Jack Smith dropping cases WITHOUT PREJUDICE, i.e., refilable later, after Trump's out of office

[David Boyle]

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/25/us/politics/jack-smith-trump-election-documents-charges.html

"But as he sought dismissal of the cases before Mr. Trump is inaugurated, Mr. Smith did not definitively close the door on eventually prosecuting him. In both cases his requests were for dismissals “without prejudice,” leaving open the possibility that the charges might be refiled after Mr. Trump leaves office for the second time."

This may also be done in the New York hush money cases.

So don't have a pity party when we don't know what'll happen. Trump lost on Gaetz, he can lose on plenty of things. Peace.

[In It to Win It]

1. The appetite to do that will be gone by then...

[David Boyle]

3. It may be much greater

If he tanks the economy, starts WWIII, etc.

[jimfields33]

51. The new AG will come in and dismiss them with prejudice

Legal analysts on MSNBC are saying this. Trumps not going to risk that being even a remote possibility.

[David Boyle]

52. Thanks

Again, will look bad, tho.

[jimfields33]

54. Now that is something trump definitely doesn't care

about. I don’t think he cares about his history either.

[IL Dem]

71. My understanding is that it's up to the presiding judge to make that call.

In this case Judge Chutkan. Smith is requesting that. The judge can either grant it or deny it.

[David Boyle]

74. Like chutney, but better

She has a cool name.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

128. I'm afraid so... another Rethug felon who thinks he's above the law.

Callin bullshit on that!!

[NotHardly]

97. Not on my watch ... if Trump is still alive, it will come back. If he's still alive.

He is very old ... very

[Prairie Gates]

2. Keep hope alive

[David Boyle]

4. It's true!

Didn't Jesse Jackson say that?

[bdamomma]

5. Maybe Jack Smith

will go back to the ICC, heck he may even see the felon there???? I can hope can't I?

[David Boyle]

11. May not happen, but you never know

USA isn't signed up to the ICC, so could be difficult...

[ancianita]

69. Neither is Russia, but Putin has been declared an international criminal by the ICC per the Rome Statute

articles: (8(2)(a)(vii) and 8(2)(b)(viii); article 25(3)(a); article 28(b).

17 March 2023, ICC judges issued arrest warrants for Russian leader Vladimir Putin and the Presidential Commissioner for Children's Rights in Russia Maria Lvova-Belova[43][44][45][46] for child abductions in the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. Russia denounced the arrest warrants as "outrageous".[46][47] Putin became the first head of state of a U.N. Security Council Permanent Member to be the subject of an ICC arrest warrant.[44]

Although Russia withdrew its signature from the Rome Statute in 2016, and is thus not a participant in the ICC nor under its jurisdiction, Putin can be charged for actions against Ukraine, which is not a party but has accepted jurisdiction of the court since 2014. Should Putin travel to a state party, he can be arrested by local authorities.[47]

Later in 2023, Russia's Ministry of Internal Affairs retaliated by placing several ICC officials on its wanted list.[48][49][50] In March 2024, the ICC issued two more arrest warrants, for Sergey Kobylash, the commander of the Long-Range Aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces, and Viktor Sokolov, the commander of the Black Sea Fleet over their role in war crimes in Ukraine.[51]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Court#:~:text=Four%20signatory%20states—Israel%20in,their%20signature%20of%20the%20Statute.

[David Boyle]

70. Thanks!

Pooh on Putin!

[flvegan]

6. Trump kind of has an easy out on the federal cases, doesn't he? n/t

[David Boyle]

12. For now...

[allegorical oracle]

7. Hate to be a downer, but the statute of limitations likely will expire within TSF's

POTUS term.

[David Boyle]

13. Not sure

[kelly1mm]

8. What is the statute of limitations though? Is it tolled while the President is in office? nt

[David Boyle]

15. Good Q

May be tolled. ?

[surfered]

17. Same question and further, are they affected by Smith voluntarily dropping the charges rather than being fired?

[David Boyle]

18. I think it looks better

He hasn't been fired yet, and people ask for dismissal without prejudice constantly.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

129. It should be tolled, especially if the Felon-in-Chief is immune from prosecution while in office.

[David Boyle]

134. "Tolled you so!"

[Cirsium]

9. There we go

So that's the end of that, then.

[David Boyle]

14. "Noe! That wasn't mah PURNT!!"

[Cirsium]

20. It is all such a colossal disaster

The whole thing is just such a colossal disaster. Have we ever been misled and betrayed. How on earth have so many things gone so hideously wrong?

[David Boyle]

22. "Theodicy"

The term for, "Why does God allow evil?", etc.

[Cirsium]

96. I see

In other words, the beatings will continue until morale improves?

[BlueTsunami2018]

10. So, never then.

Got it.

[David Boyle]

16. Haw haw

Can't say for sure... again, if people hate him 4 years from now, it could happen.

[Patton French]

19. Except for the statute of limitations

Which can be tolled only if both sides agree.

[David Boyle]

21. If so, that's important

Thanks.

Though sometimes that's in a civil suit, and/or if there's a prior agreement about tolling, maybe, I've read.

[yaesu]

23. justice delayed is justice denied, its over, last one out turn the lights out. nt

[ramedy]

24. Can we get real?

It’s over. Trump isn’t going to prison. Jack Smith is now a footnote. Garland was a fucking failure. A Trojan horse.

Don’t cling to a fantasy.

A billion dollars didn’t save our democracy.

[David Boyle]

27. We don't know...

. . .

[Traildogbob]

28. Ut 15 billion bought it

Just so they can destroy it.
And make multiple billions more after the destruction.
What a gig!

[jimfields33]

53. Trump raised like 275 million.

He was severely outspent. Remember he couldn’t even afford a ground game.

[Traildogbob]

55. Not the trump's cash

He did not put a dime into campaign cash. The RNC and all their PAC’s spent 15 billion, as per many documented posts here.

[SunSeeker]

91. Exactly. Trump didn't need to raise a penny, with $15 Billion coming from GOP PACs.

Which makes the $1 Billion Harris raised look like peanuts.

Just anecdotally here in purple Orange County, California, the peo-Republican ads and slick mailers far outnumbered the pro-Democratic ones. It was painfully obvious the Republicans had way more money on their side...dark money.

[David Boyle]

94. Purple Orange County... heh

What a colorful concept!

[SunSeeker]

108. It is! Orange County was a lot more "orange" when I moved here years ago!

But now it is slowly turning blue. Kamala beat Shitler 49.7% to 47.1% in OC! https://electionresults.sos.ca.gov/returns/president/county/orange

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

130. Democracy is for sale... what a disgrace!!

[David Boyle]

133. Life's more than money...

!

[awesomerwb1]

25. The orange guy is above the law

If it makes people feel a tiny bit better, then cool if it's refiled.

I'm 99.9% sure it won't happen.

I'm 75% sure we will not have honest elections for 10 years as well.

[WarGamer]

26. For those confused by this... the Judge decides this, not Smith.

Smith has made a request.

[David Boyle]

30. Good point

Let's hope it's granted! (It often is)

[osteopath6]

31. Is it common

For judges to force a prosecutor to try a case? I'm not very legal saavy.

[WarGamer]

32. Judge will decide the disposition of prejudice.

[David Boyle]

35. Force, I'm not sure

Prosecutors usually get to decide to charge someone, or not. Then the judge is the "referee".

Maybe if there were some quirk.

[David Boyle]

39. May be more frequent for judge to force NOT to try a case

For lack of evidence, bias, other reasons for not allowing charges to stick.

[osteopath6]

29. Many said it all along

He won't face justice and those who make a living out of insisting he will (despite all evidence to the contrary) are hucksters

[EndlessWire]

40. Don't call disappointed people

"hucksters." They're not trying to sell you anything.

[David Boyle]

42. Amen. That is right

By the way, if you'd like to buy the Brooklyn Bridge, I have a great deal...

(kidding)

[osteopath6]

140. I'm not in the market

I'm not interested in bridges 😋 I just care that a bunch of my fellow citizens, voters and cognizant thinkers may be falling for a really big mistake.

It's fantastical thinking and we see it time and again. The WH and CISA have said the election was fair, there are no hidden angles or conspiracies. This is Joe.

[David Boyle]

141. Con games or hustles are bad

, no matter who does them, true.

[osteopath6]

139. Disagree

They are trying to sell me on the nonsensical self defeating ideology of election denialism while building their "unique" "brand" "positioning them" to "best confront Trump"

This equates to: "I'll string you along and pitch a few zingers"

Huckster is a proper fit.

[RobinA]

33. Who In Their Right Mind

doesn't know what will happen? We've been watching this show for at least 8 years now.

[oldtime dfl_er]

34. He'll just pardon himself

And he'll find a way to pardon himself on state crimes as well.

[David Boyle]

36. That may happen

Would make him look bad, though.

[onecaliberal]

37. The rapist will never leave office. NEVER.

Only when he expires, and then they will try to install gums and then anchor baby.

[David Boyle]

38. Gums? Anchor baby?

[dpibel]

105. Eric and Barron

[David Boyle]

106. Ah. Thx

[Cartoonist]

41. No way is he still alive in 2028

I'm hoping for good news before inauguration.

[jimfields33]

78. January 20, 2029 is his last day in office.

[moniss]

43. All that will be neeed is for the new AG to petition the court

to reopen if necessary in order to change the motion to withdraw from without to with. I'm sure no court will stand in the way.

[David Boyle]

48. Interesting

It may look really bad, though.

[moniss]

72. Many people wouldn't

catch your sly wit but I did.

[David Boyle]

73. More sly than I thought

Wasn't trying to joke...

[moniss]

123. Undertsood. I don't

think these people really care though about whether something looks bad.

[David Boyle]

125. They might

Or their funders or enablers might, and might put pressure on them...

[jimfields33]

76. Except those pesky statues of limitations which

expire in 2026. Sure they can still bring the case but of course the lawyers will just go to the Supreme Court in 2029.

[David Boyle]

79. The show should be interestin' ...

[jimfields33]

83. I think the new stuff coming our way beginning in January

will keep us on our toes. January 6th will be seen as a little tea party in comparison. Rough waters ahead.

[David Boyle]

86. Good point

Could be January 6 every day!

[jimfields33]

90. What a true factual thought.

Our next disappointment is the January 6th pardons on January 20th. That will embolden those soon to be former criminals.

[David Boyle]

95. Ugh

Even if he doesn't pardon all of them, any pardons are bad.

[moniss]

126. Yes. Basically what

I'm saying is that the scenario I'm laying out would mean nobody could ever bring the case. Normally prejudice would attach in a case if a defendant had already gone through pre-trial motions and the trial had gone past that to a point of starting etc. Even though the argument for prejudice here would be incredibly weak I don't doubt some judge will grant it if asked. Deference to the king.

[David Boyle]

127. "Hail to the Thief"

Etc.

[moniss]

135. Marvelous. nt

[David Boyle]

137. T*h*A*n*K*s*

[Sogo]

44. Does that mean there are no statutes of limitations on the charges?

[republianmushroom]

45. HAHAHA Refileable later. You betchum, Red Rider. HAHAHA

Last edited Mon Nov 25, 2024, 05:04 PM - Edit history (1)

Not if we have another AG like Merrick the Meek.

No man is above the law, got it. HAHAHA

46 months and counting

[benfranklin1776]

64. He kept his powder dry....

Until it exploded in our country’s face

[Thrill]

46. Stop fooling yourself

They aren’t charging this guy with anything. He’s untouchable. Above the law.

[David Boyle]

49. E. Jean Carroll

Owes her $100 million or so.

[Thrill]

50. Good luck getting it

[jimfields33]

56. She will not get a dime. It's a federal case.

I bet in this he’ll definitely pardon himself.

[David Boyle]

57. Not sure he can pardon in a civil case

It's a civil suit, not criminal charges, so he may be up a creek.

[jimfields33]

59. I still think he'll find a way to not pay her.

I know a company is backing up the money. But remember everyone thought that was a phony business. I think we will find out we were right.

[old guy]

98. She will never see one penny.

[David Boyle]

99. Maybe he'll pay her in pennies

"One a-cent, two a-cent..."

[EndlessWire]

47. What a piece of trash Trump is.

Now we'll have to listen to him brag about how innocent he "is." Like when his in-the-pocket trash judge Cannon dismissed that case. He didn't win that case. Now, we'll have to listen to all the rest of it.

[H2O Man]

58. Recommended.

It's important that people here understand exactly what Mr. Smith did, and exactly why.

[David Boyle]

61. He da mannn!!

[old guy]

107. I understand.

He is showing us that he is just another lawyer pissing on us and telling us it's rose scented water. No thanks.

[H2O Man]

110. Gracious.

Tell us, please, what you would prefer he had done?

[David Boyle]

114. Good point...

[old guy]

118. Continue his job as special prosecutor.

Seek justice... oh never mind, that's not a lawyers job. Sorry I bothered you.

[H2O Man]

119. You didn't bother me.

You lack the capacity to do so. In fact, I'm laughing at the thought of Mr. Smith staying on the case until January 20. So what exactly would you have wanted him to do between now and then?

[elleng]

60. THANKS for including WITHOUT PREJUDICE.

Folks, note this is IMPORTANT, means refilable later, as discussed/explained.

[David Boyle]

65. I do my best!

Welcome!

[elleng]

67. Welcome!

[Seeking Serenity]

120. Highly doubtful. The statute of limitations on those charges expire on 1-6-26

And Bob's your uncle.

[malthaussen]

63. I will be astonished if DJT is still alive by then. n/t

[David Boyle]

68. Ghola

The tech boys from Dune will make a clone of him.

[Demobrat]

66. Hopefully the pig will be dead and roasting in hell by then.

[David Boyle]

115. Avoid the Dark Side,

young Skywalker...

[GreenWave]

75. He will waddle for some other job...

[David Boyle]

77. Confused

Trump will find some other job after his presidency? Besides hotels/steaks/classified documents etc. ?

[GreenWave]

80. He can't physically run, so SCROTUS may come up with another rulng.

[Passages]

81. Jack Smith

My hero.

[David Boyle]

85. Jack Smith - the real John Wick

Heh

[Passages]

89. Totally.

[Ponietz]

82. The defendant's RIGHT to a speedy trial dooms the case even if the Statute of Limitations doesn't

Get over yourself.

[David Boyle]

87. Dunno

. . .

[oldmanlynn]

84. When Trump is done with his 47th presidency

there is no way the United States of America is gonna go after an 82-year-o

[turbinetree]

88. SO now the asshole can stand on fifth avenue and shoot someone and nothing will happen.............

When the MAGA court invalidated the Colorado court to have this asshole removed says everything of what this country is having today....................and just to add further insult when he could have been impeached not once but twice by the corrupt senate and they failed.........

[stumpysbear]

92. Keep dreaming

[David Boyle]

93. "Don't stop bel..."

Thank you Journey!

[HereForTheParty]

100. How the FUCK does that matter?

The damage will be done by then. And you're assuming we'll get a Democratic president and a DOJ with an appetite for prosecuting a 80-something former president.

[David Boyle]

103. Better than nutt'n...

[4th gen blue]

136. Jack let the country down.

I guess he thinks this some sort of consolation. Not impressed.

[David Boyle]

138. He had a hard road to hoe.

[AverageOldGuy]

101. Trump is not a free man

Charges are dropped “without prejudice” which means (1) charges can be brought later, and (2) the charges have “tolled” which means statute of limitations does not run out, and (3) evidence has been into PACER which means evidence will not be destroyed.

All of which could mean in four years Trump’s shit is in the street. If we can only hang in for four years, he has nowhere to hide.

[David Boyle]

102. Ah, PACER

The pacemaker of justice! :

[madville]

111. That's assuming a Republican doesn't follow him

If a Republican president is elected after Trump then he’s home free. Even if a Democrat is elected next I think he’ll resign the week before the inauguration and then JD Vance will pardon him for any federal crimes.

[Seeking Serenity]

121. Why do you believe the SOL will be (or must be) tolled?

I've not seen a good primer on this point.

[David Boyle]

104. BREAK'n: Chutkan dismisses... without prejudice

https://www.ualrpublicradio.org/npr-news/2024-11-25/judge-grants-dismissal-of-jan-6-case-against-trump

Surprise!

[awesomerwb1]

109. Nice gesture

But they will rig everything so that trump stays in power past his 4 years, or he's untouchable after his 4 years are over.

[Lunabell]

112. I hope trump is dead long before that.

He looks like he is one hamberder away from a stroke. So mote it be.

[David Boyle]

113. Uh oh

Avoid the Dark Side...

[Lunabell]

116. You can't have the light without the dark.

Kali Ma is both bringer of life and of death.

[David Boyle]

117. Ooh

Not gonna say anything.

[Dem4life1234]

122. The jack o lantern should have been in the jail house

Not the white house.

Karma needs to hurry up.

[David Boyle]

124. Someone has to drive the kar-ma faster down the road

[BunkieBandit]

131. Sorry, I don't feel

a big momentum swing our way just yet.

[David Boyle]

132. One day...

Hope hops...

[townie]

142. I still think Jack or someone else will get him. Too big to forget

[David Boyle]

143. "One can only hope..."