To those who believe they have moral authority regarding the murder of United Health's CEO

[Mr.WeRP]

We live in an evil society.

Our federal government and many states sanction murder through the death penalty and the use of the military. You are part of that society whether you like it or not.

Our society says it is just fine to allow corporations to let people die for the sake of profits.

When the oppressed have been abused enough, a price must be paid and some or all of the oppressed will exact that price from their oppressors. This is what happened when the CEO of United Healthcare was shot dead in the street in broad daylight with bullets marked “Delay”, “Deny”, “Defend”. It is sending a message to those in power that they have overstepped and a price must be paid. I remember not too long ago a candidate for President telling Americans he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue in broad daylight and get away with it. Americans made him the President this past election, despite being convicted of 34 felonies. The way the shooting was done is a referendum, not only against the murder of the most vulnerable by insurance companies, but a reflection on the moral decline of the American populace.

This is no surprise to anyone who has studied history. We are basically reliving a time that lead to the French Revolution.

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way—in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.

[Klarkashton]

1. I wonder if this will give pause to all this heady talk

About this doge shit. Millions of people would be horribly displaced at the pleasure of musk and that other jackass for absolutely nothing but a guarantee of a no questions asked tax break.

[Irish_Dem]

7. People like Musk will just hire a $10 million a year security team.

So we will see the robber barons surrounded by their body guards at all time.

Musk will probably make the US government pay for his security.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

40. He already does

He had the website that followed the whereabouts of his private plane shut down because it posed a perceived security threat.

I'm not in any way saying people with Elon Musk money don't get threatened. Extortion, threats of kidnapping family members or key business associates, robbery, and death by random wack job are realities they deal with and most have some level of security.

[Irish_Dem]

43. Yes but the risk level is going up.

People in general are angry at the corrupt and evil billionaires.

And Musk is talking about doing away with SS and Medicare.
He is also threatening entire federal departments and specific employees.

[NEOBuckeye]

50. Don't mess with people's money.

The anger and vitriol directed at the UHC CEO is likely only the tip of the iceberg of what's boiling beneath the surface, folks.

I'm only surprised that it took this long to really start to well up. I don't think we've really seen anything yet.

IMHO, this is the wrong time for Musk and his ilk to be thinking they can pull off raiding Social Security. All the money on Earth won't protect them from the wrath of a people wronged by such avarice and malice.

[Irish_Dem]

58. Yes people are finally showing righteous anger and are in agreement about it.

American sleep walking zombies seem to have awakened and screaming the same tune.

At long last.

I think it is a good sign. There is life after all.

I don't know if Musk and the other evil billionaires will care about American anger.
These billionaires assume they are immune from such worries.
Climate change, rebellion, pollution, none of it worries them.
They live in their little luxurious and pampered bubbles.

[NEOBuckeye]

71. Their wealth is going to become a trap

Instead of the secure fortress they thought they were creating for themselves.

[Irish_Dem]

90. Yes they will live in golden cages.

Trapped by their enormous greed.

[misanthrope]

72. One can certainly hope

Paraphrased, "I've never wished death on someone, but there are obituaries I have read with pleasure."

[MadameButterfly]

86. I wonder when pundits say the people wont take it

how they think they will stop it. How do you stop a president who thinks he is no longer bound by elections and laws, a malignant narcissist who can't conceive of other people's pain? We don't really expect to storm the White House do we?

Can the wrath of the people at least reach the people who must support Trump to make his crimes happen?
Are we stronger than Putin's Russia and Hitler's Germany? Will we in the end refuse to do what the demagogue demands?

[Evolve Dammit]

63. And he's from South Africa FCS

[Irish_Dem]

66. Yes he is from one of the BRIC countries, a group trying to bring down the US.

I would say they are doing a good job of it so far.

[PedroXimenez]

76. and a lot of "norms" are gone because of Trump

like the "norm" about not killing rich people.

[yaesu]

2. The words "justice for all" hasn't applied to the USA in decades. When that changes we can have a right or wrong

discussion about crime and punishment. In the meantime I do believe the cold class war has turned hot.

[intheflow]

35. The US has never had a justice system "for all."

It's always tilted in favor of the powerful, wealthy, and well-connected class of white men.

[Irish_Dem]

44. Yes but it has never played out in such stark horrific reality.

Some of Trump's serious crimes played out on TV right in front of our eyes.
The insurrection, the theft of classified documents.
The trials with witnesses and evidence on display.

And not only does he get off the hook for all of it.
He scams his way back into the WH.

And assembles a criminal cabal to run the government.

[peregrinus]

46. I don't think it ever has

[LiberalLoner]

3. Well said. I do think the pitchforks are coming out now.

[Irish_Dem]

5. Maybe the French will loan us their old guillotines.

[TheProle]

17. Robespierre was an edgelord too

Of course he was riding high until he wasn't.

Shot himself in the mouth like the deranged punk he was and then got to know Madame la Guillotine up close and personal himself.

Vive la révolution!

[Evolve Dammit]

64. Little WD-40 and good as new?

[Irish_Dem]

68. Yep. French craftsmanship is said to be excellent.

[Irish_Dem]

4. Chickens have come home to roost.

1. American judges have made it clear that there is no rule of law for rich white powerful males.

2. At the same time draconian abusive laws are passed which make it a crime to treat a dying pregnant woman to save her life.

3. Greedy billionaires bribe corrupt politicians which allow the murder, injury, pain, theft, scamming of the American people. It is all legal. The best sociopaths don't break the law, they make it.

4. Soon we will have a country run by a rapist, traitor, career criminal. A mob syndicate is in charge of our country.

5. All the people have left is street justice. A sad commentary on our society but understandable.

[AllyCat]

36. #1 and #5 resonate with me

Street justice. People have learned they cannot trust the judicial system to be impartial. I don’t approve, but completely understand why this is happening and what is driving it.

Revolution may be on its way.

[Irish_Dem]

38. Yes. Even if we do not agree with it, we can understand it.

The system has caused society to push back in the only way it can.

[Lovie777]

6. Murder is not justified.....

Even when persons has kill millions. But, it does feel justified for those that lost people in those millions by the people that killed millions.

[Mr.WeRP]

9. The society you live in (assuming you live in the US) says otherwise

Be it self defense
Be it for profits
Be it for war
Be it for punishment of crimes

It is condoned in this society.

[Irish_Dem]

18. Would killing Hitler be wrong?

75 million people were killed in WWII.
He caused their deaths.

I don't have an answer, I am just asking the question.

Normally I am a big rule of law type person.
But American judges have shown us there is no rule of law for rich white men.
Just for us suckers and losers.

[sarisataka]

25. The old philosophical question on morality.

If you encountered Hitler in 1900 with full accurate knowledge of WW2, would you kill the 11-year-old boy you are facing?

Kill a child or let him live, millions of lives depend on your choice.

[MadameButterfly]

85. yes, killing Hilter would be the right thing to do

How do we know when we've come to that point?

Certainly not before we try everything else.

[Irish_Dem]

89. We are getting to that point.

We have found out that there are no guardrails.
No rule of law.

The entire US government folded like lawn chairs for the criminal cabal now in charge.
All three branches of government will work for mob bosses who will run the country.

[MadameButterfly]

94. Yes. But if we want to go there

understand that violence doesn't reward the good, and the other side is better armed.

[Irish_Dem]

95. We don't know how this will play out.

We have no idea at this point.

The same thing you state was true of our Founding Fathers.
They were up against all odds.

A ragtag US army of plain old farmers.
Against one of the greatest armies of all times, the British.

Our founding fathers risked their lives to fight the good fight.
They knew they faced certain death.
But they persisted anyway and founded the greatest democracy in the history of the world.

So here we are again, at the same crossroad.

[MadameButterfly]

96. Things were similarly desperat during the Civil War

The best generals were Southerners. The South more eager to fight. It went very badly for the North for quite awhile. If it hadn't, the emancipation proclamation wouldn't have happened, so sometimes maybe things happen for reasons we don't understand.

[Irish_Dem]

97. Yes good point. Same thing in WWII.

Japan and German were formidable enemies.
At the beginning of the war, the US didn't have much a military.
Europe was easily invaded by Hitler.
England was the only one willing to fight back.

Japan carried out Pearl Harbor.

Both the Germans and Japanese were fierce fighters.

There was no guarantee the US would win the war.

So the US has survived through sheer determination on a number of occasions.

But this time GOP leaders betrayed us and handed us over to Putin.

Will the US fight back this time?
Or is it over?

I don't know.

[MadameButterfly]

98. I don't like to sound like Trump but this time the enemy is within

and they will control the US military and nukes. Who can fight against that?

So we'll have to win another way. i'm hoping we 50% are too strong and the low info Trump voters will become disillusioned and there aren't enough judges and soldiers willing to do Trump's worst.

Right now the delusions and gullability of the Trump voters is so profound that we'd better do something about it fast, while we control enough media to get the word out.

[Irish_Dem]

99. Yes I know.

While Trump would use the military on Americans and nuke the entire country in a heartbeat if it suited him,
I don't know if the military will go along with it.

When Trump was in the WH the last time, I head a rumor that Pelosi, McConnell, and the Pentagon had
an agreement that the military would go through them if Trump started giving crazy orders.

It usually falls to We The People to revolt against a dictatorship.
And the MAGA cult is strong and still deluded.
So it make take some time for them to learn things the hard way.

[oldmanlynn]

34. Well, normally, I would agree with you

When a society gets to the point where there is no recourse or solution to people getting ripped off or cheated or harmed in a number of different ways then sometimes society takes care of it itself

[uponit7771]

93. Then PCHI CEOs should stop

[ColinC]

8. As I've said many times

Murder is wrong regardless of who does it

[Irish_Dem]

19. But the point is that the US robber barons kill Americans every day and get away with it.

How come it is OK for them to rob, cheat, scam, kill, injure Americans?

But Americans cannot fight back?

I am not disagreeing with your comment.

I am just asking questions.

[ColinC]

26. Well bringing light to the mass murders is certainly worth a lot

[Irish_Dem]

27. It is also now a crime to treat dying women.

So the murder is ongoing.

[ColinC]

45. Yup

[Emile]

10. We know how well the justice system works in America. Should CEO's

of Predatory Capitalistic companies hire 24 hour body guards?

[Irish_Dem]

20. They already have security teams.

I don't know what happened with this CEO's security team.

[sarisataka]

11. If you recall the French Revolution ran out of aristocrats

before the people ran out of their thirst for blood. The guillotine kept falling long after Louis was dead.

Many of the original leaders met the same end as the king they overthrew. It pays to consider what history teaches us, so we do not repeat past mistakes.

[Mr.WeRP]

15. Oh I am aware.

I am not condoning it, just explaining that morality doesn’t apply even if a person thinks it does.

Humans, when pushed to survive, will kill to do it, even if that killing is just a warning to those causing their existential crisis. History tells us it won’t end with a warning, and as you point out, will go well beyond the intended result.

[sinkingfeeling]

12. Sadly misplaced acts of violence will not solve healthcare problems. CEOs do not make all

the decisions. This man was a part of a huge corporation. Are you ready to kill all of it's board of directors, including the two MDs? Or should all of its 440,000 employees be held liable?

Work to eliminate the power of corporations and private providers, but don't support murder.

[Irish_Dem]

21. No, no, no. This cannot be the excuse.

Each person has to decide whether they want a life of wrong doing and evil.

Or making the world a better place.

Or at least be a neutral. Neither good nor bad.

We cannot just talk about people following orders and being part of an evil machine.
So it is OK.

Nuremberg didn't buy that excuse, and I don't either.

[sinkingfeeling]

33. So execution is okay with you because the man didn't defy his board of directors and

shareholders and performed his duties as taught in US business schools? Give me a break.

[steelyboo]

53. He could have quit. He could have protested. Why does fiduciary duty get higher deference than other's lives?

[mike_c]

79. He gleefully killed the most vulnerable people for profit and greed.

He was on his way to pitch UH's brand of death care to investors. It would have been a good day to get richer in the long game.

How many thousands of deaths was he culpable for? How much pain and misery did he and his employees turn their backs on while congratulating themselves all the way to the bank? He was a tapeworm.

[sinkingfeeling]

81. Good to know that DU 'liberals' now espouse murder as a solution

to civil problems. I strongly disagree.

[Mr.WeRP]

87. No one is promoting it as the solution

All solutions have been ignored ir discounted.

What happened is a response to an existential threat. When only the wealthy have medical security, and people are dying simply because they are not billionaires, it is a massive problem for the people. And when all non-violent solutions are blocked, the people will find other solutions to their existential threat. It is not a promotion, simply recognition of reality, human nature, and what will result should nothing change.

[Skittles]

57. I was advised that is a rightwing talking point!

[sinkingfeeling]

62. Oh, I didn't realize that opposing murder was RW. Thanks for

setting me straight. Think I'll just step away from DU insa ity for awhile.

[Skittles]

67. no, that was told to me

right here on DU

[Mr.WeRP]

82. I thought you were done here?

[Silent Type]

13. Sorry, I refuse to become trumpian and support of 2nd Amendment Solutions. Especially in cases like this.

[msongs]

14. maybe we should wait and see who killed him and why? nt

[Irish_Dem]

22. The crime scene evidence tells us why.

The words on the bullets made it clear what the motive was.

We don't know the who yet.

[MustLoveBeagles]

28. What a novel idea 💡

[meadowlander]

16. "We the people" decided on 7 November that we don't really care about the rule of law.

Without the rule of law, we have violence and either anarchy or tyranny.

Unfortunately for the corporate sociopaths who bankrolled this, that cuts both ways.

I don't condone extrajudicial violence but I note the circumstances under which more and more people are going to be driven to it.

We did not create those circumstances.

[Irish_Dem]

24. They thought the rule of law was to protect themselves and punish/control their enemies.

It didn't occur to them that doing away with the rule of law might come back to haunt them.

[Voltaire2]

23. At what point does it become self defense?

These bastards are intentionally accelerating the climate catastrophe. The techlib-fascists are not delusional about the climate problem at all. They apparently are going for the 'sudden population reduction solution', and its nationalist-fascist rationalization of 'but just everyone else's population', with of course a lot of rules about who is in and who is out.

[AllyCat]

42. Well, this wasn't self-defense because UCH will just replace Thompson with

Another wealthy, uncaring equally $hitty white man.

This was cold, calculated murder by someone who likely had reached the end of their rope.

[LizBeth]

29. I mean, they have laws allowing girls and women to bleed out/sepsis and die while in hospitals

refusing to provide medical care. If that is not fuckin sanctioning death.

[CanonRay]

30. I've been wondering if this will break a taboo of sorts

Like when Columbine led to more and more school shootings.

[paleotn]

32. Maybe us minions on the left and right will discover...

we have vastly more in common than what separates us. The reaction to this seems to be universal among us proles.

[R. P. McMurphy]

75. Same here. n/t

[paleotn]

31. Well said.

Sorry, but people can only take so much abuse. Even those who turn the other cheek until both are bright red have a breaking point. They're fooling themselves if they think they don't. Not sure if the shooter reached his. If so, I am surprised it took this long.

[Demobrat]

37. All I have to say to those people is

You are better than me.

It’s what you want to hear, so there it is. Enjoy your moral superiority.

[Duppers]

84. Bravo❗

[dalton99a]

39. Murderous parasites have no empathy and deserve none

[Skittles]

41. so you are literally OK with executions on the street?

W.T.F.

[Emile]

47. Apparently our justice system thinks it's okay.

Remember Kyle Rittenhouse?

[Skittles]

48. sorry, I don't remember US being for that

[Emile]

49. The court justice didn't have any problems with it.

[Skittles]

54. so now WE are gun humpers too?

W T F

[Emile]

61. WTF you are calling us gun humpers?

All I did was point out how our United States Justice system worked out for a guy who fucking murdered two people on a city street.

[Skittles]

69. done here

very tired of this, and disgusted

[Emile]

77. How many times do you have to repeat that?

[Mr.WeRP]

83. They are still posting in this thread despite saying it 3 times now.

[Emile]

88. Not only in this thread, but in others too.

Hilarious 🤣

[Mr.WeRP]

51. Where did I say that?

You are best served not putting words in other people’s mouths.

If you were paying attention, you would note that I already said I do not condone it. I am merely presenting reality to those who are ignoring it.

[Skittles]

55. apparently anyone not comfortable with street executions is exhibiting MORAL AUTHORITY

UGH

[Mr.WeRP]

56. I think many of the same folks here who made excuses for Garland

They best pay attention now.

They have proven their blindness undermines their cause.

[Skittles]

60. not sure how that POS plays into it

done here

[mymomwasright]

52. None of this will change their(the rich) perspective of shitting on the people.

They'll just get more security and blame it on society.

[Mr.WeRP]

59. I'm sure the French aristocrats are laughing at that statement

[customerserviceguy]

65. I don't discount the possiblity

that the words on the casings were designed to make it look like a disgruntled consumer (or the relative of one) wanted the authorities to think that was the reason for the hit.

[Demobrat]

70. I have a friend who works for UHC

He says there’s a contingent insisting that the wife paid for a hit.

There’s only one wife and millions of disgruntled customers, so the odds are with the customers. But you do never know.

[Mr.WeRP]

92. That seems highly unlikely

That said, stranger things have happened

[Meowmee]

73. We don't know what the motive was yet

So it’s speculation at this point. The French revolution was a brutal time. And I do not approve of the murders that happened then. Well, I don’t think what happened then is happening here specifically, I’m talking about comments here etc. I think that in that period the revolutionaries became just as bad as what they were fighting against. Each case and each conflict is different. Throughout history.

[wryter2000]

74. That's fiction n/t

N/t

[usonian]

78. What? You're against asymmetrical murder?

Wilhoit's law. and I'm going to quote it often on DU.

Frank Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”

Reference: https://slate.com/business/2022/06/wilhoits-law-conservatives-frank-wilhoit.html

[Initech]

80. The guy was making $51 million a year and deployed an AI that could replace half his staff.

And he was on his way to an investor meeting to find out how he could squeeze even more money out of us. Greedy AF. And you can't take it with you.

[Mr.WeRP]

91. Deny, Defend, Depose is the new "Let them eat cake."