My Pro Palestine cousin wished me a "Happy Colonialist Occupation Day." Is this really necessary?

[PeaceWave]

He also says he refuses to eat turkey today because he considers it "a symbol of colonial aggression towards indigenous peoples." It's a turkey for God's sake. Thankfully for him, there will also be tamales and enchiladas for him to choose from. Good grief. Happy Turkey Liberation Day everyone!

[Biophilic]

1. Is there a reason you invited him?

[PeaceWave]

2. He's not joining us. He sent this message via text.

[Archae]

7. Hope he just spends the holiday alone.

He should.

[lapfog_1]

3. tamales and enchiladas

interpretations of Spanish food. And the Spanish... err... "colonies" in all of the Americas.
South, Central, and North America.

But never mind logic.

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. According to Wikipedia, tamales and enchiladas are both pre-Colombian, not Spanish

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamale
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enchilada

[Hekate]

21. However, SHOCKINGLY, we gringos have culturally appropriated these foodstuffs

[Celerity]

47. corn was not introduced to Europe until the Columbian exchange, so it is your logic that is flawed, unfortunately

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maize

After the arrival of Europeans in 1492, Spanish settlers consumed maize, and explorers and traders carried it back to Europe. Spanish settlers much preferred wheat bread to maize. Maize flour could not be substituted for wheat for communion bread, since in Christian belief at that time only wheat could undergo transubstantiation and be transformed into the body of Christ.

Maize spread to the rest of the world because of its ability to grow in diverse climates. It was cultivated in Spain just a few decades after Columbus's voyages and then spread to Italy, West Africa and elsewhere. By the 17th century, it was a common peasant food in Southern Europe. By the 18th century, it was the chief food of the southern French and Italian peasantry, especially as polenta in Italy.

[lapfog_1]

48. of course I knew that

but my logic about the Spanish establishing colonies in the Americas ( most of South America... most of Central America, and part of North America ) were all Spanish colonies... My point was that both Turkeys and tamales were native to the Americas, but the colonies from Europe ( England and Spain and Portugal ) all decimated the natives ( actually much worse than mere decimated as that term means literally to reduce by one-tenth or to kill every tenth person in a group ).

So turning down a turkey dinner because it represents the evil colonists but instead eating tamales or tacos ( Hispanic food whose origins lie with the native Aztecs and possibly Inca civilizations ) is illogical in the extreme.

But everyone would love to educate me rather than see the Spanish as the same as the English as the true colonists of America... and I am guessing that is because it can't be because of white guilt of our joint white English ancestors wanting to have colonies and take land from some of MY other ancestors. However, I am not Native American because I am only 3/8ths native. I do have an aunt and cousins that live on reservations to this day but I don't count myself as Native.

I find the argument that only white people from northern Europe... as opposed to white people from southern Europe, are to blame for the colonies in America. Especially when we are all taught ( erroneously ) that "Columbus discovered America" but forget who it was that gave him the money to buy the ships and hire the crew.

[Celerity]

49. my reply was very narrow in focus, sorry if you thought I was making a general claim on the totality of your thoughts

apologies,

Cel

[RedWhiteBlueIsRacist]

4. Wow, he should of come to my house, no Thanksgiving

or turkey for over 32 years now. In fact, for lunch, I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, and the wife had a pack of "Nabs"!

[Archae]

6. Tell him to go to hell.

Let him have Thanksgiving alone.

[The Wandering Harper]

8. if he came with it out of the blue it's just crass and counterproductive

though I tend to share his sentiment about this day

[JI7]

9. Much of the "pro Palestinian" movement is performative bs

[womanofthehills]

18. I don't think so

On “Breaking Points” they were interviewing black women about why they didn’t vote Dem this time - and almost all of them mentioned the children being killed daily in Palestine as one of their reasons. If you are on social media - everyday you see more dead babies and kids. Now we are seeing thousands of kids without arms and legs day after day -Most women I know are horrified.

Not that Trump will be any better - probably be worse but it’s really affected women and the young.

[JI7]

19. Most black women voted for Kamala Harris. What you say is performative bs

if they had real concern for Gaza they would focus on the leadership in Gaza.

[JustAnotherGen]

22. 92% of us Voted for Harris

Please leave Black Women out of this. We want to be left alone.

None of this is our fault.

Black men - 78%.

There are a lot of other demographics that need to be put on the hot seat. Look to them.

We get it - Democracy and the Social Safety net for EVERYONE was not enough. We are passe. Old fashioned. Out of time.

Move onto someone new.

[DaBronx]

30. Well said

Thank you.

[Voltaire2]

39. Seriously. The problem is white people.

The minority blame game, every f’ing election is ignorant.

[malaise]

52. White people who love myths

and reinvent history because the truth hurts their feelings.

[Dorian Gray]

26. The vast majority of black women

voted for Kamala.

[EX500rider]

28. "on social media - everyday you see more dead babies and kids Now we are seeing thousands of kids without arms and legs"

I hate to think where on Social Media you hang out, I see zero of that and it would be against most normal social media websites posting rules in fact.

[LeftInTX]

38. Telegram and TikTok

I've seen it on YouTube also. But Arabic media focuses on one thing and shows it over and over.

[Irish_Dem]

10. The PutinGOP propaganda has been very successful.

Do these same people care about the fact it is a crime to treat dying women in some US states?
Or that American children are shot to ribbons while they sit in school with military grade weapons.

But we are supposed to believe they care about the Palestinians when they don't care about their own citizens?

[Big Blue Marble]

12. Your supposition is inexplicable.

I do care about the Palestinian who are suffering and starving and care about the rights of women
and gun violence. People with empathy and compassion can actually care about all injustice at
the same time.

Happy Thanksgiving to you.

[Irish_Dem]

15. Wrong. I do not see these same people protesting everywhere for dying US women.

Or the fact American children are being slaughtered in US schools.

Why aren't they protesting on US campuses for those causes?

Why aren't they using their votes to save American lives?

Why are they not vocal about American women and children being slaughtered?

I might begin to believe you if these people gave a good god damn about Americans
and demonstrated to save US lives.

[Big Blue Marble]

16. How do you know they are not?

I care about all these issues; I am not marching in the streets, are you?

And by the way, there is no comparison between the number of Gazian women and children
who have been slaughtered in the last 13 months and the numbers of women and children
who have been killed in the US. If there were, everyone would be in the streets.

[JI7]

20. It's phony bs . If they had real concern about Gaza they would focus on Gaza leadership

[Dorian Gray]

27. Of course you can care about all those things

But people who genuinely care about righting a wrong don't do it by texting meaningless BS to their cousin. They actively go out and try affect change in a meaningful way.

What we've witnessed with some activists of late is essentially careless "look at how much I care more than everyone else" narcissism. It's careless acts of "resistance" which anger society agains the cause. They're going into communities, wreaking havoc, and leaving people worse off than they were.

"They were careless people, Tom and Daisy—they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness, or whatever it was that kept them together, and let other people clean up the mess they had made" is from The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald

[Big Blue Marble]

11. Perhaps you should ask an indigenous person their opinion.

All the rest of us are colonial occupiers. And the turkeys are not so sure that their fate is a form
of liberation.

[BannonsLiver]

34. Seeing as I've lived in a state chock full of IPs

I have seen a broad mix of views over the decades. Some will celebrate it if for no other reasons than their blended families include white people. Others completely disavow it. I’m not sure how it is in Connecticut or Vermont or wherever you live.

[newdeal2]

13. Lot of people celebrate it as a traditional fall feast

My family (and I'm sure many other immigrant families) don't really do the traditional Thanksgiving (whatever that is). We make a variety of food - one year could be Mexican, Italian, etc. - and get together, watch TV or movies, and relax. That's it and I don't see why we would want or need to stop.

[Meowmee]

14. Don't forget to text him back that the arabic / islamic culture

Forcefully colonized much of the ME, Africa, Asia and elsewhere.

[nycbos]

29. People forget about that part

[WhiskeyGrinder]

17. You're trying too hard.

[Blue_Tires]

23. You need to tell your cousin to smuggle himself into Gaza

And pick up a rifle if he's that committed to "the cause"; and call him a poser if he doesn't 😅

[Scrivener7]

24. And your brother demanded to make a pro trump speech for grace.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=19766221

Your relatives suck. OR you are not very good at this.

[tenderfoot]

36. The latter

eom

[Prairie Gates]

44. DING DING DING!

[Dorian Gray]

25. Way to be a stereotype, Pro Palestine Cousin.

They're boring.

If they care about Palestine, they'll advocate for the people there rather than attempting to shame you.

[ForgedCrank]

31. Some people

are just perpetually angry and they seem to only find relief through trying to ruin things for everyone else.
It's kind of sad to watch it. Unfortunately, these types are not at all rare either.

[JI7]

41. I don't think they are angry at all. I think they enjoy useless shit like this

which makes them feel as if they are morally superior without doing anything.

[ThePartyThatListens]

32. Your pro Palestinian cousin is not wrong

[tenderfoot]

35. Things that didn't happen for $500

eom

[LeftInTX]

37. Lol Turkey, corn, potatoes, squash, pumpkin, tomatoes

He needs to boycott alot of food for a long time if this is his protest. This includes enchiladas and tamales. I'm trying to think of more ingenious foods.
Pineapples, guava, papaya, avocados, peppers
Did native Americans boycott turkeys?

[Crunchy Frog]

50. Chocolate.

[Voltaire2]

40. This thread reminds me of confederate flag justifying. NT.

[LeftInTX]

45. You're calling us confederates?

If we eat turkey?

Please. Don't eat any food indigenous to the Americas ever again and get back to us. This means no more turkey, tomatoes, potatoes , corn, pepper, pineapples, avocados etc. If you consider eating indigenous food being a confederate, then don't eat it.

[Voltaire2]

46. No.

[betsuni]

42. Turkey is an indigenous species to North America. How can something indigenous be a symbol of colonialism?

I don't get it. How does someone not know this? Bet they don't know corn is indigenous either.

Last year protesters were glueing themselves to the sidewalk before the Thanksgiving parade. Not this year. No more glue? Don't think it's the same government as last year? Mission accomplished, Trump's victory? Any more gluing protests, ever, I'll be shocked. Only if it hurts Democrats from getting elected. Republicans do whatever they want, no consequences!

[Prairie Gates]

43. Hmmmmm

Nah.

[Think. Again.]

51. Did you ask to know more about the day he was referring to?

I didn't realize there was a day recognized for that.

[Paladin]

53. I've terminated all contact with some relatives for less.

Tell your cousin to fuck all the way off. Consider it your effort to maintain decent family standards.