kamala Harris lost because of sexism, racism, and bigotry. It's just that simple. I underestimated the impact of the transgender prisoner ads, and I guess the campaign did too. While the black men who voted did vote for Harris in huge numbers, a lot of them, particularly in the South stayed home. Numbers from NC and GA are going to show that. There was already a cohort of Latino men who openly expressed they wouldn't vote for a woman for president, and those ads buttressed their reluctance. Areas known to have large Puerto Rican populations still went for Trump in spite of being insulted by his campaign.

People have become sophisticated enough to say things like "inflation", or "I don't know enough about her", or "I have to do my research" as opposed to channeling their inner Archie Bunker, but the conclusion is the same. This is why they polls don't reflect the results: people aren't obligated to tell the truth, so they don't. Trump has provided the permission structure and the attitude, and, as his supporters have said, he says what people really think. And he doesn't suffer any punishment for it. They can let their votes do their talking.

So if the result isn't making sense to you, it's because of the denial. The media continues to do it as well. When you come to the wrong conclusions you can't arrive at the right corrections.

84 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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So many of us continue to live in denial... (Original Post) appmanga Nov 2024 OP
Nikki Haley said it in a debate. onecaliberal Nov 2024 #1
"Biden's age" was the proxy for ... Bluetus Nov 2024 #2
yet "that black lady who takes over if he dies" was also true in 2020 when he beat Trump. thesquanderer Nov 2024 #38
That is a good point, for those who have some knowledge of the democratic process Bluetus Nov 2024 #74
The pandemic was a huge factor in 2020, I think. CrispyQ Nov 2024 #77
I don't recall the nonstop coverage of Biden's age in 2020 dpibel Nov 2024 #83
The winner. People don't have to tell the truth when asked - and they don't. harumph Nov 2024 #3
Considering her position on July 21st, I think they ran a great campaign Jarqui Nov 2024 #30
I assumed women would carry Kamala to victory Kaleva Nov 2024 #35
As a white female voter cannabis_flower Nov 2024 #42
Don't fall for the "price of eggs" bullshit. People are doing very well in this economy Yavin4 Nov 2024 #69
And a majority of adults are overweight Kaleva Nov 2024 #72
Wow serbbral Nov 2024 #84
Apparently stories about repub women being angry about Roe were overblown. ??? CrispyQ Nov 2024 #78
I think it was a combo of factors. Elessar Zappa Nov 2024 #4
It really wasn't. It was all about the GOP getting the MRA and incel vote via social media. valleyrogue Nov 2024 #12
Gen Z moved towards President Trump, moreso men but women as well as compared to those that supported kelly1mm Nov 2024 #28
once again Skittles Nov 2024 #14
Yes, it should be obvious. Elessar Zappa Nov 2024 #15
THAT is what all of us with critical thinking skills can agree on Skittles Nov 2024 #17
We could have acknowledged it more instead of saying it was better and just in peoples minds that things were bad, Pisces Nov 2024 #32
So do they think grocery prices are going to come down now. Trump cares about your grocery prices? Walleye Nov 2024 #56
Lets assume this is true for arguments sale. Lets ALSO look at Gen Z voters moving towards kelly1mm Nov 2024 #5
Joe Biden had a 39% to 41% approval ratining in exit polls. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2024 #6
Except, you know, Bush Jr., who, by 2004, had dismal approval ratings asm128 Nov 2024 #9
His appoval ratings in November of 2004 hovered around fifty percent. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2024 #11
yup Skittles Nov 2024 #18
In the immediate aftermath of the attack it hit 90% in Gallup. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2024 #22
that made me sick Skittles Nov 2024 #25
people are so freaking gullible ---This is our main problem. CrispyQ Nov 2024 #80
omg Skittles Nov 2024 #82
Nonsense. Knuckledraggers would have run to vote Sarah Palin leftstreet Nov 2024 #7
People forget Barack Obama won twice. DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2024 #8
he may have been the first black person to be president Skittles Nov 2024 #19
Skittles DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2024 #21
That's preposterously naive and out of touch Orrex Nov 2024 #24
No incumbent president DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2024 #31
what you are forgetting Skittles Nov 2024 #41
WOW, DSB! This: calimary Nov 2024 #45
what have repukes EVER done to make their lives better? Skittles Nov 2024 #49
How many of those incumbents were black women? Orrex Nov 2024 #61
"Who got me a cheaper bag of Doritos?" Yeah, it was that Adolf guy... Jack Valentino Nov 2024 #70
bullshit Skittles Nov 2024 #26
Obama was the first president to utilize the internet in a campaign tulipsandroses Nov 2024 #40
Remember in a speech Obama gave, sometime after Trump was prez, CrispyQ Nov 2024 #81
Not true. If it were true, why wasn't Nikki Haley the nominee? valleyrogue Nov 2024 #13
Denial is one of the 5 stages of grief Blue_Roses Nov 2024 #10
Good reminder, Blue_Roses. calimary Nov 2024 #47
We sure do. But, right now Blue_Roses Nov 2024 #50
I believe you, my friend. calimary Nov 2024 #52
What did the Republicans do right? tenderfoot Nov 2024 #16
They didn't run a black woman with a 2 month campaign, Pisces Nov 2024 #34
Bingo! nt cannabis_flower Nov 2024 #44
That's pretty harsh Blue_Roses Nov 2024 #51
She lost ground in every demographic save one Ontheboundry Nov 2024 #65
A 2 month campaign did her in. We needed a primary from the very beginning. Our blind spot was how Pisces Nov 2024 #73
One thing trump.does well Ontheboundry Nov 2024 #54
The best time to attack someone who's traumatized is while the trauma is still ongoing Orrex Nov 2024 #20
If YOU feel attacked, you're missing the point... appmanga Nov 2024 #62
The attacks are upon people feeling shattered by the election Orrex Nov 2024 #63
I appreciate critques and answers now, just take a break if you can't stand the heat Beringia Nov 2024 #66
See, even that framing is adversarial Orrex Nov 2024 #68
What do you mean by "a stunning fashion" nilram Nov 2024 #23
Casey Ontheboundry Nov 2024 #64
How many of us on DU are still working full time while trying to feed and clothe our kids? summer_in_TX Nov 2024 #27
No, they are reckless, stupid, assholes they willfully put my ass and their's too in a sling. TheKentuckian Nov 2024 #46
Of course Kamala and Joe were both lied about. markodochartaigh Nov 2024 #29
I dearly hope that time is coming, my friend. calimary Nov 2024 #48
Well said and when you hit the transgender moniss Nov 2024 #33
Yup, and that is why the next and the next and the next BigmanPigman Nov 2024 #36
When will another woman take a chance and run, when this is America Beringia Nov 2024 #67
Actually it's about being the change candidate under periods of perceived economic uncertainty andym Nov 2024 #37
Trump is responsible for the economic uncertainty and SammyWinstonJack Nov 2024 #60
Ironic and tragic, but Trump is a troublemaker and will cause more pain. NT. andym Nov 2024 #71
Except that 45% women and 45% of Latinos voted for Trump Pototan Nov 2024 #39
Post removed Post removed Nov 2024 #43
Hispanic men absolutely will.vote.for a woman Ontheboundry Nov 2024 #53
The reasons you posit in your OP surely have validity True Dough Nov 2024 #55
This is a breakdown Jen Taub on Mary Trump Media shared yesterday: madaboutharry Nov 2024 #57
I know. LisaL Nov 2024 #59
A seriously good OP malaise Nov 2024 #58
I am late getting to this thread serbbral Nov 2024 #75
And propaganda. Basso8vb Nov 2024 #76
A woman lost twice to Trump. A Black woman lost once. usonian Nov 2024 #79

Bluetus

(781 posts)
2. "Biden's age" was the proxy for ...
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 12:50 AM
Nov 2024

"that black lady who takes over if he dies"

I don't know how many people thought through that on a conscious level, but I think you speak the truth here. Racism and sexism are so ingrained in what America has always been that it really doesn't take much of a dog whistle to wake up those demons.

On the sexism side, the list of countries which have had a female head-of-state is very long now. Yet here we are in America in 2024 with a super-qualified woman against a complete nitwit, and there are 15 million people who just can't go there. Sickening.

thesquanderer

(12,530 posts)
38. yet "that black lady who takes over if he dies" was also true in 2020 when he beat Trump.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 02:47 AM
Nov 2024

And even then, at Biden's age, it was not exactly a remote possibility.

Bluetus

(781 posts)
74. That is a good point, for those who have some knowledge of the democratic process
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 10:19 PM
Nov 2024

And that is maybe 20% of the population, and most of them voted for Harris.

The MAGA people are utterly incapable of reasoning through the "one heartbeat away from President Harris" thing.

But more importantly, people knew how terrible Trump was/is because they were living it in 2020. Four years of nonstop gaslighting later, it turns out that 2017-2020 were American's best years ever.

CrispyQ

(39,276 posts)
77. The pandemic was a huge factor in 2020, I think.
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 01:12 PM
Nov 2024

Even though apparently a ton of people have forgotten how badly Trump handled it, back then it was fresh. We were living it. His comments about how covid would just magically disappear were months old, not years.

dpibel

(3,544 posts)
83. I don't recall the nonstop coverage of Biden's age in 2020
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 05:16 PM
Nov 2024

The media, in aid of Trump, made Biden's age the big story for months this time around.

In 2020, it was harder to pull off, what with Joe riding bikes and kicking Trump's ass in debates and such.

harumph

(2,585 posts)
3. The winner. People don't have to tell the truth when asked - and they don't.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 12:54 AM
Nov 2024

Thank you. This is the best most succinct explanation I've read today. Posters saying that Kamala should have done this
or should have said that - are missing the point. There's NOTHING she could have done. And if she had beclowned herself
to appeal to the mouth breathers, it would've been even worse turnout. Too many young American males are grievance driven little shits who don't even see women as real persons.

Jarqui

(10,596 posts)
30. Considering her position on July 21st, I think they ran a great campaign
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 02:06 AM
Nov 2024

They seemed to make very few errors.
They got through the transition from Biden with nearly everybody on board - which was remarkable - a credit to them and to those who didn't make a fuss when they could have.
They seemed to have the better ground game.
They did a phenomenal job raising money.
She won the debate.
They got clobbered on social media but that wasn't a fair fight - people like Musk were pulling strings there.

No question misogyny & racism played a significant role.

I'm still suspicious of Trump shenanigans so I'm not sure of all my conclusions yet.

Kaleva

(39,039 posts)
35. I assumed women would carry Kamala to victory
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 02:17 AM
Nov 2024

While she did get a majority of the minority female vote, she apparently lost the white female vote

cannabis_flower

(3,868 posts)
42. As a white female voter
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 03:28 AM
Nov 2024

I voted for Harris. I’m embarrassed at all the white women who would vote for a felon, traitor and liar.

Yavin4

(37,143 posts)
69. Don't fall for the "price of eggs" bullshit. People are doing very well in this economy
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 10:27 AM
Nov 2024

Yes, some people are struggling, but Trump's voters are not. If they were, then explain this:

1. Ford F-150 tops US sales chart again

In 2023, Ford sold 750,789 F-Series models, up 14.8 per cent from the year before. The Blue Oval unfortunately didn’t break out figures for the all-electric Lightning or the hybrid variants, but claims they were the best-selling electric and hybrid pickups last year.

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/ford-f-150-tops-us-sales-chart-again-but-theres-an-asterisk

2. Airlines for America Anticipates Record Air Travel This Spring - MARCH 19, 2024
Airlines for America (A4A), the industry trade organization for the leading U.S. airlines, projects that U.S. airlines will carry a record-setting 167.1 million travelers (~2.7 million each day) during the 2024 spring travel period, March 1 – April 30. This new record will mark a 6 percent increase over the 2023 spring travel season when 157.4 million travelers (~2.6 million each day) took to the skies.

https://www.airlines.org/news-update/airlines-for-america-anticipates-record-air-travel-this-spring/


3. Cruises - United States

It is projected that the revenue in the Cruises market will reach US$24.70bn in 2024 in the United States.
Further, it is expected that the revenue will exhibit an annual growth rate (CAGR 2024-2029) of 5.57%, ultimately resulting in a market volume of US$32.39bn by 2029.


https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/travel-tourism/cruises/united-states#:~:text=Cruises%20%2D%20United%20States-,United%20States,to%20be%20US$1.45k.


4. DISNEYLAND’S FINANCIAL MAGIC: A CLOSER LOOK AT THE PARK’S ANNUAL EARNINGS - Aug 9, 2024

In 2023, Disney Parks overall earned a whopping $8.95 billion in operating income. Using Disneyland’s substantial 22.37% attendance share from 2022 as a benchmark, it’s estimated that the beloved park contributed around $2 billion in net profit in 2023. That’s enough pixie dust to make any accountant’s eyes sparkle!

Breaking it down, that’s approximately $5.48 million every single day, or about $228,310 an hour. Even when you narrow it down to seconds, the park manages to pull in about $63.42. Truly staggering numbers for a place that began as a visionary dream sketched on a napkin by Walt Disney!


5. FanDuel increases U.S. market projection by 70% to $39 billion 10.18.2024
The one with the broadest impact came from FanDuel CEO Amy Howe, who said the company had revised its forecast of the U.S. sportsbook TAM (total addressable market) at maturity in 2030 from the $23 billion that it set two years ago to $39 billion, an increase of 70%. That projection assumes that 80% of U.S. adults are able to bet online legally by then, a reasonable assumption that is the same as it was two years ago.

CrispyQ

(39,276 posts)
78. Apparently stories about repub women being angry about Roe were overblown. ???
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 01:15 PM
Nov 2024

There were a ton of those very late in the campaign.

Elessar Zappa

(16,308 posts)
4. I think it was a combo of factors.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 12:56 AM
Nov 2024

One is certainly racism and misogyny. But I do believe that the cost of groceries and rent hurt us tremendously. Not sure what we could’ve done to combat that.

valleyrogue

(1,874 posts)
12. It really wasn't. It was all about the GOP getting the MRA and incel vote via social media.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:27 AM
Nov 2024

Young women are seeing right through the economy b.s.:

https://jessica.substack.com/p/the-fury-gap

kelly1mm

(5,651 posts)
28. Gen Z moved towards President Trump, moreso men but women as well as compared to those that supported
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 02:03 AM
Nov 2024

President Biden. The exit polls show all demographics shifter R except 65+ olds and white men with a college degree.

Skittles

(162,537 posts)
14. once again
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:38 AM
Nov 2024

please feel free to tell us what repukes would do to help the average person, WHEN DO THEY EVER HELP *WE THE PEOPLE*? Notice how they screamed about it but never had any remedies? REPUKES WORK FOR CORPORATE WHORES.

Pisces

(5,904 posts)
32. We could have acknowledged it more instead of saying it was better and just in peoples minds that things were bad,
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 02:11 AM
Nov 2024

We kept arguing with people that they didn’t know what they were talking about, that the economy was good. It was good for some in the stock market not the regular people.

Walleye

(38,838 posts)
56. So do they think grocery prices are going to come down now. Trump cares about your grocery prices?
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 07:05 AM
Nov 2024

kelly1mm

(5,651 posts)
5. Lets assume this is true for arguments sale. Lets ALSO look at Gen Z voters moving towards
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:05 AM
Nov 2024

President Trump (along with millennials, Gen X, shoot basically EVERYONE EXCEPT BOOMERS)

So what is the path forward? If 'sexism, racism, and bigotry' are ascendant in US politics where should the Democratic Party look for votes?

DemocratSinceBirth

(100,708 posts)
6. Joe Biden had a 39% to 41% approval ratining in exit polls.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:08 AM
Nov 2024

He deserved better but that's irrelevant to this exercise. No incumbent political party candidate has ever won re-election with those numbers, not Adlai Stevenson, not Hubert Humphrey, not Jimmy Carter, not George Herbert Walker Bush, and not John McCain. If voters were happy with the direction of the country and the economy she could have won if she was from Mars.

DemocratSinceBirth

(100,708 posts)
11. His appoval ratings in November of 2004 hovered around fifty percent.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:27 AM
Nov 2024

I can supply a citation if you want.

Skittles

(162,537 posts)
18. yup
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:44 AM
Nov 2024

apparently, allowing the biggest terrorist attack in our nation's history really boosted his ratings

Skittles

(162,537 posts)
25. that made me sick
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:54 AM
Nov 2024

I knew right then he'd use it to start bullshit wars

people are so freaking gullible

CrispyQ

(39,276 posts)
80. people are so freaking gullible ---This is our main problem.
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 01:21 PM
Nov 2024

I was reading a conversation between some young women on FB & two of them admitted they voted for Trump cuz according to them, Roe v Wade gave abortion back to the states, & since that's what Trump did, they voted for him. Oh, the regret when they were set straight.

I still have my DU tee-shirt from back when DU had a slogan contest. One of the winners was this:

Freedom isn't free; you have to pay attention.

leftstreet

(36,611 posts)
7. Nonsense. Knuckledraggers would have run to vote Sarah Palin
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:08 AM
Nov 2024

It's about which party is running the woman

DemocratSinceBirth

(100,708 posts)
8. People forget Barack Obama won twice.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:16 AM
Nov 2024

There is always a majority of voters who would vote for a Martian if they felt the Martian would make their lives materially better

Skittles

(162,537 posts)
19. he may have been the first black person to be president
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:46 AM
Nov 2024

but it has been ALL men - he did not have to deal with misogyny

DemocratSinceBirth

(100,708 posts)
21. Skittles
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:50 AM
Nov 2024

If a majority of voters were happy with the way the last four years went you or I could have beat Trump if we had a (D) after our name.

DemocratSinceBirth

(100,708 posts)
31. No incumbent president
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 02:09 AM
Nov 2024

No incumbent president with an approval rating of over 50% has ever failed to be re-elected and Richard Nixon and Al Gore are the only candidates whose predecessors had approval ratings above 50% and lost. Re-election campaigns are referendums on the party in power. If they like the way things are going they generally give them another term. If they don't like the way things are going they don't. One can hold two contradictory thoughts in their mind and believe both to be true; one can be a bigot and still vote for the target of their bigotry if they think that person can make their life better.

Skittles

(162,537 posts)
41. what you are forgetting
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 03:22 AM
Nov 2024

is TRUMP was literally talking about Arnold Palmer's junk and mimicking oral sex in front of an audience.....he is ALREADY on the lists of the worst presidents of all time - why wasn't HE held accountable?

answer: BECAUSE HE IS A WHITE MALE REPUKE

calimary

(85,426 posts)
45. WOW, DSB! This:
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 03:43 AM
Nov 2024

“One can hold two contradictory thoughts in their mind and believe both to be true; one can be a bigot and still vote for the target of their bigotry if they think that person can make their life better.”

Boy, I hope as many of our fellow DUers as possible see this post of yours, AND THIS quote from it, in particular. A MOST spot-on post, even though also infuriating and depressing.

Skittles

(162,537 posts)
49. what have repukes EVER done to make their lives better?
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 03:55 AM
Nov 2024

I live in a red area, I ASK THESE PEOPLE and they cannot name one thing - not one that directly affects them.

Orrex

(64,882 posts)
61. How many of those incumbents were black women?
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 08:07 AM
Nov 2024

His many were campaigning against a fascist with a trillion-dollar propaganda machine at his disposal and the assistance of a Russian dictator?

Dubiously citing precedent in an unprecedented disaster is not persuasive.

Jack Valentino

(1,657 posts)
70. "Who got me a cheaper bag of Doritos?" Yeah, it was that Adolf guy...
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 12:55 PM
Nov 2024

That is the limit of what too many voters know about economics, unfortunately.
So they voted for the nazi whose proposed politics will likely
make their Doritos even MORE expensive...

So they'll either have to complain about it, go without
or switch to a generic store brand, which, while often quite tasty,
are just not Doritos

tulipsandroses

(6,954 posts)
40. Obama was the first president to utilize the internet in a campaign
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 02:56 AM
Nov 2024

It wasn’t quite the swamp of hate, lies and propaganda it is today. I’m not so sure Obama would win in today’s internet world.

CrispyQ

(39,276 posts)
81. Remember in a speech Obama gave, sometime after Trump was prez,
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 01:32 PM
Nov 2024

he said, paraphrasing, I didn't create Trump. Your hatred of me created Trump.

Alex Wagner made an observation a few weeks before the election regarding the enthusiasm the Harris campaign had. She said we want to believe that Obama wasn't an aberration, that we could break the glass ceiling & continue the progress our country has made.

In a few months we're going to peacefully hand our 250 year experiment over to people who want to trash it.

Blue_Roses

(13,695 posts)
10. Denial is one of the 5 stages of grief
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:26 AM
Nov 2024

And we are grieving now. Alot of us just have to work through it at our own pace. Time will eventually let us know the full outcome.

calimary

(85,426 posts)
47. Good reminder, Blue_Roses.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 03:47 AM
Nov 2024

We need time to grieve - AND then get over it. And this place needs as many of us ready to fight for our America as we can possibly have.

Blue_Roses

(13,695 posts)
50. We sure do. But, right now
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 04:41 AM
Nov 2024

it's hard to even lift our heads. I was in the grocery store tonight and when I saw someone who looked like they could be a Trump supporter, I found myself getting angry and depressed at the same time. I didn't do that before the election.

It's gonna take us some time.

calimary

(85,426 posts)
52. I believe you, my friend.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 04:52 AM
Nov 2024

I’m trying to anticipate being able to get over it by next Monday if not maybe some time over this weekend. Not sure I’d be ready to bet on that by then, however.

Blue_Roses

(13,695 posts)
51. That's pretty harsh
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 04:45 AM
Nov 2024

Kamala Harris was a good candidate and she ran an amazing campaign. What we didn't realize was how DUM the Trump supporters are.Thats where we made our first mistake.

Ontheboundry

(306 posts)
65. She lost ground in every demographic save one
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 09:28 AM
Nov 2024

Baby boomers oddly enough, the group we on DU blast the most.were the only she did better than Biden

This is a messaging issue

With Hispanic women

Hillary+44
Biden +33
Harris +22

The Hispanic men was a bloodbath

So it's slipping regardless of gender....

We lost a full 5 points with blacks (all from the men)

Pisces

(5,904 posts)
73. A 2 month campaign did her in. We needed a primary from the very beginning. Our blind spot was how
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 02:29 PM
Nov 2024

Much we respected Joe Biden, and the people around him should have given better advise.

Ontheboundry

(306 posts)
54. One thing trump.does well
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 05:54 AM
Nov 2024

Is push emotional buttons and not give a single F what anyone thinks about him feelings be damned is his style,.and oddly that works with enough people

The man is a pos,.but he has that talent for sure of touching emotional.cords.

Orrex

(64,882 posts)
20. The best time to attack someone who's traumatized is while the trauma is still ongoing
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:47 AM
Nov 2024

That way you can cause the most pain and harm.

It's been less than 48 hours since Harris conceded. Could you maybe hold off on scolding people until they've had time to fucking process this wholly unprecedented and world-shattering disaster?

Let me guess: when someone's standing on the lawn, turned away from their house in flames so that they don't have to see it burn, you push them back inside and chastise them for living in denial, right?

JFC why is there always this rush to make people feel stupid for feeling human?

appmanga

(1,055 posts)
62. If YOU feel attacked, you're missing the point...
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 09:16 AM
Nov 2024

...unless you feel some responsibility for this result.

Things are not the same everywhere in this country, but I've done quite a bit of traveling in SC, GA, and AL. In all three states gasoline has been below $3/gallon for nearly a year. Restaurants are crowded on weekends. People are attending sporting events with their precious discretionary dollars, and there aren't walking around in rags. These aren't the working poor who are just scraping by. These are the people who are dissatisfied because they simply think their lives should be without struggles.

The continued "conventional wisdom" will only cause Democrats to look toward the wrong answers and, therefore, get the undesired outcomes.

Kamala Harris run was undone by a culture war campaign that could have been a Karl Rove fever dream. Democrats ignore that at their peril. Not providing a coherent response to these tactics is to fail. It happened years ago with same-sex marriage, and it happened here with transgenderism. And to ignore the racism and sexism is to be willfully blind and to ignore the level of this toxicity in our country.

Orrex

(64,882 posts)
63. The attacks are upon people feeling shattered by the election
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 09:23 AM
Nov 2024

It started Tuesday night and has continued.

Orrex

(64,882 posts)
68. See, even that framing is adversarial
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 10:19 AM
Nov 2024

Saying someone “can’t take the heat” is calling someone out for reacting like a normal human being. Instead, it should be “ if you can’t resist the urge to pile on, then maybe you should take a step back for a few days.”

I can “take the heat,” thanks, but I can also see the pettiness and pointless condescension in those who never miss a chance to kick someone when they’re down.

We’ ll see more of this Dems-attacking-Dems foolishness as Inauguration Day approaches, too. Maybe the scolds should take this time to figure out why they need to put people down so predictably.

nilram

(3,113 posts)
23. What do you mean by "a stunning fashion"
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:53 AM
Nov 2024

The only way it was stunning is that it was unexpected. It's not clear that she's lost the popular vote. Any statements to the contrary don't take into account the as-yet uncounted ballots in California and elsewhere.

Actually the other way that it's stunning is that, in five swing states, voters elected Democratic Senators but not a Democratic president. Whatever their demographics or attitudes, it's pretty unusual for people to split their ticket.

People have been voting against their own interest for a long time (cf Ronald Reagan), that's not stunning at all.

summer_in_TX

(3,504 posts)
27. How many of us on DU are still working full time while trying to feed and clothe our kids?
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 01:58 AM
Nov 2024

I know for my son and his family of six kids (three of them teenagers) inflation hit them really hard. But my husband and I have enough cushion that it hasn't been that big a deal. No kids at home, not a lot of expenses that they're dealing with.

A friend who'd hoped Kamala would win went to her usual cafe for lunch today. The waitress who makes her so welcome and a hardworking kitchen worker on the autism spectrum who she finds part of what makes that cafe a home away from home for her were so thankful with the outcome, that there would be a change. Of course they aren't the type to be well-informed so they had hope when they voted. We know they are in for a rude awakening. But I can understand their life situations that led them to vote the way they did.

These are not the culture warriors, they're the little guys just trying to get by.

 

TheKentuckian

(26,314 posts)
46. No, they are reckless, stupid, assholes they willfully put my ass and their's too in a sling.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 03:46 AM
Nov 2024

Motherfuck them and the excuses for their literal insane depravity.

markodochartaigh

(2,468 posts)
29. Of course Kamala and Joe were both lied about.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 02:05 AM
Nov 2024

And the lies came from sources which are incredibly sophisticated in propagandizing. Never before has it been possible to produce propaganda so effective and so targeted.

But I think that the real problem is lack of empathy. Whether Kamala was too Black, too Asian, too female, too Democratic, too whatever, the problem is that, because of a lack of empathy, the voters found her too xxxx, and the propaganda was there to capitalize on the inherent prejudices.

I think that the core of the Republican everyone for themselves, toxically masculine, power/status adoring, philosophy is a lack of empathy.

Right now much of the population in the US is not ready to address their lack of empathy. I think that it will take a severe shock to tilt the balance to the point where enough people are ready to address their lack of empathy. I think that that time is coming.

calimary

(85,426 posts)
48. I dearly hope that time is coming, my friend.
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 03:54 AM
Nov 2024

But I’ve been there before. And hope hasn’t served me nearly as much or as often as I’d wanted (or expected).

Hey, I‘ve got a lot to work through, too. I already know how rotten it feels cuz I’m already there, myself.

moniss

(6,769 posts)
33. Well said and when you hit the transgender
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 02:12 AM
Nov 2024

issue and the inner Archie Bunker it really does a good job of crystallizing how people we think are one way based on how they seem on the surface but inside they are looking for that "something" to latch onto and allow them to comfort that bigotry internally while still keeping a fairly neutral exterior face to the world. Excellent analysis.

One of the problems in overcoming bigoted people is that they don't see themselves as being the problem. They see it as being the ones who are pointing out the bigotry along with the "other" that they are directed at in their minds at any particular moment.

BigmanPigman

(52,687 posts)
36. Yup, and that is why the next and the next and the next
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 02:18 AM
Nov 2024

elections will have the same outcome. Thinking otherwise is foolish. People need to wake up and realize this is exactly who America is. Most of the world is as well. People are greedy, hate filled, selfish liars and men have controlled religion and politics and all aspects of everyone's life since humans stood upright. It will never change. This is why people suck. Men destroy life and they love it, love it, love it. It is the nature of the beast.

Animals do NOT do this, only people do. Carl Sagan is right. Animals harm to save their lives, humans do it to benefit their agenda.

Nothing changes. Don't expect it to.

andym

(5,907 posts)
37. Actually it's about being the change candidate under periods of perceived economic uncertainty
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 02:26 AM
Nov 2024

Last edited Fri Nov 8, 2024, 03:09 AM - Edit history (1)

Trump is synonymous with extreme change and chaos-- that's why no Republican could beat him and why during a period of economic uncertainty and anxiety according to poll after poll this Spring, Summer and Fall, Trump was doing well-- surprisingly it's his very volatility and insanity that won him votes from a majority of voters. Trump out polled Joe throughout the year, and only fell behind Kamala in the polls for about 6-8 weeks when she was the new minted candidate and potentially a "change" candidate herself.

Trump and Vance made a big deal of painting Kamala as the establishment, "same old, same old" candidate-- trying to pin Biden's low favorabiity (40%) on her and it worked. That's why they kept asking how come she didn't already fix the economy-- very unfair because a VP is not the President. The only way she might have overcome being painted as a continuation of Joe would have been to come out with a very ambitious and new economic plan that sounded different from just being an evolution of Joe's plan and shout out that she is her own person with her own vision.

Still she out polled Joe against Trump this year and did better than Joe, a white man, would have based on polling data which belies the argument put forth in the OP-- that doesn't mean there isn't misogyny and racism that hurt her chances, just that there were other factors that loomed larger.

SammyWinstonJack

(44,245 posts)
60. Trump is responsible for the economic uncertainty and
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 07:45 AM
Nov 2024

the morons just voted for more of the same. Bloody brilliant.

Pototan

(2,434 posts)
39. Except that 45% women and 45% of Latinos voted for Trump
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 02:54 AM
Nov 2024

We can win even when sexists, bigots and racists vote for Trump. We can't win when nearly half of their victims vote for him, too.

Response to appmanga (Original post)

Ontheboundry

(306 posts)
53. Hispanic men absolutely will.vote.for a woman
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 05:49 AM
Nov 2024

In 2016 Hillary got 71% of Hispanic men. Biden got less than her. Sexism still in play as the reason for Hispanic men?

How about we ask ourselves why hispanics as a whole are drifting away from us more.and more every cycle ?

This is our glaring fault as a party. We are unable to look at ourselves in the mirror and realize part of the blame could very well be our own



True Dough

(22,252 posts)
55. The reasons you posit in your OP surely have validity
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 06:06 AM
Nov 2024

Racism and misogyny remain ubiquitous today, unfortunately.

But I think you're mistaken in downplaying inflation. That occurred globally, not just in America, but leaders around the world have paid a price for it in recent elections. Paying 30% more for basic goods within a few years has a real effect in many, many households.

And, whether you're a fan or not, David Axelrod makes some good points here:

David Axelrod
@davidaxelrod
The most unseemly thing about elections you lose is that everyone has theories about what you could/should have done.
The Harris campaign wasn't perfect but it, and she, did a lot of things well--debate; convention and more.
Reality is, they were facing tremendous headwinds--28% right track number; two-thirds negative on economy;
@POTUS approval, just 40 percent.
No incumbent party has ever overcome such numbers.
And give Trump's team credit. They set out from the start to define her as the status quo by tying her to an unpopular president on economy/border issues, and they succeeded.

madaboutharry

(41,761 posts)
57. This is a breakdown Jen Taub on Mary Trump Media shared yesterday:
Fri Nov 8, 2024, 07:15 AM
Nov 2024

Last edited Fri Nov 8, 2024, 07:58 AM - Edit history (1)

Jen Taub, a law professor, streams a great morning show on YouTube every day. She had this breakdown of exit polling yesterday:

Black women: 92%
Jewish women: 88%
Latin women: 61%
White women: 47%

These were the statistics on men:

Black men: 78%
Jewish men: 71%
Latin men: 44%
White men: 39%

Note: I added the statistics for Latin men and women based on data from the NYT which weren’t in Taub’s chart.

Maybe I shouldn’t be shocked by this, but I am. I actually do not know how to process these numbers. They are deeply upsetting.

I don’t know how anyone can deny that sexism and racism played a significant role in this election. The numbers speak for themselves.

serbbral

(292 posts)
75. I am late getting to this thread
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 01:02 PM
Nov 2024

But I totally agree! I might have to stop watching these cable news shows, because they all want to discuss inflation, the economy, and come up with all kinds of reasons why she lost. I'm not saying such problems don't exist, but I DO think the main reason was because of miscogony and racism. It seems they all want to avoid that.

usonian

(16,502 posts)
79. A woman lost twice to Trump. A Black woman lost once.
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 01:15 PM
Nov 2024

Much of America is brainwashed into racism and misogyny.
They are so prevalent that we don't see them,
like fish don't know about water.

Racism and misogyny are TAUGHT. And reinforced 24 by 7 by 365 by the propaganda mill.
And even in religion.
Most don't even count women as first-class citizens.

And all for a big lie (well, lots of big lies)

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