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onecaliberal

(36,211 posts)
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 07:04 PM Nov 29

3 words...

Wealth of Elon Musk
2012: $2,000,000,000
2023: $248,800,000,000

Wealth of Jeff Bezos
2012: $18,400,000,000
2023: $160,900,000,000

Wealth of Mark Zuckerberg
2012: $17,500,000,000
2023: $105,200,000,000

Federal Minimum Wage
2012: $7.25
2023: $7.25

Three words: tax the rich.

68 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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3 words... (Original Post) onecaliberal Nov 29 OP
It's foul. Lunabell Nov 29 #1
They are disgusting human beings Clouds Passing Nov 29 #2
One of the worst things about billionaires is that they inspire envy. Yavin4 Nov 29 #3
Yeah ThePartyThatListens Nov 29 #4
Shhh don't distract the useful MAGAts Blue Owl Nov 29 #5
REID-out VERY depressing tonight. elleng Nov 29 #6
Right on! MLAA Nov 29 #7
Sorry Cirsium Nov 29 #8
I appreciate 'practical' suggestion, and you're right, but 'remedying' the crap they're about to put us through elleng Nov 29 #10
This needs a sarcasm smiley. Some people might not get it, lol ms liberty Nov 29 #12
You're not wrong: onecaliberal Nov 29 #23
My bad Cirsium Nov 30 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author ShazzieB Nov 29 #20
Thing is jcanuck Nov 29 #9
I agree. I'm sickened by the fact that we won independence from a monarchy, set up a system that relied on informed LT Barclay Nov 29 #30
Bill Gates used to be one of those. Kablooie Nov 29 #11
Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but we are relying on billionaires to gain a conscience. I believe those decisions LT Barclay Nov 29 #31
Sadly, we are also relying on the public to elect people with a concience. progressoid Nov 30 #36
The majority of the public has a deep psychosis. But I still think that putting decisions in a place where an election LT Barclay Dec 1 #67
How much will it take for them to feel like they have enough? Why do they need more than what japple Nov 29 #13
It's not really about Linda ladeewolf Nov 30 #41
I agree, it is a disease, an obsession. Trust_Reality Nov 30 #43
Is there any place where they actually pay that low minimum wage ? JI7 Nov 29 #14
Here in PA, the state's minimum wage is the same as the federal - $7.25 BumRushDaShow Nov 29 #15
I do think they should still raise it JI7 Nov 29 #16
They definitely need to raise it BumRushDaShow Nov 29 #18
To me the problem with that is that the minimum wage used to be starter jobs that young people took to get a start and LT Barclay Nov 29 #32
Taxing them isn't enough Charmin One Nov 29 #17
2 Words Nigrum Cattus Nov 29 #19
So, why hasn't the last four years included a dime in min wage? James48 Nov 29 #21
That is the question isn't it? onecaliberal Nov 29 #24
How does Musk earn 248B? What am I missing? Honda's gross profit is about 32B Scrivener7 Nov 29 #22
No source for the numbers mnhtnbb Nov 30 #38
$323 billion (today) Polybius Nov 30 #46
I think "It takes money to make money" is pretty much how capitalism works. Trust_Reality Nov 30 #48
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the... FailureToCommunicate Nov 29 #25
Instead of commissioning a yacht... GiqueCee Nov 29 #26
You know, Bernie was right. We need a revolution. KPN Nov 29 #27
Chris Hedges has been saying the same thing. I'm waiting for someone to step into the mantle of leadership, preferably LT Barclay Nov 29 #33
Yet Maga thinks its immigrants stealing their jobs and transgender Tribetime Nov 29 #28
Distractions that many people fall for. Trust_Reality Nov 30 #50
They have everything they could ever want or need including a tax cut TSF promised them. Deuxcents Nov 29 #29
Massive gulf RANDYWILDMAN Nov 29 #34
If only people could change for the better JR11 Nov 29 #35
end citizens united. mopinko Nov 30 #39
What about charities Falcon101 Nov 30 #40
Eat The Rich HarryM Nov 30 #42
It'll help them prove their patriotism and sincere love of AND FOR their country. calimary Nov 30 #44
Question about Musk Polybius Nov 30 #45
Impressive TBF Nov 30 #49
It was far from "just interest" Polybius Nov 30 #54
Two words... government contracts. druidity33 Nov 30 #59
You're not wrong Polybius Nov 30 #63
Wowee - TBF Nov 30 #60
I don't worship him Polybius Nov 30 #64
Perhaps in NY; here in TX the gas guzzling SUV's TBF Nov 30 #65
I own one too, and don't have a home charger Polybius Sunday #68
2 words ..... Hotler Nov 30 #47
I'm with you. Trust_Reality Nov 30 #56
I'm learning too, this is how it starts, two people, then get a third...... start here in Colorado Hotler Nov 30 #58
Anything over a billion is obscene. bif Nov 30 #51
K&R spanone Nov 30 #52
The way to deal with this is the tax code - TBF Nov 30 #53
2 more words, CORPORATE WELFARE. Bluethroughu Nov 30 #55
That doesn't sound like actual socialism to me. Trust_Reality Nov 30 #57
Corporate welfare, "their people my friend", says Romney Bluethroughu Nov 30 #66
truly obscene. Who the fuck needs that much, and if you have it, why not use it for good instead of evil?? Evolve Dammit Nov 30 #61
3 words...eat the rich alterfurz Nov 30 #62

Yavin4

(36,526 posts)
3. One of the worst things about billionaires is that they inspire envy.
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 07:11 PM
Nov 29

Being worth $100M is looked upon as being when compared to these guys. So, now you pull out all stops to get to that billionaire class no matter how many people you step on in the process.

Blue Owl

(54,857 posts)
5. Shhh don't distract the useful MAGAts
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 07:20 PM
Nov 29

The real problem is trans people using the wrong bathroom

Cirsium

(1,039 posts)
8. Sorry
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 07:56 PM
Nov 29

Be practical. You need to be realistic. We are taking baby steps. These things take time. Not all rich people are bad. That will never pass in Congress. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. That will just alienate our big donors. We live in a center-right country. Republicans will call us the "tax and spend" party and other bad names. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, BUT...

elleng

(136,626 posts)
10. I appreciate 'practical' suggestion, and you're right, but 'remedying' the crap they're about to put us through
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 08:20 PM
Nov 29

will take TIME, AT LEAST 2+years and another term.

We're about to feel effects of 'perfect' thanks to Joe Biden, the wreckers are coming, and after THAT, Dems will have to fix things AGAIN!!!

Very sad that so many actually feel alienated.

Response to Cirsium (Reply #8)

jcanuck

(2 posts)
9. Thing is
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 08:13 PM
Nov 29

The thing I would dearly like to have explained to me, by a Conservative or a Republican voter is; “Why do you think Donald Trump or, Pierre Polievre, is better than you?” Because they claim to know more than you, and so, you put your trust in them. Question is; “Why don’t you trust yourselves?” ‘Cause they ain’t better than you; they just need you. Until, they don’t.

LT Barclay

(2,762 posts)
30. I agree. I'm sickened by the fact that we won independence from a monarchy, set up a system that relied on informed
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 11:04 PM
Nov 29

voters making rational decisions and instead we have a bunch of sycophants trying to turn the whole show back into a quasi-monarchy, with whatever label the totalitarian regime will resemble. All because they are too lazy to take an real interest in what is going on and too selfish or racist to help a neighbor up.

Kablooie

(18,790 posts)
11. Bill Gates used to be one of those.
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 08:22 PM
Nov 29

But then he decided to try to put his money to good use and started his Foundation.
He donates large amounts to worthy causes to help people around the world.

LT Barclay

(2,762 posts)
31. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but we are relying on billionaires to gain a conscience. I believe those decisions
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 11:06 PM
Nov 29

belong in the public sphere, not based on the whims of individuals, many of whom are obviously disturbed.

LT Barclay

(2,762 posts)
67. The majority of the public has a deep psychosis. But I still think that putting decisions in a place where an election
Sun Dec 1, 2024, 01:48 AM
Dec 1

can make a difference is far better than hoping some sociopathic jacka$$ finally gets a visit by 4 ghosts.

japple

(10,370 posts)
13. How much will it take for them to feel like they have enough? Why do they need more than what
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 08:24 PM
Nov 29

they had in 2012? Seems like a whole lotta insecurity going on here.

Linda ladeewolf

(459 posts)
41. It's not really about
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 11:48 AM
Nov 30

How much they need. It’s a disease, it’s greed and avarice. They want it all. If each one had all they could get, they’d still want what each of their billionaire friends have, they’d be trying to kill each other or beat each other to get what the other has. This alliance is temporary. When they are done with us, they will start on each other. Just my opinion of course.

Trust_Reality

(1,902 posts)
43. I agree, it is a disease, an obsession.
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 12:40 PM
Nov 30

I remember one of the Koch brothers when asked how much money/wealth he wanted, said "all of it".

I read earlier today an article by a historian who noted that dating back to the Puritans wealth was associated with being good believers.

My late father-in-law (good riddance), a Southern Baptist minister and adulterer, believed wealth was associated with godliness, or something to that effect.

Incidentally, I really hate the statement "It takes all kinds".

JI7

(90,762 posts)
14. Is there any place where they actually pay that low minimum wage ?
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 08:25 PM
Nov 29

that might be the federal number.

But minimum wage actually being offered is higher.

The wealthy certainly need to play higher taxes but people voted for the candidate that have wealthy huge tax cuts while attacking Harris got ignoring the " working class".

BumRushDaShow

(143,547 posts)
15. Here in PA, the state's minimum wage is the same as the federal - $7.25
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 08:29 PM
Nov 29

and every state that borders PA has set a state minimum higher -



Many employers obviously offer more but I expect quite a few still hire at $7.25. IMHO, this is why Philly is continually (ridiculously) dubbed "the poorest big city in America".

JI7

(90,762 posts)
16. I do think they should still raise it
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 08:38 PM
Nov 29

even if people are actually getting paid more.

I can see situations where someone has to take the lower minimum wage job becsuse of things like not having a car or less time flexibility for jobs that pay more.

BumRushDaShow

(143,547 posts)
18. They definitely need to raise it
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 08:46 PM
Nov 29

The last of the phased-in raises to get to $7.25 was in 2007, almost 18 years ago.

LT Barclay

(2,762 posts)
32. To me the problem with that is that the minimum wage used to be starter jobs that young people took to get a start and
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 11:12 PM
Nov 29

then work their way up. I believe that many people are now stuck in those jobs almost permanently. Much of that is tied to corporate greed. They don't want to spend a single minute or single dollar to train a worker. They only want someone who can start on day one. For example, career 2 for me was in the environmental field. I would see dozens of jobs requiring an active HAZWOPER (hazardous waste operations) certification. There are a few problems with this. First the course is only $250 dollars and 1 week long. So a company can't spare that much change to get a worker they need. Second, the HAZWOPR certification was never meant to be what it has become. The original idea was for employees to have 40 hours of training so they would be prepared to safely navigate the particular hazards of their job. So employees are not getting specific training because companies don't want to pay someone to have the expertise and experience to train new workers to avoid injuries on the job.
What a bunch of A$$Holes.

James48

(4,607 posts)
21. So, why hasn't the last four years included a dime in min wage?
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 09:07 PM
Nov 29

I hear people say Dems could have raised the wage- even if it was only a buck, and failed to do anything.

Why has no one raised the wage, even a little?

Politics is the art of the possible. It should have been possible to do SOMETHING

Scrivener7

(53,056 posts)
22. How does Musk earn 248B? What am I missing? Honda's gross profit is about 32B
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 09:44 PM
Nov 29

per year. I assume Tesla's is not that high. And he bought Twitter for 44B, so presumably it's profit is much less than that per year.

So where did Musk's 248B come from?

mnhtnbb

(32,105 posts)
38. No source for the numbers
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 05:33 AM
Nov 30

but "wealth" to me implies net worth, which would be the valuation of all assets, including equity of all stocks, minus liabilities . It's not just earned income.

The Dow Jones Industrial average was at 13,000 this time of year in 2012; yesterday it flirted with closing at 45,000. Timely and prudent investing in the market over the last 12 years has created a lot of very wealthy people, mostly during the tenure of Democratic administrations.

It doesn't change the point that those earning minimum wage are never going to amass the fortunes that these billionaires have.

https://futures.tradingcharts.com/historical/DJ/2012/0/continuous.html

Polybius

(18,137 posts)
46. $323 billion (today)
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 12:51 PM
Nov 30

He owns a huge share of Tesla stock, and it has gone up dramatically in 12 years. Also, you didn't mention SpaceX. It too has been massively profitable. Even the US government relies on them when NASA can't get the job done.

Trust_Reality

(1,902 posts)
48. I think "It takes money to make money" is pretty much how capitalism works.
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 01:01 PM
Nov 30

It is great that with the internet, there are more exceptions these days.

But as the greedy class succeeds in reducing and altering regulations that would limit their profiteering, they -- the greedy class -- win. Because of money in politics and media, few politicians or journalists are willing to speak out against the greedy class.

And, of course, it is the greedy class that scream and yell about the evils of Social Security and other programs they attack as too much socialism (too much cooperation for the common good).

FailureToCommunicate

(14,342 posts)
25. "We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the...
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 09:58 PM
Nov 29

...hands of a few, but we can't have both." -- JUSTICE LOUIS BRANDEIS

GiqueCee

(1,447 posts)
26. Instead of commissioning a yacht...
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 10:07 PM
Nov 29

... so large that a bridge had to be dismantled so it could reach open water, couldn't you have done some real good with a minute fraction of such obscene wealth? No... I'm sure the thought never even crossed your mind, did it, Jeff. And Musk is just a grotesque mutation in the human genome. Few, if any, will mourn his passing.

KPN

(16,158 posts)
27. You know, Bernie was right. We need a revolution.
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 10:09 PM
Nov 29

I’m convinced that normal two party politics is never going to right this. The big question in my mind? Is the Democratic Party going to lead that revolution … or not.

The next couple years will be interesting. Trumpism will likely implode via its own arrogant over-reach. How our party responds and deals with that will say a lot about whether it is ready and committed to lead the overhaul that will be needed to deal with oppressively gross wealth concentration. Or whether the two party system is a principal part of the problem.

That is where I’m at.

LT Barclay

(2,762 posts)
33. Chris Hedges has been saying the same thing. I'm waiting for someone to step into the mantle of leadership, preferably
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 11:15 PM
Nov 29

one who is not currently serving in office. But, I wonder how long they would survive before they had some "accident"?

Tribetime

(6,417 posts)
28. Yet Maga thinks its immigrants stealing their jobs and transgender
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 10:15 PM
Nov 29

Their biggest threats.....We need to pound them on this thru eternity and if we need to scare them more with lies than they're scaring us so be it. F going high screw them to hell. STARTING NOW

RANDYWILDMAN

(2,917 posts)
34. Massive gulf
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 11:28 PM
Nov 29

Let's talk about wealth inequality !!! been saying this my whole life...It's sad but most people could look and see this massive issue...but most people don't want too

JR11

(64 posts)
35. If only people could change for the better
Fri Nov 29, 2024, 11:54 PM
Nov 29

The disparity is further defined by how those working for a "living wage" are simply not able to get ahead. All it takes is an accident or illness and hospital bills, and you're in a rut inside of a rut. Many are working themselves into early graves with multiple jobs just to make a barebone living.

There's a lot to say about equitability, and how it's a myth in today's world.

mopinko

(71,913 posts)
39. end citizens united.
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 07:13 AM
Nov 30

i dont care how much money someone has, until they try to capture OUR govt.
which musk just did.

Falcon101

(16 posts)
40. What about charities
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 08:08 AM
Nov 30

One time in out Country, the rich would create charities and spend money for the common good. Today the rich just give money when it leads to power and more money such as giving to Trump. Why the change in the moral compass?

calimary

(84,504 posts)
44. It'll help them prove their patriotism and sincere love of AND FOR their country.
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 12:43 PM
Nov 30

If ANYBODY can afford to help America to small-D democratic greatness, it’s those three. And they probably wouldn’t even feel the pinch.

Polybius

(18,137 posts)
45. Question about Musk
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 12:48 PM
Nov 30

I've seen many post here saying he's not a good CEO or business man, and stupid. Was this out of anger because his politics stinks? Because turning $2 billion into $323 billion (today) sure seems impressive to me.

TBF

(34,608 posts)
49. Impressive
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 01:05 PM
Nov 30

"Because turning $2 billion into $323 billion (today) sure seems impressive to me."

You do realize that at this level it is just interest compounding on top of interest (which is mostly held in the market - well, whatever he keeps in this country at least. Who knows how much he has stashed in secure overseas accounts).

Is it really so "impressive"?

This is how we have ended up in the situation we're in w/Trump. Folks living in pre-fab homes thinking they are just one lotto win away from being Musk.

To me, impressive would be rethinking how we tax these folks.

Polybius

(18,137 posts)
54. It was far from "just interest"
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 01:12 PM
Nov 30

Tesla and SpaceX went through the roof since 2012. He may become the world's first trillionaire.

druidity33

(6,577 posts)
59. Two words... government contracts.
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 04:47 PM
Nov 30

Two more words... tax rebates.

I'll bet the man pays nothing in taxes or recoups all of it from SpaceX contracts. Not to mention PowerWall batteries.



Polybius

(18,137 posts)
63. You're not wrong
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 10:12 PM
Nov 30

But why doesn't anyone else who had $2 billion in 2012 have $320 billion now like him? Smart business.

TBF

(34,608 posts)
60. Wowee -
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 04:49 PM
Nov 30

now that we're done with our hero worship, maybe we can have a conversation about how we could better allocate these funds.

Polybius

(18,137 posts)
64. I don't worship him
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 10:15 PM
Nov 30

But I do admire some of the things he's done for Tesla and SpaceX. He got right-wingers to give up their gas guzzling SUV's. That's a win for all of us.

TBF

(34,608 posts)
65. Perhaps in NY; here in TX the gas guzzling SUV's
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 11:43 PM
Nov 30

are still loud & proud. We actually own a Tesla - not a bad commuter car and easy to use when you have your own garage to mount the charger.

That's the type of thing EM could do to actually be useful in Washington - use some public funds to make things like electronic vehicles easier for everyone to use.

Polybius

(18,137 posts)
68. I own one too, and don't have a home charger
Sun Dec 8, 2024, 02:46 PM
Sunday

I charge at the local Supercharging station that's like 2 miles from my house. I usually charge every 12-16 days, as I don't drive a lot.

Musk should spend $50 billion of his own money on adding more Superchargers and into charging research. I heard that in the near future you'll just have to back into the stations. No need to even get out and plug anything in. Plus, range is greatly improving.

Hotler

(12,342 posts)
47. 2 words .....
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 12:56 PM
Nov 30

Spending boycott.
74,485,124 dems & libs voted in the last election. As an example; If people cut $25.00 a week from spending (week of Starbucks), multiply by that many voters, times 4-weeks to a month and so on, that's a chunk of change not going into the pockets of the fascist. This can be done safely from home, no chance of being arrested or shot in the street. And you save money.
Votes and consumer dollars are our most powerful tools to fight with. Votes can only be use every 2-4 years. Consumer dollars can be used 24/7-365.
This is easy and doable. it's worth a try.

Trust_Reality

(1,902 posts)
56. I'm with you.
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 01:16 PM
Nov 30

If there was some way to organize the effort, focus on one of FOX's advertisers at a time, for example, it seems it would be most effective.

I'm way to old to figure out how to create a "movement".

Hotler

(12,342 posts)
58. I'm learning too, this is how it starts, two people, then get a third...... start here in Colorado
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 01:43 PM
Nov 30

Colorado had 1,727,866 dem & lib voters.
Consumers (we/us) are going to feel pain anyway, might as well inflict some economic damage and save some money doing so. keep in mind that to offset our lack of spending they will have to spend $25.00 more of their money.
I see a lot of potential wins here.

bif

(24,154 posts)
51. Anything over a billion is obscene.
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 01:05 PM
Nov 30

It's hard to even grasp how much money a billion dollars is.

TBF

(34,608 posts)
53. The way to deal with this is the tax code -
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 01:09 PM
Nov 30

and that's exactly why Musk is sitting at Mar a Lago. He is looking out for himself.

We should be doing the same.

Bluethroughu

(5,869 posts)
55. 2 more words, CORPORATE WELFARE.
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 01:13 PM
Nov 30

This is a socialist country, the working, middle, and lower classes pay taxes so corporations can get more, pay less, and charge more to get more. Endless cycle.

Trust_Reality

(1,902 posts)
57. That doesn't sound like actual socialism to me.
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 01:31 PM
Nov 30

It sound like money in politics, especially "citizens united" which resulted from money in politics. Behold: another
endless cycle. I guess most of us are like hamsters running on a wheel going no place but generating money for the greedy class.

Bluethroughu

(5,869 posts)
66. Corporate welfare, "their people my friend", says Romney
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 11:55 PM
Nov 30

And the not so SCOTUS, neither are correct, but since the corporate capture we have ruling after ruling dismantling the rights of natural people for the legal fictions' benefit.

Evolve Dammit

(18,975 posts)
61. truly obscene. Who the fuck needs that much, and if you have it, why not use it for good instead of evil??
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 05:21 PM
Nov 30

alterfurz

(2,566 posts)
62. 3 words...eat the rich
Sat Nov 30, 2024, 05:43 PM
Nov 30

Probably would only require a couple examples before the rest got the message.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»3 words...