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[dalton99a]

1. Ted Cruz's sex-change TV ads gave him another term

There was hardly any rebuttal from Colin Allred

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. You're not going to get an honest discussion about trans issues from Helen Lewis.

[Blue_Tires]

16. Exactly

[BannonsLiver]

3. Good luck with that.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

12. As a trans woman I find that incredibly offensive

I'm a woman because that is how I was born - I just haven't had the surgery to correct the accident of birth. and considering my age and the risks involved, I don't know if I will. But I spent 4 decades of depression trying to conform to society's expectations and I don't appreciate a supposed ally defending transphobes and telling me I'm not really who I know in my heart I am.

[boston bean]

17. I get what you are saying. But also women have long history of attempting to shed gender roles.

Many see it as part of their subjugation. This is where the two are at odds. Many don’t want to be forced into any gender role at all.

[Oneironaut]

23. I understand that viewpoint and don't think it conflicts with trans people.

The free ability to shed gender roles and trans people existing are not mutually exclusive.

[boston bean]

34. That is understood. But I think sometimes is looked upon as an attack, when it is not.

[Oneironaut]

37. Sometimes the context it's coming from is transphobic, however, tbh.

If you selected a section of trans people from the population, they would probably be the least likely of almost any other group of people to believe in gender roles, norms, etc. Blaming trans people for upholding gender roles is unfair and completely false.

I think it comes from a misunderstanding of what trans people are actually like. Most of my friends are trans and have a wide diversity of different styles and lifestyles, most of which are unconventional and not normative.

If it wasn’t clear, I agree with completely shedding gender roles. I think they’re ridiculous.

[Charging Triceratops]

39. Gender "roles" are fully ridiculous

As are societal pressures on how each sex is "supposed" to present and act, gender-wise.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. This ain't it, chief.

[Ms. Toad]

47. Wow. First - just a reminder -

Per EarlG, It is against the TOS to advocate against "transgender females" participating in girls sports teams.

And sex is not binary - that is scientific fact, regardless of what you believe to be true about nature separating people into two neat categories.

Guy parts do not make you male, not even in a strict biologic sense. People with XX chromosomes can develop "guy parts." (de la Chapelle syndrome)

[LAS14]

63. Let's hear more directly from trans people.

"transgender females do not belong on girls' sports teams; but transsexual females do."

"I consider myself "gender non-binary," but my guy parts make me a guy no matter what I'm wearing to the dance."

These quotes from you, and Zoey Tur's, following, make me think it would be a good idea to ask/let trans people like you and her and Sarah McBride do more of the talking for us about this issue.

"I don't think trans people should go into the opposite sex shower until they've had the operation. It's just not classy."

[meadowlander]

72. I always find the shower concern hilarious

remembering that as a transman assigned female at birth one of the great horrors of my teenage years was communal locker and shower rooms for gym class.

Not necessarily for the bullying (although I can imagine for trans kids who are "out" as teens that would be a major concern) but because I loathed my own body and was embarrassed to show it in front of anyone. I ended up changing in the toilet stalls whenever I was forced into this situation. Even now at the local swimming pool I change in the disabled shower or the family changing rooms not the gendered ones.

It made me avoid all sports like the plague and schedule all my gym classes at the end of the day so I could go home and shower there.

Isn't the real question why are any kids required to change or shower in front of other people?

I don't know any pre-transition trans people who have the slightest interest in being naked in front of people of the opposite biological sex. And if your concern is non-trans boys faking it to get access to the women's room so they can ogle girls that's like worrying people will cut their feet off to get free birthday cake at a restaurant with free parties for kids under 12 - the social consequences for teenage boys saying they are actually girls in all other areas are so extreme compared to the tiny payoff of voyeurism (noting that the entire internet is awash in pictures of naked girls if that's their inclination). Also if your concern is sexualised "male" gaze in the women's locker room, (a) lesbians exist, so sorry that ship has sailed and (b) trans people retain a range of sexual orientations so even if they are biologically male they may not even be attracted to women in the first place.

If we were actually interested in solving this problem instead of using it as a cudgel to attack trans people, the very simple solution is to offer the option for private gender neutral shower stalls and changing rooms which also benefits cis people who for religious or other personal reasons don't want to change or shower in front of strangers or people who are very concerned about someone of the opposite biological sex seeing them naked.

[Passages]

5. From Lewis?

Choose from the complete list of GLAAD Accountability Profiles:

Helen Lewis
Journalist
Updated: April 21, 2023
—Wrote in opposition to U.K. legislation that would ease the process of changing one’s legal gender by, in part, removing the requirement of a medical diagnosis from two separate doctors. Lewis wrote, “What the government proposes is a radical rewriting of our understanding of identity: now it’s a question of an internal essence—a soul, if you will. Being a woman or a man is now entirely in your head.” Lewis also asked, “In this climate, who would challenge someone with a beard exposing their penis in a women’s changing room?”

—Described the transgender rights movement as “the imperial overreach of a handful of trans activists, in trying to rewrite widely accepted ideas about gender by stealth,” and added that activism “has done nothing to improve the lives of trans people.” In the same piece, Lewis claimed victimhood over being described as a TERF.

—Was removed as a voice actor from the Ubisoft game Watch Dogs: Legion for offensive remarks about gender identity.

—Disparaged former fans of J.K. Rowling who spoke out against her remarks about transgender women: “Fans are discovering that someone they once treated as omniscient, someone they loved with a ferocious, possessive, childish love, is an entirely different person, with different values from their own.” The Mugglenet fan site had noted: “As this fandom enters its third decade, J.K. Rowling has chosen this time to loudly pronounce harmful and disproven beliefs about what it means to be a transgender person… Our stance is firm: Transgender women are women. Transgender men are men. Nonbinary people are nonbinary. Intersex people exist and should not be forced to live in the binary. We stand with Harry Potter fans in these communities, and while we don’t condone the mistreatment JKR has received for airing her opinions about transgender people, we must reject her beliefs.” Lewis wrote in the article: “It is understandable that transgender people feel weary and harassed; their identities and their bodies have been conscripted into a culture war. Many feminists who support Rowling feel the same.” At least 44 transgender people were killed in the U.S. in 2020.
https://glaad.org/gap/helen-lewis/

[NoMoreRepugs]

6. Approximately 1% of the US population identify as transgender (from a google search) - somehow that 1% becomes of vast

importance to many among the 99%. Seriously? To me its disheartening that so many voters can be influenced by something that is NEVER going to touch their lives. Just an old man ranting and mumbling to himself here.......

[yardwork]

9. I agree. It's an example of clever strategy by Republicans.

In NC, Trump ran an ad with video of Harris stating support for providing gender affirming care to prisoners. It's a tiny number of people affected and I thought voters would recognize that. They didn't. Trump's strategy worked.

[bearsfootball516]

31. Ah, that was the "Harris is for they/them" ad. It ran absolutely everywhere in the country for weeks.

You could not watch a football game on Sunday without seeing it two or three times.

[yardwork]

33. It was devastatingly effective.

I'm not sure how she could have refuted it, either.

[LeftInTX]

42. She could have stated how she felt about using

federal dollars. A smart answer would have been "case by case", "medically necessary" etc.

She also could have detailed the CA experience. How much was spent etc?

However, maybe she wanted to play safe and she ducked it.

Also the rushed campaign, may have forced her to "duck". Maybe if she had been running for months, the issue could have been addressed in a sensitive manner. Instead, it was likely deer in the headlights.

[Ms. Toad]

49. Same strategy used in 2004 with same gender marriage.

Both were used to drive conservative, largely evangelical Christians - who, at least at that time were irregular voters - to the polls to enshrine mixed gender marriages in the constitution. While they were there, they were expected to (and largely did) vote for Bush.

1. Choose an issue on which Democrats are not united (or, at a minimum are afraid to speak about)
2. Put constitutional amendments, laws, etc. on the ballot
3. Run ads about the dangers of this issue
4. Democrats will remain silent, or issue the briefest of ineffectual responses
5. Conservative voter are outraged by the issue and go to the polls in numbers higher than average
6. Enthusiastic support for the Democratic candidate among its traditional base (e.g. the LGBTQI community) is less enthusiastic, because we have to hold our nose to vote for someone who is - at a bare minimum - silent about the attacks on our lives. Most of us go, but with far less enthusiasm than the conservatives.
7. The issues pass, and we get conservatives elected as a result, and
8. Democrats blame the people targeted for the issue for not waiting at the back of the bus for their turn at rights.

Why would they abandon a winning strategy?

And, the better question, why is #8 still happening? The premise of this thread is disgusting, as are some of the posts.

[Shambala]

56. I thought voters would recognize that Trump also supported gender affirming care for inmates using taxpayer dollars

But I guess his supporters didn’t hear that in their news bubble.

https://www.advocate.com/election/gender-affirming-care-inmates-trump-harris#rebelltitem3

Why do inmates have access to gender-affirming care? Those Trump ads you keep seeing debunked
Republicans have spent $65 million on attack ads that target 0.6 percent of the population. Here's all the context they're missing.
RYAN ADAMCZESKI
OCTOBER 22 2024 6:00 AM EST


The official policy of the Trump administration provided inmates with gender-affirming care, in compliance with U.S. law. A 2017 manual from Trump's Department of Justice specifically addressed how to best care for trans inmates, stating, "Hormone or other medical treatment may be provided after an individualized assessment of the requested inmate by institution medical staff."

The manual even went on to say that "In the event this treatment changes the inmate’s appearance to the extent a new identification card is needed, the inmate will not be charged for the identification card." It also explicitly said that staff "will not be disciplined" for using inmates' preferred names and pronouns.

When agreeing to "follow the law" in her Fox News interview, Harris was correct in noting that "it’s a law that Donald Trump actually followed" as well.

[moose65]

70. Those ads were relentless

I saw SO many anti-trans ads, it was repulsive. And not a bit of reply from Harris.

That was this year’s “Defund the Police.” Republicans seized it and used it to pound Harris. And she didn’t really respond.

But why is it that Trump can do all kinds of repulsive things and never loses support, while this one ad changed the minds of voters? I don’t get that at all.

[pandr32]

19. Apparently nearly 30% of Gen Z consider themselves LBGTQ.

I remember the 70's even though the standing joke is most don't remember that period--drugs, sex, booze, disco, etc. Sexual experimentation had many claiming gender and sexual activity as fluid. Ditto for the roaring 20s. So does this trend spike every 50 years?
of course, there is no trend for people who are gay or lesbian. They remain constant whether open in society or closeted. Ditto for the rare condition of being inter-sexed or with some feeling they were born the wrong sex and struggle to cope.
I have a nephew and niece who are Gen Z. They are well acquainted with many who are gender fluid or transitioning, including my niece. Soon I will have two nephews--a surprise because she never hinted she felt male. She is 17 and one of several friends transitioning together. We are surprised and concerned, yet supportive. It is 'their' choice.

[Silent Type]

7. In my swing state (still mostly red), the ad where Charlemagne said "Hell no I don't want my tax money going

to treatment in prison" was likely effective. It ran relentlessly.

In my opinion, supporting/protecting marginalized groups is the essence of the Democratic Party, but those shameful ads didn't help attract voters to our side. Disappointing.

[dalton99a]

8. Kark Rove made his career out of turning an opponent's strength into a weakness

It is an important strategy in the GOP playbook

[TommyT139]

48. So Charlemagne is also

So he is also opposed to mental health care, HIV treatment, etc etc...?

Because the reason all prisoners get medically necessary care is because cruel and unusual punishment is unconstitutional.

Trans care - yes, even in prison - falls under that.

[Silent Type]

51. I agree. Voters apparently did not.

[TommyT139]

53. Of course - but this argument wasn't made, either.

[Scipio Africanus]

55. They edited the video to remove the context.

Charlemagne was paraphrasing Trump. He naively failed to realize they could take his words, chop them up and present them as if it was Charlemagne giving his own opinion.

[Initech]

10. That wasn't a problem until 2020.

Then all of a sudden everyone went absolutely apeshit over the very idea. I personally blame the shit corners of the internet, like Infowars and Tucker Carlson for this. They can all go get fucked. We really need a new media system to combat the madness of the internet conspiracy theorists.

[Fullduplexxx]

27. Blame lies where it always does and thatvit with the american voters

[Cirsium]

58. That doesn't work

Elections don't determine who has ultimate power in the country, for one thing. That is decided on Wall Street. If there were anything on the ballot that would change that, it would get extremely broad support.

Informed voting depends upon informed voters, and that is a social issue, not a personal issue. I know a lot of people here will say that they personally made the decision to become informed, so others could too, but that is just a variation on the right wing bootstrap idea. We have seen public education under constant assault, the Land Grant colleges hopelessly corrupted, consolidation of the media into fewer and fewer hands, and the rise of social media with its extremely destructive effects. The average person has little power or control over any of that.

The Republicans have been on a 50 year long crusade to destroy the ability of the public to make informed decisions. The Democratic party leadership has compromised, rolled over, played the "bipartisan" game, or at the very least failed to fight back very effectively.

[Ms. Toad]

52. Don't fool yourself - it was an issue,

But the people aware of it were the ones impacted by it most: transgender individuals.

The prominent news reporting of it is a Republican strategy. It worked so well for them in 2004 (when same gender marriage was the issue on which Democrats were afraid to speak) that they trotted it out again this year. I wrote several posts predicting exactly what happened.

[Initech]

82. The funny thing is the people screaming about trans women in sports...

Couldn't give a flying fuck about women's sports. Bet they've never watched a single second of a WNBA game or women's softball, volleyball, golf, etc. It's just a wedge issue so they can blurt out their hate in the open. I bet they couldn't name one WNBA player.

[hlthe2b]

11. This is a subject so rife with misunderstandings (intentional and less so) that only the most adamant

(and often "factually wrong" ) are left to discuss it. Thus we get the "hot potato" attitude and approach that has angered everyone, no matter their views.

Even in medicine, most are tired of the inability to discuss without inciting misinterpretations and anger. Yet, in the ER, a full understanding of individual biological issues are paramount to avoid toxic administration of drugs to someone who COULD be pregnant. Yet, even asking (sensitively) to ascertain whether or not a pregnancy test must be ordered before certain anesthetic procedures are performed or medications ordered has resulted in angry, sometimes violent responses by those who refuse to allow for an explanation as to the reasoning and thus the nature of this standard policy.

So, in the one setting where sensitivity is most likely to occur, it remains nearly as difficult an issue for discussion as among those whose motivations are far less benign. I HATE that that is the case.

[yardwork]

35. The angry attacks on healthcare providers ramped up during COVID.

Trump and other Republicans politicized a public health issue to the point where half the population now goes apeshit when they're asked to wear a mask. Patients with COVID weee convinced the doctors and nurses were killing them.

I know an ED nurse who switched from being a lifelong Republican to a Democrat because of this. She saw how Trump put herself and her colleagues in danger. She told me that at the height of COVID she was verbally attacked by multiple patients daily.

I'm not surprised that asking a male-seeming patient if they could be pregnant is met with outrage way above any rational response.

[hlthe2b]

41. I had to laugh even though it is not funny. Honestly, I only wish this was news to me.

I truly wish.

ER staff have had things thrown at them, we routinely have to call police on night shifts and even often during the day, yet it is still a damned ER, and masks are required. Yes, I know a lot of hospitals have limited enforcement of this policy, but they are putting oncology patients and other immunocompromised waiting in the ER at f...ing damned risk. But we have had staff injured. It infuriates me. But, the screaming and cursing is the least of it from the general public.

So, no. I did not mention this in the context of my other point because I think this is the background we are dealing with in most cities. Yet, the group we OUGHT to be able to engage with--to talk with sensitivity, caring, and on a medical basis, is often approaching the same level of violent vitriolic response as the anti-science, generally angry at the world, anti-vaxxers now.

Hardly news to me or my colleagues.

[Quiet Em]

14. No.

It's a discussion only for the person with gender dysphoria and their parent/guardian if they are a minor. Nobody else gets a say in it.

[BannonsLiver]

24. You might want to let the republicans know.

[Quiet Em]

25. Don't really care about ignorant Republicans who have no knowledge or understanding of the issue

or have any personal connection to a transgender person. They aren't doctors and they should stay in their own lane.

[BannonsLiver]

28. Yeah, I read that book too.

[Quiet Em]

29. Not sure what you are referring to.

[Scrivener7]

15. Bullshit. Democrats need learn to focus Americans' attention on the things that actually

affect the majority of voters, rather than issues that republiQans have ginned up to terrify Ma and Pa Peoria, who have never crossed paths with a trans person in their lives.

[muriel_volestrangler]

26. You are so right. The Republicans ran with a rapist and convicted felon for president who was awaiting trial

for trying to overthrow democracy, and stealing government secret papers, and people somehow thought that sports competition of a few people per state was a significant issue?

It shows how fucked up American priorities are that this is still a topic of discussion in the media, and by a few idiots like Moulton, that the media is not all about "how the hell has the literal worst president ever got voted back in, when we found out even more reasons he's not fit to hold any office?"

And I'm very disappointed to see this was written by Helen Lewis (British), who ought to know better.

[Scrivener7]

30. It also shows, and I take heat for saying this but it's obvious, that Democrats need

to get a grip with our messaging because it sucks.

[Oneironaut]

18. I'm enjoying the bus tires running us over. /s

But yes. I’m sure they’ll leave you alone when you sacrifice trans peoples’ rights on the MAGA altar.

You know when the statement, “Trans people deserve rights” is a controversial statement you’re willing to concede, you’ve lost your way.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

22. Oof, yeah

I really picked the wrong time to figure out who I really was.

[yardwork]

40. This is the key point.

The Republicans are good at finding an issue and blowing it up against us.

Kamala Harris expresses support for gender-affirming care, yes, even for prisoners who are undocumented. It's a basic human right. It's not hurting anybody to provide this care to a tiny number of people. But the Republicans blow it up and run ads telling people it means that Harris doesn't care about everybody else. Absurd, right? But it's very clever, and it worked.

The Republicans have done this for decades. Jesse Helms won reelection to the senate in 1984 with an ad telling white voters in NC that none of them would get jobs because of affirmative action. Absurd, irrational - it worked.

Tim Walz was smeared as a liar who stole valor because he once said, at a small campaign event years ago, that he "carried a weapon in war" when he was in the national guard. Come on. Compared to the blatant lies Trump tells every day? Trump the draft dodger? It worked. Walz became the liar in the minds of millions.

John Kerry - swiftboated. Al Gore - a liar. And on and on...

[LeftInTX]

44. It's the Willy Horton ploy

[yardwork]

66. Yes. It's always something.

[Kid Berwyn]

21. That ad worked in Detroit.

In the days after the selection, Journalist Stephen Henderson interviewed a Black woman who said the ad kept her, and others in her church, from voting for Harris. It was very effective in reducing support in the Black community for a Black woman running for president.

[LearnedHand]

32. "Trans girls playing in girls' sports" is itself a rightwing dog whistle

Why are we letting them frame the debate? Why are we letting them define the starting point for the "discussion" about trans people. Aren't the numbers actually vanishingly small??

The discussion starts at "How do we ensure trans people enjoy the same full set of rights that cis people enjoy?"

Except for cis women of course ...

[Voltaire2]

36. Transgender rights are a prelude.

They are going after birth control, marriage equality, and divorce. We either stand in solidarity or lose piecemeal, one right after another.

[Bettie]

64. They are going after divorce for women

men will always be able to get one if they want it.

Basically, they want to go back to a time when the only rights protected were of straight, white men (SWM).

They spoke to the people who want to be the exclusive voice in the nation.

They want a version of the United States that never really existed, but they believe that if only they could go back to oppressing everyone who isn't a SWM, everything in their miserable lives would magically improve.

[JI7]

38. This issue hurt more than inflation

[yardwork]

43. And it's a non-issue.

Harris didn't talk about trans rights during her campaign. She was on record supporting trans rights in the past - which is the right and decent stance. But Harris never said that trans rights are more important than anybody else's. That was Republican framing, because it works.

If it wasn't trans rights it would have been something else.

[GusBob]

45. I recall correctly, I think

There was a thread last year or so concerning a transgender woman participating in a high school basketball game.

There were valid viewpoints on both sides. I felt as the issue is one I personally would like to better understand and learn about

The thread was shut down by someone other than the moderators and the folks with whom that person apparently disagreed with, well it was inferred rather strongly that their opinions were not welcomed here, in a political discussion forum.

So yeah, good luck with that.

Tammy Baldwin won despite the issue being used in ads against her constantly in Wisconsin. Perhaps that should be discussed

[Ms. Toad]

59. It is not "inferred rather strongly," it is explicitly against the rules of the forum.

Per EarlG (the site owner, and likely the person who shut down the discussion you were remembering):

For your information, our definition of transphobia includes, but is not limited to: Misgendering, deadnaming, or otherwise refusing to recognize a trans person's gender identity; Arguing that trans people are not "real" men or women; Arguing that trans people should not have the same rights as cis people -- for example, the right to use public restrooms or play sports that match their gender identity; Arguing that there is any scientific basis for discriminating against trans people.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/101312142

[Ms. Toad]

68. You cannot advocate to restrict the rights of trans individuals on a progressive/left political forum,

Any more than you can advocate to restrict the rights of minorities, women, etc. Or advocate for right wing candidates or policies.

If you want to advocate for right wing ideas/candidates, you'll need to find a different political forum in which to do that.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

73. If you don't understand why discrimination is wrong I'm not sure what to say

But I'm sure there are other sites that can provide "valid viewpoints" from both sides.

[DJ Synikus Makisimus]

46. I remember similar shout-outs over racial segregation.

Remember? Back in the day when the Democratic Party was mostly for it, at least in the South (while the Northerners mostly wanted to avoid the issue), at the time when LBJ was carrying on Kennedy's push against it?

I know, let's ask James Carville what he thinks.

[Jk23]

50. When Jimmy Carter sent Amy to a public school in Washington DC

The fact he was willing to walk the walk which you know fairness a lot of both Democrats and Republicans simply were not willing to do at that time.

We are busing for inner cities and poor people but the rich still sent their kids to all white public schools in New Canaan or Greenwich not to mention the private ones.

[DJ Synikus Makisimus]

60. Boston was where the battle against segregation ended.

Remember the riots there, especially in places like Southie? White liberals seemed more than willing to fight against it in the old Confederacy. When it started to come north, the Seth Moultons of the day began crawling out from under rocks, and that was that. The party was verbally opposed to discrimination, but no longer willing to act decisively. The battle moved almost exclusively to the courts, where the Democrats dropped vigilance and focus in appointment (intentionally or not), and ultimately lost. After Boston, the GOP really began to amp up racism in its sloganeering, and that led to Trump. And the Dems couldn't pass the John R. Lewis Voting Rights Advancement Act of 2021, either, even when they controlled both the Senate and the House. So it goes.

And now Seth Moulton is "worried" about his daughters seeing cock in the bathroom? Don't they have stalls with doors that close and latch at that school? Or is the school so ultramodern that they have women's urinals? Or is he worried that they might WANT to look? Gawdforbid that they should be friends, or lovers eventually. "Would't want my daughter marrying one." America is a truly weird place.

[33taw]

54. JK23 What motivated you to join DU?

[Scrivener7]

65. Good question.

[LAS14]

57. I wish we could make Zoey Tur a spokesperson.

Zoey Tur is an eminently commonsensical trans woman. We need a response. I think she should be the Dems spokesperson.

from Wikipedia
Hanna Zoey Tur is an American broadcast reporter and commercial pilot who created Los Angeles News Service with fellow reporter and then-wife Marika Gerrard .

An interview with her.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/11/23/politics/video/smr-house-republican-pushes-capitol-bathrom-bill

Also, I was super impressed with an interview I heard on NPR with Sarah McBride. Get her out on the circuit dealing with this head on. She was, to me, as impressive as Pete Buttigieg. What's with these queer folk?

[ismnotwasm]

62. This topic infuriates me

There are 1.6 million transgender people in the US. Only O.6% of the population. They are both resilient and fragile.

What Trump and MAGA et al did was classic bullying, in the most disgusting, cynical manner.

They put them front and center lied about them, exaggerated any issues they may have, used them and are completely willing to just Let. them. Die. It makes me want to vomit

Science understands that gender is social construct. Biological sex exists of course, and we express that through this social construct. How we express this depends on where and when we are in history

Are boys stronger then girls? Sure. Are trans girls/women stronger than cis women? It depends on what you are measuring.

Thank god I live in Seattle where at least trans people can hopefully find refuge and acceptance. I have trans co-workers. Trans patients. I have trans friends. They just want to live and thrive unimpeded by bigotry.

Part of the Democrats response was fueled by the pitfalls bigots have set up if one voices full-throated support for this community. Cis-people will never understand what’s it’s like to feel so strongly that one is born in the wrong gender, that they are eager and willing to go through what it takes to do something about it. It is bravery personified.

I think people are uncomfortable with the topic, because they haven’t looked deep enough at the people behind the category.

[Asa13]

67. I have never understood the debate.

I've tried hard but I don't get the sex gender divide thing. But I do have trans people in my life that I love dearly and want them to be able to live a happy life and not be used as a scapegoat for bad election messaging and turnout issues.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

74. Democrats shouldn't stand up for human rights, gotcha!

[Oneironaut]

79. Then I think the people you talk to should educate themselves.

[LAS14]

80. "I have never met a single person who thinks individuals born as males should be playing female sports"

Certainly not common. No reason why you should have met such folks. But watch the news. It's a very live issue when it happens. It's not fake news, so the GOP can build ads on it. Get some people like Sarah McBride and Zoey Tur to answer back. I'm very impressed with their wisdom.

[Quiet Em]

81. I believe you have never met a single person who is transgender.

Democrats do not turn and run away from people who are being discriminated against.

[meadowlander]

78. Also, explaining it requires more than 15 seconds of effort/thought and the desire to learn on the part of the person

hearing it. Unfortunately, most people these days aren't willing to invest that much effort into understanding something unfamiliar to them.

Rates for trans-gender identity isn't that far behind rates for gay and lesbian identity. The issue is that a lot fewer trans people are "out".

Your company didn't "force" people to choose pronouns. Everyone in your company has been using pronouns since they were born. At most, your company asked people to identify their pronouns in their email signature and/or when introducing themselves at meetings. If you're cis and have been using "he" or "she" pronouns your entire life, that's not really an onerous ask. It's doesn't take any more time or effort than remembering that "Robert" prefers to be called "Rob" or that "Sally Smith" got married and is now "Sally Thomas". But again it's sad that asking for the same miniscule amount of brain power to remember that "Alex" uses "they" pronouns is seen as "whoa partner! That's asking for a lot and going too far!"

Nobody is advocating for taxpayer funding to "become transgendered". The person was always "transgendered". The question is whether people in prisons (where the state has assumed a duty of care for their physical wellbeing) should have access to health care that support their wellbeing. Going off of hormones when you've been on them for years forces you into reverse puberty which is cruel and unusual punishment. Prisons would not say to diabetics "you can't have insulin because you're a prisoner". They should not deny trans people access to gender affirming care.

Again, the simple answer to this problem is that accommodations should be assessed on a case-by-case basis. But people who want black and white solutions to problems that they're not prepared to invest much thought into aren't happy with that.

[PeaceWave]

75. OP, thank you for having the courage to raise this topic in such a thoughtful manner...

[BootOutTheGoons]

76. Enough is enough!!

This has been going on far too long here, the scapegoating and blaming and attacking trans people, especially post-election

Harris didn't spend every waking moment of her campaign going on about trans issues. That was MFer Trump and MFer Cruz and the goddamned party of hate. When they weren't attacking trans people it was other displays of hatred, such as "Haitians eat pets" Also fucking bullshit but hey, since Haitians aren't icky but trans people are? Blame them

Like they aren't hurting enough right now

For the "But I wanna discuss trans rights" crowd. What? More "debate" about trans athletes? That was how the MFGOP started this shit. First it was "Something needs to be done about trans athletes" next it's openly seeking eradication

But not like genocide is a big deal when it's just a couple million people

The stuff being posted here is not only cruel but honestly I find myself far too often reading posts here and thinking "This sadly sounds like something I could imagine MFMTG saying" That's sad

And you know, maybe people should think of the harm that their words can cause. The ranting and going on about trans people over the last month has chased off at least one member sadly. One that I know I thought rather highly of

Sadly I doubt she's the only one

So no. There is no debating or compromising on trans rights just as there is no compromising on anyone else's human rights

Trans people are people too and the scapegoating and nonsense with "biology" and misgendering and "not real women" and other crap I've seen way too much of really needs to stop