Report from Gaza: Palestinians Feel They Are Being "Slowly Exterminated" in Israel's Genocide

[al bupp]

https://www.democracynow.org/2024/11/14/arwa_damon_gaza_healthcare

We go to Deir al-Balah in the central Gaza Strip, where we get an update from Arwa Damon of the humanitarian organization INARA on “deteriorating conditions” as Palestinians are “slowly exterminated” by disease and starvation caused by Israel’s brutal siege. A special U.N. committee has found that Israel’s actions in Gaza are “consistent with the characteristics of genocide.” Palestinians in Gaza feel that “they are living through their own annihilation,” says Damon. “There is actually a real sense that the worst is yet to come.”

Full transcript available on the site.

[ck4829]

1. It made the list

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides

[Mossfern]

35. Anyone can edit Wikopedia

n/t

[ck4829]

62. True, so anyone who wants to remove it can edit it too

[Beastly Boy]

74. Wikipedia...

Last edited Fri Nov 15, 2024, 07:36 AM - Edit history (1)

As there are varying definitions of genocide, this list includes events around which there is ongoing scholarly debate over their classification as genocide and is not a list of only events which have a scholarly consensus to recognize them as genocide. This list excludes mass killings which have not been explicitly defined as genocidal.

There is also an ongoing scholarly debate about space aliens. Doesn’t mean there is scholarly consensus on the issue.

[DiamondShark]

90. Hello.

[Darwins_Retriever]

2. Maybe the Palestinians should volunteer

To rid the middle east of Hamas, Hezbollah, and any other terrorist organizations. Instead of offering them protection.

[ck4829]

4. Russia is backing them too, but Israel's not bombing Russian bases left and right in Syria

Kind of inconsistent if you ask me.

[Tickle]

22. are you kidding?

This is not funny

[atreides1]

32. Right

One thing, Hezbollah is a Lebanese Shia Islamist political party and paramilitary group, not Palestinian!

[SocialDemocrat61]

57. Never let facts get in the way

of a snarky comment.

[riversedge]

3. Blocking the aid trucks is the worst thing happening at the point.. Using food as a tool

is horrible.

[Beastly Boy]

75. And nobody gives a shit who is blocking deliveries

Aid is being delivered into Gaza but is not being distributed once it gets to Gaza
and the abundance of undistributed aid creates bottlenecks in delivering more of it.

This is what the Gazan side of the Kerem Shalom Crossing looks like RIGHT NOW.

Approximately 900 trucks worth of aid are waiting to be picked up by aid organizations.

Some of the aid is waiting there for months!

We continuously urge the UN aid agencies - pick up the aid so more aid can get into Gaza.

Link to tweet

?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1856057671864201378%7Ctwgr%5E12adea1c3306c82fb77cb0affdbb060329927ab9%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2F%3Fcom%3Dview_postforum%3D1002pid%3D19714108

[Bettie]

5. Well, once that orange man

enters the white house, Netanyahu will speed it up and kill them more quickly, then move to the West Bank and kill the Palestinians there too.

[Initech]

8. I really wonder if the AP protestors who sat out the election are happy about their decision?

Because it's going to get way worse for them.

[Oopsie Daisy]

13. I remember their taunting of "hope you enjoy Trump" ... ironic, isn't it?

I wonder how much THEY will "enjoy Trump".

Idiots.

[al bupp]

16. So, now the response to any post that mentions the plight of Gaza or Palestinians

Has to come w/ withering criticism of American Palestinians and that they're now getting what they asked for. This seems like a kind of deflection to me.

[Oopsie Daisy]

25. Actually, it seems like kind of a dose of harsh reality to me. The chickens have come home to roost.

[JustAnotherGen]

29. Gotta agree with you on this

If I have to suffer under Trump - then so should they. They aren't special after all.

[Cha]

34. NO, It's NOT "deflection".. Muslims Voted for trump

and Messed with American Democracy.. they're Stupid and it needs to be pointed out.

We tried to Warn them and the Mayor of Dearborn said they went through TSF's first term they'd do it again. Not giving one thought to those in GAZA.

[al bupp]

44. It's a deflection from the genocide of Gazans

[Cha]

50. NO it fucking Isn't. The Muslims helped bring on the "genocide".

With their Stupidity Voting for trump.

Now they're begging Pres Biden for help.. Not calling him "Genocide Joe"

[al bupp]

55. What's been happening in Gaza and the West Bank now has nothing to do the voting patterns of AP

To pretend so seems like victim blaming to me, at best. The US government is the only power that could possibly stop Israel from it's terrible plan to completely rid, one way or another al of Gaza and the West Bank of Palestinians. That government is under Biden's control until next year.

[Cha]

56. Muslims NOT Calling Pres Biden "Genocide Joe" NOW.

[al bupp]

59. I hear that you're more concerned with the epithets being given to the President

than you are with the lives of people in Gaza and the West Bank

[Cha]

60. I don't care what you "hear".. Fuck the Muslim trump Voters.

Making Gaza Much Worse Off.. because they only thought about Revenge.

[AloeVera]

88. Sort of like Israel after Oct 7th? Revenge, retribution, total destruction, mass deaths?

Culminating in genocide and ethnic cleansing.

Yes, revenge is a terrible Biblical thing, some types way more terrible than others.

[elias7]

153. I don't think one should invite a war then complain about getting slaughtered.

You are implying intent you cannot be certain of - revenge, retribution. There has been pocketed destruction, not total destruction, and you can blame Hamas for inciting the conflict amidst a relative ceasefire that would certainly have this result. INTENTION is most attributable to Hamas here. What do you mean ethnic cleansing? The only cleansing has been of the Jews from every Arab Muslim land as well as from Judea/Samara. Arab Israelis are allowed in Israel, but Jews can’t build settlements in their holiest land?

When you say mass deaths, can you differentiate between combatants and civilians? Between those intentional shot by Hamas or blown up by their errant missiles vs those killed by the Israeli army?

This is not biblical, but it is existential for Israel, as you completely miss the point if you think this is about Israel and Gaza.

[Oopsie Daisy]

66. Rational people who listen closely to what she said do not hear that.

>> I hear that you're more concerned with the epithets being given to the President than you are with the lives of people in Gaza and the West Bank.

Rational people who listen closely to what she said do not hear that. The fact remains that the "Genocide Joe" epithets being hurled at Biden were much more than mere insults, name-calling and juvenile taunts. Rather, they served to telegraph their own intentions of never voting for Biden or Harris, and to encourage or give-permission for others to do the same. This also had the effect of creating fear, uncertainty, and doubt. It was a way to suppress the vote and diminish the turnout for Democratic candidates.

It's much the same as the "Uncommitted" movement, only with more vitriol. It made people believe that their little "protest vote" and "revenge vote" was a way to be noticed, but without having any negative effect on the outcome of the election. Others, who gleefully shouted "Enjoy Trump" were obviously more aware of the consequences of their actions, but their desire for a perfect world of rainbows and unicorns drove them to have unrealistic expectations. Their contempt for the Democrats wasn't just disapproval; it had which metastasized into burning desire for retribution, consequences be damned. In the end, it will be a heavy price to pay with regard to own community and loved ones at home.

[Cha]

89. Whoa.. Mahalo for Explanig tht so Well to the OP,

Oopsie Daisy!

I don't respond to insults well.

[Oopsie Daisy]

98. 😍🥰

[Cha]

104. Back...

[TheKentuckian]

68. What you heard is a huge crash of the only possible bridge for those folks has been blown up by

those supposedly that care the most about them.

Y'all knew the consequences but didn't care so you order is en route, to late to cancel it now and nobody wants to hear any more about and that is the among the most compassionate, me I want no Vaseline for doing their damndest to destroy us in a snit.

Fuck em. At this point, I hope the whole Middle East spends a thousand years under Jewish rule and that they take not only Gaza and the West Bank but Lebanon and Syria as Israel proper.

Not only am I pleased as punch to keep the arms pipeline but now it should be DRASTICALLY increased, I'm talking an aircraft carrier group, thousands of tanks and artillery pieces, a score of the most modern nuclear attack subs, all the gunships they can fly, the best ICBMs.

Fuck me and mine? Well, then here comes what you want all up the ass, no lube, no rest, no mercy.

[TheKentuckian]

127. I'm more concerned with how my paint is drying in year 11.

The bowel movement chose enemies poorly.

The same as "Pal and Pro Pal" was about me and mine.

Clear that terrorist rabble the fuck out, tough lesson to learn.

[AloeVera]

86. The genocide has been happening for 13 months.

And no one should have to beg for help to stop a genocide.

It amazes me that this has to be said.

[Beastly Boy]

92. It amazes me that it has been said. It amazes me more that it has been said hundreds of times.

It’s as if there is a determined effort to rid “genocide” of its intended meaning.

[EX500rider]

116. Apparently every war where a lot of civilians die is "genocide" , so every war i guess?

[Bettie]

46. It makes me sick that these people who

say they care about the people of Gaza voted to have them all killed.

I understood their protest in the primaries, but in the general election? They voted for death to the very people they say they were protesting on behalf of.

So, it makes me sad that they chose what is going to happen, with their eyes wide open.

[BannonsLiver]

51. Reality bites.

[AloeVera]

61. It's a clever deflection, demonization and victim-blaming for some...

...and careless, lashing-out knee-jerk for others. Perhaps the latter don't realize most Muslim/Arab voters are not even Palestinian - nor that it should not matter even if that were true. Or perhaps that maybe the problem is the genocide, not how anybody here voted.

We've been watching this movie for over a year. But even I am shocked at the level of vitriol and anticipatory schadenfreud I see.

It's as if Palestinians, if not just invisible and inferior whose lives are obviously considered cheap, are to blame for their own 13-month genocide. Or that they are only NOW going to suffer... Whoo Boy!

The level of concern for the horror they have already endured, and the ongoing reality of their genocide is really touching. /s

[jimfields33]

83. I don't understand why the Palestinians won't go to get the tremendous

amount of food waiting for them by the tons? Do they have anybody out of over 2 million who can distribute the food? It looks like a lack of organizing. I bet somebody could figure this out and get a group together of neighbors and dole it out. We do that in cities and areas all the time.

[AloeVera]

85. You are being lied to. Look outside your bubble. Nt

[sheshe2]

87. Well, they should have thought this through.

They voted against their best interests willingly, then gloated about it. Then a few days later they regret it. Their vote is not just going to kill their own, this whole country is now in peril.

Sorry about that, but it was their vote and their choice. I am a little more concerned about our own people right now, we are now the victims. I am frightened that their vote has unleashed. The Trumpers are now emboldened and our girls and women are in danger. The chants of young boys in the school yard, Your Body My Choice is putting every woman and girl at risk for abuse and rape. Women without access to healthcare will die by the thousands. LGBTQ are in danger of attacks because they have been unleashed to hate!

Healthcare is at risk if ACA is taken away, medicine such as contraceptives and vaccines will be denied. No more SS for the elderly. All this and so much more. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

So I am so very sorry that they were unable to see beyond the nose on their face. I dislike single issue voters, they are selfish and nearsighted. Sadly, the rest of us will have to pay for their decisions.

This country is well and truly f**ked now. We, as a people and some of our most needy Americans will have to pay the price and it will be a heavy one. We are the victims now.

[TheKentuckian]

125. You can say whatever you please. I don't want to hear about it at all.

100% enemy status.

Deflect that shit.

[Think. Again.]

31. And so many Dems who just didn't show up...

...I find it all very hard to believe.

[peregrinus]

67. You seem to be the 100 th

Person calling that. Why all the hate for a people who are the victims of genocide

[Initech]

69. I don't hate them.

I hate, and am extremely pissed off at the people who were tricked and brainwashed into voting against their best interests. We tell them how dangerous it is to fuck with right wing propaganda. But they did anyways. Netanyahu is a fascist thug. He's hanging out with Trump and Putin. Nothing good will come of this.

[Baitball Blogger]

9. Exactly what I was thinking.

Muslim Americans who voted for Trump are going to make the genocide go faster.

[malaise]

6. They are

with Western complicity

[Johnny2X2X]

7. It's awful

And I am one of those posters whose views on this radically changed over time. I was in the Israel has a right to defend itself by taking out Hamas camp for several months until it became obvious that this was no longer about defense of Israel, but about the complete and toal destruction of Gaza including most of its people. Israel took it too far and they did their best to influence our elections so they could get a green light from Trump formuch more harsh actions.

Israel now has its sights set on taking parts of the West Bank too.

[EX500rider]

19. So Israel is after the total destruction of all the people in Gaza?

And yet after over a year the number isn't much over 40,000 if you believe Hamas, of which a large number would be Hamas of course.
And all this in an urban environment, if they were trying the dead would be up to over a million+

[Johnny2X2X]

24. It's 43,000 dead 102,000 wounded and 1.9M people displaced according to the UN

With 54% of all structures destroyed or significantly damaged. They literally bombed it back to the stone age and conditions there are worse today than at any point in the last year. Gaza will never be made inhabitable again for the people who have lived there.

And for Bibi, it's kill as many as you can get away with and still have support from the US, and that bar is about to change dramatically in about 2 months.

It is genocide now, that is clear. Debating over how efficient the genocide is now seems to be the fall back. Bibi would kill them all if he thought he could get away with it, and that's what the majority of his supporters want to have happen.

[EX500rider]

73. It's not genocide if you're not trying to kill them all

And that much bombing without killing more than they have is them trying really hard not to, the US wouldn't have done any better

The US killing tons of Japanese by bombing in World War II wasn't genocide because if they surrendered we'd stop, if the Jews surrendered to Hitler it wasn't going to stop anything, if Hamas surrenders and gives up the hostages Israel will stop therefore not attempted genocide which has to have a intent

[atreides1]

33. Israel was waiting!

For the Trump win. They'll probably pick up the pace once Trump is officially back in the White House. Then we'll see the body count pick up!

[Beastly Boy]

77. Since 2005?

In 2005 Trump was busy running his casinos out of business while Hamas was busy expelling the Palestinian Authority out of Gaza.

That’s a lot of waiting for the body count to pick up, no?

[Bettie]

47. Biden would push back on an extermination plan

Trump will encourage it.

[AloeVera]

93. So you would be ok with 7 million dead Americans, then?

Or 200,000 Israelis?

Proportionally.

The 40,000 figure is a vast undercount, yet even that is being held up as an example of restraint in bizarro world.

[EX500rider]

94. If the US attacked another country and got attacked in return

And didn't surrender to a superior force while being defeated, no one should be surprised the war goes on until you surrender... pretty much how War works

[AloeVera]

96. Lol. And the Eastern Seaboard ethnically cleansed using starvation as a tool?

Then annexed and repopulated with your own people?

No one would stand for that war crime.

Different rules for Palestinians.

It's been a slice talking to you but no more.

I've already put on ignore most people who try to defend the cruel barbarity of a genocide.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

108. Yes? I mean, that's exactly what WW1, WW2, the Napoleonic Wars, and even the Civil War entailed.

C'mon man, basic civics and history here. Read a book. You may be "done" with that other poster but you're still wrong. I'd love to agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.

I swear, I envy those who can just ignore reality and pretend they live in some fantasy utopia. Unfortunately, I was gifted with a deficiency of ignorance.

[AloeVera]

114. You do seem to have a deficiency...

Perhaps not ignorance, though I do think you missed the classes on civilizational progress vis a vis the conduct of war, annexation of conquered lands and the whole humanitarian thing.

But in spite of all that, I don't think your head is the problem.

Good day.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

115. When a propaganda message is in doubt, attack the messenger. n/t

[EX500rider]

112. Gaza has been repopulated with Jews when did that happen?

So not actually looking for discussion board but just a place where people nod yes when you talk?

[AloeVera]

117. Even when "New Gush Katif" signs are put up all over Gaza North..

some will still claim there was no ethnic cleansing and Palestinians left willingly.

I like discussion but I'm pretty tired of engaging with views based on tribalism and rigid ideology. Tired of the gaslighting and defences for things I don't think should ever be defended. Never any progress understanding the other pov. And most of the discussion is veered towards topics that serve as deflection from actual war crimes. Look at Amsterdam, the hue and cry - when in reality it was instigated by violent Israeli fans who attacked first and the counter-attacks were fueled by anger at the fans and at the war, not anti-semitism. But it was a good deflection from the real horror of the ethnic cleansing, murder and starvation in north Gaza. It also served the extremist right-wing government to incitement more hatred toward migrants.

Always the same old, by the same people. Not gonna subject myself to it.

[EX500rider]

128. "ethnic cleansing" really stretching the definition there IMO

Asking Gazan's to move a few miles to another part of Gaza for their own safety during combat operations to clear out Hamas fighters is hardly "ethnic cleansing".

Would it better if they didn't ask them to move and many more got killed? "WAR CRIMES!"
Damned if they do, damned if they don't

[AloeVera]

129. When you have to literally starve people to get them to leave...

a place they don't want to leave...then perhaps your motive is not their safety and welfare.

Using food as a weapon to enact forcible transfer (war crimes) declaring there are "no civilians left" to enable the killing of anyone left there, imposing a communications blackout, banning foreign journalists so there are no witnesses - all of it to facilitate annexation and resettlement by a different people... I see that as ethnic cleansing.

You see it as a humanitarian gesture.

Never the 'twain shall meet...

[EX500rider]

130. When has Israel (the govt, not some looney Minister) said they going to annex & resettle Gaza?

[AloeVera]

132. If only...

If only Hitler had announced his intentions... Then the good German people would have known exactly what was coming out of those smoke stacks.

If only Auschwitz had a sign of "Extermination Camp" instead of Work Shall Make You Free....

If only people opened their eyes to the ugly truth.

[EX500rider]

140. I see, so it's all something you imagine might happen

And Hitler wasn't shy about his intentions.

During a speech at the Reichstag on 30 January 1939, German Führer Adolf Hitler threatened "the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe"

[AloeVera]

145. You know it's not my imagination. Unless you haven't kept up with the news.

"Hitler's Prophesy"? Dismissed as hyperbole and progaganda at the time by western powers. To be fair to them, it was made in the context of Hitler's negotiations to have the Americas take in German Jewry so they saw it as hubris and sabre-rattling. To my point, though, Hitler never "announced" the Final Solution or publicized what he was doing to Jews. He was evil but not stupid.

Likewise, Netanyahu. His final goals were not for public consumption, not just yet. They were clear to me from October 8th onward, and I think it's becoming more clear even to the doubters by now.

And likewise, the West did not heed the "Netanyahu Prophecy" - which came in the form of his infamous "Amalek" speech. Spare no man, woman, child or beast - isn't that the story of Amalek?

Seems history does repeat and we don't learn from it regardless.

[EX500rider]

147. "his infamous "Amalek" speech"

The PMO said that when Netanyahu used the biblical quotation “Remember what Amalek did to you,” he was using it as a way of describing the savage Hamas attack of October 7, and certainly not as a call for wanton killings.

The PMO pointed out that the same phrase appears in a permanent exhibit at the Yad Vashem Holocaust museum, as well at a memorial in The Hague itself for Dutch Jews murdered in the Holocaust.

“Obviously neither reference is an incitement to genocide of the German people,” the PMO said.
“So too Prime Minister Netanyahu’s reference to Amalek was not an incitement to genocide of Palestinians, but a description of the utterly evil actions perpetrated by the genocidal terrorists of Hamas on October 7th and the need to confront them,” the statement read.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/pms-office-says-its-preposterous-to-say-invoking-amalek-was-a-genocide-call/

[H2O Man]

10. Recommended.

They are correct. We are witnessing crimes against humanity.

[Ping Tung]

11. It is the job of thinking people, not to be on the side of the executioners. Albert Camus

[H2O Man]

36. Thank you.

[MustLoveBeagles]

12. American Palestinians who voted for TSF

Have guaranteed a genocide in Gaza.

[al bupp]

15. You are probably right

However, in their defense, I don't think that they swung the election to Trump either.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

27. We might have carried Michigan if they hadn't

[AloeVera]

133. And would that have elected Harris?

I don't think so.

There are only 160,000 Palestinian Americans (around 4 million Arab/Muslim Americans including kids). Not only do their kin endure what surely is already a genocide, now they are being scapegoated for the Democrats' loss as well as being blamed for the even worse genocide coming up. Talk about victim-blaming. The level and amount of vitriol and unbelievable schadenfreud by some tells me there is a lot of anti-Muslim/Arab/ sentiment even among Democrats.

Eyes opened.

[33taw]

28. They did in Michigan. I feel bad for the people in Gaza.

But there is not much we can do for them with Trump in charge.

[MustLoveBeagles]

54. Just in Michigan

I don't blame just them. There is plenty of blame to go around. The biggest factor in my opinion being misogyny.

[TheKentuckian]

70. At minimum they tried. I take it as an act of war regardless.

They swung it. Huge numbers of the couch surfers were in their camp and I'll cheer their misery as well.

[SidDithers]

14. Surely, Jill Stein will fix it...nt

Sid

[Cha]

37. Sid! Surely Rat Fucker Jill Stein will come to the Rescue.

[Initech]

39. There's definitely a special circle in hell reserved for Jill Stein.

[Cha]

45. I hope So.. That's Twice she's Assisted Putin and

brought America to HELL.

[Initech]

63. Let's hit the way back machine to... 5 weeks ago.

Anyone remember when she was teaming up with disgruntled Michigan Palestinians to flip Michigan for Fuckface? Well it worked. And unlike 2016, this was deliberate, intentional and done with malicious intent.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/jill-stein-sees-no-lesser-evil-between-harris-trump-interview-2024-10-07/

Fuck you Jill Stein. If there is a hell, may you rot in the hottest circle of it.

[Cha]

64. I think it was "Deliberate" in 2016, too.. Jill Stein LIED

in Swing States that Hillary and TSF were the same.

[Initech]

65. I'm sure it was deliberate. But it wasn't malicious like this time.

This time they really wanted to flip the Beltway, and they did it.

[SidDithers]

48. Hey Cha...

Sid

[Cha]

106. You surprised me...

[maxsolomon]

17. Excruciatingly slow extermination.

96% of Gazans who were there on 10/7 are still alive.

The end game has to be out-migration from Gaza; it's no longer plausible for 2.2 million-plus Palestinians to live there. But so far, other Arab nations, in particular Egypt and Jordan, want no part of it.

[Sundance1220]

26. It doesn't appear ANY Arab country wants any part of this

They've sent no troops, no weapons, no aid money. I know many hear don't want to hear this but I've been reading for years (in English language papers from these countries) that they're sick of throwing their money down the toilet. All the money meant for hospitals, schools, books, etc got taken by hamas who bought weapons and built tunnels while still whining about the plight to their people. It's been very effective in getting people with little idea of the history (not to mention reality) to pretend the Palestinians are victims of the Israeli's instead of their own leadership. Lebanon is is own crap show. The country has been taken over by iran and russian financed hezbollah and palestinian islamic jihad and yet they still whine to the west that it's all Israel's fault. Well, they've been offered a state numerous times in the last 75 years and went to war each and every time instead. The Israeli's have finally had enough of the rockets and missiles getting shot at them DAILY and are fighting back. I can't blame them.

Anyone who wants this to end would be demanding that hamas lay down their arms, unconditionally surrender and hand over every single hostage.

[Mosby]

131. Welcome to DU.

Nice to have you here.

[Mossfern]

38. For the gazillionth time ....

All they needed/need to do is to release all the hostages dead or alive and surrender.
It's on them (Gazans). Hamas has broken every cease fire.
It seems that some posters here on DU care more about the people of Gaza than Hamas does.

[maxsolomon]

40. OK, I'll be the DUer who cares more about Gazans than Hamas. That's not a real high bar.

"All they need to do is release the hostages" is apparently something Hamas won't (or can't) do.

[TheKentuckian]

118. They should not have taken them. No excuses.

They earned what they have coming.

[AloeVera]

134. "It's on them (Gazans").

For the gazillionth time, the 2.3 million people of Gaza are not "Hamas". They are human beings, regardless of who 45% of them voted for nearly two decades ago when most were not even alive or just children. The children being shredded, sniped and burned are for sure neither Hamas nor capable of releasing any hostages (as their parents).

Broke every ceasefire? A kernel of truth but not the whole truth and why does that even matter now? That talking point has long outlived its usefulness and has ZERO relation to this genocide.

I see the same sorry excuses over and over and each becomes more absurd and illogical as time passes. When all you have are old talking points - devoid of relevance and truth - to defend a genocide, it's time to open your eyes to the painful truth.

[Mossfern]

135. I am not blaming children

I am blaming UNRWA for teaching children hate and support of Hamas. Surely you are aware of that.

Hamas is made up of people who support them - yes they are human and they don't consider the consequences to those innocent Palestinians that will be affected by Hamas' actions. Since Hamas does not differentiate themselves from the general population of Gaza, they are putting innocents in jeopardy.

This is no genocide - it's war. People, innocent people, get killed in wars.
Certainly Hamas realized this when they attacked on 10/7?
It's been stated so many times here that they only need to return all hostages, recognize Israel as a sovereign state and discontinue attacks on Israeli civilians.

The above are not "talking points" - please don't try to deny the legitimacy of what I say by accusations of "talking points.'

The adults of a culture are responsible for the safety of its children. Instigating a war, not providing shelter for civilians and children is on Hamas and its supporters, not the nation that they attacked.

[AloeVera]

136. Not blaming children?

When you see all Palestinians as Hamas, you surely are. And that means you are fine with the results we are seeing.

UNRWA - you got another one in! My view is that its destruction was long planned- its banning based on largely falsehoods, evidence-free smears and propaganda- and of course it was always central to the erasure of Palestinians and the creation of Greater Israel. It was also central to the genocide and starvation in Gaza. I know there is lots of celebration in Israel, and here too. I find that outrageous and very sad.

Repeating that "it's war!" doesn't change the reality that it is much more than war. It's a genocide and ethnic cleansing and it's morally revolting.

[Mossfern]

138. I did not say that all Palestinians are Hamas

Do you think that all those anti-Israel/Jews textbooks were written by Israel?
UNRWA schools were allied with Hamas (not propaganda).
First about the source of the article:
https://unwatch.org/about-us/

Now the article:
https://unwatch.org/un-teachers-call-to-murder-jews-reveals-new-report/

What falsehoods are you referring to?
I'm sorry if this does not meet your views, but they are not "talking points" nor merely biased opinion.

[AloeVera]

139. I read the UN Watch report and rebuttals too.

It was used to smear the whole UN agency for Palestinians based on the actions of a few. Just as the banning of it in Gaza was and niw in Israel. None of the abuses it found was anything resembling pervasive or systemic. Nor is it surprising there were a few bad apples. You can't completely wipe out ideology and beliefs from the native population and unrwa is comprised of Palestinians as you know. But to paint the entire organization as bad smacks of ulterior motives and opportunism.

Without unrwa and the refugee status it confers on Palestinians, Israel will have a much freer hand at achieving its goals. It will be easier to grind Palestinians into the dust and the dustbin of history. You may not understand this, but I find that very disturbing.

[Mossfern]

141. How many is a "few" bad apples?

I have no issue with aid to Palestinians, even funding schools, but you are not accepting the reality that many Palestinian children were victims of the indoctrination of some UNRWA schools. How many? I don't know, but those children are the victims of Hamas and its teachings. I don't think they should die because of that.

Look up my posting history.
I am an advocate of Peace between the two peoples.
I have on more than one occasion provided links to the organization "Seeds of Peace."

I fear your disdain for me is misplaced.
https://www.seedsofpeace.org/

[AloeVera]

144. About a handful out of a workforce of 9,000 as I recall.

Aid/ Food and education should never be an issue, they are rights, it goes without saying. I gather you mean you have no issue with unrwa providing those services? Unfortunately the government of Israel disagrees with you.

Seeds of Peace seems like a worthy organization. I'm going to look into it further. Thank you for the info! Anything that promotes dialogue, connection and UNDERSTANDING of the other side snd recognition of their legitimate fears and grievances is worthy. I too believe that's where the path to peace lies. But I don't see much hope now I'm afraid.

TBH I don't know how to look up posting history. I only see the last few posts and recs on people's profiles. Using the search function yields pretty crappy results.

I don't mean to convey disdain. I am sorry for that. I just vehemently disagree sometimes and my emotions get the better of me. I truly feel both outrage at Israel's actions and deep sorrow for the Palestinians.

Peace.

[EX500rider]

148. "and ethnic cleansing" Still don't see how it is "ethnic cleansing" when the Gazan's are all still in Gaza..

...other then the small amount Eygpt let voluntarily cross their border.

Does the IDF want them out of certain areas of Gaza while they fight Hamas?
Yes, but moving a few miles away in Gaza hardly counts as "ethnic cleansing" no matter how many times you say it.


“The IDF’s warnings to members of the civilian population to temporarily distance themselves from areas expected to be exposed to intense warfare are made in accordance with the obligation under international law to take feasible precautions to mitigate civilian harm by providing advance warnings prior to attacks,”
The military has denied seeking to create permanent buffer zones, and Foreign Minister Gideon Sa’ar said on Monday that Palestinians displaced from their homes in northern Gaza would be allowed to return at the end of the war.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/hrw-accuses-israel-of-forcible-transfer-ethnic-cleansing-in-north-gaza-idf-denies/

[AloeVera]

149. "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command". - Orwell

I swear, Israelism is a cult.

THERE IS NO ETHNIC CLEANSING!! (Said while busy committing ethnic cleansing in broad daylight).

Cult: OK.

[EX500rider]

151. Moving Gazans temporarily around inside Gaza is not ethnic cleansing

No matter how much you want it to be.

Do they still live in Gaza? Yes

Have they been replaced with any other peoples? No

An example of actual ethic cleansing would be Stalin shipping Cossacks to Siberia and replacing them in their homelands with Russians

[AloeVera]

154. You are mischaracterizing ethnic cleansing.

It is the expulsion of a population from a given territory. Not necessarily all the people, or the whole territory. Bosnia for instance, that is widely recognized as ethnic cleansing.

So let's stop time at the point the Cossacks have been shipped off. They were still ethnically cleansed, no?

The logical conclusion of ethnic cleansing (the replacement) - and its raison d'être - is the byproduct of the crime, not the crime itself.

That it's happening in the north of Gaza the last 6 weeks is undeniable. Note that the HRW report only looked at events up to August and still made its conclusion.

HRW’s report argued that “the actions of the Israeli authorities in Gaza are the actions of one ethnic or religious group to remove Palestinians, another ethnic or religious group, from areas within Gaza by violent means.”

It alleged the nature of the displacement was organized, and that the intention of Israeli forces is to ensure affected areas will “remain permanently emptied and cleansed of Palestinians.”

But perhaps the best arbiter of what's happening is not HRW and certainly not you and me in the safety of our still-standing and warm homes, but the people actually experiencing this horror:

Ragheb al-Rubaiya, a 63-year-old Palestinian from north Gaza’s Jabalia Camp, said to AFP that he had been driven from his home after “bombing started from the air and the tanks, and they drove us out against our will.”

“They’re destroying everything in Jabalia, and the goal is clear even to the blind: to wipe out the north and cut it off from Gaza,” he added.

Destroying everything is how you prevent people from returning. Nothing to return to. Unlivable.

Starving - no food aid for 40 days - terror and denial of medical care are ways to "incentivize" the cleansing.

It's all part of the continuum of the genocide.

I can't see how it could be defended or denied but that's just me.

In parting, let me respond to this. You wrote:

No matter how much you want it to be.

That's the end of our discussion.

[EX500rider]

156. "It is the expulsion of a population from a given territory." Yes & the Gazan's are all still in Gaza

Moving around in the same territory for their own safety a few miles hardly counts. Israel says they can go back when they have cleared the area of Hamas

[AloeVera]

157. You have to keep reading. The part that comes after.

"Not necessarily... the WHOLE territory".

You selectively quoted.

Not engaging further.

[Beastly Boy]

152. You clearly see four fingers when the evidence shows you none..

If you are a fan of Orwell and 1984, you will get the reference.

So who is in the cult?

[al bupp]

49. That would be what's called ethnic cleansing

[Beastly Boy]

76. No it would not.

The working definition for ethnic cleansing (there is no legal definition) pertains to ridding certain territories of ethnic groups to make those territories more homogeneous in favor of the perpetrator.

How is ridding an entirely homogeneous Gaza of Gazans and replacing them, for arguments sake, with Israelis going to make Gaza more homogeneous? If anything, this would accomplish just the opposite, no?

The bitch is in the detail.

[Eko]

78. They just make Gaza part of Israel.

And fill it with Israelis kicking out the Palestinians. That would make it homogeneous.
homogeneous -of uniform structure or composition throughout
a culturally homogeneous neighborhood.

[Beastly Boy]

80. This will make Gaza more homogeneous only if everyone listens to you

And believes that you have a gift of clairvoyance.

Doesn’t sound likely.

[Eko]

81. Geez

homogeneous -of uniform structure or composition throughout
a culturally homogeneous neighborhood.

[Eko]

82. Whatever.

-of the same kind; alike.
-consisting of parts or people that are similar to each other or are of the same type: a homogeneous group/society.
-Homogeneous most generally means consisting of parts or elements that are all the same. Something that is homogeneous is uniform in nature or character
-Of the same kind; alike, similar. · Having the same composition throughout; of uniform make-up.

[Beastly Boy]

91. Ok, you are almost there

Now that you looked up the definition, only one question remains: what is more homogeneous, 100% Palestinian Arabs , or Palestinian Arabs mixed in with Israeli Jews, Druze and Bedouin?

Easy answer, no?

[Eko]

103. What?

I’m sorry, I didn’t see in the definition that it has to be more homogeneous than previously. Somehow I missed that.

[Eko]

122. Oh, I got it. You got confused.

"more homogeneous in favor of the perpetrator"
For some reason you saw "more homogeneous" and left out "in favor of the perpetrator".

[Beastly Boy]

123. No, you ain't got it. Not by a mile.

Actually, “in favor of perpetrator” is not in the working definition of ethnic cleansing. I added it for clarity for those who routinely don’t get it, even though this is not that hard to get it.Alas, all in vain!

Gaza was 100% ethnically homogeneous before Oct7. Gaza becoming less homogeneous, for whatever reason, doesn’t make any other ethnicity more homogeneous in Gaza. It makes Gaza less homogeneous. Duh!

By your logic, any occupying army crossing any border, no matter how and where and under what circumstances it happens, is committing ethnic cleansing. Hell , by your logic, any Mexican family crossing Rio Grande into Texas is committing ethnic cleansing! By your logic, they are the perpetrators, and they are making Texas more homogeneous in their favor.

How fucked up is that?

[Eko]

146. Wow, this is amazingly hilarious!

Actually, “in favor of perpetrator” is not in the working definition of ethnic cleansing. I added it

Jeeze you made something up! I am quelle surprised!! For some reason it reminds me of the time you said you had evidence but would not provide it. Yeah its not hard to get that you "added it". Not at all. By my logic! By my logic! You are the one here admitting, freaking admitting to making up things to use in arguments!!! Making things up, that is your logic. So if my logic doesn't compute with you I don't feel bad at all. Not in any way. You are the one making things up.

[Beastly Boy]

150. I made nothing up. The definition is there in its entirety, followed by a clarifying addendum.

But keep digging. Anything to escape addressing my post directly.

Can’t blame you..

[Eko]

155. Ah, yes, a clarifying addendum

That you made up admittedly.

[TheKentuckian]

119. Stop the attacks, release the hostages, and surrender

otherwise there is nothing for it.

No, they don't have a license to do whatever they want but the people they attack must refrain...for the children.

If they care about their kids, they can still stop but they don't.

That is what war is and if you don't like it then avoid starting wars.

[BlueTsunami2018]

18. It'll be much faster now.

I wonder what Hamas thought was going to happen when they launched that attack on October 7th. That they were going to win? That Iran and Russia were going to back them after the initial assault?

I still think it was a setup by Russia to divide the left here and help fuckface win.

They ended up killing themselves.

[Initech]

41. Don't know it if was a setup, but it was definitely a factor in the loss.

Fuck Netanyahu and fuck Putin.

[maxsolomon]

43. Sinwar thought it would pry Israel's allies away and kill any peace process with Arab nations.

That's kind of worked. The US stands alone at this point.

He calculated that the deaths would be worth it.

[Happy Hoosier]

20. It's about to get a lot worse. NT

[MineralMan]

21. And so they are.

That's how it looks to me, too.

[LexVegas]

23. We're going to have to live with the consequences of the choices of our elected government, and they do too. nt

[JustAnotherGen]

30. I have a feeling

None of the rest of the hostages are coming home.

[Initech]

42. It's the government of, by, and for talk show hosts.

And the assholes who watch and consume that garbage.

[doc03]

53. The USA will save them now since Trump

has been elected.

[Mosby]

58. The population of Palestine is growing, not shrinking.

Year Population Growth Rate
2024 5,494,963 2.30%
2023 5,371,230 2.31%
2022 5,250,072 2.27%

I guess the Israelis really suck at genocide.
Or maybe the rules of "genocide" are different for Israel.
Who knows.

[BuddhaGirl]

71. Horrible...and now it will

Just get worse. GENOCIDE

Shame on Israel.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/nov/13/israel-joe-biden-aid-gaza?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other&fbclid=IwY2xjawGjUsxleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHZFxP7UuYilEmtnmz5kRhuXjmtKjl_oKpCnLOPeCLx0C6G4Jcs0X84B_3Q_aem_9B_E7tMqTU7-7PJVC-aHUw

[ananda]

72. Don't worry, Palestinians and Muslims who voted for Trump ...

it will soon be quick.

[J_William_Ryan]

79. 'Palestinians in Gaza feel that "they are living through their own annihilation..."'

They are.

Israel enjoys absolute impunity.

[TheKentuckian]

120. They are getting what they demanded.

Israel has been too restrained.

[Historic NY]

84. Its going to escalate thats to all those that decided they would vote for Trump, Stein or

undecided. Yes all those protests didn't mean a damn thing. They really need to think about their vote4s.

[Rob H.]

95. Reading through some of these responses

I get the very strong impression that Netanyahu's not the only person who's glad Trump won when it comes to Gaza.

[Blue_Tires]

97. And just like I promised months ago

Now that the election is done after kneecapping the Dems, the "Free Gaza" crowd is nowhere to be seen... Vanished clear off the face of the fucking planet. No blocking traffic on bridges, nobody setting themselves on fire, no more speech disruptions, no camping out in front of politician homes, and no more destroyed university administration buildings... And where are all those smug "uncommitted" assholes in suburban Detroit who were hogging all the national news early in the year? I guess they didn't really care about "CEASEFIRE NOOOOOW!" and stopping "GENOCIIIIIIIIDE!" after all...

I knew they weren't serious when Biden took the time to grant them an audience at the White House and the motherfuckers walked out on him just to make a show(!)

I had them spotted as an op from the beginning... The were no different from the "anti-drone warfare" crowd pestering Hillary in 2016 and who ALSO disappeared the day after Donnie won the election... Remember those guys? Drone warfare was that year's do-or-die hot election topic for Dems until all of a sudden it wasn't... I really hope Dems don't fall for this shit again...

Now Gaza will be wiped off the map, Israel will expand their borders in a land grab (again) and Donnie might just join Netanyahu's all-out war against Iran. Perhaps that was part of the side deal he cut with Donnie at MAL? Kinda strange that the Free Gaza crowd didn't protest such a strange visit, innit? But if they started asking hard questions about Donnie's policy towards Gaza then they wouldn't be useful idiots, would they...?

[Hellbound Hellhound]

110. Most of the "Pro-palestinian" crowd are just Anti-Democrat and Democracy and have been from the start.

It's a badge they wear with honor, and their opinions should be discarded as a matter of course. They elected Trump and they're unapologetic about it. If someone tells you "I just support Palestine!" there's a good chance they voted Trump.

[Blue_Tires]

111. Either that or they voted for Jill Stein

[Hellbound Hellhound]

113. At best. Actively campaigned against Harris at worst. n/t

[republianmushroom]

99. The convicted felon will be sending some back shortly.

[Autumn]

101. Maybe because they are.

[pinkstarburst]

105. It will only get worse. And we are now powerless to do a thing

to help them as we are in our own terrible mess for the next four years, unable to save ourselves. And every person who voted for the person who is now about to take power or who sat out the election and didn't vote, out of protest for Gaza... should not be pleading for the US to intervene. Do they really not understand what has happened and what is about to happen? We're all in so, so much trouble. God help us all.

[Takket]

121. no to worry.........

Their brothers and sisters in the USA have punished "Genocide Joe" and Harris for what they've done, and on Jan 20th drumpf will take office, and force Bibi to withdraw from Gaza, and life there will return to normal.

x100000000000000000000

[AloeVera]

137. More victim-blaming.

Surely the 160,000 Palestinian Americans is why Harris lost.

[Beastly Boy]

142. Who is the victim in your "victim blaming"?

Voters who voted for Trump?

Jeez! Who are you defending here on DU?

[David__77]

124. Ethnic cleansing

[Beastly Boy]

143. Bullshit.

[Richard D]

126. Sorry...

But all they need to do is release the hostages, stop terrorist attacks on Israel, and accept Israel's right to exist.