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[mcar]

This message was self-deleted by its author (mcar) on Wed Dec 4, 2024, 03:40 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Clouds Passing]

1. Thank you for posting much needed info! The bushes have brought us to this moment of facist rule

Hypocrites! Every last one of them!

[Deuxcents]

2. Thanks for this reminder..I had forgotten the details

[UpInArms]

3. Aaaahhh ... Silverado savings

The Savings And Loan Scandal -- Neil Bush Stands In Shattered Ruins Of Denver Thrift

Aug 1, 1990

Five years later, Bush stands amid the wreckage of reputations and fortunes from one of the 10 biggest thrift failures in the country, battling efforts to transform him into a symbol of the entire savings-and-loan scandal. He faces administrative charges that he violated banking regulations in the way he handled Silverado's transactions with his business partners. The Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. (FDIC) yesterday said it will decide within the next two months whether to file suit against him and other directors to recover some of the estimated $1 billion cost of liquidating Silverado.

Even if Bush wins his case with the regulators - as he insists he will - the consequences of his Silverado days are still steep: a political embarrassment for President Bush and the Republican Party, a cloud of uncertainty over whatever political future he himself might have had, a year of his life lost to the controversy.

[Greybnk48]

4. How about these scumbags?

"Trump granted clemency to five of his former campaign staff members and political advisers: Paul Manafort, Roger Stone, Michael Flynn, Stephen K. Bannon, and George Papadopoulos."

This is part of a post by another DUer from two days ago that I saved as a reference, but I don't remember who posted it. Apologies to the author.

[tritsofme]

5. Uh...Neil Bush wasn't pardoned?

Don’t particularly care about the Hunter pardon saga, but this just isn’t true.

[Raven123]

8. I'm sure there is a difference.

Had to look it up, but you are correct. Clemency versus Pardon. On the other hand, Bush didn’t have to worry about his successor going on a revenge tour against his son.

[tritsofme]

10. I'm not even sure that is actually true. My recollection is that he faced civil, not criminal, penalties.

Which would not be subject to pardon or commutation.

[Raven123]

11. IMO, Joe is trying to protect him from future prosecution as well.

[tritsofme]

14. Right, my point was that this pardon/clemency of Neil Bush

doesn’t appear to have actually happened.

I agree with Biden’s reasoning in pardoning Hunter, but we should be looking out for misinformation.

[Raven123]

18. Gotcha

[Demsrule86]

12. Yes he was pardoned by Bush 1 for saving and loan fraud.

'But the luckiest thing about this lucky American businessman is that his father and brother were both presidents of the United States and that his father exercised his unlimited constitutional power of clemency to pardon the Lucky American Businessman for all that S&L business way back when. The president’s name was George H.W. Bush. The Lucky American Businessman was his son, Neil, whose brother, George, later became president of the United States himself...The Moral: Shut the fuck up about Hunter Biden, please. The pardon power is—theoretically, anyway—the only untrammeled royal authority granted to the office by the Constitution'.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a63082689/neil-bush-george-hw-bush-presidential-pardon/.

Nice try.

[tritsofme]

13. Nice try at what? Pierce claims he was pardoned, that doesn't appear to be true.

It doesn’t look like Neil Bush was ever criminally charged at the federal level.

He was involved in all sorts of shadiness in the S&L collapse, but only faced civil penalties.

This claim went viral, it looks like Pierce never fact checked it.

[NYC Liberal]

23. He didn't recieve a pardon or a commutation

The DOJ has a list of all of them going back to Nixon

https://www.justice.gov/pardon/commutations-granted-president-george-h-w-bush-1989-1993
https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-george-h-w-bush-1989-1993

[Kid Berwyn]

24. Bush DoJ did not prosecute his son's billion dollar fraud.

Which is nicer than a pardon.

Plus, presidential nepotism forgives other things, like...

Know your BFEE: Neil Bush hangs out with Russian Mafiya Godfather

https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2082945

[tritsofme]

26. No doubt about it, Neil Bush is corrupt as shit. It's just that Pierce's claim about the pardon is untrue.

[Kid Berwyn]

30. True. But Poppy really liked destroying the paper trail.

You know, helps keep the media focused on how great the Bush clan is.

George Bush Takes Charge: The Uses of ‘Counter-Terrorism’

By Christopher Simpson
Covert Action Quarterly 58

A paper trail of declassified documents from the Reagan‑Bush era yields valuable information on how counter‑terrorism provided a powerful mechanism for solidifying Bush's power base and launching a broad range of national security initiatives.

During the Reagan years, George Bush used "crisis management" and "counter‑terrorism" as vehicles for running key parts of the clandestine side of the US government.

Bush proved especially adept at plausible denial. Some measure of his skill in avoiding responsibility can be taken from the fact that even after the Iran‑Contra affair blew the Reagan administration apart, Bush went on to become the "foreign policy president," while CIA Director William Casey, by then conveniently dead, took most of the blame for a number of covert foreign policy debacles that Bush had set in motion.

The trail of National Security Decision Directives (NSDDS) left by the Reagan administration begins to tell the story. True, much remains classified, and still more was never committed to paper in the first place. Even so, the main picture is clear: As vice president, George Bush was at the center of secret wars, political murders, and America's convoluted oil politics in the Middle East.

SNIP...

Reagan and the NSC also used NSDDs to settle conflicts among security agencies over bureaucratic turf and lines of command. It is through that prism that we see the first glimmers of Vice President Bush's role in clandestine operations during the 1980s.

SNIP...

NSDD 159. MANAGEMENT OF U.S. COVERT OPERATIONS, (TOP SECRET/VEIL‑SENSITIVE), JAN. 18,1985

The Reagan administration's commitment to significantly expand covert operations had been clear since before the 1980 election. How such operations were actually to be managed from day to day, however, was considerably less certain. The management problem became particularly knotty owing to legal requirements to notify congressional intelligence oversight committees of covert operations, on the one hand, and the tacitly accepted presidential mandate to deceive those same committees concerning sensitive operations such as the Contra war in Nicaragua, on the other.

The solution attempted in NSDD 159 was to establish a small coordinating committee headed by Vice President George Bush through which all information concerning US covert operations was to be funneled. The order also established a category of top secret information known as Veil, to be used exclusively for managing records pertaining to covert operations.

The system was designed to keep circulation of written records to an absolute minimum while at the same time ensuring that the vice president retained the ability to coordinate US covert operations with the administration's overt diplomacy and propaganda.

Only eight copies of NSDD 159 were created. The existence of the vice president's committee was itself highly classified. The directive became public as a result of the criminal prosecutions of Oliver North, John Poindexter, and others involved in the Iran‑Contra affair, hence the designation "Exhibit A" running up the left side of the document.

CONTINUED...

CovertAction Quarterly no 58 Fall 1996 pp31-40.

[markodochartaigh]

41. William Casey

""We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." - William J. Casey, CIA Director

I'm sure that he would have been able to say many more interesting things if his testimony before Congress in the Iran-Contra affair had not been pre-empted by the surgery which left him unable to speak.

[UpInArms]

38. He was granted clemency

By his father

[tritsofme]

45. That doesn't appear to be true either.

[surfered]

6. Good memory

[onenote]

50. Bad memory. Not true about Neil Bush.

Yet lots of DUers are accepting it as true and repeating it.
At some point, Charles Pierce will have to walk back his claim or his credibility will be very damaged.

[Paladin]

7. A thousand thanks, Charlie Pierce.

You Biden Bashers need to take a good hard look at this.

[Ocelot II]

28. I love Charlie Pierce, but he's wrong. GHW Bush didn't pardon Neil.

Here's a list of all of Bush I's pardons and Neil isn't on it. https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-george-h-w-bush-1989-1993

[Paladin]

44. I'll await Charlie Pierce's response, if that's quite alright with you. (nt)

[calimary]

37. Frankly, I think Biden Bashers need to take a good hard look at their own shortcomings.

[moniss]

9. Excellent historical reference. nt

[Hekate]

15. A knowledge of US History can be so enlightening

Thank you mcar for bringing us the delightful Charles Pierce

[Ocelot II]

29. Except this time Pierce's history is wrong. Bush I didn't pardon Neil.

[Hekate]

32. What did Poppy do?

[Ocelot II]

33. Nothing, apparently.

Neil was an outside director at a failed savings and loan association in the 1990s. Since he did not face criminal charges he didn't need pardoning.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

36. Can you be pardoned for any thing you might have done? That is the kind of Pardon folks like

Clinton and Vindman, and others on Trump's enemies list need.

[markodochartaigh]

39. The Brothers Vindman are national heros

and also targets. President Biden should give them the widest possible pardon.

[PatSeg]

16. So many very short and selective memories

[malaise]

17. Great OP

Rec

[BootinUp]

19. Biden is everyone's favorite punching bag. Nt

[SunSeeker]

20. And Neil commited serious crimes, not trumped up charges by a partisan Special Counsel.

[Liberty Belle]

21. And as for not pardoning before a crony served jail time, remember Rep. Duncan Hunter?

Trump pardoned him before he served a single day in prison.

https://www.eastcountymagazine.org/trump-pardons-former-rep-hunter-campaign-finance-crimes

Hunter was a mouthpiece on right-wing media for Trump, and was never held accountable for diverting massive amounts of campaign funds for personal use such as trips with his mistresses.

[Liberty Belle]

22. 4 presidents have pardoned family members before Biden pardoned his son:

Abraham Lincoln pardoned a cousin of his wife, Mary Todd Lincoln, who supported the Confederacy during the Civil War.

Bill Clinton pardoned his half-brother, Roger Clinton, on drug-related charges in 2001.


George HW Bush had granted clemency to his son Neil Bush, linked to the Silverado Savings and Loan scandal.

Jimmy Carter had pardoned his brother Billy Carter, who was embroiled in financial disputes with Libya.

https://www.newsbytesapp.com/news/world/joe-biden-to-bill-clinton-us-presidents-who-have-pardoned-family-members/story

[tritsofme]

25. They are incorrect for both Carter and Bush.

Neil Bush was never pardoned or granted clemency.

Billy Carter never received a pardon from his brother.

Lots of misinformation flying around.

[Polybius]

35. Please explain the Abraham Lincoln one

Abraham Lincoln pardoned a cousin of his wife, Mary Todd Lincoln, who supported the Confederacy during the Civil War.

Mary Todd supported the Confederacy during the Civil War?

[Ocelot II]

27. This is not correct. GHW Bush didn't pardon Neil.

He's not on the list of Bush I's pardons. https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardons-granted-president-george-h-w-bush-1989-1993

[BootinUp]

31. Pierce needs to clean this up. Nt

[UTUSN]

34. Knr

[onenote]

40. It's getting to be disturbing how often misinformation is being spread on DU

and how such misinformation persists even when the facts are posted.
No, Neil Bush did not receive a pardon or a grant of clemency from GHWBush.
No, Billy Carter did not receive a pardon or a grant of clemency from Jimmy Carter.

https://leadstories.com/hoax-alert/2024/12/fact-check-presidents-jimmy-carter-george-h-w-bush-did-not-pardon-family-members.html#google_vignette

Those are verifiable facts and anyone posting false statements to the contrary should delete them, imo.

[LisaL]

49. But Roger Clinton was pardoned by his brother Bill Clinton.

NT

[Sympthsical]

54. 144 recs

It always kind of amazes me. Google is right there. We have more access to knowledge than any humans in all of history. By orders of magnitude greater.

And humans are still, "Ehhhh, that would take me, like, 20 seconds to check. I'm sure it's fine."

It's funnier still that Esquire published it. Quality publication right there.

[Mblaze]

42. As I recall,

Neil Bush walked away from the S&L wreckage with $45 million.

[ReRe]

43. K&R

Charlie Pierce does have style. I knew everything he was talking about, but when he said "sit yourselves down here by the turf fire.." I knew it was going to be good. So I read it out-loud to my kitty in my aged story-telling voice and we both enjoyed every bit of it. Nope, Joe Biden needn't worry about what all the Repugs are whining about, and he's not. Believe me, he's not.

[tritsofme]

46. Biden shouldn't worry, but Pierce's claim about Neil Bush isn't true.

[LisaL]

48. Bill Clinton pardoned his brother.

So there is a tradition.

[Vogon_Glory]

51. Selective Amnesia. Both the Republicans and the

Lamestream Crporate Media are subject to it.

I wouldn’t say they suffer from it. They seem to actually enjoy their affliction.

[Jose Garcia]

52. Apparently Esquire no longer uses fact checkers:

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a63082689/neil-bush-george-hw-bush-presidential-sons/

[sl8]

53. Esquire retracted the column.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a63082689/neil-bush-george-hw-bush-presidential-sons/

Editor's Note: This column has been removed due to an error. The original article stated incorrectly that President George H. W. Bush gave a presidential pardon to his son, Neil Bush. Esquire regrets the mistake.

[Tactical Peek]

55. Now that entire column has been removed, a correction in its place.

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a63082689/neil-bush-george-hw-bush-presidential-sons/

Editor's Note: This column has been removed due to an error. The original article stated incorrectly that President George H. W. Bush gave a presidential pardon to his son, Neil Bush. Esquire regrets the mistake.

[Devilsun]

56. This is erroneous information please delete.

[Kid Berwyn]

57. Semantics.

George HW Bush Justice Department let Neil Bush and his S&L co-conspirators skate.

Criminal Activity Associated with S&L Failures

Black, William, The Incidence and Cost of Fraud and Insider Abuse, Washington, DC: National Commission on Financial Institution Reform, Recovery and Enforcement, Staff Report No. 13, 1993.

Calavita, Kitty, Pontell, Henry N., and Tillman, Robert H. Big Money Game: Fraud and Politics in the Savings and Loan Crisis, Berkeley, Calif.: University of California Press, 1997.

Ettleson, Sherry and Thomas Hilliard, Crime and Punishment in the S&L Industry: The Bush Administration's Anemic War on S&L Fraud, Washington, DC: Public Citizen's Congress Watch, 1990.

Failed Thrifts: Internal Control Weaknesses Create an Environment Conducive to Fraud, Insider Abuse, and Related Unsafe Practices, Washington, DC: U.S. General Accounting Office, 1989. T-AFMD-90-4.

Gup, Benton, Bank Fraud: Exposing the Hidden Threat to Financial Institutions, Rolling Meadows, IL: Bankers Publishing Co., 1990.

Mayer, Martin, The Greatest-Ever Bank Robbery: The Collapse of the Savings and Loan Industry, New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, 1990.

O'Shea, James, The Daisy Chain: How Borrowed Billions Sank a Texas S&L, New York: Pocket Books, 1991.

Pilzer, Paul Z. and Robert Deitz, Other People's Money: The Inside Story of the S&L Mess, New York: Simon and Schuster, 1989.

Pizzo, Stephen, Fricker, Mary and Paul Muolo, Inside Job: The Looting of America's Savings and Loans, New York: McGraw-Hill Publishing Co., 1989.

The U.S Government's War Against Fraud, Abuse, and Misconduct in Financial Institutions: Winning Some Battles but Losing the War: Twenty-Ninth Report, Washington, DC: U.S. House of Representatives. Committee on Government Operations, Committee Report 101-982, 1990.

Whiteford, Taylor & Preston, Issues Regarding the Role of Fraud and Other Criminal Misconduct in Causing Failures in the Thrift Industry, Washington, DC: National Commission on Financial Institution Reform, Recovery and Enforcement, Staff Report No. 14, 1993.

Why S&L Crooks Have Failed to Pay Millions of Dollars in Court-Ordered Restitution: Nineteen Case Studies, Washington, DC: U.S. House of Representatives. Committee on Banking, Finance and Urban Affairs, Committee Print 102-11, 1992.

"William Black Tackles the Savings and Loan Debacle," in Unsung Heroes: Federal Execucrats Making a Difference, pp. 22-63 by Norma M. Riccucci, Washington, DC, Georgetown University Press, 1995.

Wilmsen, Steven K., Silverado: Neil Bush and the Savings and Loan Scandal, Washington, DC: National Press Books, 1991.

Last Updated: June 12, 2023

Source: https://www.fdic.gov/publications/criminal-activity-associated-sl-failures

[MadameButterfly]

58. You aren't supposed to be able to pardon people involved in a conspiracy

that you are implicated in. Trump shouldn't be able to pardon J6ers.

Pardoning a son who is no danger to anybody is incidental. It's the worst the Republicans can come up with, while their guy is a professional criminal. Come on. Why are there any Dems criticizing Biden on this? As if leaving his son to rot in jail would have gotten any approval by Republicans or prevented any Trump pardons.

I saw Tuberville say it was ok to pardon his son, but Biden shouldn't have lied about it. Are you kidding, anyone supporting Trump is concerned about lying????!!!!!