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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA new Gallup poll found that Americans now have the lowest-ever views of the U.S. health system
Eric Feigl-Ding
@DrEricDing
A new Gallup poll found that Americans now have the lowest-ever views of the U.S. health system in the 24 years that Gallup has been doing the poll. Just 28% rate the quality of health coverage as excellent or good.
@UHC @AnthemBCBS ?
Link to tweet
Politics
December 6, 2024
View of U.S. Healthcare Quality Declines to 24-Year Low
Americans' rating of U.S. healthcare coverage is below average; most say the system has major problems
by Megan Brenan
https://news.gallup.com/poll/654044/view-healthcare-quality-declines-year-low.aspx
Can we build a groundswell to end this insanity? I believe we can add Universal Healthcare to our party platform.
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dobleremolque
(1,124 posts)double down on executive security. Business as usual; problem solved. (Oh, their problem solved...not yours ours.)
dalton99a
(94,735 posts)Actually, put them in maximum security
yardwork
(69,466 posts)
Passages
(4,276 posts)bucolic_frolic
(55,437 posts)The pandemic put stress on the health care system. Hollowed out some, rushed newbies quickly into the professions. Experience matters. Then there's the funding issues. And so much competition. ER's were once the province of community hospitals. Today those entities are largely for profit, still have ERs as well as outpatient centers, and there are other competitors in those spaces. Trying to figure out what is covered, wholly or in part, where, when, co-pays and deductibles, limits and exclusions, in and out of network is like reading the US Tax code for fun.
Is anything ever simple? We'd all be better off with a good medical book for home care.
I chatted with an older friend last week, and she is terrified of ever having to go to the hospital. Medical mistakes, COVID, diseases, medication errors. Personally I don't want to be carved up for profit. I'm not liking the choices on offer.
Ocelot II
(130,850 posts)The problem is paying for it as individuals, as well as financing hospitals. We have a very bad health care coverage problem. Excellent medical treatment exists in this country, but if you don't have access to it through insurance or your own wealth you might as well be treating yourself with aspirin and band-aids. There are also parts of the country where even with insurance you can't get treatment for conditions related to being female - because the doctors have been chased off by anti-choice legislatures. Rural communities are hurting for medical care because private equity firms have bought up hospital chains and the small hospitals don't make enough money for them. I'm fortunate to live in a state (MN) that has some of the best medical care available and legal guarantees of reproductive care. A friend recently became extremely ill, and I visited him often and saw the quality of care in one of the major hospitals here - it was first-rate, and Medicare covered almost all of it. That kind of care and payment system should be available everywhere, and to everyone. Other countries can do it; why can't we?
spooky3
(38,726 posts)—there are so many restrictions on Medicare that care is driven by their rules rather than patient needs. For example, a parent had to be shuffled into skilled nursing, then rehab, then … because Medicare covered only X days in skilled nursing, she had to “make progress” to be reimbursed or kicked out, etc.
—trying to get a CNA to assist me at home after knee surgery was a nightmare, even though I was willing to pay whatever it took. (This medically necessary help was not covered by Medicare or private insurance.) The services won’t reserve in advance — it was too short term for them to make a lot of $. Care.com didn’t background check providers at that time.
—you have to have a friend or relative drive you home after many outpatient procedures—can’t use a cab, Uber, etc. if you are single and your friends have lives, work, etc., this is hard to arrange.
Etc., etc., etc.
Ocelot II
(130,850 posts)but the rules about transportation from a facility aren't about Medicare at all, but about the hospital's liability concerns. They don't want to get sued if you get sick on your way home after you're discharged, so they want you under the care and supervision of someone else who will be responsible for you.
spooky3
(38,726 posts)For many people.
Some providers are now offering referrals to “medical limo” services. This may help.
Ocelot II
(130,850 posts)And it would be a problem for me, too, if I were to be hospitalized. If I couldn't get a ride from a friend or family member (a very likely situation) I'd be tempted to tell the hospital bureaucrat that if I can't call an Uber to go home I would just camp out in their lobby indefinitely or sue them for false imprisonment.
spooky3
(38,726 posts)
OldBaldy1701E
(11,299 posts)Even as it is usually out of range for most people to even think about. I was on medical assistance when they found my heart issue and I got the quad bypass. That worked out very well.
Other countries are not as unabashedly greedy as we are. Thence, the imbalance. Some try to be as bad as we are, but they are the students. They will never surpass this nation and its desire to acquire. It has been ingrained into every generation since the MIC discovered mass media works. Once the 'elite' rigged the system so that one is either born into wealth or has to work themselves to death making someone else wealthy, they had created the society we have now. Each person has been programmed to dominate and and every thing they touch, even if it destroys everything around them. They do not compromise. They do not discuss. They WIN! And, like Smaug, they will not part with a single coin!
The imbalances in our society are going to give way soon enough. That CEO murder was just a societal crack in our contrived reality. It won't be the last.
markodochartaigh
(5,545 posts)But the quality varies very widely and I see, and hear about, things today which would never have happened when I first became a registered nurse forty years ago. My sister is a nurse practitioner and her husband a nurse anesthetist and his niece is a registered nurse.
This is all anecdotal from Texas, Florida, and California, but the levels of competence and care seem to have slidden precipitously, especially in the last two decades. I think that it is obvious to most people on the patient care side of the system that the MBA's who see health care as just another way to extract wealth from clients, and who believe that "if you can run a McDonald's, you can run a hospital" are a cancer in the system. But the general low-level management of hospitals seems to have much lower levels of competence than a few decades ago.
Tickle
(4,131 posts)a can of worms and it's not stopping any time soon. Not one of all those conversations has any thing to do with gun control.
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)As if they weren't warned !!
I can see the same in less than a year of Trumps admin
walkingman
(10,983 posts)The reality in the US is that we do not have a healthcare system but rather a health insurance system. No matter how it is spun, health insurance is simply not health care.
Many people advocate for "Medicare for all" which would no doubt provide more access and negotiating prices of drugs would help, but administrative costs would probably soar and like Medicare we would continue the health insurance industry rather than a healthcare system. We would be simply throwing a lot more money at basically the same solution we now have but with possible broader benefits.
A system like the British NHS would be the best solution, but that would mean nationalizing all the hospitals, ambulance services, paramedic services, etc. and negotiating a service contract with the Medical associations to establish a fee for service and service obligations for any doctor that wanted to participate!
That is dead on arrival and nothing more than wishful thinking.
I cannot see a solution, considering our political and capitalistic environment. When profit is the motive we are left with very few choices.
Passages
(4,276 posts)When you see polls like this, it tells you the votes are out there despite the opposition, who will indeed flood it with money.
walkingman
(10,983 posts)in the last election it was not even mentioned as an issue, that I remember?
70 years ago, Truman pushed for Universal Healthcare but the AMA capitalized on the nation’s paranoia over the threat of Communism and, despite Truman’s support, attacked the bill as “socialized medicine.”
With the present day "anti-government" attitudes by the majority of voters I have no faith it will happen. It seems we have bought into the "preditory" capitalism model - lock, stock, and barrel.
Passages
(4,276 posts)trying in a very real way may show many young voters a side of gov. that may devastate their spirit for a long time.
Trump 2.0, I still am stunned by the election and have great fear for the next 4 years.
Let's win back big in 2026, as best we can.
Aristus
(72,318 posts)Especially for a nation that has been poisoned on a diet of “socialized medicine” propaganda.
The British follow a plan known as the Beveridge model of health care, in which the government owns the hospitals and clinics, and the doctors, nurses, and allied health workers are government employees. There is still a private system of health care, but of course, patients have to pay a lot more for it.
What the US needs is Germany’s Bismarck model of care, in which medical practices are privately owned, but the government pays the bills, instead of the patient.
Both systems levy a tax for the citizen, but the tax-payers outlay in countries that use either system is almost always less than what patients pay in premiums here in the US.
Plus, national health insurance systems keep costs down, because, unlike with private, for-profit insurance companies, national systems don’t need a heavy, cumbersome, expensive bureaucracy to determine who gets care and who doesn’t when everyone gets care.
walkingman
(10,983 posts)I am sure it will not be in my lifetime. I try not to be cynical but the reality, imo, is that our government is controlled by corporate America on both sides of the aisle.
Another big problem in most of America is lack of access. Unless you live in a major urban area the access to Doctors, Specialists, and Hospitals is usually long distances and appointments availability can be months which does not lead to good outcomes for serious illness.
We have several models from around the world to use and Germany seems like a good one.
In most other countries, health insurance is not tied to employment. Instead, these countries typically have universal health care systems or government-provided health insurance. Here are a few examples:
Canada: Health care is publicly funded and administered on a provincial basis, ensuring that all residents have access to necessary medical services without direct charges at the point of care.
United Kingdom: The National Health Service (NHS) provides comprehensive health care that is free at the point of use for residents.
Germany: Health insurance is mandatory, and it is provided through a mix of statutory health insurance (public) and private health insurance.
Japan: Health insurance is mandatory for all residents, with options for public health insurance and private insurance.
Australia: The government provides universal health care through Medicare, which covers a range of medical services.
These systems ensure that individuals maintain their health coverage regardless of their employment status, which can provide greater security and stability compared to the U.S. model.
Aristus
(72,318 posts)A lot of these countries, especially Canada and the Scandinavian nations, pay for medical students to attend school, the result being that they graduate as MD’s without no student debt of any kind.
In the U.S., MD’s are often on the hook for up to a quarter of a million dollars in student debt. So they go into specialty care, like cardiology or gastroenterology, where they can charge for expensive procedures, thereby being able to pay off their debts quicker. This tends to leave a deficit of primary care providers.
In return for medical students in the above countries having school paid for, they are usually obligated to serve in primary care at a clinic of the government’s choosing for a specific period of time.
As a result, Canada, for example, has plenty of primary care providers, but not enough specialty care providers. So they often come to the US for specialty care. This is often what prompts right-wingers to sneer. “See? Canadians are coming here for medical care! How great can their system be?”
As usual with these chuzzlewits, they’re ignorant of the fact that they’re here for specialist care, and that their provincial health insurance plan pays for it.
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)Passages
(4,276 posts)M$M doesn't touch this subject nor discuss the lobbying involved. Just think how much more powerful the groundswell would be if they did.
So it will be up to our politicians to communicate the message. The public already hates the correct enemy.
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)... understand how tariffs work or get the time span for change unreasonable.
Passages
(4,276 posts)We could talk forever about what they ignored about Trump.
HereForTheParty
(915 posts)In theory, we already have it through the ACA. But the ACA still lands a lot of people in overpriced, under-performing private plans. The OP shows how satisfied people are.
SheltieLover
(81,245 posts)
Passages
(4,276 posts) SheltieLover
(81,245 posts)I met a woman a few days ago with United Healthcare. She has an $8,000 deductible and, after that is met, co-pays are $60-70 depending upon the type of provider. WTH?????
spooky3
(38,726 posts)SheltieLover
(81,245 posts)I do not have "Advantage," I have normal Meidicare.
spooky3
(38,726 posts)Rehab and other care, you soon learn the problems with Medicare and the incentives (or lack of them) they provide to medical folks.
Emile
(42,657 posts)can get it on the party platform.
Passages
(4,276 posts)will find it easy to be on board. If a politician truly believes he owes his constituents a fight for UH, he won't take the insurance industry's money.
ck4829
(37,962 posts)
Cirsium
(3,990 posts)There may be a grand realignment of the parties soon, as occurred in the past - in the 1850's, 1910's for example. That grand realignment has already happened with the electorate. County by county, across the nation, the higher the average income, the better Harris did; the lower the average income, the better Trump did. That is a stunning reversal. It was the other way around for 100 years. Something has to give.
The more Democrats wooed the upper middle class professionals, the more they alienated blue collar folks. That opened the door for right wing populism, as historically has always been the case.
Back in 2008 I was amazed at the support in farm country for Obama, in the fields, in the packing houses, in the processing facilities, on the loading docks. Why was that? Obama promised to go after the banks and to save the home owners, and he promised to give people access to decent healthcare. Those things did not happen, and the resentment and frustration has been percolating ever since. The upper 20% has done well, yes, but too many people have been left behind. Wonky talk about policy, or scolding voters for being stupid or whatever - which happens right here every hour - is just salt in the wound. The stock market has done well, the home values in the upscale neighborhoods have increased. More salt in the wound.
The overwhelming sentiment in 2008 was a desperate desire that someone would shake things up, go after the fat cats, and give the working people a fair shake. Obama promised to do that. It was only after those promised were broken that people turned to MAGA. I am not talking about Musk and the billionaires, not talking about the right wing nutjobs and white supremacists, the "militia" brown shirts. Those don't represent enough people to win elections. The Republicans needed a lot of people who thought "what have we got to lose?" in order to win. Things had to be really bad for people to think "what have I got to lose?" Things are really bad. Housing, healthcare, transportation, food, utilities are all more and more difficult for people to afford.
The Democratic party has become the party of the upper 20%, by the upper 20%, for upper 20%. That described the Republican party a generation ago. Meanwhile, blue collar workers have drifted to the Republicans out of desperation, because there is nowhere else to go. Many Democrats cannot accept that, because they do not understand the suffering and resentment of the bottom half of the population, do not see how tone deaf the Democratic party messaging is, and do not see how compromised and conservative the party has become in all areas except a couple of "culture war" issues. Worse, Democrats right here every day mock and ridicule the blue collar people and dismiss their suffering. On the "culture war" issues the right wing has defined the terms of the debate and controls the messaging.
On top of all of that the party leadership has allowed the right wingers to get almost complete over the national political discussion - social media, cable, streaming. I was startled to see when I searched for "news" in Roku's "app store" that there were a dozen or more right wing channels, including Charlie Kirk, Steve Brannon, et al, all advertised as "fair" and "honest" news. Then we have the dozens of religious channels on cable and satellite, many of which are thinly disguised right wing propaganda outlets, along with the 3 or 4 far right alternatives to Fox. Then we have Sinclair broadcasting monopolizing local TV news, and the thousands of right wing AM radio stations.
Where is there any messaging to counter all of that? Well, there is MSNBC, where half of the guests or more are always Republicans. Free Speech TV? Progress Radio? Social media strongly favors right wing content, so we are drowned out there. Yet we mock voters for being poorly informed and brainwashed? Of course they are.
But the Democrats insist on ignoring all off that and going after the mythical suburban swing voter. Senator Schumer: “For every blue-collar Democrat we lose in western Pennsylvania, we will pick up two moderate Republicans in the suburbs in Philadelphia, and you can repeat that in Ohio and Illinois and Wisconsin.”
The Democratic Party’s fetishization of the suburban voter has myriad roots. These are desirable voters, in theory, because they are more likely to vote in midterms than more traditional Democratic constituencies like the young, the poor, and people of color; they’re also more likely to be substantial donors. And for Democratic centrists, middle-of-the-road Republicans are also ideal voters since they are unlikely to demand large government programs.
The Democrats have pursued suburban Republican voters since long before 2016, to little avail. “Democrats have dreamed for years of peeling away the rings around major cities, separating suburban voters who favor conservative tax and economic policies from a Republican Party that also champions harder-right positions on abortion, guns and gay rights,” the Times reported. “So far, that effort has gained Democrats few seats.” The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee reportedly found that in the 2014 and 2016 elections, suburban voters were “inching away from Republicans, but too slowly to flip many seats.”
The Democrats’ Risky Pursuit of Suburban Republicans
Celerity
(54,666 posts)https://www.statnews.com/2024/02/05/democrat-weaken-medicare-drug-price-negotiation/
All 4 are in the moderate/centrist New Democrat Coalition, and Nickel and Gottheimer are also in the conservative Blue Dog Coalition.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/5539/text?s=1&r=88
the Maintaining Investments in New Innovation (MINI) Act
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/5547
and the Ensuring Pathways to Innovative Cures (EPIC) Act,
https://www.congress.gov/bill/118th-congress/house-bill/7174/cosponsors?s=7&r=1
would delay or block the price reduction apparatus for many other drugs.
https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/don-davis/industries?cid=N00049636&cycle=2024
https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/josh-gottheimer/industries?cid=N00036944&cycle=2024
https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/wiley-nickel/pacs?cid=N00049133&cycle=2024
https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/scott-peters/industries?cid=N00033591&cycle=2024
Arazi
(8,887 posts)It’s renewed the moribund conversation about M4A, universal healthcare, the public option - all of it.
Dems need to be out front on this stat.
uponit7771
(93,532 posts)... learned then we'll see a change in the next couple of months pushing this very point from the DNC vs allowing the GQP to get the first jump and due to Anchor Bias having to work 4 times as hard getting the wrong teaching out of peoples minds
Arazi
(8,887 posts)Pay them to be out advocating for the Dem plan.
I think Bernie or AOC might be too polarizing and resurrect old antipathies to universal healthcare as they’re too closely tied to “socialist medicine”.
But Dems must seize the initiative on this conversation
DFW
(60,317 posts)Last edited Sun Dec 8, 2024, 01:18 PM - Edit history (1)
Did they expect to receive a triple A rating from those who they have bankrupted, threatened to bankrupt, or will bankrupt? When families either lose members altogether, or else are forced to watch members die slowly due to being denied care, does anyone really expect them to be viewed favorably by an adoring public?
I travel a lot here in Europe, and despite the wishful thinkers, the reality is that each country here has its own system of health care. Ironically, in my experience, the country that offers the fewest complaints about its system of health care is the otherwise-bureaucratically paralyzed France. The Germans say that they have ten bureaucrats for every one they need, and the French say they have ten bureaucrats for every one in Germany. In Sweden, I was told "man måste vara nästan död för att komma i sjukhuset," or "you gotta be almost dead to get into the hospital." I have often told my own story about how I managed to talk my way into a German cardiology practice, and thus saved my own life. Fortunately, once you ARE insured here, then the coverage is usually honored. Because my wife had no mandated health insurance from ages 60-65, I paid for her health insurance out of my own pocket, between €550 and €600 a month. When she got an "always fatal" rare form of cancer at age 64, that insurance DID pick up the bill, which could have ruined me if we hadn't gotten the insurance. It was optional, not mandated. Without it, I would have lost either her or our house eight years ago.
Please consider making your post an OP on its own.
I realize we're all mostly singing to the choir here, but I do hope we can impress our lawmakers to be bold and your story conveys the urgency very well.
Thank you.
Lonestarblue
(13,524 posts)They need to focus on the reality of millions of workers who do not have health insurance through their employers. It isn’t just insurance companies that are ripping off consumers. Many employers classify workers as contractors and thus avoid paying any benefits. Walmart used to be notorious for limiting many workers to 30 hours per week to avoid paying any benefits. I don’t know if that is still their policy.
While most large employers (over 1,000 employees) provide some form of health insurance, the premiums have been rising steadily, no doubt to increase corporate profits and often workers with families go without because they don’t earn enough to cover the premiums and living expenses.
Another related issue that needs to be addressed is how private equity is taking over hospitals and medical practices and raising prices significantly,. Closures of many hospitals, especially in rural areas, hascalso meant a decline healthcare access. This issue affects many people. Democrats need to get on top of it now.
Passages
(4,276 posts)They use so many angles it's hard to remember them all.
dalton99a
(94,735 posts)
LearnedHand
(5,533 posts)
ananda
(35,293 posts)It's going to get worse!
Silent Type
(12,412 posts)before recent events, 53% preferred a health system based on private insurance rather the run by the government.
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- A 57% majority of U.S. adults believe that the federal government should ensure all Americans have healthcare coverage. Yet nearly as many, 53%, prefer that the U.S. healthcare system be based on private insurance rather than run by the government. These findings are in line with recent attitudes about the government’s involvement in the healthcare system, which have been relatively steady since 2015.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/468401/majority-say-gov-ensure-healthcare.aspx
That was January 2023, maybe it's changed.
Personally, I think Congress should be sequestered in the Capitol until they come out with a plan before the mid-term primaries. If it's not good enough, vote them all out. Make em eat Spam and bread, sleep on cots, no alcohol or drugs, etc.
Passages
(4,276 posts)Do not let them down any longer, do much better and we will win back many voters in the process.
LearnedHand
(5,533 posts)The results don't mean much unless they show how they asked the questions. For example, if they asked "Do you prefer an insurance system where everyone has access to healthcare" might get VERY different results.
AverageOldGuy
(4,004 posts)It’s the system they operate in we hate. And the docs will tell u in a heartbeat this is not why they went to med school.
Passages
(4,276 posts)who make their case for despising the current system.
Old Crank
(7,161 posts)the Administrator of Medicare gets around $200,000. Insurance execs get $10+ million.
there are about a dozen of them sucking up your healthcare dollars. Not to mention obscene profits based on your misery.
markodochartaigh
(5,545 posts)for which I worked as a nurse was spending one third of every dollar that it brought in on administration. This was at a time when they classified all registered nurses as management so they could pay us straight time for any hours worked over 80 in two weeks. Also the first hour over our shift they paid us nothing.
The Affordable Care Act capped administration expenses at 20%, but I have heard that they have ways around that now.
The US does not have a health care system. The US has a profit making system which produces as much profit as possible while producing as little health care as possible as a byproduct.
Turbineguy
(40,132 posts)republianmushroom
(22,440 posts)Ripleymaxlady
(2 posts)We need to fix the system like set up Universal Healthcare and set up UBI. People are angry at corporations, oligarchs and corrupt government that allow billionaires get away with making more money. Disgusting. I am member of UHC and I had no idea about UHC’s situation until that guy was shot and dead. People say there are several lawsuits against UHC and makes me wonder if there are lawsuits against other health insurances. I’m too late to change health insurance and have to wait until next year or maybe no more insurance because of idiot trump and republicans.
B.See
(8,604 posts)You can still switch from your current Medicare advantage plan to another, or even to regular Medicare, with or without a drug plan.
This MA open enrollment period is from January 1 to March 31.
And welcome to DU.
RockRaven
(19,558 posts)to do absolutely nothing about it at best, and probably make it much much worse.
Great fuckin' job, American voters. Way to identify the issues which are impacting your quality of life!
Persondem
(2,101 posts)..... vote for. If you keep voting for people who do nothing about healthcare and you get the same crappy, profit driven system we've always had. Fix gerrymandering!!!!!
alarimer
(17,146 posts)Health insurance companies finance both sides. There are almost no candidates who are not tainted by their money.