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[milestogo]

This message was self-deleted by its author (milestogo) on Tue Nov 19, 2024, 08:36 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[TheProle]

1. How would go about squaring that

with the convo, handshake and photo op with him 4 days ago?

[milestogo]

4. He could say he was just kidding.

You know, like Trump always does.

[bucolic_frolic]

22. lol. you mean the sting operation where Orange surrendered his information?

That should cover it.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

2. And what would that accomplish exactly?

[milestogo]

3. Have the military arrest him for treason

and put him on trial for all of the crimes of which he is accused.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

26. Simply declaring a state of emergency

does not lead necessarily or inevitably to arresting Trump for treason. Those are two very different things.

[questionseverything]

28. Trump should have been arrested for all the classified material he stole

[markodochartaigh]

34. "...put him on trial for all of the crimes of which he is accused."

The US justice system has failed in its most important task ever. The parts which failed are still in place. We have no backup system of justice. Unless and until the authoritarian cancer is cleaned from the US justice system there will be no real justice in the US. There may be show trials in which the powerful buy as much justice as they can afford, or, if they are out of favor, are convicted in modern star chamber type proceedings.

But there is no way to abruptly resuscitate the US judicial system which is on life support.

[Magoo48]

53. It would help set the tone for a nationwide response to the eminent Emergency.

It will awaken a larger portion of the citizenry to our nation’s historic stance against fascism.

[DingleBerryNW]

5. My 2 cents

I tend to agree with you. This is a 5 alarm national emergency. Considering President Biden’s love for our nation, it’s hard to believe he would allow its demise.

[Magoo48]

54. This response is worth a lot more than 2 cents.

[usonian]

6. See my wish list. A lot of doors need to barred.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219737742

[global1]

7. I'm Hoping Biden Taped Their Conversation And He.....

got Tr**p to admit to what his intentions are for the country and implicated himself.

[SWBTATTReg]

8. He won't do a damn thing, just like Garland wouldn't. I am thoroughly disappointed. Absolutely disappointed.

[milestogo]

9. They will say the US let go of democracy without so much as a whimper.

[yellow dahlia]

36. I am so afraid of that. n/t

[Frank D. Lincoln]

15. The irony is that

Biden could have replaced Garland with a bulldog AG when 60 days passed after J6 without Trump being indicted and we wouldn't be in this mess.

[yellow dahlia]

38. Biden was afraid to replace Dept heads and Cabinet members,

because of the level of chaos in the previous administration.

It is a kind of restraint dictated by the reverse psychology of the bad behavior of others. An almost subliminal kind of control. IMHO

[Sympthsical]

10. It's very "We must destroy democracy to save it"

Which, I'm going to pass on for the nonce.

This post-election period is showing more . . . enthusiasts for authoritarian rule as long as it's our authoritarian than I think I'm comfortable with.

It has whiffs of, "You believed me when I said I wanted to save democracy? LOL, no no. I meant if I win that saves democracy. If I lose, that shit can go."

Which sounds awfully familiar, tbh.

[TheKentuckian]

11. My thoughts are similar. It isn't democracy being saved if it is overridden

I'm not sure it is worst than the alternative but I wish folks would be more honest about preferring our dictator and stop pretending they are promoting self determination.

[Sympthsical]

12. Even Lincoln had elections during the Civil War

And he was extremely . . . flexible with the Constitution in places during all that.

He was firmly convinced McClellan would win in 1864 and that it would probably spell the end of the Union with "a shameful peace," yet he knew if that was the course the People decided, then so be it. He made arrangements for that scenario and democratic transition with a flurry of contingencies - but he never planned to stay in office. But then came Fremont bouncing and "Atlanta is ours and fairly won" and other victories, and Lincoln's political fortunes shifted.

If he could respect elections under the most extreme circumstances, I think we can manage this.

[jaxexpat]

19. To be fair, Lincoln was looking at losing half the country to rebels. We're losing the whole country to mobsters.

Beware of false equivalence. It is the enemy of reason and the ally of endless lies. It is only useful for those who want to undermine through propaganda or capitulate in the face of inconvenience.

[yellow dahlia]

39. Exactly!

[tritsofme]

13. There are probably a dozen "national emergencies" in effect. Did you mean to say you want Biden to stage a coup?

But you didn’t want to actually say it?

[Elessar Zappa]

14. And do what?

His options are limited.

[elocs]

16. Enjoy the fantasies because Biden is too good and decent to do anything other than

exactly what is exactly what would be exactly what he is expected to do regardless of what Trump has openly said he would do because Trump openly has and displays his contempt for America.

[BattleRow]

17. Casting pearls before treasonous swine?

[milestogo]

21. All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

(Edmund Burke)

[jaxexpat]

44. Ah, Mr. Burke to the rescue, with sanity. Ergo, good people must act to thwart the actions of bad people.

Knowledge is the friend of democracy. Knowledge is a good thing. It is the opposite of ignorance. It is the antithesis of misinformation. When democracy is performed with little or no knowledge, the outcome is a matter of chance vis-a-vis good outcome/bad outcome. When elections are performed by misinformed people, the outcome is certain, reflecting the intent of those who disseminate untruth. Democracy fails when performed by people whose choices are made based on misinformation because democracy only works when the electorate is informed.

We delude ourselves when we believe democracy will repair itself when misinformation is the nature of the electorate's common knowledge. If every election is a contest of falsehood versus fact, both sharing equal standing, the best outcome will always run an ever more distant second. The phenomenon will proceed, self-generating, without pause, automatically churning out ever more disappointing results.

The question becomes, when is it no longer democracy? The answer to that lies in the determination of people to demand an end to propaganda. The concept of restoring, revalidating, democracy by, perhaps, extra-normal means is called here by some tantamount to intentional dictatorship. This is a false equivalence and a product of misinformation similar to the common attitudes toward "freedom" of speech. That being, free speech is absolute. Just as it is unlawful for dissemination of some public communication, so must it be lawful to prosecute those who break that law until and if/when the law is changed. The nation needs an intercession. A time-out, if you prefer. The inevitable uncertainty of moments in great flux cannot be allowed to cause doubt of our intention and there is no room for false equivalence in a conversation so serious. It's really about taking back the narrative. Why is that so scary?

[Asa13]

18. So we should kill democracy to save it

That sounds like a terrible idea to me

[milestogo]

20. That isn't what I suggested at all.

Declaring an emergency for a legitimate reason is not killing democracy.

Declaring an emergency for an illegitimate reason (I hate these immigrants and want them deported) is an abuse of democracy, and it is the first of many abuses he has promised to perform.

[tritsofme]

23. Right right, emergencies for me but not for thee.

The coup that you want is moral and righteous, while their attempted 2020 coup was evil and bad.

All makes sense!

[jaxexpat]

45. False equivalence.

[tritsofme]

46. Only in the mind of someone twisting themselves in a knot trying to justify their support for a coup.

[jaxexpat]

49. We'll all see who's twisted into a knot after 1/20/2025. I surely hope I'm wrong.

My point of logic is simple. The current moment is the last time it will be this easy, efficient or perhaps even possible. Everyone seems bent out of shape with fear of some bloody and endless civil war as if the secession issue of the 19th century was somehow comparable to this mob takeover. That was a quaint and isolated affair when set against today's Trump 2.0.

[tritsofme]

50. No one is going to stage a coup. What's the point of a discussion so divorced from reality?

[Polybius]

24. So who becomes President on January 20th in your plan?

Biden? Harris? Vance?

[Lokee11]

37. Democracy has already been killed

A Democracy with people that have functioning brains, would not vote for someone who did multiple things on this list - let alone -
ALL OF THEM:
incited an insurrection against the government,
mismanaged a pandemic that killed nearly half a million Americans,
separated children from their families, lost those children in the bureaucracy,
tear-gassed peaceful protesters on Lafayette Square so he could hold a photo op holding a Bible in front of a church,
tried to block all Muslims from entering the country,
Arguable ordered a Mafia hit on his own ambassador ("Get her out tomorrow. Take her out, OK? Do it." - to someone who has no authority to fire an Ambassador, so lets not act like we do not know what "Take her Out, Ok? Do it" means - he was not talking about dinner!)
got impeached,
got impeached again,
had the worst jobs record of any president in modern history,
pressured Ukraine to dig dirt on Joe Biden,
fired the FBI director for investigating his ties to Russia,
bragged about firing the FBI director on TV,
took Vladimir Putin’s word over the US intelligence community,
diverted military funding to build his wall,
caused the longest government shutdown in US history,
called Black Lives Matter a “symbol of hate,”
lied nearly 30,000 times,
banned transgender people from serving in the military,
ejected reporters from the White House briefing room who asked tough questions,
vetoed the defense funding bill because it renamed military bases named for Confederate soldiers,
refused to release his tax returns,
increased the national debt by nearly $8 trillion,
had three of the highest annual trade deficits in U.S. history,
called veterans and soldiers who died in combat losers and suckers,
coddled the leader of Saudi Arabia after he ordered the execution and dismembering of a US-based journalist,
refused to concede the 2020 election,
hired his unqualified daughter and son-in-law to work in the White House,
called neo-Nazis “very fine people,”
suggested that people should inject bleach into their bodies to fight COVID,
abandoned our allies the Kurds to Turkey,
pushed through massive tax cuts for the wealthiest but balked at helping working Americans,
incited anti-lockdown protestors in several states at the height of the pandemic,
withdrew the US from the Paris climate accords,
withdrew the US from the Iranian nuclear deal,
withdrew the US from the Trans Pacific Partnership which was designed to block China’s advances,
insulted his own Cabinet members on Twitter,
pushed the leader of Montenegro out of the way during a photo op,
failed to reiterate US commitment to defending NATO allies,
called Haiti and African nations “shithole” countries,
called the city of Baltimore the “worst in the nation,”
claimed that he single handedly brought back the phrase “Merry Christmas” even though it hadn’t gone anywhere,
forced his Cabinet members to praise him publicly like some cult leader,
believed he should be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize,
berated and belittled his hand-picked Attorney General when he recused himself from the Russia probe...
suggested the US should buy Greenland,
colluded with Mitch McConnell to push through federal judges and two Supreme Court justices after supporting efforts to prevent his predecessor from appointing judges,
repeatedly called the media “enemies of the people,”
claimed that if we tested fewer people for COVID we’d have fewer cases,
violated the emoluments clause,
thought that Nambia was a country,
told Bob Woodward in private that the coronavirus was a big deal but then downplayed it in public,
called his exceedingly faithful vice president a “p---y” for following the Constitution,
nearly got us into a war with Iran after threatening them by tweet,
nominated a corrupt head of the EPA,
nominated a corrupt head of HHS,
nominated a corrupt head of the Interior Department,
nominated a corrupt head of the USDA,
praised dictators and authoritarians around the world while criticizing allies,
refused to allow the presidential transition to begin,
insulted war hero John McCain – even after his death,
spent an obscene amount of time playing golf after criticizing Barack Obama for playing (far less) golf while president,
falsely claimed that he won the 2016 popular vote,
called the Muslim mayor of London a “stone cold loser,”
falsely claimed that he turned down being Time’s Man of the Year,
considered firing special counsel Robert Mueller on several occasions,
mocked wearing face masks to guard against transmitting COVID,
locked Congress out of its constitutional duty to confirm Cabinet officials by hiring acting ones,
used a racist dog whistle by calling COVID the “China virus,”
hired and associated with numerous shady figures that were eventually convicted of federal offenses including his campaign manager and national security adviser,
pardoned several of his shady associates,
gave the Presidential Medal of Freedom to two congressman who amplified his batshit crazy conspiracy theories,
got into telephone fight with the leader of Australia(!),
had a Secretary of State who called him a moron,
forced his press secretary to claim without merit that his was the largest inauguration crowd in history,
botched the COVID vaccine rollout,
tweeted so much dangerous propaganda that Twitter eventually banned him,
charged the Secret Service jacked-up rates at his properties,
constantly interrupted Joe Biden in their first presidential debate,
claimed that COVID would “magically” disappear,
called a U.S. Senator “Pocahontas,”
used his Twitter account to blast Nordstrom when it stopped selling Ivanka’s merchandise,
opened up millions of pristine federal lands to development and drilling,
got into a losing tariff war with China that forced US taxpayers to bail out farmers,
claimed that his losing tariff war was a win for the US,
ignored or didn’t even take part in daily intelligence briefings,
blew off honoring American war dead in France because it was raining,
redesigned Air Force One to look like the Trump Shuttle
got played by Kim Jung Un and his “love letters,”
threatened to go after social media companies in clear violation of the Constitution,
botched the response to Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico,
threw paper towels at Puerto Ricans when he finally visited them,
pressured the governor and secretary of state of Georgia to “find” him votes,
thought that the Virgin islands had a President,
drew on a map with a Sharpie to justify his inaccurate tweet that Alabama was threatened by a hurricane,
allowed White House staff to use personal email accounts for official businesses after blasting Hillary Clinton for doing the same thing,
rolled back regulations that protected the public from mercury and asbestos,
pushed regulators to waste time studying snake-oil remedies for COVID,
rolled back regulations that stopped coal companies from dumping waste into rivers,
held blatant campaign rallies at the White House,
tried to take away millions of Americans’ health insurance because the law was named for a Black man,
refused to attend his successors’ inauguration,
nominated the worst Education Secretary in history,
threatened judges who didn’t do what he wanted,
attacked Dr. Anthony Fauci,
promised that Mexico would pay for the wall (it didn’t),
allowed political hacks to overrule government scientists on major reports on climate change and other issues,
struggled navigating a ramp after claiming his opponent was feeble,
called an African-American Congresswoman “low IQ,”
threatened to withhold federal aid from states and cities with Democratic leaders,
went ahead with rallies filled with maskless supporters in the middle of a pandemic,
claimed that legitimate investigations of his wrongdoing were “witch hunts,”
seemed to demonstrate a belief that there were airports during the American Revolution,
demanded “total loyalty” from the FBI director,
praised a conspiracy theory that Democrats are Satanic pedophiles,
completely gutted the Voice of America,
placed a political hack in charge of the Postal Service,
claimed without evidence that the Obama administration bugged Trump Tower,
suggested that the US should allow more people from places like Norway into the country,
suggested that COVID wasn’t that bad because he recovered with the help of top government doctors and treatments not available to the public,
overturned energy conservation standards that even industry supported,
reduced the number of refugees the US accepts,
insulted various members of Congress and the media with infantile nicknames,
gave Rush Limbaugh a Presidential medal of Freedom at the State of the Union address,
named as head of federal personnel a 29-year old who’d previously been fired from the White House for allegations of financial improprieties,
eliminated the White House office of pandemic response,
used soldiers as campaign props,
fired any advisor who made the mistake of disagreeing with him,
demanded the Pentagon throw him a Soviet-style military parade,
hired a shit ton of white nationalists,
politicized the civil service,
did absolutely nothing after Russia hacked the U.S. government,
falsely said the Boy Scouts called him to say his bizarre Jamboree speech was the best speech ever given to the Scouts,
claimed that Black people would overrun the suburbs if Biden won,
suggested he was fine with China’s oppression of the Uighurs,
attacked the Supreme Court when it ruled against him,
summoned Pennsylvania state legislative leaders to the White House to pressure them to overturn the election,
refused to allow his administration to comply with Congressional subpoenas,
tried to punish Amazon because the Jeff Bezos-owned Washington Post wrote negative stories about him,
acted as if the Attorney General of the United States was his personal attorney,
attempted to get the federal government to defend him in a libel lawsuit from a women who accused him of sexual assault,
held private meetings with Vladimir Putin without staff present,
didn’t disclose his private meetings with Vladimir Putin so that the US had to find out via Russian media,
stopped holding press briefings for months at a time,
“ordered” US companies to leave China even though he has no such power,
blurted out classified information to Russian officials,
tried to force the G7 to hold their meeting at his failing golf resort in Florida,
fired the acting attorney general when she refused to go along with his unconstitutional Muslim travel ban,
openly discussed national security issues in the dining room at Mar-a-Lago where everyone could hear them,
interfered with plans to relocate the FBI because a new development there might compete with his hotel,
abandoned Iraqi refugees who’d helped the U.S. during the war,
tried to get Russia back into the G7,
held a COVID super spreader event in the Rose Garden,
seemed to believe that Frederick Douglass is still alive,
lost 60 election fraud cases in court including before judges he had nominated,
falsely claimed that factories were reopening when they weren’t,
shamelessly exploited terror attacks in Europe to justify his anti-immigrant policies,
still hasn’t come up with a healthcare plan,
still hasn’t come up with an infrastructure plan despite repeated “Infrastructure Weeks,”
forced Secret Service agents to drive him around Walter Reed while contagious with COVID,
told the Proud Boys to “stand back and stand by,”
claimed Andrew Jackson could’ve stopped the Civil War even though he died 16 years before it happened,
said that any opinion poll showing him behind was fake,
claimed that other countries laughed at us before he became president when several world leaders were literally laughing at him, claimed that the military was out of ammunition before he became President,
created a commission to whitewash American history,
retweeted anti-Islam videos from one of the most racist people in Britain,
claimed ludicrously that the Pulse nightclub shooting wouldn’t have happened if someone there had a gun even though there was an armed security guard there,
hired a senior staffer who cited the non-existent Bowling Green Massacre as a reason to ban Muslims,
had a press secretary who claimed that Nazi Germany never used chemical weapons even though every sane human being knows they used gas to kill millions of Jews and others
bilked the Secret Service for higher than market rates when they had to stay at Trump properties,
apparently sold pardons on his way out of the White House,
stripped protective status from 59,000 Haitians,
falsely claimed Biden wanted to defund the police,
said that the head of the CDC didn’t know what he was talking about,
tried to rescind protection from DREAMers,
said U.S. rates of COVID would be lower if you didn’t count blue states,
deported U.S. veterans who served their country but were undocumented,
touted a “super-duper” secret “hydrosonic” missile which may or may not be a new “hypersonic” missile or may not exist at all, retweeted a gif calling Biden a pedophile,
forced through security clearances for his family,
suggested that police officers should rough up suspects,
tried to stop transgender students from being able to use school bathrooms in line with their gender,
suggested the US not accept COVID patients from a cruise ship because it would make US numbers look higher,
nominated a climate change sceptic to chair the committee advising the White House on environmental policy,
retweeted a video doctored to look like Biden had played a song called “F**k tha Police” at a campaign event,
accused Democrats of “treason” for not applauding his State of the Union address,
claimed that the FBI failed to capture the Parkland school shooter because they were “spending too much time” on Russia,
mocked the testimony of Dr Christine Blasey Ford when she accused Brett Kavanaugh of sexual assault,
obsessed over low-flow toilets,
ordered the rerelease of more COVID vaccines when there weren’t any to release,
called for the construction of a bizarre garden of heroes with statutes of famous dead Americans as well as at least one Canadian (Alex Trebek),
hijacked Washington’s July 4th celebrations to give a partisan speech,
took advice from the MyPillow guy,
claimed that migrants seeking a better life in the US were dangerous caravans of drug dealers and rapists,
said nothing when Vladimir Putin poisoned a leading opposition figure,
never seemed to heed the advice of his wife’s “Be Best” campaign,
falsely claimed that mail-in voting is fraudulent,
announced a precipitous withdrawal of troops from Syria which not only handed Russia and ISIS a win but also prompted his defense secretary to resign in protest,
insulted the leader of Canada, insulted the leader of France, insulted the leader of Britain, insulted the leader of Germany, insulted the leader of Sweden (Sweden!!),
falsely claimed credit for getting NATO members to increase their share of dues,
said that the Japanese would sit back and watch their “Sony televisions” if the US were ever attacked,
left a NATO summit early in a huff,
stared directly into an eclipse even though everyone over the age of 5 knows not to do that,
called himself a very stable genius despite significant evidence to the contrary,
refused to commit to a peaceful transfer of power and kept his promise,
recently simulated fellatio on a microphone
held a Nazi rally reminiscent of 1939 at MSG - where his people referred to PR has a floating island of Trash

and that is not a complete list nor not even the worst of it -

He is an adjudicated Rapist
A FELON - 34 felony counts
A FUCKING TRAITOR - Took documents to Shit-A -Lago and refused to return them (probably sold info to the highest bidder and led to the death of Americans)
A Fraudster - initially ordered to pay almost 1/2 a Billion $'s
An actual accused pedophile - accused of raping a 13 year old (He is Epstein's main man by most indications)

So say what you want - Polls don't mean nothing, the Orange Turd literally saying they have a little secret and he does not need votes was hyperbole, Kamala packing arenas, Orange Hitler giving fellatio to microphone's in barren venues, Red states denying the DOJ access initially, people voting for initiatives and then voting for the Candidate in direct opposition of that initiative, does not matter or mean anything, completely forget about ROEvember movement, and every indicator pointing North on the 4th, yet going South on the 5th, yeah - I mean None of that matters, because we just have to trust we are not being scammed!

I for one want a recount - by hand - because when something seems to be that far out of whack, that fucking crazy, I tend to believe something is probably not right and should be checked - but that is just me.

And if I am wrong and everything is on the up and up - then democracy is still pretty much dead - because it is now manipulated to the point that - NOT ALL but TOO MANY - people have been indoctrinated to believe up is down, left is right and forward is back, right
is wrong and wrong is right - and when that happens, it only follows that Democracy does no longer exist and it becomes nothing more than Tyranny!

FDT!!!!!

[yellow dahlia]

41. Thank you for putting it all out there.

Are propaganda and misinformation, and the dumbing down of America the only culprits? Or did they have other help?

[Hotler]

25. After reading the attached, I see why there was no will from the get go to hold the orange convict acountable.

https://democraticunderground.com/100219737548

[live love laugh]

27. For what? So Clooney, Stephanopolous and the news script writers can descend again?

[rich7862]

29. Now your talking!

[ShazamIam]

30. I think we need a national movement to not allow the Constitutionally disqualified and mentally unfit Trump to take

office. Is there some way the Democratic attorneys could challenge him on the basis of being unfit?

[TheKentuckian]

47. No, there is no such process other than prevailing on his electors

So...no...not even a decent pipedream of an opportunity there.

A movement? We had an election two weeks ago.

That was the contest.
The absolute importance was stressed over and over and performance art, chanting, marching, and "movements" are piss poor substitutes for plain old, anonymous, boring voting.

That was the one job.

There is no where and no one to challenge to.

[Kid Berwyn]

31. Trump had Top Secret bathroom at Marmalardo

Fricking traitor isn’t just getting off scot-free, he’s coming back as Sheriff Trump of the Gestapo with co-conspirator John Roberts running the courts for NAZI loving oligarchs.

No wonder Trump want’s loyalty oaths from the Joint Chiefs. They’re the only ones standing between the Spirit of ‘76 and the living ghosts of Al Capone and Roy Cohn incarnate.

One man stands between Democracy and fascism. His name is Joseph R. Biden.

[Polybius]

32. Surely that would start a second Civil War

And one that we would not end up winning.

[AdamGG]

33. This would be pointless, but...

Biden and the Senate need to fill every single federal judgeship and encourage some older judges to retire and replace them. Keep the Senate in session over recess, if necessary.

[tritsofme]

42. I agree, but think it's important to note that Biden will have confirmed more lower court judges than Trump by January.

Schumer’s pace has been extraordinary.

[AdamGG]

43. Great - wasn't aware of that

Obama got short changed by Moscow Mitch holding up as many of his appointments as he could and passing them on to Trump.

[Baron2024]

35. I Think That It Simply Should Be Illegal For A Felon To Be President

Trump should have been prosecuted and convicted by now for the January 6th Insurrection. The defenders of the Constitution have failed. Garland is a failure and now we all have to suffer.

[TheKentuckian]

48. It isn't and it is near impossible to make it so.

The Constitution sets the qualifications and depends on the electorate to make rational decisions otherwise.

Yes, theoretically when he lived Charles Manson could have been elected from his cell.

[Takket]

40. what would be funny is to do it, and make the supreme court shut it down, knowing that restriction will carry over to

drumpf's term. of course knowing this SCROTUS they'll say "uhhhhhhhhhhhhh declaring a national emergency is not a deeply held tradition if your last name starts with a B, but otherwise its fine, because, reasons. blah blah blah."

you know. just make non-legal shit up like they did with Dobbs.

[DemMedic]

51. Yes, full immunity

[Shrek]

52. Makes you wonder why Trump didn't do it in 2020

Maybe because it's an absurd fantasy.