Oh my! RollingStone commentary; How Joe Biden Squandered His Own Legacy

[Hotler]

I did not know he dug his heels in.
(snip) In 2022, President Joe Biden stood at a crossroads. His party had just shattered midterm expectations — the strongest showing for a first-term president in decades. It was a triumphant moment that came with a choice: step aside in victory or tempt fate for four more years. A graceful exit then would have allowed an open primary, giving presidential hopefuls time to make their case to voters.

He chose wrong. After delivering a devastating debate performance, the rapidly diminishing 81-year-old president was still convinced that he, and precisely no one else, could save America. This astonishing Buchananesque approach — declare yourself the only solution while actively making the problem worse — inspired unprecedented reactions: House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi emerged from retirement to pressure a transition. Democrats increasingly broke their silence. And this presidential historian found herself writing the hardest essay of her career: I called for an ostensibly successful, unindicted president to resign in these pages.

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/political-commentary/biden-legacy-trump-election-win-1235154852/

[orangecrush]

1. I stuck by Joe

Until he stepped down.

I could not understand why prominent Democrats wanted him to step aside.

My opinion, of course, had exactly 0% influence on the outcome of events.

Had the facts been plainly laid out by whomever in the Democratic establishment is responsible for doing so, I would have hoped Joe announced he would not seek a second term, for the reasons outlined in the op.

Water over the dam.

We will all pay now.

[DENVERPOPS]

40. Me too

He was not briefed on an old, well known technique to destroy the opponent in a Debate.

Google "Gish Gallop"........if you aren't prepared for it, it will leave you speechless. Obviously it worked when Trump did it to Biden....

Shame on his prep group for not tipping him off for the possibility and how to counteract it.........

[Jit423]

49. We need to stop right now and focus on the SCOTUS and the courts. Encourage Joe to focus on judicial appts.

He should be appointing as many judges as the can right now. If any thing happens to one of the sitting GOP creeps, Joe should nominate Kamala. Two of the current GOP Justices do have serious health issues but no one speaks about it. Anything can happen between now and January 20. Otherwise, dispense with election postmortem and do all we can to help our Dems in the House and Senate have the backing to do whatever they can to thwart the worst President ever, Donald Trump.

[Jit423]

50. I feel vindicated. Elizabeth Warren is on MoJo saying just what a posted moments ago.

[Elessar Zappa]

2. Blaming Biden for the outcome is ridiculous.

He in no way “kneecapped” Harris.

[LisaL]

5. Press should take a look at itself as the morons that should be blamed

for this outcome.

[Skittles]

14. he certainly did NOT help

no INDEED

[orangecrush]

20. Not placing "blame", as I see it

Everyone makes mistakes, and Joe is a man of honor.

[Elessar Zappa]

37. The article takes a pretty negative view of him.

The author said in the article that Joe Biden will be remembered as a lower tier President despite his accomplishments.

[mr715]

56. Disagree

There is definite blame in the text. He can be honorable and entitled simultaneously.

[Takket]

26. yeah he did. she only had a 100 day campaign and "i don't know her policies" was a pretty common

complaint among voters who either went drumpf or stayed home. Also by inheriting his campaign (and being his VP) she was irrevocably tied to voter anger over inflation which is pretty much what sank her ship in the end.

If he had opened the floor to a primary process in late 2023 someone else could have emerged that wasn't saddled with that baggage.

For the record the inflation crisis was only HELPED by Biden's policies, but the American voters didn't see it that way

[In It to Win It]

32. Well, her campaign didn't start under the most optimal conditions so...

I think that’s the part we can blame him for.

[oldmanlynn]

38. The press shouldn't be blaming Biden or Democrats for anything

We gave our best shot at trying to save this democracy, and we did it the right way. The other side was constantly being vulgar and lying and spreading a message of hate. I am just shocked at the number of Americans that would vote for the man and what would drive them to be OK with some of the democracy destroying statements that Trump made just because of a little inflation? How bad was the misinformation out there and how strong did it hit the other side? How do we compete and get our message across. Waiting for 4 months every 4 years before elections not going to work.

Ahh im rambling.

[LisaL]

3. He stepped aside just like this author demanded.

That didn't help, did it? Yet they are still blaming him.

[orangecrush]

21. Not blaming him

I love Joe.

It might have been helpful if he announced much earlier is all I'm hearing.

[In It to Win It]

33. Stepped aside in the fourth quarter. He should have never ran for reelection in the first place

[mr715]

60. Clawed away, kicking and screaming

[EdmondDantes_]

4. I don't know if anyone different would have emerged from a primary

It's a really weird position given Biden got through some significant bills in a narrow Congress and did win a record number of votes (admittedly in a weird election due to covid), but he was unpopular and with inflation being such a factor, I don't know if anyone at the top of the ticket would have won.

That said, it's hard to blame Biden too much for not wanting to step aside. Power is seductive for the best of us, and he had wanted to be President for a long time. It's hard to get to the top of the mountain and not want to stay there, especially given how lauded he was for winning in 2020 and the narrative around it with him coming back after the first two primaries and the party largely coalescing around him at once.

[roscoeroscoe]

6. Just like with 2016, the whole mess is an operatic level tragedy

Merrick Garland crying and cringing in one corner of the stage, Biden sadly walking toward the wings, Jack Smith quietly packing up his desk in the back corner. Center stage, in a strangely darkened scene, bats and snakes kissing the feet and caressing the central, ghastly figure.

[orangecrush]

22. Great post.

[Johonny]

7. Damn you Joe Biden for doing a great job

That we totally didn't report and instead slandered you as an old feeble loser.

Media did it to themselves and blame everyone but themselves. Losers.

[GP6971]

13. Hi Sunshine!! Your weather looks rainy and chilly. A DU

Deluxe pizza should warm you up!! Enjoy!!

[Cha]

15. TY for the heads UP!

[GP6971]

19. Anytime!!

[Cha]

27. Teamwork.

[Emrys]

17. I make that 8 minutes between joining DU and going *POOF*

I don't know what the record is. We should start a leader board.

[orangecrush]

23. Thanks

For the delivery.

[mopinko]

45. is she back to posting in the library?

she had her own connection last i heard.
they shd post the chgo weather report in the mirt forum.

[lees1975]

8. I stuck by Joe, too.

But then, I'm on the outside looking in. What do I know?

One of the problems Democratic party leadership has is being a day late and a dollar short to the table. If the whole collection of people who panicked after the first debate had stepped up, said this is for the good of the country, and went through the whole three week panic that they did in August, we might have had a primary. Harris might very well have come out of that the winner, and maybe someone else would have. Would it have made a difference? Who knows? Two years might have been enough to counter the four year long commercial the corporate media gave to Trump.

[Blue Owl]

9. I'm not on the "blame Joe" bus

And those who are, enjoy the ride to nowhere…..

[stopdiggin]

11. the premise here (that a one term incumbent of the WH)

AFTER we might add having - "just shattered midterm expectations — the strongest showing for a first-term president in decades.", as the piece so nicely lays out for us ... Will then 'gracefully step aside' - and thus squander all the inherent power and advantage of incumbency (not only for self but for party) .. ?

Seems like a major disconnect - if not something bordering on fabulism. Who does this?

The only conceivable reason for an incumbent to step aside under those conditions - is if it became clear in his own judgement that he was not capable of the job. And, as seems more than evident - that was not the case (or at least the judgement) with Joe Biden.

The 'crossroads' presented as 2022 - was really nothing of the sort. Removing of course - the rather large power of hindsight. (and revisionism)

[standingtall]

12. Trying to have it both ways

Demanding Biden step aside give you the ball and let you run with it. Biden did just that and they fumbled the ball and now they want to skirt in responsibility and blame it all on Biden. Reality is Democrats and big Democratic donors sacked their incumbent President. Even if Biden had stepped aside a few months or a few years earlier would still been very hard for any Democratic nominee to distance themselves from the Biden administration. If we had a disciplined party willing to rally around their President instead of getting the knives out we would've been in better shape.

[mr715]

16. Hate to admit it

I'm inclined to agree with this very ungenerous yet complex assessment.

I think he should have stuck to his promise/suggestion of only serving 1 term.

MR

[Blasphemer]

18. They are grasping....

I’m chalking it up to grief. It was not even a close election. People were pissed at Biden and the entire party because of inflation. No Democrat was going to win in 2024. That’s as clear to me now as the fact that no Republican could have won in 2008 (and, yes, Clinton would have won, too).

[StarryNite]

24. I'm getting really tired of the Biden bashing.

Our country is on the brink of destruction because of Dump and they’re spending their time bashing Biden? Really?

[Blue_Tires]

25. Folks need to leave Biden out of this

All people had to do was get their asses to the polls and everyone would be calling him a shrewd genius... 😒

[Zeitghost]

28. Are there people still trying to spin 2022

As a victory?

A few weeks after Roe is gutted and the Republicans take back the house with a larger margin of victory than we just experienced last week and people are trying to claim it's a W?

2022 was a defeat and the first clear sign that Biden needed to step aside and allow a primary.

[EnergizedLib]

43. We added a Senate seat, won governorships, narrowly lost the House

Republicans acted like they were getting 2010 again, didn’t materialize.

[mr715]

62. We lost the House. nt

[tman]

29. I strongly agree with the piece

I can say that I think Biden was a good president while also saying that his decision to run for a second term was a massive failure of leadership that will scar his legacy.

His debate performance was unforgivable given what he knew was at stake and the very loud questions around his age that were plaguing him for years leading up to that moment. His post-debate 'clean up' interview was almost as bad as the debate itself.

By this point, everything was already lost and too late for a proper primary process.

It was a selfish and foolish choice to claim that only he (polling indicated otherwise) would be able beat trump, and not any other of the young talented Democratic leaders, as justification for running again in the first place.

VP Harris had an impossible job but probably saved us from a 400 EC wipeout, as it turns out internal Biden polling had indicated all along.

[RJ_MacReady]

48. rumors are

Internal polling showed him losing blue states like NJ NM MN and possibly NY.

[Blasphemer]

54. That alone tells us that no Dem could have won... nt

[RJ_MacReady]

55. yeah possibly

However this is a larger problem that must be immediately addressed. Losing NY NJ NM MN Illinois would be catastrophic. Such losses could possibly allow them to control 38 states. Then it's over.

[Elessar Zappa]

59. I don't think this election

means that those states are trending red. It just means this was a bad cycle this time.

[JI7]

30. We need to stop focusing on specific candidates and figures

the real problem and where we can have some control or influence is in getting out the accomplishments of members of our party.

Biden got a lot done and we should have run ads or anything else which informed people in a simple way. So even with the bad debate people could see his administration had done things and this would have Kamala .

[dlk]

31. Spare us, please...

[CentralMass]

34. Joe is the only candidate who has beaten the Orange Anus.

I think it was a mistake to force him out.

[Elessar Zappa]

41. His internal polls were terrible.

Before he stepped aside, their internal polls showed us losing states like Nevada and New Mexico by double digits and tight races in normally blue areas like New Jersey.

[mr715]

57. My lying eyes

Everything could've been different had he not done the 1 thing he could not do, which was look weak, addled, and old during a national debate.

Maybe we shouldn't have forced him out - but he wasn't going to win. He shouldn't have run.

Like, if these people retire, they still get to go to all the same parties and stuff... Now President Biden will be a footnote to Trump.


MR

[CentralMass]

58. We will never know.

[Skittles]

63. HE WASN'T THE ONLY ONE WHO COULD HAVE BEATEN TRUMP

THAT was the mistake.

[Ndp5]

35. All the party discipline in the world...

… would not have won over swing voters. I get the “stiff upper lip” stuff, it’s what a family member of mine believes and she was devastated when Biden finally bowed out. But after that debate performance, there was just no way. I knew lifelong Dems who said they wouldn’t vote for him then.

Blanket statements hating on the media are not helpful. Trump would love nothing more than for everyone to turn on the press. What’s your specific gripe? Too much free airtime for Trump? (Fair to say of cable.) Sanewashing Trump? (Depends on the outlet.) Cowardly billionaire owners meddling? (Yes.) But the media is not a monolith.

Party insiders actually tried to keep the media from asking tough questions about Biden’s condition. Collaborating in the fiction that Biden was better than ever did no one any favors in the end. You can argue that Harris still would have lost, but you can’t seriously claim Biden gave her enough time.

[BeyondGeography]

36. The original decision to run for reelection was a terrible mistake

Poll after poll of Democratic voters showed the vast majority thought he was too old to pursue another term. His candidacy ultimately proved to be a total waste of very valuable time. Trump and his team were on their third tour in eight years of the battleground states and we ended up with a candidate who had ten weeks to get it right. There was no time to learn or adjust. No time for any necessary tweaks to register with specific segments of voters. It’s amazing Harris did as well as she did IMO.

[irisblue]

39. Can someone post the nonpaywalled version please?

[Hotler]

81. I just now clicked on it. No paywall. No paywall when I posted it. try again please. nt

[EnergizedLib]

42. I blame the media, I blame the courts, I blame Republicans, MAGAts and law enforcement

Not President Biden.

If you were president and your party had a great midterms showing, you’d naturally like your chances, at re-election too, wouldn’t you?

[brush]

44. What happened? This OP shffts suddenly from '22 and Biden with the choise of...

declaring a roaring success of great and consequential legislation passed into laws that were helping the country...then the OP shifts to '24 and his devastating performance in the debate with trump and digging his feet in to continue on...

He chose wrong. After delivering a devastating debate performance, the rapidly diminishing 81-year-old president was still convinced that he, and precisely no one else, could save America. This astonishing Buchananesque approach...

What happened? —

[Johnny2X2X]

46. He should have known

They spent years talking about his age, but I think he was up for the job until he wasn't all the sudden and he knew he had to step down.

But if he doesn't slip I still don't think he wins, the media was all in for Trump and nothing was stopping him.

[Bettie]

47. Notice, mental status and age

are no longer even an issue. The media is acting like the orange anus is some kind of savior with Russian assets in sensitive positions and nutjobs coming into the rest of them.

[Johnny2X2X]

52. Haberman and Turr

When it came out that they were effectively part of the Trump campaign and it wasn't even a big story I knew we could be in big trouble. That should have been the biggest media scandal ever, that two journalists weren't independent of the campaigns they were covering is absolutely crazy, that the media didn't even cover it is catastrophic.

Trump spent the last 4 years cultivating control of the media. I believe Turr and Haberman are just the tip of the iceberg and that he has hundreds of key people on his payroll. And not just journalists, but station directors, content creators, and executives. They at a minimum sane washed everything about him, I even noticed NPR tilting to the Right in recent years.

We no longer have a free and fair media in the US, and that's going to become really apparent soon. The fight to restore our Democracy begins with uncovering the corruption in the media.

[UpInArms]

51. Sounds like a pundit

polishing her turds

[crimycarny]

53. Wrong.

How quickly the press forgets. There were NON-STOP articles on Biden’s age from the beginning of his Presidency, every Biden gaffe, and almost zero coverage of Biden’s wins throughout his entire Presidency. How many articles did we see about Trump’s age when Biden dropped out? Close to zero.

Hindsight being 20/20 I do wish Biden had chosen not to run again, BUT, that doesn’t guarantee that there was any miracle candidate who could have won. The Trump supporters were frothing at the mouth with the idea of “revenge”, they were so mad about 2020 it blinded them to all else.

Lastly, after Joe’s bad debate Joe Biden knew that if he stepped down he had to do it from a position of strength and not while he was down. He knew if he didn’t fight his way back up his current Presidency would be at risk AND the press coverage would be nothing but stories of Joe’s fall (a new candidate would have gotten no press, or negative press painting them as having pushed Joe out). Remember too that Joe was making a hostage deal. If he had stepped down that deal would have fallen through. I don’t think it coincidence that Joe Biden made his announcement only after the hostage deal was finalized.

Thank you Joe.

[mr715]

61. He outperforms at the State of the Union

And then completely crapped the stage during the debate. I swear I do not understand how people can maintain party loyalty after seeing what a massive, huge, awful disgrace that was.

If he didn't understand the importance of the moment was, it speaks to ignorance. If he thought he alone could fix it, that speaks to arrogance.

Joe Biden could've gone down as the best President since LBJ. Nope. Erased with a pen and a phone call.



MR

[crimycarny]

67. So a miracle candidate would have won?

Interesting your crystal ball, can I have it?

The media crapped all over Joe Biden his entire Presidency. And none of us knows whether Joe Biden stepping down in 2022 would have meant whoever stepped into his place would have won.

I for one do not blame Joe Biden for Trump's win, it's a h*ll of a lot more complex than that. And Joe Biden's accomplishments aren't "erased" by Trump winning, we cannot know if Biden stepping down would have guaranteed a win in 2024.

[mr715]

68. Always happy to share my crystal ball

The media crapped on Joe Biden his entire career. He was a palatable bromide that governed way better than he communicated.

You are entirely correct that we don't know, and can't know what would have happened had he stepped aside.

He was the man for the moment in 2016. We needed a healer.

The debate happened. I blame him very much for that.

[crimycarny]

70. Far more impactful things happened than the debate

1. McConnell's failure to impeach Trump
2. The assignment of Aileen Cannon over Trump's classified document case (anyone but her would and we most like wouldn't be here)
3. The absolute failure of Merrick Garland to pursue election fraud, Jan 6th, etc.

All of those would have been far more impactful than Joe Biden's debate. Joe is so far down the line in the blame game.

[mr715]

72. "Impactful"

Biden is responsible for Merrick Garland, friendo. The buck stops with him.

We were losing before the debate. What the debate did was crystalize what was the rumbling narrative that Biden was old and tired and diminished. And I saw the debate - he was. Expectations were set so low and he managed to disappoint. He did not or would not meet the moment.

He had to do his job backwards and in high heels. He couldn't do it, and he shouldn't have felt the need to have to be the one to do it.

The debate was the moment where I had to have a moment in my own head to justify me telling everyone I knew that Biden was just like that. He made me a liar for believing he wasn't diminished.

It sounds so mean to say. I hope to be clear eyed.

[crimycarny]

74. Believe what you want

I'm not going to argue with you, it's up to you to believe whatever you want.

[mr715]

75. Understood and respected.

[mr715]

69. And yes - crystal ball again

Maybe a miracle candidate could've done it.

Kamala Harris ran a pitch perfect campaign from where I was watching.

Also for the record I don't blame Joe Biden for Trump's win. I do think Joe Biden must bear some of the blame for his party's loss. He is in fact the President.

[Baggies]

64. Is this one of those threads...

Is this one of those threads where, if you had said anything about it when it was going on, someone would have alerted? Because I read a lot of comments from members who were saying what this article is saying in the same way and they got their post hidden because, you know, it was supposedly hurting the party.

[Baggies]

65. This is conflicting

“I celebrated his truly FDR-scale achievements” almost immediately followed by “(step aside and) allowing Harris to distance herself from your policies”.

So which one was it? If it’s FDR-scale achievements, why would you distance yourself? And if you distance yourself, isn’t that saying the policies weren’t working or popular?

It’s like these writers don’t even read their own words.

[In It to Win It]

78. I think both can be accomplished. Not all policies are unpopular

The industrial policy resulting in the infrastructure, factories, processing plants, and the "made in America" stuff... embrace that part of the policy. Not enough people know about that policy or it wasn't breaking through, so let them know. Tell the people you're gonna open more factories and have more shit made in America. Tout all the new projects in the swing states that took infrastructure money and the IRA money and tell them there's more on the way. Talk about the Sea Port Oil Terminal that the administration approved or something... Tell America that more is coming.

Distance yourself from the unpopular like the immigration and border stuff. Tell the people what you'd do differently. I remember reading before the 2022 midterms something like Joe Biden doesn't mind being the bad guy in your campaign. If you have to run "against" Joe Biden to win, do what you have to do.

Would any of that have helped? Maybe not, but who fucking knows...?

[Marthe48]

66. Not too late to change course

I hate the criminal lawlessness overtaking this country and I bitterly resent that traitor is steamrolling over law and decency.

Some p.o.s. local rqnj won a county position and crowed that there are no more Dems in any county position. What a shithead. They ll are.

[Asa13]

71. Sorry this is a load.

Last edited Fri Nov 15, 2024, 01:51 PM - Edit history (1)

Yes I'm new here but let's just call it the way it is. Trump goes around shitting his pants making incoherent statements and generally just being incompetent and what do the Republicans do rally around him harder. Joe biden had a bad debate which happens to alot of candidates regardless of age the democratic party and donors and the media all pulled out their knives and gave him the Caesar treatment into he finally agreed to step aside at their requests. Now the same people that stand him in the back want no blame for our loss and want to put it all on biden.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

83. Welcome to DU

[flamingdem]

73. Just tell me WHO that would have been

and maybe I'll believe it.

Whitmer no
Newsom no

WHO WHO WHO

No one was right for this round imo. Joe had done a great job.

[mr715]

76. Now I'm not so sure

but I thought Michelle Obama would be completely bulletproof.

[live love laugh]

77. Et Tu Rolling Stone?

[BootinUp]

79. Whats that saying about opinions? nt

[iemanja]

80. Carville was right all along.

[tritsofme]

82. In hindsight, Biden should not have sought reelection. An open and competitive primary could have a produced a better

and stronger candidate.

I don’t believe either of Whitmer, Shapiro, or Fetterman would have gotten frozen out of blue wall states.

But after Biden dropped out so late, the party was stuck with Harris, and there was simply no real opportunity to pivot.