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angrychair

(9,810 posts)
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 01:04 PM Nov 22

Complete Failure of the Legal System

With the latest ruling from New York in favor of not sentencing the convicted felon the final nail has been hammered down on the coffin lid of the legal system.
First we were told AG Garland was working on it. He wasn't.
Then we were told the special counsel would get him. He did not. Nothing happened.
Then we were told that state courts would hold him accountable. They will not.

Children across this country have been shown that wealth and privilege will, very literally, get you out of anything. That you can even rape woman and children and get convicted of crimes but not only will nothing happen to you but you can get elected POTUS.
I am continuing to try my best to be positive but some days are easier than others. Today is not a good day. My fear that we are a nation in decline is palpable. That the nation will crumble in my lifetime is now a very real possibility.
We are collapsing under our own weight and people are not even paying attention.
As a nation we have become lazy and ignorant and just assumed that other people will fix it for us.
We became so enamored with wealth and privilege we stopped caring how it was achieved. So obsessed with the ideal of the lifestyles of the rich and famous that we forgot to consider the costs of that lifestyle on ourselves.
We praised the Waltons and willfully ignored their gutting of small rural communities.
We idolized billionaires without any critical analysis of how their hoarding of wealth was tearing at the very fabric of our nation.

We are rapidly accelerating toward a brick wall. I hope we have the good sense to hit the brakes but fear it may already be to late.

57 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Complete Failure of the Legal System (Original Post) angrychair Nov 22 OP
He'll nvr be accountable XanaDUer2 Nov 22 #1
Wonder how much that cost Elon? NotHardly Nov 22 #21
Cost? Musk has exploded in net worth since he went full MAGAt. Celerity Nov 23 #40
Yep rule of law and guardrails do not exist in the US. Irish_Dem Nov 22 #2
Waiting for justice, 46 months and counting republianmushroom Nov 22 #3
Bamboozled, hoodwinked, okey-doked, Mullered. Let's clog up the works. Resist. Magoo48 Nov 22 #20
And those that said this case was going at a fast pace (from Texas), republianmushroom Nov 22 #24
They are now gloating celebrating their victory. nt RandiFan1290 Nov 23 #50
We are a nation in decline. cilla4progress Nov 22 #4
Africa rising. Celerity Nov 23 #41
The solution to all this MadameButterfly Nov 23 #44
i agree and I don't see it changing. Our civil society is crumbling. walkingman Nov 22 #5
Exactly their point angrychair Nov 22 #6
Yes, it's the Oligarchs, stupid MadameButterfly Nov 23 #45
Something I have been saying even when everyone was drooling over them. (n/t) OldBaldy1701E Nov 23 #51
The legal system exists for the powerful to use the state's monopoly on violence RockRaven Nov 22 #7
What did I miss? Did the NY judge decide not to sentence the orange criminal? brush Nov 22 #8
He postponed sentencing indefinitely muriel_volestrangler Nov 22 #28
God! We've got a failed justice system in cases against the powerful and wealthy. brush Nov 22 #31
Technically True DallasNE Nov 23 #37
How/why Merrick Garland dragged his feet,...Servants of the Mafia State,... magicarpet Nov 23 #54
If money trumps peace... Kid Berwyn Nov 22 #9
Case has not been dismissed yet David Boyle Nov 22 #10
If the health of the political and legal systems are any indication, America is a failed state AverageJoe Nov 22 #11
stuff happened, Tickle Nov 22 #12
I agree with everything you wrote, except AverageJoe Nov 22 #17
Add in the possibility of expanding the SOTUS to 13 justices, and using the Democrats proposal kelly1mm Nov 22 #26
If they do that it will prove we don't know how to fight them JanMichael Nov 23 #49
I never liked the very public lobbying for ending the filibuster and increasing the number of Supreme Court kelly1mm Nov 23 #55
"I can't help but wonder what lies ahead for us in this rapidly shifting landscape." B.See Nov 23 #42
Trump is literally like the evil blob from the movie the 5th Element ITAL Nov 22 #18
there is no final decision-- I'm not sure what the fuss here is about LymphocyteLover Nov 22 #13
So if you are a rich white man who tried to overthrow our government because you were mad you lost kimbutgar Nov 22 #14
Yup, money does have it's privileges, republianmushroom Nov 22 #25
I guess we're weak on crime in this country. Emile Nov 22 #15
Good post! But I think you meant "palpable" not "palatable" SharonAnn Nov 22 #16
Yep angrychair Nov 22 #32
Let me put it to you this way, angrychair bucolic_frolic Nov 22 #19
What made this country special, that "no man is above the law" turned out to be an utter fantasy stumpysbear Nov 22 #22
Reading that McConnell was responsible for ousting Gaetz is odd. SleeplessinSoCal Nov 22 #23
"I'm not sure what the fuss here is about" J_William_Ryan Nov 22 #27
Yep, people still defend Dept Of Jokes uponit7771 Nov 22 #29
Mea Culpa to those who indicated that they thought Prairie_Seagull Nov 22 #30
I wanted to believe in this country, but I'm losing my ability. D23MIURG23 Nov 22 #33
Depending on certain people to stand up is fraught with potential for moniss Nov 23 #47
The more things change the more they stay the same. n/t D23MIURG23 Nov 23 #52
we are at the brick wall ... jimlup Nov 22 #34
And at every fucking turn, the cheerleaders mocked those who expressed doubt Orrex Nov 22 #35
And how many young men sit on Rikers Island, charged with petty offenses.... A HERETIC I AM Nov 22 #36
Am angry with you - wait, angry accompanying yours, not *at* YOU. UTUSN Nov 23 #38
I am frustrated too but it is within our power to fix this. totodeinhere Nov 23 #39
If the legal system backs off on Trump, it will be seen as . . . Aussie105 Nov 23 #43
It will get even worse and moniss Nov 23 #46
Innocent until proven broke. Legal system for the wealthy. Emile Nov 23 #48
And people keep saying Bettie Nov 23 #53
Glenn K on the 34 felons case, and three options before Merchan... RobertDevereaux Nov 23 #56
There is a super depressing guest column by Yale law prof BootinUp Nov 23 #57

Celerity

(46,533 posts)
40. Cost? Musk has exploded in net worth since he went full MAGAt.
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 02:08 AM
Nov 23

Real-time top 30 billionaires' net worth

Musk is just surging, Ellison now a firm number two.

Arnault is now worth 60B or so less than his high, and Google co-founders (Page and Brin) are falling atm (and will probably continue to do so as the US likely rips Google apart over the next year or so).

https://www.forbes.com/real-time-billionaires/#591aee713d78













Irish_Dem

(58,788 posts)
2. Yep rule of law and guardrails do not exist in the US.
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 01:08 PM
Nov 22

At least for the rich and powerful.

But god forbid you are a pregnant woman in need of emergency care.
You will be killed on the spot.

republianmushroom

(17,939 posts)
24. And those that said this case was going at a fast pace (from Texas),
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 04:27 PM
Nov 22

well it looks like that pace is going to last more than eight years. Total. The evident (?) long gone.

cilla4progress

(25,968 posts)
4. We are a nation in decline.
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 01:12 PM
Nov 22

Perhaps the loss of our "superpower" status will fare us well?

Africa rising.

Gonna be a whole lotta pain 1st, I'm afraid.

We missed our golden opportunity to put this thing away.

Celerity

(46,533 posts)
41. Africa rising.
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 02:19 AM
Nov 23




Obviously not African, but Guyana is exploding due to oil.

Guyana banks on future as a ‘new Qatar’ in high-stakes gamble over oil production

With newfound oil wealth reshaping the economy, can the country balance growth with sustainable development?

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/article/2024/jul/08/guyana-banks-on-future-as-a-latin-qatar-in-high-stakes-gamble-over-oil-production



MadameButterfly

(1,854 posts)
44. The solution to all this
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 04:46 AM
Nov 23

may look different than we think.

I fear how much pain necessary for people to get it. But maybe more productive than Dems keeping things tolerable and always at risk for a Republican takeover.

walkingman

(8,452 posts)
5. i agree and I don't see it changing. Our civil society is crumbling.
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 01:14 PM
Nov 22

The gap between the haves and the have nots will grow, but by demonizing scapegoats (immigrants, non-Christians, Democrats, “elites,” women, etc.) many are distracted from that sad fact.

angrychair

(9,810 posts)
6. Exactly their point
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 01:26 PM
Nov 22
by demonizing scapegoats (immigrants, non-Christians, Democrats, “elites,” women, etc.) many are distracted from that sad fact.


That was the plan all along.

RockRaven

(16,442 posts)
7. The legal system exists for the powerful to use the state's monopoly on violence
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 01:32 PM
Nov 22

to control the powerless. Not the other way around. Any anecdotes or incidences of that reverse case occurring are a bug, not a feature, of how the system is designed and run.

brush

(57,933 posts)
8. What did I miss? Did the NY judge decide not to sentence the orange criminal?
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 01:41 PM
Nov 22

That's the case where he was convicted of 34 felonies, and now no sentencing?

Guess we all knew it would happen if trump won. All the other cases will also cease to exist as the dictator and his cabal won't allow them to proceed...him being a sitting president now.

Boy, Garland really knew how to drag his feet just enough.
Jack Smith did all he could.

muriel_volestrangler

(102,618 posts)
28. He postponed sentencing indefinitely
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 05:55 PM
Nov 22
The sentencing in Donald Trump’s Manhattan criminal hush-money case has been postponed indefinitely while attorneys on both sides argue over its future given his recent election victory.

Judge Juan Merchan, who is overseeing Trump’s case, did not provide a new sentencing date in his one-page scheduling order on Friday.

Merchan said in his decision that Trump’s lawyers had to file their argument for dismissal by end of business on 2 December. Prosecutors have one week to respond.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/22/trump-hush-money-case-sentencing

If the judge doesn't pass a sentence before the inauguration, then it won't happen while Trump is president (Trump and all his acolytes would certainly ignore it). If he did somehow decide to sentence after all, before then, Trump will appeal, and that will run out the clock to the inauguration, when the Supreme Court will allow him to ignore it "as part of his presidential duties".

brush

(57,933 posts)
31. God! We've got a failed justice system in cases against the powerful and wealthy.
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 08:03 PM
Nov 22

The orange turd slithered away.

DallasNE

(7,578 posts)
37. Technically True
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 01:19 AM
Nov 23

Because Trump had filed a motion to dismiss following Trump's election victory the Judge had to have a hearing. He gave Trump until December 2nd to respond as to why the motion to dismiss should be granted and the prosecution until December 9th to respond as to why the motion should be denied. After that, he will make a decision to either set a date for sentencing (likely around December 22nd) or grant the motion to dismiss. I am not going to speculate which way he will rule but I will say this, the tone in the motion to dismiss was disrespectful of the Judge and that will not go over well.

magicarpet

(16,743 posts)
54. How/why Merrick Garland dragged his feet,...Servants of the Mafia State,...
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 09:26 AM
Nov 23

... Merrick Garland & Jamie Gorlick make the oligarchs legal problems poof go away.


Servants of the Mafia State
Merrick Garland, Jamie Gorelick, and the truth

Sarah Kendzior
Nov 16, 2023

I do not want to talk about Merrick Garland again. It feels like doing homework for a class my country already failed.

But it is necessary to do so. There is a shroud over the USA. It is woven of decades of deceit and impunity, but it is not interminable. There are threads that, when pulled, cause the shroud to unravel and Americans to see the light.

One of those threads is Merrick Garland’s rise to power, and the role of his mentor and lifelong best friend, Jamie Gorelick, in that rise.

I have told this story in pieces over the years. I am now putting the information in one article to make it easier to find. The story touches on so many atrocities that it is impossible for me to cover them all, and I encourage folks to pick up where I left off. The point of describing a crisis is to give people tools to fix it. This shadow network affects everyone, regardless of where you live or for whom you voted.

More at link....

https://sarahkendzior.substack.com/p/servants-of-the-mafia-state

AverageJoe

(2,317 posts)
11. If the health of the political and legal systems are any indication, America is a failed state
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 02:25 PM
Nov 22

We impeached him. Nothing happened.
He tried to overthrow the government. Nothing happened.
We impeached him again. Nothing happened.
He was convicted of 34 felonies. Nothing happened.
He was indicted multiple times. Nothing happened.
The SCOTUS said he was 100 percent above the law. Nothing happened.

Tickle

(3,119 posts)
12. stuff happened,
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 02:43 PM
Nov 22

Somehow, the accumulation of these seemingly inconsequential events has elevated his popularity, surpassing previous levels. Frankly, I find it perplexing. November 5th plays on a loop in my mind—I was anxious about the potential of losing a segment of the "blue wall," though not its entirety.

Now, with the speculation of Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito resigning, there’s the looming possibility that Trump could appoint two young, ideologically conservative justices. Even more unsettling is the thought of him expanding the Supreme Court altogether.

The implications are staggering, and I can't help but wonder what lies ahead for us in this rapidly shifting landscape.

AverageJoe

(2,317 posts)
17. I agree with everything you wrote, except
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 03:30 PM
Nov 22

Your use of the word “conservative.” That’s the one thing these people are not.

Far right? Yes.
Reactionary? Yes.
Fascist? Yes.
Traitorous? Yes.

Conservative? Hell no.

kelly1mm

(5,344 posts)
26. Add in the possibility of expanding the SOTUS to 13 justices, and using the Democrats proposal
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 04:50 PM
Nov 22

of doing just that to claim it is/was bipartisan.

PS the 13 justices argument is that it would align with the number of appellate court circuits.

kelly1mm

(5,344 posts)
55. I never liked the very public lobbying for ending the filibuster and increasing the number of Supreme Court
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 09:28 AM
Nov 23

justices by Democratic lawmakers these past years exactly for this reason. This was particular frustrating since there did not seem to be the willingness to do either of these things by the administration. The Republicans have hours of video of sitting members of the House and Senate calling the filibuster an 'undemocratic relic of slavery that need to be abolished' and supporting increasing the number of SCOTUS justices to 13 to match the number of circuit courts.

At minimum we would look like unprincipled political opportunist hypocrites even if we could stop them. Pretty hard to do a complete 180 of your position based on who won .....

B.See

(3,750 posts)
42. "I can't help but wonder what lies ahead for us in this rapidly shifting landscape."
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 03:23 AM
Nov 23

What lies ahead? Everything some have been warning of... and worse.

ITAL

(895 posts)
18. Trump is literally like the evil blob from the movie the 5th Element
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 03:36 PM
Nov 22

Everything that gets thrown at him makes him stronger. It's unreal.

kimbutgar

(23,458 posts)
14. So if you are a rich white man who tried to overthrow our government because you were mad you lost
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 03:17 PM
Nov 22

You have raped women and sold state secrets you get a pass?

Grrrr Merrick Garland !!!!

bucolic_frolic

(47,309 posts)
19. Let me put it to you this way, angrychair
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 03:51 PM
Nov 22

Old money, and age old power, potentates and prime ministers, and royal houses that have not held real power for centuries, are making a mockery of our democracy, its Constitution, its system of written law based on trust and good will, on power for the lowest as important as the highest, on courts and appeals, on elections and patriotism. The United States always faced opposition, in youth with no national bank or credit or scrip, in seeking loans from 500 year old institutions, and civil rights from natural law and Magna Carta, from limiting power of the head of state. There is a fascist and Machiavellian underbelly to politics. We flexed our military prowess but failed to make our political institutions robust, prosperity for the few became our mantra. We lived off the resources of a virgin continent but had no more wisdom than ancient Rome.

The only hope is the inevitable crash of the new government which thinks plurality a mandage and has not the brainpower of a coconut. Our fate lies with a handful of Republican Senators and representatives willing to save us by rejecting extremism. Not impossible, but a lot of work.

SleeplessinSoCal

(9,711 posts)
23. Reading that McConnell was responsible for ousting Gaetz is odd.
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 04:06 PM
Nov 22

It was McConnell who gave us the corrupt SCOTUS. So was his rejecting Gaetz just a personal grudge, with no concern for the health of the American legal system? Not to mention his cowardice over January 6th.

J_William_Ryan

(2,214 posts)
27. "I'm not sure what the fuss here is about"
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 05:27 PM
Nov 22

The ‘fuss’ is about the fact that Trump won’t be sentenced when he leaves office in 2029.

The fact that Trump will once again escape justice as the wealthy and powerful always do.

And the fact that not only will Trump not be punished for his crimes, but he’s also being rewarded for his corruption and crimes with an election victory and almost unlimited power to rule as despot and dictator for the next four years – if not longer.

That’s what the ‘fuss’ is all about.

Prairie_Seagull

(3,811 posts)
30. Mea Culpa to those who indicated that they thought
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 07:46 PM
Nov 22

TSF would never see a day in jail. I may have cursed your name (under my breath) and continued wishing our justice system will work.

It does if you have the money and the good sense to stay in the background. Wait or if you are a carnival barker.

"Ladies and Gentlemen..."

D23MIURG23

(3,092 posts)
33. I wanted to believe in this country, but I'm losing my ability.
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 09:18 PM
Nov 22

I've never thought as hard about leaving as I am now. It's not even about feeling unsafe here. I cut ties with a bunch of Trump supporter former friends earlier this year, because I found their views on society and government too disgusting to be around. I feel the same way about the country as a whole.

I believe in the stated ideals of our country but we've fallen so far short of them that they feel ridiculous, and I feel like an idiot for believing the powers that be would actually care about them. Those officials who claim to believe in our system of government are either averse to fighting for it or in to small a minority to get anything done, and our average voter doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

moniss

(6,052 posts)
47. Depending on certain people to stand up is fraught with potential for
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 06:19 AM
Nov 23

disappointment as we found out during Civil Rights and Vietnam. Some of the biggest frustrations during the '50's/'60's was getting the ones who had some power to do something when they said they were on our side. We needed them to act and not just tell us in meetings how they agreed with us.

jimlup

(8,008 posts)
34. we are at the brick wall ...
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 09:51 PM
Nov 22

there is NO JUSTICE if you are rich and privileged.

That is the situation we are in.

A HERETIC I AM

(24,599 posts)
36. And how many young men sit on Rikers Island, charged with petty offenses....
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 10:14 PM
Nov 22

some for YEARS without a trial, and the only reason they are there is because they are poor?

How many young men and women across this country sit in jails charged with or convicted of much less serious crimes that everyone knows Trumpy committed?

Greatest country in the world and all that bullshit.

totodeinhere

(13,337 posts)
39. I am frustrated too but it is within our power to fix this.
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 01:36 AM
Nov 23

We all know that politics is cyclical. Trump and the MAGA movement will flame out pretty rapidly I think. We should be focused now on taking back Congress in 2026. Then we need to have a robust primary and select a winning candidate in 2028 so we can take this country back. The MAGA crowd will do damage during the next 4 years but it can be undone once we get back in power.

Aussie105

(6,367 posts)
43. If the legal system backs off on Trump, it will be seen as . . .
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 03:38 AM
Nov 23

if the original charges were fabricated and a vindictive effort the 'get' Trump.

MAGAts will rejoice and proclaim that Trump is above the law.

Dems will go WTF!?!?

Trump will have destroyed both the government and the legal system.

By the time MAGAts realize they are in deep doo-doo along with Democrats - because Trump just doesn't care - it will be too late for them to change their vote.

moniss

(6,052 posts)
46. It will get even worse and
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 06:10 AM
Nov 23

the uneven application of law is about to really expand. The favoritism and harassment is going to get cranked to levels most people haven't seen before. But those of us who lived through the '50's/'60's know that times get bad and application of law or "fair treatment" becomes way less about facts and way more about who you are and who you know to an even much larger degree than usual.

Bettie

(17,272 posts)
53. And people keep saying
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 08:37 AM
Nov 23

"the courts will hold"....no, they won't.

They belong to the oligarchs and the oligarchs want the country torn to shreds so they can have ALL the money instead of it having to go through the hands of the unwashed masses before they get it.

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