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artemisia1

(1,898 posts)
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 04:31 PM Nov 2024

I believe it is time for a strong return to the Democratic Party's roots as a party that champions labor and the common

person. Not faulting the recent campaign or any of our candidates, but I think we need to reprioritize. Thoughts?

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I believe it is time for a strong return to the Democratic Party's roots as a party that champions labor and the common (Original Post) artemisia1 Nov 2024 OP
Yes, I believe that would help some. Elessar Zappa Nov 2024 #1
Good idea. Initech Nov 2024 #2
Yes, their investment in talk radio, and later social media, has paid rich dividends for them and impoverished us. /nt artemisia1 Nov 2024 #3
Yeah that's where democrats need to start. Initech Nov 2024 #6
Yes, more truth needs to be infused into political narratives on a daily basis, everywhere. Beartracks Nov 2024 #17
The Soros Foundation has made a good start by purchasing 200 over radio stations, in 40 different markets across the US, dlk Nov 2024 #34
Would be great to bring back Air America, La Coliniere Nov 2024 #59
I don't care what some people said I Loved Air America! electric_blue68 Nov 2024 #66
Oh, I forgot about this reccent good news. electric_blue68 Nov 2024 #67
This is very accurate, but Cosmocat Nov 2024 #21
I hope we don't follow suit with the anger and outrage - not what I want. walkingman Nov 2024 #53
I thonk we could mix the longer form nuanced discussionns, with some, oh, qukcker, pithy material. electric_blue68 Nov 2024 #68
I think Dems should make it a goal Farmer-Rick Nov 2024 #4
Our next candidates need to say this. /nt artemisia1 Nov 2024 #8
Republican voters love deregulation. yardwork Nov 2024 #92
I'm pretty sick of...... BBbats Nov 2024 #5
Isn't it an axiom that if voters have a choice between a Republican and a Democrat... Beartracks Nov 2024 #18
Where was Bernie when W was stealing the 2000 election? GoreWon2000 Nov 2024 #49
The Democratic Party initially supported expansive presidential power and the interests of slave states. Towlie Nov 2024 #7
Hmm, reich wingers love to throw out this little gem from the past. Lunabell Nov 2024 #12
They like to skip the part where those Southern Democrats switched to being Southern Republicans In It to Win It Nov 2024 #107
No. Our post-Bellum roots. New Deal and all that... /nt artemisia1 Nov 2024 #48
It depends on how deep you dig Farmer-Rick Nov 2024 #57
And they'd have gotten more ballustic if FDR's Second Economic Bill of Rights had managed to be passed. electric_blue68 Nov 2024 #69
Southern Dems vs. northern Dems at that time, I think. wnylib Nov 2024 #82
What I don't get is how we always get beaten when EllieBC Nov 2024 #9
Because They edhopper Nov 2024 #10
The media is pro repug GoreWon2000 Nov 2024 #45
Republicans think otherwise Ndp5 Nov 2024 #61
There's no better example of the pro repug media than campaign 2000 GoreWon2000 Nov 2024 #73
Perhaps we should try to get the unaffiliated (Independent) voters into our fold? kentuck Nov 2024 #11
nope. our message, our platform, our accomplishment, all good. we just let them define us. mopinko Nov 2024 #13
How did the Biden administration SocialDemocrat61 Nov 2024 #14
The answer lies ReRe Nov 2024 #22
I need a specific answer here too. Biden/Harris very active with unions, Democratic policies always betsuni Nov 2024 #30
Yes, I don't get it... Dem4life1970 Nov 2024 #44
It's a RW corporate media talking point SocialDemocrat61 Nov 2024 #51
Well, some of us are sycophants who embrace our cult leader Bill Maher. Abolishinist Nov 2024 #77
Glad you're admitting the truth! SocialDemocrat61 Nov 2024 #80
When they spent time telling people that the economy was great because the stock market was up EdmondDantes_ Nov 2024 #108
I asked for specifics SocialDemocrat61 Nov 2024 #112
I've been arguing the same. I can lay out all policies and how they prioritize labor In It to Win It Nov 2024 #109
People don't want to hear the truth SocialDemocrat61 Nov 2024 #113
Is this some sort of code? Keepthesoulalive Nov 2024 #15
It is... Blue_Tires Nov 2024 #19
Mexico has a woman president delisen Nov 2024 #43
I didn't know we were talking about Mexico Blue_Tires Nov 2024 #71
I'm having the same thoughts. onecaliberal Nov 2024 #76
Oh please. Abolishinist Nov 2024 #81
How do you explain the lower turnout for Harris then? Blue_Tires Nov 2024 #111
The notion that the Democratic Party doesn't B.See Nov 2024 #84
I beg your pardon Keepthesoulalive Nov 2024 #96
If you read my post B.See Nov 2024 #99
Sorry some things get lost in translation and posts Keepthesoulalive Nov 2024 #100
There is a thinly hidden agenda Keepthesoulalive Nov 2024 #101
It's code for hate-driven micromanagement of public bathrooms and womens' health John Shaft Nov 2024 #85
For the last time, we just ran that campaign Blue_Tires Nov 2024 #16
They have already been doing that. Biden is the most pro labor in terms of what he has accomplished JI7 Nov 2024 #20
I feel a war against the 1% might be very effective. KS Toronado Nov 2024 #23
They don't care Keepthesoulalive Nov 2024 #25
Well we have never approached it as a poor vs ultra rich platform KS Toronado Nov 2024 #31
They don't see themselves as poor. Keepthesoulalive Nov 2024 #55
That's what we need to point out KS Toronado Nov 2024 #63
You can expend your energy trying to convince them Keepthesoulalive Nov 2024 #64
I believe it's time for voters to get their news in places other than social media. Vinca Nov 2024 #24
I believe it is time you pay attention to what democrats are doing now to champion labor and the common emulatorloo Nov 2024 #26
Care to elaborate? I think all the rules needed are in place now. Stop making more random rules ecstatic Nov 2024 #27
FDR 2nd Bill of Rights. U S Grant had some great ideas also. Blue Full Moon Nov 2024 #28
Joe on the picket line wasn't standing with labor WhiteTara Nov 2024 #29
How do you think we aren't that now? Happy Hoosier Nov 2024 #32
Post removed Post removed Nov 2024 #38
Perhaps you should talk to the republicans because Keepthesoulalive Nov 2024 #41
Wow. Happy Hoosier Nov 2024 #56
We never stopped. mzmolly Nov 2024 #33
We had the most labor friendly president and candidate for president and VP in history. doc03 Nov 2024 #35
Please show me where and when Pres Biden and VP Harris mcar Nov 2024 #36
100%. They should nominate the most pro-union administration ever. Self Esteem Nov 2024 #37
I think that's what many tmp voters sought. elleng Nov 2024 #39
They sought their hate and ignorance Keepthesoulalive Nov 2024 #42
the american people have made it pretty clear they would prefer a fascist dictator in office if they think Takket Nov 2024 #40
Its always been that JustAnotherGen Nov 2024 #46
2024 was about GoreWon2000 Nov 2024 #47
I believe my state democratic party stillcool Nov 2024 #50
Joe did that. He stood proudly with unions. Joinfortmill Nov 2024 #52
Absolutely n/t Cirsium Nov 2024 #54
I am so sick of these excuses for grown ass people who should know better Dem4life1234 Nov 2024 #58
Fix two things Ndp5 Nov 2024 #60
We already prioritize them. W_HAMILTON Nov 2024 #62
I think we know the answer Keepthesoulalive Nov 2024 #65
I don't.Know what more ,Harris and could have done..I believe the media Tribetime Nov 2024 #70
It's mostly a matter of emphasis and repetition--- Jack Valentino Nov 2024 #72
Never happen as long as people closer to 75 than 50 are in charge Rob H. Nov 2024 #74
It would ForgedCrank Nov 2024 #75
What fringe issues ? Keepthesoulalive Nov 2024 #78
I agree larwdem Nov 2024 #79
Again, what fringe issues? Keepthesoulalive Nov 2024 #83
Didn't you see the post? OldBaldy1701E Nov 2024 #86
You've made ForgedCrank Nov 2024 #90
The day the term 'those people', in reference to anyone in our own party, becomes acceptable discourse... OldBaldy1701E Nov 2024 #97
Where did ForgedCrank Nov 2024 #98
I stand corrected. You did not say 'those people'. OldBaldy1701E Nov 2024 #104
No, I won't ForgedCrank Nov 2024 #106
As you wish. OldBaldy1701E Nov 2024 #114
Oh others. Keepthesoulalive Nov 2024 #91
What fringe culture? What abrasive ideals? What contentious ideals? What divisive subjects? Solly Mack Nov 2024 #88
Expanding Medicare for all and increasing the minimum wage to $20/hr is a good start NNguyenMD Nov 2024 #87
+1 leftstreet Nov 2024 #94
Yes. Many Dems already understand that: Frontline Democrats Won With Progressive Populist Messages Passages Nov 2024 #89
When have we not championed what the OP said? Jit423 Nov 2024 #93
people can't be bothered to promote the 'championing' that we do everyday as a party bigtree Nov 2024 #95
Agreed.............. Lovie777 Nov 2024 #103
Agreed and while I writing oldmanlynn Nov 2024 #102
Harris didn't talk about queer people at all hardly. white_wolf Nov 2024 #105
It looks to me that Hate, Lies, and stupidity are what the electorate want. Fish700 Nov 2024 #110

Elessar Zappa

(16,385 posts)
1. Yes, I believe that would help some.
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 04:37 PM
Nov 2024

But I also stress that we need a large, well-funded internet/media ecosystem comparable to what the right has. We need armies of trolls and bots, liberal billionaire funding, etc.

Initech

(109,033 posts)
2. Good idea.
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 04:37 PM
Nov 2024

But we need to start with a better social media presence. We're getting destroyed on social media and it showed, in more ways than one during the election. Republicans have a near monopoly on political podcasts and shows, not to mention cable news and social media. It's time to focus on that first, then we can start worrying about demographics.

artemisia1

(1,898 posts)
3. Yes, their investment in talk radio, and later social media, has paid rich dividends for them and impoverished us. /nt
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 04:39 PM
Nov 2024

Initech

(109,033 posts)
6. Yeah that's where democrats need to start.
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 04:45 PM
Nov 2024

We've got millionaires and billionaires on our side, why can't we fund radio, TV, and social media presences? Instead we pour it into advertising which nobody pays attention to anymore. We've got to combat the Alex Joneses and Joe Rogans and RFK Jrs of the world in order to make an impact. Hey, I'd gladly host a show!

Beartracks

(14,624 posts)
17. Yes, more truth needs to be infused into political narratives on a daily basis, everywhere.
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 05:47 PM
Nov 2024

dlk

(13,307 posts)
34. The Soros Foundation has made a good start by purchasing 200 over radio stations, in 40 different markets across the US,
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 06:30 PM
Nov 2024

Including some in Texas. The purchase, from Audacy, Inc., was recently approved by the FCC. Democrats need to reclaim the airwaves and the internet. We've ceded too much ground to right-wing extremists and billionaires with an antidemocratic agenda.

La Coliniere

(1,969 posts)
59. Would be great to bring back Air America,
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 08:34 PM
Nov 2024

or something close to it, on all those 200 stations.

Cosmocat

(15,456 posts)
21. This is very accurate, but
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 05:54 PM
Nov 2024

This goes back decades, w am radio.

The problem is that they traffic in anger, division and angst. They also speak in very simple, black and white terms.

People can say they don't like these things, but it has an incredible appeal to a lot of people.

This isn't what Ds do, they talk more thoughtfully and focus on policy and solving problems.

We dig that, but now more than ever, most people don't want that. They want to be agitated and outraged.

electric_blue68

(27,104 posts)
68. I thonk we could mix the longer form nuanced discussionns, with some, oh, qukcker, pithy material.
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 10:29 PM
Nov 2024

A few pithy slogans also to quickly get some messages across.

Farmer-Rick

(12,757 posts)
4. I think Dems should make it a goal
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 04:39 PM
Nov 2024

To get rid of every single neoliberal economic action taken by the US. From free trade agreements to deregulation, these policies taken by our government since Raygun need to go way. They are why the working class is not voting for Dems.

yardwork

(69,513 posts)
92. Republican voters love deregulation.
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 10:55 AM
Nov 2024

Deregulation and low taxes are the Republican platform.

BBbats

(312 posts)
5. I'm pretty sick of......
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 04:45 PM
Nov 2024

I'm pretty sick of the Dems being Republican Lite.
I realize that it's wealthy people who run politics in this country but it would be nice to see a truly liberal Democratic Party.
Ever since Reagan the D's seem to always want to compromise & "reach across the aisle". The R's sure as Hell don't. Nor or they going to.
I wanna see more Jasmine Crocketts& AOC & Bernie Sanders.

Beartracks

(14,624 posts)
18. Isn't it an axiom that if voters have a choice between a Republican and a Democrat...
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 05:49 PM
Nov 2024

... that acts like a Republican, they will always elect the Republican.

==================

Towlie

(5,580 posts)
7. The Democratic Party initially supported expansive presidential power and the interests of slave states.
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 04:46 PM
Nov 2024

[The Democratic Party] initially supported expansive presidential power, the interests of slave states, agrarianism, and geographical expansionism, while opposing a national bank and high tariffs.

These are the party's roots. Is this what you want to return to?

In It to Win It

(12,700 posts)
107. They like to skip the part where those Southern Democrats switched to being Southern Republicans
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 11:46 PM
Nov 2024

Farmer-Rick

(12,757 posts)
57. It depends on how deep you dig
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 08:28 PM
Nov 2024

If you dig down into 100 years ago, yeah Dems were much like the Republicans are today.

But if you stop digging at 88 years ago, FDR's new deal was the Democrats' most liberal policy that the Republicans are trying to wipe out even today.

electric_blue68

(27,104 posts)
69. And they'd have gotten more ballustic if FDR's Second Economic Bill of Rights had managed to be passed.
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 10:33 PM
Nov 2024

It would have been an uphill battle for sure, but dang!

wnylib

(26,315 posts)
82. Southern Dems vs. northern Dems at that time, I think.
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 02:21 AM
Nov 2024

In my lifetime, since the 1950s, the Democratic Party was the party of the working class.

If you want to bring up party history, Lincoln and the Republicans of the 19th century opposed slavery, but they have been a racist party for decades.

EllieBC

(3,639 posts)
9. What I don't get is how we always get beaten when
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 04:47 PM
Nov 2024

we have plenty of well off donors. Why don’t we have the same media presence?

 

GoreWon2000

(1,461 posts)
45. The media is pro repug
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 07:32 PM
Nov 2024

The media sees the repugs as championing the powerbase of our country that's existed since before our country was a country. The media want's to cast its lot with the powerbase. This was glaringly obvious in 2000 when they trashed Al Gore while they swooned over W. They then sided with W to not count all of the Florida votes. The dems have done nothing to address this.

Ndp5

(100 posts)
61. Republicans think otherwise
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 08:43 PM
Nov 2024

And some of them now refuse to engage with mainstream media outlets as a result. Or, if they do engage, they’ll offer borderline verbally abusive replies to play to their base’s antipathy to the press.

I don’t think Democrats should follow Republicans in trashing the broader press. If you take issue with a certain outlet’s coverage, that’s something else.

But a public that has lost all trust in objective news is a public that’s easy to manipulate. As we saw in the uninformed voters who backed Trump in this election and couldn’t answer simple current events questions correctly.

 

GoreWon2000

(1,461 posts)
73. There's no better example of the pro repug media than campaign 2000
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 12:47 AM
Nov 2024

In 2000 according to the media, Al Gore couldn't do anything right and W couldn't do anything wrong. The pro repug media let W lie throught the entire campaign and our country paid the price for it. The Washington Post and the NYTimes were the ringleaders. The only record of it can be found in the archives of the Daily Howler blog at www.dailyhowler.com. The repugs don't like facts. There are ample facts to prove that the corporate media is pro repug.

kentuck

(115,492 posts)
11. Perhaps we should try to get the unaffiliated (Independent) voters into our fold?
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 04:58 PM
Nov 2024

And increase our numbers?

Also, we need to understand that not all issues are equal in the public mind. We need to prioritize the issues that we wish to promote with the majority of voters.

mopinko

(73,832 posts)
13. nope. our message, our platform, our accomplishment, all good. we just let them define us.
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 05:12 PM
Nov 2024

the ppl who voted against us were the most ill informed in my lifetime.

it’s not us. they were fed nothing but bullshit. and partly it’s the voters who swallow whatever they’re fed. but boodles of money is being spent pumping out this poison.
citizens united doomed us to this.

SocialDemocrat61

(7,882 posts)
14. How did the Biden administration
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 05:30 PM
Nov 2024

and Harris campaign not prioritize labor and common person? Please be specific.

betsuni

(29,201 posts)
30. I need a specific answer here too. Biden/Harris very active with unions, Democratic policies always
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 06:22 PM
Nov 2024

prioritize labor and working/middle class. Are people unfamiliar with any Democratic policy or voting history (all those Democratic votes for the Trump tax cuts, repealing ACA -- all none of them?) There is no both sides the same just because the remnants of a populist "revolution" keep repeating it, the Democratic base knows this.

Dem4life1970

(1,056 posts)
44. Yes, I don't get it...
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 07:30 PM
Nov 2024

...the only POTUS IN U.S. HISTORY who walked a picket line was not enough?

The legislative agenda that was pro-Union, and pro-Middle class?

What more can we do?

Trump won with a razor-thin margin in a global climate that was favorable to "outsiders" and we have to blow up the Democratic party?

I just don't get it...I love Bernie, I love AOC, and Harris had the biggest broadest coalition that I had seen in my lifetime (from AOC to Dick Cheney), but somehow she lost....

Yes, she wasn't pro Labor that's why she lost. Really? That's the takeaway? Make it make sense.

SocialDemocrat61

(7,882 posts)
51. It's a RW corporate media talking point
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 07:55 PM
Nov 2024

to obscure that the real reason was sexism and racism. It is a shame that some here are buying into it.

Abolishinist

(3,014 posts)
77. Well, some of us are sycophants who embrace our cult leader Bill Maher.
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 01:51 AM
Nov 2024

Please cut us a break, at least we voted for Kamala!

EdmondDantes_

(1,991 posts)
108. When they spent time telling people that the economy was great because the stock market was up
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 11:56 PM
Nov 2024

While inflation was also drastically up. The stock market doesn't directly improve the average person's standard of living. Yeah my retirement fund did well, but I have less money to spend. And sure I live beneath my means, but I also don't have kids and so lots of the cost of inflation is mitigated.

Also frankly even Democratic administrations haven't done nearly enough in terms of trying to reverse decades of increasing income inequality. Sure better than Republicans, but not enough structurally to really make changes.

In It to Win It

(12,700 posts)
109. I've been arguing the same. I can lay out all policies and how they prioritize labor
Tue Nov 26, 2024, 12:01 AM
Nov 2024

The common feedback I've been getting is the "messaging" wasn't there...

SocialDemocrat61

(7,882 posts)
113. People don't want to hear the truth
Tue Nov 26, 2024, 08:21 AM
Nov 2024

They cling to certain beliefs the way a child clings to belief in Santa Claus

Keepthesoulalive

(2,349 posts)
15. Is this some sort of code?
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 05:33 PM
Nov 2024

The democrats have championed middle class issues ,schools, roads, jobs, transportation and so many other bread and butter issues. The republicans talk about trans bathrooms and woke ideology.
Do you want women’s and minority issues to go away. It will not change anything, we must find a way to counter the lies . Trump has not done anything for the working class other than pander to their phobias and racism. The economic problems we face belongs to the republicans,l let’s put it there.

 

Blue_Tires

(57,596 posts)
19. It is...
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 05:49 PM
Nov 2024

We keep tip-toeing around the fact that American voters would have been much more accepting of Kamala's message if it had only come from a man, specifically a white man.

Ironically, if this ticket was "Walz/Harris" instead, Donnie certainly loses in a landslide...

delisen

(7,414 posts)
43. Mexico has a woman president
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 07:29 PM
Nov 2024

Plus legal abortion . Plus parity for women. Why are you trying to to roll back equality for women in our country?
.Mexican men voted for women in vast numbers . They are moving ahead on climate and ecology and building their society while we are focused onbyilding an economy that is designed to serve the few and impoverish the rest of us
The men won.t vote for woman argument is false and dangerous .

 

Blue_Tires

(57,596 posts)
71. I didn't know we were talking about Mexico
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 11:41 PM
Nov 2024

I was referring to the United States.

And the "men won't vote for a woman" argument needs to be discussed because TWICE in eight years, voters have chosen the lowest of the lowest worst qualified white man over the best qualified woman.

I'm not trying to roll back anything, I'm just trying to avoid being betrayed again by folks I thought were allies.

Abolishinist

(3,014 posts)
81. Oh please.
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 02:16 AM
Nov 2024

Do you really believe this?

Ironically, if this ticket was "Walz/Harris" instead, Donnie certainly loses in a landslide...

B.See

(8,668 posts)
84. The notion that the Democratic Party doesn't
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 06:10 AM
Nov 2024

champion labor and the common man is, imo, delusional at best.

The MAGA party, that has done everything they can to HURT labour and the common man is their champion? Right. What a... joke.

Stop buying into Reich wing talking points.

B.See

(8,668 posts)
99. If you read my post
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 05:15 PM
Nov 2024

you'll understand that I was agreeing with you.

It was not your post that I was rebutting.

Keepthesoulalive

(2,349 posts)
101. There is a thinly hidden agenda
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 05:43 PM
Nov 2024

The fringe issues should not be discussed. I sometimes wonder perhaps they don’t like the republican stink on them but they agree with some of the basic principles of the party.

 

John Shaft

(808 posts)
85. It's code for hate-driven micromanagement of public bathrooms and womens' health
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 06:24 AM
Nov 2024

oh, and not seeing same sex or mixed race couples on tv anymore. Oh and the Blacks, the Browns, the Jews.

That's literally what it means.

All of it is driven by hate.

 

Blue_Tires

(57,596 posts)
16. For the last time, we just ran that campaign
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 05:44 PM
Nov 2024

and it didn't win... Harris couldn't even get an endorsement from the fucking Teamsters(!) after everything Biden and Harris did for them.

I'm going to keep saying it until it gets through everybody's skull -- The "issues" and "messaging" did NOT decide this race, since Donnie was a thousand times worse on both.

Don't talk to me about "working class" and "fighting for the little guy" when those same idiots voted for an inherited billionaire oligarch criminal who literally shits on a golden toilet, has never done a real day of work in his life and his biggest selling point was making the wealthiest man on the planet (also inherited) part of his administration.

JI7

(93,808 posts)
20. They have already been doing that. Biden is the most pro labor in terms of what he has accomplished
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 05:53 PM
Nov 2024

And why did Jon Tester lose if it's about championing labor and there common person ?

KS Toronado

(23,745 posts)
23. I feel a war against the 1% might be very effective.
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 06:06 PM
Nov 2024

Show people all the nice things they would have with a fairer tax code, higher wages, free college, cheaper
medical care, increased SS benefits, and no national debt.

Keepthesoulalive

(2,349 posts)
25. They don't care
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 06:13 PM
Nov 2024

Why do people in red states constantly vote against candidates that would improve their lives?
Identity politics. Robert Byrd helped the people of West Virginia, he brought home the bacon.
Now they consistently vote republican and their poverty deepens but they own the libs.

Keepthesoulalive

(2,349 posts)
55. They don't see themselves as poor.
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 08:13 PM
Nov 2024

They see themselves as white Christian folk who are being taken advantage of by everyone. If only you would stop catering to all these people who are not like me America would be great and I wouldn’t have all these problems.

KS Toronado

(23,745 posts)
63. That's what we need to point out
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 09:06 PM
Nov 2024

they are not being taken advantage of by everyone only the mega rich. They could not explain how
people poorer than themselves are taking advantage of them.

Keepthesoulalive

(2,349 posts)
64. You can expend your energy trying to convince them
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 09:12 PM
Nov 2024

The man is holding them back. That is averse to their self image. They want to play strong man and victim at the same time. You knock yourself out , I’ve got better things to do than talk to a West Virginia mountain.

emulatorloo

(46,155 posts)
26. I believe it is time you pay attention to what democrats are doing now to champion labor and the common
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 06:14 PM
Nov 2024

person rather than buying into the bullshit propaganda coming from MAGA’s and the MAGA loving media.

Biden is one of the most pro-labor and pro-working class presidents we’ve ever had. Harris would have continued that.

Stop listening to trump propaganda that lies about democrats. Also ignore fake ”leftists” ‘influencers’ on the internet who also lie about democrats and who helped re-elect Trump.

ecstatic

(35,125 posts)
27. Care to elaborate? I think all the rules needed are in place now. Stop making more random rules
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 06:21 PM
Nov 2024

because it ends up having unintended consequences.

WhiteTara

(31,269 posts)
29. Joe on the picket line wasn't standing with labor
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 06:21 PM
Nov 2024

and the common "man"? No, I don't think that's the ticket. Been there, done that.

Happy Hoosier

(9,581 posts)
32. How do you think we aren't that now?
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 06:24 PM
Nov 2024

What specific policies or positions do you think we should advocate for that we currently do not?

Response to Happy Hoosier (Reply #32)

Keepthesoulalive

(2,349 posts)
41. Perhaps you should talk to the republicans because
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 07:19 PM
Nov 2024

They have blocked every change to help the middle class, women can’t afford childcare but they can’t have family planning, try to forgive student loans , nope and try to afford college tuition the fat cats get their pound of flesh in interest, protect the environment drill baby drill. Stop buying the bullshit because we never elect enough democrats to get things done. The problem is an ignorant electorate
And a complicit media.

Happy Hoosier

(9,581 posts)
56. Wow.
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 08:23 PM
Nov 2024

Toy really think that the ACA hasn’t help anyone? You don’t think $25,000 would help people with their down payment? You don’t think Biden’s moves on prescription drugs helped people? Im at a loss for words…

Also, you didn’t propose a single policy!

And “they?” You know this is a Democratic site, right?

doc03

(39,135 posts)
35. We had the most labor friendly president and candidate for president and VP in history.
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 06:35 PM
Nov 2024

What we need is to have 1/10 the influence in the media as the Republicans. We should run on class warfare.

mcar

(46,225 posts)
36. Please show me where and when Pres Biden and VP Harris
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 06:37 PM
Nov 2024

haven't supported labor and the common person?

 

Self Esteem

(2,248 posts)
37. 100%. They should nominate the most pro-union administration ever.
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 06:49 PM
Nov 2024

One that fights for pensions and walks picket lines with workers. They should nominate someone who passes the most consequential infrastructure bill and push to create more manufacturing jobs in four years than the last three presidents combined.

Maybe pass something like the IRA that invests in workers.

Oh wait. They did.

Keepthesoulalive

(2,349 posts)
42. They sought their hate and ignorance
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 07:21 PM
Nov 2024

They keep electing people who will not help them. Repeal Obamacare oops you mean the affordable care act.

Takket

(23,761 posts)
40. the american people have made it pretty clear they would prefer a fascist dictator in office if they think
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 07:16 PM
Nov 2024

that person will put a few more dollars a week in their pocket.

So. Yeah. I agree.

 

GoreWon2000

(1,461 posts)
47. 2024 was about
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 07:38 PM
Nov 2024

maintaining the wealthy, white, anglo-saxon, male, christian patriarchy that has controlled our country since before it was a country. People don't seem to care how miserable their own lives will now be because of this vote. I'm not sure how bad it has to get before people wake up. It may well be too late for that. I'm also not sure how we combat this either.

stillcool

(34,407 posts)
50. I believe my state democratic party
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 07:49 PM
Nov 2024

is the only part of government that will be there to protect and defend. I have to find some ways to get more involved. Went to a townhall recently, and the depth and breadth of knowledge was amazing, as well as the lesson in what government does. I wish more people could step out of their comfort zone and just show up.

Joinfortmill

(21,467 posts)
52. Joe did that. He stood proudly with unions.
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 07:59 PM
Nov 2024

I'm 75 and I have never known a President who has done so much and been so diminished. WTH people?

Dem4life1234

(2,533 posts)
58. I am so sick of these excuses for grown ass people who should know better
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 08:30 PM
Nov 2024

If somehow black people, in general, knew better than to vote for a lying useless piece of shit, what is everyone else's damn excuse? Most working class people of color supported the Dems. So that puts away the Dems are Elite crap. How do we convince the racists who do not? They have made up their minds. They simply want to punish the people they hate because if this country were racially homogenous like Norway, you best believe those assholes would vote for the Left party.


They are grown people who should know better. It's not like the man is brand new, we have seen that he is immoral and incompetent, but yet idiots still voted for his ass, and some lazy people didn't bother to vote at all.

What is the excuse? How blatant does the Dem party have to be to get it through people's thick fucking heads? Furthermore, the mainstream media isn't helping but kissing his ass. So what is the ranting on the Dems about? What can Dems do? They have made it clear enough. These are grown ass people who should know better.

Ndp5

(100 posts)
60. Fix two things
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 08:34 PM
Nov 2024

1. Billionaires putting their thumbs on the scale, through outsized election spending and ownership of nationally important media outlets (both should be restricted or banned)

2. Social media mis- and disinformation

Strongly disagree that organized labor is the way to reinvigorate Dems’ electoral prospects. A very small portion of the population is now in a union, so a) you’re just not going to win many votes that way.

And b) many of us regard organized labor with distrust because its agenda has been so anti gig and freelance worker.

Moreover, c) organized labor is just another interest group and one that has been ineffective at staunching the tide of inequality over recent decades. And Dems aligning themselves with that interest group is nothing new. Many people will take a recommitment to organized labor as same old, same old from Dems.

Dems should be pro-worker, not blindly beholden to organized labor. The party needs to think bigger and more creatively than that.

W_HAMILTON

(10,406 posts)
62. We already prioritize them.
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 08:47 PM
Nov 2024

If not them, exactly who the hell is it that you think we prioritize?

Tribetime

(7,145 posts)
70. I don't.Know what more ,Harris and could have done..I believe the media
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 10:39 PM
Nov 2024

Screwed her over by asking her to be perfect while drump just had to make a poo poo in his diaper and he was superior

Jack Valentino

(5,184 posts)
72. It's mostly a matter of emphasis and repetition---
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 12:26 AM
Nov 2024

most Democrats have supported labor all along,
but we don't talk about it enough...

In that sense, we need to be more like Republicans--
SAY our message and KEEP ON SAYING IT
until the ideas finally leak through to the masses...

Rob H.

(5,882 posts)
74. Never happen as long as people closer to 75 than 50 are in charge
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 12:52 AM
Nov 2024

Edit: nor will it happen as long as the answer to defeat by Republicans is to move further to the right.

ForgedCrank

(3,118 posts)
75. It would
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 12:57 AM
Nov 2024

help immensely if we stopped embracing fringe culture as part of this. I see no reason to base a political ideology on highly abrasive ideals. And no, i'm not saying we shouldn't support some or most of these contentious ideals, but they should remain in the fringe and not be the mainstream Democratic Party identity. This has cost us a lot of votes. Almost all voters fall into the middle class and traditional arena. That is where the votes are.
If we want to win, we are going to have to make some changes and back away somewhat from the most divisive subjects. It will most certainly piss off some people, but it is really the only way moving forward.

larwdem

(907 posts)
79. I agree
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 02:05 AM
Nov 2024

It's hard to tiptoe around this but we need to support them in the background. Not up front.
(I KNOW GO AHEAD AND HATE ME!)

OldBaldy1701E

(11,374 posts)
86. Didn't you see the post?
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 07:06 AM
Nov 2024

'Them'! You know... those... people. Those... fringe people who are fringe and not mainstream people.

(Face it, they won't come right out and say it, but you know who they are talking about.)

ForgedCrank

(3,118 posts)
90. You've made
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 09:58 AM
Nov 2024

my point. Pick whatever topic has you ready to verbally attack me and add it to the list. And this is why I am saying that these positions are abrasive and hurt us when they are made to be primary issues. This type of reaction is exactly what I'm referring to.

OldBaldy1701E

(11,374 posts)
97. The day the term 'those people', in reference to anyone in our own party, becomes acceptable discourse...
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 01:52 PM
Nov 2024

Is the day I stop being a Democrat. Let's hope it will never come to that.

ForgedCrank

(3,118 posts)
98. Where did
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 02:06 PM
Nov 2024

I ever use the term "those people" ? This appears to be something you came up.
We also need to maybe not let our imaginations come up with a reason to be continually angry, that would help a lot. It may reduce the incidents of people in our own party getting attacked whenever they try to inject some simple logic into an issue.
Or I suppose we could just pick the most divisive topics imaginable and make that the face of our platform permanently. And let's also call anyone who doesn't agree with every single one of those things without question, a Nazi. That always helps win elections.

OldBaldy1701E

(11,374 posts)
104. I stand corrected. You did not say 'those people'.
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 11:25 PM
Nov 2024

You said 'some people' but that was in reference to something else.

So, please enlighten us on exactly which 'fringe culture' you are referring to? Because I can only think of one 'culture' that has traditionally been referred to as 'fringe'. If I am mistaken, please let me know and I will defer to your expertise. I am also curious which 'divisive' topics you were referring to as well. Why on't you just say the topics you are talking about?

I do not need my imagination to be angry at the betrayal and disgust I am feeling these days. Perhaps you were not aware, but the minions of the president elect have stated that anyone like myself is in danger of being designated 'undesirable' and being tossed out of the country. I have been having issues with my health and my ability to survive. These things are most certainly not going to get any easier under the upcoming regime. I have paid into social Security since i was twelve years old. I will see none of it myself because the current administration did not care. The upcoming one is gong to try to gut the entire thing. So, you will forgive me if I am not the most chill person at the moment.

ForgedCrank

(3,118 posts)
106. No, I won't
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 11:44 PM
Nov 2024

because you are attempting to draw me into a fight where you get the opportunity to attempt to belittle or shame me if I happen to disagree with you on even one subject. And that is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm a pretty solid Democratic voter, and you are cocked and locked ready to skirmish with an ally over an imagined disagreement. A lot of people will turn the other direction when you do that and proceed to pull the lever for someone who ISN'T attacking them. That's where our votes went, well, a lot of them anyway.
My point was spoken in general terms. Pick whatever topic you consider divisive or fringe and go with it, there are dozens of them. The point remains the same. There are also plenty of issues that may not be fringe, but are still highly divisive. If we want to win elections, we cannot make these things our primary identity. You don't have to like it, but if you piss off enough people, you will lose elections. It's a very fundamental assessment and undeniable fact. But if you wish to stand strictly on principle by demanding absolute 100% compliance from everyone on every subject, then so be it. But the end result will be that our party will die on that hill, and our opponents will be the victor every time.

OldBaldy1701E

(11,374 posts)
114. As you wish.
Tue Nov 26, 2024, 09:22 AM
Nov 2024

However, I find it interesting that you obviously don't feel your position is warranted enough to clarify the specifics. Or that it might not stand up to debate or scrutiny.

I suppose your position of feeling constantly attacked is understandable. However, just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that they are trying to 'attack' you. But, pointing out that we should ignore some issues just to win an election will probably earn you some flak. Especially when those issues pertain to people who are already marginalized and ostracized enough. The fact that you see our position as an 'imagined disagreement' is also interesting as well as a bit scary, to be honest.

I am also not sure I understand why you feel that I expect '100% compliance'. Unless you expect this from your own position.

I expect people to give a shit about each other. Which means choosing humans over politics and money. I am not sure why this is 'divisive' or 'fringe'.

I guess we don't see eye to eye on this.



Solly Mack

(97,130 posts)
88. What fringe culture? What abrasive ideals? What contentious ideals? What divisive subjects?
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 09:05 AM
Nov 2024

Could you clarify?

Thank you in advance.

Passages

(4,376 posts)
89. Yes. Many Dems already understand that: Frontline Democrats Won With Progressive Populist Messages
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 09:21 AM
Nov 2024
Longtime Democratic moderates who attacked big business and monopolies outpaced Harris in swing districts.

by Luke Goldstein November 22, 2024

More often than not, efforts to fight corporate power come from the left flank of the Democratic Party, and have ever since progressives spawned the regulatory state in the early 20th century and the New Deal took on Wall Street. For the past several decades, by contrast, the party’s centrists have generally been more accommodating toward free-market solutions.

But times are changing as old ideological reflexes are starting to come undone.

SNIP
In The New York Times, John Fetterman’s former chief of staff Adam Jentleson went so far as to say that giant corporations such as Amazon are “extremely popular” and thus candidates looking to rein in corporate power “are the inverse of what voters want—people with the cultural sensibilities of Yale Law School graduates who cosplay as populists by over-relying on niche issues like Federal Trade Commission antitrust actions.”

The premise of this argument relies just about entirely on a misreading of the electorate at the national level that completely falls apart on closer inspection of the down-ballot races. Across the country, candidates not named Kamala Harris found success by more effectively selling the achievements of the Biden administration and casting a more convincing economic message.
https://prospect.org/politics/2024-11-22-frontline-democrats-won-with-progressive-populist-messages/

Jit423

(1,568 posts)
93. When have we not championed what the OP said?
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 11:10 AM
Nov 2024

Are we falling for the opposition's lies about ourselves? WTF? Are we buying into the lie that Democrats no longer care about American working families and the poor just because many of us expressed our compassion for the suffering Gazans caused by Israeli retaliation for the horrific attack on their innocent citizens attending a festival on Oct 7. Are we allowing ourselves to feel guilty because many of us are angry about the surprise attack by Hamas that killed hundreds of Israelis attending a crowded music festival?

STOP IT!!! We are allowing our opposition to define us with their lies and labeling as though we are what they say we are.
Yes, introspection is necessary and healthy but that is for us to do within our party among our selves and our echelon. We seem to be allowing the opposition to re-frame the issues in their favor and redefine what we stand for and who we are.

Divide and conquer is still the name of their game.

bigtree

(94,551 posts)
95. people can't be bothered to promote the 'championing' that we do everyday as a party
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 11:22 AM
Nov 2024

...then we get nonsense supposing Democrats haven't, when republicans do nothing but work against those interests.

We are the ONLY ones standing up for workers.

Lovie777

(23,399 posts)
103. Agreed..............
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 06:52 PM
Nov 2024

the shithole party will screw the working class again, Dems come and help them, clean up what the GQP to the working class. Propaganda kicks in for the RWers..............

Rinse and repeat.

oldmanlynn

(831 posts)
102. Agreed and while I writing
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 05:45 PM
Nov 2024

We should not have policies where all we talk about is LGBTQ rights and transgender rights and women’s rights. It’s gotta be everybody.

We get caught up in solely talking about LGBTQ and trans rights and all these other things and we forget about just regular everyday people

I’m not saying to give a cold shoulder to those groups. I’m just saying that that cannot be our 100% sole focus

white_wolf

(6,257 posts)
105. Harris didn't talk about queer people at all hardly.
Mon Nov 25, 2024, 11:32 PM
Nov 2024

It's the Republicans who constantly talk about queer people. It was the Republicans who ran ads attacking trans people. The Democrats barely said anything on those topics. We can be pro working class and not throw queer people under the bus. Frankly, the moment we do that i the moment I give up on the Democratic Party completely.

Fish700

(148 posts)
110. It looks to me that Hate, Lies, and stupidity are what the electorate want.
Tue Nov 26, 2024, 12:53 AM
Nov 2024

President Biden did talk about price gouging billionaires being the reason groceries are so expensive. He should have just said it every day or every time a reporter asked him a question. This would have been more effective with low information voters than "the economy is great.)

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