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moniss

(9,056 posts)
Sat Dec 7, 2024, 09:03 AM Dec 2024

Denial of benefits/coverage and

slow-walking payments has been with us previously but not to the massive high tech manner it is today. One of the strategies employed by insurance companies is to deny coverage for procedures for serious conditions hoping you will die and then they have "saved" all that money. If you appeal they may drag out the appeal decision endlessly while they ask for more documents and then more and more all the while you are hoping you're getting somewhere. Meanwhile the bottom line financial results reported to Wall Street look great because less is being paid out due to the strategy of "you can't make us pay and we hope you die trying".

I have little doubt that a somewhat similar strategy of "you can't make us" is coming for those receiving SSI Disability benefits. I expect the incoming circus of ghouls is going to invoke a strategy of taking a large percentage of those receiving benefits and making them "requalify". They may suspend benefit payments during the "requalify" period but I can assure you that the process, by their design, will not be quick in restarting your benefits. Private insurance carriers have employed strategies like this regarding disability insurance benefits/claims.

I know personally of two people who encountered these scenarios. One of delay and the other of requalify.

The first was a Work Comp case. A young man badly injured a knee while performing duties at his job. It required major reconstructive surgery and at that time the recovery period was very long. The insurance company providing the Work Comp policy to the employer denied the claim. They simply said they had determined the injury wasn't work related. As absurd as that sounds it was not uncommon for companies to do this. The man then had the right to request the company to reconsider. They had 90 days to do so. On the 89th day they dated and postmarked an affirmation of their denial. The young man now had a right to ask for a State administrative review since Work Comp is also state regulated. So the young man filed for his hearing. About 2 weeks later he received a letter from the State indicating that his hearing was scheduled for 18 months in the future. The huge backlog of cases due to insurance company denials was overwhelming the personnel at the State level.

So as hearing day finally approached the young man was hopeful that finally this absurdity could be corrected. It was placing great strain on his young marriage and the lack of ability to work was a huge problem. No unemployment check because that Agency said that it didn't qualify due to "voluntary" separation from the job. A whole other story. But hearing day was coming and hope springs eternal. Until the letter from the State arrived 3 days before indicating that the insurance company had requested a delay in order to obtain further evidence. They were granted the delay and the new hearing was now to be another 12 months into the future. During the 12 months the only "further evidence" the insurance company gathered was sending out an extensive form for the young man to fill out. Several pages about his condition etc. So the first hearing date is held and the insurance company lawyer listens to the doctor for the young man testify and then makes a request for an adjournment and rescheduling so they could "obtain further medical testimony". The State granted the delay but "fast-tracked" the new hearing to now be held in 6 months. The young man was sent to see the insurance company doctor. Years after the first notice of claim.

So the new hearing date came and the lawyers for both sides began and the insurance company lawyer tried to have a person from the employer sworn in to give testimony. The attorney for the young man was a very astute lawyer and he immediately objected and reminded the Administrative appeals panel, consisting of 3 people, that the delay had been granted for "medical" testimony and unless the proposed witness was qualified to speak on medical matters in the case then allowing him as a witness was out of order. The panel agreed. The insurance company doctor was not present and so his report was inadmissible since no cross-examination of a document is possible without the person who wrote the document being present for questioning. So the panel adjourned and said they would forward a decision.

Almost 6 months later the young man received the good news from the State that they had granted his claim. It gave the insurance company 90 days to file an appeal. On the 89th day they dated and postmarked a check to the young man.

So basically 3.5 years went by with no work, the financial strain sent the young man into a spiral and the marriage to the rocks. The size of the check for his wages was just over $11,000.00. The medical bills were modest compared to today. They ripped a human being apart and took over 3 years doing it all over $11,000.00 and about that in medical bills. The rate of increased divorce goes off the scale for medical and disability cases. They know the damage they do. For $11,000.

The second case is more brief in the telling but no less sad. A young woman who had a disability insurance policy developed a debilitating connective tissue disease that rendered her totally disabled. The name of which she told me but it is so long and complex that at least a half dozen letters of the alphabet went on strike for being overworked. Initially for the first few years things went well and her very expensive medications etc. seemed to stabilize her. But "new kids on the block" at the insurance company decided that people receiving long term benefits were likely to be "malingering" and so they began a blanket program of suspending benefits and requiring "requalifying". So this condition the woman had gave her periods of good times when she was stable enough to leave the house for a doctor appointment and bad times when she would be in very bad shape. She had a full day caregiver. Because the "new kids" demanded she show up for appointments on their schedule rather than during her stable times it began to negatively affect the progression of her condition. Despite restarting her benefits the medical condition had now deteriorated and she died several months later.

The insurance companies do these things because they can and because they want to put more money in their pockets. The incoming circus of ghouls for Donald Crumb loves stories like this and it gives them a thrill and a smile to be able to inflict similar damage to people and their lives.

19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Think. Again.

(22,456 posts)
3. Somewhere inside the company...
Sat Dec 7, 2024, 09:19 AM
Dec 2024

....someone, or many someones, happily recognized that his death is saving the company's bottom line that much money.

3825-87867

(1,939 posts)
6. Nah!
Sat Dec 7, 2024, 09:59 AM
Dec 2024

That's some more cash for the investors and the other ilk that feed off the public. And having to pay his family and death benefits and insurance will actually cost some company and therefore , employees, more.

moniss

(9,056 posts)
4. It is important for
Sat Dec 7, 2024, 09:22 AM
Dec 2024

media etc. to realize it is a bridge too far to ask us to care about bad things happening to the ones in charge when they are more than content to deny medical and rehabilitative procedures for children and others and on and on.

 

Think. Again.

(22,456 posts)
2. Thank you for going through the trouble of writing this.
Sat Dec 7, 2024, 09:17 AM
Dec 2024

We need more stories like these out in the public, we need ALL the stories like these to be widely known and discussed everywhere.

3825-87867

(1,939 posts)
5. The corporations making these decisions are NOT on the "front lines."
Sat Dec 7, 2024, 09:55 AM
Dec 2024

When "Joe Public" finds he has no possibility of paying for a life-saving operation or medication for himself or family or will lose his home over restructured fees or is denied SS for himself or parents and can't find a decent paying job, he has nothing to lose.
Somehow, he'll find a way to acquire the means to walk into a SS Office, Hospital, Work Place or other corporate owned establishment and "remove" as many people as possible because he's at wit's end and there's nothing else he can do.
The sad part is, and it's too bad if the purtians around here think this is oh-so-touchy, that those who make the decisions don't give a damn what happens to their underlings regardless and won't ever be the ones or their families to receive Joe's "payback."
Until those in power suffer similarly, nothing will be done by them. And before those here start with the BS that we "need to go high" instead, try being in Joe's position.
It's nice to say what we should do because we're not like that until you become like that because of a situation created by those greedy in power. And in case you may not have noticed (not on DU, of course) but those who think we need to turn the other cheek are probably not in or near Joe's situation. So it's easy for them to come off high and mighty.

Lonestarblue

(13,480 posts)
7. Republicans and their right-wing media are right about people being victims. They're just blaming the wrong people.
Sat Dec 7, 2024, 10:08 AM
Dec 2024

It isn’t minorities and gay people and immigrants who making people victims, it is big corporations that are screwing people every day, and our elected representatives are helping them do it. It’s my opinion that one of the most destructive changes in corporate America came with the decision to grant CEOs enormous salaries AND a bonus solely for increasing profits no matter the harm to employees and consumers. Prior to this change, CEOs made a multiple of average worker pay in the low hundreds. Today’s CEOs make multiples in the many thousands, and corporate and shareholder greed results in predatory capitalism that is impoverishing workers and sending most of the country’s wealth to the top 1% or perhaps even a half percent, giving billionaires enormous power to keep their golden ball spinning.

Lately, a few writers have equated our current predatory capitalism to the Gilded Age and the days of robber barons. We all know the breaking point of that era and FDR was able to create programs for average Americans. Trump and Republicans are finally in a position to eliminate every program created in the 1940s. I hope they show some restraint but have no reason to believe they will.

Farmer-Rick

(12,667 posts)
8. Even Social Security slow walks disability payments.
Sat Dec 7, 2024, 10:23 AM
Dec 2024

My spouse developed terrible back problems that left them unable to work. Their condition just kept getting worse and worse. And every time we would apply for SocSec disability. We were denied. I think they were hoping we would die or just go away.

The states determine the use of our federal tax dollars on SocSec disability. So, that if you applied in California, you would probably get your disability sooner and their boards are probably more ethical.

But God help you if you apply in a red state. Here in TN you are always, always, always denied at least once.

There are lawyers who's only clients are disability applicants here in TN. If you are denied at first, and you later win, which is what happened to my spouse, you get all that back pay retroactive from when you first filed and they denied your claim.

Now federal law caps how much a lawyer is allowed to take from a lump sum payment if they win the case. But even with that cap, lawyers can make a great living just by filing appeals to TN Social Security disability board because they always, always deny everything at first. Thanks Tennessee.

So, with a great lawyer, we got a lump sum payment that covered 6 years I think. It's been awhile and I think there is a cap on how far back they can look to pay you what you are owed.

So, even Social Security has taken up these unethical practices because they allow the states to make the decision.

And in the end, it is our own money. We pay into Social Security and that covers disability too. To get Social Security disability, someone had to pay into it. Either a parent or the disabled person had to have paid into the program to get anything out of it.

And health insurance is the same way. You pay these insurance corporations and CEOs to deny you services that you have already paid for.

The purpose of insurance is to spread the risk. So if I have major surgery, the 25 other people who don't, cover part of that cost. And when I'm healthy, I cover part of those 25 other people's costs.

But somehow health insurance isn't really insurance anymore. It just became a weird little game of corporations skimming off our money, denying claims as if they paid for our health insurance. IT'S OUR OWN MONEY that they are doling out to us.

IronLionZion

(51,269 posts)
10. This is why GOP wants to privatize everything
Sat Dec 7, 2024, 10:37 AM
Dec 2024

so claims can be denied easier. They talk openly about it on the campaign trail. They call it "entitlements" so they can say that you are not entitled to anything.

moniss

(9,056 posts)
13. They also make clear messages in their
Sat Dec 7, 2024, 11:15 AM
Dec 2024

advertising when they use the word "entitlements" they show a black person or Latino.

GiqueCee

(4,259 posts)
11. So, all of this systemic depravity...
Sat Dec 7, 2024, 10:38 AM
Dec 2024

... raises the question: What kind of people even think of inflicting such evil on others, never mind actually doing it, profiting from it, and taking satisfaction and even delight in having done so?
Short answer: Irredeemable sociopaths. And those in government who legalize, enable, and normalize such monstrous and bloodthirsty antisocial behavior invariably have an (R) after their names.

And the sniveling sycophants in the media extoll the virtues of predatory capitalism, and put pictures of the perpetrators on the covers of magazines when they should be on wanted posters.

And the nippleheads with room-temperature IQs lap up the lies, no matter how blatant, and vote for psychopaths like Trump because they "like the way he talks". That is, until they become the victims of his malice.

I am of an advanced age, but I fear I will live to see the inevitably dark and bloody future of America unfold because of the mass psychosis that is customarily justified by the mealy-mouthed rationalization, "Our first responsibility is to our stockholders".

Strap in, Babies, it's gonna get UGLY before it gets better.

moniss

(9,056 posts)
14. Yes indeed and the measures of
Sat Dec 7, 2024, 11:36 AM
Dec 2024

repression are now more high tech and can be more quickly brought to bear. I have tried for years to get people to understand that making your life increasingly tied to tech can have bad consequences. They usually think I mean identity fraud. But I mean that people need to realize that when "numbers" go into your account by way of direct deposit of your paycheck etc. it does not mean you have money. Cash is money. Numbers on a screen or a paper statement from the bank are just words backed by their "promise". If you deposit cash you don't have "money" you now have the promise that your cash bought for you. So what happens when they can't make good on the promise. Supposedly the government is promising to make the promise good. To an extent. People forget the S&L fiasco in Ohio.

People think they have money because they can whip out a plastic card and the ATM gives them cash or they can use the card to get goods at a store or services some place. But if they turn off the card, which they can do in an instant, all you have is a worthless ice-scraper for your car windshield.

So look how quickly and easily millions of people across the country can be tremendously repressed with just a few keystrokes. At least back in the '50's it took them longer to get at you and if you could roll with some cash and get out of town to a friends house you could go couch surfing for awhile. But now with GPS tracking, credit/debit card use tracking along with the ability to shut off financial access quickly it is a much different environment. I used to chuckle, back in the early 2000's about a guy I knew who was about 20 years older than me and kept a wad of cash in the house along with having bank accounts. I stopped chuckling when I really started to see what would happen to me if my cards suddenly didn't work. We've all probably had the feeling, but didn't extrapolate, when we rolled up to the ATM and needed cash in a hurry and the screen says it's out of order. Same result.

infullview

(1,129 posts)
12. According to political science text books
Sat Dec 7, 2024, 11:10 AM
Dec 2024

Violence ensues when the basic needs of more than 40% of the population are not met. Basics include food, water, clothing, sleep and shelter. I would add that medical care that causes crippling poverty is driving us in that direction as well.

moniss

(9,056 posts)
17. It is always the outcome when governments
Sat Dec 7, 2024, 12:01 PM
Dec 2024

don't address the needs of the population. "Consent of the governed" can be willing or attempted to be forced by means of lies and repression. But eventually the lies and repression result in an explosive backlash/uprising. It is human history over and over and over again.

dlk

(13,247 posts)
15. What is abundantly clear is that health care should not be for profit
Sat Dec 7, 2024, 11:56 AM
Dec 2024

Our current system has layers and layers of bureaucratic red tape that directly interferes with quality health care, and ramps up costs into the stratosphere. America is the only country in the entire world where someone can be forced into bankruptcy and have their life completely upended merely by becoming sick. What does that say about our moral character?

It's inhumane and barbaric when we allow greed and avarice destroy American lives on a daily basis.

How civilized are we really?

JMCKUSICK

(6,049 posts)
18. I've had 4 back surgeries on my lumbar region in the last 3
Sat Dec 7, 2024, 12:28 PM
Dec 2024

Years and they were unsuccessful in that I can't bend lift or twist without a lot of pain. I can't stand or sit in same position for any time at all.
I filed for disability 16 months ago and still have not seen a social security Dr or talked to anyone from SS. I started my claim with a lawyer and they claim that COVID cause about 35% of their adjudicators to leave so that's their excuse.
I don't have a support system to go through the expected denials and appeals that should all have happened by now.
I feel like death would be a suitable alternative to the abject poverty I've experienced where buying someone a birthday card is an expense I have to carefully consider.
I'm broken and defeated and this is during a "friendly" administration.
My expenses total about $1000 a month and then there's the interest only payments I'm making on 5k in CC that I used to help get by early on in the process.
Now I have Trump to look forward to and pretty sure they're going to mess with Medicaid and Food stamps.
I've always been kind of a tumbleweed in that I grew up in foster homes so I don't have family that I can ask for help.
I'm crying as I write this because I have no idea how people get through this.

moniss

(9,056 posts)
19. When I took part in advocacy on Work Comp
Sat Dec 7, 2024, 01:11 PM
Dec 2024

issues long ago I was a young man and from a rural life. Vietnam had recently "ended". I saw the system failing at the time through that lens. I had no idea how much other failure there was. When people would come and tell me story after story of how the system had failed at every turn and their situation kept getting worse it was evident to me even more clearly than before how much the whole thing is not for the benefit of the people but is really just for the benefit of some. Through it all it became clear to me that one of the most important functions in my life was to be there to listen to people tell their story, to remember and to tell what I'd been told over and over.

I also found that the difference between human decency and selfishness is being willing to listen or claiming to be too busy.

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