A few thoughts on the collapse of civilized society.

[ananda]

During my life, I have read some very interesting articles
on what causes humans to go into mental decline and
their society to move into chaos and collapse.

One of these articles posited that there was a direct
ratio between the size of an area and the density of
the population, and once the density reached a certain
percentage the society would go into chaos and human
mentality would decline.

Others have to do with the way we think of our world
and the beings and things that populate it. There is a
holistic view and a mechanistic view. Apparently,
humans started out thinking and living holistically.
But as time went on factors came into play that changed
that thinking.

Descartes, for example, became so enamored with his
hydraulic statues that he decided to become a mechanist
and convince others to do the same. All across Europe
there was vigorous debate between Descartes and those
inclined towards the mechanistic view and those who
were not.

This lasted awhile until mchanism became the prevailing
view, particularly with the advent of the Industrial Revolution.
This meant that humans could be considered parts of a whole,
like numbers in an assembly line. Education followed suit,
with students going to schools where they were also treated
as numbers or parts of a whole.

Once this happened, humanity and the planet were doomed.
With the separation of one and the other, it became possible
to exploit, oppress, and divide others; to treat them badly
and use divide and conquer methods for social and corporate
control. And that has certainly happened.

Then quantum physics came along and professors like David
Bohm started arguing that the entire universe is basically
holistic, and that the human brain is a holographic organ
designed to project quantum reality to our senses.

Therefore, to treat the world and the beings in it as though
they are parts of a whole and other from us is operating on
a basic fallacy, and the result is chaos and mental decline.

And these premises certainly look accurate to me today,
just as they did years ago when I first read about them.

And that is where we are now.
,

[pat_k]

1. On "the radical difference of mental habit between the good character and the bad." (Schopenhauer )

People connected to our basic common humanity and compassion will always be the counterweight to those of "bad character." Compassion is a mighty force. Hold on to it.

Uncle Joe's post Human Empathy & Interconnectedness - Joseph Campbell - 1986, in which Joseph Campbell quotes Schopenhauer prompted me to go back and review bits of his writings.

The following from The Basis of Morality on the "radical difference of mental habit between the good character and the bad" really struck me.

Page 277

The preponderance of either mode of viewing life not only determines single acts; it shapes a man's whole nature and temperament. Hence the radical difference of mental habit between the good character and the bad.

The latter feels everywhere that a thick wall of partition hedges him off from all others. For him the world is an absolute non-ego, and his relation to it an essentially hostile one; consequently, the key-note of his disposition is hatred, suspicion, envy, and pleasure in seeing distress.

The good character, on the other hand, lives in an external world homogeneous with his own being; the rest of mankind is not in his eyes a non-ego; he thinks of it rather as "myself once more." He therefore stands on an essentially amicable footing with every one: he is conscious of being, in his inmost nature, akin to the whole human race, takes direct interest in their weal and woe, and confidently assumes in their case the same interest in him. This is the source of his deep inward peace, and of that happy, calm, contented manner, which goes out on those around him, and is as the "presence of a good diffused."

Whereas the bad character in time of trouble has no trust in the help of his fellow-creatures. If he invokes aid, he does so without confidence: obtained, he feels no real gratitude for it; because he can hardly discern therein anything but the effect of others' folly. For he is simply incapable of recognising his own self in some one else; and this, even after it has furnished the most incontestible signs of existence in that other person: on which fact the repulsive nature of all unthankfulness in reality depends. The moral isolation, which thus naturally and inevitably encompasses the bad man, is often the cause of his becoming the victim of despair.

The good man, on the contrary, will appeal to his neighbours for assistance, with an assurance equal to the consciousness he has of being ready himself to help them. As I have said: to the one type, humanity is a non-ego; to the other, "myself once more." The magnanimous character, who forgives his enemy, and returns good for evil, rises to the sublime, and receives the highest meed of praise; because he recognises his real self even there where it is most conspicuously disowned.

As I read the following bit, DT's "suckers and losers" echoed in my head:

"he feels no real gratitude for it; because he can hardly discern therein anything but the effect of others' folly. "

Page 214

Boundless compassion for all living beings is the surest and most certain guarantee of pure moral conduct, and needs no casuistry. Whoever is filled with it will assuredly injure no one, do harm to no one, encroach on no man's rights; he will rather have regard for every one, forgive every one, help every one as far as he can, and all his actions will bear the stamp of justice and loving-kindness.

[ananda]

2. Excellent!

Thanks

[airplaneman]

3. My thoughts on why societies collapse.

I think when government gets too far out of reality and cannot mediate the problems of society then things that would normally be corrected can no longer happen and we descend into chaos or Climate Change makes agriculture at scale no longer possible. This applies past, future and present. The idea of getting rid of NOAA so climate science data will dry up and a bunch of other ideas helping only the rich at the expense of everyone else shows our deviation from reality. When the vast majority of our society can no longer maintain a healthy lifestyle and 10 of millions face homelessness things will deteriorate rapidly.
JMHO

[ananda]

4. These are more symptoms and results of collapse.

These kinds of things are examples of what collapse
looks like. Of course, once society starts collapsing,
the signatures of that collapse can cause more
collapse.

But I think the root cause is as I presented it before.

[NickB79]

5. I figure it's the early impact of climate change and resource depletion

As the world burns and resource scarce, people turn to strongmen and dictators who claim they can give them back the good old days. People who tell them the truth that those days are gone get shouted down.

If you look around, there's been a rightward trend globally the past decade or two.

[ananda]

6. No argument there. Do you think that...

human society will descend to lord of the flies level,
reptile brain kind of stuff?

[NickB79]

7. Frankly? Yes

I've watched the science evolve on climate change since I was a freshman in high school 30 yr ago. I have no hope left at this point for a functioning, global civilization when we breach 2C of warming. We're currently on or close to the WORST-CASE paths envisioned, with atmospheric carbon loads rising faster than any time in millions of years. This year we'll be a solid 1.5C above the pre-industrial baseline, and positive feedback loops like forest fires and permafrost thawing will keep this going no matter how much renewable energy we build out. It will be a miracle if we don't breach 3C by 2100.

I figure that by the end of the century, most nations near the equator will be too hot and humid for human survivability. Wars will be fought over arable land and fresh water, waves of refugees will be streaming north, and nations will either use military force to keep them out or collapse under the humanitarian weight. At the same time, they'll be fighting against erratic weather causing multi-billion dollar natural disasters, wiping out coastal cities and crops. Global civilization will fragment into regional civilizations, only a few of which will retain a semblance of democracy, international trade will grind to a halt, and large parts of the planet will fall under the control of warlords, dictators and fundamentalists like we saw in Somalia and Afghanistan.

There's a damn good reason I never moved out of Minnesota, why I created a permaculture mini-farm on 2 acres, and why I'm looking to buy more land, this time close to the Canadian border. All that keeps me going is trying to leave my teenage daughter a piece of property that she can fall back on as an adult in 20 years time.